Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MRPLUTO on October 15, 2004, 10:34:15 PM
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I hope that HTC will concentrate on bombers, although I've read they require much more work to develop than fighters. Nevertheless:
Priority should be given to:
Heinkel He-111H-3
Petlyakov Pe-2
S.M. 79
Mitsubishi G4M2 Betty
I know we don't really need another American bomber, but it would be nice to have something besides the Ar-234 to spend buff perks on. So, I vote for the
B-29 Superfortress (nukes not included)
Other bombers:
Ju-87D-5 (the Stuka with 2 x 37mm)
Bristol Blenheim IV
Vickers Wellington
Ju-52
North American B-25C Mitchell
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We need more early war fighters, not more uberplanes.
I'd give priority to:
P-39 N & Q
Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa / Oscar
Lockheed P-38 E or F
Mig-3, Yak-1, or Yak 3
Other fighters:
Me-410
Bristol Beaufighter
F2A Brewster Buffalo
Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki / Tojo
Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu / Nick
Dewoitine D. 520
Polikarpov I-16 Rata
The Heinkel He-219 and North American P-61 Black Widow are very popular choices, but they are both night fighters, and until Aces High has night combat events with friendly icons only (that is, no enemy icons), I'd wait on them.
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As for GVs, I'd suggest the Sherman, the Churchill, and some kind of self-propelled artillery, 105mm size.
MRPLUTO
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Looks good to me. :D
except the b-29 :)
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Finally a good list of planes.
But Brewster and Blenheim first.:D
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I hope that HTC will concentrate on bombers, although I've read they require much more work to develop than fighters.
Great List! WE definately need bombers for sure and I agree. Even the Ju52 IMO is needed. Totally ruins any immersion to look at a formation of 109's escorting a C47.
Here is a partial list covering just early war fighters I came up with to complement your bombers.
For the Early fighters:
The VVS is vastly underepresented.
I-16
Lagg-3
Mig 3
All very welcome additions.
Luftwaffe additions:
FW-190A3 (early FW-190A)
Bf-109G6 (1943 model) - AFAIK the Bf-109G6 we have represents July'44 and later. It is unfair for the most numerically produced 109 to represent a '44 plane matching up in a 1943 set up IMHO. At the same time there is a large performance difference between the '44 G6 and a '43 G6. The '44 G6 certainly needs to be available and introduced to maintain balance.
Bf-109G14
USAAF
P39 (could double for VVS)
P47C
P38F or G
RAF
Early fighters are covered well for the RAF AFAIK.
Beaufighter?
IJNAF/IJAAF
Oscar (IJAAF)
Not a perfect list. Just my thoughts.
Crumpp
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I think the pre-1944 era needs much better representation - that was the most interesting part of the war. But as long as the MA remains the main focus then many of these planes just won't see use - so some late-war planes should keep being added.
There are many variants of existing planes that could certainly help (P47B, 109K, P40N, P38D, etc.). As far as new plane models, I'd love to see:
P-39D & N
B-25 (incl. the G or H ground attack version)
Buffalo
He-111
Beaufighter
Firefly
Lagg-3
Mig-3
Yak-3
Pe-2
Ki-43 Oscar
Betty
Ki-44
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Originally posted by MRPLUTO
Priority should be given to:
Heinkel He-111H-3
Petlyakov Pe-2
S.M. 79
Mitsubishi G4M2
I know we don't really need another American bomber, but it would be nice to have something besides the Ar-234 to spend buff perks on. So, I vote for the
B-29 Superfortress (nukes not included)
Other bombers:
Ju-87D-5 (the Stuka with 2 x 37mm)
Bristol Blenheim IV
Vickers Wellington
Ju-52
North American B-25C
=====================================
We need more early war fighters, not more uberplanes.
I'd give priority to:
P-39 N & Q
Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa / Oscar
Lockheed P-38 E or F
Mig-3, Yak-1, or Yak 3
Other fighters:
Me-410
Bristol Beaufighter
F2A Brewster Buffalo
Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki / Tojo
Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu / Nick
Dewoitine D. 520
Polikarpov I-16 Rata
The Heinkel He-219 and North American P-61 Black Widow are very popular choices, but they are both night fighters, and until Aces High has night combat events with friendly icons only (that is, no enemy icons), I'd wait on them.
