Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Wraith on March 26, 2000, 07:22:00 PM
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If you've flown against me, you know IM the one who needs the advice and the tips... so let em roll in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
PD: Any P-38 lovers, contact me, I'm trying to form a P-38 squadron (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Been flying the P38L all ToD. Doing ok in the plane but there's a lot I still have to learn with this bird.
Anyway, here are something out of my bag-o-tricks:
1. Shoot only 20mms so grab smaller of two gun packages - 2-3 pings usually mean death to bogey.
2. P38L climbs pretty well so I always try to fight in the verticle.
3. Roll at high speed is pretty good...dive and roll to escape.
4. Rudder works great at low speeds. Use rudder at low speeds at top of loop to bring her nose around for reversal...kinda like a hammer head.
I'm still learning with this bird so pass on the tips!
Ex.
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Don't try to turnfight in it until they fix the flaps. I fly the Spitfire and a turning P-38 makes me drool.
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...and makes me bleed.
I've been reading some P-38 ace's bio's and notes... here's the 3 Goldcn Rules of Tommy McGuire (38 kills)
->Never attempt combat at low altitude.
->Never let your airspeed fall below 300 miles per hour.
->Never keep your wing tanks on in a fight.
[This message has been edited by Wraith (edited 03-26-2000).]
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Funked is right on, a p38 without flaps that work like they should is a strickly boom & zoom plane. Without them it's impossible to make the tight turns it's famous for. Remember, a 38 should be able to turn right with a zeke for the first circle if speed & flaps are right.
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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
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As the P-38 is now, the stall horn will immediatly start complaining about a 2G pull from about 225mph.
Keep it fast, but not too fast. The elevator comes off during high speed dive pull outs if you are not real easy on the stick.
Have not really noticed much difference in the two ammo load outs as far as aircraft performance. The timing of the small ammo load is perfect. You run out of cannon and MG at the same time.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-27-2000).]
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When you spy a bogy coming at about 5k in range start a gentle dive towards them - 2K rate of decent. I use WEP too if they are closing fats. Built that "E"!!!
Then at about 1200-1000 I start pulling up with the phenomenal zoom climb the 38 has . An Immelman or two will put you above almost all enemy (even if they had good E too) and you can pick em apart from above.
There is a sweet spot at low speeds that will let you literally flip that P-38 right around on an opponant and the two time sI found it I bagged the bogy.
Course, as Funked said, do NOT turn fight slow or you will be dog meat. It's what I usually end up doing regardless it seems. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I usually up with 25% fuel and a drop tank.
Depending on where a bogy may be I may or may not drop the tank. If coalt or higher that sucker is GONE. If the con is lower I keep it till I find that extra weight and drag are, or will soon be, a hinderance.
[This message has been edited by Stuart Smalley (edited 03-28-2000).]
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I do not like 38 for some personal reason -- my favourite writer, Ekzepuri (I am not sure how to spell his name, read him only in Russian translations) was killed in the 38. That is why I flied it in AH only couple of times, and unlikly that will fly often.
But if you want some advices from someone who fighted against it, then:
1) Better wait, till it will be modelled right. Many bird in AH were remodeled after implementation. Normally it takes couple of patches/releases.
2) Boom and zoom.
3) Watch your e, do not bleed it too much.
4) If in a bad situation -- run away, your speed let you that, so use it.
5) Use your perfect climb rate when possible, staying higher is your best chance against other fighters.
Hope, that helps,
Fariz
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Been flying and dieing in 38 almost whole TOD this time. I've been using the 20mm and .5's togeather. Finally reprogrammed for primary only option as well. The 4x.5's will dish reasonable punishment on front aspect snap shots. The 38 seems completely incapable of handling a well flown spit under almost any circumstances. The spits turn/acceleration makes it deadly on rev into a 38 regardless of E state. Unless you rope em and nail em as they flounder your very vulnerable to the HO or front aspect shot on any rev.
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Emanciated, anorexic P-38's and Spitfires on steroids... v2.01 where art thou? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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fly the 38 like a 109 and stay above all ugly badness as much as you can. untouchable when flown this way at 25 to 30k.
