Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on October 13, 2004, 12:13:35 AM

Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Sandman on October 13, 2004, 12:13:35 AM
linkage (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=1&u=/nm/20041012/pl_nm/campaign_dc)


According to the article, Kerry has won the past two debates. So what if he wins the third?

I'll wager that even if he does, the poll results will never show him leading by more than the error margin.

...and on top of that, poll results don't equate to electoral results. I hear it's possible to win the popular vote and yet still not be president.

thots?
Title: Re: Do the debates matter?
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 13, 2004, 12:19:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
linkage (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=1&u=/nm/20041012/pl_nm/campaign_dc)


According to the article, Kerry has won the past two debates. So what if he wins the third?

I'll wager that even if he does, the poll results will never show him leading by more than the error margin.

...and on top of that, poll results don't equate to electoral results. I hear it's possible to win the popular vote and yet still not be president.

thots?

Kerry won debate #1 unqustionably
whether Kerry won debate #2 or not.....
Is Debatable LOL
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Nash on October 13, 2004, 12:24:45 AM
They matter greatly, and have a huge effect. Always have. Every debate that's ever been.

Minds are changed or cemented on account of them more than any other thing I can think of during an election. Unless you're caught bangin' Donna Rice.
Title: Re: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Toad on October 13, 2004, 12:33:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I hear it's possible to win the popular vote and yet still not be president.
 


Not only possible but designed to be that way by the Founders. It's a good thing.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Sandman on October 13, 2004, 12:35:23 AM
Once again.. sarcasm fails me. :(
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Toad on October 13, 2004, 12:46:25 AM
Sounded more like a lament to me. Just thought I'd help ya in your sorrow.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Sandman on October 13, 2004, 12:47:20 AM
I'd be okay with the electoral college if California had more votes. :D
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Toad on October 13, 2004, 12:53:39 AM
Better get more of those illegals registered then!
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Gunslinger on October 13, 2004, 01:23:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I'd be okay with the electoral college if California had more votes. :D


That's blasphemy to the rest of the Union!
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: lazs2 on October 13, 2004, 08:32:29 AM
if Bush loses as bad as he did the first time again then they might give kerrie the edge in the weak Bush states and help him maintain control of all his weak states but....

If Bush can continue to show kerrie as a liberal who promises trillions of dollars of giveaway programs with no hope of paying for them and no real plan for iraq except a watered down Bush plan...

he will lose even nore states.

A tie or a close tie will be a Bush win.  

kerrie could pull off the electorial vote but he has a much worse shot at it... He has a lot of vulnerable states and has to keep them while picking up some of Bush's vulnerable ones.

The most important thing will be who has the most shocking commercials/broadcasts toward the end.

lazs
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Ripsnort on October 13, 2004, 08:42:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Better get more of those illegals registered then!


ROTFLMAO!!!:lol

Quote
Friday, Sept. 5, 2003
LOS ANGELES – California Gov. Gray Davis quietly announced to the Spanish-language media that he will sign the controversial bill allowing illegal aliens to obtain driver's licenses.

This as critics in Davis' own state government condemned the bill for endangering the public and the electoral process by enabling illegal aliens to fraudulently vote and unlawfully purchase firearms.


SB-60, revived this year after similar bills were vetoed in 2001 and 2002, would allow 'undocumented immigrants' to apply for state-issued driver's licenses using foreign birth documents and IRS taxpayer identification numbers in lieu of previously required U.S. birth certificates and Social Security numbers.


The licenses issued under the proposed law would carry no indication that the applicant was not a legal resident. That, critics say, will create a host of problems they say bill supporters have failed to address.


Voter Fraud Expected


A driver's license is the only official document needed to register to vote, according to the Registrar of Voters office in Los Angeles County, Calif. A spokesperson there said that's because, until now, a valid license was a clear indication of legal residency.


The Registrar's Office confirms an illegal alien, license in hand, would simply have to lie in response to the citizenship question on the voter registration form in order to begin voting.


The office said it has no way to verify whether or not an applicant is a citizen. Voter registration forms are signed under penalty of perjury, it said, and the citizenship question is simply answered "on the honor system."


Officials at the office could not recall a single instance of a registered voter being prosecuted for perjury.


Additionally, California's motor-voter law enables driver's license applicants to simultaneously register to vote. The new license bill has no provisions to limit or remove the automatic voter registration process from the applications.

Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Sandman on October 13, 2004, 08:48:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
That's blasphemy to the rest of the Union!


Yeah, but I noticed you didn't disagree. :aok
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 13, 2004, 08:49:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I'd be okay with the electoral college if California had more votes. :D


I'd be ok with it if california had NO votes :D :D
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Ripsnort on October 13, 2004, 08:50:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I'd be okay with the electoral college if California had more votes. :D


http://www.electoral-vote.com/

(http://www.electoral-vote.com/oct/oct13.png)
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: lazs2 on October 13, 2004, 08:55:34 AM
yep.. the map is from an avowed kerrie supporter but he does try his best to be fair.

If you look at the map the dark red or blue are strong Bush/kerrie states... the light red/blue are "weak" Bush/kerrie states and the outlined ones are very weak with no color a tossup.

every poll I can find shows about the same thing so.... there is no news of it today by netscape or msnbc or yahoo or any of the internet news sources... not newsworthy like when kerrie "pulled even in popular vote" a few days ago (was only a percent or two down).

lazs
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: myelo on October 13, 2004, 09:09:36 AM
How much these debates will matter remains to be seen.

