Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Simaril on October 22, 2004, 07:20:16 AM
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I've played for 7 months or so, and gone from raw newbie with lifelong love of ww2 aviation to a solid, unspectacular journeyman player. I've tried almost every arena, and I've used most every ride. I love the variety.
I'm puzzled by the overwhelmingly negative attitudes I see here towards the MA. I've read lots of general comments -- "Air Quake", "gameplay's shot", "isnt the same" -- and I realize there's something there because people are leaving the game.
But I don't understand what the something is.
General statements, like the Ch 200 "this sucks", don't clarify. Please help me see what you guys who've played for years are missing, and if you can be concrete and specific so I can "get it". I've never played airwarrior or warbirds, so I just dont know what you guys dont like, and what you miss from the good old days.
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Simaril. I'm not trying to come off as a wise arse but if you're enjoying the MA then don't waste your time asking others why they do not anymore.
The chances are overwhelming that one day you will also grow bored with the age old, fantasy "main arena" style setup and when you do you'll have your own answer.
Right now all you'll get is everyone elses answer as to why they dislike or have outgrown an MA environment which may or may not be the saem as yours several months or several years down the road.
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If people were saying "I'm tired of the same old stuff" I could see that. But I'm seeing people who've played for years say that since AH2 (or the ENY, or fuel porkage changed, or whatever) things are different. I want to see what they are missing.
I'm not trolling for trouble. Being concrete and specific helps everybody, because if definable problems can be identified then solutions can be derived.
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Simaril
Im relativly new to AH2, well a noob to be honest.
Ive done 2 trials in the past and now no my 3rd attemnt Im hooked. Im currently flying my 2nd tour.
But here is whats "wrong with the MA" for me and this is actually the reason why it took me 3 attempts to get hooked. The 3 trails where like 10-12 months apart. Reason I kept giving the game a new chance is that I love WW2 aviation and WW2 sims.
Basicly for me whats wrong is the setup. The bish, rook and knight thing. The fact that every nation has the same planes. For my brain it´s very hard to digest the fact that P51s and 109s fly on the same wing shooting P51s and 109s.
I have looked at some other games that have either axis vs allies setup or nation vs nation setup. Though these games cant nearly compete with the flight engine of AH so they are a no no for me.
What I had to do is to find a plane that is a decent ride and not a very common plane in the MA so I dont run around shooting "my" plane alot. After some reading up I decided to go with the Yak.
Ive actually managd to get past my "hate" for the setup due to this. Though still its comming back to me when I look back and see a Yak on my tail. I usually just swich bases to fly out of when I see enemy Yaks in the area Im at. It works reasonably well.
Next thing that takes away from the enjoyment in the MA for me is the hoarding. For me AH is about learning to become a good pilot. I want challange and I want intense fighting. The hoard takes away alot of preasure on ME to preform as I can relay so heavily on others to do the dirty work.
Im trying to always pick areas on the map that arnt hoarded but with the way its going for the rooks these days its hard. We get over run and either we have like 10-15 bases when I log on (not much choise to find hoard free fights) or we have a hoard attacking one field and leaving the others totally unportected.
While I want challange fighting 1v5, 2v10, 3v10 ect ect is still too hard for me to do.
These (hoarding and setup) are the two main things that suck with the MA for me.
This said though Ive found ways to get around it to enjoy AH and Im enjoying the game ALOT atm.
The main reason for people leaving the game is imho that there are sooo many players that have played the game for soooo long. Game play of the game hasnt change in any really drastical ways for quite some time. Its still 3 nations, air, naval and ground based base taking game. One cant play the same game for years and years and years without getting boored.
People need reasons to justify them leaving a game because its hard to just say "Ive done it for so long its no longer fun, I need something new to do". Its much easier to say "eny is ruining my fun" because it takes the "blame" away from one self and puts it on another party (the devs). Its much easier to point fingers then admit something.
Ive seen this in soo many games that´s why I always read "quitting posts" with a huge grain of salt.
Tex
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The answer is some people come here expecting the wrong game. They come with the expectation of re-living WW2, of placing themselves in the shoes of Galland or Bong or Sakai or someone of the sort, and instead find an open-ended free-for-all that only happens to use WW2 equipment. Such people are understandably disappointed.
I for one have always liked the fee-for-all nature of the open-ended ahistorical arena, although Air Warrior did it a little better than AH does. AH: ToD will likely appeal to the more historically-minded.
J_A_B
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Agree with Westy, Tex and JAB. ;)
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Originally posted by Simaril
But I don't understand what the something is.
People get burnt out and tired of the game. It happens in everything......people come and go all the time especially in the gaming world.
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JAB
I totally hear you... Im exactly the type of player who will enjoy ToD much more and in fact one of the reasons I play now is to get skill wise ready for ToD... Im really lookin forward to it...
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i think it is simply the repetitive fights and low level of general structure other than capturing bases that mean squat.
too much land grabbing, not enough 'do or die' fighting.
i still love MA, just it has changed even in the 12 months i have played AH.
like or lump it.
batfink
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Simaril
What I had to do is to find a plane that is a decent ride and not a very common plane in the MA so I dont run around shooting "my" plane alot. Tex
Actually, I'd find fighting someone else in the same model plane as mine a challenge. That way I could better judge my own pilot skills versus that of my foe.
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I agree with mostly everyone here. People have expected the wrong simulation. Its not really a simulation anymore, its a game. Sad to see, yes, but there is nothing to do about it. If it is HTC's desire to create that kind of environment, then so be it. What I have doubts about is ToD. I feel that some of the guys who crave realism are still going to end up playing MA because they "can't fly the planes they want to fly". I feel that ToD will only be another arena like the Combat Theater...has great potential but hell, my grandmother is more exciting than playing in the CT most times.
I think only a handfull will end up actually playing Tour of Duty. Thats my prediction. As for the MA, I guess we will have to live with the whining, the newbie planes, suicidal bombers, etc etc. While many of us feel that the game/simulation should be more based on historical accuracy, it still is HTC's product. They minipulate what happens.
And yes, it is very sad to see so many people leave because of AH2's "bullchit". Atleast in AH1 there wasnt very much BS events. Now we got bombers disappearing everywhere, we have HO's which are basically based on eachother's connection. We even have the landscape appearing infront of our cockpits. A tree branch grabbed me yesterday and said: "haha". That got me pissed off. Ofcourse I couldn't say anything back to the tree cus I was already sent back to tower. :eek: :lol :rofl
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Originally posted by J_A_B
The answer is some people come here expecting the wrong game. They come with the expectation of re-living WW2, of placing themselves in the shoes of Galland or Bong or Sakai or someone of the sort, and instead find an open-ended free-for-all that only happens to use WW2 equipment. Such people are understandably disappointed.
I for one have always liked the fee-for-all nature of the open-ended ahistorical arena, although Air Warrior did it a little better than AH does. AH: ToD will likely appeal to the more historically-minded.
J_A_B
Exactly. You've nailed it!
Bazi (looking forward to TOD in 2 weeks)
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I started typing in a list of the problems but when I hit the 20th item I erased it all. It's not one thing, it's all the little problems adding up that over time just pound the fun out of the game.
I'd personally love to see more experimentation in the MA. Just *try* some ideas for a couple weeks and see how people react, see how the game flows. I know this is coading time, but there are so many serious gameplay issues and abuses. Maybe have a guild of experienced players who understand what beta-testing *really* is invited into a private forum with HTC to discuss the impact of each change in a non-partisan way. There are a lot of people with great ideas here, and their voices too often get burried in the whines, or the din of those with personal agendas.
