Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JBA on October 26, 2004, 12:38:29 PM
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60 MINS PLANNED BUSH MISSING EXPLOSIVES STORY FOR ELECTION EVE
News of missing explosives in Iraq -- first reported in April 2003 -- was being resurrected for a 60 MINUTES election eve broadcast designed to knock the Bush administration into a crisis mode.
Jeff studmuffiner, executive producer of the Sunday edition of 60 MINUTES, said in a statement that "our plan was to run the story on October 31, but it became clear that it wouldn't hold..."
Elizabeth Jensen at the LOS ANGELES TIMES details on Tuesday how CBS NEWS and 60 MINUTES lost the story ...[which repackaged previously reported information on a large cache of explosives missing in Iraq, first published and broadcast in 2003].
The story instead debuted in the NYT. The paper slugged the story about missing explosives from April 2003 "exclusive."
An NBCNEWS crew embedded with troops moved in to secure the Al-Qaqaa weapons facility on April 10, 2003, one day after the liberation of Iraq.
According to NBCNEWS, the explosives were already missing when the American troops arrived. [VIDEO CLIP]
It is not clear who exactly shopped an election eve repackaging of the missing explosives story.
The LA TIMES claims: The source on the story first went to 60 MINUTES but also expressed interest in working with the NY TIMES... "The tip was received last Wednesday."
CBSNEWS' plan to unleash the story just 24 hours before election day had one senior Bush official outraged.
"Darn, I wanted to see the forged documents to show how this was somehow covered up," the Bush source, who asked not to be named, mocked, recalling last months CBS airing of fraudulent Bush national guard letters.
Developing
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RPM you and kerry have been PAWNED
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Originally posted by JBA
RPM you and kerry have been PAWNED
How much to get them out?
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that will be the end of the story, no apology or correction, just the hope the average joe is too dumb to figure out the dems tried to, and in many cases succeeded to fool him again...
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OK, where do I start? How about a source to begin with? I did a Google News search and it failed to return any results. Second, you slam CBS for running a story too fast without investigating it. Now, you slam CBS for not jumping on the story without investigating it. Which way do you want it?
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john heinz-kerry
On the trail Monday, Kerry called the incident "one of the great blunders" of the war.
"Terrorists could use this material to kill our troops, our people, blow up airplanes and level buildings," Kerry said. "The unbelievable blindness, stubbornness, arrogance of this administration to do the basics have now allowed this president to once again fail the test of being the commander in chief."
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will heinz-kerry apologize to the american people for his "blindness, stubbornness, arrogance" in calling this "one of the great blunders" of the war?
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Apparently there were no explosives back when the weapons inspectors spent a week in al Qaqaa back in Jan. '03.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/24/sprj.irq.inspections/index.html
MiG
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OK, where do I start? How about a source to begin with? I did a Google News search and it failed to return any results.
Here is a little proof of the truth (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.explosives/index.html)
dago
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Originally posted by rpm
OK, where do I start? How about a source to begin with? I did a Google News search and it failed to return any results. Second, you slam CBS for running a story too fast without investigating it. Now, you slam CBS for not jumping on the story without investigating it. Which way do you want it?
JBA seems to get it, you don't.:p
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rpm
I was speaking about skerry not his buds in the news orgs, I already know they are above reproach ....
this is another political M-80 which blew up in skerries face, too bad - he won't get another Purple Heart from the wound
LOL LOL LOL
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Thanks for the link Dago, but it was the wrong one. That report mentions NBC, not CBS. I bet this is a Drudge or NewsMax story or the link would already be posted.
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Originally posted by Munkii
How much to get them out?
ROFL.
-Sik
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rpm... how many times does cbs and the liberal media have to hit you on the head before you quit sticking your mug out to be clobbered? took ya a week to admit you were conned on the 60 minutes memo thing.
you have an extreme tolerance for embarssment.
lazs
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Originally posted by CMC Airboss
Apparently there were no explosives back when the weapons inspectors spent a week in al Qaqaa back in Jan. '03.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/24/sprj.irq.inspections/index.html
MiG
Where in the article you linked states that? I may need a new prescription for my glasses 'cause I couldn't find it.
