Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: RedTop on October 20, 2004, 07:53:17 PM
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Kansas City Star
Teaching Ramadan in public schools
Accurate lessons in demand after 9/11
By HOLLY LEBOWITZ ROSSI
Religion News Service
During the next few weeks, multicultural trainer Afeefa Syeed will bring third-, fourth- and fifth-grade students from a Muslim academy in Herndon, Va., to nearby public schools to share the practices and beliefs of their holiest month, Ramadan.
Syeed and the children will present the call to prayer in Arabic, display prayer rugs and offer tastes of dates. In countless other classrooms across the country, similar efforts will be made to educate students about the time of fasting and spiritual reflection for adherents of the world's second-largest religion.
Ramadan, which likely will begin Oct. 15, depending on the sighting of the new moon, is making more appearances in public school classrooms, thanks to a series of new teacher training initiatives, an increased fascination with Islam and the assurance that schools, if careful, can educate impressionable children about religion without crossing a constitutional line.
The Council on Islamic Education, a nonprofit organization based in California, plans to release an updated version of its booklet “Muslim Holidays,” which was first published in 1997, for the more than 4,000 teachers nationwide who have used it.
The booklet, which contains lesson plan ideas and historical and cultural background on Ramadan and other Muslim holidays, also outlines the various state regulations governing instruction about religion in public schools and discusses accommodations that schools can make to enable Muslim students to observe the holiday.
Muslim educators note tremendous progress in education about Ramadan and Islam in general in public schools, particularly since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 — perpetrated by extremist Muslims — brought Islam into the national spotlight.
Another reason for this success, some say, is an increased general awareness in public education circles of what is constitutionally appropriate to teach about religion.
In 1995, President Clinton released “Religious Expression in Public Schools: A Statement of Principles,” guidelines on promoting the free exercise of religion in schools without endorsing a particular faith. The Freedom Forum First Amendment Center in Arlington, Va., subsequently launched a series of training initiatives to remind public school officials nationwide of the regulations concerning religion in schools.
Unlike the political situation, which has become divisive in some ways, “the educational arena came out unscathed” by increased attention on Islam since Sept. 11, said Shabbir Mansuri, founding director of the Council on Islamic Education.
Whereas Ramadan used to garner only cursory attention from public school teachers, Muslim education consultants say, interest in deeper understanding of the holiday has spiked.
“They want to know accurate information,” said Sharifa Alkhateeb, president of the Washington-based Muslim Education Council.
For teachers and administrators, as well as fellow students, explaining Ramadan helps the school accommodate the religious requirements of the holiday.
For example, at puberty, children begin to participate in the daily fast, which lasts from sunrise to sundown each day of the month. Many schools arrange for Muslim students to sit in the library during lunchtime so that they are not surrounded by food as they fast.
Educators cite Ramadan as a good opportunity to teach students about Islam and its practice. But teaching Ramadan in public schools has not been without controversy. Last year a federal judge said that the Byron Union School District in California could continue a three-week curriculum that emphasized role-playing exercises requiring, among other things, seventh-grade students to recite Muslim prayers.
Despite the ruling in the district's favor, the school suspended the program because of the outcry the lawsuit spawned.
Crucial to avoiding these kinds of problems, say educators, is understanding the difference between “teaching” and “teaching about” religion.
Role-playing exercises that require students to recite sacred words or imitate Muslim prayer practices simply are not appropriate.
“It is a wonderful method in teaching history, but when it comes to religion, we will have to modify it a bit,” Mansuri said.
Syeed, who also uses a globe in her presentation to show students that Muslims live all over the world, says her lesson plan “The Seven S's of Ramadan” highlights aspects of Islam that children of other faith backgrounds can relate to, like patience, peace and gratitude.
“It's really just to define who we are on our own terms and make the connection with a much larger, universal aspect,” she said.
Anyone here see anything here that is a double standard? Don't dare to mention God or Prayer at school, but you can teach about this? Hmmmm....Glad my kids are out of school.
:(
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Don't fret - just look at the test scores - the kids ain't listening...