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As for GVs, I'd suggest the Sherman, the Churchill, and some kind of self-propelled artillery, 105mm size.
MRPLUTO
Great list MrPluto,
I would like to add the F6f-3 and the P38-J models. As for the French Dewoitine D. 520, I would really like to see this plane in AH, here is a link on a lil history of the D520
French Dewoitine D. 520 bit of history (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Dewoitine%20D.520)
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That's a very well thought out list :)
The only thing I would add/change, is the D4Y Suisei (Judy)
This mid war CV strike plane would be a good addition in my opinion, becuase as it stands now, the only CV strike planes that we have are the 1940-41 D3A and B5N, which don't stand a chance against US planes in a carrier duel.
While the D4Y retains a limited bombload, is it much faster than any Carrier strike plane in the current inventory, and would give the Japanese a fighting chance in mid-late war Carrier battles.
-Sik
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I would like to see these
P39Q
P40N
B25
Ju188
betty
Ki44
Ki 102 w/57mm cannon
Yak 1 and 3
Lagg 3
Mig 3
IAR 80 or 81
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last but nor least...
Ju-87G :)
btw how about the US Navy's TBD torpedo bomber for early-war CV battle? We need a torpedo bomber that "matches up" with the B5N.
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a/c:-
bomber: PE-2 or (small perk) TU-2.
fighter : L.F. Spit / Mig-3 / Lagg 3
Perk Bomber: Mossie B.35
Vehicle:
Firefly or Sherman (must be!)
for BoB : He-111 / Do-17
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This is my list:
F2A Brewster Buffalo
Bristol Blenheim
Fiat G.50
Curtiss Hawk 75A
Morane Saunier 410
Fokker D.XXI
I-16
I-153 Chaika
Lagg-3
Mig-3
Yak-3
Pe-2
Ilyushin DB-3M
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Originally posted by SASMOX
F2A Brewster Buffalo
If I may, not the F2A version of the Brewster, but the better and lighter B-239 version, please!
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I'm glad so many of you like these suggestions, and I've carefully read all of your comments.
SASMOX--
I agree, the Curtis Hawk 75A and Morane-Saulnier should also be considered, but I'd suggest the M.S. 406, not the M.S. 410. The 406 was France's most numerous fighter. Only 5 examples of the 410 had been delivered by the time France fell.
Furball--
The Dornier Do-17Z-2 "Flying Pencil" would be great for Battle of Britain scenarios, too. I mostly prefer the Heinkel He-111 because of its evil shape when viewed from below. It's such a classic image of the BoB.
wasq--
I had never heard of the B-239 version of the Brewster Buffalo. It really is a very different and much improved version of the F2A. The B-239's place is on the Finnish-Russian front, and the F2A's place is in the Pacific. From what I've read, they are too different to substitute accurately for each other. Here's a great website I found on the B-239. (http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/faf/brewster.html)
Sikboy--
Definately, the Yokosuka D4Y Suisei / Judy should be on the list.
MRPLUTO
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Yes, the M.S. 406 version was what the Finnish Air Force used too. France donated 50 planes to Finland during the Winter War, of which 30 were received and later more 406's were purchased from Germany. Here's some info on the Finnish Air Force fighters (http://www.sci.fi/%7Eambush/faf/fighters.html#morane) . But I'd like to see the Brewster model 239 before Morane. :)
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how bout the condore
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/ju390.jpg)
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P-38F or P-38G or P-38H and redo the P-38L to AH2 standards.
N1K1-J and redo the N1K2-J to AH2 standards.
B-17F and redo the B-17G to AH2 standards.
M4A3 General Sherman (75mm main gun)
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Here just give the axsis this high tech fighter and call it good.:D
(http://www.columbian.com/featurespix/photos/07_20_00.jpg)
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Is that a cobra I see in the background?
