Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TalonX on October 23, 2004, 11:05:05 PM
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Have you heard this before?
The LA-7 did not have nearly the play in real life as it gets in AHII. Keep the ridiculous performance, but make em pay for it....ala the Spit XIX or Tempest.
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Or have it worth the F4u1c. I say perk it, but nothin over 10 or so.
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No.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
No.
but, but DMF, you do not need all them perks you get with the spitV vs killing all them La7s heck you never use the perks you got now :D
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:rolleyes: ... how many times can this be discussed ... with the same inevitable postings and outcome.
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thread 1 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127798&highlight=perk+AND+La7)
thread 2 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129051&highlight=perk+AND+La7)
thread 3 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126882&highlight=perk+AND+La7)
I think most of them are about unperking the current perk planes since they aren't as good as the la7 is anyway, but somewhere along the line either me or someone else will probably give the reasoning for leaving it unperked.
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yes...on perking the La-7
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Or have it worth the F4u1c. I say perk it, but nothin over 10 or so.
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I would usually agree with you on this, if I hadn't recently discovered something about the La7, that likely prevents it from being a perk plane. It seems to have a rather hard ceiling, where it first loses all gains from wep, and then steadily loses engine performance. They only really like playing near the ground.
So, dont like lala's? Drag 'em up into the ether, and tear 'em to pieces. Works for me:D
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Better yet unperk the Spit XIV
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NO / HET (NYET)!
perk her OR the others should follow!
P-51B and D (these 2 are SUPER SPIT 14s with longer range!!!)
109G-10
Fw-190A-8
Fw-190D-9/F-8
P-47D-40/25 (substitute P-47D-11 as P-47C)
P-38L (arguably the best NON PERKED fighter-bomber in game besides F4U-4)
Yak-9U
N1K2
A6M5
F4U-1D (lite and improved version on F4U-1, entered in late '44)
basically all late war stuff
and spit XIV should be perked lightly like F4U-1C...
:)
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i think kweezas "final solution" can be implemented if HTC reolease new planes to "fill the hole/gap"... like the Yak-9D, P-38G/J, A6M3, ect ect.
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The La7 does not need to be perked. If you have troubles against the La7, maybe a visit to a trainer might be in order.
ack-ack
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Im AH1 while flying a 190A5 I could turn pretty good with the LA7 , now well lets just say its like fighting a spit IMO :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Tails
So, dont like lala's? Drag 'em up into the ether, and tear 'em to pieces. Works for me:D
That's BS. Every time I've done so they simply dive for the deck when it gets rough. It doesn't work.
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whenever i get near getting behind a la7 it just presses X, and flys away from me with its 50-75mph speed advantage over what i fly.......
as soon as i give up, he turns around and zooms upbehind me as if im at walking pace! What can i do to fight that? well fly a La7, well, thats what most people seem to choose.
i can kinda unstand why the nik isnt perked.... after all its a weak plane but the LA7 is small, fast, turns well and its strong.....
thing is, i think the perk system needs reworking somehow.
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Originally posted by Overlag
whenever i get near getting behind a la7 it just presses X, and flys away from me with its 50-75mph speed advantage over what i fly.......
as soon as i give up, he turns around and zooms upbehind me as if im at walking pace! What can i do to fight that? well fly a La7, well, thats what most people seem to choose.
i can kinda unstand why the nik isnt perked.... after all its a weak plane but the LA7 is small, fast, turns well and its strong.....
thing is, i think the perk system needs reworking somehow.
Getting la7s into a good kill zone requires taking advantage of their turn radius. You want them to feel like they will get a nice kill shot on you if they just turn in your scissors. Planes with good flaps have the easiest time suckering la7s into a quick kill position. Just let him cross behind you 90degrees aot and reverse into him. His high speed will bring him right accross your nose for the quick kill shot, or he will have decieded to run despite having an apparent advantage (bore N zoom fighters). If he is too timid to put himself in a vulnerable position you probably don't need to work very hard to evade his next pass, as he most likely is a terrible pilot.
Another good way to deal with them is to fly something with either no convergence or set your convergence to very far out. With tracers on just shoot up his tail as he trys to run. Once they see they can't survive being anywhere in the 600-800 range they will usually turn until the end.
As far as dealing with the ones who just wait for you to break off before they come back in on you, all you need to do is expect this to happen. Break off and immediately check to see what your opponent is doing.
-pellik
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Originally posted by pellik
As far as dealing with the ones who just wait for you to break off before they come back in on you, all you need to do is expect this to happen. Break off and immediately check to see what your opponent is doing.
-pellik
You didn't finish this paragraph. ;) Please continue...
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Dont perk it, i want lots of la7 in the air so i get more points shooting em down.
When perked the dweeb la7s will run away faster and there is no difrence for the good pilots as they kill me anyway.
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The cost of flying La7's should be the constant questioning of their manhood on open chan, especially by their own team.
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What Pellik said. In addition, another move I like to pull on La7s that is Spit or turnfighter-limited is to pull a low-G, slightly nose down horizontal turn. Get them to commit to a tracking shot, and as they tighten their turn to cut inside you, pull a little bit harder and a little bit harder. The key is to stay just above their reticule from their point of view and never allow them to pull in closer than that; they'll almost have the shot but not quite. Soon enough they'll exhaust all of their energy trying to turn for the shot, at which point you reel them in by cranking the plane around. Usually the enemy is slow enough that even an La7 can't dive away before getting a butt full of lead.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The La7 does not need to be perked. If you have troubles against the La7, maybe a visit to a trainer might be in order.
ack-ack
Nah - my K/D against the LA-7 in any plane is about 2.5 to 3 : 1.
I enjoyed the discussion though. However disingenuous this quoted post may be. To imply the LA-7 is an easy kill to someone other than an experienced pilot shows a lack of remembering being a newer player.
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Originally posted by TalonX
To imply the LA-7 is an easy kill to someone other than an experienced pilot shows a lack of remembering being a newer player.
Or a lack of consideration for fans of rarer aircraft.
The La-7 is, frankly, the motivating factor behind my plan to switch from the Mosquito Mk VI to the Ki-84.
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The Ki84 should be an excellent LaLa killer :D
Bazi
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Absolutely not!
This month the LA7 has been a consistant perfomer as my favorite target plane. In fact I have more kills of the LA7 than any other plane, although I have just about as many kills of a Pony D as the L-Gay-7 :D
And I fly a 190A8.
Instead of whining about perking the LA7, take advantage of the target rich environment. :)
It ain't the game that needs changing, it's you attitude. ;)
Instead of perkin' them, kill them all,
And let God sort it out :rofl
Anyways, it's an old rehashing of an old thread.
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This month the LA7 has been a consistant perfomer as my favorite target plane
Well duh, all the dolts are flying them.
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Oh..does this mean I should no longer feed them to my P47 as a warm up snack. I'm sorry should I be giving LA7's a special pass and salute, then leave them alone?:)
I'm sooo confused. Will you guys get together on this. Is the LA7 the Evil Uber Russian Crotch Biter, or is it a kibbel snack for P47's????????????????????:rolleyes:
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People have more kills on the LA-7 than most other planes for a reason. There's *ALOT* of them to shoot at. Probably more of them than any other fighter in the game when ENY isn't shutting it down.
