Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dago on October 16, 2004, 04:27:34 PM
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OCTOBER 2004
Roy Rhodes had closed his shop and was returning home just after midnight when he was attacked from behind by two armed men. One or possibly both men fired at Rhodes, who suffered a gunshot wound to his leg. Rhodes returned fire, killing one of the robbers. The other gunman was later arrested and charged with aggravated assault.
(Waycross Journal-Herald, Waycross, GA, 07/22/04)
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A young man was coming out of a bedroom in his grandmother’s house in Gulfport, Miss., when he encountered two men who had entered the home. One of the intruders struck the young man on the head. As the victim fell, he grabbed a gun that was hidden under the bed and began firing at the two men, who then fled in a gray Oldsmobile. No one was injured at the house, but at least one victim of the home invasion had been tied up with duct tape, according to police at the scene.
(The Sun Herald, Biloxi, MS, 07/27/04)
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Lisa Hansen awoke one morning to the sounds of someone moving around inside her house. Then someone ran up her stairs and attempted to open her bedroom door. “I waited to listen to see how many footsteps I heard,” Hansen said. Deciding there was only one intruder, Hansen grabbed her cell phone and reached for a gun she keeps under her bed. She ran out of the room, confronted the burglar and held him at gunpoint until police arrived. The would-be burglar turned out to be a teenager who lives in the neighborhood and had previously done some lawn work for Hansen. The teen said he had entered her home only because he saw a man in there, but Hansen did not believe the explanation. Police later discovered a checkbook belonging to Hansen’s cousin in the boy’s pocket.
(The Spokesman-Review, Spokane, WA, 07/09/04)
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Two Tennessee women responded to a knock at their door at about 1:30 a.m. and saw two masked men standing outside. The women, who are cousins, ran to an upstairs bedroom as the men kicked in their back door. Police spokesman Don Aaron described what happened next. “As one of [the intruders] came to the doorway of the bedroom where the two women were hiding, the older cousin, who had retrieved a pistol from a nightstand, fired one time. The intruder was hit and died at the scene from a gunshot wound to the head,” said Aaron. The other intruder fired twice but neither woman was injured. The deceased intruder was identified as Maurice Wilson, who had been charged with 38 offenses in the past three years, Aaron said. (The Tennesean, Nashville, TN, 07/19/04)
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In East Oakland, Calif., market employee thwarted a robbery attempt at the 3M Market early one Saturday. The alleged robber, identified as David Mosely, was wounded in his head and back and left the store. Police were called to a nearby apartment to investigate a call about a man covered in blood but did not locate the suspect when they arrived. Mosely was arrested a short time later when he attempted to steal a car. He was charged with attempted robbery and taken to the hospital. (The San Francisco Chronicle, San Francisco, CA, 07/25/04)
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At 1:52 a.m, a Pacific Beach, Calif., resident heard someone breaking into his home. Fearing for his wife and young child’s safety, the homeowner retrieved a gun and fired at the intruder, who suffered a wound to his ankle and fled the scene. Police apprehended the suspect, took him for medical treatment and then to jail.
(The San Diego Union-Tribune, San Diego, CA, 07/12/04)
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James Shema, owner of Shema’s Outdoor Sports in Merrillville, Ind., knew immediately he was in a deadly situation. A man entered his store with a sawed-off shotgun and ordered Shema, his wife, Kathy, and three customers to drop to the floor. As Shema moved toward the floor, he grabbed a .40-cal. handgun he kept behind the counter and fired two shots at the robber. The wounded gunman fled the store and was soon apprehended by authorities who found him bleeding in the back seat of a nearby SUV. Shema said he just did what he had to do. “When he came in here with a shotgun and no mask on his face I didn’t think he planned to leave survivors,” Shema explained.
(The Times, Munster, IN, 07/29/04)
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Why oh why do you have to print the NRA Monthly Manifesto? NRA members are flooded with it thru the mail, those that care enough about it are NRA members...get my point?
Didn't Skuzzy say something about this the last time somebody posted it?
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*insert token whiny anti-2nd-amendment anectdote here*
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RPM,
That isn't the NRA "manifesto".
IIRC the NRA gives permission for reprints of that collum in every issue. There aren't any copyright issues. Certainly far less than the usual cut and paste used to support stances both left and right. You donj't want to read it, pass it by. No one forced you to click on the thread and there certainly wasn't any personal attack in it to offend you.
