Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DVDA on October 13, 2004, 12:39:53 AM
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I have been playing World War II combat games since Air Warrior was released on AOL.
And I must say I really loved Air Warrior but Aces High is a great game (love the realism)...On with the rant....
Why did HTC decide to add kill shoot to this game, I for one feel it takes away the realism and penalizes the pilot who wasnt being stupid. Allow me to elaborate, 3 days ago im 200-400 yrds away from a spit and I start firing, and a friendly P-51 at full speed dove down and flew completely into my stream of bullets. Not only did he get me killed but he stole the kill as well. In Air Warrior if you shot a friendly.."oh well, my bad" there was a lot less stupid pilots in Air Warrior, if you flew into someone’s stream of bullets you paid for it by dying, and if your a dumb pilot and you accidentally downed a friendly if it was done twice within 24 hours you'd loose your ammo and wouldnt be able to fly for the country.
I for one feel that a system like this would be better in AH2 if you kill a friendly it should record it, and if you do it again you are no longer provided ammo from that country. A record should be kept permanently of how many friendly planes you have downed (to keep people from killing 1 friendly a day with no consequence) as for the consequence maybe 1 week ban, loss of 100-200 perk points for more then 5 friendly planes in a month I dont know something like this.
What do you guys think?
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Nope. Sorry.
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Some timely advice. Please click here:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/image.php?action=posting
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NO
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really wasnt a yes or no question....what is ment by what do you guys think, i was looking for "well i like the kill shoot system better then air warriors system" etc
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Well i like the kill shoot system better then air warriors system.
Use the search function to see this discussed ad nauseum. :)
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Originally posted by DVDA
really wasnt a yes or no question....what is ment by what do you guys think, i was looking for "well i like the kill shoot system better then air warriors system" etc
Next time just clearly state what reponse you wish someone to post in reply and it will be less difficult.
:D
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I think your proposal won't stop anybody from diving into your bullet stream - so you could find yourself without ammo for your chosen country for 24 hrs due to other pilots' foolish flying.
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I personally hate the kill shot.
I always hate when friendly fire isnt fully on. Main reason realism. Second reason tactics.
I just the other day experienced the same thing as the thread owner.
I was chasing a spit and I had a slight lag hickup on my system. When the lag hickup dropped off I had a spit right infront of me, I mean 0d. So ofcourse I blast away. Now it was a friendly spit that had warped in infront of me during the lag hickup.
Boom dead.
I know lag shouldnt be accounted into discussing this. But the example in the original post is a very good one. Ive so damn many times had people dive in infront of me and running into my LoF. They do this because they know its no risk for them to do so. There is no risk for them to be a greedy stats h0.
Imho the kill shot is one of the biggest reason kill steals are so common in AH.
Well thats my 2 cents.
Tex
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or you could make it to where the careless flyer that is out for the all mighty kill and score and flys infront of another with out any thought, suffers damage, be penalized for being shot by a friendly and when he explodes let a message pop up on screen saying "so&so was shot down by friendly fire , because he flys without any respect to his fellow countrymen and is only out for the score and kill.....what a worthless point mongering dweeb" :D
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If I remember correctly, the system in AW was if you killshoot two friendlies, you get Persona Non Grata (png) and couldn't fly for your country for a limited amount of time.
I thought it worked well. If one of your teammates pissed you off, you could wait until he climbs to altitude, then come up from behind and kill him. Not that I ever did that, but i'm certain it happened.
I do remember the "your shooting a friendly" message.
To me it dosen't really matter. HT's solution works.
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So....lemme get this straight....
You were behind a spit and you opened fire.....a high Pony dives down and crosses into your bullet stream.....
And you didnt see the Pony above you? Sounds like you need to work on your SA. Now if the Pony was below you....you may have a gripe. But then again....if you fly as part of the horde, you should expect others to fight over the same kill as you. **** happens as they say.
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sling brings up a valid point here, but there are times and we all have seen it. You are in with a bogey maneuvering behind him turning revving etc..you know when you started there was say 1 friendly icon bout 4k above and east of you, 1 friendly icon to north of you 3k out and above you maybe 1 or 2 more south of you with some alt...well you call "I am in on the niki" and the next thing you know some idjit is firing over your shoulder then it stops the next thing , he flys up from under your nose just as you try to put a burst of 4 cannons ( F4U1C) into this niki. only to completely shred your right wing off. why did 2 or 3 of the friendlys not ask "hey you need help?" before flying into the fight with out giving any respect to your flying ability? you called in you was in, they only are there to collect a kill, regardless if it was a quick kill, a damned good 1 vs 1 dogfight( just to be ruined by a cherry picker) or anything else.......I have flown along and saw 1 guy in on a lower plane, just to see #2, #3, #4, #5 dive down behind him once the first guy was already engaged..........
I never flew WBs for any long period of time , I did fly AW for a good amount of time, and some other online sims too...outside of FA, I never saw this crap like I see in AH, heck 2 years ago in AH I did not see the stupid crap I am seeing now........thing is no one calls the careless flyers on it. They might say hey you dweeb you did so & so etc.but that is it....all online flying sims has had some type of code of ethics either written out some where or unwritten but widely known and expressed....the AH community needs to either call these offenders out and have a descent majority of folk back the AH member that called the offender on it up or keep on letting certian instances happen with out any thought or care......you either do something about it or let it continue to happen.....
#1 - fly smart , give courtesy to your fellow flyer and don't invade his fight unless he needs help or calls for it
#2 - Call in on a bandit, if someone else calls in, do not engage, fly high cap and support the engaged friendly, wait til needed
#3- if you see some one in a dogfight low, and then see another dive in, and another....speak out...hey 1 should do, 2 is enough, 3 is more than enough, 4 of you on him is easy prey for the incoming Bandits stay high and lets fly high cover for these other low 3 flyers so they don't get bounced....or something of the sort
it is up to the community to change the community....either there is a problem and we need to fix it.or we all shut up and carry on with the way things are going.....
my more than 0.02 worth :)
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
#1 - fly smart , give courtesy to your fellow flyer and don't invade his fight unless he needs help or calls for it
#2 - Call in on a bandit, if someone else calls in, do not engage, fly high cap and support the engaged friendly, wait til needed
#3- if you see some one in a dogfight low, and then see another dive in, and another....speak out...hey 1 should do, 2 is enough, 3 is more than enough, 4 of you on him is easy prey for the incoming Bandits stay high and lets fly high cover for these other low 3 flyers so they don't get bounced....or something of the sort
I can agree with this................
............and AW dropped PNG latterly must admit I liked it.
You were allowed 2 freindly kills in each 24 hour period and then after replanning (for the next 24 hours) you could only fly goons.
However folk with a tendancy for freindly kills were rightly villified in the arena..............at the end of the day the ac closest had the "shot".
The humiliation of appologising for "killing an ally" was more scary than being simply dumped back to tower............daisy chains were much rarer than here.
As an AW newbie in 1996 my first freindly kill was on a guy called SM (snowman) who was that day in the process of racking up a 20+ kill streak.
Talk about wrong guy wrong time:( he forgave me .........eventually.
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Originally posted by DVDA
In Air Warrior if you shot a friendly.."oh well, my bad" there was a lot less stupid pilots in Air Warrior, if you flew into someone’s stream of bullets you paid for it by dying, and if your a dumb pilot and you accidentally downed a friendly if it was done twice within 24 hours you'd loose your ammo and wouldnt be able to fly for the country.
I for one feel that a system like this would be better in AH2 if you kill a friendly it should record it, and if you do it again you are no longer provided ammo from that country. A record should be kept permanently of how many friendly planes you have downed (to keep people from killing 1 friendly a day with no consequence) as for the consequence maybe 1 week ban, loss of 100-200 perk points for more then 5 friendly planes in a month I dont know something like this.
What do you guys think?
So with your systym of game play after a friendly flies in front of you twice you would be forced to change country or ferry troops, not to mention with the hordes like they are yu could potentially have this happen in all 3 countries.
Sounds like fun.
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Originally posted by sling322
So....lemme get this straight....
You were behind a spit and you opened fire.....a high Pony dives down and crosses into your bullet stream.....
And you didnt see the Pony above you? Sounds like you need to work on your SA. Now if the Pony was below you....you may have a gripe. But then again....if you fly as part of the horde, you should expect others to fight over the same kill as you. **** happens as they say.
So, while trying to line up a shot on the bud guy, you need to track friendlies at the same time too? Lets say he knew it 51 was above him. What should he do, break off the attack because the 51 may dive in at some point or keep his eyes on the friendly instead of the bud guy?
The guy just asked a question. There is no need for these attacks.
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I liked the AW system better. The way it works here, it never trains a guy to stay out of the way if a guy is shooting. They figure wth I'll just slide in at try for the kill, I wont die, just the shooter will. In AW although the shooter would get a PNG if he shot a friendly down twice, the "victim" would die...making him think twice about "sliding in". It trained him to stay clear.
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You remained png (for 24 hours) which ever country you flew for
I can only recount the effect png (after to freindly kills) had on another game in another time.............
1) Folk did not dive infront of other folk who were saddled cos it was considered dangerous and rude..................
2) Folk did not try to shoot over the shoulder of other folk because it was obvious when they did it and killed a freindly and they were going to have to appologise or at least suffer critique. As well as move one step closer to PNG.
3) Accidents did happen in each case the shooter was one step nearer PNG and had to be care ful and the victim was unceremoniously rtb'd. Newbies had more accidents that vets but were quickly "educated" on channel. Folk had to be SA wary of "accidents".
4) Abuse did happen (rarely and mostly infamously) I can rem some one being so P'ed off that he changed contries and vulched two (now ally) oponents on their own runway. This was pretty infamous.
Also its obvious that some times rude perpetrators of 1) above were some times shot out the way by pilots who were running a clean sheet.
As I said latterly AW also introduced kill shooter (not by that name) which could be switched on or off (in arena settings) just as in AH now.
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Originally posted by JB66
If I remember correctly, the system in AW was if you killshoot two friendlies, you get Persona Non Grata (png) and couldn't fly for your country for a limited amount of time.
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It was you could fly but you couldnt have any bullets/bombs
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
sling brings up a valid point here
:lol... I don't think so. While SA is the act of being aware of everything around you, I don't think it implies I have to worry about the farging cherry picker camped 4k above waiting for me to burn this guys E state to nothing.
TC, YOU on the other hand have it exactly right.
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
#1 - fly smart , give courtesy to your fellow flyer and don't invade his fight unless he needs help or calls for it
#2 - Call in on a bandit, if someone else calls in, do not engage, fly high cap and support the engaged friendly, wait til needed
#3- if you see some one in a dogfight low, and then see another dive in, and another....speak out...hey 1 should do, 2 is enough, 3 is more than enough, 4 of you on him is easy prey for the incoming Bandits stay high and lets fly high cover for these other low 3 flyers so they don't get bounced....or something of the sort
I laugh my butt off everytime I see a conga line form on a P51 or La7. That's just silly... a simple "Are you closing on him? Should I dive down to turn him?" will often suffice.
As far as the thread subject... I say the cherry picker should die to the hail of bullets. I shouldn't have to watch for red icons and stupid green ones closing fast as well. :p
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Just some notification from me.
If you can steal my kill BEFORE I've actually shot him down then do it.
no need to apologise for it and
You wont get a complaint or a whine from me.
im more concerned THAT the enemy plane dies then who gets credit for it.
The only thing I object to is after I've blasted a wing off the plane and he's going down and someone chases it down to get those last final shots in it to claim it from himself.
Untill that happens far as Im concerned he's fair game to everyone.
If you can jump in front of me and get the shot, go for it.
i know how to let my finger off the trigger button
If I get killshooter (which VERY rarely happens because I know how to let go of the trigger) It's my own fault.
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Originally posted by Tilt
You remained png (for 24 hours) which ever country you flew for
I can only recount the effect png (after to freindly kills) had on another game in another time.............
You forgot a classic... :D
5) Low altitude bombing was a great way to get a "vacation". Fully gunned B17... bomb drop too low, BOOM... six friendly kills in a heartbeat (three days off)
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I don't even want to think of the response after the first 262 dies to freindly fire.
And I like the kill shoot system better then air warriors system.
Infact I disliked the PNG system so much I invented the Kill shooter system. Still have fond memories of having my first 13 kill mission, flying back , no enemies in the sector, and low and behold here comes a newbie from dead 6 to shoots me down.
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It is not too smart to get killed by kill shooter. Had an idiot come from under me a couple of nights ago in a fast plane, get kill shooter, and get all bent out of shape about it. If kill shooter had been off, I would have gotten killed by someone I didn't (couldn't) even see because he was starving for a kill and hell bent on firing his guns. Totally his own damn fault, it wouldnt be fair to penalize someone else for something like this.
I can't remember the last time I was kill shootered, and I am sujre it is not even 3 times in the whole time I have played this game. It ain't perfect but it is better than any alternative ever proposed in the past 1,000 time this topic has been rehashed when someone didn't use the search function and post about it again.
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Originally posted by hitech
Infact I disliked the PNG system so much I invented the Kill shooter system. Still have fond memories of having my first 13 kill mission, flying back , no enemies in the sector, and low and behold here comes a newbie from dead 6 to shoots me down.
LOL did you forgive him?
were you a nice soldier?
hang on........ a Fubar?
never mind........
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Originally posted by Alpo
You forgot a classic... :D
5) Low altitude bombing was a great way to get a "vacation". Fully gunned B17... bomb drop too low, BOOM... six friendly kills in a heartbeat (three days off)
Hail Alpovich!
You did that?? naughty Sky Night
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Anyone who knowingly flies through another countryman who is within 200-300 yards of an enemy plane deserves to be the one who dies for being such a points potato. At that range the guy is gonna be shooting and specifically flying through him only shows how low some people can get. There is no way you will fly through someone who is in heavy maneuvering, without really trying to do it, meaning that's no accident.
What does all this mean? HT made a point that he likes this system as a result of his own anger at being shot down. It works because most noob's may take a shot at the nearest guy, be it countryman or enemy. And the normal odds of someone popping in front of your firing guns are low because as I said above it takes work to actually get your plane to fly through a guy in front of you in the course of a normal dogfight unless you specifically look to do it. Again, don't misunderstand. Accidents do happen but there is a difference.
That being said I disagree with HT concerning this setup. There is a lessor of the two evils and was used very effectively in another game. It's been said and involves a second look by HT.
Put in the 24 hour rule. If you shoot at a friendly with enough damage to knock him down you get no ammo for 24 hours. Period. You don't die, he doesn't die. You take the night off or change sides. End of story.
Besides, if some guy is so low that he intentionally flies into your bullet stream wouldn't you like to change sides and hunt him down?
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
#1 - fly smart , give courtesy to your fellow flyer and don't invade his fight unless he needs help or calls for it
#2 - Call in on a bandit, if someone else calls in, do not engage, fly high cap and support the engaged friendly, wait til needed
#3- if you see some one in a dogfight low, and then see another dive in, and another....speak out...hey 1 should do, 2 is enough, 3 is more than enough, 4 of you on him is easy prey for the incoming Bandits stay high and lets fly high cover for these other low 3 flyers so they don't get bounced....or something of the sort
it is up to the community to change the community....either there is a problem and we need to fix it.or we all shut up and carry on with the way things are going.....
my more than 0.02 worth :)
Heh....like that is ever going to happen. I am just giving my opinion on what you need to do in order to keep from getting killshootered (?). Real pilots in real life or death situations fighting against a real enemy will certainly give that kind of courtesy to each other. Hell its part of their training. But expecting a group of computer geeks flying planes on a computer screen to act in this way is ridiculous. It will never happen. Given that, you have to learn to be able to handle a higher level of SA so that you can keep track of where the friendlies are also.
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Originally posted by dedalos
So, while trying to line up a shot on the bud guy, you need to track friendlies at the same time too? Lets say he knew it 51 was above him. What should he do, break off the attack because the 51 may dive in at some point or keep his eyes on the friendly instead of the bud guy?
The guy just asked a question. There is no need for these attacks.
My response was in no way meant to be an attack and I dont know why you viewed it that way. I am simply saying that in this online environment you need to have a much higher level of SA because you cant expect total strangers in a computer flight simulation game to fly with the courtesy that TequilaChaser mentioned in his post above. Its simply not going to happen unless you happen to be flying with only your squadmates around you and you are working closely together to coordinate. The MA is every man for himself and thats the way most folks will fly.
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DamnedRen,
You seem to be assuming that what you see on your FE is the same as what the friendly who just flew through you sees on his FE.
In reality, for all you know, he has been in front of you the whole time on his FE and from his perspective you've been encroaching on him.
Because of the difference in what is on each FE the responisbility of what happens on your FE, which is unique from all other FEs, must be on you.
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It is just a part of the game...
Besides we all know we run contests from time to time looking for most kill shooter "kills" I've seen 4 on 1 "pass" in front of a conga line but I'm sure others have seen even more. :D
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Karnak...
Not when you been in heavy maneuvering for a few seconds.
Sling...
I gotta disagree with you concerning SA. Yes, you do need SA management but no you may not see the friendly that drops in from your high 4 while your in a hard right turn. The last thing I do before I fire is a quick check of my 6. How many times have you done a rolling scissors on a guy so you force him to loose you on his high blind side? And he's looking for you. Now take that same situation with all friendlies in the area. You snapshot yer 6 and go for a shot.
Squadmates should be reliable. :)
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This arguement is sutpid.
Limiting how many times a night you could shoot down an teammate would do nothing to limit how many times a night you could be shot down by teammates.
....and if you have played longer than an hour you know that no matter how well you are saddled up on a con, there is at least one jack-*** firing over you shoulder. I want that tard to be penalized when he pooches me, not the other way around.
I look at killshooter as forced and instant remorse.
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Humble.....
Besides we all know we run contests from time to time looking for most kill shooter "kills" I've seen 4 on 1 "pass" in front of a conga line but I'm sure others have seen even more.
Now there's a game! :D
Muahahahahahaha!
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Originally posted by Alpo
You forgot a classic... :D
5) Low altitude bombing was a great way to get a "vacation". Fully gunned B17... bomb drop too low, BOOM... six friendly kills in a heartbeat (three days off)
The one and only time I went PNG in AW:
6) I torpedoed a ship. Those unfamiliar with AW ... ships were stationary. Really easy to torpedo. Problem was. If there were friendlies vulching it .... boom! My torp hit the ship and blew up 2.
I used to give Mage pure hell about that. Torpedo and bomb png. Resulted in one of my macros being "WARNING! TORPEDO IN WATER! CLEAR MY FUGGIN TARGET!"
Killshooter works. Really ... it does.
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Lotsa posts on this thread plus the previous threads with its posts about the same subject. All complaints and thoughts about how it should be aside, doesn't the total number of threads about the subject tell anyone who cares to think about it, that something might be wrong?
Lets say there are 1000 people who voice an opinion because of the effects of the current system. If the player base is 3000 then a full 1/3 of the group of paying customers is saying, "hey, what's up with this?" If it's 4000 then it's still a full 1/4 of the players that feel strongly about the subject one way or another.
Kinda makes ya wonder.
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how many people gripin about getting killshot have their tracers off? Turn em back on might help you avoid it. Otherwise make the kill or get out of the way!
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Originally posted by SOB
Well i like the kill shoot system better then air warriors system.
Use the search function to see this discussed ad nauseum. :)
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Raider179
how many people gripin about getting killshot have their tracers off? Turn em back on might help you avoid it. Otherwise make the kill or get out of the way!
What does having tracers being on or off have to do with someone flying through you into your bullet stream? If they're gonna do it then that's what they're gonna do.
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DamnedRen,
A lot of us who like killshooter don't really post in these threads anymore because A) we're tired of arguing the point, B) we trust HiTech to keep killshooter and C) people with complaints are always far more likely to speak up than are satisfied people at a rate of about ten to one.
Don't take your thread as some sort of poll on the like or dislike of killshooter.
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lets not also forget the AW jagoffs that would sit on a runway and drop bombs killing all who spawned with no PNG.Pay attention.Thats the only way you can avoid these situations.
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<<A lot of us who like killshooter don't really post in these threads anymore because A) we're tired of arguing the point, B) we trust HiTech to keep killshooter and C) people with complaints are always far more likely to speak up than are satisfied people at a rate of about ten to one.
Don't take your thread as some sort of poll on the like or dislike of killshooter>>>
Which is exactly my point. If people with complaints are far more likely to post then you are hearing from those people who are posting. If that excedes 1000 post then it should be a wake up call to those who run things.
A poll is not required the posts are a poll.
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DamnedRen,
Your logic isn't logical. You're making up numbers.
There is not, and never has been a clear majority of anti-killshooter players who post when compared to the number of players who post to defend it.
Basically, it isn't going away and is, in many people's opinions, the best solution to the problem. HiTech's post in this thread should have let you know that. It isn't going away.
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... I don't think so. While SA is the act of being aware of everything around you, I don't think it implies I have to worry about the farging cherry picker camped 4k above waiting for me to burn this guys E state to nothing.
As long as your talking about "SA". What you say has just as much to do with "SA" as does the guy 2k under you, or the guy 1k behind you.
Your heads gotta keep moving or your plane wont keep moving.
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Not logical? Making up numbers?
It should be pretty simple to go back over the number of posts related to this issue and figure out just how many posts have been sent. Get the total and divide it by the number of subscribers and voila.
The question might be better asked if it excedes what percentage number does it mean there might be a real problem. 10%? 25% 35%?
This thread as well as others concerning killshooter have been posted. I don't decide what HT does or does not do. However, I raise the concern that there may be many folks who are disatisfied with the current system. Because you happen to like the current system doesn't mean others do.
He who doesnt heed warnings may have to accept the consequences. LOL! I came from a Company where many people said," We make money in spite of ourselves". Guess what? I think we didn't and our Company was bought out. After 16 years with the Company who bought us out guess what people are saying? "We make money in spite of ourselves". :)
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Originally posted by streetstang (aka Morpheus)
As long as your talking about "SA". What you say has just as much to do with "SA" as does the guy 2k under you, or the guy 1k behind you.
Your heads gotta keep moving or your plane wont keep moving.
Not disagreeing at all. Original post was that the high FRIENDLY pony is diving to snag the victim you've worked down. I just think it's sad that everyone is so kill count oriented that a simple, "need help with him" is never attempted before the pick.
To be quite honest, I'm pretty much in favor of kill shooter as I use it all the time when a conga line of friendlies forms behind me. If I see someone shooting over my shoulder from d200 back, I just might jink into the bullet stream. I'd hate to die to a bunch of friendly hispanos from behind. Pass me if you can, just don't shoot over me... think of it as a safety issue ;)
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Originally posted by Tilt
Hail Alpovich!
You did that?? naughty Sky Night
Hiya Tiltski. Yeah, nothing got your attention quicker than "You just killed a friendly"
The interesting ones were when you were low, dropped a stick of bombs, pulled up hard and got the message. No more tail gunner for the flight home ;)
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LOL, That was you? Well I did say I was sorry:)
NUTTZ
Originally posted by hitech
I don't even want to think of the response after the first 262 dies to freindly fire.
And I like the kill shoot system better then air warriors system.
Infact I disliked the PNG system so much I invented the Kill shooter system. Still have fond memories of having my first 13 kill mission, flying back , no enemies in the sector, and low and behold here comes a newbie from dead 6 to shoots me down.
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DamnedRen,
Given that the average length a subscription is maintained, an undisclosed but shorter than many think period, and the low number of individual poster's that have posted against killshooter you aren't even going to hit 1%, let alone 25% or 33%.
I would guess that I have, since 2000 when I started posting, seen less than 100 individual posters complain about killshooter. At the same time I have seen about the same number post in favor of it in response to those posts. In that same time frame I would bet that the number of subscribers would be numbered in the tens of thousands. You made up the 1000 posts number and you made up the 3000 or 4000 subscriber number, neither of which have any bearing on reality.
EDIT: Oh look, you can blame NUTTZ.:p
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LOL, no. If you read back some other poster made that statement. I'm merely saying if there are that many then there is a real problem that may need to be addressed.
I suppose the number of 2 week subscribers is pretty high also. If I'm not mistaken there was one guy who had 5 plus 2 week subscriptions going at the same time. I don't care how they accomplished that but one guy was handing out log on id's so you'd go fly with his squad in the MA.
Then there's the H2H guys who don't activate but fly there til they think they're good enough and make the trip to the MA. They go for 2 weeks and leave for the H2H arena. I think many of them do the 2 week thing over and over. So yes, there are a lot that come and go. But there are also alot who are here for the long run. Of those I wonder how they feel.
However, gawd forbid we actually took a poll. That might upset the apple cart.
:D
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DamnedRen,
Two weekers don't count as subscribers. Players only count as subscrubers once the plunk the money down on the counter. Two weekers are merely registered and I was ignoring them in my guestimates.
Keep in mind that I really have no idea of the total number of subscribers over the years either. I am just making some semi-educated guesses as to how many subscribers HTC needs to keep afloat. HTC real numbers are proprietory and they have never shown them to any of use mere subscribers like you and I.
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Well at this point i think the kill-shoot protesters should purposely fly right threw a friendly that flying straight and shooting a target, get the guy kill-shot then steal the kill.
Things will change quickly... :D
Im joking guys, i didnt mean for this post to turn into an all out war, i was just merely stating my disapointment in lack of realism. As well as the number of dumb pilots out there.
I played Air Warrior for years (since 1996?) and i honestly dont remember ever getting shot down by a friendly.
Hitech i know you invented the system but how many times did you get shot down by a friendly while playing Air Warriors?
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I personally dont care for the kill shooter system either. Every single time I have been kill shot was when some retard flew through my bullet stream. Kill shooter for the most part penalizes the wrong person.
It's pretty rare to see someone who is so new that they are shooting at green cons. In fact, I can only recall this happening once.
The argument that your SA just wasnt good enough holds no water here. Every last one of us drops SA as we concentrate on the shot. Now, that doesnt mean that our SA goes away entirely, it just isnt as high when you are concentrating on the shot.
Imo if someone is dumb enough to fly through your bullet stream they deserve the death, not you. If real life pilots did that they would be permanently removed from the gene pool and we wouldnt be worried about their stupidity being passed on to their offspring.
HiTech could code the game so that friendly fire does no damage. Shane will step in and say he hates seeing people spray bullets all over the place with no regard for friendly planes.....but that happens already. So whats the difference?
The one thing I see as a far larger problem than kill shooter is when you have done lethal damage to an enemy plane (ie, missing an entire wing, all the stabs gone etc) and some bottomfeeding goofball comes by and explodes the crippled aircraft and gets credit for a kill and all you get is an assist.
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the kill shoot thing is the best way to solve a problem that plagues many online multiplayer games....so you cant really moan about it......
....However, Bomb/rocket killshooter sucks! :(
lets say im in lancs, at 19k, im bombing a airfields FH and VH....and hit them for once, then i die????? How the fug was i suppose to know some stat potato in a osty/panzer was camping in one of the hangers vulching planes/gvs as they upped? :confused:
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Do like I did.Even with a Jabo I always called my target to clear the area.Thats all it takes.
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Originally posted by DrDea
Do like I did.Even with a Jabo I always called my target to clear the area.Thats all it takes.
That doesnt work always either. People still fly through the bomb/rocket blasts. I have been kill shootered with my own rockets more times than I can remember.
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KARNAK,
Rgr that and I don't need to be privy to HT's books :).
DVDA,
Plz dont take animated discussion as all out war. We are merely a buncha flyers getting together at the local watering holes swapping war stories. :)
Evveryone has a point of view and forums give them a chance to make it. I respect everyones right to make a statement pro or con concerning this subject. I just prefer they give a reason why. The "why" provides input to all and perhaps gives us an opportunity to see the others point of view. Who knows, we may change ours. :)
Statements that say this or that sux without validity provide no added value to any conversation.
As to one other thing you said. I guess Im just an old fart but I have "never"knowingly flown through anyone in a effort to get a kill and I have always cleared off right or left whenever someone bounced out in front of me.
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Originally posted by palef
Some timely advice. Please click here:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/image.php?action=posting
pretty funny
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Originally posted by sling322
So....lemme get this straight....
You were behind a spit and you opened fire.....a high Pony dives down and crosses into your bullet stream.....
And you didnt see the Pony above you? Sounds like you need to work on your SA. Now if the Pony was below you....you may have a gripe. But then again....if you fly as part of the horde, you should expect others to fight over the same kill as you. **** happens as they say.
Now this is stupidity at its best.....Sling....next time in MA...you saddle up 200 behind NME...Ill dive from you high 6 and in front. You think you will see me in time at 400+ MPH?
Not!
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Originally posted by DVDA
Well at this point i think the kill-shoot protesters should purposely fly right threw a friendly that flying straight and shooting a target, get the guy kill-shot then steal the kill.
Things will change quickly... :D
Im joking guys, i didnt mean for this post to turn into an all out war, i was just merely stating my disapointment in lack of realism. As well as the number of dumb pilots out there.
I played Air Warrior for years (since 1996?) and i honestly dont remember ever getting shot down by a friendly.
Hitech i know you invented the system but how many times did you get shot down by a friendly while playing Air Warriors?
You dont have to (Mean for it to) DVDA... This is AH BBS.
Very reare to get a civil discussion.
NO...I dont like the AH Kill Shooter. Have i learned to deal with it? Yes.
Doesnt make it the right tool for the job but it will have to do.
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Originally posted by Elfie
I personally dont care for the kill shooter system either. Every single time I have been kill shot was when some retard flew through my bullet stream. Kill shooter for the most part penalizes the wrong person.
It's pretty rare to see someone who is so new that they are shooting at green cons. In fact, I can only recall this happening once.
The argument that your SA just wasnt good enough holds no water here. Every last one of us drops SA as we concentrate on the shot. Now, that doesnt mean that our SA goes away entirely, it just isnt as high when you are concentrating on the shot.
Imo if someone is dumb enough to fly through your bullet stream they deserve the death, not you. If real life pilots did that they would be permanently removed from the gene pool and we wouldnt be worried about their stupidity being passed on to their offspring.
HiTech could code the game so that friendly fire does no damage. Shane will step in and say he hates seeing people spray bullets all over the place with no regard for friendly planes.....but that happens already. So whats the difference?
The one thing I see as a far larger problem than kill shooter is when you have done lethal damage to an enemy plane (ie, missing an entire wing, all the stabs gone etc) and some bottomfeeding goofball comes by and explodes the crippled aircraft and gets credit for a kill and all you get is an assist.
Well Put Elfie
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Originally posted by hitech
I don't even want to think of the response after the first 262 dies to freindly fire.
And I like the kill shoot system better then air warriors system.
Infact I disliked the PNG system so much I invented the Kill shooter system. Still have fond memories of having my first 13 kill mission, flying back , no enemies in the sector, and low and behold here comes a newbie from dead 6 to shoots me down.
The 262 problem is easy to fix. Perks should not be lost due to being killed by freindly fire.
On the other hand...it is clear that the (Kill Shooter) is here to stay based on you personal experience. :(
That fix those no good blankity blank fellow countrymen! :D
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I remember watching The History Channel and these B-17s were flying over a town and they dropped their bombs, then BOOOOOOM they exploded........ friendly tank in town.
B-17s Dead 1000 lbs of bombs right on the tank...not a dent.
realism for you
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I remember watching the history channel and this guy in a 5 incher on the CV was shooting into a furball and killing friendlies as well as enemies and when he went to the tower and the system awarded him 29 kills he got several wtgs.
There was another episode where this pilot killed his wingman and was told one more time and he'd get a 24 hr time-out.
And then there was the show where everyone died and came back to life .....
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you killed your wingman in real life and you got a few months time-out (grounded)
24 AH hours = 6 months real time, dang look at things on a large scale :D
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I think the lack of kill shooter being on tonight should put this kind of request into the grave.
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I havent flown since this has happened. Are people being more careful? Are there penalties for shooting a friendly?
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I liked the AW system better. The way it works here, it never trains a guy to stay out of the way if a guy is shooting. They figure wth I'll just slide in at try for the kill, I wont die, just the shooter will. In AW although the shooter would get a PNG if he shot a friendly down twice, the "victim" would die...making him think twice about "sliding in". It trained him to stay clear.
I couldnt agree more! I like the AW sollution much better and I dont see why it couldnt be implemented!
Oh yeah I remember this one time at band camp! :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Arlo
I remember watching the history channel and this guy in a 5 incher on the CV was shooting into a furball and killing friendlies as well as enemies and when he went to the tower and the system awarded him 29 kills he got several wtgs.
There was another episode where this pilot killed his wingman and was told one more time and he'd get a 24 hr time-out.
And then there was the show where everyone died and came back to life .....
I saw one where Arlo returned from the dead and took his revenge on those who thought they had killed him. He had all kinds of cool weapons he bought at the flea market.
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Heres my solution to killshooter. Take it off,
dont even allow the person getting shot at to hear the pings, this is if he is a friendly. And if you say this is gamey, isnt shooting at a friendly that wasnt watching and flying threw streams of bullets, and you get dmged for that, isnt that gamey?
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Digging up a year old thread is gamey.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Digging up a year old thread is gamey.
geez, I didnt even notice. Was happy to see Arlo:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Digging up a year old thread is gamey.
Are you trying to say I dug it
up? lol look at the dates man.
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Originally posted by palef
Some timely advice. Please click here:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/image.php?action=posting
OMFG STEAM ROCKORZ TEH BIG ONE111!
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I would have agree with that hitech guy. The last thing I need is to be rtb-ing max cruise with kills and have some idiot friendly shooting at me. Although kill shooter can be annoying when vulching, but none of us do that regularly anyways.:cool:
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Originally posted by jetb123
Are you trying to say I dug it
up? lol look at the dates man.
No, I'm saying westy dug it up. I merely used your adjective, because using a derivative of the word "game" to describe a game in a negative way is, well, stupid. Butter is buttery, and water is watery. Therefore, a game would also be gamey. I have not, however, ever heard anyone complain about butter being buttery, nor water being watery.
Moral of the story: don't shoot greens. It really is just that easy.
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Well thanks for digging up my ancient thread, now im confused is kill shoot off?
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Interestingly I can't recall a time in my 4-year history with AH that KS would have got me killed.
Then again I was flying the smallest country most of the time. Killshooter must be a huge problem when you're vulching that lone enemy in a horde.
Hey I just realised where all those surprising kills from nothing came in a furball! :aok