Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on October 13, 2004, 08:02:35 PM
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And away we go!
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skerry avoids the answer by saying what bush has done wrong...
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Surprised?
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nope
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And Kerry uses Bush's words against him and Bush denies saying what he said.
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LOL!! Bush made a funny! :D
"It must be one of those... "exagerations." :D
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Schieffer said FLU not SUE. Talk about 'zaggeration.
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Score Kerry on healthcare.
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On insurance, A draw
Kerry still hasnt said how he is planning on paying for this
Bush didnt do much better
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Rolling back the tax cut for those over $200K
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Originally posted by rpm
Rolling back the tax cut for those over $200K
I like how he says "rolling back" the tax cut.
Why doesn't he just call it what it is? I am going to raise taxes.
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What is that white thing forming on the corner of Bush's mouth?
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Bush got his numbers right on that one
Major difference between Kerrys plans on how he is going to pay for them and the tax money they have comming in under Kerrys same plan
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...guys, let's keep this all in one thread. I vote for this thread.
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Score Kerry! studmuffinhetaboutit.
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Kerry, the deficit went up because we were into a recession.
The Repubicans balanced the budget and created the surplus he is talking about. Reps controlled the house and senate and balanced the budget.
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Originally posted by Nash
What is that white thing forming on the corner of Bush's mouth?
grossin' me out
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OH NOOOOO the Presidents on ... and He's on every CHANNEL !!!
help help somebody save me !!!
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i predict rpm will give this debate to skerry .. surprised???
LOL
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anyone can say anything .. compare political records
there is no comparison
Bush wins again!
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Originally posted by flyingaround
grossin' me out
skerrys botox face is about to spit open - LOL
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ROFL your record is such that Ted Ken. is the "conservitive" senator from mass.
niiiice
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Originally posted by Eagler
i predict rpm will give this debate to skerry .. surprised???
LOL
Wow, you went out on a limb there. At least I'm willing to credit Bush when he wins a question. So far, he hasn't.
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Great answer by Bush on the homo question.
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Originally posted by rpm
Wow, you went out on a limb there. At least I'm willing to credit Bush when he wins a question. So far, he hasn't.
your opinion
mine is he hasn't lost one yet
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Kerry: "Were all God's children. And I think that if you talk to Dick Cheney's daughter and if you ask her she would tell you that... she was being who she was..."
POOR FORM! Minus ten points for Frankenkerry.
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Dang...he didn't go there. POOR taste w/ the Dick Cheney's kid comment.
Shows lack o' class imho
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OK, Kerry didn't have to bring up Cheney's daughter...but he's right.
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Another cheap shot by Kerry, mentioning Cheney's daughter. He's a loser. He could have said "ask any gay person" or something similar.
What, is Cheney's kid the only gay Kerry knows of?
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Originally posted by rpm
OK, Kerry didn't have to bring up Cheney's daughter...but he's right.
LOL LOL LOL
no class - isn't that a requirement of the left?
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can't claim to be a GOOD Catholic and publicly state you are FOR baby murder
twofaced loser - all things to all ppl
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Originally posted by rpm
OK, Kerry didn't have to bring up Cheney's daughter...but he's right.
Bringing up the sexual prefrence of anyones children to make a point is not being right, its being an ass..
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Draw on abortion. No way for either side to win.
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Originally posted by Krusher
Bringing up the sexual prefrence of anyones children to make a point is not being right, its being an ass..
I agree that he should'nt have mentioned Cheney's daughter. He was correct about the gay marrage being state's rights.
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Originally posted by rpm
Draw on abortion. No way for either side to win.
explain that to the fetus
boss adopted his first child, he knows of a dozen ppl waiting for a baby ... yep no way to win that one....
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Ha ha suckers I'm not watching these debates.,..
:rofl
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Originally posted by rpm
I agree that he should'nt have mentioned Cheney's daughter. He was correct about the gay marrage being state's rights.
if gay marriage is a state right, is abortion?
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Dang, Eagler changed my mind...wait he didn't change my mind or anyone else. Abortion issue is set in stone.
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I liked it early on when Bush said: (paraphrase...can't remember actual quote)
"Empty promises and a liteny of complaints is no plan at all"
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Originally posted by Krusher
if gay marriage is a state right, is abortion?
Not according to the SC.
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Originally posted by rpm
Not according to the SC.
that was a nice dodge, but lame.
whats the matter with your own opinion?
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My own opinion is it's a woman's right to chose.
Bush just tried to dis Bob Schieffer...bad choice.
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RPM
Do you really thing you have any objectivity about this election?
how was he trying to Dis bob?
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Originally posted by rpm
My own opinion is it's a woman's right to chose.
Bush just tried to dis Bob Schieffer...bad choice.
that could be considered an opinion but it sounds like a bumper sticker.
do you have an opinion on a states right to regulate abortions, if not just say no :)
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Kerry looks tired outta the gate.
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i'll take my own SS and be responsible for it - thank you very much
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someone explain to skerry that those '90's jobs lost were lost BECAUSE they paid so much!!
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My opinion is it's a woman's right to chose. The Superme Court has ruled it is a Constitutional issue so my opinion beyond that is irrelevant... unless I'm named to the SC.
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And if you take those 1 mill jobs lost to 911 a out of the equasion bush has a 200K employed surplus in jobs created
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Originally posted by rpm
my opinion beyond that is irrelevant
ok then, your opinion is irrelevant.
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"Let me just answer the last question first before I answer the question you just asked me... "
so Bush can't respond and I have less time to fill with "MY PLAN" on the current question... LOL LOL
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someone explain to skerry you can't do that in an economic recovery
yeah, lets RAISE the cost of biz while they are struggling to survive
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Originally posted by rpm
My opinion is
At some point, you should try and find that fine line where it might be interesting, and of worth to the BBS, which of course it is. Just not every 3 minutes.