Here's a link for you:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1098677410357
"At the Pentagon, an official who monitors developments in Iraq said US-led coalition troops had searched Al-Qaqaa in the immediate aftermath of the March 2003 invasion and confirmed that the explosives, which had been under IAEA seal since 1991, were intact. Thereafter the site was not secured by U.S. forces, the official said, also speaking on condition of anonymity."
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In February 2003, a month before the invasion, ElBaradei told the United Nations that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives."
so now we know where they went/are, they are being used in the reconstruction of Iraq.
nothing to see here , move along move along.
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The reason I'm taking a negative stance about the missing explosives is I've seen them used against our troops. This was not an isolated incident. Discovery/Times is running a very good series called "Off to War: From Rural Arkansas to Baghdad" (http://times.discovery.com/convergence/offtowar/offtowar.html) . They document a case just like this at Camp Cooke (it may be the same one). Loose HE was lying everywhere. There were no guards posted after we captured them and looting was rampant. Watch the show and you will see for yourself.
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"Officials were unable to link the missing explosives directly to the recent car bombings."
this is getting boring,
lets find something else to blame on bush. but hurry , we'r running out of time.
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Originally posted by rpm
Thanks for the link Dago, but it was the wrong one. That report mentions NBC, not CBS. I bet this is a Drudge or NewsMax story or the link would already be posted.
The Army unit that found the storage bunkers was accompanied by an embedded reporter from NBC news. The reported high explosives were missing (April of 2003). They were still missing when the ordnance team officially inspected the site.
NBC News reported Monday night that one of its reporters was embedded with the 101st Airborne. She watched the troops conduct what can be described as a "cursory search" of the premises on April 10, and found a great deal of conventional ordnance, but no RDX or HMX.
IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei reported the disappearance to the U.N. Security Council on Monday, two weeks after he said Iraq told the nuclear agency that the explosives had vanished from the former Iraqi military installation as a result of "theft and looting ... due to lack of security." Note that ElBaradei is seeking to be reappointed to his position, but Bush opposes this citing previous deceit in public statement to the press and the UN. Supposedly, the IAEA tagged the RDX and HDX during one of its inspections.
In May 2003, members of the Iraq Survey Group, a weapons inspection team, began work at Al-Qaqaa. It conducted 25 inspections, which covered 37 large bunkers and more than 80 other buildings. No IAEA-tagged high-explosive material was found.
Try this link. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136663,00.html)
So, ElBaradei knowingly lied to protect his own position, yet again demonstrating that the UN is bound and determined to interfere in a US Presidential election. This, by the way, is reported to be a violation of the UN Charter.
Since the L.A. Times reports that CBS news intended to air this false report two days before the election, can anyone state that CBS is not deliberately trying to undermine the election? Maybe the FCC should have a good look at their licence after the election... Fortunately, the NY Times spilled the beans early, reporting the story as fact. So, both are discredited. Seems like Kerry has hitched his wagon to yet another falling star.....
To quote Kerry on this issue: it's"one of the great blunders" of the war.
"Terrorists could use this material to kill our troops, our people, blow up airplanes and level buildings," Kerry said. "The unbelievable blindness, stubbornness, arrogance of this administration to do the basics have now allowed this president to once again fail the test of being the commander in chief."
When asked by MSNBC's "Hardball" host Chris Matthews if Bill Clinton urged Kerry to push the issue of Iraq or more domestic issues during a joint campaign event in Philadelphia on Monday, Kerry said Clinton was "very concerned about this ammo dump thing."
"He thinks that -- and I think that -- represents the way in which this administration has miscalculated again and again and again in Iraq," Kerry said in the interview, which aired Monday night. "And this is serious, because just a small amount, if only a few tons of it fell into the hands of terrorists, it's more than enough to blow airplanes out of the sky, buildings to the ground, it's deadly serious. And it's so basic to what we should have been doing over there."
What about Edwards? "The reality is that they didn't secure them. The Bush administration didn't secure these materials. They haven't taken the steps necessary to be successful in Iraq. And we're seeing the consequences of it every single day."
The reality of it is that both were duped... Again.
My regards,
Widewing
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Lemme see if I got this right. Kerry claims that 380 tons of explosives disappeared while our troops were in Iraq and can't be found. Some of you Democrats are all over this story as if it's proof that Bush has failed. Yet you same guys claim that because WMDs can't be found it's proof they don't/didn't exist?
Someone explain to me how 380 tons of dangerous explosives can disappear under our noses but it's not possible for say 380 tons of nerve gas to disappear while we're not even there.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Lemme see if I got this right. Kerry claims that 380 tons of explosives disappeared while our troops were in Iraq and can't be found. Some of you Democrats are all over this story as if it's proof that Bush has failed. Yet you same guys claim that because WMDs can't be found it's proof they don't/didn't exist?
Someone explain to me how 380 tons of dangerous explosives can disappear under our noses but it's not possible for say 380 tons of nerve gas to disappear while we're not even there.
The facts will come out that if in fact it did "disapear" under the occupation it did so between jan. 03 and May 03. So really this isn't new news, it is an election week ploy.
Second, DO YOU KNOW THE LOGISTICS INVOLVED IN MOVING 380 TONS OF ANYTHING? 38 good size trucks would have to take 10 trips! Chances are these were moved AFTER/DURING the invasion, or they were never there to begin with.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Second, DO YOU KNOW THE LOGISTICS INVOLVED IN MOVING 380 TONS OF ANYTHING?
380 tons of explosives? That would be so easy to move, I could do it alone in just a few minutes. (with a detonator)
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I think this story will blow up in Kerry's face. ( pun intended)
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I think the FCC should pull CBS's broadcasting license.
This was to air the night before the election in a deliberate, blatent and admitted attempt to manipulate the Presidental election.
I can't think of too many other things that are more unamerican then that.
The Media's job (IMHO)is too give the people the facts and let them make up thier mind.Now, I know that it is a little unrealistic too expect no bias at all, but this was way overboard.
If the dem/libs are so desperate to get into the White House that they think they have to resort to this,are they really the type of people we want running the country ?
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Originally posted by Flit
I think the FCC should pull CBS's broadcasting license.
This was to air the night before the election in a deliberate, blatent and admitted attempt to manipulate the Presidental election.
Not only that Flit, but because of McCain/Fiengold a federal canidate is at the mercy of 'fair' media to set the story straight when a partisan so called "news orginization" runs a smear campaign. Thanks to McCains precious anti-first admendment reforms, a canidate cant buy media time to refute false allegations days prior to an election.
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I wonder who decides what "fair media" is
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NBC News reported Monday night that one of its reporters was embedded with the 101st Airborne. She watched the troops conduct what can be described as a "cursory search" of the premises on April 10, and found a great deal of conventional ordnance, but no RDX or HMX.
On tonight's NBC News they said the story had become distorted by the Bush campaign and did a major clarification of what they reported. They said the 101st did not locate the explosives. They do not no how extensive the search was or if one was conducted at all. Just the 101st did not locate any.
Now let's take your side for a minute and say there WERE WMD's in Iraq. The insurgants could have made off with them instead of the explosives. This was poor planning. Bush may have not made the post-war plan himself, but he signed off on it. How many passes does this guy get before he is finally held responsable and fired? If this happened to Gore conservatives would be screaming for blood.
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Originally posted by rpm
On tonight's NBC News they said the story had become distorted by the Bush campaign and did a major clarification of what they reported. They said the 101st did not locate the explosives. They do not no how extensive the search was or if one was conducted at all. Just the 101st did not locate any.