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Crucial to avoiding these kinds of problems, say educators, is understanding the difference between “teaching” and “teaching about” religion.
Yup.
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So long as recruiting is absent, it's fine by me. Anyone who raises a stink beyond that, is ignorant of the actual purpose of the event.
I'd like to see the history of Festivus explained to students. That shiney pole in our living room brings a tear to my eye.
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i already know this.
It is an atempt at antiracialness. Trying to get the little kiddies to not hate muslims. That is all it is.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
i already know this.
It is an atempt at antiracialness. Trying to get the little kiddies to not hate muslims. That is all it is.
This can't be taught at home? :confused:
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I know in school they do actually teach theology. They can teach ABOUT religion and the differences but to actually practice (some say) violates the law.
I'm not for pushing religion down peoples throats....and yes I do see a double standard when it comes to christianity and everything else (although probably not so in this situation) I think it is important to teach kids about other ways of life. To not expose them to it or even explain things seems to promote ignorances. If we start teaching our kids that anything muslim is bad we become no better than the scum sucking arabs that teach their own children hate in the name of religion.
There is a line to be drawn though and the information should be as fact/FYI based as possible. Kids are gonna formulate there own opinions.....teachers should teach them about fact and its the parents job to help steer them were their goals are.
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Originally posted by RedTop
This can't be taught at home? :confused:
No the school districts don't want these kids to become racist. It creates major problems in High School.
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I'm not promoting anywhere to promote that Islam is bad. Just to make that clear. Ignorances begin at home IMO. Questions should be answered as far as relegion goes at home.
I am a christian...I have no problem with certain things not being allowed in school as to it may "Offend" someone. However....3rd , 4th and 5th graders being taught tis seems a bit over the top.
Just my opinion and 2 cents. Not flame baiting...Just seems that in this day and age of Political Correctness this is something that possibly over the top to me.
Maybe Im just to set in my ways. Maybe I'm to old...But I just have a probelm with this. My kids are grown and living thier own lives. So , this really shouldn't bother me...but I do have nephews and grandkids...Them having to participate in this would be a bother to me.
Oh Well
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
No the school districts don't want these kids to become racist. It creates major problems in High School.
So what your saying is...sort of...that it is the SCHOOLS responsibility to teach racial equality and not the home.
Is that what your saying? :confused:
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Red Top you are forgetting that if you are White, Republican, or Christian.....you are not entitled to not being offended or having "political correctness" apply to anyone when referring to you.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Red Top you are forgetting that if you are White, Republican, or Christian.....you are not entitled to not being offended or having "political correctness" apply to anyone when referring to you.
LOL...Gun...good point.
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That because most white christian republicans have no history of being biatched slapped for most of their history. Get it now?
Frankly I believe a few need it.
ooooo - sorry I really do.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
That because most white christian republicans have no history of being biatched slapped for most of their history. Get it now?
Neither do Democrat liberals
can't say anything for white or republicans.....BUT, christians have been persicuted since the begining of christianity.
But just because there is no historical Beiatch slapping involved does that justify discrimination.
If blacks had never been enslaved in the US....IE no history....would it make discrimination any less wrong?
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Originally posted by RedTop
So what your saying is...sort of...that it is the SCHOOLS responsibility to teach racial equality and not the home.
Is that what your saying? :confused:
No that's not what he said at all.
One role of schools is teaching ethical behavior and good citizenship to children. Nowhere did he say that this cannot be taught at the same time at home.
As far as the word responsibility. Parent's have no legal responsibility to teach racial equality. Public schools on the otherhand do. So it would be irresponsible of schools not to teach this.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
That because most white christian republicans have no history of being biatched slapped for most of their history. Get it now?
Frankly I believe a few need it.
ooooo - sorry I really do.
You're using a short version of history. Can you tell me the origins of the word slave?
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>>If blacks had never been enslaved in the US....IE no history....would it make discrimination any less wrong?<<
And if dumb people were smart they wouldn't be dumb - duh.
If blacks had never been victim to slavery, bought and sold for 300 years, everything would be differnent.
