Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Scootter on October 15, 2004, 02:28:34 PM
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We have Mrs. H. Clinton to thank for the shortage of flu shots, here why.
The Children Vaccine program developed by the former administration (seamed like a good idea) has caused drug manufactures to stop manufacturing vaccines due to low or no profit and high cost of litigation.
http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1G1:13839616&refid=ink_puballmags&skeyword=&teaser=
We now must buy much of our vaccines from overseas and the current problem with the flu shots is just the beginning.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0%2C1249%2C565037411%2C00.html
http://www.whale.to/a/drugc.html
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040629-063134-5244r
Yet another reason to keep the Government out of the health care business and to push for tort reform.
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Yeah well, I thought it was from the unncessary amounts of flu shots given to those who don't need them.
Last years "big flu scare", yeah - **** that and those *******s that perpetrated that scare. Got talked into getting shot up with that stupid ****ing vaccine - sickest I've ever been off of the flu.
Nuts to those flu vaccines, they didn't help my bellybutton one bit. Nevar forgit teh floo haxxine!
-SW
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This thread almost belongs in the medicboy thread because I feel about this the same way I did in the other thread.
Litigation needs to be capped....pure and simple, but I can bet you that won't happen if certain people get elected...but let's not diverge from this thread on that issue. Litigation is killing this country. Malpractice lawsuits have gotten out of hand, and until it is regulated nothing about costs can be corrected.
I for one don't believe research and other associated costs involved increating vaccines are justifiable. Sure...research can cost millions, and we all know who really funds that, not the companies, but us, the taxpayers.
The federal government hands out so much money for research it's sickening. Having dealt with the CDC, I can tell you that is one agency run poorly.
Maybe it's a good thing that we have a shortage this year...and maybe next year too. Maybe the worlds population is getting a little out of hand. Hell, I don't even know how I feel about the human race anymore or whether I give a damn. I just know I'm sick and tired of abuse, and a big abuser of funds are those who work in some form or capacity in medicine.
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Originally posted by Goth
The federal government hands out so much money for research it's sickening. Having dealt with the CDC, I can tell you that is one agency run poorly.
Having family members in the drug industry I can say that the amount of money the government contributes to research is extremely low and comes with many strings attached.
It is at the whim of both houses and is mostly attached as pork to bills that never get passed. The government controls places on what is researched are extreme and must meet both approval and political whim.
As it takes an average of 10 years to bring a drug to market and 80 percent of drugs are never approved or developed you can see how funding is neither full or constant.
This country develops over 75 percent of the world’s new drugs and this is due to the capitalist drive to invest in a potential profit, take that away and new drugs stop. The government funds only a fraction of any new development.
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Originally posted by Scootter
Originally posted by Goth
The federal government hands out so much money for research it's sickening. Having dealt with the CDC, I can tell you that is one agency run poorly.
Having family members in the drug industry I can say that the amount of money the government contributes to research is extremely low and comes with many strings attached.
It is at the whim of both houses and is mostly attached as pork to bills that never get passed. The government controls places on what is researched are extreme and must meet both approval and political whim.
As it takes an average of 10 years to bring a drug to market and 80 percent of drugs are never approved or developed you can see how funding is neither full or constant.
This country develops over 75 percent of the world’s new drugs and this is due to the capitalist drive to invest in a potential profit, take that away and new drugs stop. The government funds only a fraction of any new development.
So the researchers are in this only for the money? Is that what I am getting from your post?
Let's not kid each other. Take a simple pill like Prozac. It's a chemical twist on the old game, and then it is marketed like the new age drug.
I see more damn commercials on TV than I can shake a stick at. Why's that? Who is their target audience? Am I supposed to tell a doctor, a man who in all likelyhood spent 8 yrs in school to learn chemistry that I think this drug will work for me?
Drug research is a pure money making scheme, and I bet you if it was properly regulated like it should be, we would still have the same medications today without all the hype. Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining, the drug companies are in this strictly for the money, not to help their fellow man.
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Do you feel tired, have anxiety issues, possible heart palpitations, hemerrhoids, dry skin, mood swings, abdominal gas, or a constant fear of falling?
Then maybe BULL**** is right for you. BULL**** has been clinically proven to stop these symptons. Ask your doctor if BULL**** is right for you. Warning BULL**** might **** up your brain, and has been shown to produce constant stomach irritation. Side effects may include ****ting uncontrollably, bloating, vomitting, heart attack, stroke, and in some rare cases death.
So ask your doctor if BULL**** is right for you today.
-SW
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tad devin, a heinz-kerry advisor, said it's bush's fault we have no flu shots.
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Why exactly would you need a "flu shot"?