And as for the argument that "we're not here to beta test HTC's arena code" - stow it. The arena *has* to change because players will optimize towards whatever system is in place. The Horde is one such optimization which is ruining gameplay; low-level bomber formations is another. The only way to make changes is to try ideas and see which ones help, and which ones hurt.
As the saying goes: "The more things don't change, the more they stay the same."
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Westy, JAB, Tex, and Dok nailed it.
It is indeed much easier to blame a specific aspect than to blame yourself. **** happens, boredome and burnout sets in. Unless you're an infant in a crib, you need more than the dangling colorful thingies spinning around 24/7. In fact, I don't think it's the dangling colorful thingies that give players enjoyment at all. Rather, it's the players creating their own enjoyment through imagination and immersion. Escapism plays a large role - you are not the office cubical prisoner, the construction worker, the grunt, the teacher, the bum living in their mother's basement - you're a fighter jock, gv dweeb, buff dork...
The environment doesn't react to us, we react to the environment.
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Excise me but What is ToD? I too prefer a little more realisn in my battles. Sounds like i might like it.
Why don't more people play in the Combat theatre? That seems more historicaly based. Sadly its always nearly empty when I go in there?
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Should have read more carefully. Is toD (tour of Duty) an new game?
Now don't bite my head off but more historical maps in the MA and different plane sets for each country would help with a limit on the numbers each country could sign up.
Still be a furball still be fun to capture feilds and be more fun capturing places with real names.
AvA in air warrior was like that and was great.
This game is pretty but Aw was great too.
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Tour of Duty is not a new game. Its going to be made by Hitech Creations. It's a new game in the sense that it will be based more on historical accuracy. But its still going to have the same flight model and such as AH2. - I think.
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Imagine an arena with missions, AI, historical matchups, training, careers, medals, and no fantasy chess piece warfare... Think of it as an 'online boxed sim'.
Here is a small FAQ that briefly describes the Tour of Duty posted by Pyro a while ago: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77265
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One difference that stands out for me is not the horde, but what the horde does. Each country has one, but unfortunately they rarely meet. For some reason the idea of a good fight is no longer uppermost in many players minds' and an overwhelming force against a weak/ non-existant foe is favourable.
MA play often reminds me of dogs fighting over scraps.
However, it is understandable. In a lethal environment there is greater saftey in numbers. No matter that it's a game, guys just don't want to get shot down. Unfortunately this leads to developing survival rather than fighting skills (which I'm under the impression this game is all about).
So here's the thing - how can MA be evolve to encourage/reward fighting.
A couple of weeks ago the hordes did meet (bish/nit I think) in OZ resulting in a cat5 furball and one of the greatest fights I've been since AH2 realeased. More please.
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Sounds realy good as long asa you can walk on. This is only a passtime not a simulated life! Having to turn up at set times is a real pain. But if you can walk on should be good.
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Tinpot thats is exactly the problem with the CT.
Getting the critical number of players needed online to tempt others in.
Too many times as i log on i see 2 or 3 logged into the CT, i dont even bother checking it out unless theirs at least 8 playing.
But if theres anything like 20 people logged in then i will not bother with the MA .
From memory the TOD is expected to roll flights approx every 30 mins.
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What about the idea I proposed earlier
"Now don't bite my head off but more historical maps in the MA and different plane sets for each country would help with a limit on the numbers each country could sign up."
Wouldn't that work?
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Historical Accuracy would be the solution. To have a "non-bullchit environment" lol. I agree with Darkish completely. The MA is a bunch of fightin over scraps. There is no real tactics in fighting your enemy. There is no sense in creating complicated plans cus one way or another, you will in the end be fighting over scraps. CT is much different but very few play there. If CT had a consistency of a good 50 players in at one time, it would be awesome. Would be a blast. This way there would be competition, there would be strategic moves.
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Tinpot - The MA is a place where you can take any ride (eny permitting ;) ) and do what ever you want with it, and the Combat Theatre is the place for historical matchups. I'm totally in favour of this and believe that a limited plane set has no place here. The problem, as I understand it, is that people are not doing what they should.
They are not flying around having a blast.
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its little more than a bunch of burned out "oldies" pining for there "golden days" if your having fun, keep doing it, the first year of play is always the best, so make the most of it.
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Geeze...ToD isn't out yet?
Whats it going on...two years?
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Darkish I seem to remember the Cat 5 furball was at 144 on OzKansas. Was Bish CV against Knit field. Yup it was a scream.
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The reason Hordes don't often meet is that they're not intended to. The whole point is to gain overwhelming local superiority so you can capture/vultch with the least chance of failure. With bases so close, any attempt at Horde-busting (i.e. a defensive sweep) just gets swallowed up by numbers once the fight drops to around 5K.
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Simaril....
You need to recognize a few things to understand the dynamics...
1) 95% of the community doesnt whine....
2) The "Whiners" fall into 3 groups.....
a) old farts like me who grew up in the "knights of the sky" era where combat was mainly between a few and a big furball had 6 guys on a side:)
b) The stratmongers who could emasculate a side by mobilizing a % of the "good guys" and then roll up a map
c) the noobs who cant fly anything thats not faster and better and are hampered by the eny
Now the highlight for group A was back in Beta and the early tours, group B ruled up until a year ago (maybe two). As the "horde" evolved it diminished gameplay for the 1st two groups and the "lagay/runstang/doradweeb" period began. It's not the fault of the player simply the reality that learning ACM in a 1 on 10 enviornment isnt going to happen...and flying a slow plane in a 10 on 1 enviornment isnt good either.
The game is evolving and the dinosours are unhappy...simple as that.
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Originally posted by humble
Simaril....
You need to recognize a few things to understand the dynamics...
1) 95% of the community doesnt whine....
2) The "Whiners" fall into 3 groups.....
a) old farts like me who grew up in the "knights of the sky" era where combat was mainly between a few and a big furball had 6 guys on a side:)
b) The stratmongers who could emasculate a side by mobilizing a % of the "good guys" and then roll up a map
c) the noobs who cant fly anything thats not faster and better and are hampered by the eny
Now the highlight for group A was back in Beta and the early tours, group B ruled up until a year ago (maybe two). As the "horde" evolved it diminished gameplay for the 1st two groups and the "lagay/runstang/doradweeb" period began. It's not the fault of the player simply the reality that learning ACM in a 1 on 10 enviornment isnt going to happen...and flying a slow plane in a 10 on 1 enviornment isnt good either.
The game is evolving and the dinosours are unhappy...simple as that.
Seems like I heard this said about another online flight sim in a galaxy far far away :)
Remembering that golden time and having a smaller version of it in AH2 at present. Not sure why I'm having so much fun. Could be my expectations are not that high or maybe I'm not taking it nearly as seriously as I used to
Dan/Slack
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I for one DO NOT want restirctions on the plane sets to specific countries!!!
Been there done that! It causes nothing but trouble. The division within the player base becomes very bad. Complaining about uber this and uber that and excuse after excuse. Bias this and Bias that etc. etc. etc. ........ ugh!
NO THANK YOU!
Go to the CT for historical plane sets and leave the MA alone PLEASE!
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Originally posted by vorticon
its little more than a bunch of burned out "oldies" pining for there "golden days" if your having fun, keep doing it, the first year of play is always the best, so make the most of it.