1 v 1 spit co alt... run away... you're outnumbered
109s are nasty, cant turn with them either nor out climb them (cant run from g10), gotta use that pilot toejam on em (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
p51's: if extending... climb above them and come back (cant out turn 51 either which is B.S. but can out climb them)
basically if you cant out turn it be above it. if you cant out run it be above it
full ammo (more is better) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
spin recovery: opposite rudder, full forward on elevator dont overcontrol the rudder and spin the other way.
cheers
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CitabriAirbatiC
"There Is No Spoon"
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Stuart, I think you better edit your sig, otherwise we may all find out who you really are. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (I'm still trying to figure out who Curly was. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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->Never attempt combat at low altitude.
->Never let your airspeed fall below 300 miles per hour.
->Never keep your wing tanks on in a fight.
And if Tommy hadn't forgotten his third rule he may have still been alive today!
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'
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Actually, he broke all 3 of them. Then became a lawn dart (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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But he was RECOVERING at the time....He would have lived but for that palm tree...Mcguire was one of the best pilots ever born.As for the P-38..It was the best fighter/interceptor of its time.ALL the top US aces flew the p-38
As some of you know, I'm personally aquanted with Marge Bong and the Bong family.Through Marges good graces, I have seen the reports of combat action by Dick Bong and Tom Lynch..they were a team,and a good one.The thing that made ANY plane great was the callibre of pilot in the seat.If the P-38 is flown properly, anyone who is skilled can use it effectively.Two well flown P-38's are a formidable threat.Sorry about the rant..Duke
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I'm waiting, as currently modeled the 38 is at a serious disadvantage in any 1 on 1 engagement with a co-alt bogie...literally any plane in current set (IMO). Obviously at some point pilot ability may overcome the plane's weakness, but within reason if you meet anything co-alt in the MA in a 38 you have problems.
just my 2 cents
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The P-38 at a disadvantage against any plane co-alt?
I know its not the uber bird it was when it lacked any drag (rightly so), but I wouldn't say that at all.
In fact, against the Pony, the Hog, a late 109 or the 190, the 38 should win easily, unless they choose to run. It will outturn any of those planes, and go into the vertical much easier. Its only disadvantage is its large size against the snap shot of the -1c.
No, it won't turnfight a Spitfire, a C.205, or a N1K2, but then again it shouldn't.
The P-38 has always been a middle of the road aircraft in performance, that doesnt' excell in any one category, but is good in all. It just means you fight different planes in different ways.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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38 should turn with a spitfire or 109g6 or n1k2 easy in my opinion. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Why is that Citabria? Honest question.
I know the P-38 had a reputation for being a good turning aircraft, but that was in comparison to other American Aircraft.
Your comparing relatively small agile aircraft, versus what is a huge heavy behemoth.
Nothing in the numbers I have ever seen would indicate to me that the P-38 should be turning with Spitfires.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Heck no, the 38 can't turn with a mono-engined plane at med-high speeds, but at low speeds it turned REAL well (pre-stall of course).
The ONLY thing that really screw up the 38 now is underpowered engines... I say make em 1/3rd or even 1/6th! more powerful.
I'd like to know the Horsepower rating/per engine that HT is using on the 38, it seems to me, IMHO, that it's runing on MULE power now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Check this out:
improved P-38; self-sealing fuel tanks
improved P-38D; 20mm cannon
improved P-38E; V-1710-49 & 53
improved P-38F; V-1710-51 & 55
improved P-38G; V-1710-89 & 91
improved P-38H
P-38G 42-13558 w/ V-1710-75 & 77
improved P-38J; V-1710-111 & 113
Vultee-built P-38Ls
P-38L mod. as night fighter
SPECIFICATIONS (P-38L)
Span: 52 ft.
Length: 37 ft. 10 in.
Height: 12 ft. 10 in.
Weight: 17,500 lbs. loaded
Armament: Four .50-cal. machine guns and one 20mm cannon
Engines: Two Allison V-1710s of 1,475 hp. ea.
Cost: $115,000
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 414 mph
Cruising speed: 275 mph
Range: 1,100 miles
Service Ceiling: 40,000 ft. <--------WHOOHOO
HT: If you're reading this, check out this WONDERFUL page that has ALL American WW2 fighters: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/pursuit.htm (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/pursuit.htm)
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my bad, thats the p38J that should do what I mentioned above (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Citabria, the P-38J from block number -25 and later, were almost identical to the P-38L. Performance should be very similar.
I looked at Pyro's published data in the help section. It matches identically to the data in the P-38 pilots manual, and to the data from "America's Hundred Thousand"(Best reference book on American Fighters ever written).
Wraith, one way I can think to test and see if the engines are underpowered is to do a climb rate test, since power to weight ratio is critical to climbrate. Load it with 100% fuel, no droptanks or external ordinance. Take off, and set autoclimb, and then record climbrate every 2,000ft. If it matches Pyro's #'s the horsepower is corret.
To me, the P-38 is a delight to fly, and my preferred vulch machine. In my opinon, if anything, the Aces High P-38 is too good. It doesn't show the initial roll inertia, that every source I can find describes. Hell, the N1K2 shows more roll inertia than the P-38.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Will do that.
My gripe is not on the climb rate though, I find that the plane picks up speed quite slowly, even on a shallow dive. When at 2K and you do a shallow (15 to 20 degree) dive until you cut the lawn, speed doesn't go over 250 or 300. For a heavy plane with 2 engines on WEP this is hard for me to grasp how this can happen. And no, my gear aint down, flaps are up and everything is centered (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I like the 38, its my 2nd choice to fight, will be my first when flaps are fixed. I turn in it, boom in it do what I want in it, no problems really. IMHO its about equal to the spit, and is easily a match for 109s and hogs. Just waiting for the flaps to get fixed.
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Dnil
JG-2
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer (http://www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer)
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I've flown against the 38 in almost every plane in current set. My personal feeleing is that in a co-e/alt merge the 38 is at a disadvantage. The two best match ups for it are the Hog (1c) and the 190. Those two planes will have to utilize there roll rate and better rudder response (the 190 especially since it's slower). I've flown more than a few great 1 on 1's vs jinx in the TA in a 205 vs a 1d..he constantly amazes me with his ability to fight that thing against a decidedly superior T&B aircraft (IMO). Based on the closeness of the 205 vs F4U-1d match up I dont think a 38 can mix it up with a well flown 1d in any thing other than a B&Z mode.
I don't believe that a 38 has a prayer 1 on 1 against a decent pony driver co-alt, or against a 109 G10 under any circumstances but a pure B&Z.
Now pilot skill will enter the equation. I'm certain that there are more than a few folks here who can simply outfly me...and many others in anything...But, if I'm in a 1 on 1 duel and i could force plane choice on opponent I'd put him in a 38 and fly anything else and think Im getting an edge.
I don't think the 38 flies nearly as well in the vertical as the pony does...again this is just my opinion and is based on my current skill set. I'm always open to learning and would love to find someone who can coax more out of the twin eggbeater than I can..since it's my 1st choice in the MA I'm looking to improve. Now, with E I think it's deadly against all comers.
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First, a disclaimer, some of the following experience may not relate directly to Aces High as it was learned in a different sim with Different modeling.
HOWEVER, from everything that I have read on the subject, and from seeing them fly once in real life (and yes that pilot put it through ti's paces REAL nicely)
And from 4 years experience in Brand W.
There are 2 planes I truly fear when I'm flying my fav zeke. One is the 190, (hate em, nuff said). The other is the p38. They are not just faster, dive faster, climb faster, they have with the use of combat flaps 1 (one) near instantanous turn in them.
I mean for one time around the circle the p38 will hang with the best turning plane in WWII! Don't believe me? Try going up against the likes of =worr= sometime in a zeke.
Now, what should the p38 do in AH?
It should EASILY turn with the p38 ONCE! Given near equal E & alt. It should give the N1K2-j FITS! (Although you have to watch for the snap shot)
Fix the flaps, and we'll see what we have.