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p\/\/nt
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Dang, company showed up...continue without me.:(
If you want me to say it's a national issue and not a states issue, then fine....It's a national issue.
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Im about as middle class as you can get in my area
Looking outside I see two cars both less then 5 years old. a house I've been able to refinance down to 10 years from the 30 it was. looking in I have 5 Tv,s 3 DVD players. 3 VCR's 4 game systems 3 computers. Admittedly 2 are less then 1 ghz
cept the house and 1 of the cars everything is paid for in full
I have less then 1K in creditcard debt
Furniture all less then 5 years old
a 16 year old son who has his own job And a host of other things
Add to that I live in the most expencive state in the union to live
Hmmm guess kerry is right
im doing terrible
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your just a rich whitey :)
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So far I have this thing a total draw.
Mostly cause nobody is really saying anything new
Nor are their attacks anything new
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is he going just crap out these new soldiers??
where is he going get em? how?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
So far I have this thing a total draw.
Mostly cause nobody is really saying anything new
Nor are their attacks anything new
it's not what they say, it is how they look saying it and Bush looks better this time around than botox skerry
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cloning!
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Skerry loses big time, on the assault weapon ban...
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LOL!
Kerry: "Im a hunter!"
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He wasnt a law enforcement officer, he wa a law enforcment LAWYER LOL
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Skerry loses big time, on the assault weapon ban...
Agreed
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Have they really said anything yet ???
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Kerry the Doomsayer vs Bush The Optimist
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the dems are still mad about 2002
LOL
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Kerry would no more be a uniter then Bush.
he is full of it on that.
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I think the last one was a draw. If Bush keeps it up I think this one is a win for him, he has been funny and made his points for the most part.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Kerry would no more be a uniter then Bush.
he is full of it on that.
as he is on everything that leaves his lips once he has spoken his name
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Kerry made a funny, point Kerry.
Loss kerry, with the Integrity, integrity integrity speal.
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is skerrys middle name Moses or something?
"I can heal the troubled waters of the world"
he should be selling used cars in michigan somewhere...
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I dont think this is going to have any effect on the longterm polls whatsoever
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Dred,
Yeah your right, it is close, but I think Bush took this one slightly. It will be interesting to see how objective I am when people start talking about it after.
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Bush had the better closing statment
the rest I have as a draw
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hot air vs substance
not a draw to me
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Dred,
Yeah your right, it is close, but I think Bush took this one slightly. It will be interesting to see how objective I am when people start talking about it after.
LOL isnt that the way it always is?
Easier to watch the debate then to participate in one LOL
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don't worry ..
for some the talking heads will now tell you how to think....
LOL LOL
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Bush did well, seemed very genuine, down to earth and real. Kerry didn't do his best on the issues.
Kerry blew it when he went after Cheney's daughter.
I'd say Bush slightly over Kerry.
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ABC
"we have filters we don't have spinners" as they ask georgie boy his opinion of the debate ... amazing
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Eagler,
I made up my own mind. I said I think Bush took it slightly.
I said I was going to compare what I think, to them.
That was pretty insulting.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Eagler,
I made up my own mind. I said I think Bush took it slightly.
I said I was going to compare what I think, to them.
That was pretty insulting.
my comment wasn't direct to anyone in this thread ..odd though you thought is was :)
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It was posted right after Dreds and my comments.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
It was posted right after Dreds and my comments.
as were each of my other responses :)
I was not directing it to you or anyone else in this thread, please except my apologies if i offended you as it was not my intent
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is it me or was the moderator asking some questions that were bush-bashing ?
the question that had both of them mumbling about their religious beliefs ... you know the one about what he meant when they asked bush if he had talked with his dad before the iraq invasion (how the hell is this a question kerry can answer? i thought every question was supposed to be answered by both candidates)
and a couple of others i forgot the specifics.
and yes, going after Cheney's daughter is outright LOW.
both did fairly good imo, lots of repetitions.. the immigration part was something new though, and bush i think beat him up on that.
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LMAO Sign in background on CNN
"Kerry eats Babies"
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It's cool Eagler, I was being to sensitive, and you did not direct it at me, so no worries man.
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Draw - both look tired and fell back on mantra's a lot. None of the numbers worked out for either candidate - I guess math is the first to go.
On a side note, there was too much moderator in the questions. It seemed the questions were being framed for a humanistic news fluff piece (cant we all just be friends). I didn't like it.
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Draw? Yeeaahh not even close.
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Originally posted by Nash
Draw? Yeeaahh not even close.
I thought it was pretty close but Bush won.
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Originally posted by Nash
Draw? Yeeaahh not even close.
I agree. Bush wins.
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Originally posted by Eagler
don't worry ..
for some the talking heads will now tell you how to think....
LOL LOL
Yanno I was thinking about this statement and it suddenly occured to me.
Ever notice when Kerry speaks he has this bad habit of telling the audiance to "Listen"
or "Look"
But "Listen" is the one he seems to like the best.
I think that may be one thing that subconciously annoys me about him.
Being TOLD to listen.
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Well I guess, then, that not only has Kerry gone three for three, but that y'all have called it wrong now three times in a row.
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Nash, whatever you say.
Elections to follow.
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Originally posted by Eagler
someone explain to skerry you can't do that in an economic recovery
yeah, lets RAISE the cost of biz while they are struggling to survive
good thing for me bad thing for you.
That works out just fine for me!
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Bush smoked him like a fatty.
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close debate?
you guys talking about tie color?
that was the only thing close tonite...
skerry's hot air empty promises vs bush's track record for the last 4 years
not close at all to me
skerry is the better public speaker as most salesmen are but they rarely make good leaders
I don't want a feel good car salesman to try to lead this country, it isn’t the bubble '90's were everyone is looking the other way while they get silly rich, we have ppl trying to take down major cities - we need someone conscious and focused at the wheel
another ...
LANDSLIDE BUSH!!
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If by that you mean Bush looked like he smoked a fatty before he stepped on stage, then I would agree with you wholeheartedly.
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I've done my best to be as unbiased and truthfull these last two weeks. Based on what I saw tonite I have to say this was a clear win for Bush by an above average margin.
Bush
articulated well
Was upbeat
Energetic
Positive
Had clearly defined goals
Kerry
Also articulated well
Was pasionate about some of his answers but,
He was downtrodden
said "this president" way to many times...AGAIN
Was on the defensive and wondered from the subject alot more than BUSH
but what beats all.....He came out with some info on his "plans" and I did not agree with him on them. Both Canidates got their good shots in. Both did well, but I think in this one Bush came out on top.
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For me, it was a close debate. It was held a few miles down the road from me. :)
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Originally posted by Nash
Well I guess, then, that not only has Kerry gone three for three, but that y'all have called it wrong now three times in a row.
sorry Nash your wrong on this one.
And I been pretty fair inthe last two.
scoring the first for kerry and the second a tie
Bush eeked out this one. not by alot but he got it
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
good thing for me bad thing for you.
That works out just fine for me!
did you hear Bush's answer?
EDUCATION
stay in school
don't worry about making 5.15 today
think about making 200k when you get out of college
stay in school, make gas money today, keep your head in the books and be a success the rest of your life where you will not be thinking about cash flow as you'll have more than enough
raising minimum wage does nothing but raise the cost of everything for everybody. yea you have $2 more a week but not $2 more of buying power
STUDY today, it'll pay off TOMORROW
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>>Elections to follow.
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Well not yet - there's always the October suprise, and the little thing that hits the news the weekend before the election. Cant wait to see those.
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Kerry won, no doubt. However he didn't hit the sucker out of the park. Too bad.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>Elections to follow.
<<
Well not yet - there's always the October suprise, and the little thing that hits the news the weekend before the election. Cant wait to see those.
Yea like the "documentary" on Kerry LOL
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Kerry won, no doubt. However he didn't hit the sucker out of the park. Too bad.
what world does the left live in???
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>>did you hear Bush's answer?
EDUCATION
stay in school
don't worry about making 5.15 today
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Did you do the math? 7 billion dollars for 10 million pell grants. You aint going much above 5.15 an hour with 1/2 semester of college. But don't fret - neither candidates numbers made any sense.
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I wish you could have heard the comments from my visitors, both Republicans...Bush looked "weasley" and did a poor job delivering his message.
Here's my Official Debate Score:
Bush did a better job than the first debate but not as good as the second. He relied on humor over substance in his arguements. His constant pounding of the podium during the debate was suppossed to enforce his "strong stance" on the issue, but instead gave me images of Mussolini. He failed to say anything new or substantive. He played it safe. Overall score B.
Kerry made an effective but decidedly low blow on Gay Marrage. He was a more effective speaker but failed to use it to his advantage. He made a couple good points, but did not say anything new. He played it safe. Overall score B+.
Both sides played it too close to the vest and were afraid to go for blood. This debate was a draw.
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Terry McAuliffe
why do I despise this guy so much? what a ****..
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Bush smoked him, per republicans, Kerry had a draw per democrats.
All that matters is Nov 2.
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Originally posted by rpm
Both sides played it too close to the vest and were afraid to go for blood. This debate was a draw.
Hey rpm, why have you seemed so much more reasoned as of late? I used to see your posts as pretty fanatic, but the last few days you have seemed a lot more reasonable.
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Originally posted by rpm
Both sides played it too close to the vest and were afraid to go for blood.
thats a pretty accurate discription.
Like I said before I dont think this will have any long term effects on the polls
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Just curious - on which point that wasn't all ready dipped in egg, dredged through flour and fried, did Bush "smoke " him?
I saw neither breaking new ground. I'd bet even money the polls show a draw. Guess we'll know soon.
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I had it even till Kerry brought up Cheney's daughter and from that point on it was all Bush.
So as I see it over all it's 1 1 1
1 Kerry win
1 tie
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I try to keep it on the same level as those I'm speaking with to illustrate my point. Sometimes I do go off the deep end, but it's only a response in kind to the thread.
Somebody call 911...I'm voting for 2 republicans in local elections.
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I had it even till Kerry brought up Cheney's daughter and from that point on it was all Bush.
So as I see it over all it's 1 1 1
1 Kerry win
1 tie
1 Bush win
But the only important one is the next one when the score will be Bush 2 kerry 0
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
Just curious - on which point that wasn't all ready dipped in egg, dredged through flour and fried, did Bush "smoke " him?
I saw neither breaking new ground. I'd bet even money the polls show a draw. Guess we'll know soon.
I think Bush broke new ground on the border issue.
He will score major points with latinos for bringing up that there is in fact a need for humainitarian concernes as well as security and economic.
I think that was a great grasp on the situation at the border.
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I guess I'm confused by what criteria you are using for calling "win/draw/lose".
For your own self? You are of course welcome to your opinion.
But are these calls how you think America in general saw it?
Every single indication will be, tomorrow, that Kerry took it yet again. Double-digit sized.
So.... When you say "Bush won", do you mean that "To me, I liked what he said and he won"... or are you seriously saying that this debate will go down in history as a Bush win?
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The criteria I use is how they respond and what they actually said. Here is my daughters take on the debate (uncoached by me, she must get it at school):
(http://www.lizking.com/debate4.jpg)
38 times she counted Kerry saying "Plan", but as she said, "he never said what the plan was". She watched for 45 minutes before she got bored (she is 12).
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The criteria I use is my opinion....nothing more. I failed Mindreading.
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>>He will score major points with latinos for bringing up that there is in fact a need for humainitarian concernes as well as security and economic.