But there's no question that they CAN matter greatly:

Nixon-Kennedy 1960.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: AKIron on October 13, 2004, 10:11:18 AM
They only matter if there are a significant number of undecided voters. Certainly the networks would like for us to think so, ratings and all.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Ripsnort on October 13, 2004, 10:37:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by myelo
How much these debates will matter remains to be seen.

But there's no question that they CAN matter greatly:

Nixon-Kennedy 1960.


Well, I wouldn't say the debates were the sole reason for JFK's win.. there are the mafia-union payoffs that led to the unprecedented ballot box stuffing in Mayor Daley's Chicago giving JFK his razor thin, winning margin over Nixon in 1960's general election. The scandal is so infamous that there is now a standard joke on the rubber chicken circuit for candidates that goes, "I want to be buried in Chicago so that I can stay politically active after I die."
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Sabre on October 13, 2004, 02:06:18 PM
People who wait to see these debates to make up their mind are a waste of voting power.  If you haven't bothered to stay informed yourself, these debates will not give you any real information on where the candidates truly stand, or how they will govern.  A good public speaker does not make a good leader, and vice versus.  All they really do is give the uninformed the ammuntion to say, "Dang! He lied to us during the debates!"  Look at their records, not their words.  If they have stayed true to their beliefs, if they have shown true leadership in crisis and in day to day life, if they've shown moral courage to stick with their convictions, regardless of polls or circumstance, they are a leader.  If you haven't made up your mind already, you don't deserve to exercise the ultimate political power our system offers.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: myelo on October 13, 2004, 02:15:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Well, I wouldn't say the debates were the sole reason for JFK's win..  


Neither would I. My point was they mattered. (http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/K/htmlK/kennedy-nixon/kennedy-nixon.htm)

Quote
At election time, more than half of all voters reported that the Great Debates had influenced their opinion; 6% reported that their vote was the result of the debates alone. Thus, regardless of whether the debates changed the election result, voters pointed to the debates as a significant reason for electing Kennedy.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: GtoRA2 on October 13, 2004, 03:32:32 PM
I am all for Cali giving up some of its electoral votes.


With the Nutters we have in this state we should not have so much influence. :D
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: midnight Target on October 13, 2004, 03:36:12 PM
Ripsnort does it again! That article you quoted was from 9-2003! We kicked the Governor out for that little fiasco... remember?

Never happened, yet Rip uses it to make a point. sheeesh!
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: FUNKED1 on October 13, 2004, 03:38:22 PM
I don't think the average American voter is very smart, but they seem to be learning that actions speak louder than words.  Debates are just hot air.  And the exclusion of all but DNC/GOP candidates ensures there will be no real discussion.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Urchin on October 13, 2004, 03:57:24 PM
I'm voting for Nader... I hate everyone.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: vorticon on October 13, 2004, 04:01:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
I don't think the average American voter is very smart, but they seem to be learning that actions speak louder than words.  Debates are just hot air.  And the exclusion of all but DNC/GOP candidates ensures there will be no real discussion.


maybe we should hold the debates in a hot air balloon.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Sabre on October 13, 2004, 04:15:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Ripsnort does it again! That article you quoted was from 9-2003! We kicked the Governor out for that little fiasco... remember?

Never happened, yet Rip uses it to make a point. sheeesh!


As I recall, it did happen, but Arnold overturned it.  Do I remember incorrectly?
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: AWMac on October 13, 2004, 04:23:12 PM
Skuzzy '08  :aok
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: midnight Target on October 13, 2004, 05:28:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sabre
As I recall, it did happen, but Arnold overturned it.  Do I remember incorrectly?


Overturned before it went into effect.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Halo on October 13, 2004, 05:31:56 PM
Most every inclination can find a poll somewhere that supports it.  I'm inclined to agree that 8 or 9 of every 10 people already have decided who they're going to vote for no matter who "wins" the debates.

Main problem is the difficulty of finding the whole truth, the absolute truth, and nothing but the truth no matter who's speaking.
Title: Re: Do the debates matter?
Post by: -MZ- on October 13, 2004, 07:34:46 PM
The purpose of debate.....




... is to catch de fish.
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Eagler on October 13, 2004, 07:54:36 PM
it'll be a lib/girlie man audience

the majority of Bush support will be on Fox watching;
"Boston Red Sox at New York Yankees" game #2

nope don't matter .. the debate will be forgotten when the majority are in the voting booth

f911 on the nite b4 the election swaying more mush minds than all 3 debates combined ....

and when it is said and done.....

LANDSLIDE BUSH!!!
(http://www.aikengop.com/graphics/bush_cheney_2004_227x340.jpg)
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Nash on October 13, 2004, 07:59:21 PM
That's a picture where Bush is thinking "Smell my armpit, chumps."

(and you forgot the "LOL")
Title: Do the debates matter?
Post by: Eagler on October 13, 2004, 08:02:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
That's a picture where Bush is thinking "Smell my armpit, chumps."

(and you forgot the "LOL")


you are not funny anymore .... more like a gnat at sunset, almost invisible but still annoying