Anyways, my picks, are:
Me-210 and 410
P-61 (dont need night for this thing to be useful).
Cannon-armed Ju-88's
Ju-188
Ju-52
Ju-87G
Meteor I (Low perk jet maybe? Not as powerful as a '262, and I'm sure as heck not asking for a Meteor III)
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Yep that's an AH1 in the background and a T-birdd in the foreground.
The JU88p is the anti tank version.
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gear.. not that it bothers me, but some people may not like your nazi flag avatar. just a heads up, better don that flak jacket ;)
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Bring in some Air Warrior planes.....
A-26
P-38J
Betty
KI-43 Oscar
and of course WWI planes
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Originally posted by MRPLUTO
I hope that HTC will concentrate on bombers, although I've read they require much more work to develop than fighters. Nevertheless:
Priority should be given to:
Heinkel He-111H-3
Petlyakov Pe-2
S.M. 79
Mitsubishi G4M2 Betty
I know we don't really need another American bomber, but it would be nice to have something besides the Ar-234 to spend buff perks on. So, I vote for the
B-29 Superfortress (nukes not included)
Other bombers:
Ju-87D-5 (the Stuka with 2 x 37mm)
Bristol Blenheim IV
Vickers Wellington
Ju-52
North American B-25C Mitchell
=====================================
We need more early war fighters, not more uberplanes.
I'd give priority to:
P-39 N & Q
Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa / Oscar
Lockheed P-38 E or F
Mig-3, Yak-1, or Yak 3
Other fighters:
Me-410
Bristol Beaufighter
F2A Brewster Buffalo
Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki / Tojo
Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu / Nick
Dewoitine D. 520
Polikarpov I-16 Rata
The Heinkel He-219 and North American P-61 Black Widow are very popular choices, but they are both night fighters, and until Aces High has night combat events with friendly icons only (that is, no enemy icons), I'd wait on them.
==================================
As for GVs, I'd suggest the Sherman, the Churchill, and some kind of self-propelled artillery, 105mm size.
MRPLUTO
Excellent list, excpet for the B29. Ban the B29!!! Also note that the Ju87D5 did not necessarily designate the 37mm version but the wing length, the D5 was a short wing (same wing as the Ju87B) and the G was the longer wing version. Either one could have the 37mm pods hung on them, but IIRC, the Ju87G was used more with the 37mm because of the longer wing...
And I would also add in the J2M3 Raiden (Jack) :-)
Bazi
http://home.earthlink.net/~tincan14/Wurger/
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What's so bad about a perk B-29? With a two or three hundred perk price-tag, it would probably be the -only- buff in this game that gets used routinely as intended: At high alttitude, in level bombing :D
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And we already have aircraft that can catch the B29, so I must say I agree.
Hehe, the Condor was not a bad idea as well, it saw quite some use in the N-Atlantic theatre.
Anyone have an idea about production numbers?
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Originally posted by Angus
Hehe, the Condor was not a bad idea as well, it saw quite some use in the N-Atlantic theatre.
Anyone have an idea about production numbers?
The Condor would be useless. It was so fragile it was not unheard of for it to break in half during normal landings. It was a passenger aircraft that was converted to a warplane and horribly overstressed as a result of the additional weight. Imagine a C-47 converted to be a bomber and you'll pretty much have an idea of the capability of the Fw200.
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Oh, dear. Never heard that about the Condor. :(
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Hi Karnak,
>Imagine a C-47 converted to be a bomber and you'll pretty much have an idea of the capability of the Fw200.
You're thinking of the B-18 ;-)
Actually, the C-47/Fw 200 comparison is a good one as the Fw 200 was explicitely developed as a DC-3 competitor.
>The Condor would be useless. It was so fragile it was not unheard of for it to break in half during normal landings. It was a passenger aircraft that was converted to a warplane and horribly overstressed as a result of the additional weight.
Despite its problems, the bomber conversion was a great success, especially the strengthened Fw 200C. I'd say it aged too quickly in combat service, but that's only a problem if you're running an extended campaign. Facing allied fighters, the Fw 200 actually gave a good account of itself.
