Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on October 11, 2004, 03:56:08 PM
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Forgive me if this is a repost, as over these past 5 days I have been slaying fish.
This could be the final blow for Kerry:
Up to 62 television stations owned or managed by the Sinclair Broadcasting Group - many of them in swing states - will show a documentary highly critical of Senator John Kerry's antiwar activities 30 years ago within the next two weeks, Sinclair officials said yesterday.
Called "Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal," the documentary features Vietnam veterans who say their Vietnamese captors used Mr. Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony, in which he recounted stories of American atrocities, prolonging their torture and betraying and demoralizing them. Similar claims were made by prisoners of war in a commercial that ran during the summer from an anti-Kerry veterans group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/11/politics/campaign/11film.html?ei=5006&en=a672757b8863ace3&ex=1098158400&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=
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I doubt it. The dems will ignore it and the gop just use it to work up a frenzy. That leaves the undecided voters and I believe there are enough stories already about Kerry's service in Viet Nam.
I expect that the people on the margins are waiting to determine which candidate will have the most affect on their lives.
This isn't topical... and neither is Bush's guard service.
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seen it..agree..Im still kinda shocked it hasnt showed in polling yet.
He called every vetran coming from Vietnam baby killers...
How could anyone with any morals follow this person.
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Oh let's not bring morality into it.
Neither candidate bears close scrutiny.
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A better one would be a recent report I saw that some group did a study that showed Kerrys math doesnt add up with all the things hes promising and will add over 1 trillion more to the deficit.
When questioned about this he stated that if that were to occure he would cut funding on things like his much touted National health care plan.
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Funny the Dems are going to the FCC to try and block the show but they have no problem with MM's show getting ready to be aired.
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Funny the Dems are going to the FCC to try and block the show but they have no problem with MM's show getting ready to be aired.
Source?
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Originally posted by Sandman
I doubt it. The dems will ignore it and the gop just use it to work up a frenzy. That leaves the undecided voters and I believe there are enough stories already about Kerry's service in Viet Nam.
Hell, all this stuff is a waste of time. There ARE no undecided voters.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135086,00.html
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Hell, all this stuff is a waste of time. There ARE no undecided voters.
As close as the election was in 2000, and as close as multiple polls are showing this election, 100/200 swing voters might be enough! :eek:
Dumb and dumber....decisions decisions....
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I think this Sinclair story is going to become a pretty huge deal.
Lots of outraged folks out there because of it.
This was the same buncha guys that banned Koppel's reading of the war dead episode on its stations because it was "political".
Now they demand that their local stations (25% of the TVs in the US) air an extended swift boat ad a few days before the election?
It's an outrageous and completely over the top abuse of the media in an election.
I think honestly that the media's role in a democracy is going to be becoming under extreme scrutiny. More than just the right's calling all mainstream (meaning anything but Fox) media biased to the left.
It's quite the opposite. And the mainstream media is fast becoming a joke in it's pandering to its corporate stewards. In going to outrageous lengths in trying to find something "balanced" and "fair" to say about things where no balance can possibly be found. To in effect, create balance in the most damning of stories.
Democracy in the US is fast becoming a sham. If the media isn't an example now, the lawsuits in Novemember sure will be.
The way I see it, a Bush victory would bring certain doom to the dying dream of authentic democracy whereas a Kerry victory would bring continued uncertainty.
Uhm... yeah that's what I think. :)
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Originally posted by Mighty1
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135086,00.html
...not that Sandy didn't trust you...;)
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Nash,
The liberal media turned on Dukakis in '88. When that happens,(as it appears its shaping up to be in this case) the chances of winning an election become snowballish in hell.
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"It's hard to take an offer seriously from a group that is hellbent on doing anything to help elect President Bush even if that means violating basic journalism standards," said Chad Clanton, a Kerry spokesman.
Paging Dan Rather.......... Paging Dan Rather..........
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lol, "liberal" media... You're funny.... Kinda dumb, but funny.
And you're comparing apples to oranges. '88 has nothing to do with a Bush cronie/owner of a broadcasting company to force all his stations to broadcast an extended swiftboat ad days before an election.
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It's just not fair.
No one should be allowed to promote and show some documentary just to influence an election.
Well, it'd be ok to promote and show Farenheit 911. That'd be OK. After all, it's not really a documentary.