Now let's take your side for a minute and say there WERE WMD's in Iraq. The insurgants could have made off with them instead of the explosives. This was poor planning. Bush may have not made the post-war plan himself, but he signed off on it. How many passes does this guy get before he is finally held responsable and fired? If this happened to Gore conservatives would be screaming for blood.
un freeking believable :rofl
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uh?
How can you hold the US Army responsible for weapons that were not there when they first arrived at a location?
The dems (and their butt buds in the media) are getting desperate
LOL
they could have disappeared anytime btwn jan 03 and the invasion
IAEA inspectors last saw the explosives in January 2003 when they took an inventory and placed fresh seals on the bunkers, Fleming said. Inspectors visited the site again in March 2003, but didn't view the explosives because the seals were not broken, she said.
Nuclear agency experts pulled out of Iraq just before the U.S.-led invasion later that month, and have not yet been able to return for general inspections despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that they be allowed to finish their work. Although IAEA inspectors have made two trips to Iraq since the war at U.S. requests, Russia and other Security Council members have pressed for their full-time return — so far unsuccessfully.
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said coalition forces were present in the vicinity of the site both during and after major combat operations, which ended May 1, 2003 — and searched the facility but found none of the explosives material in question. That raised the possibility that the explosives had disappeared before U.S. soldiers could secure the site in the immediate invasion aftermath.
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Originally posted by rpm
On tonight's NBC News they said the story had become distorted by the Bush campaign and did a major clarification of what they reported. They said the 101st did not locate the explosives. They do not no how extensive the search was or if one was conducted at all. Just the 101st did not locate any.
They found plenty of rocket propelled grenades, lots of small arms ammo, but no high explosives. It was supposedly tagged by the UN inspectors. I don't think I could miss 377 tons of high explosives even during a cursory seach, hell, even a glance in a bunker would do.
You also have forgotten that the Iraq Survey Group, sent over to specifically document all Iraqi weapons, didn't find it either. Why? Because it had already been moved. They went to Al-Qaqaa specifically because it was a possible location for storing WMD. Al-Qaqaa is a substantial weapons storage facility with 37 bunkers.
Now let's take your side for a minute and say there WERE WMD's in Iraq. The insurgants could have made off with them instead of the explosives. This was poor planning. Bush may have not made the post-war plan himself, but he signed off on it. How many passes does this guy get before he is finally held responsable and fired? If this happened to Gore conservatives would be screaming for blood.
How could insurgents make off with 377 tons of high explosives when there were few insurgents at the time and fewer yet with 38 tractor-trailers and several fork lifts. And, how were they going to move 38 tractor-trailers thru the many check points? Remember, the war was just 3 weeks old when the 101st over-ran the bunker complex. How many insurgents were active in Iraq at that time?
Secondly, anyone who has any military experience knows the old adage: "The first casualty of the battle is always the battle plan." Does the phrase, "the fog of war" ring a bell? Almost nothing goes according to the plan. Not invasions, nor battles, nor presidential campaigns. Kerry will soon vouch for that. Any basic study of military history will show that wars are planned based upon the information at hand, and that information is ALWAYS flawed to some extent.
Any idiot can sit back with the benefit of hindsight and criticize the war. There's many thousands of Civil War buffs who meet monthly for "round table" discussions; where they tear apart the decisions made by Generals 140 years ago. Yet, not one of these guys could do any better. Neither could Kerry.
And I agree with some of the other posters, the FCC should fine the snot out of CBS and suspend their licence for two weeks. Let them suck up that revenue loss, while their affiliates show reruns. Maybe they will re-learn the lesson that freedom of the press isn't a mandate to manipulate the news in an overt effort to alter the election. You'd think that after the forged document debacle, they would wise up. Guess not.
Tell ya what rpm, reset your rev limiter, you're spinning out of control on this one.