When it cames to taking battle damage, I'd imagine the large fuel tanks in the centre fuselage were a worse problem than the weak structure.
Tactically, the low speed and operating altitude of the Fw 200 probably would be the main reason they were unattractive for standard bomber operations. The bomb load isn't any higher than that of the Ju 88 either, so there's really no reason except range to choose a Fw 200 over a twin-engined bomber.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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HoHun,
Yeah, I knew it was designed as a direct competitor. My analogy was not accidental. ;)
The only thing it would have over the Ju88A-4 is range, everything else favors the Ju88A-4. IIRC the Fw200 had a 4,000lb bomb load, noticably less than the Ju88A-4's in AH.
As to how it did against Allied fighters, I understood that the one way, freighter launched Hurricanes did a job on them whenever they encountered them. I also understand that Beaufighters and Mosquitos saw them as fat, juicy and easy kills.
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Originally posted by Wurger
Excellent list, excpet for the B29. Ban the B29!!! Also note that the Ju87D5 did not necessarily designate the 37mm version but the wing length, the D5 was a short wing (same wing as the Ju87B) and the G was the longer wing version. Either one could have the 37mm pods hung on them, but IIRC, the Ju87G was used more with the 37mm because of the longer wing...
The G-1 was a conversion of the D-3 (short wing span). The G-2 was from the D-5 (long wing span).
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Hi Karnak,
>As to how it did against Allied fighters, I understood that the one way, freighter launched Hurricanes did a job on them whenever they encountered them.
Well, I think the usual result was "Condor chased off" :-)
The Martlet pilots - much better armed than the Hurricane pilots - certainly considered the Condors a handful.
>I also understand that Beaufighters and Mosquitos saw them as fat, juicy and easy kills.
With that kind of firepower, no doubt :-) But with that kind of firepower, which bomber wouldn't have been?
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Carrier-born or rocket-launced Hurry IIC not armed well enough?
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Originally posted by Angus
Carrier-born or rocket-launced Hurry IIC not armed well enough?
I don't think they were Mk IIcs. I think they were surplus Hurricane Mk Is with eight .303s.
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The Condors were being used in the anti-shipping strikes for many years in the N-Atlantic as far as I know.
Anyway, the 8x303 was plenty...if one got close enough...as proved in the BoB
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Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat
Grumman F6F-3 Hellcat
Hawker Sea Hurricane Mk. IIB
The Vought F4U-1A Corsair can wait later.
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This is my list
Italian plane:
Macchi c200, S79, CZ 1007
French plane:
MS 406, De520,LeO451
German plane:
He 111H3, Ju52, HS129
GB plane:
Blenheim IV,Swordfish I,Beaufighter VI
US plane:
P39n,B25c/h/j,P38f/j,B17F,TBD Devastator
Japan plane:
Ki43 III,Ki 44III,Ki 21,G3m3,G4m4.
DC 4°stormo F.B.
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I forgott russian plane:
I 16,Mig3 or Lagg3,Yak 1,Pe2,Il4,Tu2
Wellington III for Bomber Command.
DC
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Hi Angus,
>The Condors were being used in the anti-shipping strikes for many years in the N-Atlantic as far as I know.
The fighter threat forced them to abandon strikes, actually, and they were predominantly used as reconnaissance platforms for the u-boats.
>Anyway, the 8x303 was plenty...if one got close enough...as proved in the BoB
As pointed out above, the Condors were often chased off but seldom shot down. Despite fairly low production numbers, the type was in continous operation for several years.
Eric Brown certainly respected the Fw 200, and he was one of the Martlet pilots slugging it out with them :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Originally posted by gear
how bout the condore
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/ju390.jpg)
Most definately not a Condor. Note the 6 engines, not the 4 of the condor. Note the lack of the ventral tub that held the gunners. Note the lack of single vertical tail.
It looks similar to a Junkers 290 except it has 6 engines.
Dan/Slack
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Originally posted by Guppy35
It looks similar to a Junkers 290 except it has 6 engines.