But certainly not fair to show something called "Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal".
:) Gotta love this stuff.
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Who is forcing TV stations to pre-empt their regular prime-time schedule with F9/11?
Damn... if some liberal who happened to own a boat-load of TV stations made all their stations put F9/11 on during prime-time, days before the election, it'd be equally as outrageous.
Are you saying that this is happening also?
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It is wrong, and I doubt they will be allowed to show it
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Whew!..... jesus... I thought fer a second I was losing my mind.
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CBS should be forced by the FCC to show it several times to balance the damage they attempted to do with the forged Bush documents. Speaking of which, what's this about them releasing more info on this scandal but not until after the election?
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Up to 62 television stations owned or managed by the Sinclair Broadcasting Group
So, let me get this straight... Sinclair is forcing himself to show this on the stations rightfully under his control? That's an outrage?
Sorry, don't get it.
It's just like Soros putting 20 billion out with the sole purpose of defeating Bush. Soros is using a multi-media approach that he controls by virture of money. Sinclair is using a single-media approach that he controls by virtue of money.
Also, I won't be "outraged" if some stations are "forced" to accept money for airtime and the buyer decides to show F/911.. of course, even MM doesn't pretend that F/911 is a "documentary".
Nor would it outrage me "if some liberal who happened to own a boat-load of TV stations made all their stations put F9/11 on during prime-time, days before the election". In fact, I've sort of been expecting that.
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CBS has created an independant investigation on its own self regarding the memos.
FOX's list of BS stories would fill the grand canyon, but you'll never see them going to the lengths that CBS has in trying to ammend the situation. Not in a million years.
On top of that, CBS has spiked several perfectly legitimate stories since the scandal.... cuz they're scared.
You won't see FOX do that either.
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Originally posted by Toad
So, let me get this straight... Sinclair is forcing himself to show this on the stations rightfully under his control? That's an outrage?
Yer damned straight it's an outrage.
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Nash, No other national network has done what CBS just did. They get no pass.
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LOL, but it's NOT an "outrage" for Soros to use his incredible assets to defeat George Bush, no matter the expense?
You can't see it's really the same thing? Try to think of Sinclair as a 527 buying media time.......... just like Soros does.
Maybe that will clear it up for you.
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Liz, I'm all for the lengths CBS is going to in trying to figure out what happened, in admitting it's culpability, and in ammending its processes.
You don't see FOX going to the same lengths. I mean, they've done completely fabricated stories... and all that happens is that it dissapears from their website after a sufficient amount of people start saying "wtf?"
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Originally posted by Toad
LOL, but it's NOT an "outrage" for Soros to use his incredible assets to defeat George Bush, no matter the expense?
You can't see it's really the same thing? Try to think of Sinclair as a 527 buying media time.......... just like Soros does.
Maybe that will clear it up for you.
Toad, it dissapoints me to see the lengths you sometimes go to in trying to defend the so completely absurd.
Soros doesn't force anyone to do anything. Soros doesn't have a significant control over the media. Soros is far from alone in contributing money to his respective party.
This is so different.
There's a reason why the FCC exists. The airwaves aren't some free-for-all playground for the whims of partisans.
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Show me one example, Nash. I don't read their site much, but I haven't heard nor seen that. Re: CBS-If you think the way they reacted to, much less how they handled the story itself, then you ARE losing your mind.
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FOX never posted false informations nor unbacked assertions...
FOX is the most unbiased and objective news service existing
Rupert Murdoch is my god and it's feked late I'm pretty sure I've posted something stupid tonight I will regret tomorrow ...
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Originally posted by Nash
There's a reason why the FCC exists. The airwaves aren't some free-for-all playground for the whims of partisans.
Hmm... Powell's record seems to contradict this.
Ever heard of ClearChannel?
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According to Fox News, following the 1st debate, Kerry told supporters:
"Didn't my nails and cuticles look great? What a good debate!" The Massachusetts Senator then allegedly added: "It's about the Supreme Court. Women should like me! I do manicures," and "I'm metrosexual--he's a cowboy."
This is so lame....
How many "WMD discovered in Iraq!" stories has everyone been subjected to?
It's constant with these guys.
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eghh.... ClearChannel...