Since the MA is pretty far divorced from realistic WW2 fighting (as it should be imho, save history for the CT) the fights are always going to be on the deck where the lala shines. If you set a hard deck, and stick to it, lala's aren't a problem. The WEP advantage disappears @ 10k. Rope them with a superior climbing plane, get them up high, and beat them senseless. I fly -G10s cuz I was tired of getting run down by LA7's. Now I get a free advantage anytime they try to climb with me... and they try it alot.
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Well duh, all the dolts are flying them.
Heh :)
While not all LA7 pilots are dolts, it does seem to attract a lot of bunny pilots. :D
In the hands of a good pilot, the LA7 is a plane to be feared. In the hands of a bunny pilot, it is a target. But that can pretty much be said of any plane. I think a lot of inexperienced pilots pick it because of it's brutal acceleration and speed on the deck lets them get out of situations caused by bad SA.
Last month I shot down 15 LA7s, and lost one plane to an LA7. And I remember that one as I let him HO me.
There is no reason to perk the LA7 IMHO :)
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
You didn't finish this paragraph. ;) Please continue...
I thought the thought was complete, but I can expand it out a little if you like here.
Let's say I'm trailing 2k behind an la7 and deciede to break off. I'll do a high yo-yo (more efficient then a flat turn) and immediately look back to confirm that the dweeb la7 has turned around to try and fight me again. At this point I'll usually start an early split-s or low yo-yo to get verticle seperation, and immel right up behind him as he trys to figure out how to HO a lower plane. Now I'm higher then him and directly behind him and he is running, again, and I try to shoot off his tail as he pulls away, again. If he is really intent on running, and I'm really bad at shooting, I just keep repeating this until he gives up or runs out of gas. Usually once they see they can't HO you they either keep running or make some really bad turns and die quick.
-pellik
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Leave the La-7 alone.
Ask not for whom the perks toll; they toll for thee.
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I think the La-7 is flown so much that it deserves to be perked.
The ENY on p-51d is down to 5 for that reason.
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Having just spent a couple of days flying the thing....
1st....WOW....sweet bird
2nd say the same thing about the Ki-61:)
Posted this elsewhere...lala #'s from sometime yesterday...
Out of curiosity I pulled up the lala stats....
14-16 vs the Ki-61
1-5 vs the P40-b
13-15 vs the P40-e
150-139 vs the tiffie
59-62 vs 190-A5
39-51 vs F4U-1
1-6 vs C202
18-21 vs 109-G2
Basically these are all primarily "uber pilot" rides....the plane might not beperked but the pilot should be (least some of em).
So while the lala can dominate the better planes it isnt gonna scramble to many eggs amongst the better pilots...
Ack Acks right....
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That is only because most La-7s that are encountered do not have good pilots. If the La-7 is piloted by a good stick it is nearly unbeatable.
The stats you posted only go to show that better pilots fly the weaker kites. The very same argument would be true of free Tempests, Spitfire Mk XIVs, F4U-4s and Me262s.
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Originally posted by Karnak
That's BS. Every time I've done so they simply dive for the deck when it gets rough. It doesn't work.
So would a 51, 190, 109, F4U, etc depending on what plane you are in.
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Originally posted by Karnak
That is only because most La-7s that are encountered do not have good pilots. If the La-7 is piloted by a good stick it is nearly unbeatable.
The stats you posted only go to show that better pilots fly the weaker kites. The very same argument would be true of free Tempests, Spitfire Mk XIVs, F4U-4s and Me262s.
Personally I dont think any plane needs to be perked...
As for your arguement...lala pilot quality is no different than Pony/spitty/dora pilot quality. Additionally the lala has very limited visability and ballistics compared to the pony or spitty. It also is out performed up high by the pony and dora.
Most good pilots really dont care what you fly....I'll kill the "average" lala driver or spit V driver in my Ki just as easily as in a lala...
And the guys that own me...well they kill me in what ever I'm flying as well. Those of you who are "plane dependent" will always worry about what the other guy is in...the rest of just worry about WHO the other guy is:D
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Originally posted by humble
the rest of just worry about WHO the other guy is:D
:aok
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Those of you who are "plane dependent" will always worry about what the other guy is in...the rest of just worry about WHO the other guy is
Absolute genious !!!
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I only worry if they are in front of me or behind.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Those of you who are "plane dependent" will always worry about what the other guy is in...the rest of just worry about WHO the other guy is
Absolute genious !!!
Oh my god ma!....I made the big time::D
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humble,
It appears to have escaped your notice that the La-7 has a higher K/D ratio than the P-51D and Spit V (I don't know about the Fw190D-9), which is odd because according to you the plane makes no difference and the same skill level players use all three of those. Care to explain that little discrepency?
Or would you rather talk about how much better you are than those irritated by the La-7?
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i'm sorry for pumping up the la7 k/d... i mean i'm only doing my part to help get it perked.
:D
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Originally posted by Karnak
humble,
It appears to have escaped your notice that the La-7 has a higher K/D ratio than the P-51D and Spit V (I don't know about the Fw190D-9), which is odd because according to you the plane makes no difference and the same skill level players use all three of those. Care to explain that little discrepency?
Or would you rather talk about how much better you are than those irritated by the La-7?
1st...
I'm not all that good, I get my prettythang handed to me all the time (and whine with the best of em:D )
Now, looking at the current #'s the lala is 1.29/1 and the Ki-61 is 1.29/1 (the Ki is 1.288? and the lala is 1.290?)...but basically the same...
so both planes are equal??
The 109 G-2 (sweet bird btw) is 1.45/1...so its an even better plane?
Let me put in in perspective...shane just posted on this thread.
Now he's a little snot nosed noob...but he simply owns my prettythang...he knows it and I know it. He could care less what plane I'm in or how much E or alt I have...all he cares is that me or someone else is there so he doesnt need to go find a fight.
Now back in a land far far away I used to take an even more snot nosed kid named Oopsey out the the woodshed and listen to him howl (he whines with the best of em too:D )....
Thats why you'll never hear me bad mouth the pup...he earned his place in the food chain...and he helps almost anyone who bothers to listen. So you can either keep on keeping on and continue to suffer like you are....or you can raise your level of awareness and have an epifany....the plane doesnt kill ya...the pilot does.:aok
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humble,
To argue that different tools do not change the ease or difficulty of the task is sheer idiocy and that is what your continued chant of "the plane doesnt kill ya...the pilot does." seems to indicate you think.
Nowhere have I ever claimed that I don't think the pilot matters because I have always thought that in all cases other than the most extreme examples the pilot matters more than the machine. That said, the machine most certainly makes a difference.
The question is how much of a difference does a particular machine make and I'd argue that the La-7 makes a huge difference.
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La-7 shouldn't be perked. I don't have problem to kill it in my frank.
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The question is how much of a difference does a particular machine make and I'd argue that the La-7 makes a huge difference
And thats exactly where the problem is....
