Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Muckmaw1 on October 12, 2004, 02:52:08 PM
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OSLO (Reuters) - Norwegians including artists and politicians made a rare foray into U.S. politics Tuesday with an advertisement in a U.S. newspaper saying that President Bush (news - web sites)'s war on terror was backfiring.
The Norwegian group "www.tellhim.no" said it used about $50,000 in donations from 4,000 people to fund the advertisement in the Washington Post to tell Bush that 80 percent of people in NATO (news - web sites)-member Norway opposed the U.S.-led war in Iraq (news - web sites).
"Mr. President, your country can once again be a leading example of democracy and freedom, inspiring a world where terrorism can no longer breed," it said. "Your present policy only fosters resistance, more than ever, everywhere."
It urged a shift in U.S. foreign policy to allow greater U.N. involvement in Iraq, an apology to the Iraqi people for the war and compensation for victims.
It said Norway's government had given a wrong impression that Norwegians backed the war by sending 180 troops to Iraq to help stabilize the nation after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).
The campaign says it has backing from people including musicians, actors, artists, some members of parliament, union members and ordinary citizens.
"Our main goal has been to create a debate in Norway," said campaign spokesman Torgeir Knag Fylkesnes, asked if U.S. citizens might resent foreign interference in U.S. politics.
"We don't think this will have an effect on the election. That's not our goal," he said when asked if the group hoped that voters would oust Bush next month and elect Democratic challenger John Kerry (news - web sites).
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Just wait, a flood of idiots will come in and completely twist the meaning of this article.
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"It urged a shift in U.S. foreign policy to allow greater U.N. involvement in Iraq, an apology to the Iraqi people for the war and compensation for victims. "
Maybe we should just put Saddam back while we're begging Iraq for forgiveness.
I'm sorry but these people have a ridiculous world view.
WHat a joke.
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Ameristalker Ultra Supreme!!!
Wow!!! :rolleyes: What a bunch of losers..
:rofl :rofl
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I'm glad they're atleast paying attention.
Sure as ****, Americans aren't.
-SW
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Norway who?
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Think of it as stimulating the US economy by sponsoring one of your papers with 50000 $.
You are welcome :)
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well thats it! Im voting for Kerry!!!
I have been seeking the advice of artists and top notch intellectual thinkers from norway for years and years and now finally!
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You could have just asked Yeager.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Norway who?
:lol
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Originally posted by Yeager
well thats it! Im voting for Kerry!!!
I have been seeking the advice of artists and top notch intellectual thinkers from norway for years and years and now finally!
hehe..
That's pretty funny, Yeager.
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Gawd, I love the 1st Amendment. ;)
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"Mr. President, your country can once again be a leading example of democracy and freedom, inspiring a world where terrorism can no longer breed," it said. "Your present policy only fosters resistance, more than ever, everywhere."
Just remember that the ones resisting are the ones that want to rule through the application of fear and the power of the gun instead of democracy and freedom and the power of the vote.
Pretty amazing statement coming from a people who live free today but once lived under a brutal dictator.
How quick you forget.
Glad we and the Brits could help you guys out with that too.
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Keep a close watch on absentee ballots being mailed to Norway.
I don't like the looks of this.....
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Originally posted by Blooz
Glad we and the Brits could help you guys out with that too.
Glad we could help you and the brits too.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Glad we could help you and the brits too.
So you are saying Norway helped the USA and Brits as much as the USA and Brits helped free Norway in WW2? WTF, are you French?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
WTF, are you French?
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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I wonder if Kerry likes this stuff?
I would think over all that it would hurt him.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So you are saying Norway helped the USA and Brits as much as the USA and Brits helped free Norway in WW2?
Yeah.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Yeah.
Reality check time nilsen..
How many libert ships did norway produce in WW2 to bring supplies to europe and defeat the nazis?
How many Lancaster bombers did norway produce to wipe out the german centers of production?
And finally do you honestly think that WW2 would have gone the same had england fallen in 1940 instead of Norway?
Of course you dont, because you know that norway did not contribute as much to the war as did the UK and the USA...
Those are just the unemotional facts..
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Reality check time nilsen..
How many libert ships did norway produce in WW2 to bring supplies to europe and defeat the nazis?
How many Lancaster bombers did norway produce to wipe out the german centers of production?
And finally do you honestly think that WW2 would have gone the same had england fallen in 1940 instead of Norway?
Of course you dont, because you know that norway did not contribute as much to the war as did the UK and the USA...
Those are just the unemotional facts..
Time to educate you Grun:
Total number of Norwegian _merchants_ put into allied service: 1084... 570 of them was lost with the loss of 3734 including my grandfather.
