Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on October 13, 2004, 11:01:51 PM
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For those favoring the privatization of Social Security...
What do you propose for those who take their money out of SS and lose it thru no fault of their own...i.e another Enron or Lincoln Savings?
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The same thing they're going to get eventually without privatization.......... nothing.
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I don't think Social Security will ever totally fail. Too many votes to be lost. Congress will always bail it out.
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Ah.. so the government will just chip in more bucks to replace the lost money if SS can't pay the benefits to the current crop of young workers when they retire.
OK... great system.
Guess they could do that for failed privatized accounts too, huh? Probably be less because some privatized accounts would probably make it.
Oh wait..... it's ALWAYS a BAD THING to give a taxpayer any kind of control over money he pays to the government for his future benefit. My bad.
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No Toad, before SS seniors were literally out in the cold. It has always been designed as a safety net and never to be the end all solution. But you are drifting from the topic.
If we do nothing, then we will have a whole new class of people on welfare (if they qualify). So they become a drain on society. How is that a good thing?
Remember I prefaced this by saying they lost their retirement savings thru no fault of their own (other than withdrawing from SS).
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First of all, there's no proposal on the table to allow anyone to take ALL their money out. Just some.
Second, I personally believe the SS system as it is now will not, cannot work in the same fashion for folks that are new or recent enrollees when they eventually retire.
In other words, SS change is inevitable. Now, what would I prefer in that event? The government just keep raking in the dough and the sheared sheep still get no input? Or a small amount of money is put in "individual accounts" that the payee can self-direct as investments for retirement?
Ah......... gee.... lemme think on that for a while.. OK, I got it.
Let's give the poor bastige some of his own money to invest for retirement and let it be in his name.
Seems pretty fair to me.
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So then Social Security is a good thing and we cannot trust people to handle all of their money. I say we don't allow them to speculate. A bird in the hand beats a pig in a poke.
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the "privatization of Social Security..."
the proposals for " privatization of Social Security..." only let you move 2%or3% of your social security tax to a private fund.
the " privatization of Social Security..." is a fear tactic of the liberals to get old people to vote democratic.
SS will never run out of money, the surplus is and has always been invested in govt intrest bearing bonds, when there is a short fall in SS taxes they can start cashing in the bonds, if the bonds run out why then they can always tax the "rich"
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I suspect those who want privatization view it as a means of adding a ton of extra money to the stock market. People already invested would benefit nicely.
Problem is, what happens when the stock market crashes? Do we just leave millions of retirees out in the cold? Hmm...seems to me that SS was created specifically to prevent that sort of thing, after the country learned the lessons of just how reliable the stock market is in '29.
J_A_B
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SS returns less the 2% annually,
The market has never in it's history returned less the 5% in any 5 yare period.
The Priv't SS would be 2-3% of the 7% you now pay, matched by you employer 7%, it would be put into restricted funds, not anything you wanted, and it would be for a specific age group.
Which screws us late 30 to 40's year olds we will not have enough time to enjoy the higher rate of return long enough, and be forced to suck from the teat of the SS gov't system.
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It's loopholes that kill SS. There is a city here with a large brazilian population, they work different jobs with different ID's, that of their grandparents and uncles. They work long enough so each elderly member can collect SS. I'm not sure exactly how they are doing it, but I have heard this from several people. I'm sure there are other ways they do it too.
In the P.O. we have FERS(federal employees retirement system), they match you dollar for dollar up to 5% of your base pay that you save. It can be put into different funds that go from no risk(bonds) to high risk(S&P) and you can divide it up different ways. I would like to see this in place for the public as well and scrap SS.
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Bush borrrowed 3 trillion from SS last year. Think he will pay intrest on that? Neat how that money..borrowed from the goverment, doenst count against the deficit.
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Originally posted by rpm
For those favoring the privatization of Social Security...
What do you propose for those who take their money out of SS and lose it thru no fault of their own...i.e another Enron or Lincoln Savings?
if you invest it and you lose it whose fault is it but your own?
now the question should be something like " are too stupid to handle their own money...", then, yes, there should be the option for those morons to continue to take the chance that their money will grow at a whopping 2% and hopefully be there for them when they retire
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Social Security has gone from ensuring food for the elderly to some kiind of half-assed retirement plan. That is not what it was for, and not what it should be.
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"Bush borrrowed 3 trillion from SS last year. "
I'd like to see the math that came up with that figure. $3 trillion is larger than the entire federal budget. Do you have a link?
J_A_B
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JAB, quit asking for facts, you will give them a headache.
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I'd give him more than 60 seconds to reply Lizzie.
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Why?
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So he has time to get online and read the question maybe?
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What fun is that? If you are going to spew nonsense, you should at least make an attempt to source the info.
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Not really trying to give "them" a headache. I don't really take sides in this political stuff; I don't consider myself to be either Republican or Democrat.
I'm just wondering--genuinely curious--as to how somebody came up with such a massive figure. It has to be based on some sort of projections and that's what I'd like to see.
I am not trying to question whether the US governent is sucking money out of SS; it's been doing that since the '50's so I just assume that part is accurate (government greed combined with a naive setup for SS is largely why SS is in the state it's in to begin with). $3 trillion is such a big figure it just sort of jumped out of the page at me.
US government's current budget is roughly $2.4 trillion, and that includes a $500 billion deficit.
J_A_B