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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Kev367th on October 16, 2004, 02:17:40 PM

Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: Kev367th on October 16, 2004, 02:17:40 PM
Lol.
Well one of the women phones home to her Mum saying help me they are holding us against our will.
Well DUH, you are in the military, you refused a lawfull order, deal with the consequences.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: SunTracker on October 16, 2004, 02:20:19 PM
Easy to act tough 7000 miles from the action.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: VOR on October 16, 2004, 02:29:24 PM
They'll let anybody in these days.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: john9001 on October 16, 2004, 02:33:19 PM
"""The mission was ultimately carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said. """


i think the members of the 343rd that bravely carried out the "sucide mission" should all be awarded silver stars for gallentry in the face of extreme danger.
Title: Re: Unit refuses mission
Post by: anonymous on October 16, 2004, 02:44:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Lol.
Well one of the women phones home to her Mum saying help me they are holding us against our will.
Well DUH, you are in the military, you refused a lawfull order, deal with the consequences.


thats the story as it stands today. i wouldnt make any judgements on this until at least four weeks have gone by so you can see what the real story finally turns out to be.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: Kev367th on October 16, 2004, 03:08:54 PM
Suntracker - I spent 9 years in the British Army, 4 of them in Northern Ireland, and was in Gulf War round 1.
So not a question of acting tough, I think I can comment on it.

You disobey a lawfull order, you pay the consequences.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: anonymous on October 16, 2004, 03:19:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Suntracker - I spent 9 years in the British Army, 4 of them in Northern Ireland, and was in Gulf War round 1.


hats off to you. if it wasnt a reserve unit id be leaning your way. but in my opinion if reserve unit more of a chance that element was given orders by someone unaware of reality of situation. even if that only means five percent chance that thats the case the real story will be out sooner than later.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: rpm on October 16, 2004, 04:57:07 PM
Way too early to make a reasonable decision here. On the surface it looks bad, very bad. Refusing a lawfull order can get you a firing squad. But from the reports I've seen there are some mitigating circumstances.

The JP had already been refused due to contamination. The OIC ordered them to deliver the same fuel to another base. The convoy suppossedly had no armored escort and was going into a known hostile area. The soldiers also noted the unsafe operating condition of the trucks. If all these are true it looks to me that the OIC may have overlooked safety in order to complete the mission. If all of these are not true it appears to be a breakdown in discipline and morale.

If the latter is the case, this is a bigger scandal than Abu Ghrab. It will need a thorough and complete investigation. The fact they have released the soldiers from confinement and stood down the unit for emergency maintence tells me there is much more to this story than has been leaked.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: Maverick on October 16, 2004, 05:01:26 PM
Way too early and too little info to really have a firm idea of what actually went on. Wait until there has been more released and not just a sensationalized single source account.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: ramzey on October 16, 2004, 05:57:09 PM
deserters
on field of battle only one punishment
shame on them
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: SunTracker on October 16, 2004, 06:10:57 PM
These guys just want a fighting chance.  Homemade armored and unarmored trucks, driving the same routes each time, and riding next to 50,000 gallons of fuel is a recipe for disaster.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: NUKE on October 16, 2004, 06:13:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
These guys just want a fighting chance.  Homemade armored and unarmored trucks, driving the same routes each time, and riding next to 50,000 gallons of fuel is a recipe for disaster.


They need to follow orders. They may well have put other lives at risk.

Not saying it's all a field day in Iraq.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: rpm on October 16, 2004, 06:15:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
deserters
on field of battle only one punishment
shame on them

Ramsey, it is WAY too early to make a statement like that. Also, they did not desert, they refused a direct order. Now we need to determine if it was a lawful order under the circumstances. It's gonna take some time and more than the bits and pieces of info we have now.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: ramzey on October 16, 2004, 06:36:46 PM
soldier duty is not allways nice and fun
somone else complete this mission without problems
they refuse it, its cowardnes in face of enemy
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: Raubvogel on October 16, 2004, 09:57:27 PM
My Unit never refuses a mission, no matter how sticky it might get ;)
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: Sandman on October 16, 2004, 09:58:10 PM
Well... make sure he wears a helmet. ;)
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: rabbidrabbit on October 17, 2004, 10:06:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Raubvogel
My Unit never refuses a mission, no matter how sticky it might get ;)



Dude..lay off the farm animals!!
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: bigsky on October 18, 2004, 03:13:01 AM
i agree with nuke. those guys should have enslaved the local population like pharo on the jews to drag those trailers of fuel to there destination. if the damn trucks dont work then you use human power. but these guys are reservists, they are only supposed to be on duty for national emergencys. cant expect them to think of everything. if i was in charge i would make iraqis haul the fuel. hang them when the the fuel dont get to point B. after all its the iraqis war, make them pay the price not us. if the iraqis didnt want this to happen then they should not not have attacked USA with weapons of mass destruction.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: ramzey on October 18, 2004, 09:46:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by bigsky
i agree with nuke. those guys should have enslaved the local population like pharo on the jews to drag those trailers of fuel to there destination. if the damn trucks dont work then you use human power. but these guys are reservists, they are only supposed to be on duty for national emergencys. cant expect them to think of everything. if i was in charge i would make iraqis haul the fuel. hang them when the the fuel dont get to point B. after all its the iraqis war, make them pay the price not us. if the iraqis didnt want this to happen then they should not not have attacked USA with weapons of mass destruction.



holly mollly

i hope this is a sarcasm
have you read what you wrote?
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: Maverick on October 18, 2004, 09:48:42 AM
Little slow this morning Ramzey??? Yep it was sarcasm :rolleyes:  :p
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: Martlet on October 18, 2004, 09:53:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
soldier duty is not allways nice and fun
somone else complete this mission without problems
they refuse it, its cowardnes in face of enemy


I agree 100%.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: ramzey on October 18, 2004, 09:57:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Little slow this morning Ramzey??? Yep it was sarcasm :rolleyes:  :p


yeap just waked up
uffffffffffff, its sarcasm
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: Suave on October 18, 2004, 10:43:39 AM
Some of what I've read says that about half of the vehicle were deadlined, that means not in drivable condition. And I also read that 80% of the army's trucks in Iraq are armored, but this particular unit did not have the armored trucks yet.

It could very well be that because of this demonstration it will bring attention to a problem and soldiers lives will be saved because of it.

Maybe the soldiers in Pvt Lynch's unit should've stood fast in a similar manner.
Title: Unit refuses mission
Post by: SunTracker on October 18, 2004, 11:22:48 AM
Only 1 soldier has been shot for refusing to fight since World War II.