It's fast becoming.... chilling.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
...not that Sandy didn't trust you...;)
That link doesn't back his claim... not that you read it.
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Come on, Nash. Is that the best you can do?
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Nash is dead on right and it is too obvious to be believed. I sure don't see a morally tenable position that would back this move by Sinclair.
Now if he were to put it in theaters, or even on pay-per-view I would say OKee Dokeee. He would then be on the same playing field as Moore.
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How Martlet of you...
"Is that the best you've got?"
Is fabricating the words of a Presidential contender out of thin air, then reporting them as if they were really said, the best I've got?
What are ya lookin' for?
What if CBS reported that Bush was recently bragging about screwing a goat?
You'd have a totally different reaction to it.
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I read that when they posted it, went Huh? and read what happened the next day. They did not intentionally try to decieve anyone, like Rather and CBS did. You do not see that distinction?
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Like I keep saying. they are ALL biased
source Center for Media and Public affairs (http://www.cmpa.com/)
Press Release--September 9, 2004
Networks Praise Kerry, Fox News Buries Him
Study finds election news tilts both ways
WASHINGTON, DC- The broadcast TV networks and weekly news magazines favor John Kerry over George W. Bush, according to a new study released by the Center for Media and Public Affairs (CMPA). But the study also finds that Fox News Channel was far more negative towards Kerry than Bush.
These results come from the 2004 Election NewsWatch project, conducted by CMPA, an affiliate of George Mason University , and in cooperation with Media Tenor.
This is the sixth ElectionWatch report of Campaign 2004. This report covers the period of June 1 through September 2 on the ABC, CBS and NBC nightly newscasts, as well as Time and Newsweek. We also examine "Special Report with Brit Hume” on Fox News Channel from August 1 through September 2.
Major Findings:
• Evaluations of John Kerry were positive by a two-to-one margin, while evaluations of George W. Bush were over 60 percent negative
• Among non-partisan sources, Kerry's evaluations were almost three-to-one positive; Bush's were over two-to-one negative.
• Among the networks, the gap between the candidates was largest on NBC; the coverage was most balanced on ABC.
• Kerry's proportion of good press declined in August, but he still fared far better than Bush until the GOP convention.
• Bush got better than Kerry only during the GOP convention, which also was the only time he received a majority of positive evaluations.
• Based on CMPA's previous studies of primary and general election coverage, Kerry has gotten the best press on network news of any presidential nominee since we began tracking election news in 1988.
• The coverage has focused more on the candidates' policies and personal characteristics than on the campaign horse race.
The Fox News Difference
• Fox News Channel was about as negative towards Bush as the broadcast networks, but Kerry's evaluations were negative by a five-to-one margin. • There was little difference in the evaluations of party- and campaign-based partisan sources, but Bush fared over four times as well as Kerry among non-partisan sources.
Examples
Ms. Ann Knuth (voter): NBC (7/30/04)
“I like what John Kerry's saying. I like the positive note that he is giving.”
NBC reporter David Gregory: NBC (7/30/04)
Today, Mr. Bush begins an unusually aggressive month of campaigning. With his approval rating below 50 percent and polls showing widespread concern about the direction of the country, aides admit the president cannot wait any longer to outline why he deserves another term.
Roy Hoffmann (RET.), Rear Admiral , U.S. Navy : Fox News (8/20/04)
[Kerry's war biography “Tour of Duty”]…was politically a diatribe, had many inaccuracies, gross exaggerations and some outright slanderous lies.
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You think those bozos at FOX actually believed that Kerry would say something like that?
They wouldn't fact check it because, hell, it's was just so plausible....?
"They didn't intentionally try to decieve anyone".... Whatever.
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Nash, would you have believed those quotes?
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And just to be clear. Fox is biased, all of them are biased, but using pretty obvious fake documents, and not even having them verified with provnance, and then stonewalling for a week is not biased, it is far, far worse.
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Absolutely not. It was absurd.
Are you suggesting that this was a comedy peice innocently mislabeled as front page news?
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Originally posted by Nash
There's a reason why the FCC exists. The airwaves aren't some free-for-all playground for the whims of partisans.
because its a documentory and not a political add. Odds are the FCC will do nothing to stop it.
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I am saying it was not meant to be displayed, posted or reported. It was inhouse jokes, accidentaly posted, not a production that took weeks to do.
