Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nilsen on October 27, 2004, 02:30:10 PM
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Does every vote count when voting for the president in USA? (you sum them all up)
I thought so, but then i started hearing something about electoral votes. Does that mean that each candidate wins states and then the number of states you have won will dictate who wins, and different states are valued differently based on that "electoral vote thingie"?
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...and different states are valued differently based on that "electoral vote thingie"?
Yes. The electoral college means that a vote in a low-population state counts slightly more than a vote in a high-population state.
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Originally posted by ra
Yes. The electoral college means that a vote in a low-population state counts slightly more than a vote in a high-population state.
So basicly the votes of those living in low populated states are worth more than those living in higly populated states?
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it should be that votes in low population states count at least 4 times more than in states with high populations but life isn't fair.
do you really want the taxi riding, apartment dwelling, metrosexuals deceiding anything for real people?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
it should be that votes in low population states count at least 4 times more than in states with high populations but life isn't fair.
do you really want the taxi riding, apartment dwelling, metrosexuals deceiding anything for real people?
lazs
I take it that you have plenty of trees or desert around your house and not alot of skyscrapers?.... and that bush gets "4" votes from you :D
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Originally posted by Nilsen
So basicly the votes of those living in low populated states are worth more than those living in higly populated states?
If you want to put it that way, yes.
Here's another one: each state gets 2 Senators, regardless of the state's population. Rhode Island gets 2, California gets 2.
ra
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Originally posted by ra
If you want to put it that way, yes.
Here's another one: each state gets 2 Senators, regardless of the state's population. Rhode Island gets 2, California gets 2.
ra
is everyone happy with that arrangement, or is there alot of debate around it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
do you really want the taxi riding, apartment dwelling, metrosexuals deceiding anything for real people?
lazs
LOL, you're turning into a charactature of yourself....funny though.
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That debate ended 200+ years ago.
Everyone is happy with it except the Democrats when they lose. Then they call their lawyers.
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there is not much debate on the senator thing. there is mild debate on the electorial vote thing but mostly when there is a loss by a small margin.
I do belive that states with low populations should not be pushed around by tiny little areas of population.
lazs
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I would agree with you thrawn if I were pontificating about canadian politics.
lazs
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The system of electing a President works exactly as it was designed to work. A president will be elected per the procedural law as defined in the constitution. In this I am pleased. Very pleased.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I would agree with you thrawn if I were pontificating about canadian politics.
lazs
Dude, you made a huge sweeping generalisation about people that live in cities. Tell a Pittsburg steel worker he's a taxi riding, apartment dwelling, metrosexual.
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Yeah Thrawn saw a TV show about Pittsburgh once, how dare you question his authoritay!
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Originally posted by Nilsen
is everyone happy with that arrangement, or is there alot of debate around it.
There was a lot of fighting over this during the creation of Constitution.
The compromise was to split the two houses of the Congress their representation. In the Senate, all states are represented equally, with 2 Senators a piece. In the House of Representatives, each state is represented by a number of Congressmen proportional to their population.
The Electoral College is seen by some as an indispensable part of State Sovereignty. That is, in the US, each of the States is considered to be Sovereign within the Federal Government. Obviously, this has limitations (I mean, Georgia can not declare war on Jamaica) Yet, State Autonomy was, and is, considered an important aspect of our Constitutional Framework. I'm sure someone like Todd can explain the particulars as to how State Sovereignty is preserved by the EC much better than I could.
But this might get things rolling.
-Sik
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yeah Thrawn saw a TV show about Pittsburgh once, how dare you question his authoritay!
Indeed, it was called, "The taxi riding, apartment dwelling, metrosexual Pitzberg steelworker".
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Indeed, it was called, "The taxi riding, apartment dwelling, metrosexual Pitzberg steelworker".
Did you see the episode where J.C.'s job was outsorced, and he tried to learn Japanese? The Scene where he winds up driving the Cab with Rico in the back was hillarious.
-Sik
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To answer your question directly Nils, no your vote does not count. It is solely decided by electoral votes. The percentage of votes cast for a presidential candidate has no relation to the number of electoral votes he recieves from that state's EC. It's all or nothing.
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thrawn... what is good for city dwelling steel workers is not what rural people feel is good for them most of the time. simply look at any map of how the country votes and how few counties have such a large effect on the rest of the country... the needs are very different.
nilelsen.... both.... I live in a fairly rural area but my states electorial votes are decieded by the metrosexuals in the population areas.
either way... I don't worry much about what is going on in canada.
lazs
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Originally posted by rpm
To answer your question directly Nils, no your vote does not count. It is solely decided by electoral votes. The percentage of votes cast for a presidential candidate has no relation to the number of electoral votes he recieves from that state's EC. It's all or nothing.
I see. So that is why the stuff that happened down in Florida last time around had such an impact?.
If they had counted each and every vote the outcome could have been different.... or not.
Anyways... thx for clearing it up everyone. :)
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Originally posted by Nilsen
If they had counted each and every vote the outcome could have been different.... or not.
If we went by popular vote "counting each and every vote" as a whole, then Gore would have won.
-Sik
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to add to the confusion, each states electoral col. reps. USUALLY vote the way the state votes, (i.e. if Missouri votes majority bush, the electoral guys do too), BUT not always.
In the past states have voted for one guy for prez, and their electoral reps. for the other. (history buffs/google wiz's help me out here.)
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What lazs means is we should vote according to elbow room. The more elbow room the more votes.
For example San Bernardino County in California should have the same number of votes as Rhode Island. No wait... more. Since the folks in SB county have way more elbow room.
Why the heck doesn't the Mojave desert have the same clout as LA?
Life is just not fair!
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Pittsbugh does not have any steelworkers anymore, the enviro-nazis closed all the steel mills and sent the jobs to japan.
the prez of the USA is chosen by a secret international cartel called the "blunderburgers", we just pretend to hold elections to keep the UN out of it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
thrawn... what is good for city dwelling steel workers is not what rural people feel is good for them most of the time. simply look at any map of how the country votes and how few counties have such a large effect on the rest of the country... the needs are very different.
nilelsen.... both.... I live in a fairly rural area but my states electorial votes are decieded by the metrosexuals in the population areas.
either way... I don't worry much about what is going on in canada.
lazs
Dont get me wrong lazs... I dont have anything against people that are not urbanised city people. I only see the ocean when looking outside myself :)
Or to say it in another way.... If i fire a gun in either direction i wont hit anyone :D
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mt.. weren't we talking about entire states?
lazs
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Why is it called electoral college?
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Why is it called electoral college?
Because "Electoral High School" didn't sound serious enough.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Because "Electoral High School" didn't sound serious enough.
-Sik
Boooooooo!
Hey, is there anyone from Rhode Island on these boards?
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Originally posted by hawker238
Boooooooo!
Hey, is there anyone from Rhode Island on these boards?
Not anymore. I was attached to the War College for a bit. I'm still close, though.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Does every vote count when voting for the president in USA? (you sum them all up)
I thought so, but then i started hearing something about electoral votes. Does that mean that each candidate wins states and then the number of states you have won will dictate who wins, and different states are valued differently based on that "electoral vote thingie"?
The Electoral College was created by the framers of the U.S. Constitution as a compromise for the presidential election process. At the time, some politicians believed a purely popular election was too reckless, while others objected to giving Congress the power to select the president. The compromise was to set up an Electoral College system that allowed voters to vote for electors, who would then cast their votes for candidates, a system described in Article II, section 1 of the Constitution.
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Originally posted by john9001
Pittsbugh does not have any steelworkers anymore, the enviro-nazis closed all the steel mills and sent the jobs to japan.
John, it doesn't matter what you think if Pitszbarg because you don't know to spell it properly.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Not anymore. I was attached to the War College for a bit. I'm still close, though.
Hanging out in the men's room is not officially considered attached.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Not anymore. I was attached to the War College for a bit. I'm still close, though.
Cool, I was at the War College for a week during American Legion Boys State.