It's only created against one influence and before the particular influence even comes to the country, it might have already mutated to something which the flu shot can't stop.
...and that one virus is not the only one.
Of course depending on the shot, it could also include some other types that might never come or might with a good chance also be mutated.
Waste of money if you ask me.
I'd only give those to people with poor health or such condition, which might make a flu very uncomfortable for the person.
Even then it's 50/50 or so.
For a healthy person it's not necessary.
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fishu, thats true,while anyone can get a shot they are normaly only recomended for small children and elderly people with health problems. i have never had a flu shot.
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US pharma companies have marketing budgets as big as their research ones.
Yes, the drug and insurance companies love to press the cost of litigation.
Capping the amount paid out in tort litigation is a stupid idea, unless you also cap the amount drugs cost.
If you want a fair system, eliminate jury awards from civil cases. Let a professional decide how much the drug and insurance companies should pay. You'll then still have the large awards in cases of gross negligence and criminal culpability: after all, as has already been pointed out, the window for a drug during which they can rape the market with their monopoly is 5-7 years. There's tremendous pressure in pharma corps to get their products to market, and not to run into any snafus with say the FDA. People can and do try to "Bend the rules" from time to time. If they do, they should be crucified.
I'm sorry, I've got no sympathy for the poor ailing drug and insurance companies in this country. The argument that unless we ensure a healthy profit to drug companies, our basic health needs will suffer is perverse: we're already ensuring a healthy profit, drug and health costs are skyrocketing, and the blame is being put on tort laws?
From what I've seen in the last four years, the Government running the Health Care Business is a hell of a lot better idea than the Health Care Business running the Government.
Although, to be honest, we need to reform the greedy lot of both.
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Screw their friggen flu shots. Took one and have never been so sick in my life. Never again.
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My immune system kicks ass. Why? Vitamins, water, and common sense. I laugh at killer flu.
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Originally posted by Dinger
From what I've seen in the last four years, the Government running the Health Care Business is a hell of a lot better idea than the Health Care Business running the Government.
Xactly, cuz you can always vote them out for being inept.
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Originally posted by Dinger
US pharma companies have marketing budgets as big as their research ones.
Yes, the drug and insurance companies love to press the cost of litigation.
Capping the amount paid out in tort litigation is a stupid idea, unless you also cap the amount drugs cost.
If you want a fair system, eliminate jury awards from civil cases. Let a professional decide how much the drug and insurance companies should pay. You'll then still have the large awards in cases of gross negligence and criminal culpability: after all, as has already been pointed out, the window for a drug during which they can rape the market with their monopoly is 5-7 years. There's tremendous pressure in pharma corps to get their products to market, and not to run into any snafus with say the FDA. People can and do try to "Bend the rules" from time to time. If they do, they should be crucified.
I'm sorry, I've got no sympathy for the poor ailing drug and insurance companies in this country. The argument that unless we ensure a healthy profit to drug companies, our basic health needs will suffer is perverse: we're already ensuring a healthy profit, drug and health costs are skyrocketing, and the blame is being put on tort laws?
From what I've seen in the last four years, the Government running the Health Care Business is a hell of a lot better idea than the Health Care Business running the Government.
Although, to be honest, we need to reform the greedy lot of both.
BRAVO! Well said.
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Originally posted by Dinger
From what I've seen in the last four years, the Government running the Health Care Business is a hell of a lot better idea than the Health Care Business running the Government.
Although, to be honest, we need to reform the greedy lot of both.
Fair enough, and a nice sound bite, but answer me this, The government can pass laws to reform the greedy drug companies but how are the drug companies going to reform the greedy government?
hmmmm
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Flu vaccines are not part of the childhood vaccine program. The main reason for the flu vaccine shortage is unpredictable demand and inability to stockpile vaccines from year to year to smooth out supply. Because flu strains change yearly, manufacturer must destroy unused doses at the end of the year, which eats into profits. For example, in the 10 years before last year, manufacturers typically destroyed 10 million unused doses of vaccines yearly. In other words, there were plenty of vaccines.
Last year though, early publicity predicting an especially severe flu seasons caused unexpectedly high demand. This year the loss of one manufacturer has cut into supplies and the publicity over a shortage seems to be creating an increase in demand, which nobody predicted.
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Some facts:
Epidemics of influenza typically occur during the winter months in temperate regions and have been responsible for an average of approximately 36,000 deaths/year in the United States during 1990--1999 (1). Influenza viruses also can cause pandemics, during which rates of illness and death from influenza-related complications can increase worldwide. Influenza viruses cause disease among all age groups (2--4). Rates of infection are highest among children, but rates of serious illness and death are highest among persons aged >65 years and persons of any age who have medical conditions that place them at increased risk for complications from influenza (2,5--7).