^^^--Hits Vort over the head with a prop wrench .... When was the last time you were in the MA ???
Its sort of back like it was 3 yrs ago ..... the #'s have switched ,The Rooks are the darkside again ,The Bish dont know what to do, and the Knits are still whining . :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by humble
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The game is evolving and the dinosours are unhappy...simple as that.
Evolution: (n) A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
Devolution: (n) The process of declining from a higher to a lower level of effective power or vitality or essential quality.
You make the call.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Evolution: (n) A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
Devolution: (n) The process of declining from a higher to a lower level of effective power or vitality or essential quality.
You make the call.
Evolution
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For me gameplay seems different in AH2 than it was in AH1. Seems like alot fewer people are interested in the fights themselves and more interested in blasting a base into oblivion so they can capture it unopposed.
I don't mind fighting against long odds, imo in the long run it makes you a better pile-it. A few days ago I beat my first 5 on 1 in AH. Had an La-7, P-38, Spitfire, Hurricane and a 109 on my Hurricane, I augered the La-7 and killed the rest with my uber cannons :D . THAT was intense!!
Yesterday one of the Bish was mad at those of us who where furballing at a Knight base. (A43 I think) He was angry because we had no objective other than fighting other players. He was angry because we werent playing the game the way he thought it should be played. The game allows for different types of gameplay at the same time. Play the game in whatever way that is the most fun for you.
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Knits are still whining
Come on Ros !!! Knights surely don't have the market cornered when it comes to whining ... if that was true, then the WHN limited would kick in ... ;)
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Damn, all this bemoaning the current state of AH makes me wax nostalgic for a good ole fashioned niki whine.
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(http://www.jtsystems.demon.co.uk/duma/images/cartoons/looserivets/081200.jpg)
looks about normal to me......
(http://www.jtsystems.demon.co.uk/duma/images/cartoons/looserivets/151200.jpg)
game on !!!
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Repetative. have to take breaks. And it's lame to have to up from 3 bases over not to get vulched. Thats what i heard and see. Doesnt bother me tho. Just a game :)
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Originally posted by Mak333
And yes, it is very sad to see so many people leave because of AH2's "bullchit". Atleast in AH1 there wasnt very much BS events. Now we got bombers disappearing everywhere, we have HO's which are basically based on eachother's connection.
And this is different how? Collisions have always been based on what your FE sees.....you avoid it on your FE and you dont collide. Simple as that.
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"Don't get it -- what's wrong with MA?"
Simplest answer...the game has changed and some people have refused to accept and adapt to those changes.
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Originally posted by sling322
And this is different how? Collisions have always been based on what your FE sees.....you avoid it on your FE and you dont collide. Simple as that.
I'm not talking only about collisions man. The whole game was released way too early. Now HTC is basically playing catch up trying to get new patches out etc. I feel that if they never had released the info so early about AH2 then there wouldnt have been an issue. People wouldnt have left so early on.
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There is nothing wrong with the MA.
The only difference now from 3 years or so ago is the amount of newbs we are getting on a daily basis. Still, there is nothing wrong with that. The fire still needs to be fed even after it is stoaked.
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Arlo logs onto the TOD server and notices right off the bat that he has a choice to make. He begins the process:
Welcome to TOD: Europe `44
Axis or Allied? (selects)
British or American? (selects)
Aircraft or Ground Vehicle career? (selects)
Fighter, Attack or Bomber squadron? (selects)
Select specific squadron. (selects)
An image appears of a pilot in the uniform that portrays the selections made.
Pilot name? (types in "A. Guthrie")
Congratulations, Pilot Cadet A. Guthrie. You have completed basic air training and will now commence advanced fighter training after which you will be asigned to your unit.
Arlo goes through however many basic AI scenarios it takes to see if he can take off, navigate, hit a target, return to base and land.
Congratulations 2nd Lieutenant A. Guthrie. You have been promoted and are assigned to the ____ Fighter Group, ____ squadron out of Duxford, England. Your aircraft will be ______. Your mission choices for today are ________, _________, _________, _________. Please note that to fly with fellow players you must all choose the same mission. Deviation from your mission parameters may result in demotion which can result in being sent through basic fighter training again. (chit)
Arlo looks for friends in the same squadron who are not currently flying a mission and finds one. They both select mission 4. Escorting bombers to their target.
Off they go .... into the wild blue yonder.
Arlo manages to bag 2 AI fighters attacking the group but gets pinged up pretty badly by an opposing player in a 109 and has to return early due to fuel loss. He barely makes it back to base. Whew .. not outside the mission parameters, though. Score 2 kills. Receive a minor medal.
Checks to see if there are any players selecting a mission. Dang ... everyone's in flight. Selects one anyhow and takes off with the AI group. This time Arlo is shot down by an opposing player in a 190 while over the target. Bails out. Is captured.
What then?
Tune in next week, folks, for the continuing adventures of 2nd Lieutenant Arlo of the mighty fighting 8th Air Force.
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:rofl
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next week it will read
Roscoroo Lands 8 kills of a B-17G and 3 kills of Arlo in a FW 190 d9
and Recieves the Iron Cross and promoted to the Rank Of Major dolt. :p
Later that nite He buzzes the Tower and ends up on base arrest...
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If you werent here 2-3 years ago to experience what gameplay used to be, you will NEVER know what it is you are missing. Unfortunately I feel, it is truely gone forever.
I am in fact glad that you are having fun with todays MA, afterall, they say ignorance is bliss. I am green w/ envy.
Enjoy every second you can, I hear they are planning another advertisement campaigne. For me, gameplay started a noticable decline right after the last commercial hit, and we started to see a mssive induction of new players facing a high learning curve.
This learning Curve may well in fact be the cause for the "Path of least resistance" tendencies of the new MA. It is not my job to know this answer, but I bet I'm am on the right track.
Anton
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LMFAO Roscroo... read all those again last night !!!!!
TOO funnay!!!!
check was held till funds from CON replenished.. now OTW sir.... please read letter.
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Rgr and thanks
I'll Email ya later after i get the snail mail.
now Back to the Whine's (oops i mean the AH bbs)
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I have no problem with the MA, never did. I think people who do play too much. No one is going to create a perfect synthetic world.
The new balancing act (ENY) has made squad/country flying less attractive if you like to fly one plane which happens to have a low eny value. But hopping countries fixes that.
But hopefully eny will go away one day- if not - hop hop hop.
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The MA is the MA, it always will be. Because of the changes to the MA in AH2, players must develop new strategies to over come the challenges in the MA, like, larger, faster restoring towns, more accurate, effective, ground Ack, a different gun model.
Not sure what AH is trying to do with the ENY, that may be an attempt to rebalance the sides, I think everyone here knows someone that has left the game because of the video card issue with AH2. Perhaps a larger number of Rook or Bishops or Knights left, making the play very lopsided at certain times.
I think HiTech has rechecked their bottom line and didn’t like what they saw. That’s the main reason for the change in what many players considered to be a hard line on the part of Hi Tech, There originally position when informed that video cards were not able to handle AH2. There response to me was , get a new Video card, upgrade your computer or you won’t be able to play the game. Well many left, not just the few they expected. So now……………………………………………..