My regards,
Widewing
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(http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/04.10.26.KaDud-X.gif)
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it's very simple.
no WMD was found, so that means there were no WMD.
no 380tons of high explosive were found, so there was no 380 tons of high explosive.
how hard is that to understand?
of course, saddam could have buried the 380 tons of high explosive with the nonexistant WMD in the desert.
to date US troops have found/destroyed 400,000 tons of Iraq munitions. it looks like "oil for food" was really "oil for weapons"
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Assumimg Iraqi's follow US civilian load regs (which I doubt) it would be 15 tractor trailer loads of 25 tons, not 38. NBC News has said they were misquoted by the Bush campaign and are not backing Bush's statements that they are proof it was'nt there.
I've given you a source showing we did not guard ammo dumps AFTER we secured them and insurgants used that ammo against American troops. This was not an isolated incident.
You ask how many insurgents were in Iraq after the war. How many Republican Guard, Baathists and other Saddam supporters were there? THEY were/are insurgents.
Bush expected flowers and kisses when we defeated Saddam and that is what he planned for. Unfortunately for him, that wasn't entirely the case. The first rule of war is never underestimate your enemy. Bush did just that and failed to have a plan in place to prevent possible munitions looting.
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how in the heck do you know "and insurgants used that ammo against American troops"?
you know for a fact - they have labels on them or something?
You don't even know for certain ANYTHING was stolen. Anyone SEE anyone walking away with 380 tons of boom in his pockets?
"NBC News has said they were misquoted by the Bush campaign and are not backing Bush's statements that they are proof it was'nt there" - who cares what NBC says? they are in it to get their boy skerry in office by any means possible as are the other lib news orgs - just doing their part you know...
bunch of last minute liberal spin made to daze and confuse the retard who lets his gut make last second decisions for his poor excuse of a brain ... congrats for being sucked into it
LOL
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Originally posted by rpm
Assumimg Iraqi's follow US civilian load regs (which I doubt) it would be 15 tractor trailer loads of 25 tons, not 38. NBC News has said they were misquoted by the Bush campaign and are not backing Bush's statements that they are proof it was'nt there.
I've given you a source showing we did not guard ammo dumps AFTER we secured them and insurgants used that ammo against American troops. This was not an isolated incident.
You ask how many insurgents were in Iraq after the war. How many Republican Guard, Baathists and other Saddam supporters were there? THEY were/are insurgents.
Bush expected flowers and kisses when we defeated Saddam and that is what he planned for. Unfortunately for him, that wasn't entirely the case. The first rule of war is never underestimate your enemy. Bush did just that and failed to have a plan in place to prevent possible munitions looting.
A. Without knowing the volume 25 tons of explosives occupies, you have no idea if 25 tons will even FIT in one average 40 foot trailer.
B. Even IF 25 tons of explosives DID fit, now you ASSUME thaty they HAD 15 such rigs and could move about the country freely without being seen and or searched.
C. You ASSUME that these explosives MUST be the improvised explosives used by the TERRORISTS (they are NOT INSURGENTS).
D. You have ZERO PROOF of ANY of the above.
E. CBS (more like SEE BS) "News" ADMITS (not necessarily of their own free will, they got caught by a memo)that they planned to "break" this "news" of something that has been known for over a YEAR, the Sunday before the election. This is AFTER Dan Rather got BUSTED for KNOWINGLY using FORGED "memos" to CREATE a story.
F. You are so bent on Bush's "destruction" it isn't funny. You are so full of fecal matter it must be terribly difficult to swallow, but I'm sure if SEE BS and/or Kerry claimed Saddam tried to prevent the attacks of 11 September 2001, you'd certainly attempt to swallow that. Check your redline RPM, you're spinning damned near the speed of light.
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E generally comes before F.
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dowding is correct.... say what you want about cbs and their obvious agenda and sleazy lying and forgeries...
at least they know how to alphabetize!
lazs
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Say what you will about Bush, his obvious agenda and his sleazy lying and forged African uranium shipment documents... he at least knows about his alphabetaizicalities!