The question of pilot or plane is a binary, the caliber of the pilot overrides the capabilities of the plane. Only when relative pilot skill is within a very narrow parameter (lets say 10%) does the plane type matter. Now in a large enviornment like the MA where you have multiple encounters and multiple cons then an individual planes capabilities come into play. The lala will give a much greater range of options than the Ki-61 will in a complex enviornment...management of that enviornment (SA) is more critical in the "lesser" plane. However in a 1 vs 1 encounter no single has greater impact then pilot skill.
I'm simply tring to give you the same basic information I gave any baby seal as a trainer long ago... You pick your plane, tell me mine grab 5k and come kill me...in fact I wont even break till your inside of ~900 on my view...an hour and a dozen or two shot up planes and they were ready to begin to learn what the game is all about.
I wish you nothing but the best, both in the game and life in general. In both the person who empowers themselfs prevails.
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To argue that different tools do not change the ease or difficulty of the task is sheer idiocy and that is what your continued chant of "the plane doesnt kill ya...the pilot does." seems to indicate you think
I don't "think it" I know it for a fact....
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If you think killing in the MA is just as easy with a Hurri I as it is with an La-7 you're in denial of basic reality.
That is absolutely blindingly obvious.
However that is not the same as saying that the Hurri I cannot kill the La-7 as it obviously can.
If you really think that all planes are equal you're nuts. If that were the case, why waste all that effort on building newer and better fighters?
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There's no need to perk the La7. The majority that fly it are the new pilots that choose it only becuase its fast and they think that will survive them. Those pilots are no threat 2 vs 1 or 1 vs 1 because they only know how to fly in straight lines. Its that 10% that know what their doing you have to be aware of. Having played AH a long time if flying into a furball/horde I usually go after the La7 1st knowing it will be an easier quick kill than that guy in the turn n burn early war fightr.
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LA7 should not be perked - HOWEVER the 3 gun loadout should be (It was very rare!) Although the La-7 was initially designed with the three-cannon arrangement, only about 368 were delivered in this configuration, compared with more than 3000 two-cannon La-7's delivered.
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I really do think it is amusing. Here are my break-downs of what your average pilot thinks about the "plane-pilot" equation, along with my personal perspective on why I think that.
Newb pilot - All plane. Reason being said newb ups, gets his bellybutton handed to em 4 or 5 times, then switches to whatever plane has been handing him his ass, expecting it to make a difference.
Borderline Newb - Has realized that pilot plays some role in the equation, because the same guys always seem to hand him his bellybutton even if they are in the same plane. So probably 50-50 pilot plane.
Average pilot - Can kill baby seals in whatever plane he wants to, therefore leading him to think that the pilot is more important than the plane. Call it 75-25.
Good pilot - Can usually kill average pilots in whatever plane, usually loses to "great" pilots in whatever plane. Call it about 90-10.
"Great" pilot - Has found a plane that he is very comfortable flying, can usually kill anyone, unless they run into co-skilled pilot in ... a better plane. Call it back to about 50-50.
Honest pilot.. (me) call it 10-90 plane/pilot. Now matter how "great" you are, you can't make a plane do something it can't do.
Most of the self-proclaimed "great" pilots fly extraordinarily fast planes (1945, as a general rule), and tend to run at the first sign of trouble.
Karnak, you've got it right in my opinion. Anyone who can't see what a complete and total performance advantage the La-7 gives even the most pathetic newb of a seal pup target is blind, or deluded.
By the way Humble... if I took you up on your offer.. I'd take the La-7 and kill you in anything if I had a 5k alt advantage to start.
It is the plane, not the pilot.
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Honest pilot.. (me) call it 10-90 plane/pilot. Now matter how "great" you are, you can't make a plane do something it can't do
Sorry you give yourself so little credit, imagine if every german pilot felt like you did in late 44...
As for you me and the lala....I'm pretty easy to find. I get bounced alot by all kinds of stuff and I cant think of more than a few times a tour where I felt the plane made the difference....and normally its a high zeke or hurricane...never a lala...I dont care if you have 2k 10k or 15k...none of it matters till ya get ~400 out on my 6 and stay there. If we're close enough in skill to be in that "draw" range then the plane comes into play. Now if you want to prove your theory...go ask shane in his D11/Drex in his F6 or Levi in
his spit V.
I'd say I lose about ~15% of my 1 vs 1's in the MA....almost never the plane...almost always the pilot.
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Oh, I don't give myself so little credit, I'm just honest. If I'm in a 190A-8 and fighting an La-7 and the guy basically knows what his plane can do and my plane can do, I'm going to die. It doesn't matter how well I fly the 190A-8, I'm not going to kill someone who knows how to fly an La-7.
You are just still in the stage where you are giving yourself to much credit :).
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Originally posted by Urchin
It is the plane, not the pilot.
My last tour
Typhoon 13 LA7 0
N1K2 4 LA7 0
Hurricane IIC 5 LA7 2
I would have more examples but I have this bad habit of upping from capped fields.
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Congratulations. The Tiff is about 5 mph slower than the La7, turns about as well, and has Hizookas. The Niki is quite capable of going to a draw with the La7, as it turns better and climbs almost as well, and the Hurri C also turns better and mounts Hizookas..
Besides which, the plane/pilot aren't the only two parts of the equation... there is also numbers. If you tend to fly in situations where there are always more friendlies than enemies, most every plane is good enough to kill in. Even I could probably kill an La7 in a 190A8 if it was busy fighting 3 other planes when I dove in.
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Originally posted by dedalos
My last tour
Typhoon 13 LA7 0
N1K2 4 LA7 0
Hurricane IIC 5 LA7 2
I would have more examples but I have this bad habit of upping from capped fields.
And none of that means anything.
You guys just don't get that your personal stats against the La-7 don't have any reflection on the relative qualities of the aircraft in question.
I'm pretty sure I have an overall positive K/D ratio over the La-7 while flying the Mosquito in AH. Is this, then, evidence that the Mosquito is a better fighter than the La-7?
Of course not. It simply means that I was able to kill more La-7s than were able to kill me. It says nothing about how those kills were obtained. The fact is that, barring HOs, I only won a total of four fights against co-E or better La-7s while flying the Mosquito. All my other kills were fained by using altitude or hitting distracted La-7s.
I sure as heck know that my lethality changes based on what I am flying.
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You are just still in the stage where you are giving yourself to much credit
Actually I give myself exactly the credit I deserve....
I passed the stage your at a long time ago...
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Originally posted by Karnak
And none of that means anything.
You guys just don't get that your personal stats against the La-7 don't have any reflection on the relative qualities of the aircraft in question.
I'm pretty sure I have an overall positive K/D ratio over the La-7 while flying the Mosquito in AH. Is this, then, evidence that the Mosquito is a better fighter than the La-7?
Of course not. It simply means that I was able to kill more La-7s than were able to kill me. It says nothing about how those kills were obtained. The fact is that, barring HOs, I only won a total of four fights against co-E or better La-7s while flying the Mosquito. All my other kills were fained by using altitude or hitting distracted La-7s.
I sure as heck know that my lethality changes based on what I am flying.
Hmmm,
Thats why I took the trouble to post a few clips...
Why dont you go back and look at the either the la-7 or nikki clip and tell me what "advantage" I had.....
All I can tell you two is your attitude goes along way toward determining your outcome and both of you are toast before your wheels up from the runway....
http://www.azhacker.com/images/Ki61vsla7.ahf
http://www.azhacker.com/images/Ki61.nikki.rev.ahf
*links added at edit
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Originally posted by Urchin
Congratulations. The Tiff is about 5 mph slower than the La7, turns about as well, and has Hizookas. The Niki is quite capable of going to a draw with the La7, as it turns better and climbs almost as well, and the Hurri C also turns better and mounts Hizookas..
Besides which, the plane/pilot aren't the only two parts of the equation... there is also numbers. If you tend to fly in situations where there are always more friendlies than enemies, most every plane is good enough to kill in. Even I could probably kill an La7 in a 190A8 if it was busy fighting 3 other planes when I dove in.
So if I give you 5K and you take the tiffie and I grab a lala then the tiffies a better plane if you win?? or are you a better pilot?
The guy gives you a valid set of numbers and you immediately come up with excuses....
So the Tiffie, Nikki and Hurricane are all matches for the Lala...what other planes should we exclude from comparison?
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I remember the La-7 clip well enough. You had a massive E advantage, which is not surprising given you were flying an La-7 against a Spitfire.
You also continue to make the annoying assumption that we're looking at a binary choice, either the plane or the pilot. It is not one or the other, it is both. The capability of the aircraft acts as a multiplier of the pilot's skill with that aircraft.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I remember the La-7 clip well enough. You had a massive E advantage, which is not surprising given you were flying an La-7 against a Spitfire.
You also continue to make the annoying assumption that we're looking at a binary choice, either the plane or the pilot. It is not one or the other, it is both. The capability of the aircraft acts as a multiplier of the pilot's skill with that aircraft.
This is the problem....
You really dont bother to listen...or look at all. So before I make oyu look like more of an idiot how bout looking at the friggin clips...
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Well, you see, I'm at work. I can't look at the clips.
However what I do know, and you won't admit, is that, for example, an La-7 at 300mph and a Spitfire at 300mph are not co-E. The La-7 has more energy in that position. Further, if the Spitfire does have the E it is far easier for the La-7 to equalize the E than it is for the Spitfire if the reverse is true.
You persist in demanding that the aircraft makes absolutely no difference at all. None, nada, zilch.
Therefore, by your reconing, a D3A1 should have just as much a chance of killing an La-7 as a Spitfire Mk XIV does and that is plainly an idiotic claim.
It matters not at all if you have done it, or have a film of you doing it. That is utterly meaningless. Yet you persist in demanding that it is proof that the aircraft makes absolutley no difference at all.
The sheer idiocy of that argument and standpoint is very difficult to comprehend, let alone have a rational argument about it. You are doggedly holding to an demostrably untendable argument.
Let me put it thus, if we were to meet and do 10 fights, Spitfire Mk I vs La-7, switching off aircraft, do you think you would win all 10 fights being, theoretically, the better pilot? You claim that you would. My claim is that the person piloting the La-7 will win usually. And you call me an idiot?
Yeesh.
You really need to lose some of your overweening pride, humble.
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Originally posted by humble
So if I give you 5K and you take the tiffie and I grab a lala then the tiffies a better plane if you win?? or are you a better pilot?
The guy gives you a valid set of numbers and you immediately come up with excuses....
So the Tiffie, Nikki and Hurricane are all matches for the Lala...what other planes should we exclude from comparison?
No, the La7 is a superior plane to the Tiffie, as well as the Niki, Hurricane, and every other fighter we've got. However, the Tiffie is close enough that if you took the La7 and I took a Tiffie with a 5k initial alt advantage, I could probably kill you. At the very least, you wouldn't kill me, unless I screwed up drastically. Conversely, if you had a 5k alt advantage on me you shoud be able to win that fight. If we met Co-E, you should be able to win that fight.
I guess to use the vocabulary of Shaw, the La7 is "double superior" to the LW planes (by a fairly large margin). It is not "double superior" to the Niki or Hurricane (both are better angles fighters), and it is marginally superior to the Typhoon. In my opinion, the Typhoon is a better match for the La7 than the 109/190, simply because it can turn with an La7 and the LW stuff can't. I'm definately no expert on the AH2 Tiffie, but I know in AH1 they turned pretty well, so I'm reluctant to say that the La7 is "double superior" to it.
The numbers are meaningless to me because I've got no idea what context they are in. I'm relatively unimpressed with someone who usually fights at a 4 to 1 advantage that can show he is 1006 to 3 against XXX plane. I guess I'll dust off the joystick and look for you in the MA, unless you are averse to meeting in the DA. I'll show you what I'm talking about there.
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1st....
I'm not "adverse" to anything...just give me a holler if you see me up. This isnt a you vs me thing, from your perspective I dont count. All that matters is the plane I'm in.
Now I agree with you to a point on the lala vs luftwabble hardware. However, the G-6 has the handling and acceleration to be a tough fight. The G-2 can angle fight the lala very well and has enough acceleration to make seperation tough. The D-9 owns the lala over 12k or so and the G-10 in good hands is still possibly the toughest nut to crack in ther game. As for the Tiffie, it's a soso match up...it wont turn or climb with the lala and once the lala slows the tiffie down it'll never accelerate with the lala.
I would take any of the hardware above vs a lala (or a tiffie for that matter)
As for the nikki & hurricane now we're back to the original question....yes the lala will control the fight...but to kill the nikki (or hurricane) he either takes B&Z shots or fights an E fight...then he faces both vertical rev to a face shot and the need to manage his overshoots...certainly not an overwhelmong task...but also not automatic vs a good pilot...put drex in an F6 or levi in a spit V or shane in a P47-11 and the lala will have his bellybutton handed to him 80%+ of the time...as for me well...I dont care what your in or how much alt you have....still comes down to the pilot.
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No, I'm trying to illustrate a point. However, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, since our positions are basically irreconsilable.
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Originally posted by Urchin
No, I'm trying to illustrate a point. However, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, since our positions are basically irreconsilable.
I'm not sure that they are...reading thru your comments I can translate it to the following....if I fly the "correct" fight (in my 190) and you (in the la-7) fly the "correct" fight then the LA-7 the "double superior" plane will win everytime....
I agree completely....
However,
I believe that "perfect" fight is an almost impossible thing to find...mistakes (often subtle) are made on both sides. Personally I think 90%+ are decided by the pilots actions or inactions. I actually posted this clip elsewhere...it's literally the last hop I took. The "meat" of it is a fun little tussle with a well flown spitty...like normal at some point in every hop I have a "superior" plane on me....rev at 800...set up my shots...miss em both...he extends I bait him back....as we set up a 109 forces me off "my game" I dont realize hes going engine dead and have to break in to him...bad SA/decision loop and fish hoses me....
Still a fun fight....
Bottom line...I flew my fight got my shots and didnt convert...he was smart enough to extend and lit me up on "round 2" .... #@#%# about the 109...but not a bit about the plane he was in....
http://www.azhacker.com/images/film69.ahf
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It always gets overlooked, as people start forgetting this is a game. But the quality of a player's flight control equipment computer and internet connection is quite a large factor too, in extreme cases quite possibly more of a factor than anything else.
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Originally posted by Karnak
However what I do know, and you won't admit, is that, for example, an La-7 at 300mph and a Spitfire at 300mph are not co-E. The La-7 has more energy in that position.
Gotta admit I have trouble with that too............ at that point they are co e.............
We can then discuss what they do next and how one may retain e thru certain manouvers to its benefit...............
The La7 would like to stay above 250 and hold G (on average so to speak) below 3 to maintain its advantage in turn......
The Spit (IX?) may like to pull higher G's (initially) to gain guns and force the La7 to sacrifice e and its advantage at 250 plus.
Once below the 200/250 zone then the Spit has better e retention IMO in high G manouvers than the La7..............
by then the La7 should have used its straight line recovery and bugged out
This all assumes that both sides got their angles equally right which of course is very doubtful and makes it all very theoretical.
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Originally posted by humble
I believe that "perfect" fight is an almost impossible thing to find...mistakes (often subtle) are made on both sides. [/B]
Gotta agree with this..................
for me its really hard to get angles right.............I have decided that my 3d visualisation of stuff is just not that good.
I watch a film and say to my self....."why did I not take the obvious angle there".............."why am I in lag turn pursuit when the lead turn angle was obvious"
Those are the biggies and then there are the occassions when you can see where the other guy is going, you know he has to do x or y to maintain e or evade guns and I just get the angle (and the speed) plain wrong......too high, too low, too long, too short.
But then this is the skill factor..........the great equaliser.
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Tilt,
The best thing the Lala could do when meeting a Spit at 300mph and co-alt is to climb away. The Spit IX we have in AH is a farging joke. The Spit V is better, but still can't come close to climbing with an La-7.
You are right that in the very moment that they are both at 5000ft and 300mph they are co-E, but the moment the La-7 puts the throttle all the way forward that ceases to be true. And the more time that passes from that moment the greater the E difference in favor of the La-7 is. Unless, of course, the La-7 pilot is an idiot and tries to kill the Spit in hard, tight horizontal turns.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I really do think it is amusing. Here are my break-downs of what your average pilot thinks about the "plane-pilot" equation, along with my personal perspective on why I think that.
Newb pilot - All plane. Reason being said newb ups, gets his bellybutton handed to em 4 or 5 times, then switches to whatever plane has been handing him his ass, expecting it to make a difference.
Borderline Newb - Has realized that pilot plays some role in the equation, because the same guys always seem to hand him his bellybutton even if they are in the same plane. So probably 50-50 pilot plane.
Average pilot - Can kill baby seals in whatever plane he wants to, therefore leading him to think that the pilot is more important than the plane. Call it 75-25.
Good pilot - Can usually kill average pilots in whatever plane, usually loses to "great" pilots in whatever plane. Call it about 90-10.
"Great" pilot - Has found a plane that he is very comfortable flying, can usually kill anyone, unless they run into co-skilled pilot in ... a better plane. Call it back to about 50-50.
Honest pilot.. (me) call it 10-90 plane/pilot. Now matter how "great" you are, you can't make a plane do something it can't do.
Most of the self-proclaimed "great" pilots fly extraordinarily fast planes (1945, as a general rule), and tend to run at the first sign of trouble.
Karnak, you've got it right in my opinion. Anyone who can't see what a complete and total performance advantage the La-7 gives even the most pathetic newb of a seal pup target is blind, or deluded.
By the way Humble... if I took you up on your offer.. I'd take the La-7 and kill you in anything if I had a 5k alt advantage to start.
It is the plane, not the pilot.
There's a quote under ACK-ACK's name that seems relevent here. It was something like "Some pilots are good, some pilots are great, but the best of all flew the P-38."
The guys who run never learn to defend themselves, and their aspirations are limited.
-pellik
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My thoughts:
I agree that perking the 3 cannon La-7 is appropriate, something small but effective like the F4U-1C.
It's apparent that the recent addition of the Ki-84 has generally gone unnoticed in its effectiveness at dealing with the La-7.
Against all aircraft:
Ki-84 - 1.34/1
La-7 - 1.29/1
Against each other:
Ki-84 - 1.08/1
La-7 - 0.92/1
That's quite interesting, the mighty La-7 doesn't dominate the Hayate. And, that's in spite of being nearly 50 mph faster on the deck.
We can discount the newbie argument, because there's plenty of newbies flying the Hayate.
It boils down to the Ki-84 having more strengths and less weaknesses than the La-7, especially when you know how to set up the Ki-84 for maximum performance.
Fly with 50% fuel max... Need more range, take drop tanks. Use manual trim. In manual trim the Hayate pilot is not fighting his own elevators at high speeds. At 50% fuel, the Ki-84 has similar range to the La-7 with full bags. Climb rate is virtually the same under these conditions. Roll rate goes to the Hayate, especially at medium to high speeds where it excels. Turning ability is no contest, The La-7 is badly outclassed. Scissoring with the Ki-84 is certain death. Should the La-7 pilot find himself with the Ki-84 above him or Co-E, he can always bunt over and try to dive clear. Well, the Hayate can dive too, and if its under manual trim, it can turn just as well as the Lavochkin at high speeds. Plus, if the La-7 driver isn't careful, he will have serious problems with control stiffening. In all probability, if the La-7 doesn't auger, he will be able to get out of gun range... And he better keep on running too if the Ki-84 doesn't take the bait and remains above him. If the La-7 wishes to reverse and engage, he'll have to climb. Climbing will make him slow and getting slow around the Ki-84 means getting dead.
Rope-a-dope; I've had a few La-7s try this. They died. Trying to rope a Hayate with decent E is not a good idea. If you guys think the Niki is the premier UFO, you haven't seen the Ki-84 fight in the vertical. We have compared the Niki and Hayate head-to-head and the Hayate is superior in every category of performance. Should you think that trying to rope the Hayate is a good idea, consider this: Long after the La-7 has stalled and tumbled out of its climb, the Ki-84 is still climbing with complete control in every flight axis, right down to 50 mph. Indeed, the Ki-84 is the king of the spiral climb. You can take off, and right from the runway, pull into a climbing spiral. Averaging almost 4k per minute, you can spiral up to 12k, and never go outside of the base perimeter!
So, the La-7 has but two advantages over the Hayate. Those are pure speed and level acceleration. It needs those advantages to survive, because it is equalled or inferior in every other measure of performance. The standard La-7 practice of taking the fight into the vertical doesn't work against the Ki-84. Suddenly, the Lavochkin pilot must learn use similar tactics that P-51 pilots must use against the Spit IX; stay fast, don't climb steeply and never turn hard. And those are survival tactics, not fight winning tactics.
In my opinion, the addition of the Ki-84 has significantly changed the dynamics of the MA, and changed it for the better.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Ki-84 - 1.34/1
La-7 - 1.29/1
La7 K/D ratios are nonsense, those are the most vulched rides.
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Conclusion (consice)...
La-7 will not be PERKED unless HTC fills their all mid/early planeset.
If HTC completes their early/mid war planeset, it is possible to perk all late war (fighters/bombers/tanks) rides. This will create a 1942-43 atmosphere and collect enough pts to fly late war planes.
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Originally posted by MANDO
La7 K/D ratios are nonsense, those are the most vulched rides.
Balderdash. The Spitfire is THE most vulched ride by a large margin.
My regards,
Widewing
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What's so complex about this?
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A newbie with a 3 hour flight time is in a La-7. A flashy vet is in a Zeke. After a few lobs and passes the La-7 gets scared and runs away.
So what really happened here?
* A super-duper ace, couldn't shoot down a 3-hour old neophyte.
Verdict: The plane is mightier than the pilot. Case solved.
-----------------------------------------------
Why do you think we have so much angry and vocal 'vets' in channel 200?
Aren't those guys all angry because they couldn't shoot down some guy whom he thought sucked, because they couldn't catch him?
Woops, they couldn't catch a fast plane in their slow plane huh..?
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To go back to the La-7, I checked my stats going back two years and found that I have over 900 kills in Lavochkins (about 65% in the La-5FN) against about 60 losses to all causes. That's a K/D of right around 15/1.
These are very capable airplanes. Fly them to their strengths and they are very difficult to beat.
Then again, over that same time period flying the F6F-5, I have 485 kills for 27 losses from all causes, or 18/1.
Therefore, if you hold to the plane being the primary factor then you must conclude that the Hellcat is a better fighter than the Lavochkins. Of course, we know that isn't the case.
What the Hellcat offers is ruggedness and maneuverability. While the Lavochkins carry cannons, the Hellcat's six .50s are mounted on one of the best gun platforms in the game with a generous supply of ammo and a very strong ordnance load. Overall, the F6F-s is a more useful aircraft that can hold its own with late-war fighters if need be. It generally gets a great many more ground kills than the Lavochkins too.
So, it's clearly a combination of aircraft and pilot, and I'll state that less dominating aircraft demand greater skills to excel in the MA. Too often skill is defined by pure air-to-air skill. Skills include knowing how to get the advantage and keep it. Skills include the SA required to avoid getting ganged by a horde. Skills include managing your fuel and ordnance. Skills include knowing when the advantage is swinging towards the enemy and what to do about that. Skills include managing your speed and altitude. Skills include knowing where your aircraft is strong and fighting to that strength. Skills include knowing how force the enemy to fight to their aircraft's weaknesses.
I'm of the opinion that 80% of this game is the pilot and all he brings to the table, 20% being the strengths of the aircraft.
My regards,
Widewing
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Perk IT. I dont buy the only new pilots fly it as I have seen very experienced pilots in it.
IT outperforms almost everything at less than 10k. Just make it like 10 like the CHOG
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Just face it... La-7 will not be perked in the meantime unless HTC does something drastic like perkieng the late war stuff (like P-51B/D, P-47D-25/40, P-38L, F4U1-D, 109G-10, Fw-190A-8/D-9,Nik, Ki-84, and Yak-9U,
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Oh, the La will never be perked, you can take that to the bank.
Hell, the only reason I don't like it is because the vast majority of the women that fly it fly it like... well, a woman.
Of course.... Pee-fiftyruns, Doruns, run09s... all of em are almost as fun to "fight" as clipping your toenails.
Been flying the Ki-84 most of this tour (just about exculsively, actually)..
The results should give some indication of what kind of MA we have.
Plane ----- Kills of/Killed By
Seafire --- 19/3
Spit 5 --- 12/5
Spit 9 --- 11/4
P-38 --- 10/1
F6F --- 10/0
Those are the "most killed"... most deaths are F4U-1 /w 3, ack /w 3, runstang /w 3, and the spits.
Kills of La7? 2. Killed by La7? 2?
You think I've seen 4 La-7s all month? You can't turn a 360 circle without seeing 15 of them in a crowd.
They exemplify the pussified AH we've all come to enjoy, typically I get killed by something else in the gangbangs which are the only "fights" you'll see most el gays, pee-fiftyruns, and run09/90s zooming through looking for cherrypicks.
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Originally posted by Urchin
You think I've seen 4 La-7s all month? You can't turn a 360 circle without seeing 15 of them in a crowd.
They exemplify the pussified AH we've all come to enjoy, typically I get killed by something else in the gangbangs which are the only "fights" you'll see most el gays, pee-fiftyruns, and run09/90s zooming through looking for cherrypicks.
LOLOLOL
Yeah, I see lots of La-7s buzzing around like bees with their hive on fire. Most run like hell at the first sign of a real fight. It seems to me that when used offensively, most La-7s will go for a vulch run, extend a few miles, reverse and try it again. I'm usually waiting for them and jump them on their second run. However, these guys apparently don't care as long as they can get one on the vulch. So, you kill 'em and they're back up again 30 seconds later to do it again. Ditto for the Dora. I haven't found one willing to tangle with the Ki-84, although I have managed to trap several due to their lack of SA.
This tour I've lost four Ki-84s. However, most of those were oddball losses. I was hit by bombs in mid air dropped by a formation of B-24s. I was hit on the runway by bombs dropped from 30k B-17s that missed the hangers. I collided with a TBM that pitched up when I shot its tail off at maybe 50 yards out. My only "real" loss came when I rolled into a horde of Bish carrier fighters to get them off a fellow Rook. I killed a Seafire, two F6Fs and two F4Us before I was was damaged by a 5 inch shell or autoack and then HO'd by a Seafire while maneuvering missing a flap and aileron. I should have had another Seafire and a Zero that I set ablaze, but my Hayate blew up before those wrecks hit the water. Well, they died anyway. Those kind of fights are tough to survive, I was so close to the CV that the 5 inch gunners were shooting at me and smaller caliber tracers were usually zipping by. When you shoot one down, he's back in the fight inside of 60 seconds. Just when I thought I had some space, here come three or four more. My guns were just about empty when I got hit. But it was fun!
As is typical, the Mustang I saved ran away and didn't return to help. But, that wasn't a surprise. A large bunch of Rooks were coming, but they arrived seconds too late to help. I heard them over vox, "hang on Wide, we're coming!" I re-upped immediately in another Ki-84 and headed out to the CV. When I got there, most of the 15+ fighters were dead, as was the CV. I had to settle for killing a damaged F4U (assist) and a PT.
Mitsu, by the way, is 29/5 against the La-7 while flying the Ki-84. I'm willing to bet that those 5 losses were due to being cherry picked while fighting others. He's also 61/5 against all models of the Spitfire. That's mighty good.
So far, my paltry air to air kills and losses with the Ki-84 are:
La-7: 5/0
F6F-5: 3/0
F4U-1D: 4/0
La-5FN: 2/0
Fw 190D: 5/0
P-51D: 4/0
P-38L: 2/0
Lancaster: 2/0
B-24J: 6/0
Yak-9U: 1/0
N1K2-J: 1/0
Spitfire IX: 1/0
Seafire: 1/1
I've only logged about 13 hours in the MA, and my nephew has logged about the same using my account... He has maybe 12 kills, (most cherry picking in a P-51D) but flew over 30 sorties. Gotta get him his own account.... :) That way he can kill as many tools sheds as he wants without porking my stats. He is archtype runner... Drop bombs and haul butt...
So, if anyone gets whacked by a cherry picking P-51 and the text says: "you were killed by Widewing", that's my nephew Chris. So feel free to call him a RunStang Dweeb, 'cause he is. I won't be flying the Mustang this tour...
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
It seems to me that when used offensively, most La-7s will go for a vulch run, extend a few miles, reverse and try it again.
Hey!!!
I know that La-7!!!
;)
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the LA7 is probably my least feared plane. It just plain sucks in a turn fight, It is easy to avoid when BnZ'ing and finally, they will try and HO you usually then go vertical and either run away or repeat the BnZ/HO attack. I never, ever have touble getting an LA7 off my 6. ever.
To my knoledge, the only two lala drivers who i have any trouble with are Shane (obviously. he has never killed me but on checking film viewer i have encountered, and not been able to shoot, him on a few occasions) and Spazzter (he flies nits so not a problem)
there are other great lala pilots out there, but quite frankly, if you cant out turn them, you should be able to avoid them. especially as the majority fly a FFT (full ****ing throttle) 99% of the time.
Dont perk the lala. its a great chew toy and score padder.
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Originally posted by mechanic
To my knoledge, the only two lala drivers who i have any trouble with are Shane (obviously. he has never killed me but on checking film viewer i have encountered, and not been able to shoot, him on a few occasions)
ahem... unsure of exact situation, tho'
current tour
shane has 2 kills on batfinkV
batfinkV has 0 kills on shane
La7 - 2 kills
P-51d - 1 death
SpitV - 1 death
:D
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I'm of the opinion that 80% of this game is the pilot and all he brings to the table, 20% being the strengths of the aircraft.
:aok
My only problem is when my 80% only covers about half of the other guys 80%:mad:
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Originally posted by mechanic
the LA7 is probably my least feared plane. It just plain sucks in a turn fight, It is easy to avoid when BnZ'ing and finally, they will try and HO you usually then go vertical and either run away or repeat the BnZ/HO attack. I never, ever have touble getting an LA7 off my 6. ever.
That's easy to say if the plane you're in is a spitfire. Not all planes have such a distinct advantage over the la7. I don't fear anything in a spitfire, in a mossie a semi-competent pilot in an la7 will usually mean my death.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
What's so complex about this?
-----------------------------------------------
A newbie with a 3 hour flight time is in a La-7. A flashy vet is in a Zeke. After a few lobs and passes the La-7 gets scared and runs away.
So what really happened here?
* A super-duper ace, couldn't shoot down a 3-hour old neophyte.
Verdict: The plane is mightier than the pilot. Case solved.
-----------------------------------------------
Why do you think we have so much angry and vocal 'vets' in channel 200?
Aren't those guys all angry because they couldn't shoot down some guy whom he thought sucked, because they couldn't catch him?
Woops, they couldn't catch a fast plane in their slow plane huh..?
The reverse can also be said. A newbie in a far superior plane couldn't shoot down a vet in a slower, inferior plane. Verdict: It's the pilot not the plane.
While the plane does facter in the equation, the bottom line is still the pilot. It takes the pilot to be able to take advantage of the strengths of his plane and exploit them to the fullest. In a situation with the planes the same and the pilots of the same skill level, the one that makes the first mistake usually loses.
ack-ack
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When I first started flying here, I seen a comment in the radio buffer that stuck with me. "The La7 here sticks out like a cartoon character in a movie. It doesnt belong." I dont think I appriciated the comment until I happened upon a lala on the deck as I was rtbing. I gradually dove off about 4k of alt down to the deck toward him. He saw me, did a 180, and of course went for the HO. After the merge he did another 180, after completing that he accelerated within gun range in 12 seconds on me who had just continued going straight. Two 180s and run down a fast plane going straight in 12 seconds? No, no performance issue there. Then people complain about how timid some get with their E managment. With a model running all over the arean that neuters E managment in most of the planeset...I wonder.
Ask the average person to name some wwii planes. I doubt few, if any ever even heard of the La-7. Compair that to its usage and impact on the MA. IMO there is ample reason for a light perk to be on it. Its a dead horse issue though, HT has made his position clear. It aint gonna happen.
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Should perk p38s flying above 15k. Flying above 15k automatic removes 1 perk point from counter, above 20k second one.
P38 is just to deadly up there.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Ask the average person to name some wwii planes. I doubt few, if any ever even heard of the La-7.
Which "average" person would that be?
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why the one who hadn't heard of an la-7
:D
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Originally posted by Murdr
When I first started flying here, I seen a comment in the radio buffer that stuck with me. "The La7 here sticks out like a cartoon character in a movie. It doesnt belong." I dont think I appriciated the comment until I happened upon a lala on the deck as I was rtbing. I gradually dove off about 4k of alt down to the deck toward him. He saw me, did a 180, and of course went for the HO. After the merge he did another 180, after completing that he accelerated within gun range in 12 seconds on me who had just continued going straight. Two 180s and run down a fast plane going straight in 12 seconds? No, no performance issue there. Then people complain about how timid some get with their E managment. With a model running all over the arena that neuters E managment in most of the planeset...I wonder.
Nah, There Is No Performance Issue There........thank goodness :D
now if he had caught you in 11 seconds I would start to wonder LOL
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Originally posted by Shane
why the one who hadn't heard of an la-7
:D
:)
I ask my neighbour to name a fighter plane that fought in the 2nd world war............. he says Spitfire and Hurricane.........
I ask my neighbour to name a German one......... he says Messerschmit.
For all other nations he draws a total blank............
He is a pretty average kinda guy............ actually he is a pretty average British kinda guy he does not know of a P51 or an La7.
Infact he is a pretty average Western European he knows nothing of a Pacific war beyond the odd movie.
Further he is a pretty average "Western" kinda guy........ he has no concept of the war between Germany and Russia or its massive and overwhelming significance to the final out come in Europe.
The idea that our ignorance should decide stuff is just........... well..................ignoran t IMO
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The reverse can also be said. A newbie in a far superior plane couldn't shoot down a vet in a slower, inferior plane. Verdict: It's the pilot not the plane.
No, the verdict would be "it's the pilot not the plane", if the superior pilot shot down the neophyte.
In this case, which is the usual case, which is why the vets get mad and angry in the MA in the first place, is the neophyte managed a statistical "stalemtate" and ran away in safety despite all his suckage, who by all means probably would have been shot down if he ever engaged more than 30 seconds.
The fact that the newbie pilot survived in the first place proves the "plane > pilot" theory. And the fact that ch.200 rants are endless, is another very big supporting fact to that theory.
Basically, vets aren't getting enough kills, as opposed to the total number of planes they meet and engage in the MA.
They could get a lot of kills if he just gave up on the K/D and started fighting like a n00b, engaging every duel to the death, except the vets don't want to be snuffed out like a candle in the midst of a horde - they wanna survive, live long, and still get many kills and land in safety - which they can't do in AH2 (due to various changes in the game, the largest being the gunnery).
Since they can't catch the average guys in uber-rides who has some basic SA to at least know when to run away, all they can get is the greenest guys around who presents almost no stimulation in the fun of air combat.
It's like sex - people aren't getting enough of it :D, so they're all horny and bitter and jumpy and start ranting on ch200 the moment their foe runs away, and they realize they can't catch him. :D :D
Within common sense lies wisdom - people say the "timid flier" phenomenon is plaguing the MA, and people hate it. When you look into it, people can afford to be timid since its rarely likely they'd ever be caught and shot down while flying a P-51 or a D-9 or La-7, as long as they just know when to run away screaming. Ofcourse they're timid - the plane they fly are so fast that they don't need to learn any ACM.
In the end, the plane factor is material, physical, and solid in relative strenghts and weaknesses. The pilot factor is inherent in the human, which cannot be quantified, and varies upon situation.
The first rule of all fight/engagement/battle/war, is to secure a thorough material, physical superiority over the enemy. Same thing applies to air combat.
In the end, as long as you're in the fastest plane available, you'll at least manage a draw :) Even if someone else brings the same plane, if you have a head start he'll never catch you.
The only instances where the pilot has to actually have to try and use the "ACM" stuff is when somebody comes in in the same plane, with a big alt advantage so they can catch you.
Voila - the reason why people are timid is given.
In other words, the MA is being plagued by timid pilots, because the MA works that way and the newbie, sucky, lame, average, who-ever-is-not-an-ace pilots instinctively know that. In the MA, it's the plane, not the pilot.
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Originally posted by Shane
ahem... unsure of exact situation, tho'
current tour
shane has 2 kills on batfinkV
batfinkV has 0 kills on shane
La7 - 2 kills
P-51d - 1 death
SpitV - 1 death
:D
LMAO fair play, obviously happened so quick i didnt even register!
funny that the only time i have flown the mustang to my knoledge you killed me.
hehe
bat
EDIT: on checking it seems this tour is the only time you got me or we even encoutered each other. i didnt check to hard tho :)
EDIT2: oops looks like i died in a pony 4 times so i must have flown it more, i really need to stop whatever im taking, my memory is suffering :D
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Normally I stay out of the perk the LA7 threads. However, I really like the suggestion of perking the 3 gun LA7.
g00b
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I'm all for bringing back the Cold War.
1: TV was much better (so were the movies on the big screen).
2: We had alot more higher paying jobs with the defense industry working at 150% to stay ahead of the Russians.
3: Boroda would have to limit his political ramblings to fellow indoctrinees as they posted back pats back and forth on the ironcurtainet.
4: The war on drugs took a back seat.
So ... perk all the damned Ruski plane, I say. And keep track of who flies them.
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On dsl .... go figure. :D
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Well, folks, I am a new pilot here, joined a week ago. I read much about air to air combat in late ww2. La-7 was made to fly like germans did in their me. Climb high, look for a target, dive on it, if missed climb back and try again, if outnumbered - run like hell. And as the other guy said, most of LA-7 had only 2 cannons. It could perform very well only on vertical and was pretty much sucky in any horizontal fights. By the way, yak-9U was faster than La-7 in ww2 with cruising max speed about 700k/hour at 5000k, while La-7 max was around 630-650.
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HT should just perk everything but the hurri1, spit1, and val. If you need more power then that you should earn it. Then we wouldn't see dweebs in expensive planes like the la7 nearly so much. Of course the down side is the good pilots who can really accumulate perks will just be cruisin around in relatively untouchable planes. On the up side of that, though, you'll be able to spot the good ones real easy.
-pellik
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Originally posted by Arlo
I'm all for bringing back the Cold War.
1: TV was much better (so were the movies on the big screen).
2: We had alot more higher paying jobs with the defense industry working at 150% to stay ahead of the Russians.
3: Boroda would have to limit his political ramblings to fellow indoctrinees as they posted back pats back and forth on the ironcurtainet.
4: The war on drugs took a back seat.
So ... perk all the damned Ruski plane, I say. And keep track of who flies them.
Call in McCarthy!
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Ja! Yes! Oui! Hai! Si! Ne! Da! Tak!
I hope I've made myself clear.
MRPLUTO
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La7 is the ultra newb dweeb ride. There is no other non perk plane that matches it performance. The stats you guys give mean jack (*&# since a lotta newbs fly them along with some more experienced pilots.
1 0n 1 no matter what plane they are in...(non perk) less than 10k you get beat in an la7 you are a newb. That plane accelerates, turns, climbs, dives, and has the cannon to back it up. Most stats dont matter because you are talking of flying in MA where it is rare to find a 1 on 1. Therefore you can not determine the ability of a plane because it is usually outnumbered or part of a horde.
Karnak said it best with his mosquito example.
I wonder how many of these pro la7 people fly it all the time. Get a new ride dweebs.
Oh and by the way the A-8 does just fine against la7 just gotta Z and B till you kill him or make him auger trying to turn from your shots.
altitude is the #1 killer of lala's
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Originally posted by Raider179
I wonder how many of these pro la7 people fly it all the time. Get a new ride dweebs.
You should be less concerned with what other people fly and instead learn some things that will enable you to defeat an La7.
ack-ack
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It's usually pretty easy to beat unless Shane's behind the controls.
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ACK dont presume know what concerns me. I stated an opinion not a concern. But on that matter all why are you worried about what concerns me? Also what gives you the impression I cant defeat la7s? Just because people dont have lots of posts in the bbs doesnt mean they are new to the game. Believe it or not some fly for fun. Not to voice their concern over an overmodeled plane and then have some sort of internet bully come tell them to learn to fly better. LMAO
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Originally posted by Raider179
Also what gives you the impression I cant defeat la7s? Believe it or not some fly for fun. Not to voice their concern over an overmodeled plane and then have some sort of internet bully come tell them to learn to fly better. LMAO
overmodled plane.... fact or opinion? i don't know, i have neither the tech manuals, nor aerodynamic or computer programming expertise to state one way or another.
if you're raidr in-game (?) then, uh, well.....
http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/careerstats.php?player=raidr&sortby=killedby_sort
0.36 k/d against la7's
maybe akak has a valid observation?
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Here's a thought.
Hitech can COAD a poll function in the next patch. When you first log in it asks you if the LA7 should be perked, yes/no. If you say "no" you go on into the game, nothing happens. If you say "yes" you get a second window. Choose how many perks it should cost. 10, 25, 105, 1005. Then it lets you into the game. Next time you pick a LA7 from the hanger it will cost "you" whatever you chose from the cost window.
To remove it from your profile you will have to beat shane in the DA 6 for 6 times in a row in IL2's with Hitech watching in person. By about that time LA7's will be the least of your concerns.:)
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nope wrong raider
and its not overmodeled but it does need perking
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well, don't be shy then...
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I guess this is where we ask: "HiTech would you puleeese COAD a poll for the LA7,,oh puleso pulesso?":) I'm sure Raider179 Shane will help you with your IL2...................;)
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No, I vote to leave the La7 unperked. While it is a 1945 plane, it does have weaknesses which can be exploited. It is not uber.
It adds some variety to the MA! Its one of the main base defense planes and can usually be upped at a capped base. I view it as an 'instant action' plane.
Regards,
Malta
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Originally posted by Raider179
nope wrong raider
and its not overmodeled but it does need perking
WAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! LA7 IS SO UBER!!!! PERK IT SO I DON'T HAVE TO LEARN ANY SKILLZ!!!!!
ack-ack