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Originally posted by rpm
Hanging out in the men's room is not officially considered attached.
Is that what they told you when you got caught?
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Originally posted by hawker238
Cool, I was at the War College for a week during American Legion Boys State.
When I was there, I had apts in Newport, Narragansett, W. Warwick, and Providence. at various times.
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Nilsen,
The short answer to your question, is in fact, yes. An induvidual's vote in the US presidential election in fact does not "count," all presidents are elected through the electoral college (a collection of people rather than an educational institution)--Generally around the middle of December. Long answer to follow.
Each state is alloted electors based on how many members of congress they send to DC, e.g. California has 53 members in the House of Reps. and 2 Senators, thus 55 votes altogether. The lowest number of votes a state can have is three, e.g. Wyoming with one memeber of the House and 2 Senators.
In 48 of the 50 states, the winner of the popular vote in the state will, in theory, recieve the votes of those number of electors--generally picked by the political party apparatus of te winner. Two states, Nebraska and Maine, will "split" their electors based on who recieves the most votes in each congressional district--there has never been a split in either of these states. Thus, in theory, your vote, on Nov. 2, is a vote for which party gets to pick the electors of that state. In Dec. the electors get together and cast their votes for the pres.
In history there have only been two recorded instances of so called "rogue" electors who cast their vote counter to the popular vote of thier state--in 1976 one republican cast his vote for Reagan instead of Ford (as he was suppossed to do), and in 2000 one elector for the District of Columbia (why they get a say I have no idea) left her ballot blank to protest DC's lack of statehood, Gore was suppossed to recieve that vote. Most states make it illegal for an elector to cast their vote for anyone other than the winner of the popular vote.
Why this strange system? Well I hate to dispel notions of "state soveriegnty" (a mythical concept born in Southern States to help assauge their massive egos--two words: Supremacy Clause), the electoral college in fact, according to its founder, Madison, was about distrust of the mobs. One need look at the old method of choosing Senators, they were appointed not directly elected. Madison thought, and the Constitutional Convention agreed, that the election of the president could not be trusted to the masses--thus an elite group have the real say-so. In fact, all decisions in our federal government are made by an elite class of citizen, instead of a popular vote--efficient and generally not subject to wild swings of mood. It aint perfect but seems to work.
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the "summing up" of the national popular vote is simply unecessary
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Originally posted by rpm
To answer your question directly Nils, no your vote does not count. It is solely decided by electoral votes. The percentage of votes cast for a presidential candidate has no relation to the number of electoral votes he recieves from that state's EC. It's all or nothing.
This depends on the state. most states are all or nothing, but some states do split the EC votes.
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Originally posted by WMLute
to add to the confusion, each states electoral col. reps. USUALLY vote the way the state votes, (i.e. if Missouri votes majority bush, the electoral guys do too), BUT not always.
In the past states have voted for one guy for prez, and their electoral reps. for the other. (history buffs/google wiz's help me out here.)
the EC voters can vote however they choose to, but to do so will result in them paying a $500 fine and loss of the privilege to cast the EC vote in any future elections. in this state anyway.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
I only see the ocean when looking outside myself :)
you beach bum :D
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Why is it called electoral college?
col-lege
n.
2.
a. A body of persons having a common purpose or shared duties: a college of surgeons.
b. An electoral college.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=college (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=college)
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So you've heard the other's responses about the electoral college, they are correct.
The subject actually is still being debated today. A form of the EC was actually used by the Roman's a very long time ago. The US started using it in the 1800's, why? There are many beliefs of why the US started using it. Conveniency, to win elections, for fair elections, compromises, etc etc.
The electoral college wasn't even written as a federal law until the 1840's.
In my opinion, there is no need today for the Electoral College. I believe it should be based on the popular vote only.
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Originally posted by DieAz
you beach bum :D
lol yeah.... for the moment tho im a rock bum, but we will put more sand there to make it a real beach :)
Originally posted by DieAz
col-lege
n.
2.
a. A body of persons having a common purpose or shared duties: a college of surgeons.
b. An electoral college.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=college (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=college)
Thx