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Originally posted by Dowding
Say what you will about Bush, his obvious agenda and his sleazy lying and forged African uranium shipment documents... he at least knows about his alphabetaizicalities!
stop stop ..all this spinning is making me dizzy.
re. African uranium .
nobody ever said saddam actualy bought the uranium ore(yellow cake).
what was said, is that saddam was trying to buy the uranium ore.
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I think the point of this thread is point out the obvious attempt to minipulate the election.
I don't care who is president , or what tv station attempted this, or what side did it,it is WRONG
Anyone who does'nt see that it's wrong is to stupid to be allowed to vote
It has nothing too do with If the explosives were there or not.
It has to do with manipulating a democratic election, in the USA.
If we're going to set an example for the rest of the world, I don't think this is the one we want to set.
As a matter of fact, I 'm gonna go make my complaint to the FCC right now.
I would suggest anyone who thinks this is wrong should do the same. If enough complain, They'll have'ta do something about it
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BUSH REBUKES KERRY OVER 'MISSING EXPLOSIVES' ATTACK
Wed Oct 27 2004 11:59:11 ET
Bush at rally in Pennsylvania:
"After repeatedly calling Iraq the wrong war, and a diversion, Senator Kerry this week seemed shocked to learn that Iraq is a dangerous place, full of dangerous weapons..."
"If Senator Kerry had his way... Saddam Hussein would still be in power. He would control those all of those weapons and explosives and could share them with his terrorist friends. Now the senator is making wild charges about missing explosives, when his top foreign policy adviser admits, quote, 'We do not know the facts.' Think about that: The senator is denigrating the actions of our troops and commanders in the field without knowing the facts..."
"Our military is now investigating a number of possible scenarios, including that the explosives may have been moved before our troops even arrived at the site. This investigation is important and it's ongoing. And a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your commander in chief."
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flit... don't worry... someone as stupid as dowding will not be allowed to vote in this election.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
flit... don't worry... someone as stupid as dowding will not be allowed to vote in this election.
lazs
If only that were true.
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If you pair are the only aces in the pack, god help America.
AKIron and Lazs - like a broken LP of Hitler's greatest speeches that never gets past track one; overblown, tired old rhetoric ad nauseum et infinitum.
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Originally posted by Dowding
If you pair are the only aces in the pack, god help America.
AKIron and Lazs - like a broken LP of Hitler's greatest speeches that never gets past track one; overblown, tired old rhetoric ad nauseum et infinitum.
Could be worse, they could still by a subject under the crown of King George's relatives...:lol
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I suggest you try to avoid using Hollywood as a study aid.
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Looks like maybe the Russians helped move that stuff.
http://www.Drudgereport.com
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Sounds like Kerry and his supporters are the ultimate Armchair Presidents.
I wish my life would run like Kerry invisions his presidency. See a scenario unfold including the consequences, then tell everyone the best possible scenario, never see the results pass/fail, and say I woulda done that. Oh, and I woulda done that smarter, and better.
If only it were that simple, Communism woulda worked out...looked good on paper. Problem is, real life got in the way.
I wish Kerry supporters, which aren't two words that go together... More like, Bush Haters could see how empty that suit is Kerry is wearing.
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I still wanna know why it's so easy for some to believe unquestioningly that this 380 tons of HE disappeared under our noses while scoffing at the mere suggestion that a much smaller amount of WMD disappeared before our troops arrived. Could it have anything to do with their political agenda? Do they believe that any lie is justified in the name of politics? Will they ever see their own hypocrisy? Tune in this time next week to learn who most Americans trust to lead us into the future.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I suggest you try to avoid using Hollywood as a study aid.
:rofl
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Originally posted by NUKE
I think this story will blow up in Kerry's face. ( pun intended)
very well done
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rpm will never answer that question Iron. If he even thought about it for 2 seconds he would see the hypocrisy of his own words...can't have that happening to him.....:rolleyes: