Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: JoeBWan17 on October 18, 2004, 02:44:23 PM
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I am currently running the following:
P4 1.7 Ghz
512MB PC133 (ouch!)
ATI 9600Pro
and really struggling with Aces High as well as several other games. I've set everything to performance, knocked the texture down to 128, and I still get frame rates around 15-20 when the fight gets down low.
Right now I'm considering upgrading to an AMD based system using the 939 socket. I'm a little worried about the maturity of the 939 MBs though.
Currently considering:
AMD 64 3000+ (the 939 with 512 cache)
ASUS A8V Deluxe MB
1024 MB (two 512 3200 DDR 400 unbuffered)
and possibly staying with my 9600 Pro until the 6600 GTs are released in AGP.
I'm toying with the idea of either going with a faster processor (3500+) or a faster video card (6800GT).
Any advice from someone who has been in the game more recently myself? I worked at a "Mom and Pop" pc store in High School for 4 years, but that was several years ago so my technical skills are out of date.
Thanks!
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It all depends on your budget.
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Why hamper what is otherwise a top machine by using a 9600?
I run a BFG 6800 GT- OC and it's worth every penny. fps @ 55 in a fight and 124 cruising along. 1024x768 res@85Hz. 512 texture.
The card is overclocked out of the box and has lifetime gaurantee.
ASUS A7N8X del.
1G. pc3200 DDR 400
XP3000 400fsb
400W psu.
Just make sure you have an adequate psu. It says min. 300W, but tech support at BFG recommends 400.
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If your primary interest is Aces High, then your current video card will be sufficient.
Go for the fastest cpu you can afford as Aces High is almost 100% cpu dependant. AH does not appear to currently make use of the onboard graphics abilities of a top grade video card.
Which is beginning to annoy more than a few people.
Currently using Asus A8V rev 2 motherboard and A64 3500. I gained 10 fps over a p4 @32.gig on the runwaywith this change, then i changed from a 9800 pro 128mb to an X800 XTPE and gained ZERO fps in AH.
Its not just me either other people have noticed and reported the same thing.
However for virtually any other game you care to name changing that video card will give you a big boost.
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I'd go with an overclocking friendly mobo, get the 3000+ and overclock it, and spend the extra money on the 6800GT.
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Thanks for all the advice everyone! I think I will pick up the 6800GT, if not for Aces High then it will at least help with the other games that I play.
What overclocking MB do you like eagl? I've heard good things performance wise about the MSI Neo2, but not sure what else I should be considering.
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The A64 3000+ 939 will have a price drop within the next few days. Wait for this before buying ahmm ... looks like the drop has happened - official quote from AMD is $163 for the 3000+ 939
Acetnt
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looks like the drop has happened - official quote from AMD is $163 for the 3000+ 939
:eek: That's a steal if that price is right!
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Joe I have a Gigabyte K8N Pro board but its a socket 754 board and it overclocks really easy and has a nice program that allows you to do some tweaks on system performance. I am thinking about moving up to the 939 pin A64 soon and will likely do that in the spring after I pick up the 6800 series card for christmas.
I have heard good things about that MSI board but I have never run a system with one so I will not go any farther with it.
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I've read a half dozen reviews that just LOVE the MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum for socket 939 overclocking, and if I was buying today it is most likely the board I would get. It has all the nforce3 features including their firewall built into the network controller, a whole bunch of ide and serial ATA connectors that let you mix/match drives into RAID arrays if you're into that sort of thing, and pretty much every other feature you could possibly want on a motherboard. On top of that, it seems to work quite well for overclocking especially if matched with good memory such as the OCZ or crucial ballistix stuff. Here's the wishlist I put together a week or two ago based on newegg.com prices:
New 90nm process Athlon 64 3000+ (1.8 ghz I think) just hit the street at $169
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum mobo $132
OCZ EL Platinum Rev2 Dual channel kit 2x512 meg $283
Thermaltake silent purepower 480 PSU $55
PNY GeForce 6800GT $405
I actually got an evga 6800GT but had to send it back because it was defective, and I haven't gotten around to replacing it with another 6800GT yet.
There are other options that can save you $100-$150 on the memory depending on how much you get, but I was aiming at an overclocking system so I wanted really good memory so I could push bus speeds way up. These parts are all I needed to pump up my existing system to a pretty fast up to date computer. I ended up buying just the vid card and the power supply, and deciding to hold out on everything else because my old athlon XP 2000+ is still "fast enough", so I'll save my pennies until later.
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System I have (see sig) works great.
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And i have read a lot of reports saying the Nvidia built in firewall sucks big time for online gaming.
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Before you buy ANYTHING, check this out.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njc3
Wow. The NForce4 chipset looks great. Tons of features that I anticipate will really raise the bar on motherboard design. Now I'm glad I waited on buying a new mobo because I don't NEED a new system quite yet. I expect it to be at least 6 to 9 months before these boards are on the street, somewhat debugged, and reasonably priced, but for me the wait will be worth it. If you MUST upgrade now, consider keeping your current vid card and going for the cheapest athlon64 socket 939 system you can. That way you can migrate to one of these new nforce4 boards when they are released and stable, and then buy a PCI-Express vid card instead of a new AGP one.
I'll personally probably stick with AGP for now and just hang on with my current system for a while, but enthusiasts with a brand new top of the line system and a top end AGP card are going to be kicking themselves when these nforce4 boards hit the market.
If all you want is a fast system today, then I'd say go with the wishlist I posted in the thread above. I doubt you'll be unhappy with it's performance so as long as you won't regret waiting another half a year for the newer stuff, it'll be a worthwhile purchase.
IMHO :)
edit - I haven't heard anything positive or negative about the nvidia firewall so I have no opinion other than being happy it's included and likewise pleased that it can be disabled :)
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Thanks again for the input everyone. I decided I couldn't hold out another 6 months for the Nforce4 chipset (Pacific Fighters is right around the corner after all). So I went ahead and made my purchase, but made a small detour since I found a pretty good deal on a 3400+ 939 comboed with the MSI board and some lower end 3200 Kingston memory. I don't plan to overclock at the moment so I think I can live with the memory.
Although there is some disagreement online about where this 939 3400+ came from, it seems that it really does exist and basically appears to be a 3500+ with a 800Mhz HTT instead of 1000Mhz.
I got it along with the memory and the processor for $540. Seemed like a pretty good deal.
If anyone else is interested the link is as follows:
http://www.newegg.com/app/combspecial.asp?listtype=bundle
I also got the eVGA 6800 Limited Edition with 256MB DDR3. This is another small risk because it appears to really be a 6800 Ultra clocked down to standard 6800 speeds. Everyone who has bought one so far claims that all 16 of the pipes and all 6 pixel shaders were already unlocked (as per the 6800 ultra) and some were able to overclock it to near Ultra speeds. A few even claim it came with the memory at 1100 although it only shows at 700 advertized.
If anyone is interested in it for $325 the link is as follows:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-130-212&depa=0
Now I need to find a CPU cooler, a case, and a power supply to put this baby together. I would rather not ship those (especially the case) so I'm probably going to try and find something in town. Maybe CompUSA or one of the local computer stores.
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Memory is VERY important with the 64's.
You want CAS2, anything else cripples it.
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I may be preaching to the choir here but just in case :)
Case and power supply are fairly important. Don't just get any generic stuff.
So compusa, circuitcity, bestbuy, fry's...
Antec makes good cases, sure you can get a cheap case for $40 or less but space inside could be limited or even worse some things just may not fit.
Don't skimp on the case, it'll outlive most if not everything else in your system. Good ventilation, 120mm fans front and rear should be adequate.
Power Supply:
compusa: go with Antec TruePower
circuitcity: Antec (compusa has better prices it seems)
bestbuy: Antec
fry's: Dunno what they have, antec, enermax, fortron, allied true, and maybe enlight good brands for power supplies.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Memory is VERY important with the 64's.
You want CAS2, anything else cripples it.
My personal knowledge here is quite weak, aside from your comment most of what I have read states anything beyond CAS 2.5 really isn't as important on the AMD 64 due to the memory controller being on the processor. They tend to say that it is better to spend the extra money on a better video card or processor instead of lower latency RAM.
HOWEVER, I only really got the ram I did because it was bundled with my MB and process, and it is only CAS 3. If I had purchased seperatly I probably would have given a good hard look at getting CAS 2.
I really hope I don't end up regretting the high latency RAM, althought I have heard good things about Kingston being rock solid as far as dependability.
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The fact the memory controller is on the CPU is exactly why you want CAS2 memory.
The 64s overall speed is due partly to the insanely fast memory transfer speeds.
I don't think I have ever found an article that suggests you use CAS2.5 or higher.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
The fact the memory controller is on the CPU is exactly why you want CAS2 memory.
The 64s overall speed is due partly to the insanely fast memory transfer speeds.
I don't think I have ever found an article that suggests you use CAS2.5 or higher.
I certainly didn't mean CAS 2.5 or higher, I meant CAS2.5 or "better" as in faster (ie lower).
Below is a reference to the forum where I read the advice.
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=1363653&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear
They arn't really saying it is "better" to get CAS2.5, only that it if money is an issue it is better to spend it on faster CPU/Video than on lower latency RAM (which you have to admit can be quite expensive).
However in the end I do wish I hadn't gone with the bundled RAM, but the deal was too good to pass up.
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Originally posted by Kaz
I may be preaching to the choir here but just in case :)
Case and power supply are fairly important. Don't just get any generic stuff.
So compusa, circuitcity, bestbuy, fry's...
Antec makes good cases, sure you can get a cheap case for $40 or less but space inside could be limited or even worse some things just may not fit.
Don't skimp on the case, it'll outlive most if not everything else in your system. Good ventilation, 120mm fans front and rear should be adequate.
Power Supply:
compusa: go with Antec TruePower
circuitcity: Antec (compusa has better prices it seems)
bestbuy: Antec
fry's: Dunno what they have, antec, enermax, fortron, allied true, and maybe enlight good brands for power supplies.
Thanks for the advice. I'll make a stop by compusa today and check out their Antec cases and power supplies.
Any advice on what I should get for a chip fan?
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Zalman make a nice range of solid copper, quiet heat sinks and fans.
Interesting read about the ram, one thing though -
Corsair guarentees that their TWINX memory will run at advertised speeds as they are a matched pair of sticks. If they don't you can return them for a free replacement (lifetime warranty also).
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CompUSA had some of these down here last week Joe. Personally I like the Zalman coolers but if you are grabbing something like this from CompUSA then go with this one.
Thermaltake Volcano 11 + CPU Cooler 39.99 at CompUSA.
(http://image.compusa.com/prodimages/9/338d250d-28f3-4d07-9f0b-c9c33a586a74.gif)
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Originally posted by Reschke
CompUSA had some of these down here last week Joe. Personally I like the Zalman coolers but if you are grabbing something like this from CompUSA then go with this one.
Thermaltake Volcano 11 + CPU Cooler 39.99 at CompUSA.
(http://image.compusa.com/prodimages/9/338d250d-28f3-4d07-9f0b-c9c33a586a74.gif)
Thanks a lot to both you and Kev367th. I checked the price at one of the local computer stores and they have the Zalman 7000 Alcu for around $35.00. I'm thinking I'm going to pick that up along with a Altec Sonata case and maybe a 120 GB SATA hard drive. That will pretty much complete everything I need (except for Windows XP, and I really doubt I'll be able to use my Student Edition like I could before I graduated).
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I use this Zalman, its quiet and does a great cooling job.
Don't forget your arctic silver!!!!
(http://www.zalmanusa.com/images/pr/award/2002_comdex02.jpg)
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There's this kinda sorta review of a few heatsink/fans (http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041001/athlon-underclocking-16.html#temperature_readings_of_amd_cpu_coolers)
Scroll down to where it says "Table of Contents" for page links to the full article.
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Some HS/F require you to remove the back plate off your MOBO. Others just snap on in place of the stock HSF. I have the Thermaltake Volcano, it was a snap to install.
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Just abit of info.... no need to wait 6-9 months to get your hands on nf4 chipsets. they will be out on mobos sometime in november.
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Originally posted by acetnt367th
The A64 3000+ 939 will have a price drop within the next few days. Wait for this before buying ahmm ... looks like the drop has happened - official quote from AMD is $163 for the 3000+ 939
Acetnt
Hmmm - another edit - I dont see the price change reflected on pricewatch as yet. So wait a bit before buying the 939 3000+...
Here is AMD pricelink
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_609,00.html
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I like thermalright heatsinks. I have an SLK 800 and they have some newer ones with a similiar design that work very well. The thermalright website doesn't do too good of a job (IMHO) of showing which heatsinks work on what processors, but a little research or searching for reviews should clear that up. The biggest thing I like about these heatsinks is that they are specifically designed to let you pick whatever fan you want to use, even so far as the fan size. Some of the heatsinks can use any fan from 60mm to 120mm on the same heatsink by simply changing the fan mounting clips. I have a speed controlled 80mm fan on my heatsink and that way I can choose whether it's quiet and slightly warmer or slightly louder but cooler. That's a great choice to have when overclocking and using air cooling.