<<
Hmm, he might want to forget that. Aside from outsourcing jobs, he wants to import cheap labor from Mexico? I don't know how you're going to float that past to the Americans working for 5.15 an hour and struggling only for benifits, not even higher pay - just some sort of security. Times get tough when you get a $700 pell grant to fund your entire college education.
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Originally posted by rpm
I failed Mindreading.
You must have a very strong woman.
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Originally posted by Nash
I guess I'm confused by what criteria you are using for calling "win/draw/lose".
For your own self? You are of course welcome to your opinion.
But are these calls how you think America in general saw it?
Every single indication will be, tomorrow, that Kerry took it yet again. Double-digit sized.
So.... When you say "Bush won", do you mean that "To me, I liked what he said and he won"... or are you seriously saying that this debate will go down in history as a Bush win?
If you are referring to a "true debate" wich I don't beleive these were then yes.....Kerry argued his points better than Bush did.
When I say Bush won I believe Bush matched kerry in quality of answers but not delivery.....Bush won on content. His answers are my answers:
Abortion
Gay Marriage amendment
Border
Health Care
Social Security
Minimum Wage
Education
All of these subjects he had better answers for.
It's the answers that matter to me....not how well you argue them. "this president" doesn't help you when you actually ARE President.
Just my opinion Nash....take it as you will.
:aok
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I think Kerry won the third debate. I do think Bush did very well on some of the questions. Suprisingly well but I still think Kerry overall had better more practical answers that I could understand and also performed better during the debate.
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:D
[size=20]LANDSLIDE BUSH!!![/SIZE]
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(LOL)
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I disagree MrCoffee....here's why.
During this debate and the last three almost all of Kerry's answers started out the same....."This president"
Eventually (and more so in this debate) he started working in "I have a plan"
Tonite I feel Kerry finally explained his plan(s) to the American People and I do not think they will work or are in our best interests.
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to be succesful in life you can't just sit in school and do nonthing. I am just lucky i have parents who will buy me what i need. many of the smart kids that i know come from poor families and they have to get a job to buy their stuff. You can't say this isn't true because i see it on a day to day basis. Raising mimium wage would help those majority buy their stuff. Also consider the parents.
Do you honestly think they want to pay for a kids gas for what 2 years? Espically with prices skyrocketing as it is. no way in hell! As it is i have had my GPA for Gas raised from like 3.5 to 3.8. I have never gotten that good and most likely wont. Closest i've gone was like 3.5 something. Also what do you think i do all summer? sit in front of this computer and watch you argue over presidents? It is called a summer job and it is my savior. Well besides the Anually camping trip to yellowstone area.
Point your parents can't pay for everything you do. you have got to take responsiblity to pay for your stuff. Like just today i lost my fuggin calculator and will have to pay for a new one. I will have to buy a new one unless i find it, which i wont. Waiting 6 weeks to make 15$ lousy dollars mowing lawns. please. Raising mimium wage would dramaticly improve my life. And also the lives of millions of others.
I find it pointless to just take money away from my parents that could be spending on say remodeling the house. Which we are in the process of doing. I should make my own money and not take away from my parents. That is called responsibility. You can be a lazy dope and do nonthing in HS. And go to college. But see there is another positive fo getting a job in HS. You might accutally be able to pay for college. I recently asked Rip how much it cost to go to the Univeristy of Washington. He said around 6000$ a year. If mimium wage was raise that could easily be met.
I see more benefits than bad things in raising it. People can pay off college loans easier. Get a head start in the money game. Improve living conditions.
Maybe i am the only one who sees it this way. Mimium wage raise would be better.
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btw Liz - that's a great drawing she did.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Tonite I feel Kerry finally explained his plan(s) to the American People and I do not think they will work or are in our best interests.
He explained it but he still has MAJOR problems explaining on how he is going to pay for all the stuff in his plan.
the most accurate thing said by either side was the difference in monies.
All these plans cost money and his plans dont include enough money from either taxes or savings combined to pay for them
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I'm gonna get on my bike and ride over to Tempe and try to get on camera.
Tune to Fox....I'm gonna be the naked guy with a pumpkin on my head jumping up and down behind Sean Hannity.
ps. don't look at my weiner
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
to be succesful in life you can't just sit in school and do nonthing. I am just lucky i have parents who will buy me what i need. many of the smart kids that i know come from poor families and they have to get a job to buy their stuff. You can't say this isn't true because i see it on a day to day basis. Raising mimium wage would help those majority buy their stuff. Also consider the parents.
Do you honestly think they want to pay for a kids gas for what 2 years? Espically with prices skyrocketing as it is. no way in hell! As it is i have had my GPA for Gas raised from like 3.5 to 3.8. I have never gotten that good and most likely wont. Closest i've gone was like 3.5 something. Also what do you think i do all summer? sit in front of this computer and watch you argue over presidents? It is called a summer job and it is my savior. Well besides the Anually camping trip to yellowstone area.
Point your parents can't pay for everything you do. you have got to take responsiblity to pay for your stuff. Like just today i lost my fuggin calculator and will have to pay for a new one. I will have to buy a new one unless i find it, which i wont. Waiting 6 weeks to make 15$ lousy dollars mowing lawns. please. Raising mimium wage would dramaticly improve my life. And also the lives of millions of others.
I find it pointless to just take money away from my parents that could be spending on say remodeling the house. Which we are in the process of doing. I should make my own money and not take away from my parents. That is called responsibility. You can be a lazy dope and do nonthing in HS. And go to college. But see there is another positive fo getting a job in HS. You might accutally be able to pay for college. I recently asked Rip how much it cost to go to the Univeristy of Washington. He said around 6000$ a year. If mimium wage was raise that could easily be met.
I see more benefits than bad things in raising it. People can pay off college loans easier. Get a head start in the money game. Improve living conditions.
Maybe i am the only one who sees it this way. Mimium wage raise would be better.