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I didn't take it as a personal attack in any way. And before you go crying "LIBERAL!", just be aware I'm a gun owner and support the 2nd amendment. But, that won't matter because I've besmirched the Holy NRA. Wayne LaPierre can kiss my ***. He's the reason I left the NRA.
BTW, come over to my house and check my collection. I've got an 8mm Mauser I'm particularly proud of.
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rpm, you seem more realistic and likeable every day it seems.
Are you sure you are a liberal?
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Which side of the country you on? We're in Louisiana right now and are heading slowly west agin to connect with more grandkids. We have no set plans for after Christmastime. Unfortunately most of my collection is in storage. No room for a 1000 lb vault in my RV :(
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I'm in North Texas Mav, about 45 minutes north of the HTC mothership.
Thanks NUKE. Honestly, I'm a fiscal conservative and social liberal, guess that makes me a Centrist. I'm just decidedly anti-Bush. Saw enough of his screw-up's when he was Governor. Kerry is far from my Poster Child, but this year I have no other viable choice.:(
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Originally posted by rpm
I'm in North Texas Mav, about 45 minutes north of the HTC mothership.
Thanks NUKE. Honestly, I'm a fiscal conservative and social liberal, guess that makes me a Centrist. I'm just decidedly anti-Bush. Saw enough of his screw-up's when he was Governor. Kerry is far from my Poster Child, but this year I have no other viable choice.:(
Don't sweat it rpm, your vote will count for Bush no matter how you cast it. :p
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Originally posted by Dago
Two Tennessee women responded to a knock at their door at about 1:30 a.m. and saw two masked men standing outside. The women, who are cousins, ran to an upstairs bedroom as the men kicked in their back door. Police spokesman Don Aaron described what happened next. “As one of [the intruders] came to the doorway of the bedroom where the two women were hiding, the older cousin, who had retrieved a pistol from a nightstand, fired one time. The intruder was hit and died at the scene from a gunshot wound to the head,” said Aaron. The other intruder fired twice but neither woman was injured. The deceased intruder was identified as Maurice Wilson, who had been charged with 38 offenses in the past three years, Aaron said. (The Tennesean, Nashville, TN, 07/19/04)
I side with Lasz when it comes to guns but tripe like this doesn't help.
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i feel sorry for the poor 38 offense career criminal, there he was trying for a personal best record of 40 offenses when his young life was snufed out by a crazed right wing gun nut with a full automatic assault hand gun, see what happens when the assault gun ban is lifted.
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As long as were sharing gun stories, here's one the NRA forgot to publish:
Parents fight for greater gun safety
Two mothers in mourning say stricter laws requiring gun locks or other safety measures could save lives.
By ABBIE VANSICKLE
Published October 11, 2004
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When Jeanne Caroline heard the news of Johnny Michael Masukevich's death, she felt a sharp pain of sadness. The sorrow quickly turned to anger.
"Why is this happening again?" she asked.
Two boys with a gun. Slightly more than a year ago, Caroline's son, Sean Caroline II, died in Pinellas County when a classmate accidentally shot him in the head. And now, in a county not far from her own, a similar tragedy occurred.
"I'm angry because 13 months later, the same thing happened," Caroline said.
Two boys with a gun. Antonio Alexander Fernandez told authorities the two boys were playing a game when he pointed a gun at Johnny's chest and pulled the trigger. Johnny died shortly after.
For Caroline, Johnny's death is another reason to keeping fighting for gun lock legislation.
"It is becoming such a disease in our country - children shooting children," she said.
She's quick to point out she doesn't want to limit anyone's Second Amendment rights to keep and bear arms. She doesn't mind if people choose to own guns. But she wants those guns secure. Gun locks are one boundary between children and guns that could save lives, she said.
Law enforcement agencies throughout the state encourage use of gun locks, but the locks are not mandated by law. A gun lock is a device that slips over a gun's trigger, so the trigger cannot be pulled. The lock is secured with either a key or a combination.
Citrus County law enforcement agencies have a stock of gun locks free to the public, said Sheriff's spokeswoman Gail Tierney.
At a recent safety exposition, community affairs Sgt. Chris Evan and deputies handed out about 200 free gun locks to residents. Residents can pick up free gun locks at the Beverly Hills Community Resource Office, in Beverly Plaza on County Road 491.
Florida law states that all loaded firearms must be secure from a child's access, meaning guns must be kept in a locked container or secured by a gun lock. Failing to prevent a child from accessing a gun is a misdemeanor crime. If a child gets an unsecured gun and seriously injures or kills someone, the gun's owner could be charged with a felony.