Vaccination with inactivated influenza vaccine is recommended for the following persons who are at increased risk for complications from influenza: Vaccination with inactivated influenza vaccine is recommended for the following persons who are at increased risk for complications from influenza:
persons aged >65 years;
residents of nursing homes and other chronic-care facilities that house persons of any age who have chronic medical conditions;
adults and children who have chronic disorders of the pulmonary or cardiovascular systems, including asthma;
adults and children who have required regular medical follow-up or hospitalization during the preceding year because of chronic metabolic diseases (including diabetes mellitus), renal dysfunction, hemoglobinopathies, or immunosuppression (including immunosuppression caused by medications or by human immunodeficiency virus [HIV]);
children and adolescents (aged 6 months--18 years) who are receiving long-term aspirin therapy and, therefore, might be at risk for experiencing Reye syndrome after influenza infection;
women who will be pregnant during the influenza season; and
children aged 6--23 months.
In 2000, approximately 73 million persons in the United States were included in one or more of these target groups, including 35 million persons aged >65 years, 12 million adults aged 50--64 years, 18 million adults aged 18--49 years, and 8 million children aged 6 months--17 years with one or more medical conditions that are associated with an increased risk for influenza-related complications (125).
... think of the others:
Persons who are clinically or subclinically infected can transmit influenza virus to persons at high risk for complications from influenza. Decreasing transmission of influenza from caregivers and household contacts to persons at high risk might reduce influenza-related deaths among persons at high risk. Evidence from two studies indicates that vaccination of health-care personnel is associated with decreased deaths among nursing home patients (119,120). Health-care workers should be vaccinated against influenza annually. Facilities that employ heath-care workers are strongly encouraged to provide vaccine to workers by using approaches that maximize immunization rates. This will protect health-care workers, their patients, and communities, and will improve prevention, patient safety, and reduce disease burden. Health-care workers' influenza immunization rates should be regularly measured and reported. Although rates of health-care worker vaccination are typically <40%, with moderate effort, organized campaigns can attain higher rates of vaccination among this population (118).
In addition to the groups for which annual influenza vaccination is recommended, physicians should administer influenza vaccine to any person who wishes to reduce the likelihood of becoming ill with influenza (the vaccine can be administered to children >6 months), depending on vaccine availability (see Influenza Vaccine Supply). Persons who provide essential community services should be considered for vaccination to minimize disruption of essential activities during influenza outbreaks. Students or other persons in institutional settings (e.g., those who reside in dormitories) should be encouraged to receive vaccine to minimize the disruption of routine activities during epidemics.
Source :Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5306a1.htm)
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As for Fishus simplification:
Both the inactivated and live, attenuated vaccines prepared for the 2004–05 season will include A/Fujian/411/2002 (H3N2)-like, A/New Caledonia/20/99 (H1N1)-like, and B/Shanghai/361/2002-like antigens. For the A/Fujian/411/2002 (H3N2)-like antigen, manufacturers may use the antigenically equivalent A/Wyoming/3/2003 (H3N2) virus, and for the B/Shanghai/361/2002-like antigen, manufacturers may use the antigenically equivalent B/Jilin/20/2003 virus or B/Jiangsu/10/2003 virus. These viruses will be used because of their growth properties and because they are representative of influenza viruses likely to circulate in the United States during the 2004–05 influenza season. Because circulating influenza A (H1N2) viruses are a reassortant of influenza A (H1N1) and (H3N2) viruses, antibody directed against influenza A (H1N1) and influenza (H3N2) vaccine strains will provide protection against circulating influenza A (H1N2) viruses. Influenza viruses for both the inactivated and live attenuated influenza vaccines are initially grown in embryonated hens' eggs. Thus, both vaccines might contain limited amounts of residual egg protein.
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Flu? I laught at it cos I am rocks.
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Originally posted by Scootter
Fair enough, and a nice sound bite, but answer me this, The government can pass laws to reform the greedy drug companies but how are the drug companies going to reform the greedy government?
hmmmm
Lobbyist's
shamus
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Just FYI
It is MANDATORY for US Military Active Duty to get Flu Shots.
I for one preferr not to because I really don't know/trust what they are putting in the things.
Plus I allways get super sick afterwords even though they say that's not supposed to happen.
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Just read on the news that a norwegian woman age 40 died two days after taking a flu shot, and they are investigating to find out if it was related as they suspect.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Just FYI
It is MANDATORY for US Military Active Duty to get Flu Shots.
I for one preferr not to because I really don't know/trust what they are putting in the things.
Plus I allways get super sick afterwords even though they say that's not supposed to happen.
I haven't had the flu in 10 years. As for that anthrax series, well, that's another story altogether. :eek: