Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: sourkraut on April 03, 2000, 12:36:00 PM
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On Sunday I went in to the training area after the SE to practice some ACM. As I am flying along in autotrim (as I read the ACM manual) up pops another pilot who asks if I want to duel. I replied no, I am working on ACM and proceed to go about my business. Shortly after he is on my 6 and promptly shoots me down. After I typed : "You must be kidding! Go away." He apologized and proceeded to hound me as I flew along, occassionly throwing some lead my way. I tried to ignore him, but everytime I manuevered he was there.
What are the rules of etiquette in the TA?
Was I being unreasonable asking this guy to leave me alone?
Sour
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Sourkraut
JG-2 Richthofen (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
"Hey - someone has to be the target...."
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/saurkraut.gif)
[This message has been edited by sourkraut (edited 04-03-2000).]
[This message has been edited by sourkraut (edited 04-03-2000).]
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Often the TA degenerates into a roving furball (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)..where once your wheels up your somewhat in danger. However, normally player wishes are honored with regard to combat. I've had a few instances of being hosed on the runway..or being interupted while training someone. These are rare events and not the norm in my experience.
Ask a trainer to intervene if it happens again. I'd also change countries and move away from the main action. The TA doubles as the "dueling" arena so you'll always have folks looking for quick action.
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My personal opinion is that the TA is what we make of it...
If you radioed the person asking him to leave you alone, that should be enough. I would then tell them you are filming the events, and would they care to know you intend to mail the film to HTC. That really should do it. If they continue after that point I would most definitely send the film to HTC.
It's true the TA can be a dueling arena. It is also true I often get shot by people when I'm training others- which is fine by me, that's what I'm there for. OTOH, when someone ignores your request to be left alone, and then shadows you, that is harrassment. There is no room for that here. Newbie or not, that is a lesson that is best learned early. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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I've had very good luck avoiding being shot at in the TA when I announce that I'd like to be left alone. One idiot one time thought it was cute to shoot me down 4 or 5 times as I was taking off, but I got the hint and moved to another base.
In general though, I think it's a strength of the game that there's a place you can go to practice "off the record."
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John Sponauer
Senior Editor, SimHQ.com
jsponauer@simhq.com
Grandson of a Navigator (15th AF, 460th BG, 761st)
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Here's the only documentation I've found regarding rules in TA:
"The only request that HTC asks of you is to please be courteous of others and do not disrupt training sessions in progress.
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
=CO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
"Experience is a hard teacher because she
gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-05-2000).]
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Being courteous of others does include honoring one's request to be left alone. You weren't being unreasonable, Sour.
Ronni
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Veronica "Ronni" Newman
Sr. Programmer/Webmaster
HiTech Creations, Inc.
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I also am having trouble in the training arena.ankly I am sick and tired of players coming by and hosing newbies (like me) on the runway (vulching) or while I am trying to learn from another trainer / player. I left 2 times today over this garbage (I would prefer a better word). The training arena, in my experiance, is just a place for someone to get an easy kill as it is the one known place to find newbies. I expect to get killed in the main arena. I do NOT expect to have another player constantly vulch, or jump into a training flight like antman did this evening. If you want to teach newbies how to die, just drop the training arena. If newbies are to have any chance of learning in the training arena please restrict access to it. Being hosed during the training by a player just wanting to be a total jerk is not training. It's a waste of money and there are other ways to spend money for new players to investigate.
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Perhaps a solution to this problem would be to designate 1 field per country for training purposes only. When players log in they would recieve a pop-up message similar to the TOD change over we get informing them of this.
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I have a formal request, proposal or whatever you would like to call it. I would like to see the training arena dropped. I have found it to be a non training arena and only suitable for the vulching and hunting of newbies by experianced players.
The experiance I have had there indicates it is non functional as a training tool. You have a far better chance of taking off or driving out of the vehicle shed in the regular arena. I was vulched numerous times today by a player who camped in this arena for an extended time. I saw this player stay here doing the same thing when I came back after 3 hours. When I came up there was no offer of training or help. I was just shot before I could even get the engine started in the tank. There was no oportunity to see what the tank could do or how to operate it. The same happened to me on take off in a plane.
There was only one field that was being used by players so if you wanted to train, the options were fly / drive by yourself (which can be done offline quite as well) or operate from the ocupied field.
This arena could be better if it were simply a dueling zone. There is no training going on as far as I could see in 4 out of 5 visits there. The one time I did get training it was cut short by another experianced player jumping into the training and shooting me down during the lesson. Repeated requests to refrain were ignored and in fact were returned in a taunting manner.
Tonight when I asked if there was a trainer present, the players doing the vulching sarcastically told me to go to another field and practice by myself.
I do not see this as much of a quality gaming experiance. I do not know how to take care of this situation but I think the administrators need to take SOME kind of action to allow newbies to learn the game. If you want to lose customers, just let it go the way it is. You expect to be shot up in the main arena. You do NOT expect to be killed before you can even start the engine in your vehicle in the training arena. Placing a tank just outside the vehicle "barn" and shooting each new vehicle as it appears does not accomplish training, neither does the systematic hunting and vulching of new players by experianced players in that arena. If you aren't there to train or learn from trainers then stay the hell out ot it.
At the present time, If you are a newby, go to the main arena and learn. Players there are more likely to answer your questions and allow you to get into the air than in the practice arena. My experiance is that there are no trainers in the training arena to learn from.
Mav
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just have a designated free for all field for the quick action seekers in the popup when the game loads the arena
say:
"Field 1 is designated Free for all field"
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With the main arena to play in, WHY IS IT NECESSARY TO HAVE A FREE FIRE ZONE??
Particularly in the TRAINING arena. If it isn't for training it shouldn't be listed for training.
Have a seperate DUELING FREEFIRE zone arena instead of using training arena, particularly in the default field when you log into the arena.
Mav
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Maverick -
1. Post the abusers handle on the UBB. I will the next time this happens to me (warning to blueice).
2. Record film and email to HTC. I will the next time this happens to me (warning to blueice).
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sour
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Sourkraut
JG-2 Richthofen (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
"Hey - someone has to be the target...."
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/saurkraut.gif)
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Maverick-
What time do you log in? Have you contacted any trainers to set up a time for them to be there?
As a trainer, here is my login procedure:
1. Check to see if anyone is in TA.
2. If even one player is there, I will log in and ask if they need help.
3. If no one needs help I leave and go to the MA. I do this because flying in circles alone does nothing to sharpen ACM skills I'm supposed to teach.
4. If someone in the MA needs help, I invite them in private to the TA.
5. Some nights as I leave the MA I will announce I am going to the TA.
With the new release I have also spent more time in the MA learning the things I need to teach in the TA. I feel the main purpose of the trainers is to teach others how to be successful in the MA or any other arena. I can't teach until I have learned myself.
You are right about the TA being unruly at times; and if you read above you can see how to handle it. The trainers are not guards and have no more power to dictate what happens there than anyone else (and frankly, I don't want that power. I am not the one losing money when players are booted).
If someone is mistreating you there, ask them to stop. Film their behavior if they do not, and send it to HTC.
There is no schedule for trainers, and this was the way it was intended. If you want to post on here a time you can make it, I'm sure one of us would be happy to help.
And for the record, the bulk of my last tour was spent in the TA, night after night. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) That has typically been 3-4 nights, 2 hours a night (8:30-10:30 PM EST). I have seen many other trainers in at those times too.
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Thanks for the selection of ideas. AS soon as I learn how to do the camera, I'll be happy to film any problems I have in the TA.
I was in the TA in the morning on Sunday then later in the day and into the night. I was on 3 times from 6:00pm Pacific through 11:00pm Pacific. Only the last time I came on about 10:30 PM did I see the player who was camped there all evening had left. By that time there was a trainer, Weasel (sorry about spelling if I goofed it up) there but I had to log by 11:00PM.
I can't set a time to play or train. I am getting playing time "on the fly" between the job, family and my wifes cancer treatments. If I had a schedule I could do some set training or playing times but I just get on when I can.
I guess the lack of spare time is one reason why I hate to have it wasted from being vulched or otherwise take as an easy kill. As far as I know, I am likely to be the easiest darn kill in the game. I would like to CHANGE that.
Is there a page with the ney keymaps on it? I need to see how or what to use for the tanks other gunnery positions. The main gunb is nice but not much help while being stafed.
Mav
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Mav;
Check out Hitech Creations Web Page (http://www.hitechcreations.com/).
Look under Help --> Getting Started.
Good Luck!
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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You can film with the "alt-R" command. You will see a red "R" in the upper-left corner of your screen. It will be saved under "films" in your HTC directory.
I understand about your schedule; why not go to the MA and look under "roster". If you see me on, give a yell! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by sourkraut:
Maverick -
1. Post the abusers handle on the UBB. I will the next time this happens to me (warning to blueice)...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sour
BI did that after you asked him to quit? And I thought he was such a nice and courteous target all this time. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Tern
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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"There I was, inverted at 50 feet and 120 kts. and the only thing running was the radio."
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I'm curious why the TA doesn't have an option for "invulnerability"? In DOS AW, when you shot someone down in the TA, they exploded and you got the kill, but their a/c didn't crash (in fact, it refueled and rearmed to the settings that it had on takeoff).
That was a very useful feature, because a trainer and student could get airborne and then the trainer could receive multiple killing passes from the student, without the hassle of replaning. And it prevented (for the most part) harassment.
[This message has been edited by Waxer (edited 04-11-2000).]
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Your on thin ice yourself tern!
I have hopes now that H2H is up & working that the training arena can now go back to being used for TRAINING!
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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
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Was in the training area, trimming out, minding my own business and also typing to Weazel who was also in training area. Some schmuck just shoots me down. He must of felt pretty good about himself flaming a non-maneuvering target. What a hero!!
Took off from different field (wanted to practice some ACM), and was hounded by some loon in a F4U. Well no doubt this person must related to the Hero and tries to saddle up on me. Sure enough here comes the bullets! So I maneuver out of the way and I dive to open range hoping this tick would get the message. No dice! For bozo starts a hi speed pass on me. Shortly after that I shot him down. Children!
Have a little respect for others in the training area. If someone does not want to duel or is not engaging you, then find yourself other entertainment.
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Swager
-XO- II/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 04-11-2000).]
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It is pretty simple. If you can't abide by our rules then don't expect to fly with the 332nd. Below is a cut and paste right off our squad home page. Been that way for almost 3 years.
Etiquette
1. Friendly, teasing banter is not a problem, but the moment it becomes ridicule, insulting or arrogant you will need to find another squadron.
2. Foul, abusive, or insulting language is not acceptable toward any pilot from any country.
3. Respectful attitude toward all squadron members.
4. Good attitude toward all pilots regardless of country.
5. Willingness to help those new to the game
Praise and encouragement to squadron members and those who fly for the Knights.
7. "Six" calls whenever possible, Knights only (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (this is a great way to make some friends)
See for yourself. http://www.ropescourse.org/rules&.htm (http://www.ropescourse.org/rules&.htm)
It is a shame not all can fly with respect toward others. Thankfully most here do. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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daddog C.O.
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Where men become friends and friends become brothers.
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A big, hearty S! to the 332nd! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Prolly dumb question..but why fly along by your lonesome in the Training Arena? that can be done 'offline' pretty easy. Is it different playin online than off? I thought it was the samething. Maybe someone can enlighten me on this.
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Very different. There are people in the Training Arena (TA), and none offline.
You can shoot and kill things in the TA, fuel is not on the same multiplier (lasts longer), and killshooter is off (you can shoot friendlies). This is to facilitate training, though some players abuse it. (BTW, if anyone ever wants to see a study in why killshooter should stay in the main, drop by the TA (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
You can get instruction in the TA, practice ACM, or just get to know some of the personalities.
There were 20 players in there tonight practicing in the armour. Very interesting!
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Biggest single difference between the TA & the main is that the TA is NOT A FREE FIRE ZONE!
Please just have the courtesy to ASK before shooting.
Nothing more frustrating than to spend a half hour setting up for a tank vs tank battle and have some hot jock come by & kill you.
Or shooting at planes takeing off in M16 for that matter.
It is up to all of us not just trainers.
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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
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Maybe what is actually needed is one more arena. In parallel to the Training Arena, but more like an "Instant Action Arena" (IAA).
All that is needed in the IAA would be 3 bases on mountain tops that are at close range to each other. This arena would be simply a "Free for ALL". You fly you die, friend or foe down you go.
What I find is that alot of people go to the TA to do this anyway, especially players new to the game.
I have participated in several Free for All's in the TA. They are very fun and a nice change of pace, because the action is non-stop.
The addtition of an IAA might be the easiest solution.
<S> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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I like that idea min! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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daddog C.O.
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Where men become friends and friends become brothers.
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If they add this , you got my 30 bucks .
Been looking to just a place like that to fly air to air , great place to practice , what with NO AI in the offine game .
Good idea , Minotaur , I hope AH staff does it .
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well i signed on went to the training area 4-14-00 go shot by a tank parked on the runway of the default base turned to shoot the tank in response to his attack on me. I hit some other planes on the runway on accident mainly Torque(i guess) while trying to pay back the tank. Sorry
I do not agree with sitting at the default base that everyone comes to and vulching or sitting in a tank and shooting planes taking off.I am under the impression this is training arena to train not to vulch. If this what you want to do then it should be at another base other than the default that everyone ends up on when they sign on. Maybe it is just me but from what i read it isn't and this really needs to be addressed we need to work some thing out here or there are alot of people going to get mad and it is just going to get worse.
I don't mind the vulching just not at the first base that everyone is comming to when the arrive in the arena that base should be the designated "safe" base if there is only going to be one alotted for traing purposes.
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When it is feasible I would like to see a "Target Practice Arena". An arena where ther is a constant stream of pilotless drones flying, using various formations and techniques (i.e. horizontal and vertical scisssors, loops, level and climing,....).
It would give us newbies an arean to practice firing weapons and sharpen those target skills.
I have spent a lot of time in the TA, and have noted many things that impede my ability to learn the specifics about the aircraft I am flying in, but I have also noted many quality folks that extend help to us newbies.
I have learned to make use of the .move command a lot. When I just want to practice in a plane to get to know what the plane is capable of, I move to a deserted airfield.
One day I can see HTC putting upa full fledged electronic flight training course for the sim. I would not ask for it now, but I could see that happening one day.
In the meantime, there are always going to be immature people who have no desire to take the time to learn to be a good pilot and are only interested in what they can blow up. It is just the nature of any online game.
And who knows, one day we might have a private radio channel we can use in the training areas. One where the list of available pilots is shown and you click on the piolts name, which sends a private message asking that pilot to join a private radio channel. Then only those pilots will be able to see what each other are saying to each other and the rest of the radio broadcasts are not shown.
Do I expect to see any of the above in the near future,....absolutely not. HTC has set thier priorities, and I think they have done a bang up job of executing and delivering on those priorities and where they are right now is, IMHO, the right place to be.
HTC knows the newbies are important, and they have shown that by providing us with a list of trainers. They know the newbie needs to get confidence in thier ability to fly against the seasoned vets of this type of sim. It is thier best interests.
So for right now, with HTC in thier current stage of developing this sim, it is important we newbies work with the tools HTC has provided us and find ways to get around the immature person that stalks the current TA.
So far, I have seen some extremely good pilots, who have no problem at all in helping anyone that really wants to learn to be good at this sim. If you do not see anyone that can help in the TA, go to the MA and you will usually find someone there that will switch to the TA and help you out.
And some folks just do not know that the TA has a proper etiquette to follow. Point it out to those who may not be aware of it.
From one newbie to another,.....hope it helps.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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You are correct Skuzzy, some people don't know what the correct etiquette is.
The problem is mainly with those that, once told, refuse to conform. This is where the abuses occur.
At times it is very busy in the TA. That is good and bad. This weekend I spent all my time there (outside tournament duel time). I saw many who were there for FFA (free fight arena), some that were experimenting with ground vehicles, some that wanted to try specific airplanes, and some raw beginners. I tried to be as helpful as possible, as did many others that were not trainers. But there were clearly some present that had no desire to be cooperative.
Case in point; a few of us went to the SEA for a tournament duel late last night. We weren't there long before a new guy pops in and asks where we are, he wants a fight. We told him we had a duel going, and he needed to go to the MA or TA if he wanted to fight someone. "But I wanna play with you!" he said. We again politely told him to leave us alone and go to the TA. After a bit of silence we get the "F*** YOU GUYS, I'M HERE ALL ALONE!" These are the guys I have a problem with, not the new guy that has a 1,000 questions, is impatient, doesn't "see" what I'm trying to show him. I don't mind a guy popping in and shooting me down unnannounced IF he stops afterward if I ask him to. Judging from the complaints I hear, it is the same for most.
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Forgot to mention this:
http://www.hpcisp.com/~kieren/radio.htm (http://www.hpcisp.com/~kieren/radio.htm)
and
http://www.hpcisp.com/~kieren/kneepad.htm (http://www.hpcisp.com/~kieren/kneepad.htm)
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True Kieren. There are those that no matter what you do, they are going to be jerks.
In all online games, I find there is at least one person like this.
They are a nuisance, but they will always be ever present. It is just the nature of Internet online games/sims.
For right now, there is not a whole lot we can do, other than let HTC know about it.
One day HTC will have the time to add features to the sim which could help control this, but right now, we should just ack that there will be times when idiots are going to cause some problems.
About the only thing we can do, to me knowledge, is just ignore them and hope they go away.
We could adopt the "gangbang" option when someone like this shows up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). I saw this in the TA one day. One of these jerks showed up and after repeated warnings about the use of proper etiquette in the TA, from several pilots, everyone went after him, taking him out on the runway and doing whatever they could to keep him from flying.
After uttering some explicitives to the crowd, he left. It gave a lot of pilots a chance to practice gunnery skills (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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Gentlemen,
It is with sincere respect that I write this post to you. Our squad, the Green Mountain Boys, just recently signed on Blue Ice as a member. I had no idea he was acting as such in the training arena. I have sent him a note of repremand and sent our entire squad a list of TA etiquette.
Our squad is built on integrity, honor, and repsect. The GMB's desire is to grant this to all other squads and give them honor as fellow pilots. It is NOT our intention to cause any problems among anyone in the AH arenas. We have built a very respected unit in WB's and desire to do the same here. If any of our members becomes a "bad apple" he will be asked to step down from the squad.
My humblest apologies for this. And Sour, you have my personal apologies for Blue Ice's poor judgement.
Frank "Jedman" Dolansky
CO, VMF-158, Green Mountain Boys
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I've spent a pretty fair amount of time in the TA over the last couple of days..making up for last week (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)..all in all it seemed pretty good. Very few incidents of "harassment" and no vulching at all that I saw...except citabria hosing me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...which I consider a friendly hello. The few times I had to comment on events the individuals involved responded promptly..and correctly.
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this is what i see about the TA.
it is there for everyone to learn and try different things .but there should be somethings set in stone here .
one field should be set for call you merge and 1 vs 1, 1 field should be the FFA (FREE FOR ALL) and another should be for the trainers to use to teach ppl. as i see it now everyones ups at the same field most are FFA and the ppl that want 1 vs 1 are the ones getting there panties in a wad because they get jumped by 2,3 or more at a time.
guess what im trying to say is if you want 1 vs 1 or a training session don't up at the field where everyone is at.
another thing ...one sure way to get pounced by everyone is to vulch or start whining over the radio. you will surely get bombarded by everyone wanting a piece of your panzy oscar...........
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After better than 8 years on AW I decided to try something different, like Aces High...So I download it and set up an account, did a few take offs and landing off line and headed for the online...there was the Training arena......Hmmmmm looked like a good place to start, upped in a P51 ready to try a landing, banked around chopped the gas, dropped the gear and flaps and have lined up on the runway and bingo some nice guy who gos by the handle of Skyhunter burns me with out warning..ok what the hell I'll try somewhere else its only a game.so I upped at another field in a B17, head out for a little alt. and bank back for the field as I'm doing this someone makes a pass at me, looking around it looks clear and here I go again for a landing, I'm starting down to the runway, gear down, flaps down, low and slow and again one of these nice guys pops me again this one by the name of Saw....Now I'm reading here that all I have't to do tell them to back off, well heres one for all you baby seal killers in the training "try asking before you shoot" or is this the only way you can get a kill.....never in 8 years did this happen to me in Aw's training arenas, I had expected better!
bobo the baby seal
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Bobo-
I hate to hear about this kind of thing.
I am a trainer, and when I am in I try very hard to keep the atmosphere one that everyone can enjoy. Granted, there is little I can do other than repeatedly ask people to behave, but I do try.
Soon trainers will have the .eject command. While I don't relish having to use it, I will when necessary.
And Robert, someone asking you to stop following them around is not being pansy, it is them asking you to leave them alone so they can do what they pay money to do- learn some aspect of the game. What I can't understand is what someone with this attitude is doing in the TA to begin with. The MA will have all the people you need to "hunt" you can ever dream of. If you want to hunt whiners, go there and leave the people alone who are obviously (by virtue of the fact they have moved to another field) there to learn something.
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bobo, i'm sorry to here you got bounced like that. The TA here is acting as a training/newbie/furball/ arena and obviously there are issues...I posted to a similiar post WW put up that pertains to my actions. I'll try and enforce courtesy whenever possible, 99% of the time i've found that folks back off on request. I spent at least 45 min with SkyHunter and he's trying to learn the game. Today he was on the recieving end from NASH, who is certsainly an outstanding pilot who's conduct I find outstanding. I know the learning curve in any online sim is tough, and here it's brutal. At least here in the TA everyone of the "aces" who drop in seem willing to explain a bit about what happened...far better than my time in AW where most of em (the non-trainers) would simply kill ya till you gave up with out a word of help.
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kieren...
all i have to say is get both sides of the story before hand...i remeber the time you are talking about ... the person (can't remember his name)asked me to leave him alone as i did. i logged of after a breif conversation over the radio where i told him that is was over and i was leaving which i did. this is my #1 rule in the TA.
IF I GET SHOT AT I WILL SHOOT BACK !!
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Robert, you misunderstand-
I am referring to the remark you made about someone making themselves a target by "whining on open channel". I am not referring to any particular arena episode, only the thought that someone that complains about something that shouldn't happen in the first place should be hunted down.
one sure way to get pounced by everyone is to vulch or start whining over the radio. you will surely get bombarded by everyone wanting a piece of your panzy oscar...........
Yes, I agree vultchers deserve death. The guy on the the open channel, well... this is the TA.
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Skuzzy.
LMAO .. I love your post about the gangbanging. It had a real "Revenge of the nerds" ring to it. I love it.
I don't believe one wrong fixes another, but it sure was funny!
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Humble hmmm 45 min with Skyhunter did i learn anything? must have been a late night on auto we will have to do it again must have missed that one. cee ya up Sky
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We may have to different ID's here ... been working with SkyHunter off and on for last few days. Is that you? If so, then my altzhimer's must be acting up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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hmmm my id is Skyhuntr with no e most letters
aloud in handle must be some one else useing my handle in ta? is this possible dont know for shur and i dont think it was me that shot Bobo on the field i dont do that with with others in ta. i ask first unless
they fire first was it Skyhigh a new handle i have seen the last week?
hope i dont have to chang my handle to make shur im not confused with others
see ya up Sky
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Skyhuntr,
I thought about that after we ran into each other in the TA tonight. You may be correct that it was SkyHigh...not certain. that was a long binge for me that day (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)..so I was somewhat fried by the end and may have confused "handles"...sorry for any confusion.
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Skyhuntr,
I thought about that after we ran into each other in the TA tonight. You may be correct that it was SkyHigh...not certain. that was a long binge for me that day (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)..so I was somewhat fried by the end and may have confused "handles"...sorry for any confusion.
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I was rereading these two threads and focused on the post mentioning blueice. I think this depicts a significant portion of the problem.
Blueice is a "newbie" with no bad intentions. He simply didn't know better and it took him time to learn proper "rules of engagement". I think we have an educational issue here. I do agree that a posting of general "rules of engagement" is in order to help with this issue.
However, one major issue remains. The true purpose of the arena. Obviously views vary and are interspersed with comments, examples and editorial's. The following is my view of the TA's "mission statement".
This is a combat flight sim, if your purpose is to simply "fly" a better choice is flight unlimited or such. What seperates AH from the "canned games" is the combination of flight model and real pilot's. Now, in the main arena most of the better sticks focus on killing...and they are very good at it. They are also very competitive and can't/won't take time to chat at the expense of their situational awareness. They also don't always offer "fair" fights...to anyone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
So, you need a place where skills can be learned in a somewhat more "friendly" manner.
Does that mean mercy, no it means explanation and "coaching". Now as far as I'm concerned the "sterile" enviornment some would favor bears little resemblence to the "real" world of the Main Arena. What good does it do to artificially hamper the development of situational awareness, tactical flying etc so these players can go get shredded in the arena.
Now, vulching and/or repeatedly hosing some poor trainee is uncalled for and should be treated harshly. But this is a combat sim and I think that a few of us are missing that point. Additionally this is a training arena, not an arena restricted to "new members". On many occasions I'm the trainee, not the trainer...and i've racked up 3+ yr's of mediocrity in these endevours. Brook (old AW flier) said it best " I'm above the unwashed masses and below the god's ". Personally I'm tickled that the "gods" take a moment now and then to answer the inevitiable "How the hell did you do THAT?
[This message has been edited by humble (edited 04-23-2000).]
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I came from another sim Fighter Ace 1.5 and 2.0..In both versions the place I learned most of my situational awareness and gunney was in the "freeforall"rooms.Something like that would be good for guy who isnt brand new but could use the quick combat to learn more rapidly on his own against unforgiving opponents...just an idea for AH
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---edit-----
hrmph.. another thread just caught my eye. Just found this forum - but yegads - sure is heavy in here huh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'll post my thoughts there - cuz it looks like my name's been brought up. <sigh> hehe
But let us not fool ourselves. These are dark and trying times gentlemen. The TA frought with peril, greed, seal clubbin' and just downright pure eeeevil. The strong prosper, the meek perish in glowing balls of engine fire.
wotevah. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Most people get it, some don't, and some refuse to. I'll post my thoughts over there.
It's 5am and I got an appointment with bed.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 04-24-2000).]
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Ya know nash if it's heavy in here maybe you should be asking yourself WHY?
If you'r not part of the solution, your part of the problem!
Turn killshooter back on in the TA.
Send 90% of those in the TA back to main, or H2H. Leave the TA for actual with a trainer TRAINING!
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I've spent mant hours in the TA over the last week, and NASH has been a positive presence each and every time I've been up.
Ghosth...I can't recall seeing you in the TA. Are you speaking from personal observation's at other times?
I can't comment on the training arena or procedures at WB..but I'll say this, the training setup at AW sucked. Not the trainers, they were outstanding. I hope to be 1/2 as good at teaching this stuff as seal and the others were. But in AW, you went...and sat...and waited...finally got a trainer, went up and worked...then no place to work on it afterward.
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Hmble,
I thought you where complaining before that AW sucked cause in the newbie arena you kept getting shot down? You mentioned how Vets where logging into the newbie arena there and killing newbies.
Now your saying you had no place to work on stuff?!?
I'm confused!
--Quote from other thread--
As for how I view newbie's...I've carried my cpid since I picked it after a day of being hosed in the AW "newbie" arena by all the vets who got there rocks off stalking us "deer in the headlight's" types.
[This message has been edited by WW (edited 04-24-2000).]
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Wow, I've been missing some hot posts! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) You know, it seems to me that the solution is simple. Just have another arena created for the sole purpose of Free For Alls. Until we do this there will always be problems. If you are new to this game, how can it be expected of you to know not to shoot at any thing you see in the training arena? I've only been in the training arena once myself, and that was to help someone with the radio functions. When I was there I didn't see any of this type of behavior going on.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Boy is there ever a problem in the training area.
The problem is that no one really knows what the training area is for, or what is accepted in that arena.
I stayed away for quite some time thinking it was just for new pilots like the one in Airwarrior that Bobo mentioned. Then I came in one day to try some things out and noticed there was a free for all going on where you could instantly try out new maneuvers, different planes, and practice gunnery on each other. Sounds great I said and joined right it. I got some great tips from the trainers like Humble. Naturally, I avoided shooting down the newbies that were obviously be coached on how to fly with a trainer, and I didn't shoot people down taking off.
All was going great for hours until I dropped in on the 6 of an experience main arena pilot and shot him down. He went on for post after post about how I should know better than to do something like that in the training area. I tried to explain that we have been shooting each other down now for hours on end, and I was sorry for not knowing he wasn't part of the group, but he would have none of it.
The problem was that he expected to be in a leave alone new pilots type training area, and I was involved in a free for all practicing some really great moves expecting him to be there for the same reason.
The problem is that no one knows what to expect when entering this area and that leads to a lot of misunderstandings.
Something has to be done to post the accepted practice, or rules, for this training area just as one enters the arena.
Ranger Bob
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WW,
Let me clarify my experiences for you. I first found AW on AOL...i'd heard of it on genie..but with a baby and 2 girls from my wifes first marriage...the economics where prohibative. Having been an "ACE" at BoB, Chuck Yeager..et,al..I of course was gonna come in and just light em up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)....hehe...NOT
Now, AOL AW had a "newbie" arena..so I fired up me trusty pony...after all that WAS..Chucks ride. Of I went, wow, them 109's didn't do that in the "abbyville boys" (my favorite sortie back when). Hmmm neither did the 190's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). I was getting waxed by Yaks, then I got waxed like 32 times by a vader..yes 32 (damm they hold ammo).
Now this doesn't include the dweebs who killed the ack and setup "vulchfests". I died well over 100 times before I even saw the rear end of an other plane.
Now, the training area was different, back then training was on Wednesday at 9:00 PM EST
Since I live in Phoenix, it was almost impossible to fit in. When I did, I waited while it all sorted out..kind of like scenerio's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)..then I got 30 min to an hour..and all in all the trainers were outstanding.
But where could you practice, not in the TA, no one was up unless it was with a trainer...so back to the arena, which was much worse than the TA here ever is.
As I stated, I applaud your efforts in the TA, but I'm viewing some of the same incidents you are and do feel your twisting them somewhat. You take a single event and blow it way out of proportion.
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Turn killshooter back on in the TA.
Send 90% of those in the TA back to main, or H2H. Leave the TA for actual with a trainer TRAINING!
I agree with Ghosth,the arena was set up for training-not seal clubbing or furballing,thats what the main is for.
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Sayeth Ghosth:
"Ya know nash if it's heavy in here maybe you should be asking yourself WHY?
If you'r not part of the solution, your part of the problem!"
Have we met? Sure.... It's heavy in HERE. It certainly *aint* heavy in THERE... And for all your ideas on how to make the TA a better place for everyone, maybe you oughtta actually fly in there more often. It might give you a perspective, or at the very least a *basis* on which to suggest ways on how we could improve things. Y'all are kickin' up a toejam storm over what is really an outstanding part of Aces High. Why IS that?! Complain all ya want, but the more ya do, the more complete a picture I get of how much time you actually spend there.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 04-24-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 04-24-2000).]
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Hmble,
So if I understand you correctly, there was one training arena where peice was readily available. And another sortof FFA arena where peice was harder to come by which they called the newbie arena.
You found the newbie arena frustrating because vets would keep shooting you down and vulching you?
Now, these kinds of things don't happen anywhere near as much here as it did then in AW? When I get my wheels shot out on the runway, when someone follows me into a hanger at a remote field and kills me, when Wiz is getting shot on the runway, those are all my twisted interpretation because those things just don't happen? People being called whiners doesn't happen in there, I'm just twisting things right?
Well, ya know, I have to say your sort of right? interpretations are getting twisted. It's my interpretation of whats on the otherside of the "Traning Arena" menu option. It's an FFA, not a training arena.
If the arena is an FFA, Then nothing that's happened to me in there is subject to any ettiquette discussion. If it's not an FFA, then please educate my twisted perceptions has to how I, after only 1.5 weeks in AH can have so many names and experiences, personaly and otherwise that is subject for ettiquette discussion? I must be lieing about all these things. They never happend. Wiz who I had to spend 3 hours last night with, teach BASIC acm (how to roll, how to loop, how to turn) must be running around killing people and then whining when he get it right?
The film I have of some guy vulching Wiz on the field and Bee laughing his butt off at the whiners doesn't exist. The same film where I ask who egged the field and was told it was AirRev, that didn't happen. And when I saw AirRev doing it myself a couple days later with you in the arena, that didn't happen either.
So AH is still Beta then cause my record function is really pooched.
Each person in all of these discussions who comment on being bounced by someone while they where on the runway or on climb out, they're just imagining it.
Well, there's no debating that.
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Yer just being dweebish WW.
You've been here one and a half weeks?! And already you've become the spokesperson for all that is just and fair and good in the TA? You're keeping a list of names? You're recording the attrocities as they happen on film? My god man! I almost spat beer on my monitor last night after I shot ya and streaming through the text buffer was "I HAVE IT ON FILM! I HAVE IT ON FILM!"
Take my advice - don't try and be some kinda etiquette cop, try and *enjoy* yerself. Don't go *seeking out* injustice. Try to learn from people, help people, and yes - KILL people as best ya can. That is, after all, what we do here.
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WW,
How badly do you want to twist stuff. Damm, every post gets altered or distorted to fit your viewpoint.
Your initial post was specific to me...and MY conduct in the arena. I didn't (and don't) take any of it personally. I realize that my conduct while I'm in the trainer role is (and should) be subject to scrutiny by any and all comers. I've done my best to answer (and explain) how/why I act while acting in that role.
You've taken and expanded a legitimate complaint/issue regarding my actions and a tarred a bunch of folks I've grown to respect over the last few months based solely on your version of events.
I'm not going to keep this thread going any longer or comment again on this.
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Originally posted by bobo:
.........one of these nice guys pops me again this one by the name of Saw....Now I'm reading here that all I have't to do tell them to back off, well heres one for all you baby seal killers in the training "try asking before you shoot" or is this the only way you can get a kill.....never in 8 years did this happen to me in Aw's training arenas, I had expected better!
bobo the baby seal
Sorry to hear that Bobo, but either I was on drugs that day <G> or there must have been a missunderstanding, as I usaly ask "where is a free for all" or/and "can I join in" before I start shooting @ poeple !
If I took some fun out of that day for you, I apologise, sincerely...
Saw
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"Turn killshooter back on in the TA."
Negative. With the field distances, this means it takes to long to replane and merge for a guns-hot training session.
What we need is an EJECT command for trainers, and we need it NOW. If somebody is not complying with the rules, they are gone.