Norway did not produce any lancs (neither did the US) but we contributed with alot of personel to the war effort, and if you compare the effort in percentage to that of the US or Britain I would bet that you would reconsider your silly statement.
Comparing numbers directly is just silly and even you should understand that.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Comparing numbers directly is just silly and even you should understand that.
It works for Kerry when he compares coalition support for the war.
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How did they outbid the Finns?
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Norwegians are Hitler!
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These Norweigans got ripped off. These guys paid the Washington Post $50K to place an ad that reads just like the editorial page.
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Good one, ra.
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That $50K will likely get them as many votes for Kerry as they can place themselves. But what the heck, there's $50K more Bush can claim benefitting his economy. :aok
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Originally posted by AKIron
That $50K will likely get them as many votes for Kerry as they can place themselves. But what the heck, there's $50K more Bush can claim benefitting his economy. :aok
See, Bush isn't sending jobs overseas, he's bringing them here!
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Time to educate you Grun:
Total number of Norwegian _merchants_ put into allied service: 1084... 570 of them was lost with the loss of 3734 including my grandfather.
Norway did not produce any lancs (neither did the US) but we contributed with alot of personel to the war effort, and if you compare the effort in percentage to that of the US or Britain I would bet that you would reconsider your silly statement.
Comparing numbers directly is just silly and even you should understand that.
Like I said those are the unemotinal fcats, i know that justified national pride wants to make yoiu give your country a big role emptinally if not materially.
Cuz i;m asking you simply which nation was more importnat...
Here is just another simple reality check.
Do you think the allies in ww2 would have been better off if the USA withdrew from the war effort or if norway did? Because if you belive they contributed eequally, it should be a simple answer right?
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is it too late to give norway back to germany?
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The United States believes strongly in what you call soft power, the value of democracy, the value of the free economic system, the value of making sure that each citizen is free and free to pursue their own God-given ambitions and to use the talents that they were given by God. And that is what we say to the rest of the world. That is why we participated in establishing a community of democracy within the Western Hemisphere. It's why we participate in all of these great international organizations.
There is nothing in American experience or in American political life or in our culture that suggests we want to use hard power. But what we have found over the decades is that unless you do have hard power — and here I think you're referring to military power — then sometimes you are faced with situations that you can't deal with.
I mean, it was not soft power that freed Europe. It was hard power. And what followed immediately after hard power? Did the United States ask for dominion over a single nation in Europe? No. Soft power came in the Marshall Plan. Soft power came with American GIs who put their weapons down once the war was over and helped all those nations rebuild. We did the same thing in Japan.
So our record of living our values and letting our values be an inspiration to others I think is clear. And I don't think I have anything to be ashamed of or apologize for with respect to what America has done for the world.
We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works.
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Is that the guy that presented all those WMD falsehoods to the UN during basically the same speech?
Is that the guy who thinks that his coleagues are just shy of dementia?
Is that the guy who will be beating a hasty retreat from his job should Bush actually win?
He's a good man, I think. And he was doing his job.
Your quote I think is entirely accurate. But it was in service of something else. And should be looked at as such. At least it colors my reading of it, these two years later.
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So Toad, what went wrong in Iran in '53?
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Yup, Colin Powell is a great man. I wish to all that is righteous he'd run for president. Even if he won't, I'm still voting for him.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Yup, Colin Powell is a great man. I wish to all that is righteous he'd run for president. Even if he won't, I'm still voting for him.
-SW
Never happen... you can pretty much bet on some open minded, America loving, conservative neanderthal putting an end to his life.
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nash ...your negitive anti-american attitude is really starting to annoy me, i think you better just shut up before i say something scuzzy won't like.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Never happen... you can pretty much bet on some open minded, America loving, conservative neanderthal putting an end to his life.
Why? Conservative?
Seems like the only people that have assinated Presidents have been crazy arse nutjobs with nothing in common with conservatives.
I can't think of a President who was assinated by someone who loved America
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norway? Is that near france?:cool:
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Originally posted by john9001
nash ...your negitive anti-american attitude is really starting to annoy me, i think you better just shut up before i say something scuzzy won't like.
I love America. Go ahead - say what you want... Scuzzy will leave you alone. As long as you don't swear or post donkey-porn, we're all prepared to weather the storm you're about to unleash.
So... What's on your mind?
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Originally posted by GScholz
The Soviet Union.
I would say Britain and the US.
Britain stood Germany down almost alone while Russia made a peace agreement with Germany . Great help there Russia!
The US was the biggest single factor in the defeat of Germany. Even Churchill said as much in his "Memoirs of the Second World War"
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Originally posted by NUKE
Why? Conservative?