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mmmkay.... You obviously see it differently than me.
But you asked for an example, and I gave you one.
If you're going to try and tell me that FOX is anywhere near CBS in terms of journalistic integrity, I'm... well, we're going to disagree again.
I think CBS has in fact become a joke not for it's perceived bias towards the left, but in its evolving bias towards the right. It's happening right now with multiple sources of journalism which were once considered beyond reproach.
So-called "mainstream media" is crumbling under the weight of its corporate control.
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Nash, the development of a news story for a program like 60 minutes takes weeks, months, sometimes years. If you assume the mantle of in-depth accurate reporting that 60 minutes does, you also assume the responsability to make certain of the validity of your facts, the provenance and accuracy of your documents, and the accuracy of the charges. What Rather and CBS did is criminal, and, in fact, they are being investigated for the story.
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Gosh... Flashback to the summer or what?
All of a sudden it's all about memogate.
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Hmm yanno I just noticed something.
something very interesting.
I smell fear.
Positively REEKs of it :D
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"Memogate" has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with jounalistic integrity. CBS has none, zero zilch at this point, while Fox is just your run of the mill biased news source.
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From me? About the swiftboat ad?
It's not fear...
It's dread.
And once again a Kunakistan Liberal Junky seems to be one of the mere few here who is willing to point this bullchit out.
Your democracy is taking a harsh turn for the worse... and it's like nobody even notices.
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Of course, one problem you "outraged" guys have comparing this to Moore's polemic is that there are actual POWS willing to testify about how the NV used Kerry's statements in dealing with said POWS. In short, there are victims willing to testify.
Sinclair's move is an example of how the extremely rich use their power to influence the rest of us. Soros and Sinclair are the same thing, just wearing different candidate buttons. Both are using their wealth to achieve their personal political goals.
As I said, I'm not outraged. I look on this as American politics as usual. I fully expected and still expect to see F/911 on TV before the election. Even if it's HBO or Showtime or something. It's got a run time of 122 minutes. Perfect. Soros needs only buy 2-3 hour block of airtime. And there's not a thing anyone could do about it; it'd be perfectly legal. His money allows him "significant control over media".
Sinclair isn't forcing anyone either......... he controls those stations. They work for him. If your boss tells you to "get the Findley report out by Friday" is he forcing you?
I doubt the FCC will get involved. I don't think they would have any legal grounds. Cripes, they let all those attack ads run; why would they stop victim accounts of how the NV used Kerry's words against POWS?
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Welp, it's Turkey Day here, and I'm off to go eat some.
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nash, the last liberal standing.
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f9/11 is going to be on pay for view
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"i'm reporting for dooty" john heinz-kerry
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personal note: john heinz-kerry should be tried as a traitor for giving aid and comfort to the enemy during the vietnam war.
Ho Che Min used the heinz-kerry lies he told congress to keep the north viet people fighting,thus prolonging the war and causing the deaths of many more people on both sides.
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Originally posted by john9001
nash, the last liberal standing.
He is unmovable ain't he? Even in the face of overwhelming reason. Too bad for Kerry Nash can't vote. Well, they'd probably let him vote in Seattle.
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Injured, angry, determined, Swiftees unite to fight Kerry (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041011-123955-3725r.htm)
(http://images.washtimes.com/photos/web/20041011-120448-5161.jpg)
Bud Day, 79, a major who spent six years in the horrific "Hanoi Hilton" as John McCain's cellmate, noted: "Kerry betrayed us by telling the people we were committing atrocities. A man who does that is not fit to lead. It's impossible to let this man masquerade as a war hero and someone who has leadership. To imagine this guy who betrayed us becoming president and him being the leader of our armed forces is just unthinkable."
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After the year long parade of Bush bashers on 60 mins, its kind of hard to feel sympothy for the other side on this one.
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Hey Nash,
Frontline tomorrow 9:00 pm, "the choice 2004" a two-hour dual biography.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/
cheers...
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I think it is funny that the people most worked up over the proposed airing of this swift boat ad cum documentary are not even capable of voting here...
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So an American citizen excersized his rights as an American citizen. Now his words are used by an enemy and what? We make the point that a good American would have what .. shut up? Not in my America!