Disclaimer, all the above is strickly personal experience and may have no verifiable justification in fact.
In other words, My opinion, for what it's worth.
Ghosth
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Aye, I am aware of the non-existent turn rate of the 38, hopefully the flaps or whatever they put on the next version will fix that, but that is a known thing.
I really hate to b*tch about this over and over, but am I the only one that seems to notice a slowness in the 38? Its not slow as in it wont go over 300, gods no! The thing is FAST!. But the rate at which it picks up the speed (aceleration) is very poor! I can be on a level flight with WEP on and it takes ages for it to get above 250.. after 250 it goes to hyperspace (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) .
Jus' curious to know if anyone else notices this, IMHO, its what kills the 38..it can't regain one drop of E on level flight. Threats, donations, I-pity-you-dweeb notes welcome (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LOL!!! Wraith if you think the 38 accelerates slow, fly a few sorties in the F4U, then come back and tell us what you think (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Ghost, I agree with you that the 38 will turn great for a single turn, after that its gonna be in trouble against the likes of Spitfire, early 109's, and the N1K2. And you wanna guess how many people are being disciplined and only turning a single time? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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some fuel to the fire:
the real p38L had a mil power rpm setting of 3000rpm's
the AH p38L will only go to 2700rpm's
the question is...
Is the gauge wrong?
Or is the Lightning underpowered?
"The two Allison V-1710F-30 V-12s had a 5.5 in. bore and 6.0 in stroke, providing a compression ratio of 6.5. These drove Curtiss Electric constant speed props via a 2:1 reduction gear, delivering 1,475 HP military and takeoff ratings at 3,000 RPM, or 1,612 HP maximum rating at 3,000 RPM and 60 in. of manifold pressure. Some later engines are described as delivering up to 1,725 HP WEP rating. The engines required 100 octane or higher rated fuel, and had 13 USG oil capacity. The oil was cooled in two outboard chin core radiators, vented via automatically controlled flaps on either side of the nacelle. Fuel consumption was 0.65 lb/HP./hr at 1,100 HP normal rating, at 2,600 RPM."
The B-33 turbochargers drew air from outboard scoops on the booms, feeding central chin core intercoolers with automatic temperature control, which in turn fed the carbs. The B-33 was redlined at 26,400 RPM and exhausted upward, ejector hoods were not used due the device's intolerance of any significant backpressure.
"Every one of these problems was solved with the introduction of the P-38L."
"Let me repeat this again and again. It can never be emphasized too strongly. It makes up the Gospel Word. The P-38L. Now there was the airplane."
"Nothing, to these pilots, after the hard winter of 1943-44 could be more beautiful than a P-38L outrolling and tailgating a German fighter straight down, following a spin or split-S or whatever gyration a startled, panicked and doomed German might attempt to initiate. You just couldn't get away from the P-38L. Whatever the German could do, the American in the P-38L could do better." (cited from [8] with permission from Arthur W. Heiden).
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/9485/ (http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/9485/)
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And you wanna guess how many people are being disciplined and only turning a single time?
Yes, Im one of them.. I NEVER turn unless im being jumped.And I hate it when im at 550 after a dive in which I jump someone and the spit I just dived on does a tight, E-bleeding 180 turn and catches up with me in less than a minute because the 38 speed at level flight goes DOWN to 410 even if its on WEP after being on 550 mph...and when you stop mowing the grass to clear a small hill the speed drops to 340..never to go up again since the spit catches up.
Some things I just never understand *sigh*
Wait a minute, I just sumarized my entire P-38 life here...wow.
[This message has been edited by Wraith (edited 04-06-2000).]
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38L outruns a spit9 down low. just dont climb more than a few hundred feet per minute.
550mph? at that speed i always loose ailerons and all my elevator
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bump...so HOW much has changed?
xBAT
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id say... Zilch!
Check back in "2 weeks" ;)
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
Why is that Citabria? Honest question.
I know the P-38 had a reputation for being a good turning aircraft, but that was in comparison to other American Aircraft.