Exactly, and that was called "Ju390" :)
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Originally posted by Karnak
I don't think they were Mk IIcs. I think they were surplus Hurricane Mk Is with eight .303s.
A couple of the Spit XII pilots I got to know and learned about flew tours with the MSFU (Merchant Shipping Fighter Unit)
I have the logbook of one of them who was with the RCAF. He had numerous practice launches and one launch off the Empire Stanley
This page is from that logbook. After he finished with 416 Squadron and prior to joining 41 Squadron on Spit XIIs, he flew for a year with MSFU, April 42 to April 43.
They had Hurri Is. His logbook lists the serials of all the ones he flew during that year so I could probably make a pretty good list. He also pasted in a newpaper mention of the MSFU with the photo of a mounted Hurri on a Freighter. Note above the photo the listing the the Hurri I's he was flying for MSFU in April 1943
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1098909990_msfuhurri.jpg)
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Day off today so I had some fun with the RCAF pilot's logbook. These are the Hurricanes he flew during his year with MSFU from April 42-April 43. Turns out he went on 6 convoys and was launched 3 times. (I hadn't really paid much attention to that part of his logbook as my main interest was his Spit XII flying)
Only one Hurricane IIB shows up and he only flew it once for an hour. His launches were all Hurricane Is along with everything else he flew. 6 of the serials lack a letter prefix so I don't know for sure which Hurris they were.
Speke was the MSFU Base in England,
Gibralter was the MSFU base in the Med
Dartmouth was the MSFU Base in Nova Scotia, Canada.
So far I determined that Empire Stanley was sunk later in the war. Not sure on the other two ID'd ships.
Dan/Slack
Model Serial Number Location Notes
Hurricane I 2647 Speke
Hurricane I 3273 Speke
Hurricane I 3710 Gibralter
Hurricane I 7647 Gibralter
Hurricane I 8810 Speke
Hurricane I 9310 Speke
Hurricane I AG130 Speke
Hurricane I AG211 Speke
Hurricane I AG224 Speke
Hurricane I AG281 Speke
Hurricane I BW881 Dartmouth
Hurricane I BW884 Dartmouth
Hurricane IIB J3318 Gibralter
Hurricane I N2647 Speke
Hurricane I P2488 Speke
Hurricane I P3868 Speke
Hurricane I P5194 Gibralter
Hurricane I P5209 Speke
Hurricane I P7166 Speke
Hurricane I P9155 Speke
Hurricane I T9526 Gibralter Launch from Empire Clive 8/2/42 to Gibralter
Hurricane I V6696 Speke
Hurricane I V6732 Speke
Hurricane I V6759 Speke Launch from Empire Darwin 2/17/43 to Ayr-Speke
Hurricane I V6858 Speke
Hurricane I V6858 Dartmouth Launch from Empire Stanley 6/6/42 to Speke
Hurricane I V7048 Speke
Hurricane I V7162 Speke
Hurricane I V7166 Speke
Hurricane I V7172 Speke
Hurricane I V7439 Dartmouth
Hurricane I V7464 Speke
Hurricane I V7870 Gibralter
Hurricane I W9128 Speke
Hurricane I W9218 Speke
Hurricane I Z4875 Gibralter
Hurricane I Z4933 Speke
Hurricane I Z4935 Speke
Convoys
England to Canada-April 15, 1942- May 6, 1942.
Canada to England-May 19, 1942-June 5, 1942. Empire Stanley, Hurricane I V6858
England to Gibralter-July 6, 1942-August 1, 1942. Empire Clive, Hurricane I T9526
Gibralter to England-September 15, 1942-October 19, 1942.
England to Gibralter-December 12, 1942-January 26, 1943.
Gibralter to England-February 2, 1943-February 16, 1943. Empire Darwin, Hurricane I V6759
And interesting combat report on a Hurri I off the Empire Darwin vs a FW200
http://www.south-lancs-aviation.co.uk/MSFU%20280343.htm
Image of Empire Darwin
http://www.wwiitechpubs.info/dock/nv-ship-types/images/nv-ship-types-empire-darwin.jpg
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Originally posted by gear
how bout the condore
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/ju390.jpg)
Junkers Ju 390
Type: Long Range Bomber or Reconnaissance aircraft.