I guess John Lennon was a enemy agent too... all that "give Peace a Chance" nonsense.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
seen it..agree..Im still kinda shocked it hasnt showed in polling yet.
He called every vetran coming from Vietnam baby killers...
How could anyone with any morals follow this person.
Kerry is a tool. Oh btw, that would make Lurch a baby-killer as well. WTFG Kerry!
Karaya
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Originally posted by midnight Target
So an American citizen excersized his rights as an American citizen. Now his words are used by an enemy and what? We make the point that a good American would have what .. shut up? Not in my America!
I guess John Lennon was a enemy agent too... all that "give Peace a Chance" nonsense.
:rolleyes:
Even Kerry Himself said he "Went too far" with what he did after he got back from the war
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I guess John Lennon was a enemy agent too...
:rolleyes:
nope, just a commie
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Is it me, or does it seem Nash is getting a little panicky?
Btw, Fatboy is releasing Fhype911 on ppv the night before the election.
Cry me a river.
:cool:
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Thanks Eagler for the link
Bud Day is a hero.
I give him a lot more credit then a career politician.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
So an American citizen excersized his rights as an American citizen.
You're talking about Sinclair, correct?
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hehe Toad....
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A "right" makes it right?
Is that your standard, Toad?
Sure - I could argue the same as you - up, down, sideways, to the moon and back. It's a rather easy argument to make.
But I disagree with you...
It took someone sticking up a bank for the first time before there had to be made a law against sticking up banks. Same with rape. And there was nothing on the books about cavemen stealing eachother's dinosaur meat until the meat-theives got the snot kicked out of them.
As society evolves, there will always continue to be ways to exploit new loopholes.
(I'm not even sure that there's a loophole here - we'll see soon).
But your argument is... it's just amoral. Yeah, it's plainly partisan, that's for sure, but it's worse to me....
You and your ilk, by concocting what amounts to technical defences of something that is so plainly harmful to a system which has guided your country for the last 250 years, are complicit in doing so much damage to your democracy that it will almost be difficult to feel sorry for you when you wake up in 20 years not knowing how such a thing could have happened but being powerless to change something that will be, by then, too far gone.
This aint fight on a BBS type stuff.
As to the comments about me being "scared and panicky", Kerry is going to win. K? Get over it.
Oh, and I can't vote. Just in case you felt the need to tell me that for the 8 millionth time.
However, your democracy is under fire, and Kerry's win is not going to change that. High time some of you woke up.
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Originally posted by Nash
CBS has created an independant investigation on its own self regarding the memos.
Yeah, independent.....:rolleyes:
How can anyone independently investigate themselves when they appoint the investigators? That's like John Gotti Jr. appointing the prosecuting DA.
"Let's see, we put you on the payroll, but we expect you to be objective..."
That won't wash in a laundromat.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Nash
You and your ilk, by concocting what amounts to technical defences of something that is so plainly harmful to a system which has guided your country for the last 250 years, are complicit in doing so much damage to your democracy that it will almost be difficult to feel sorry for when you wake up in 20 years not knowing how such a thing could have happened but being powerless to change something that will be, by then, too far gone.
All that run-on paragraph shows me is that you really have no understanding of our Constitution.
You guys are always nattering about our "free speech". It's always apparent you don't really understand the principle as granted in our Constitution. Always, and this time is no exception.
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Originally posted by Nash
As society evolves,
Cite me one example of how the nature of man has really changed over the past 1,000 years.
The past 90 years have been the most violent and deadly in the short history of mankind....
We need Kerry like Britain needed Chamberlain.
My regards,
Widewing
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>>How can anyone independently investigate themselves when they appoint the investigators? That's like John Gotti Jr. appointing the prosecuting DA.
<<
I guess the same way companies hire ouside auditors to go over their financial records. They want fresh unbiased eyes. You're assuming CBS doesn't (want an objective view), and its just that - an assumption.
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Well... There are many many many examples where speech isn't free.
Kerry can't walk into a church and say "vote for me!" - one out of thousands of examples of the limits on it. You can't yell fire in a theater and you can't say bomb in an airport.
Don't act as if it's some free for all.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>How can anyone independently investigate themselves when they appoint the investigators? That's like John Gotti Jr. appointing the prosecuting DA.