Check out the News from Pyro. They patched AH2 so you don’t have to invest in a new Video card. You can use that cheap computer from Dell or Compaq or who ever. It’s out there right now. 2.01
The Problem with the MA if you want to address it as a problem is that the new fields, require more resources to attack and capture them. Missions are becoming more important in the MA if a side wishes to “Win The War” or even effectively attack a target and get home alive. Cooperative play between small squads is even more important now in AH2, then it was in AH. 5 guys attacking an airfield will no longer be effective and it will be next to impossible for them to capture an airfield. Something that was very common in AH.
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There is nothing wrong with the MA - it's a typical 'Melee' arena, as we used to call it in AW in latter years. For me, its a practice arena for the special events as well as a place to simply have fun playing the game. If you don't take things too seriously - don't get upset when you die - and just enjoy playing, the game will be a lot more enjoyable. :)
Then, when you want a bit more serious play, in more historical settings, either head for the CT (not practical during my timezone) or the SEA and take part in some special events. If you've never tried one of the events before, maybe try a Snapshot first and if you enjoy the experience, bring along some friends to the next one. Then you may progress to SquadOps and ultimately Scenarios, which to me are the pinnacle of all special events and the main reason for sticking around since 1998 (here and formerly AW). ;)
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AH2 came out with;
--- higher grafic details, i think we lost players that can't aford to buy new hardware
---huge towns hard to kill with the low #s of players , (less than 100/team yesterday , frieday evening 9pmET!!!). This lost the strategic base capture motivation. Many players can't just dogfight untill they puke
---- fuel burning rate
---- for score potatos, the new sistem sux
----after months since AH2 came out, i can't see new planes,gvs
But i think the main reason why is not the same like AH1 is lower #s of players, to bring it back to ''golden days" we should try to bring in new players (eassy kills,lol)
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Originally posted by Flossy
If you don't take things too seriously - don't get upset when you die - and just enjoy playing, the game will be a lot more enjoyable. :)
How easy it is:)
Flossy
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Evolution: (n) A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
Devolution: (n) The process of declining from a higher to a lower level of effective power or vitality or essential quality.
You make the call.
Thats the question isnt it....
I prefer the good old days by far, but I also have no real interest in the TOD concept either as a primary form of game play. The MA is more comple and offers more options and diversity than any flight sim I've ever seen....so it is evolving. However the overall "satisfaction index" of game play has devolved for me. Truthfully I like the ENY...but then I'm flying -1 hogs and Ki-61's anyway:)....
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Adventures of Arlo....
Checks to see if there are any players selecting a mission. Dang ... everyone's in flight. Selects one anyhow and takes off with the AI group. This time Arlo is shot down by an opposing player in a 190 while over the target. Bails out. Is captured.
Arlo escapes from stalag 17 and is "captured" by a group of nuns from the order of the swedish bikini team. Spends the next 4 years teaching them basic english...among other things. Gets a bunch of medals:)
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Note that I still think AH2 is an amazing technical achievement. My frustration is that it has so much untapped potential.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The reason Hordes don't often meet is that they're not intended to. The whole point is to gain overwhelming local superiority so you can capture/vultch with the least chance of failure. With bases so close, any attempt at Horde-busting (i.e. a defensive sweep) just gets swallowed up by numbers once the fight drops to around 5K.
Thus the hordes are caused by the underlying game system. But the most frustrating part of the hordes... one horde can be within a sector of a given country's HQs etc. and the threatened country's horde.. cares less... and just goes off trying grab land elsewhere ... to the point of attacking the third country... not the one about to overrun the HQs. And somehow the hordes think this is commendable. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by humble
Adventures of Arlo....
Arlo escapes from stalag 17 and is "captured" by a group of nuns from the order of the swedish bikini team. Spends the next 4 years teaching them basic english...among other things. Gets a bunch of medals:)
I can't wait for TOD. :D
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Back in the old days the game was all about air to air combat. In most cases 1 vs 1. Thats what WWII flight sims are about. Then HT lowered his price... was $30 a month back then... he got a big influx of players, mostly from AWIII which was going under. AW already had the relaxed realizum arenas setup for "land grab" and that is what ya did there. If ya want to fly fighters to fight, then ya went to the Full Realizum arenas, but they had low numbers too...much like the old days in AH.
So we have a large influx of player who are one, use to "land grab", and two, who now have a huge learning curve to work thru. Most take the easy way out, and game the game. This is the begining of the end for those "true" fighter pilots who live only for the "fight". Each new influx of players bring "their" game down more, because the newbies learn from what they see the majority of players doing... land grab.
Maybe if there was a large training corps to help the newbies over the rough spots. I know there are a number of folk who DO take the time to train/help players who ask. but I think we need far more. Most training MUST be one on one, and with the numbers climbing like they do there just isn't enough help to go around.
MAybe some of the more vocal players who hate flying in the MA these days should take the time to train new players to want to fly fighters for the joy of the fight, and there by change it back to the way it was :)
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"MAybe some of the more vocal players who hate flying in the MA these days should take the time to train new players to want to fly fighters for the joy of the fight, and there by change it back to the way it was "
Sorry. I don't have the time, the patience or the inclination. IMO it's also a bit like trying to teach carp to be salmon. Most of them are content to swimming with the school simply making circles in the fish pond. Too few seek to take on the challenge of trying to make it up river - even if you offer to hold thier hand.
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The question of if there is something wrong with the MA should be answered by those who have played many other online games. Does AH have a high concentration of jerks, or do we have a typically diverse population. I can’t answered this because the only other online game that I have played was Warbirds and the last time I played was the day before AH went Beta.
Anyone else have some insight to this question?
eskimo
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It's a lot of things. Right now the behavior itself is self-perpetuating because there's no reason for players to change.
Some of the factors I see as impacting MA play include:
- The game rewards individual kill streaks, regardless of how they're obtained. The brag messages in this case. Easiest way to get a "wtg" is to vultch a field - so why work any harder? For "gamers" this makes a difference. At the same time, gamers also like squads/clans and this should become more of a focus.
- The mechanics of field capture turn the activity into either a vultch opportunity, a GV-killing snooze-fest, or an unopposed steamroller. There've been lots of suggestions on how to change this. You'll always need numbers to win, but right now the numbers don't need to be terribly well organized or skillful - so no one really improves or learns a damn thing.
- Many, many little imbalances and quirks which people play "down" to because it's easier. Shooting down CV's and CA's with cannons, heavy bomber formations at 500 feet, GV's of all types which at times are all but immune to attack from the air, HO's are just too easy as are long range shots beyond 400 yds, too many pork-n-auger opportunities which keep many freelancers in the role of nuisances who die after their 2nd pass on the base.
- Not enough change. This is a huge thing which is tough for HTC to cope with because they are a small company. But history has shown that player numbers increase and idiotic stuff declines when there's something new added to the game. New planes, new capture rules, new features, etc. - new maps don't count because the game itself doesn't change and the maps are all so tightly packed anyway. If the game stands still, players will find and use the easiest paths to "success" - and that path is as often as not harmful to overall gameplay. (Those old enough can recall the old "radar runners" from AW which just made the arena a total bore.)
So, again, it's a lot of little things that don't change. The good thing is they're easy to fix - even if only one at a time.
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I would pay $30 monthly for the "old gameplay" I used to enjoy.
Back about 2 years ago, I posted a thread with the idea of "AH2 Premium" which was one of my initial ideas to combat the noticeable decline of gameplay. My thought was to create another arena where Air Combat was more the focus, make it available to people willing to pay $30, & keep the MA as it is/was.
As you can immagine, I recieved several agreements, and a vourage of rants & raves about how money doesnt eqaute to good gameplay, yada yadda yadda.
I was just thinking, what if HTC created a whole nother game for us die hard combat guys, then they could have the best of both worlds. Air Quake & a Flight Combat Sim. Obviously CT didnt attract the numbers as it was percieved to, whats next?
I will be spending some $150 on a new game & wheel type controller for my new game, cause im no longer having fun with my old ones. Thats the Facts. (oven timer buzzes in background), I have to go now, Dales chicken pot-pie is done cooking, Hes gotta eat ya know.:D
Anton
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Originally posted by anton
I was just thinking, what if HTC created a whole nother game for us die hard combat guys, then they could have the best of both worlds. Air Quake & a Flight Combat Sim. Obviously CT didnt attract the numbers as it was percieved to, whats next?
Running from guys in a faster plane is now air combat?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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It comes down to balance points:
- How do you reward and encourage team play without alienating freelancers and new players?
- How do you limit suicide attacks without making people play too defensively?
- How do you promote and reward skillfull play without leading people to use vultching and Horde tactics as the easiest way to gain "status?"
- How do you promote an environment where the two weaker countries attack the stronger, instead of the other way around?
- How to you make base/city/whatever capture possible for a dozen well-organized players, yet difficult enough for a 40-player drool squad to give defenders some kind of chance?
And, of course, there are others ... but these are what come to mind at this hour of the morning.
Based on what most of us see in the MA every night, these balance points are not where the could or should be for the MA to live up to its potential. And the longer things stay tipped the way they are, the more the bad habits will become ingrained in people's behaviors - so that positive changes will be met with a hail of whines because the "accepted" paths to "success" will be threatened - regardless of how infantile and moronic those existing paths may be.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Based on what most of us see in the MA every night, these balance points are not where the could or should be for the MA to live up to its potential. And the longer things stay tipped the way they are, the more the bad habits will become ingrained in people's behaviors - so that positive changes will be met with a hail of whines because the "accepted" paths to "success" will be threatened - regardless of how infantile and moronic those existing paths may be.
We are already generations into ingraining these methods of gameplay into the players. I can't imagine at this point any major change in gameplay that won't be met with a great deal of resistence from those affected -- particularly changes that alter the incentive structure for vulching, hording, etc.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Simulation:
1. The act or process of simulating.
2. An imitation; a sham.
3. Assumption of a false appearance.
4.
a. Imitation or representation, as of a potential situation or in experimental testing.
b. Representation of the operation or features of one process or system through the use of another: computer simulation of an in-flight emergency.
AH2 is what the people using it, make of it. The truth is fighter pilots of WWII were trained to avoid dog fights. And only engaged when they held a tactical advantage. If engaged by the nme yes, they fought for their lives. But they didn’t fly single plane missions, the majority of flights consisted of fights of 4 or more aircraft. No lone wolfs. AH and AH2 is a game built around WWII equipment. If it was a WWII Simulator, you would get one life and you would have to sit around and wait to be assigned to a patrol or a strike mission. When you got your orders you would patrol your sector or fly the assigned mission. Each mission would take hours to fly. But AH2 is not a Simulation, it’s a business, a business that has as it’s product the idea that you are flying a WWII Air, Land and Sea Combat Simulator. They through in a bit of capture the flag and divided the players into three camps, just to make the game interesting.
The Hoard as many people have referred to large groups of players attacking one target. Is I believe an attempt to organize a mission against a target. The fact that they more closely resemble a mob then a military unit attacking a target is because that’s exactly what their mentality is, that of a mob. That’s why in many cases the hoard does not achieve their objective.
Capturing a base in AH2 environment requires larger numbers of players to coordinate their efforts to capture an airfield. The towns re-generate much faster, take longer to knock down. What we have generally on line is small groups of players attempting to band together, however, what we end up with is a large numbers of unorganized players flying around an nme airfield, some are trying for a base capture, some are just looking for a furball, some are vulching. After hours of this you can over fly the area and see that the town is at about 100% and the hangers are up and many of the original attackers have grown board and moved on to another airfield. There is no military chain of command. Nor are there many attempts to define targets and plan detailed missions. That would require self imposed discipline and that’s something that you will never get a mob to do.
Most players are in to much of a hurry to fly off and die. They have no idea how to use the plot board to see detailed flight plans of routs and alts to targets. Or understand the purpose of coordinated attacks by multiple elements. That again is something that mobs are not good at.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
We are already generations into ingraining these methods of gameplay into the players. I can't imagine at this point any major change in gameplay that won't be met with a great deal of resistence from those affected -- particularly changes that alter the incentive structure for vulching, hording, etc.
So you're saying this is as good as it's ever gonna get?
The danger is that numbers and per-player hours seem to be down (at least based on what folks are posting in the forums and what the arena tallies show). The problem with the horde/vultch/pork game is it don't stay interesting that long. If there's enough new players to keep the mill churning, then there's no reason for HTC to change. But if things drop off steeply again after the novelty of the Ki-84 and B-24 wears off, then that's a bad business trend.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Running from guys in a faster plane is now air combat?
-- Todd/Leviathn
LOL, this guys been flyin for years & still rides in a trainer. Now THERE is a classic example of path of lest resistance. I suppose hed really like for A Yak Vs SpitV turnfight, anyone would, except the yak pilot.
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Originally posted by A_Clown
LOL, this guys been flyin for years & still rides in a trainer. Now THERE is a classic example of path of lest resistance. I suppose hed really like for A Yak Vs SpitV turnfight, anyone would, except the yak pilot.
Running away from a Spit and bragging about your ability to do so does not constitute air combat. Even the act of running does not demonstrate your skill since you are in a faster plane that, by all accounts, should be able to do that anyway. Maybe AH would be more fun for you if you actually took some chances and attempted to push the Yak's envelope. As it is, you flew it conservatively and got bored.
Enjoy your time away from the game.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
So you're saying this is as good as it's ever gonna get?
[/b]
Well, no, but I am saying that any major changes at this point will result in the kinds of persistent whining we witnessed with the ENY limiter. Lots of people will threaten to leave or outright leave as a result, for better or for worse.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Many players can't just dogfight untill they puke
I can!! :D
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Regarding the "undisciplined horde":
I don't think we'll ever see people taking the time to generate nor follow complex missions with target assignments etc. as long as "mission spying" is both possible and unpunished.
It's seems a shame to me that all the effort that went into making the mission planner never lives up to it's potential because of this.
Simply being able to password protect a mission would go along way towords better use of the mission planner; on a squad level at least.
It also seems to me we've gone 180 degrees from my early days in AH; when there was much moaning about rotating squads (and indeed Hitech posted to the effect that he was; back in the day, considering prohibiting squads from country rotation) to the current position where side switching is approaching coersion.
Numbers/force balance (they aren't always the same); side cohesion and effective use of assets: these are the factors which influence hoard behaviour.
However; strictly personaly speaking; the two main factors which are influencing my own logged on hours are comunity and comms.
I've faced many periods of burnout in AW; but loved the community. The community kept me hanging around long enough for the urge to bite again. But it was a managed community; with published levels and standards of behaviour; Kesmai (Mage) was tight on the community. Here; any thing goes. I often wonder how HTC has manged to keep any French customers at all!