I guess you expect a person who's been slapped for 30 years not to duck when they see a rasied hand?
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Originally posted by Suave
No that's not what he said at all.
One role of schools is teaching ethical behavior and good citizenship to children. Nowhere did he say that this cannot be taught at the same time at home.
As far as the word responsibility. Parent's have no legal responsibility to teach racial equality. Public schools on the otherhand do.
Gotya.:)
I wasn't aware that schools were leagally responsible to teach racial equality. I'm glad they do or would. I just didn't know that it was a legal thing they had to do. ;)
See...Ole Dogs can still learn.
I can see now why Home Schooling is becoming even more popular.
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Originally posted by RedTop
Gotya.:)
I wasn't aware that schools were leagally responsible to teach racial equality. I'm glad they do or would. I just didn't know that it was a legal thing they had to do. ;)
See...Ole Dogs can still learn.
I can see now why Home Schooling is becoming even more popular.
I hope there aren't too many parents that would pull their children out of a public school because the school teaches civil rights and discourages stupidity, ie bigotry.
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Originally posted by Suave
I hope there aren't too many parents that would pull their children out of a public school because the school teaches civil rights and discourages stupidity, ie bigotry.
Wait a minute hoss...I wasn't saying a THING about bigotry. Ease up with your undertones.
1st words in this type of conversation is ALWAYS bigotry or stupidity or racists. Friggin never said that.
Teaching civil rights and and racial equality is not a problem. I was making a simple statement that School is not what I remember. And I think more parents are becoming FED FRIGGIN UP with the CRAP that kids are exposed to in school thses days.
That plain enuff for you?
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Didn't you say in effect that because public schools are obligated to teach racial equality you can understand why so many would choose to withdraw their children from public schools?
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Originally posted by RedTop
And I think more parents are becoming FED FRIGGIN UP with the CRAP that kids are exposed to in school thses days.
That plain enuff for you?
And in this particular thread the FRIGGIN CRAP is Ramadan.
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Originally posted by Suave
Didn't you say in effect that because public schools are obligated to teach racial equality you can understand why so many would choose to withdraw their children from public schools?
Nope...I didn't. Maybe you took it that way....But wasn't meant that way at ALL. :(
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No worries. Since I can't play AHII, I have to come here to shoot you guys down. It's been fun. I'm running to ack now. <4>
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See Ya:) Gonna go home to a broke PC with a Triple Meat w/Cheese and Bacon WhataBurger:lol
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I wish they would've never discontinued the Thick and Hearty burger :(
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
That because most white christian republicans have no history of being biatched slapped for most of their history. Get it now?
Frankly I believe a few need it.
ooooo - sorry I really do.
Reading your posts made me think you were racist, biased, prejudiced and intorelant and now you openly admit it... You even flaunt it, even advocate racial violence, but such are the times....
Dont even say anything, yiu have said enough....
But because you are an ignorant, arrognat, racist, and one that obviously cant control yourself or your folish pride you will say something so before you get smart with me, consider this:
I am white.
I am a chrstian..
Members of my family died in concentraiin camps.
Members of my immediate family have died due to their race/ethnic orgin in the past decade.
The very act of SLAVERY was named after people of my ethnic origin, the Slavs..
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sauve is right. schools are required by california law to teacher students moral and ethical behavior as citizens of the US.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>If blacks had never been enslaved in the US....IE no history....would it make discrimination any less wrong?<<
And if dumb people were smart they wouldn't be dumb - duh.
If blacks had never been victim to slavery, bought and sold for 300 years, everything would be differnent.
I guess you expect a person who's been slapped for 30 years not to duck when they see a rasied hand?
OK so white people in this country were never bought or sold in slave trade......that means discrimination is justifiable?
Slapped for 30 years??????? so now that that's over with we can Slap the slappers?
Seriously....as much as the Jews have been through with there persicution through out history you would now excuse them from committing genocide?
Discrimination is not limmited to "minorities", A recent article in the LA Times quoted research that mexicans (and soon to follow blacks) are no longer minorities in orange county. So does this mean whites can apply for afirmative action measures. OH but wait they're poor so they can make racist slures like "cracker" "honkey" "whitey" "donutwood" and it's all just fine.
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No it doesn't make any of it right - just why attitudes exist as they do. I mean if a woman who was beat for 30 years by a man had contempt for men, it wouldn't make it *right* but it would sure make it understandable.
Action reaction etc. You cant expect the side effects of slavery to evaporate in 50 years.
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Well what about 141 years?
That's when slavery was abolished in the US! Sure I can "understand" it and all but it still doesnt make it right.
A black person commiting a crime against a white person simply because he's white is still a hate crime.....any way you look at it. There is no excuse for it, there is no way to justify it.
I am not a white guy who feels guilty cause of what my ancestors may have done. I know it happened and I accept it but don't approve of it. To me equality means equal......not just equal if your hands or clean.....or your skins a certain color....or if you have a specific ancestory. Even if it's black on white crime by law its still a hate crime.
EDIT:
Listin to yourself tweaty.....your trying to justify discrimination because a group had it bad at one point in time in history.
Going by that standard the Irish should own NYC and the Indians should own most of the midwest.
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Yea slavery was abolished 141 years ago, but institutionalized racism was abolished about 40 years ago. Believe it or not, blacks get prosecuted for hate crimes, and all crimes - just look at the demographics of prison population. I guarantee you they are not getting off.
No one should feel guilty of what our ancestors did - we had no control over it. The only thing we need feel guilty about is refusing to recognize the effects 300 years of dehumanization can have on a people.
I'm not justifying discrimination. I'm trying to point out the folly of a fat oxycontin addicted Floridian educated by "word power" who makes his living being loud and stupid.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
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I'm not justifying discrimination.
Yes you are...
"That because most white christian republicans have no history of being biatched slapped for most of their history. Get it now?
Frankly I believe a few need it."
You are clearly calling for racial violence here... If thats not racism or discrimination then nothing is...
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No I'm not. I think all races ought to slap the loud stupid people who want to paint sociological problems as intrinsic flaws of a certain race. That ain't racism, just a lack of patience for stupidity.
I'd do it but I'm Irish. I don't get violent till I get drunk - wakes and weddings :D
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So yiu are saying "most white christan republicans" have the intrinsic problem of attributing failings to groups of people based on their race, ethinicvity or religion?
Uhmmm excuse me here tweety, yiu are doing the exact same thing...
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EXAMPLE:
on most TV and radio you can say the word "cracker" wich to me is a racial slur towards white people.....I even hear "honkey" all the time.
But say "spic" or "N-ger" or any other types of racial slurs directed at so called "minoritys" and all hell breaks loose.
Look at the ransacking of republican campagn headquaters through out the US. Is this not a hate crime? If this were a rainbow coalition HQ or something I KNOW it would be.
tweety you proven my point. If you are White, Republican, and/or Christian descrimination standards do not apply to you.
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>>If you are White, Republican, and/or Christian descrimination standards do not apply to you.
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Well you can leave out party affiliation because you will have an uphill battle claiming some grand Republican descrimination. but white Christians do have a different discrimination standard, simply because they have no great history of being dehumanized.
Things in the real world are seldom tit for tat. The histories are completely different.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>If you are White, Republican, and/or Christian descrimination standards do not apply to you.
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Well you can leave out party affiliation because you will have an uphill battle claiming some grand Republican descrimination. but white Christians do have a different discrimination standard, simply because they have no great history of being dehumanized.
Things in the real world are seldom tit for tat. The histories are completely different.
I could easily point out all the vandalism of republican signs this election and even show you video of people protesting protesters and being assaulted in the process but I think that would be a waist of time.
You do agree then that descrimination against white/christan is more acceptable. To me I find it unacceptable. Equality isn't just for minorities or people with "history".
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I'm sorry, but it is different. Equality doesn't exist in an instant, it exists over time.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
I'm sorry, but it is different. Equality doesn't exist in an instant, it exists over time.
not according to the letter of the law it doesnt
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Actually it does - er affirmative acton is the letter of the law.