<<
I guess the same way companies hire ouside auditors to go over their financial records. They want fresh unbiased eyes. You're assuming CBS doesn't (want an objective view), and its just that - an assumption.
They hire independent auditors because new Federal regulations and most corporate bylaws require independent auditors to protect shareholders.
CBS News has a reputation for "creating news" (remember the exploding pickup truck fabrication?). If they had the same standards in their financial reporting, the feds would be doing the audit.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Nash
And there was nothing on the books about cavemen stealing eachother's dinosaur meat until the meat-theives got the snot kicked out of them.
Pssst
::Whispers:: Dinosaurs were gone already before cavemen showed up on the scene
shhhh dont tell anyone
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Originally posted by Nash
As to the comments about me being "scared and panicky", Kerry is going to win. K? Get over it.
My my my your so exited.
Might I suggest a nice dose of Klonopin and a drink of water to wash it down with:D
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Heh, I learned tonight that it was a meteor (landing in Mexico?) that caused alla them to die. I always thought it was the ice age.
So okay... Cavemen fighting over crispy dinosaur remains.
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BTW you cant vote LMAO
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Yeah I'm excited... I'm an excitable guy. Sue me. :)
And like, you go ahead and continue to try and not pay too close attention to things. They may bum you out.
Instead, throw pre-fabricated grade four rhetoric at me and tell me I can't vote, and breath easy in a job well done.
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Originally posted by Nash
Heh, I learned tonight that it was a meteor (landing in Mexico?) that caused alla them to die. I always thought it was the ice age.
So okay... Cavemen fighting over crispy dinosaur remains.
thats on of several theories yes.
Least thats the most popular one these days
Had the Benifit of living downstairs from a Paleantologist years ago. We became quite friendly.
Facinating person really.
Had alot of different interests and had a pretty in depth knowedge of alot of things including WWII
Kinda surprised I havent run into him here
I remember a few years ago there was one going around where they thought they might have actually farted themselves to death.
the idea was that all that gas built up in the atmosphere and evenually killed em all off
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Originally posted by Nash
Yeah I'm excited... I'm an excitable guy. Sue me. :)
And like, you go ahead and continue to try and not pay too close attention to things. They may bum you out.
Instead, throw pre-fabricated grade four rhetoric at me and tell me I can't vote, and breath easy in a job well done.
Relax kid Im just hav'n some fun with ya.
dont take it too seriously
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A methane gas ozone kinda thing?
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yeah yeah yeah. :)
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Originally posted by Widewing
They hire independent auditors because new Federal regulations and most corporate bylaws require independent auditors to protect shareholders.
CBS News has a reputation for "creating news" (remember the exploding pickup truck fabrication?). If they had the same standards in their financial reporting, the feds would be doing the audit.
My regards,
Widewing
You might want to do a fact check. The exploding truck was a Dateline NBC "exclusive", not CBS. But feel free to rewrite history how you like to fit your arguement.
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Originally posted by Nash
A methane gas ozone kinda thing?
if memory serves correct I beleive the idea was they basically gassed themselves.
so much methane built up in the atmosphere that the air basically became unbreathable.
Its an unlikely theory but I remember it was floating around
A more likely theory is the meteor or a rapidly spreading disease or possibly a combination of the two
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Geeze...
And to think that before thanksgiving dinner I thought cavemen were all busy dodging restless dinosaurs until a glacier rolled over them.
I forget the details, but the folks describing the meteor seemed pretty convinced of it.
However, based on your new information, I like the idea of dinosaurs choking on their own farts much better.
I'm going with that.
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Gives a whole new meaning to "silent but deadly".
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Originally posted by Nash
I think this Sinclair story is going to become a pretty huge deal.
Lots of outraged folks out there because of it.
This was the same buncha guys that banned Koppel's reading of the war dead episode on its stations because it was "political".
Now they demand that their local stations (25% of the TVs in the US) air an extended swift boat ad a few days before the election?
It's an outrageous and completely over the top abuse of the media in an election.
I think honestly that the media's role in a democracy is going to be becoming under extreme scrutiny. More than just the right's calling all mainstream (meaning anything but Fox) media biased to the left.
It's quite the opposite. And the mainstream media is fast becoming a joke in it's pandering to its corporate stewards. In going to outrageous lengths in trying to find something "balanced" and "fair" to say about things where no balance can possibly be found. To in effect, create balance in the most damning of stories.
Democracy in the US is fast becoming a sham. If the media isn't an example now, the lawsuits in Novemember sure will be.
The way I see it, a Bush victory would bring certain doom to the dying dream of authentic democracy whereas a Kerry victory would bring continued uncertainty.
Uhm... yeah that's what I think. :)
Getting into the thread late....I'd actually be changing the subject with the post I was gonna make so I'll just start a new thread.
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Originally posted by rpm
You might want to do a fact check. The exploding truck was a Dateline NBC "exclusive", not CBS. But feel free to rewrite history how you like to fit your arguement.
You are correct, my error.
But, let's not think that CBS doesn't fabricate stories:
5/10/99: CBS' 60 Minutes Apologizes for False Report on U.S. Customs' Memo...
10/3/04: And an Internet flurry about a "CBS Evening News" story last week on the prospects of a military draft showed how quickly critics can mobilize.
A Philadelphia woman who expressed worry for her two grown sons was interviewed for a story about the possibility of reinstating a military draft. Ratherbiased.com (motto: "Watching CBS News so you don't have to") found evidence that the woman was active in an anti-draft organization dominated by Democrats.
1980: In 1980, Rather and CBS were hauled into court when a California doctor named Carl Galloway claimed that a Rather report on 60 Minutes wrongfully implicated him in an insurance fraud sceme. CBS was eventually forced to retract the implication and make a formal apology. Their source, who named Galloway, admitted he lied once confronted.
There are other examples, if you wish to take the time to dig them up.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Nash
Well... There are many many many examples where speech isn't free.
Kerry can't walk into a church and say "vote for me!" - one out of thousands of examples of the limits on it. You can't yell fire in a theater and you can't say bomb in an airport.
Don't act as if it's some free for all.
But he did just that this past weekend with Sharpten and Jackson.
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He said "vote for me" or anything like that? Source?
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this is freeking hillarious...
media is media... be it TV radio or movies. moore "forced" his distribbutors to release his phony documentary a month early to rental status and he "forced" the cable channels to run it early.
The liberals canadians here claim that 9/11 doesn't actually lie but people in the movie (and the narrator moore do actually lie on occassion)... moore mostly lets others lie for him or butchers what they say to make it sound different than it actually was..
He and his media cronies push this film like cheap smack. and hope that the lies will stick enough to sway the election... moore has stated this as his goal plenty of times.... in radio.... stern lies constantly on a daily basis about Bush... his show is one big anti Bush add.
Now.... a media owner who doesn't tow the liberal line is airing a "documentary" (one that the participants freely give their uncut opinions and statements of fact on) that is anti kerrie.... it shows who he really was and is not in the least untruthful.... yet...
the liberals here and in the media want it banned? Who is the book burner here?
If it is old news then people will see it as such and not hold it against kerrie.... If the young kerrie was a hero for his acts then people will see it.
If is is all a lie then eventually someone will prove it .... like the cbs memo or f/911 eh?
it's all fun and games to the liberals until it is their ox being gored.
my opinion? they are being hoisted on their own petard and it is funny as hell.
lazs
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Let's see he went to another state to go to a black church with 2 black Democrat ex-presidential candidates just to say "Hi".:rolleyes:
Source? I saw it on CNN.
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nash... calm down.. kerrie may even win the election, it's close.
It looks like what you are saying here tho is that the election is too important to run any media that is anti kerrie or puts him in a bad light.... that it is too important for kerrie to win to allow any media that might take votes from him.
you would justify any media that is anti Bush and might take votes away from him as bbeing the end justifies the means. Where is the outrage at moore and stern if this is not true? I mean... the swifties haven't even aired yet... there is no proof that anything in the documentary is untruthful in the least...
f/911 and stern on the other hand are proven propoganda with stated goals and provable falseness. yet there is no outrage from you.
lazs
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I dont know why, but reading this thread i had the vision of the meatgrinder scene in The Wall - the movie.
If any of you want to see how medias can control a society, just study Berlusconi's Italy.
Very interesting and educative.
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You all can't possibly think that free broadcast TV is the same or under the same set of regulations as pay-per-view or cable?
Sinclair is breaking the law unless he grants equal time in kind.
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equal time!?