And communications; to whit: Vox. I must admit I'm getting really; really tired of unsquelchable range vox. I log on to "do a bit of WWII"; and I either get f.ck this and f.ck that blaring out my speakers; or any attempt at immersion is ruined by a non periodic piece of Bush/Kerry vitriole.
Why is it so hard to get range vox squelchable?
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Vox. I must admit I'm getting really; really tired of unsquelchable range vox. I log on to "do a bit of WWII"; and I either get f.ck this and f.ck that blaring out my speakers
I ended up squelching a guy the other night that wouldnt quit swearing on range channel. I asked him twice very politely to refrain from swearing because I have two young girls in my home. He ignored my requests. Interesting to note that later that same night one of his squaddies exploded an F4U after I shot its wing off and called it down on range channel......great group of guys eh?
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Seeker wrote:
"Regarding the "undisciplined horde":
I don't thik we'll ever see people taking the time to generate not follow complex missions with target assignments etc. as long as "mission spying" is both possible and unpunished.
It's seems a shame to me that all the effort that went into making the mission planner never lives up to it's potential because of this. "
All I know is that I have taken the time to generate several complex missions. They resulted in missions that required between 15 to 30 slots filled. When posted and advertised they were met with what appeared to me to be distain and when anyone bothered to join it was only to find out that they could neither read or comprehend the information presented to them. Several were either unable to unwilling to learn how to properly use the plot board and even fewer could follow a route to a target.
I find fewer players willing to join a squad and work as a team.
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Elfie,
Did you report the guy using the foul langue to Hi Tech? If not, don't complain about it. by your inaction you encourage it. If you did, thanks.
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Traveler, in that case I didnt have the film running but rest assured that the next time that same individual is in the area I WILL have the film running. There really is no excuse for continuing to swear on vox when you have been informed someone has small children who can hear it.
I wasnt complaining Traveler, I was merely responding to Seeker's post with an experience of my own :)
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The only time I've felt the need to squealch range vox is when folks insist on discussing politics there. Any other time when language or behavior gets out of hand someone usually makes an appropriate remark like "less talking, more killing" and that ends it.
But that's just Rooks and on West coast flying hours ... I don't know what all kind of stuff goes on elsewhere or at other times.
Want the mission planner to get used? Make it so that base capture is only possible if posted in a mission, and only possible by those who join that mission. So there. Nyah! :p You probably want to have a EZ-Mission deal so somneone can quickly rig "attack A2 from A1." Likewise provide a quick "defend A2" mission. And allow troops to originate from anywhere to affect the capture due to the P-n-A crowd. Let people join in-progress up to some maximum number of players. Oh, and then give people who joined and succeeded some damn perks for it. Likewise if the defenders kept the base long enough to make the attacker's mission fail, they get perks.
Would people whine? Sure. Who cares. If the game plays down to idiots then all you get is a game full of idiots. This way you'd at least promote more organized play - even from the furballers who could go from place to place as a defensive unit. And freelancers could still pork-n-auger all they like - they just wouln't benefit as much as the guys who work as a group. Would it solve everything? Hell no. Would it still make sense 6 months from now? Who knows? Would it stop The Horde? Nope - but at least it may get people looking more subjectively at non-overrun parts of the map.
Overall I agree - and share the frustration - about having a game system where only maybe half of its features and assets (planes) are really used.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The only time I've felt the need to squealch range vox is when folks insist on discussing politics there. Any other time when language or behavior gets out of hand someone usually makes an appropriate remark like "less talking, more killing" and that ends it.
But that's just Rooks and on West coast flying hours ... I don't know what all kind of stuff goes on elsewhere or at other times.
Want the mission planner to get used? Make it so that base capture is only possible if posted in a mission, and only possible by those who join that mission. So there. Nyah! :p You probably want to have a EZ-Mission deal so somneone can quickly rig "attack A2 from A1." Likewise provide a quick "defend A2" mission.
Too many whiny newbies would join up and screw up the whole mission. Very bad idea. There is nothing you can do about teamwork - that is what I have learned. Unless you dramatically change the gameplay to force others to use teamwork to accomplish a goal, teamwork will be scarce.
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I need to look into this. Is it still going on?
I really enjoyed flying in the SEA during SO. 1 life to live.
Of course, I always end up in the Cessna against the F-15 (hyperbole for effect) but the one life to live thing is what makes it work.
One gap in the MA (probably unavoidable) is the fact you have unlimited lives and no delay between spawns. It's total BS to kill a fighter in your buffs only to have him re-engage in a fresh plane (due to a long mission, or whatever).
Likewise, it would eliminate vulching - (that is, delaying between spawns). Imagine not getting 10 or more kills on the same guy at a field?
In this world of instant gratification, I can hear the whines now... "I don't wanna wait!"
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Originally posted by Mak333
Too many whiny newbies would join up and screw up the whole mission. Very bad idea. There is nothing you can do about teamwork - that is what I have learned. Unless you dramatically change the gameplay to force others to use teamwork to accomplish a goal, teamwork will be scarce.
I propose making missions more disposable. If there's 20 going on all the time, you expect a lot more to fail - especially with all the dweebs. But some will learn, and some won't. The ones that do will be rewarded. The ones that don't are no worse off than they are now.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Running away from a Spit and bragging about your ability to do so does not constitute air combat. Even the act of running does not demonstrate your skill since you are in a faster plane that, by all accounts, should be able to do that anyway. Maybe AH would be more fun for you if you actually took some chances and attempted to push the Yak's envelope. As it is, you flew it conservatively and got bored.
Enjoy your time away from the game.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Because I chose not to fight your spitV low & slow Im not pushing the envelope? But flying the spitV in what, yer 5th year? somehow IS pushing the envelope? Man I guess I really am confused about what challenge is all about. It's very likely I never will understand(your perception), so maybe you should just save yer effort.
I know I flew my yak into a great many precarious position & came out with victories & my plane in tact often, I dont care if some spit jok thinks otherwise. You may fool yerself, and maybe even some BBS readers. But myself, & those that flew with me, know otherwise.
& yes, I am enjoying my "time away", Thank you.
Anton
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Originally posted by anton
Because I chose not to fight your spitV low & slow Im not pushing the envelope? But flying the spitV in what, yer 5th year?
[/b]
I didn't fly AH five years ago, and the Spit V was most certainly not around at that time. But don't let facts cloud things.
Man I guess I really am confused about what challenge is all about.
[/b]
Yes, you are. Obviously. The fact that the Yak-9U is one of the better rides in the game seems to escape you.
It's very likely I never will understand(your perception), so maybe you should just save yer effort.
[/b]
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm merely stating that running from a Spit V and bragging about it while flying a substantially faster plane does not equal air combat. It doesn't even equal skill, not even a small amount of it. In fact, you are the only person I've ever met in AH who used to routinely brag about the abilities of your plane rather than your abilities in that plane. It baffled me.
Anyway, ta-ta.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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pissing contest over. 45 mins, no reply :(
Guess his internet is also faster and less maneuverable than yours levi :)
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I thought way back when HiTech first announced AH 2 that one of the things promoted was an arena dedicated to mission oriented play. My understanding was that all activity within the arena was predicated on the existence of a planed mission or set of missions.
That the missions would drive all activity within the arena. No single flights, no long wolfs, no unsupported activity. That perks would be awarded for successful execution of your assigned element of a mission and you would lose perks for not completing your assigned task.
Does anyone recall hearing about such an arena? I understood that it would be released following the MA in AH2.
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Originally posted by Traveler
I thought way back when HiTech first announced AH 2 that one of the things promoted was an arena dedicated to mission oriented play. My understanding was that all activity within the arena was predicated on the existence of a planed mission or set of missions.
That the missions would drive all activity within the arena. No single flights, no long wolfs, no unsupported activity. That perks would be awarded for successful execution of your assigned element of a mission and you would lose perks for not completing your assigned task.
Does anyone recall hearing about such an arena? I understood that it would be released following the MA in AH2.
ToD.
soon(tm).
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I didn't fly AH five years ago, and the Spit V was most certainly not around at that time. But don't let facts cloud things.
[/b]
Perhaps you are to dense to realize I wasn't sure exactly how long you have been stuck in that TRAINER ride, hence the question marks.
Yes, you are. Obviously. The fact that the Yak-9U is one of the better rides in the game seems to escape you.
[/b]
LOL, thats just funny.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm merely stating that running from a Spit V and bragging about in while flying a substantially faster plane does not equal air combat. It doesn't even equal skill, not even a small amount of it. In fact, you are the only person I've ever met in AH who used to routinely brag about the abilities of your plane rather than your abilities in that plane. It baffled me.
Anyway, ta-ta.
-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]
It seems rather obvious to me that you are confused as to what bragging is. Laughing at the GREAT MANY slowfires that would dive in from lofty alts & try to run down my Yak, is NOT bragging. I found it comical at best, & wanted to share the laughter.
Anton
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Anton:
Do you think you could specify in what way you think a 1942 plane qualifies as a trainer ride in an 1945 arena?
Quite honestly; just 'cos you're pissed at Levi; I don't see where you come off dissing the premier fighter of WWII.
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Originally posted by anton
It seems rather obvious to me that you are confused as to what bragging is. Laughing at the GREAT MANY slowfires that would dive in from lofty alts & try to run down my Yak, is NOT bragging. I found it comical at best, & wanted to share the laughter.
Yet when one of them would occasionally catch you and shoot you down, the laughter would end and the wailing and gnashing of teeth would begin. Remember, sometimes you actually have to demonstrate your abilities in the plane rather than just demonstrating the plane's abilities. Even a first timer in a Yak can run from higher Spits if he pushes his nose down.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by anton
It seems rather obvious to me that you are confused as to what bragging is. Laughing at the GREAT MANY slowfires that would dive in from lofty alts & try to run down my Yak, is NOT bragging. I found it comical at best, & wanted to share the laughter.
Anton
Anton...
I'm a bit confused, anyone who fly's a "mid range" plane is simply inviting all comers. Levi is one of the true T&B artists in the game. You seem to be confusing the plane and pilot. since you fly a yak your in total control and can choose your fight almost all the time. There's not a plane in the set that can catch you and then kill you unless your outflown. No reason for you to bash anyone in a spit V...with regard to levi...if they give him a .45 and let him crack the window on a goon he'd kill 1/2 the folks in the game.
If it's so easy grab a spittie and show us how its done....
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Hmmm ... we were discussing what's wrong with the MA ... actually, we haven't wandered off-topic at all, have we?
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I don't know if any of y'all have played the game Planetside (a MMO sci-fi, 3-sided, twitch game). However, it'll give you a completely new perspective on horde gaming (they call it a Zerg). Try holding a doorway with 30 guys in heavy power armor, plus attendent engineers (armor repair) & medics, spamming thousands of grenades around the corner at the unending tide of 100+ guys coming to kill you in the most violent fashion available.
Aside from the laggy, uber-killfest it represents, there are a few features with merit, and could merit some looking into as possible MA "solutions".
* Experience system: You gain by killing & capturing, just like any other game. There are 20 levels. The more levels you get, the more specialities & implants are available, giving you a bigger weapon selection, vehicle access, better armor, etc. In addition to this, there is command experience. To gain command experience, you must be leading a squad of 2 - 9 people. It's much like being on frequency in AH, except you get health bars & each player is #'d on your map. You only get command exp. points when your squad is involved, determined by proximity & length of stay, in the capturing of an enemy facility. You do not get normal experience points in command mode. Bear with me here guys, I do have a point.
What the benefits of command mode are, as you level through it (from 0 to 5) you get expanded communications. It's heirarchy of private comm channels, from the 5s on top, down to the 1s. The command rank (CR) 5 players tend to direct the hordes and get land grabbed. The higher CR also opens up an even more impressive arsenal including emp strikes (3), small orbital strikes (4), and the massive orbital strike (5). It allows the high command rank players to more signifigantly impact the battlefield itself, helping to drive their troops forward. Overall, it give the horde a purpose and motivation, keeping it moving towards the endless series of objectives (just like MA hordes, but with more focused guiding intelligence... mobile spawns help too).
The second major feature is called "PopLock". Each of the 3 sides have a permantely safe home base. All of the battlefields are on individual islands you have to teleport to. Each side is only allowed so many people per island (game balance/server load issues). Once an Island fills for your side, the population lock kicks in, forcing people to other fronts, or making them wait in line to catch up with friends. It helps keep the fights going all over the place by enforcing a balanced disposition of forces. In other words, it encourages hordes to meet headlong and slug it out, while other more specialized teams (who hate the laggy Zergs) basically turn into commandos, pick their own fights, or cause so much chaos a Zerg forms just to fight them.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Hmmm ... we were discussing what's wrong with the MA ... actually, we haven't wandered off-topic at all, have we?
I dont think so...the real issue is varying expectations. Anton and levi have significantly different views of what "gameplay" is and probably represent two different player groups pretty well. Levi simply flys around looking for a furball or someone to bounce him.
Antons view of the game is a bit more difficult for me to grasp but its clear that he feels threatened by slower more obsolete aircraft.
Personally I really dont think the plane is important, the game is 80%+ pilot. I'm tooling around in a Ki-61 right now and I dont care what I run into. The only 1 vs 1's I've lost have been to better pilots (at least that occasion:)). It's all a matter of perspective....if I get bounced by a high slowfire I'm always pointing the nose up instead of down anyway.
I guess its a modification of the old "a mig on your 6 is better than no mig at all" concept. I'd rather be chased by the horde than milkrunning a bunch of useless "rank building" hops.
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Originally posted by humble
I dont think so...the real issue is varying expectations. Anton and levi have significantly different views of what "gameplay" is and probably represent two different player groups pretty well. ...
I know ... the whole "stall-fighter v. bore-n-zoom" thing is just useless though.
If you wanna furball - go ahead - just don't give someone else crap when they won't play to your advantage, and don't whine about getting gang-banged when you're rotating in the same spot for 5 minutes.
If you wanna bore-n-zoom - go ahead - just don't whine about only getting assists and not getting a check-6 call when someone creeps up on you during a 2-mile long extend.
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I've just recently returned to AH after a lay-off of a few months myself. I've been playing AW/AH for going on 6 years now and have taken several breaks over the years. Sometimes you just get tired of the same ole same ole but invariably after a little while off you start to miss it. I've never had a problem with MA, its what I enjoy. I only play a few hours a week so when I want to get on the computer and have a little fun for an hour or two it fits the bill perfectly.
Now I will say that the old small arenas in AW did have a certain appeal to them. You could more often as not find 1v1 fights pretty easily and some really nice furballs would errupt over bases fairly regularly. It was easier to get a group together to attack a base and you really got to know the people who regularly played in that arena, both friend and foe alike. The larger arena's are fun in that you can always find a fight somewhere pretty easily, whereas with the smaller arena's the numbers could be a REAL problem from time to time its not that way too often in the MA. Even though one side may get overwhelmed and ganged on they still have a better fighting chance than a side that got ganged on in the smaller arena's.
AS for realistic (ie historical play) I'm not as familiar with TOD as I was with scenario's in AW. I know there have been some scenario's in AH but they dont seem to be as prevalent as they were in AW. I actually found those to be a lot of fun and really gave a historical feel. Even though having to wait a frame or two for a ride sometimes was a pain it added to the realism in that you felt like a reserve pilot waiting for a slot to open up in your squadron and it made you VERY conscious of not dying. Death had some very REAL conscequences, you didnt get to fly the next frame and maybe even the one after that. But you felt a part of something and like a grunt you would wonder about the plans being formulated by the higher ups and when it all went to crap you wondered what they were thinking. You also got to know people who before had only been a name that appeared on the screen in the MA.
I suppose like anything in life what you get out of it is in direct relation to what you put into it and most importantly, what you hope to get out of it.
There are lots of ways to enjoy AH, the trick is to find what works for you and if that becomes stale or boring to go find something else in the game thats fun for you.
Fun is like the old saying, "One man's trash is another man's treasure"
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I know ... the whole "stall-fighter v. bore-n-zoom" thing is just useless though
I think that your right to a degree, what % of the population is really pure ACM vs the "immersion/simulation" part. I flew TOD friday with my new squad. Certainly fun, but I got to bomb an ammo bunker in two hops:cool: ....I had a blast and will fly TOD with em every chance I get but it does mimick the reality...99% boredom. I think my comment on vox was ..."2 hours flying around needing to take a leak, so this is what real combat is like":)....
Personally I want a fight...even an unfair one. Obviously the 3rd nikki/7th lala in is a bit much but even so...
My only real beef is the suicide buffs...simply since flying at 20 ft eliminates my ability to fight in 3 dimensions and makes the uber guns even more deadly. Combine that with the "roll out of the barrel" ballistics of the Ki-61 and its almost always a suicide mission to stop em.
I dont understand why folks whine about lala's, spitties etc...I hated nikkis in AH1 but in 2 they are much more realistic....ENY is actually great for me since I only fly 40+ stuff most of the time.
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Originally posted by humble
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My only real beef is the suicide buffs...simply since flying at 20 ft eliminates my ability to fight in 3 dimensions and makes the uber guns even more deadly. Combine that with the "roll out of the barrel" ballistics of the Ki-61 and its almost always a suicide mission to stop em.
I dont understand why folks whine about lala's, spitties etc...I hated nikkis in AH1 but in 2 they are much more realistic....ENY is actually great for me since I only fly 40+ stuff most of the time.
The low-alt formations is really a bigger problem than people want to admit. Folks should be damn glad HTC doesn't employ me to admin the MA cuz I'd turn formations off in a heartbeat - there's cerftainly been enough whining about them, so let the folks who've been abusing the feature whine for a while.
My gripe with La's and N1K's is it's just so boring to always see the same crap in the air. Especially since 75% of the time it's just HO-reverse-repeat with those planes.
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perk the Nik and La7 like the C-hog. Reason HT perked it was everyone was flying it all the time. I think HT should perk the "top of the line" of each set of planes. C-hogs the best due to cannons....tho the -1 is a sweet killin machine. The Spit 9 is the class of that field...don't count the spit 14 as its concidered one of those "elite" rides. The D9 for the 190, the G10 for the 109s you can even put the p47-30 in that list.
That way you only have people who want to fly them for being "them" instead of grabbin the "ubber" ride of choice and HO all night. C-hog hovers around 8 perks to ride it, make those other the same. You want to ride the class of that field, make them pay for it !
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Perk a 1942 aircraft? Lol.
The Spit IX is pretty mediocre in AH2, as is the N1K2-J. Why do you think their usage numbers have been plumeting?
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Running from guys in a faster plane is now air combat?
-- Todd/Leviathn
For the record, this is where the topic turned into personal attacks.
Humble= your anology of the Yak would be great if all fights were 1on1, but thats not the case now is it?
Seeker= its not just the seemingly endless ammo load out, or the effective range of said loadout, nor the R.O.C., Turn rate, roll rate, loop capabilities, stall capabilities,(breath) nor the stability at VERY slow to moderately fast speeds. HOWEVER, when you roll all that into 1 plane= well, it bored me in about 18 months of play, that was 2 years ago.
Levi= Having a discussion with you is very similar to arguing with my ex, your right because you say so & theres no amount of logic that could possibly sway you. So, as with my Ex, I will just stop responding, let you have the last word & think that you have won.
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My answer is= I dont care whats wrong with MA anymore, it seems to complex to contemplate the cure for free. But when the folks that get paid to fix it get their job done, Myself & my money will return.
Anton
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Originally posted by anton
For the record, this is where the topic turned into personal attacks.
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Personal? Sure, but it struck at a more general point. You made recommendations about improving the "air combat" elements of Aces High, and yet I feel you largely ignored or at least failed to maximize such elements while playing the game. AH is far from perfect (low-level suicide buffs come to mind), but air combat is still alive and well if you make an honest effort to find it.
Levi= Having a discussion with you is very similar to arguing with my ex, your right because you say so & theres no amount of logic that could possibly sway you. So, as with my Ex, I will just stop responding, let you have the last word & think that you have won.
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Logic goes a long way toward swaying me. Please point to where in this thread you presented me with any logical or well-articulated arguments. Your point about how we really can't see eye to eye on this issue is accurate, and it gets to the heart of why I'm still playing, and you are not. I think we need say little more on the matter.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Humble= your anology of the Yak would be great if all fights were 1on1, but thats not the case now is it?
Anton,
Obviously the MA is a much more saturated enviornment (compared to 99-01) and lots of factors come into play. However, All in all the yak has much more control over its enviornment then a spitV. I've been flying the Ki and have had relatively few problems even vs the "horde" and I'm a pretty average pilot. Maybe its all about expectations...I dont really expect to survive all that often, So when I trundle back with a 4 or 5 kill hop in a KI-61 the smile seems to last a long time. I'm 85-31 (2.74-1) in KI and have flown it since thursday of last week (1st time in AH2). If I wanted to fly it a bit "Safer" I'd probably be about 100-10. If I tried to fly like Levi or the other phonebooth aces I'd be 20-100.
Your 71-21 (3.38-1) in the Yak, given the current realities I'd say thats a pretty decent performance...
Now levi is 353-66 (5.34-1)...in a plane that cant run or hide he has an amazing k/d ratio....
Personally I'd love to get my #'s up where yours are, but I'm not going to alter my "style" to do it....so I'll just limp along stuck back in the pack I guess...
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Originally posted by TalonX
I need to look into this. Is it still going on?
I really enjoyed flying in the SEA during SO. 1 life to live.
Yes, Friday Squad Ops are still going on. You can register a squad and see details of the current Friday SO on our Events Server (http://events.hitechcreations.com/) It's probably a bit late for the current SO, but would be in good time for the next one. Meanwhile, you could probably join the current SO as a guest in one of the existing registered squads - try posting asking for a Guest spot in the Squad Operations forum. Sunday SOs are currently on hold until the New Year, but the same applies to them and we need new squads to register for Sundays. :)