And there is reasoning behind it, not all perfect, but solid reasoning behind it. A snapshot never tells the whole story. A doctor doesn't form an opinon of your cardiovascular system from one test. There are many test over time as your health can hardly ever be determined in an instant. Sociological problems require the same scrutiny.
Contrary to popular belief, pictures do lie - especially snapshots.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
but white Christians do have a different discrimination standard, simply because they have no great history of being dehumanized.
I'm sorry? Have you no idea of History?
Just in the USA alone white Irish and Italians have faced all manner of discrimination.
Further all the early 1900s european immigrants into the USA faced terrible racism, exclusion, and dehumanization.
Even WASP types faced terrible class and social discimination and intoreance in the USA up until the middle of this century, though its still here to some extent...
Many white WASP immigrants were brought here as indentured servants and endured condions ittle better than slaves.
Poor white sharecroppers suffered the same indignities wrt to living and working as free black sharecroppers.
White christian factory workers suffered terrible condions and dehunization during the worst parts of the industrial revoltion.
White christian mine workers and their familes suffered terrible dehumanization due to the working conditions and rules imposed on them...
Catholics suffered terribly at the hand of racist protest criminals like the KKK...
For centuries europe persecuted all sorts of white christians if they werent correctly christian according to the times or the country.
The white english settlers, the pilgrims, who came to america left the UK because of religious persecution and intorreance.
And so on...
Damn tweety, you really have some serious problems with your perceptions and prejudices..
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Read some more Gunnerz. I well know the the plight of Irish immigrants and how they were paid immigrant wages and had a social pecking order tied to job status. But none were chattle. There is a difference. No Irish family was broken apart because some were SOLD.
Too much Limbaugh and not enough DC. Regardless of what Rush tells you, he is a product of community college.
But hold up that lampost why duncha.
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Yes shove more sterotypes back at me tweety... I dont follow rush limbaigh programming.. But hey have your sterotypes, thats all you have to offer....
As for your feeble comment, the standard you set wasnt slavery, it was discrimination and dehumanization...You flat out stated that white christians never experienced dehumasnization or discrimination in history and I showed you otherwise...
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Actually what point is there discissinfg this with you when you clearly stated your solid feeling that certain groups of people people should be physically assaulted based only on their race...
Thats a pretty sick worldview you have there...
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No, if you read I stated white Christians don't have a history of dehumanization. And guess what - THEY DON'T. Yes, many may have suffered bigotry but they were covered under law as people and not property. They immigrated to America. Africans were imported. There is a difference.
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>>Actually what point is there discissinfg this with you when you clearly stated your solid feeling that certain groups of people people should be physically assaulted based only on their race...
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Well if thats what you're gonna hang your hat on, I'll take the proxy kill. You augered.
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And how long do you need that as crutch or an excuse for a set of failings?
For example the very act of slavery is named after my people, the SLAVS - who a very very white.. On whom do I blame my failiures?
Slavery is larely irrelevant now, the last slaves died a long time ago.
The only historic thing that matters is that blacks have only had full civil rights for some 40 years. The way to move forward from that is to focus on the future, and not ***** about the past.
You can ask anyone to forget, but you must ask people to forgive and focus on the future...
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>Actually what point is there discissinfg this with you when you clearly stated your solid feeling that certain groups of people people should be physically assaulted based only on their race...
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Well if thats what you're gonna hang your hat on, I'll take the proxy kill. You augered.
Hey, its not my problem if you think that racial violence is some laughing matter...
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Oooo - smoke and flames, engine flies through the treees - you augered DEEP. Splat.
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Oh no, here is another nutjob who cant argue his stances and so switches to AH game metaophors or saying that he will kick my arse in the game...
:rofl
Its obvious to me that we wont agree, you are ignorant racist and I am a normal sane person...
Have a nice life and, of course, kill whitey...
:rofl :aok
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Dang I think he hit oil!...
edit (don't be mad, there are many more worlds problems we need to solve)