It's a documentary about Kerry so what? We see crap about Bush all the time so what's the difference?
Because it may tell the truth and make Kerry look bad. Boo freaking Hoo!
Hell MM could have put F/911 on normal tv but he wants it to run uncut AND he wants a lot of money for it.
Sorry but it only seems fair that the right has a chance to show Kerry as a whole and not just the bits and pieces the Demos want you to see.
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No, MT, that's just YOUR opinion.
The FCC would have to rule on whether it breaks election law, IIRC.
I'm sure the Dems will be hitting the courts on this as fast as they did after the polls closed in Florida last time.
The basic problem for the Dems, as I see it, is that if you are showing actual interviews with POWS who are essentially testifying as to what happened to them in relation to Kerry's post war words and actions it really is a documentary, unlike F911.
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Originally posted by Nash
Yer damned straight it's an outrage.
Not being two-faced are we?
A Canadian Ideologue telling US citizens how it should be....gotta love it.
Ya know....a guy like Sandman can say his piece and while I'll strongly disagree with him in most cases, I still respect his opinion because he's an American.....you however, are among the ranks of those spoken about by Kerry where he would check with you before making policy for the US....no wonder you're in love with the guy with the hair.
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From CNN Money:
Calls to Sinclair were not immediately returned, but the broadcaster posted a statement on its Web site welcoming comments regarding, "the upcoming special news event featuring the topic of Americans held as prisoners of war in Vietnam."
"The program has not been videotaped and the exact format of this unscripted event has not been finalized," the company's statement said. "Characterizations regarding the content are premature and are based on ill-informed sources."
Sinclair also said in its statement that Sen. Kerry has been invited to participate in the broadcast, and urged people to contact his Washington, D.C., campaign headquarters to urge him to appear.
I think that's going to be another problem in getting the FCC to intervene. They're offering Kerry airtime and so far he's turned it down.
It's still no different than Soros though; rich guys using their money to spread their political views.
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the DNC has filed suit to stop Sinclair.
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The DNC never has been big on free speech, except for their own of course.
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Originally posted by john9001
the DNC has filed suit to stop Sinclair.
Does this suprise anyone?
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(http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/flatsigned/kerrysoldier105cover.jpg)
you know, for BALANCE and all - LOL
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You all can't possibly think that free broadcast TV is the same or under the same set of regulations as pay-per-view or cable?
Sinclair is breaking the law unless he grants equal time in kind.
F911 and "Stolen Honor" are the same issue.
FEC don't cover either right? Neither is a political ad right? Both are just artistic explorations of historical people and events right? You know, "documentaries". :cool:
Or are you now admitting that F911 was a paid political ad that should have been subject to all the election law covering political ads? :rolleyes:
Can every theater that showed F911 now be sued because they didn't give equal screen time to F-Hype911 or "Stolen Honor"?
Amazing how the stories are different when the shoe is on the other foot. :aok
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stern is on "free" radio.
lazs
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You all can't possibly think that free broadcast TV is the same or under the same set of regulations as pay-per-view or cable?
Sinclair is breaking the law unless he grants equal time in kind.
It seems not.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/14/news/newsmakers/kerry_fcc.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes
:cool:
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yep... seems the FCC doesn't see it your way MT... but cheer up... you don't really want equal time do you? equal time for all the stations being critical of Bush to be critical of kerrie? 400 negative comments aboutr Bush this month? well... need to make 400 negative remarks about kerrie to catch up eh?
What about stern? should his radio station have equal time to a kerrie basher?
what really bothers these liberals is that..... damn it! the media and the schools are theirs! No fair useing their own tactics against em....now that their liberal lawyers have failed em they can allways threaten to blacklist anyone working on the project eh?
really funny.... the liberals ban nader from running and use the courts to keep him from being a candidate.... They don't like a book so they try to get publishers and bookstores to ban it.... they don't like a documentary? get is banned.... they don't like the way the election turns out? try recounting till they get the results they want...
dems are getting so sleazy that even the brain ded will be able to see it pretty soon.
lazs
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Just saw an interview with Creater if the video "Stolen Honor"
He claims the film was made intirely from money donated by veterens and "Not a single penny was given by a political party"
He also says he "offered Kerry Equal time in the film to tell his side but Kerry declined the offer"