Your comparing relatively small agile aircraft, versus what is a huge heavy behemoth.
Nothing in the numbers I have ever seen would indicate to me that the P-38 should be turning with Spitfires.
In comparison with other American aircraft? Not at all! The Lightning had a turn rate and radius that were quite close to that of the Spitfire, and an initial turn that was better. Weight has nothing to do with it; the P-38 had one of the best wing loadings in WWII for any fighter aircraft, if not the best. Somewhere around 20 lbs/sq. inch, as I recall. Which, by the way, is better than the Spitfire (27-29 lbs/sq inch, I believe).
It also had a lot more power to keep turns coming, and P-factor helped in the instantaneous turn.
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Slightly OT, but in response to FARIZ...
the writer's full name was Antoine de Saint-Exupery. He disappeared over the English Channel during a (unarmed, I believe) P-38 reconnaissance mission. I had read in Aviation Week a couple of years ago that they located his plane under water, but never heard anything further than that.
My favorite story of his is "Night Flight".
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Originally posted by Dux:
Slightly OT, but in response to FARIZ...
the writer's full name was Antoine de Saint-Exupery. He disappeared over the English Channel during a (unarmed, I believe) P-38 reconnaissance mission. I had read in Aviation Week a couple of years ago that they located his plane under water, but never heard anything further than that.
My favorite story of his is "Night Flight".
You mean the guy that wrote The Little Prince?
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Yup. :)
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Actually, Saint Exupery died off the coast of Bastia in the Mediterranean Sea. My grandfather, Pierre Siegler, was in his squadron and they were buddies as they were both older than most everyone else in the squad. They flew the unarmed photo recon version of the P-38 called the F-5A. My mother tells me that St. Ex was late for what proved to be his final mission and my grandfather decided to fly the mission in his stead. He was taxiing to the strip when St. Ex came running to the field waving his arms. My grandfather got out, St. Ex got in, and no one ever saw him again.
German logs say that he was shot down by two pre-production FW 190-D9s on July 31, 1944. He was used to open air bi-planes and hated the P-38. He said he felt less like a pilot and more like an accountant sitting down in front of a pile of adding machines- too many switches and knobs and dials to interfere with the flying.
As they flew for the Free French and it is my connection to flying and WWII in general, I have started a Free French squadron here and am trying my damndest to fly the P-38 but I suck at it! This plane is impossible. I do fine with the Yak (flown by the Free French in Russia) and I can even fly the P-47 better than that blasted P-38. But I'm going to stick with it because I HAVE to! Why, oh, why couldn't my grandfather have flown a Spit... or a Yak, or an F-4U, or anything else for that matter?
I'm a little encouraged to hear that the flaps are wrong, or were last year. Anyone know if the modelling is improved now or is it all just my pathetic skills?
Please keep the tips coming!
Thanks,
Rust
(http://www.rocketace.net/rust.jpg)
The Free French Air Force
P.S. They recently found the wreck but the distant family of St. Exupery do not want it raised. They dislike the idea of concrete evidence of his death. They preferr to imagine him vanishing in the air like his little prince. I hope this silliness gets overridden as many, including me, would be interested in seeing the machine in which he flew and any artifact which serves to sustain the public's interest in WWII and flying is a good one for me.
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Can any one say what the dive flaps (shift-C) *should* do, compared to what they *do* do?
I routinely engage them when on a dive run (The spit is my preferred A 2 A ride, the P38 my preferred Jabo)and I can't honestly notice any difference.
In AW (where I'm from) the P38 had dive brakes. Was this correct? and should AH introduce it? (not a P38 expert....)
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They added flaps on the lower surface of the wing to restore normal airflow over the elevator after encountering shock waves forming on the wing during high speed dives. This eliminated the "tuck-under" problem that could make the 38 impossible to pull out of a dive.
Cheers,
/ft
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Originally posted by ispar:
the P-38 had one of the best wing loadings in WWII for any fighter aircraft, if not the best. Somewhere around 20 lbs/sq. inch, as I recall. Which, by the way, is better than the Spitfire (27-29 lbs/sq inch, I believe).
It also had a lot more power to keep turns coming, and P-factor helped in the instantaneous turn.
LOL sry but that is so funny i cant even believe u really posted that, i have done a wing loading calculation for most late war AH birds at normal loaded conditions and empty weight (tabell is at home, will give exact data when i am back there), but the P38 had the highest wingloading of em all, somewhere over 50lbs/square foot if i remember right.
i personally never thought that wingloading is the number one factor for turning, but the AH community seems to give this factor the major attention when comparing turning circle and speed.
I know from comparative test with and FW190 by the RAF that the P38 was able to outturn the FW190 at 280- Km/h ( flaps 1 deployed) at all speeds above the 190 was the better.
I dont think the P38 turns to bad in AH, when flying it a couple of times last tour, i was estonished how easy u could swing her around and keep E. Also i found the turnrate pretty impressive for a bird of that size.
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Originally posted by rust:
P.S. They recently found the wreck but the distant family of St. Exupery do not want it raised. They dislike the idea of concrete evidence of his death. They preferr to imagine him vanishing in the air like his little prince. I hope this silliness gets overridden as many, including me, would be interested in seeing the machine in which he flew and any artifact which serves to sustain the public's interest in WWII and flying is a good one for me.
As a french grown reading st Ex I too dislike this idea.
What about diging grave to expose the remain of Victor Hugo for exemple ? what a bad idea (and a non respect of the poete :()
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The fowlers added wing surface... considerable I think. The twin props backwash gave the wings added stablity at low speeds. The "wash" kept the airflow on the wings for abit longer. The P-38 was an unusal fighter... it was a plane with some strange "abilities" due to its unique design.
xBAT
[ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
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I have flown the P38 a bit this tour and I have been REALY disapointed in its performance in AH. I have studied the P38 for most of my life I loved the look of the P38 as a kid and I also loved the A6M5 and Spitfire..... BUT. I have found that the AH modeling of the P38 "lighting" has made it a P38 "Lightfixture" It is anything but a great plane in AH I have had a few good sorties in it and I have had several bad ones.
I.E. I was at around 25K when I happened appon a Seafire 10K below me. I began a gental turn to get me on his high six then began a shallow dive on it... this is where it gets sad The spit took evasive actions I turned once with him with flaps at 1 notch then climbed away I retracted flaps and lined up again. Then when I came down again the spit just started to out run me in a dive, now I know and U know a Seafire can not out dive any P38 I was doing about 350 IAS and accelerating and he just kept out running me I climbed away and let him go. But he out ran me in level flight too. I may have not managed the E properly but I doubt it I let him go because it pissed me off so bad I didnt see a point in it.
As for a atk plane it is super.
Hodo
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Thanks Rust, great story.
As for the P-38 in AH, it's a love/hate thing. I've always loved the plane, and my perception of it's characteristics just don't match the AH "reality".
Of course I have no idea which one is closer to the truth.
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Hodo...use rudder to control speed... dive flaps on before dive and elevator trim to control dive... and hope for the best.
xBAT
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I do but I am still kinda new to the use of the trim functions in here. I need to find a better place to put there settings instead of keyboard.
Hodo
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I've watched others, in awe, fly and score kills in the P-38. I've flown her with 25% gas, everything cleaned up, taken her nice and high and the most I see is just under 300mph. I've been disappointed in the p-38 since I just can't seem to wring any speed out of her, and in a fight, I'm toast. One turn and the stall horn is going. Dive to regain speed or make an attack, and there's that dang compression.
On the Pro side, its pretty fun against GVs since its fast and carries 2 1K bombs and rockets, plus those cannons. I'm just in awe at how one ping always kills BOTH engines.
I agree with what many of you are saying. This P-38 seems pretty anemic in power. As to the rest, well, we're still learning....
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I seem to recall a story out a book I lent to a friend about 10 yrs ago and never saw it again about how a Lightning pilot couldn't get any respect from the Brit Spit pilots and challenged their best to a friendly duel...and won. I had the paperback version of whatever book this was and wish I could remember the title. I think it was a bunch of stories by pilots from WW1 to Vietnam. I recall another story, not sure if same pilot, who went into a circle turnfight with a LW pilot before both disengaged and later after the war the pilots were talking with each other and the story came up and it was them. The LW might've been Galland, not sure.
I'm starting to just now fly the P-38 in AH and after flying the F4U-1D for a tour, it doesn't seem all that big of a change.
-Puke
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I fly the 38 a lot and like all others I die a lot too. The biggest weakness I find is it compresses so early - it is almost impossble to run from anything because it compresses way before anything else.
Someone posted earlier they only get 2700RPM at WEP not 3000 - I have tried mine and get performance right at the manual - 3000 and 60" boost. One slight deviation from the manual - Max power (54" and 2700) is only allowed for 15 mins - max CONTINUOUS is .... errrr.... (manual not handy) 45" I think - will check later. I think there must be a lot of other a/c with this error - WEP limits are modeled correctly - why not max power and max continuous??
Things I like - it zooms really well and it shallow climbs better than most (except the G10) - I tend to try to use this as an escape mode form a co-alt bandit - set 250 on auto-speed and WEP and let her go.
As for turning I agree with most that against a well flown Spit your lunch but I find the flaps do help. My favourite opponent is an F4 or early 109. If I see a NIKI I know I'm dead. As soon as speed goes below 200 I'm looking for flaps and never less than 2 notches. I have tried to surprise the occasional Spit driver by chopping throttle and chucking out 4 notches and you can turn well enough down to about 140 then - can sometimes catch them off guard.
If you want to go buff hunting a light 38 is the business - excellent climb all the way.
The BIG thing I like about the 38 is no torque - if you take a big loop or immelman then the singles are starting to roll out of plane as the speed drops over the top but the 38 keeps straight as a die.
As far as turn performance is concerned there was a previuos thread where Badboy clearly demonstrated with the figures that the flight model was wrong and the 38 should be turning better at all speeds - what became of that discussion ????? The performance of the 38 has been considered out of sorts for a long while now - Pyro ????
Oh and lastly on the front cover of my pilots operating handbook there is a photo of a 38 with 7 rockets on each wing - how come we only have 10 ??
Sparks
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Well guys, I gave it a try last night, with many of the suggestions you made. Went up with 25% fuel and ext tanks, which lasted quite a while, up through cruise and all. Dumped them at 27k and hit the WEP, thinking this thing will do 300. Nope. Nose down a bit to gain speed, once I hit 300, she's bouncing all over the sky, compressing badly. I pull power and kick down the dive brake, anything to regain control, and even that does little. I engage the autopilot and that brings me back to level with the associated groaning of the structure. Hmmm, she wont go fast, she compresses in a heartbeat, why did I take this plane up again?
As I slowly descend to 15k, I spot some cons, Niks. Im doing just under 300, about 275 Id estimate, and once I begin a turn to join the fight, the stall buzzer is wailing. To appease the buzzer, I kick on the wep to keep the airspeed up and attempt to turn with the con. As I do, she suddenly drops to one wing, goes inverted, and its too late, lawn dart.
I'm totally at a loss to explain this airplane. I've managed to wring some performance out of the P-51 but I can't pull the same magic on this bird. Is there a routine I'm missing? Throw salt over right shoulder, etc? :) So far, its been a really maddening experience.
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Do you use a twisty stick? I swear since I've gotten rudder pedals I seldom spin. I have taken a belly flop dirt nap though... :)
Oh and as far as the compression... if you look thier is a BIG difference in the IAS and TAS... thats why it seem like it compresses so early, its just way fast up high.
xBAT
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38 will compress at lower speeds when at high alts, will compress at higher speeds when at lower alt (that meaning below 20k).
My only gripes with the plane are the ineffective dive flaps, the grossly underperforming fowler flaps (I think HTC has said ALL flaps in the game were not working properly... anyone confirm this?) and the g-damn glass armour on it. Ping it and snap goes a wing or the tail...instantly.
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Originally quoted by TAC
38 will compress at lower speeds when at high alts, will compress at higher speeds when at lower alt (that meaning below 20k).
Tac - you realise compression is determined by True Airspeed not Indicated airspeed ??
True airspeed is shown on the ASI by the red marker and Indicated airspeed is what is shown by the pointers. At 27k they can be 100 or more mph different. The aircraft should compress at the same TRUE airspeed and that is my experience of it - I usually see onset of buffet at about 480 true and stick out the dive boards - anything above 520 and you're in deep doo-doo.
As far as stall characteristics - I flew it again yesterday and was trying to evade a NIKI - was down to 150 with 3 notches of flap out and the buzzer going but as long as you don't yank it about too abruptly she will be ok. What I do find is that when slow if you get a sink rate going it is very hard to stop it - it will not accelerate well on engine thrust alone at low speed.
Sparks
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I thought this was an interesting read P38 flight (http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/p-38_lightning/p-38_lightning_1.asp) note his comments on differential engine useage
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: JimBear ]
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Yea... I wonder if that works here? I messed with indiv engines but the keyboard to control the engines doesnt seen to work to well :(
xBAT
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That's gotta be a typo for the wing area.
Dwarf
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sparks: the air up there is thinner.
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You are partly correct Naudet - I was very far off. The true wingloading of the Lightning (L) was about 39 lbs/sq. inch. Not 50.
Part of what allowed the Lightning to turn so well was P-factor. The bigger bite of air taken by the descending propeller blades helped to pull the nose around when turning. I also believe that the long horizontal stabilizer was probably very beneficial in that regard.
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Think we'll see any more version of p-38 soon? Just wondering.
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Originally posted by Dux:
My favorite story of his is "Night Flight".[/QB]
I learned about St. Ex in a book of flying stories by Richard Bach...the story was about getting to know dead flyers by reading what they wrote.
Went straight out and bought the book "Airman's Odyssey", which is three stories by the man himself. it contains 'Nightflight', 'Wind Sand & Stars', and 'Flight to Arras'.
Wind Sand and Stars is the experience that led him to write 'The Little Prince' that we all grew up reading. Flight to Arras was written about recon flight just before the fall of France.
He was, to my mind, the one writer who changed early pilots from truck drivers to artists...he was the poet pilot. A thoughtful tractor operator. A reflective factory worker. Hard to imagine flying without art now...but in his time it was a rare thing.
"There would be nothing to say to-morrow. To-morrow, in the eyes of the bystanders, we would be the defeated. The defeated have no right to speak. No more right to speak than has the seed."
Antoine De Saint-Exupery
Flight to Arras, 1940
Thanks for reminding me to read this one again!
8=X Col PapaH
Cutthroats Mercenary Company
nullnull
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Rust...what a great post!
Thank you for sharing it with us.
PapaH
Cutthroats Mercenary Company
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I noticed that up the thread aways Kingonads wrote:
I was at around 25K when I happened appon a Seafire 10K below me. I began a gental turn to get me on his high six then began a shallow dive on it... this is where it gets sad The spit took evasive actions I turned once with him with flaps at 1 notch then climbed away I retracted flaps and lined up again. Then when I came down again the spit just started to out run me in a dive, now I know and U know a Seafire can not out dive any P38 I was doing about 350 IAS and accelerating and he just kept out running me I climbed away and let him go. But he out ran me in level flight too. I may have not managed the E properly but I doubt it I let him go because it pissed me off so bad I didnt see a point in it.
Do you know what fighter had the highest critical mach of all prop fighters in WWII? Yes, the Spit. It did not suffer from compression as badly as the P-38, which was possibly the worst in this regard. That said, I don't know why you expect to out-dive a Spit. The spit will out-dive the 38 every time... it will accellerate well in a dive and retain control at higher speeds than the 38 will. The 38 might gain on it in the middle part of the dive before compression sets in, but if the Spit has enough alt he's gone and you won't stay with him in a dive. You shouldn't expect to. If you want to catch spits in a dive bring a Jug or a 51. :)