Seems like the only people that have assinated Presidents have been crazy arse nutjobs with nothing in common with conservatives.
Hmmm... call it a hunch.
(http://www.rasmuslarsen.dk/kkk/images/billeder/03.jpg)
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So are you saying that conservatives who love America are to be viewed as rasicst and KKK members?
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Traditionally, the Democratic party is the party of the Clan.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Traditionally, the Democratic party is the party of the Clan.
You're speaking of ancient history (early post-Civil War).
Is there such a thing as a liberal white supremist?
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He is saying that since Powell is black, some racist moron will end his life to "clense" America of the black terror...
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Sure, just as many liberal jew haters as there are ****** hating conservatives. what's yer point?
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Is Powell a jew too?
Sheet... then everyone would hate him. :D
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Dunno, I don't even know if he is a republican.
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Originally posted by texace
He is saying that since Powell is black, some racist moron will end his life to "clense" America of the black terror...
no, he is saying that some conservative, open minded, America loving person would kill Powell.
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I was actually refering to Sandman.
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Originally posted by NUKE
no, he is saying that some conservative, open minded, America loving person would kill Powell.
Well... around here, liberals are close minded, America haters.
One must assume that the opposite is true of conservatives. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
Well... around here, liberals are close minded, America haters.
One must assume that the opposite is true of conservatives. ;)
Well, Im a conservative and I am proud to be the opposite of what you just listed. :)
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Originally posted by NUKE
Well, Im a conservative and I am proud to be the opposite of what you just listed. :)
You don't love America?
hmmm...
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Whether Powell would get offed or not, by one group or another, is almost beside the point.
You did not have Powell to vote for in 2000, and you do not have Powell to vote for in 2004, because of the acceptance by both him and his wife was that Powell would likely be killed.
Now Powell doesn't strike me too much as a paranoid type of guy.
You could make a strong case for his pragmatism, even.
So what does it really say about things when someone like him won't even join the race?
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Originally posted by Sandman
You don't love America?
hmmm...
Read your post again my friend.
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Originally posted by Nash
So what does it really say about things when someone like him won't even join the race?
He's grapefruit whipped?
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Originally posted by NUKE
Read your post again my friend.
I've got plenty of contrasts. I chose one that fits, but probably isn't what you meant. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
I've got plenty of contrasts. I chose one that fits, but probably isn't what you meant. ;)
"Well... around here, liberals are close minded, America haters.
One must assume that the opposite is true of conservatives"
You said around here, libs are closed minded, America haters and that one must assume that the opposite is true of conservatives
I said I was proud to be the opposite of that. :)
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Ah... but the opposite of liberal or the opposite of the opposite? ;)
Opposite of America hating?
Opposite of conservative?
I've got plenty of choices for the ambiguous "that". :)
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Maybe Al Qaeda will kick in a few bucks and the New York Times will run a front page anti-Bush ad?
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Originally posted by AKIron
Maybe Al Qaeda will kick in a few bucks and the New York Times will run a front page anti-Bush ad?
Nah... they're probably rooting for him again... he set them back a bit, but he's been a boon to recruiting efforts. ;)
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Originally posted by Lizking
Dunno, I don't even know if he is a republican.
Sure, when he was the national security adviser in 1988 for Reagan he endorsed Saddam after Halabja and then used the same said genocide to validate his removal.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Nah... they're probably rooting for him again... he set them back a bit, but he's been a boon to recruiting efforts. ;)
I'm sure you're joking but there are more than a few that probably believe what you said. However, if they truly wanted Bush to stay in power they wouldn't be trying so hard to undermine our efforts in Iraq.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I'm sure you're joking but there are more than a few that probably believe what you said. However, if they truly wanted Bush to stay in power they wouldn't be trying so hard to undermine our efforts in Iraq.
I'm pretty sure "they" will continue to try to undermine our efforts in Iraq regardless.
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Nah, not regardless. I hear Kerry has "a plan". Not sure what it is but I hear it only has to be different from Bush's to work. I'm convinced. Well, sorta. Ok, not really.
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Originally posted by Nash
Your quote I think is entirely accurate. But it was in service of something else. And should be looked at as such. At least it colors my reading of it, these two years later.
Doesn't change the truth of it and that's what matters.
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Originally posted by Torque
So Toad, what went wrong in Iran in '53?
You refer to Operation Ajax?
Not really the use of "hard power" was it?
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Doesn't change it. But it colors it.
Tarnishes it, unfortunately.
That doesn't negate the accuracy nor poetry of the words, nor even the essential undeniable truths of them, but sadly ends up by way of cruel juxtaposition to their context, highlighting a stark disconnection between those truths and the objective they were in service of.
Peter piper picked a pack of purple pickles.
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Focus on the interpretation that gives you comfort.
You don't see anybody saying stuff like that about when the sons of Germany march, do you?
In fact, they pretty much don't say it about anyone else at all.
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Pretty soon, nobody will be able to say it.
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Tell it to the Afghan voters.
Then tell it to the Iraqi voters.
Kewl thing is..... they will vote and we will leave when they are up and running. Just like in Japan and Germany.
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Sure you will.
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Rather than think of Germany or Japan, I am reminded of the Philippines.
Call me a pessimist. ;)
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Yes, I am sure we will.
That you're not indicates to me that you are not the astute student of the American people that you apparently believe yourself to be.
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All you're saying is that you're being optimistic about the whole thing. Nothing more. But I think that's great.
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No, I'm saying I'm certain the American people have no interest in keeping large numbers of troops in Iraq beyond the point where Iraq has a functioning government.
There may be some troops there, as there were in Germany and Japan. But as Powell points out, we don't come to conquer. They'll have their own government and we'll be gone.
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If things go absolutely perfectly, you will neither "conquer", nor be gone.
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Just messin' around.... Off to bed. Cheers.
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Wear yourself out, Nash.
Make us into the boogie man that gives you peace.
They'll have their own government, they'll have their chance to rule their own country.
We'll be the ones that gave them that, with the help of the Brits, the Aussies and some others.
We'll stay to help them get on their feet and then we'll leave.
We know that and that's all that's really necessary.
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If things go perfectly, we'll bring'em all home and trick France and Russia into handling it.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Like I said those are the unemotinal fcats, i know that justified national pride wants to make yoiu give your country a big role emptinally if not materially.
Cuz i;m asking you simply which nation was more importnat...
Here is just another simple reality check.
Do you think the allies in ww2 would have been better off if the USA withdrew from the war effort or if norway did? Because if you belive they contributed eequally, it should be a simple answer right?
Are you drunk?
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Originally posted by Toad
You refer to Operation Ajax?
Not really the use of "hard power" was it?
One can argue that "hard power" is a subjective term. Terrorism by proxy used in an effort to subvert a democracy for nearly three decades, resulting in thousands of civillian deaths surely must be regarded as somewhat of a "hard power", especially if you're on the receiving end. The actions taken in Iran in '53 contradict as do many other points in history (post WWII) the rest of the rhetoric in the quote.
Heck, even the coup that installed the Baath party does to some degree.
Oh, and look at what countries are center stage today.
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Originally posted by Nash
Sure you will.
You've been fairly level haeded in most of what you've posted. Most, fairly.........
You are Canadian so I have to give you some leeway.
Those three words that you typed put you in a category. Anything you have to say is prefixed by those three words.
you.
And I mean that sincerely.
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Nilson, defender of the Norwegian honor.
to you and yours. A grandfather is a horrible thing to lose.
Mine is still kicking, WWII vet, airplane mechanic. Don't let anyone diminish the contribution that your country made.
We lost several in WWII and WWI, I've been to the memorial sites. Everything that was contributed was essential.
Our countries have enjoyed a mutual respect for many years, and the ad that was posted reflected that.
Do I agree with it? No.
If our political campaigns were of the same caliber, ............well hell, I don't know what I'd do.
It was still BS, but at least there was some tact:D
edit<>this post brought to you by Bacardi*
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strange...no-one got bent outa shape when Bush stuck in nose in our recent election over Mark Latham's Iraq policies...
Tronsky
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Originally posted by Lazerus
Nilson, defender of the Norwegian honor.
to you and yours. A grandfather is a horrible thing to lose.
Mine is still kicking, WWII vet, airplane mechanic. Don't let anyone diminish the contribution that your country made.
We lost several in WWII and WWI, I've been to the memorial sites. Everything that was contributed was essential.
Our countries have enjoyed a mutual respect for many years, and the ad that was posted reflected that.
Do I agree with it? No.
If our political campaigns were of the same caliber, ............well hell, I don't know what I'd do.
It was still BS, but at least there was some tact:D
edit<>this post brought to you by Bacardi*
Glad to hear that your grandfather is still around. The people of that generation has alot to offer us "youngsters".
P.S. Bacardi is one of my favorite companies so im glad the message was sposored by them :D
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Sponsored, but not endorsed:D
Used to work for a Bat distributor though.
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One kidney, one lung, four limbs. That old fediddleer can still pinch the head off a punk if he wanted too.
Get me started talking abouit him and I'll never stop.
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Originally posted by Lazerus
Get me started talking abouit him and I'll never stop.
Noted :)
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Btw, found a webpage describing my grandfathers fait in 1942.
http://www.warsailors.com/singleships/belize.html