Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wolfala on October 17, 2004, 07:32:55 AM
-
I was too young to realize what was going on at the time - but what was the history leading upto the 1986 attack that tried to kill Qadafi and everything upto the current point with him surrenduring nuclear aspirations?
Wolfala
-
The first Gulf of Sidra incident, August 19, 1981, was the firing of an air to air missile by one of two Libyan Sukoi Su-22 Fitter fighter jets, followed by their shooting down by the US F-14 Tomcats they fired at.
In 1973 Libya had claimed much of the Gulf of Sidra as its territorial waters and subsequently declared a "line of death", the crossing of which would invite a military response. As part of its onging freedom of navigation activities in support of 12 mile teritorial waters practices the US Navy aircraft carrrier USS Nimitz (CVN-68) was operating near the line of death.
On the morning of the 19th, VF-41 Black Aces F-14As Fast Eagle 102 (CDR "Hank" Kleeman/LT D. Venlet)(160403 AJ102) and Fast Eagle 107 (LT "Music" Muczynski/LTJG "Amos" Anderson)(160390 AJ107) were flying combat air patrol to cover aircraft engaged in a missile exercise. An E-2A Hawkeye gained radar contact with two Fitters which had left Wheelus air base near Tripoli. A man named Tom Johnson of Acworth, Ga. who was in the Navy at the time as some kind of pilot claims to have fired the Sidewinder that downed the attacking Su-22. As it turns out, he wasn't even there. The Fitters were heading towards the Tomcats and the lead Fitter fired an AA-2 Atoll short range heat seeking missile at the Tomcats. The Tomcats evaded and were cleared to return fire.
Muxzynski went for the lead Fitter and engaged it with a very short range AIM-9 Sidewinder missile shot. Kleeman engaged the wingman and when the Fitter turned clear of the sun gained lock-on with a Sidewinder and fired, hitting the tailpipe. One Libyan pilot was seen to eject and was subsequently recovered from the sea. Sources differ on the fate of the other, some reporting presumed lost, others reporting ejection and recovery. The US country report says recovered.
Very early British press reports, like that in the Plymouth Evening Herald afternoon newspaper, mentioned the use of "radar homing Sidewinder missiles", an impossibility because those missiles are heat seeking only, though a radar proximity fuse has been used. Sources have occasionally suggested that Phoenix missiles were used, extremely unlikely for such a short range engagement and contrary to official US reports.
That was the first one...
|} |} The second Gulf of Sidra incident, January 4, 1989, occurred when US F-14 Tomcats shot down two Libyan MiG-23 Flogger Es that appeared to be attempting to engage them, as had happened previously in the Gulf of Sidra incident (1981).
In 1973 Libya claimed much of the Gulf of Sidra as its territorial waters and subsequently declared a "line of death", the crossing of which would invite a military response. As part of its ongoing freedom of navigation activities in support of 12-mile territorial waters practices, the US Navy aircraft carrrier USS John F. Kennedy was operating near the Libyan coast.
At 20,000ft at 11:57 on the morning of the 4th, VF-32 Gypsey Swordsmen F-14As AC207 (Joseph Bernard Connelly/CDR Steven Patrick Collins)(159610 AC207) and AC204 (Herman C. III Cook/Leo F. Enright)(159013 AC204) were flying combat air patrol about 70 miles from the Libyan coast. Two Libyan MiG-23 Floggers which had taken off from Al Bumbaw airfield were detected flying towards them. At the time the Floggers were 72 nautical miles away at 10,000ft and heading directly towards the Tomcats and carrier.
The F-14s turned away from the head on approach to indicate that they didn't want to fight. The Floggers jinked to return to head on approach at a closing speed of about 1,000mph. The F-14s dove to 3,000ft to give a clear radar picture against the sky and leave the Floggers with sea clutter to contend with. At 11:59 the radar-intercept officer (RIO) of the lead Tomcat armed the AIM-9 Sidewinder and AIM-7 Sparrow missiles it was carrying.
The Tomcats tried three more maneuvers to end the approach. Each time observers in an E-2C Hawkeye heard the Libyan ground controller instruct the Floggers to maneuver into a head-on course.
At noon the trailing Tomcat locked on to the Floggers with its radar, which in past encounters had been reported to the Libyan ground controller and resulted in an instruction to break contact. The US aircraft did not hear those communications this time. At almost 12:01 the lead Tomcat pilot said that "Bogeys have jinked back at me again for the fifth time. They're on my nose now, inside of 20 miles", followed shortly by "Master arm on" as he armed his weapons. At a range of 14 miles he fired a Sparrow radar homing missile and reported "Fox 1. Fox 1." At ten miles range he fired another Sparrow. Both missed.
The Floggers accelerated and continued to approach. At six miles range the Tomcats split and the Floggers followed the wingman while the lead Tomcat circled to get a tail angle on the Floggers for a Sidewinder heat seeking missile shot. The wingman successfully engaged with a Sparrow and one of the US pilots broadcast "Good kill! Good kill!" The lead Tomcat closed on the final Flogger and at 1.5 miles the RIO fired a Sidewinder, which exploded in the tailpipe of the target. One crewman broadcast "Good kill!" and "Let's get out of here." The Libyan pilots were seen to successfully eject and parachuted into the sea. The Tomcats proceeded north to return to the carrier.
Subsequent examination of still photography from the Tomcats indicated that the Floggers were armed with AA-7 Apex missiles. Depending on the model, this can be either semi-active radarhoming or infra-red (heat seeking) homing.
-
The attack was launched after the bombing of a bar (disco) in Germany, frequented by U.S. soldiers, was linked to Libyan agents.
-
Here is a link to Reagan'm Memoir about Lybia:
http://www.ronaldreagan.com/libya.html (http://www.ronaldreagan.com/libya.html)
-
Basicly he kept pushing Reagan's buttons untill Reagan pushed a few F-111's. Lybia was claiming international waters as their territory and harrassing US Navy ships in the Gulf. We splashed 2 Lybian Migs with F-14's over the Gulf in 81. Lybia was also blamed for the terrorist bombing of a Disco in Berlin along with several other terrorist acts including killing hostages.
Reagan sent F-111's out of England. France refused us passage thru their airspace. This caused the mission an extra 6 hours I believe. The fatigue was evident when we accidentally damaged the French embassy in the raid and scored direct hits on Kaddhafi's homes. ;)
-
Originally posted by rpm
The fatigue was evident when we accidentally damaged the French embassy in the raid and scored direct hits on Kaddhafi's homes. ;)
Interesting - I remember a similar incident not too long ago involving the Chinese embassy. Glad were keeping up meaningful communication - thanks gents!
-
libya was linked to a bunch of terrorist activity. the disco bombing was the most provable to the public at the time. libya was supporting a bunch of very nasty people giving them equipment and running training camps for them. dont forget the pan am jet that blew up over scotland. libya has effectively admitted involvement in this.
-
http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id313.htm
here's a good link.
-
Prior to the Gulf of Sidra shoot downs of the MiGs, the Libyans (in their bumbling way) tried (twice that I know of) to shoot down RC-135 aircraft flying in ICAO International Airspace.
They shot their missiles outside the range perameters and so of course they missed. The question was were they that stupid or was it some sort of "warning". From recordings/transcripts of their GCI/cockpit communications, the theory was that they were indeed that stupid.
-
Very early British press reports, like that in the Plymouth Evening Herald afternoon newspaper, mentioned the use of "radar homing Sidewinder missiles", an impossibility because those missiles are heat seeking only, though a radar proximity fuse has been used. Sources have occasionally suggested that Phoenix missiles were used, extremely unlikely for such a short range engagement and contrary to official US reports.
The Sidewinder missile although heat seeking can be *slaved* to the radar of the firing plane to force it to lock onto the target that the pilot chooses. (Not all aircraft can do this btw, the F-4 Phantom is one that cant.) This could explain the confusion of *radar guided Sidewinder missiles*.
-
when he saw sadam crawl out of his rat hole, he saw the light and coughed up his nuke program....
-
Getting tough with Libya paid off big time.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Getting tough with Libya paid off big time.
Yet, we did'nt have to invade them. Interesting.
-
Originally posted by rpm
Yet, we did'nt have to invade them. Interesting.
Nope. We just had to invade Iraq, capture Saddam and give him full body cavaity search on live TV. After that Gadhaffi got real reasonable. ;)
-
Originally posted by rpm
Yet, we did'nt have to invade them. Interesting.
That's a good thing too. Saddam could have prevented invasion, but chose otherwise.
-
Originally posted by rpm
Yet, we did'nt have to invade them. Interesting.
im sure the presence of the soviet union had nothing to do with it.
-
Still no evidence of two US Navy planes shot down by S-200 SAM in Spring 1986? :confused:
I have talked to several people who have been there. Genri (Gennadich, http://www.gennadich.com owner) was a translator for the S-200 advisor crew there and took part in that episode.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Boroda, one F-111 was shot down over Libya in 1986.
Didn't it crash in the Mediterranean after it was hit over Libya?
-
A6 was shot down too.
-
I'm sure all the crews that were lost were very tired after all the extra hours in-flight and refuelings necessary to detour around France.
-
Originally posted by SunTracker
A6 was shot down too.
Yes, I beleive it was from the Midway.
-
Originally posted by Otto
I'm sure all the crews that were lost were very tired after all the extra hours in-flight and refuelings necessary to detour around France.
Heheh, yeah it's France's fault that Libya shot down the fighters. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
Heheh, yeah it's France's fault that Libya shot down the fighters. :rolleyes:
What fighters did Libya shoot down?