Origin: Junkers Flugzeug und Motorenwerke AG
Models: V1 to V3 and A-1
Crew: N/A
First Flight: Prototypes only
Final Delivery: None
Number Produced: V1 and V2 Only
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine:
Model: BMW 801E
Type: 18-Cylinder two-row radial
Number: Six Horsepower: 1,970 hp
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dimensions:
Wing span: 165 ft. 1 in. (50.30m)
Length: 112 ft. 2.5 in. (34.20m)
Height: 22 ft. 7 in. (6.89m)
Wing Surface Area: N/A
Weights:
Empty: 81,350 lb. (36,900 kg)
Loaded: 166,448 lb. (75,500 kg)
Performance:
Maximum Speed:
Clean: 314 mph (505 kph)
With Max. Eternal Weapons: 267 mph (430 kph)
Initial Climb: N/A
Service Ceiling (Typical): N/A
Range in Recce configuration:
6,027 miles (9700 km)
Endurance in Recce configuration: 32 Hours
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armament:
Eight 20mm MG 151.
Eight 13mm MG 131.
Payload:
Transport (V1): 22,046 lb. (10,000 kg)
Bomber (V3): 3,968 lb. (1800 kg)
Avionics:
FuG 200 Hohentwiel Radar.
What you want instead is this
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0067.jpg)The first Me 264 prototype.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type: Ultra Long Range Bomber
Origin: Messerschmitt AG
Engines:
Four 1,700 hp BMW 801D or G 18-cylinder radials
Dimensions:
Span: 43m
Length: 20.90m Height: 4.30m
Weights:
Empty 46,627lb.
Max. Loaded 123,460lb.
Performance:
Max. Speed: 565km/h (351mph)
Max range at 217mph 9,321 miles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments
The Me 264 was designed from the begining as an 'Amerika' bomber. It's goal was to be able to carry a small load to the United States and return or a heavier load and ditch at sea and the crew picked up by U-boat.
The first prototype flew in December 1942, but soon allied presure forced Messerschmitt to slow development and the prototypes were eventaullay destroyed by Allied bombing.
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Hi Guppy,
>And interesting combat report on a Hurri I off the Empire Darwin vs a FW200
>http://www.south-lancs-aviation.co.uk/MSFU%20280343.htm
Quite puzzling with regard to the white flash - doesn't sound like fuel, perhaps he set off an ammunition box?
I'm surprised that the Condor didn't go straight down after receiving the five-second-burst - that's like 800 rounds from 300 yards. Of course, not all of that hit, but still ...
It's also interesting that the Hurricane guns failed after 5.5 s of firing - it should have more ammunition than that. Maybe it took a hit in the pneumatic trigger system? Since the Hurricane was lost (or rather, disposed of on purpose), that wouldn't be uncovered like on a normal fighter sortie.
Thanks, that was a great read! :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Guppy,
>And interesting combat report on a Hurri I off the Empire Darwin vs a FW200
>http://www.south-lancs-aviation.co.uk/MSFU%20280343.htm
Quite puzzling with regard to the white flash - doesn't sound like fuel, perhaps he set off an ammunition box?
I'm surprised that the Condor didn't go straight down after receiving the five-second-burst - that's like 800 rounds from 300 yards. Of course, not all of that hit, but still ...
It's also interesting that the Hurricane guns failed after 5.5 s of firing - it should have more ammunition than that. Maybe it took a hit in the pneumatic trigger system? Since the Hurricane was lost (or rather, disposed of on purpose), that wouldn't be uncovered like on a normal fighter sortie.
Thanks, that was a great read! :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
Could be the Hurri was just worn out too. A Hurri I still in combat in August 43. Talk about war weary. Throw in the stress from the catapault launch on an airframe not really meant for that and it's amazing they flew at all :)
Dan/Slack
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A pic of the Empire Darwin.
(http://www.wwiitechpubs.info/dock/nv-ship-types/images/nv-ship-types-empire-darwin.jpg)