But the law does not stipulate how guns must be secured in homes. Firearms can be stored anywhere in the home and in any method as long as they are secure from children and people not authorized to use guns, the law states.
It is here, in the nuances of the law, that Caroline hopes to make a difference. She compares gun locks to safety belts. She knows that gun locks, like seat belts, won't save every life. Many people who wear seat belts still die in car accidents, but seat belts are mandated by law because studies have shown they do help reduce fatalities, she said. Gun locks, too, would save lives, she said.
Before her son's death, she knew little about guns. The Carolines didn't own a gun. When her son went to visit other children's homes, Caroline would meet the parents of the other children. But she didn't think to ask whether the parents kept guns in their homes.
Johnny's mother, Michelle Ash, tells a similar story. She's never owned a gun, she said. She can't even remember having touched one. Now that her son, a seventh-grader at Crystal River Middle School, is dead, she's furious at parents who keep guns in their homes in reach of children.
Like Caroline, Ash believes Florida's gun laws should be stricter. She doesn't want to stop people from owning guns, she said, but more mandated safety measures for guns could save lives. A gun lock might have saved her son's life.
"I'm all for (increased gun safety)," she said.
Gun safety starts at home, though, she said. She urged parents to be responsible for keeping safe combinations, keys and other devices from their children, so guns aren't easily available.
"If parents don't have respect for guns, how will a kid?" she asked.
Ash's brother, Mike Hudak, flew down from Chicago for Johnny's funeral. Hudak said he owns several guns and keeps them in his home. He's skeptical about whether gun locks will do enough to stop accidental deaths among children.
After all, Antonio told authorities he discovered the combination to the safe and opened it. Children could figure out how to open a gun lock, too, Hudak said.
"Kids are pretty smart these days," he said.
Parental supervision and teaching is the best way to prevent gun accidents, he said.
He proposed that schools develop programs about gun safety and the dangers of guns to educate children and show them the consequences of playing with guns.
That way, he said, others won't feel the pain of burying a young nephew.
Just down the street from Ash's home, another young boy's room remains empty.
Antonio was arrested on a charge of manslaughter after the shooting. The 11-year-old boy remains in law enforcement custody without bail. The State Attorney's Office has not yet decided whether Antonio's parents will be charged. Prosecutors are gathering information, Assistant State Attorney Bill Catto said.
Ash wants prosecutors to charge Antonio's parents in the shooting to teach others parents a lesson about keeping guns in homes. An 11-year-old boy should not be the only one held accountable in the shooting, she said.
"Their son is alive," she said. "I have to go to the cemetery to talk to mine."
The situation in the case of Johnny and Antonio differs from the Caroline case. Antonio told Citrus County detectives he pulled the gun from a locked safe in his home while his mother was asleep in a different room. He told detectives he knew the combination. He also told them he could see at least one bullet in the cylinder of the gun.
Antonio and Johnny, who lived near Antonio in the Holiday Heights subdivision, were playing a game, he said. They took turns pointing the gun and pulling the trigger. On the third try, the gun fired.
In the Caroline case, Sean's 14-year-old classmate found his father's loaded .357 Magnum under the living room sofa. As Sean played a video game at Louis Mevec's home, the boy pointed the gun at Sean and pulled the trigger. Louis said he thought he'd emptied the gun of all bullets.
Louis admitted guilt to a manslaughter charge and was sentenced to attend a boys village.
The boy's father, also named Louis Mevec, was convicted of culpable negligence in Sean's death. A judge sentenced the father to just under three years in prison, followed by 31/2 years of probation.
The Carolines want their son to be remembered. They don't want to see another child killed by a gun. That is why they'll keep researching and advocating for tighter gun safety laws, Caroline said.
"It's common sense," she said. "And if someone had used common sense, my son would still be alive."
source (http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/11/Citrus/Parents_fight_for_gre.shtml)
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How can the NRA miss gun stories like this?
Officers say kids found a loaded gun in the bedroom of a Porterville apartment. The apartment was home to a Tulare County deputy.
The kids were playing with the gun when it went off. The bullet hit a seven-year-old girl in the head.
Family members took the child to Sierra View District Hospital, where she died.
There is no word if anyone will be charged in connection with the shooting.
Officials will not say if the deputy's service weapon was the one used.
The sheriff's department says someone within the department has been placed on paid leave.
source (http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/news/101304_nw_deputy_shooting.html)
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when criminals use gunlocks so will i.
you miss the whole point rpm , if those "children" had been taught that guns are not toys to play with they would not be shooting each other wile "playing" with a gun.
can't even remember how young i was when my dad handed me his shotgun and said " boy, this thing will kill, don't ever point it at anything you don't want to kill"
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Originally posted by john9001
when criminals use gunlocks so will i.
Tell that to your friend after his kids wander in your bedroom during the holidays.
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RPM, a syou probably know, I'm a right wing conservative in about every sense of the word. I think anyone who ever has kids in their house should have their guns in a safe/locks.
I also think that anyone who is negligent w/ their handguns should be charged as if they committed the crime.
In otherwords, 2 boys find a gun. Thery play w/ it and one ends up dying. Negligent gun owner should be charged w/ negligent homicide, IMHO.
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what Steve said
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What Nuke said.
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wow i live about 10 miles away from that Waycross
gunlocks are a must to many times i read about kids playing and finding a fully loaded handgun
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"In otherwords, 2 boys find a gun. Thery play w/ it and one ends up dying. Negligent gun owner should be charged w/ negligent homicide, IMHO."
The age of the kid should play a part too. If a weapon is stored so poorly that 4 year olds get at it and can operate it...then yes there's a problem. However if the kids are more like 14....then they're both smart enough to get past any safety featues, and should also know better than to even try. In the case of older kids, the one who kills his buddy deseves to get to think about it in confinement until he is 21.
If you're determined to have a loaded pistol around if you have small children (not really a great idea to begin with; at the very least the magazine should be separate), I'd advise at least using something like a 1911. Having a lot of built-in safety and being single-action, not many small children are going to even be able to operate it. If you have something like a basic double-action Glock then you're just begging for trouble.
J_A_B
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What Steve said.
Honestly, I am pro-gun. I just hate NRA propaganda.
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However if the kids are more like 14....then they're both smart enough to get past any safety featues, and should also know better than to even try.
So in our example, two 14 year olds find a gun in a house, play w/ it and one ends up dying of a gunshot wound..... the gun owner is in no way responsible?
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I agree that kids should be taught to be responsible with guns,but having said that kids are...well,kids.Best to assume they'll do something foolish.
I sleep with a loaded Beretta in the headboard.Anytime there are children coming over,it's locked up tighter than Fort Knox.
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"So in our example, two 14 year olds find a gun in a house, play w/ it and one ends up dying of a gunshot wound..... the gun owner is in no way responsible?"
Re-read my post. I didn't say anything so cut-and-dry. It depends on the situation.
What I'm saying is that the older the child is, the more culpable he is for his own actions. What would be parental negligence in the case of 5-year-olds, might not be if you have 14-year-olds involved.
In the case of the quote I pasted above, the answer is "not enough information".
Did the two kids find the gun laying on the living room table while their parents are passed out drunk in the next room?
Or, did Kid 1 invite Kid 2 over after school while his parents are still at work, sneak into his parents room (which is normally off-limits) and rummage through his parents' drawers until he found the pistol and ammo because he wanted to show off?
How would YOU react to those scenarios? Is the gun owner equally responsible in both cases? Steve, you sound as thouh you want to hold the gun owner fully responsible any time a minor uses a gun to commit a crime. Is that how you feel?
J_A_B
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There's a statistic out there that says 75 crimes are prevented with a gun to 1 accidental killing with a gun. Its not broken down to how many of the 75 are violent crimes, but it is worth thinking about. As orther have stated, the rank and file officers who face violent crime everyday, believe owning a gun is the best protection a citizen can have against violent crime. I have no problem with citizens owning guns. I do have a problem thinking the registration of guns is somehow unfair or unconstitutional.
I believe Norway is great example of how strict gun registration would be in the US. The registration in Norway is strict, gun ownwership is high, and gun crime is low.
Perhaps strict gun registration could cut the numbers of accidental gun killings in half.
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Is the gun owner equally responsible in both cases?
Yup, IMO when it comes to gun ownership, negligence that leads to a minors death/injury, the owner should be held accountable. 5 years old, 14 years old.. all the same. If you own a gun ( I own several) you are responsible for keeping them safely stored.
..hold the gun owner fully responsible any time a minor uses a gun to commit a crime.
I'm talking about accidental shootings.
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"I'm talking about accidental shootings."
What is an "accidental" shooting?