I don't know why I insist on attemping to open your eyes....but here goes.
You've been to a shopping mall right? well how about a supermarket? Gas station?
When large corporations...AND small business owners have to pay their employees more they do not eat this expense.
They pass it on to YOU the consumer.....and your PARENTS...consumers as well.
EVERYONE would be paying more for grocieries because Albertson's has to pay their teenage baggers more money.
People who don't even have minimum wage employees suffer as well because THEIR suppliers have to rais prices. This raises costs on EVERYTHING for just about EVERYONE.
SO that extra $20 a week they are now making them is eaten up by $100 in more expenses.
Minimum wage is just that MINIMUM! It's not intended for you to raise two kids on its to protect people from makeing a quarter an hour in a sweat shop.
Instead of helping poor people become even more poor Bush was sudgesting empowering them with new skills to earn better wages.....to keep kids from going through 4 years of High School to make $6 an hour cause they still can't read!
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The last time the minimum wage was raised gas was around .85 a gallon. Raising the minimun wage to keep up with the cost of living is just common sense.
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Tell me who has ever been able to live off of minimum wage. Minimum wage only benifits teenagers and illegals pretty much.
Why work for minimum wage if you can just get welfare?
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>>EVERYONE would be paying more for grocieries because Albertson's has to pay their teenage baggers more money.
<<
It amazes me how people get this with wage expenses but miss it with tax expenses. Who pays the wages in this country? THE CONSUMER. Who pays the taxes in this country? THE CONSUMER. Who consumes the most in this country? People making less than $60,000 a year.
So, you cannot increase taxes on businesses to help the poor guy - its just passed on. You cannot give poor people wage increases that they don't fund themselves. You cant say the wealthiest people in the country pay the most taxes- thats a lie. The consumers pay the taxes and they are not the welthiest- they are WalMart moms.
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Originally posted by rpm
The last time the minimum wage was raised gas was around .85 a gallon. Raising the minimun wage to keep up with the cost of living is just common sense.
I'd rather people not use mimum wage to pay for the costs of living.
Seriously
If an employer has 20 minimum wage employees on at all time for two shifts we just raised his operating costs by $20 an hour for 16 hours.
that's an extra $2240 a week
$8960 a Month
$107,520 a Year
Don't forget HIS suppliers have to give thier MW employees wages so now his supply costs went up.
So now he has an increase in supply costs AND labor costs
that's all from a one dollar an hour raise for everyone. Do you think he's gonna take that hit.....NOPE prices go up accross the board.
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Jesse Jackson is on Fox now. Ever notice how his eyes are very far apart? He looks like a bug-eyed fish or something. Other than that, I dislike his dumb arse.
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So... if we LOWER the minimum wage things will get cheaper? Get real.:rolleyes: If we pay Cops less will crime drop? We could afford to hire more.
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Raising mimium wage would help those majority buy their stuff. Also consider the parents
Try to pay attention. Raising the minimum wage would cause an increase in prices in many many goods and services because it would cost companies that much more to do business. Since goods and services will be more expensive, your pay raise will have gained you nothing in the form of buying power. It will have succeeded, however, in reducing the buying power of your parents' moneysince their salaries will not be raised(assuming they make more than the minimum)
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if we LOWER the minimum wage things will get cheaper?
To an extent, yes. If you cut the minimum wage in half, many goods would be much cheaper..one follows the other.
Do you not agree that cost of labor has an influence on how much a company charges for widgits?
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Originally posted by rpm
So... if we LOWER the minimum wage things will get cheaper? Get real.:rolleyes: If we pay Cops less will crime drop? We could afford to hire more.
No I don't think lowering the minimum wage will lower costs....employers would probably just enjoy the extra profit.
I don't think the opposite is true in this situation. More cops don't allways equal less crime....lower paid cops sometimes are less productive.
I think this is apples and oranges here.
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Originally posted by rpm
So... if we LOWER the minimum wage things will get cheaper? Get real.:rolleyes: If we pay Cops less will crime drop? We could afford to hire more.
why do we need a minimum wage? The market would regulate wages on it's own. The Mexican Illegals would be earning about 50 cents an hour if there was no minimum, all Americans would be getting paid fairly, as the market decides.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Jesse Jackson is on Fox now. Ever notice how his eyes are very far apart? He looks like a bug-eyed fish or something. Other than that, I dislike his dumb arse.
Could you understand what he was talking about? Rich people have better equipment?
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I'd give this one to Bush by a slight margin. Much better overall performance compared to his last two.
Going to be a close election. I'm near certain it'll go to the courts again.
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No I don't think lowering the minimum wage will lower costs....employers would probably just enjoy the extra profit.
Only the foolish ones, and then only briefly.
Think about it. If you have a widgit store on the corner and you are charging $2.00 per widget. Your retail location and factories are peopled by minimum wage people. The minimum wage is significantly lowered yet you keep your costs the same.
Within a very short time an enterprising fellow is going to open a widget store across the street and undercut your prices since he can afford to.
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Steve you are correct. Eventually competition OR capitalism would prevail
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I don't know why I insist on attemping to open your eyes....but here goes.
You've been to a shopping mall right? well how about a supermarket? Gas station?
When large corporations...AND small business owners have to pay their employees more they do not eat this expense.
They pass it on to YOU the consumer.....and your PARENTS...consumers as well.
EVERYONE would be paying more for grocieries because Albertson's has to pay their teenage baggers more money.
People who don't even have minimum wage employees suffer as well because THEIR suppliers have to rais prices. This raises costs on EVERYTHING for just about EVERYONE.
the same thing holds true for this so call "Tax on those earning over 200K"
do you really think they are going to absorb this tax?
these are the people who own and run the buisnesses.
Any time their costs go up. for ANY reason including taxes. They just pass it on down the line.
so yea you may get a bigger tax break due to the wealthy having to pay more but thats gonna be offset by the increase in prices
Sooo your just handing it right back.
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Minimum wage laws were enacted because corporations were not paying a "fair" wage...they still don't today. But, if they had not been enacted we would still have people working for less than $1 an hour.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
the same thing holds true for this so call "Tax on those earning over 200K"
do you really think they are going to absorb this tax?
these are the people who own and run the buisnesses.
Any time their costs go up. for ANY reason including taxes. They just pass it on down the line.
so yea you may get a bigger tax break due to the wealthy having to pay more but thats gonna be offset by the increase in prices
Sooo your just handing it right back.
I completly agree on the tax issues.
The bar I used to work at had property taxes raised on him by 10%
You should have heard the grumblings when the price of a bottle beer (domestic) went from $2.00 to $2.25
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Originally posted by Steve
To an extent, yes. If you cut the minimum wage in half, many goods would be much cheaper..one follows the other.
Do you not agree that cost of labor has an influence on how much a company charges for widgits?
Yea but if you got rid of the unions you could lower costs even more then if you lowered the minimum wage
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Rises in wages, in taxes for bussiness, decreases in wages , decreases in taxes for businesses, are nothing but the direction of a money loan. Raise wages ( or taxes for businesses), the consumer gets a loan which he will soon pay back in higher prices. Lower wages (or taxes for bussiness), and the consumer gives a loan, which hopefully will be paid back with lower prices.
Businesses are notoriously slow in paying back. Consumers have no choice but to pay back - everything goes up!
You cant unring the bell, but its time to stop all the loans and face the problems that come up without artificial wage or tax increases.
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Originally posted by rpm
Minimum wage laws were enacted because corporations were not paying a "fair" wage...they still don't today. But, if they had not been enacted we would still have people working for less than $1 an hour.
you think minimum wage is a fair wage?
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Put "effect change minimum wage" in Google and do a little reading.
I predict both sides in this current argument here will be somewhat suprised.
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Can anyone list an example of somone living off of minimum wage?
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Yea but if you got rid of the unions you could lower costs even more then if you lowered the minimum wage
Absolutely. Unions generate wages for skills that are simply not worth what the consumer, ultimately, pays for.
People can argue that unions ensure wages/benefits for the members. Sure they do, but these same people never bother to consider who pays for the wages/beneifts. Not the employers... but consumers..... themselves.
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BTW, Kerry the Great Hunter made himself look like a total maroon in my eyes on the Assault Weapon Ban.
Clueless doesn't begin to describe him.
Thank Cod we got rid of those bayonet lugs. I wonder if he even knows the actual elements the ban changed.
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>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
the same thing holds true for this so call "Tax on those earning over 200K"
do you really think they are going to absorb this tax?
these are the people who own and run the buisnesses.
Any time their costs go up. for ANY reason including taxes. They just pass it on down the line.
so yea you may get a bigger tax break due to the wealthy having to pay more but thats gonna be offset by the increase in prices
Sooo your just handing it right back.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I completly agree on the tax issues.
The bar I used to work at had property taxes raised on him by 10%
You should have heard the grumblings when the pice of a bottle beer (domestic) went from $2.00 to $2.25
<<
And when I said (about 3 months ago) that people making less than $60,000 a year pay the taxes in the country, I was regarded as nuts. I guess its pretty evident that although a business may write out the check for taxes or wages, he sure aint paying it out of his pocket- the consumer is, someone making less than $60,000 per year.
In spite of what any candidate tells you, they really don't want you *that* rich. Every ant pile needs worker ants. God forbid if the taxes couldn't be passed down (e.g. people just stopped buying frivilous depreciating things to get them through the boring work week). The consumer economy would colapse.
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Ok I went back and edited my earlier posts. I'll just be honest with what I think. I think after all the debates and threads that Kerry has a much better set of domestic agendas and plans. I think its actually impressive really. On the war on Terror and foreign diplomacy, Bush is strong in that department. I think the UN is not trust worthy and cant be depended on when it counts. The goals of the UN are too lofty for many of the coutries that are a part of the UN. I think Bushs domestic agenda is very weak though. Im somewhat sure that Kerry could provide better diplomacy than Bush but its more certain that Bush would go to war if needed. As a commaner in chief Kerry is untested and his vote in the first Gulf war doesnt give me confidence there. However as a young man, he did go to war and did serve so Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there and use his judgement. Thats how I feel about the two candidates.
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Bush wins
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Ok I went back and edited my earlier posts. I'll just be honest with what I think. I think after all the debates and threads that Kerry has a much better set of domestic agendas and plans. I think its actually impressive really. On the war on Terror and foreign diplomacy, Bush is strong in that department. I think the UN is not trust worthy and cant be depended on when it counts. The goals of the UN are too lofty for many of the coutries that are a part of the UN. I think Bushs domestic agenda is very weak though. Im somewhat sure that Kerry could provide better diplomacy than Bush but its more certain that Bush would go to war if needed. As a commaner in chief Kerry is untested and his vote in the first Gulf war doesnt give me confidence there. However as a young man, he did go to war and did serve so Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there and use his judgement. Thats how I feel about the two candidates.
[size=20]YOU KNOW NOTHING LITTLE MAN!!! TO THE DUNGEON!!![/SIZE]
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Ok I went back and edited my earlier posts. I'll just be honest with what I think. I think after all the debates and threads that Kerry has a much better set of domestic agendas and plans. I think its actually impressive really. On the war on Terror and foreign diplomacy, Bush is strong in that department. I think the UN is not trust worthy and cant be depended on when it counts. The goals of the UN are too lofty for many of the coutries that are a part of the UN. I think Bushs domestic agenda is very weak though. Im somewhat sure that Kerry could provide better diplomacy than Bush but its more certain that Bush would go to war if needed. As a commaner in chief Kerry is untested and his vote in the first Gulf war doesnt give me confidence there. However as a young man, he did go to war and did serve so Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there and use his judgement. Thats how I feel about the two candidates.
I actually thaught Kerry's "plans" that he's been talking about would be better.
I was disapointed that he needs to propose to spend 10 trillion dollars more that bush has and has no "plan" to actually pay for them
His other les costly ideas I flat out disagree with.
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liberal != math skills
especially when it comes to accounting on how they spend your money
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Originally posted by rpm
The last time the minimum wage was raised gas was around .85 a gallon. Raising the minimun wage to keep up with the cost of living is just common sense.
Its a tax increase on buisness both large and small period.
I would support it only if it was based on two things:
If you are over the age of 18, If you are under the age of 17 it stays the same. Raising it only makes it easier for them to quit school or fail to take school seriously
If you have children or dependants.
RPM I doubt that you can find a Mcdonalds or 7-11 that actually pays minimum wage. The business that do pay minimum wage are usualy the ones least likely to be able to afford paying more.
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Originally posted by NUKE
you think minimum wage is a fair wage?
Depending on the job. Yes
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interesting
Source
Pacific Research Institute (http://www.pacificresearch.org/press/opd/2004/opd_04-02-09sp.html)
"Kerry's Drug Policy Is Enough To Make Americans Quite Ill
by Sally C. Pipes
Sen. John Kerry punctuated his emergence as Democratic front-runner with a bold new drug plan that would supposedly lower prescription prices.
"I will repeal the ban on reimporting drugs from Canada," said Kerry to a packed audience in New Hampshire last week.
What Kerry left unsaid is that he wants America to import Canada's socialist price controls. Indeed, if Kerry's plan were enacted, it would almost surely backfire. Critical life-enhancing drugs would become less available -- and more expensive -- for Canadians and Americans alike.
In Canada, the government strictly controls drug pricing -- creating artificial, below-market prices that don't reflect actual costs. The Patented Medicines Prices Review Board also determines which drugs get on the Canadian formulary. U.S. companies -- which develop the vast majority of cutting-edge drugs -- are unable to sell to Canada at market prices. So they are faced with a choice. They can either sell to Canadians at a discount, or not sell at all.
Because Canada is one-tenth the size of the U.S. market, selling to Canadians at a discount is more a nuisance than a deal-breaker. However, what can't happen is for everyone to get a discount. If U.S. pharmaceutical corporations see their drugs returning en masse to the U.S. at Canada's below-market prices, they will respond by refusing to sell drugs to Canada altogether.
This is already beginning to happen. As more Americans use the Internet to illegally buy drugs from Canada, companies such as Pfizer, Lilly and GlaxoSmithKline are now limiting their Canadian shipments.
Sadly, this means fewer advanced drugs for Canadians.
Run For The Border
Today, many Canadians travel south for life-enhancing drugs that are simply unavailable in Canada. Some are available in one province but not another. Examples include Embrel and Remicade for arthritis, Reyataz for AIDS, and Glucophage 2 for diabetes. From 1999 to 2001, of the 100 drugs that came on the market in the U.S., only 43 made it on the Canadian formulary.
That's why David MacKay, head of the Canadian International Pharmacy Association -- which represents Canada's 25 largest Internet pharmacists -- isn't so keen on the idea of opening Canada's price-control utopia to a flood of American consumers. He says the firms he represents don't want to build their business on the "backs of Canadians."
If Kerry's plan were actually implemented, and America tried to piggyback on Canada's price controls, it would create an unprecedented health care disaster not just in Canada, but in the U.S. as well.
American companies spend an average of $800 million to develop a new drug. They must be able to recoup this investment, which is why the price of a drug is so much higher than the simple cost of manufacturing a pill. Apparently, Kerry has overlooked the unseen cost of research and development.
Politicians love to give away "free" stuff. But beyond the tax-subsidized fantasy world of Washington, D.C. -- where real companies go belly up everyday -- it's not possible to fill America's medicine cabinets at below-market prices.
Tangled Up In Rules
Think of the airlines and discount seats. If everyone were to fly in the heavily discounted seats, pretty soon there would be no seats available because the airline could not afford to fly. All passengers would lose. The same is true in the drug industry. "Cheap drugs" are good politics, but lousy economics.
Another key problem with importing Canada's system is that price controls create bureaucracy. The last thing America needs is to get bogged down in Canada's fever swamp of rules and regulations.
Many life-saving drugs aren't available at all in Canada simply because of an overabundance of red tape. For example, approval of AIDS drugs take twice as long in Canada as in the U.S.
Kerry should also note that drugs in Canada aren't always even less expensive. He claims that prescription prices in Canada "can be 30 to 80% lower for the same drug." But this is misleading, as he's talking about only nongeneric drugs.
Recent FDA research finds that Americans buying drugs from Canada may pay a lot more for their pharmaceuticals than they would if they had simply bought the generic version in the U.S. In fact, a 2001 Canadian study concluded that 75% of the 27 most popular generic drugs were actually significantly cheaper in the U.S. One good example is the cost of generic Prozac -- $13.19 for 100 20-milligram pills in the U.S. The next lowest price in any other nation is an exorbitant $49.78.
That's the reality of socialist medicine. Before Kerry turns his initiative into a platform, he should call someone in Canada who's suffering from AIDS, Hepatitis C or arthritis. Take it from me -- a Canadian -- America doesn't want Canada's price controls . . . at any cost. "
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stop confusing the issue with facts
especially facts against skerry and his "PLAN"
LOL
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who won? kerrie absolutely had to show the country that he has changed since before he started running for prez..
He had to show that he is not a flaming tax and spend liberal like he was up until he accepted the nomination from the democrats. and that what he is telling blacks and women and gays while on the stump is just hot air to appease them. He really isn't a liberal socialist black minister who favors all types of abortion and wants a one world government and socialized medicine.
he needs that because... if both candidates take all the states that they currently lead in and kerrie takes every state that he is very weak in AND takes all the states that are dead even.... kerrie will lose to Bush's 285 or so electorial votes.
The democratic headquarters is sending out fliers asking for donations for the legal fees for the anticipated legal battles over recounts that they will insist on. There is no limit to how much an individual or organization can contribute to such a fund.
lazs
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Originally posted by Eagler
stop confusing the issue with facts
especially facts against skerry and his "PLAN"
LOL
LOL, at least Kerry has a set of domestic plans. Whats Bushs domestic plan?
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I personaly think in todays world, it takes a man who has served and seen combat first hand to be a good commander in chief. Not just someone who says "they are evil". Then attacks.
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
I personaly think in todays world, it takes a man who has served and seen combat first hand to be a good commander in chief. Not just someone who says "they are evil". Then attacks.
who did you have in mind??
LOL
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John Kerry
:aok :aok :aok
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
LOL, at least Kerry has a set of domestic plans. Whats Bushs domestic plan?
"A littaney (SP) of complaints is not a plan" ;)
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And you know, when Kerry wins the election. He will have plently of top brass military people advising him as well.
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
And you know, when Kerry wins the election. He will have plently of top brass military people advising him as well.
you sound sure of yourself ... may I direct you to my bet for the left thread?
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whoa?
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
LOL, at least Kerry has a set of domestic plans. Whats Bushs domestic plan?
The only problem with Kerry's domestic plans other then the ones that wont work outright as noted above is the fact his math doesnt add up.
He has no way to pay for them
Kinda like when you were a kid and saying "when I grow up Im gonna own a Ferrari"
Then when your an adult you realise you cant afford a ferrari so you settle on a Hugo.
The ferarri plan sounded good but it was nothing more then a dream that in reality you couldnt carry out.
Same thing with Kerrys so called plan.
sounds great on the surface. But when it gets right down to it. Its just a Dream he wont be able to carry out.
Basically he is making promises on dreams he cant keep because he has no way to pay for them.
I seem to remember Clinton making a promise for healthcare also. Was a big selling point in his initial election.
Never did manage to get it done
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Alot of the talk in this election has had to do with the economy
Here is a report just released today
Source- Free market Project (http://www.freemarketproject.org/specialreports/2004/jobs_study/sr20041014exec_sum.asp)
Special Report
Free Market Project
October 14, 2004
One Economy, Two Spins
Economic Conditions Portrayed as Positive
During Clinton Presented as Negative for Bush
Executive Summary
The media gave President Bush consistently negative press about perceived poor job creation and unemployment in the summer of 2004 but their reports were overwhelmingly positive when President Clinton ran for reelection in the summer of 1996 under similar economic circumstances. The media have consistently criticized the Bush record, minimizing 13 straight months of positive job creation, more than 1.5 million new jobs in 2004 and an unemployment rate that dropped from 6.3 percent to 5.4 percent. In contrast, the media consistently hailed the Clinton record of seven straight months of positive job creation, more than 2 million jobs in 1996 and an unemployment rate that dropped from 5.8 percent to 5.2 percent.
The analysis was completed by the Media Research Center’s Free Market Project. It focused on TV news coverage the day of or newspaper coverage the day after the release of unemployment and job creation reports during the summer reelection season in 1996 and 2004. (The 10 EMPLOYMENT SITUATION reports, five from May through September each year, came out the month following their survey date.) FMP researchers analyzed ABC, NBC and CBS, CNN, The Washington Post and The New York Times. Their findings include:
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Clinton Good; Bush Bad: Stories about jobs during Bill Clinton’s reelection campaign were positive 85 percent of the time – more than six times as often as they were for Bush, despite similar economic data. Reporters praised the Clinton unemployment rate of 5.6 percent as “low,” but they downplayed a 5.4 percent rate under Bush and called job growth “anemic.”
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Good News Becomes Bad News: Under Bush, reporters presented good economic data as bad news stories by minimizing positive achievements and emphasizing people who might be out of work or regions of the U.S. that were still “struggling.” The opposite approach was taken under President Clinton. Then, reporters explained away a 0.2 percent rise in unemployment as minor or, “not necessarily bad news.”
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Ignoring Job Impact from the 9/11 Attacks: The media we examined never quantified the more than one million jobs that were lost due to the 9/11 attacks. Only six of the stories dealing with jobs during the study period (13 percent) discussed terrorism or 9/11. No story detailed the enormous job losses as a result of the attacks.
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CNN the Best; CBS the Worst: No network has been consistent in its coverage of Clinton and Bush. CNN did the best job covering jobs and unemployment. The network was balanced in its coverage of the Clinton economy and did characterize one month under Bush as positive. CBS was the most unbalanced in its coverage. After the five Employment Situation reports in the summer of 2004, the network didn’t find any good news to report. CBS didn’t air any negative job creation and unemployment stories during the Clinton months. CBS Evening News anchor Dan Rather merits criticism. He handled an unemployment increase during Clinton by downplaying it. Then the reporter covering the story claimed it wasn’t even bad news.
The Free Market Project offers a series of recommendations for the media in an effort to help journalists provide more balanced reporting on unemployment and job issues. Those recommendations include:
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Urging the media to report stories that actually reflect the data and to find a consistent way to cover the monthly release of labor data so that it isn’t spun any direction.
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Encouraging the media to help the public understand unemployment rates and job creation.
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Suggesting the media find a way to make balanced news coverage an ongoing priority.
Along with these recommendations, this study includes a commentary by Dr. Gary Wolfram, a George Munson Professor of Political Economy at Hillsdale College. Wolfram explains that the media should look at the existing employment picture from a more informed view and understand “when one compares the current unemployment rate of 5.4% to historical levels, it is quite low.”
See Full study (http://www.freemarketproject.org/specialreports/2004/jobs_study/sr20041014.asp)