How accidental is it if somebody takes a pistol out of a drawer, flips off the safety, loads it, charges it, aims it at his friend, and pulls the trigger?
I don't care how old the perpetrator is--it is a deliberate, specific action. There's no "accident" involved. "Accident" is a word which, unfortunately, suffers from gross mis-use these days.
This is why age is important. If you're talking about a pre-school child, they don't have the level of mental development to be culpable for their actions. A teenager does (usually). These sorts of things need to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis, which incedentally is why we have a juvenile justice system.
Your stated idea of negligence seems rigid irregardless of the child's age. However that interpretation is incorrect. It's pretty negligent for a parent to leave an 18-month-old baby home alone for a couple of hours, but is completely acceptable to trust your 16-year-old alone for the afternoon.
Let me put it this way--the GUN isn't the issue. The kid's level of mental culpability is the issue. If you sit a baby on the edge of a filled bathtub then go into the other room to talk on the phone and the baby drowns....are you going to be liable? You bet! However, if your 14-year-old manages to drown in the tub, then usually that wouldn't be negligence. As children age, although they're still treated as minors under the law, they also become more accountable for their own actions.
J_A_B
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What is the difference between the stories??
To answer your question RPM... One example is a lengthy, emotional and preachy speech about an event that happens less offten than kids drowning in 5 gallon buckets in their own backyard.
The NRA ones are about events that happen 800 to 3million times a year (depending on if death or injury resulted)
I think you function on hate... you are probly young so it is more emotion than hate... You pick a person that you can't possibly know or even know the circumstances of their lives and decide to hate them vehemently.... George Bush and Wayne LaPiere are examples... there are probly a few more.... What is interseting is that you probly agree with a lot of the things they are doing but your hate drives you to deride every single little thing they do no matter if it is right or wrong.
Drunky... not sure what you meant? is it tripe for a woman to shoot an armed felon who has backed her into a corner?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Drunky... not sure what you meant? is it tripe for a woman to shoot an armed felon who has backed her into a corner?
lazs
I believe everyone should have the right to arm themselves.
Did you notice the underlined words in the italicized sentence? She picked up a pistol from the nightstand and the perp was immediately killed from a shotgun wound to the head.
Sounds like fiction to me if they can't keep the facts straight. That is why I call it tripe.
I'm sure there are real cases of people properly defending themselves with firearms without having to make stuff up. It undermines the cause when people create fabrications even with the best intentions.
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Originally posted by lazs2
What is the difference between the stories??
To answer your question RPM... One example is a lengthy, emotional and preachy speech about an event that happens less offten than kids drowning in 5 gallon buckets in their own backyard.
The NRA ones are about events that happen 800 to 3million times a year (depending on if death or injury resulted)
I think you function on hate... you are probly young so it is more emotion than hate... You pick a person that you can't possibly know or even know the circumstances of their lives and decide to hate them vehemently.... George Bush and Wayne LaPiere are examples... there are probly a few more.... What is interseting is that you probly agree with a lot of the things they are doing but your hate drives you to deride every single little thing they do no matter if it is right or wrong.
lazs
Wow, Laz is now a mindreader, albeit a very bad one. I'm not sure if you are or ever have been an NRA member but I was for many years. I got beaten down by the non-stop flux of mail asking for money signed by LaPierre. The postage on junk mail alone negated my NRA dues.
As for my picking stories about people I never met, tell me of your long association with the people in the NRA's stories. I'm very interested in hearing about them. Do tell.
I'm also not sure you understood the reasoning of my counter logic posts, either. You obviously don't have a position based in reality if you think as many children drown in 5 gallon buckets as are killed by guns. You might want to do a smidgen of research and attempt to wrap your mind around both sides of the issue before posting a cut and dried, NRA approved propaganda message. If you don't think the term propaganda fits the NRA's mailings, try looking up the definition of the word.
Oh, I'd love to be young and dumb again, but I'm long past either of those terms being applicable to me. I'm also sure I'm more familiar with Bush than you care to credit me (nice attempt at changing the subject). I tend to dig a little deeper than 10 second soundbites before I form an opinion. Remember, I endured 4 years of him popping up on TV as the owner of the Texas Rangers (altho he was only 1 of many minority owners) prior to his Gubenatorial run and then his stint as my Governor.
Please Dr. Mephisto, err I mean Laz, tell me more.
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Originally posted by Drunky
Did you notice the underlined words in the italicized sentence? She picked up a pistol from the nightstand and the perp was immediately killed from a shotgun wound to the head.
I did and was wondering what you meant.
the older cousin, who had retrieved a pistol from a nightstand, fired one time. The intruder was hit and died at the scene from a gunshot wound to the head,” said Aaron. (The Tennesean, Nashville, TN, 07/19/04)
Gunshot bud, not shotgun.
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I find these stories interesting and even though I read 'em in the American Rifleman I say keep 'em coming Dago. :aok
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I blame society.
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Yep, just last week in near Birmingham AL 4 convicts escaped from Georgia and were holed up at a fellas lake home. When the home owner arrived he was accosted by them and one recieved a nice gunshot to the face. I think he will recover. The other 3 fled and were later caught in Oklahoma still driving the white SUV with Georgia plates they stole when they first escaped.
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I'm confused, people tell me I have the wrong impression of the USA and then I read lazs's stats and these NRS bulletins and think how much I love lil old NZ.
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Originally posted by Lazerus
Gunshot bud, not shotgun.
Well, there you go. I made my first mistake this year. I'm only allowed one so I better shut up for the rest of the year :p
I'm sorry, I misread that as shotgun wound.
Thanks Laz.
Hope JG2 is doing good. I'm not even playing AH anymore since me and the wife are back in school. I still read the squad board from time to time.
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If a kid is able to get to an unloaded gun, and know how to load it, **** it, and then pull the trigger in the company of others while it's pointed at someone, then that kid should be charged.
If the gun is say, mounted on the wall. The kid finds a chair and takes it off it's stand. He then goes around and finds ammunition for the revolver/pistol and loads it. With his friends in close proximity, he fires it and injures them. Would this kid be held responsible? I believe so.
It all depends on how the gun is secured, and how the ammunition is stored, as well as how the kid is able to operate the firearm.
As for citizens arming themselves, they should. It will give criminals a reason not to break the law and assault someone.
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RPM..i have been a memebr of NRA for 12 years..I hate all the waste of money crap certificates they send ....
But..they are the only well organized group...protecing our gun rights from our OWN Government
but...
You think theses MORONS who have loaded firearms with kids around..are going to some how..become .."smarter",,,and be responsible for gun safty becuase Gov makes a law???
LMFAO..you are a clueless dolt...........Gov cannot force people to be responsible parents
and..These Armed Citizens Clips are form Newspapers across the country...
So..its not like the NRA is making them up..they are trying to show the Millions of good uses of firearms...especialy when friends like your Million Mom March and the Bradys lie so much
Love
BiGB
xoxo
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rpm... I think you missread me. I say that the people you don't know and hate are LaPiere and Bush... you seem to pounce on every little thing they say or do and hate them vehemently. As a reason.... you give... The organization that LaPierre represents sent you..... mail?
That is why you have such a deep hate and personal grudge against him? They are protectiing your gun ritghts and nothing else yet you would like to see them destroyed?
Bush... he was your governor... I don't know maybe he kicked your dog or something when he was in your town but I never seen such hate for someone who you don't even know.
As for the 5 gallon bucket... more infants are drown in 5 gallon buckets than are accidentaly shot... you will see a picture of a toddler upside down in a bucket with a line through it on 5 gallon buckets as a warning label.
So what is Ol Wayne doing to you (besides ruining your mailbox) that is so awful? Protecting your 2nd amendment rights?
lazs
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I've posted this before. It all boils down to education and respect.
I fired my first gun at around age 5, with much help, of course. I could fire a gun any time I wanted to for as long as I can remember.
I took my first hunter safety class before age 10.
I took my second hunter safety class before age 10.
I was never allowed to own BB or Pellet guns, because my father thought they taught bad habits.
I received my first shotgun on my 10th birthday, which is when you can hunt legally in Maine. I'd been hunting with my father, without a gun, for as long as I can remember. By the time I received my own gun I was a good shot, could press my own shells, and knew how to respect a gun. It was a familiar object in my house.
Kids that are familiar with guns, know how to handle them, and respect them don't have gun problems.
Kids who have to search their parents sock drawer for the hidden gun because they aren't allowed to see it are dangerous. They have the natural curiosity for the "forbidden", and aren't educated on how to handle it when they find it.
Guns don't kill people, morons do. Do your kids a favor and familiarize them with guns, because you can bet they'll run across them at some point.
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Originally posted by rpm
What Steve said.
Honestly, I am pro-gun. I just hate NRA propaganda.
I am assuming you hate any left wing special interest groups too? If not, you're a hypocrit.