Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Soviet on October 08, 2001, 11:53:00 PM
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I decided that the FW-190A8 is gonna be my ride for the next month or so, I flew it in the past a couple of times but i would like to know some evasive manuevers for it.
I heard with it's roll rate it's excellent at barrel rolls and scicciors. I don't know how to do these can anyone help me?
Thanks,
~Soviet
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Hi Sowiet, i am dedicated FW190D9 driver, and so scissors and barrel rolls are esential for em (speed even more ;) ).
Scissors: u fly break turns to the left and right, timed in this way, that the guy behind u flies more or less a straight line. This will normally cause him to overshoot cause he flies a shorter way than u.
To time the reversals right, u must be capable of flying with view back.
My general rule to scissors is the following.
Say i start with a turn left, than when i see the guy rolling left and start to pull left, i quickly roll to the right ad turn right, if the guys wing drops to match my turn, i reverse again. And so on.
Problem in FW190 is that it has very bad low speed handling, try to keep it in scissors over 200mph IAS. Most plane wil handle better, if the guy behind u is smart he waits till u get slow and then will us his superior slow speed handling. In D9 i use scissors only as last resort, my defense with a D9 is most of the time speed. dont always perform the rolls the same way, if i.e. in right turn, u can also quickly roll right instead of left to change direction.
Barrel Roll, functions well against an nme closing fast. Again u try to travel a longer way than him, so he will overshoot(hopefully). Also works well to throw off the aim of guys sitting very close and without a speed advantage, but than again its a last resort move.
The best defense in FW is, from my experience SA. Dont let urself get into situations were u must rely on scissors or barrel rolls. Cause nearly every othr plane if not every other plane is better at the low speed game than u.
Best fly together with a wingman or two, so they can interfer in emergency.
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I don't fly 'em, but I do my best to kill them.
I'm most successful when I can ping them with the Spit's 0.5's and panic them into turning, then they're mine; especialy at low alt.
I'm least sucessful when they have the patience to treat me like a bomber..keep their distance, use their speed to get away and give themselves room to move and most of all run like hell as soon as they begin to feel they're fighting uphill to get me.
The Fw's strength is offense. If you're starting to get defensive, run, run some more, then come back and have another go. This means you *never* fight below 5K. If the fight gets that low, dive away.
Happiness is an Fw trapped in a Mindano valley.
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Yes i agree with Seeker.
Stay offensive, dont let u get into a defensive situation. If u enter an area and u see couple of cons at higher alt, turn around and climb. If they approah u, lvl out and get separation. If they get closer, get speed in a dive and extend to friendlier skies.
As i said a smart guy knows ur weakness at slow speeds and will just sit and wait till u burned all ur E.
Btw the worst opponent for a FW drier is a Spray and Pray Pony jockey at distance 700-900 yrds. Actually u r save, but the lucky guy will most often get pings on u and hit a vital part. Not long ago i was alone in a very "infriendly" area. I killed a 109er with a quick bounce, when a P51 approached me. He closed to 600, than i got away slowly. I though i were save, when the guy startet Spray'N'Prayinf from 800. He pinged my elevator 4-6 times and bye bye horizontal stab. :)
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One big strength of the 190 series is great accelleration. For that reason if there is only one enemy in your area, moves that slow you quickly to force an overshoot, followed by 0G dives can really work for the 190. Scissor or barrel roll hard to try to force the overshoot. Take a shot if you can, and if not roll out to his blind side and dive away. A 190 of any stripe will leave many planes in the dust during accelleration.
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I agree with the points already stated. I fly dedicated 190 series since a month or so (I fly all 190's). Strongest points are roll-rate and acceleration (and therefore able to change flight direction very fast). Together with good SA and offensive flying will get you good results. If you don't have a wingman, try to stay not too far to friendly planes when below 15k. Don't stay on the deck too long in a furball, there's always gonna be somebody that will try to jump you, :)
Scissors and Barrel rolls are emergency evasive maneuvers, they don't work against all adversaries. The less you need them, the more you'll survive.
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Apar1 ]
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Watch NathBDP do his scissor thing-a-majig. I can insantly tell when it's him when I'm creeping up on a 190. I THINK he throttles back, and once you get to about d.800 or so, he cranks it left, you turn left, then he nails it right, and BANG, he gets a crossshot on you, EVERY DAMN TIME (and no, he doesn't miss).
I've tried everything against the little gaffer, and I still haven't won one with him yet when I've got the advantage at his 6. And no, he won't tell me how he's doing it either.
He's the best 190 pilot in the game IMO.
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190 is great plane ... try ask Minus he is great in 190 at co alt fight
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Rule # 1. DO NOT follow a 190 when he scissors unless you are almost as slow as he is already, you both are flying below 200 MPH, and your plane handles better at low speed. Make it simple... just don't do it. If you have more E than he does and you are closing for a shot, when he hits the scissors you simply go up, roll inverted, and wait. If he tries to follow when you go up, rope him. If he continues the scissors, you dive back onto him when he is done blowing his E.
Timing is everything, closely followed by estimating E states. But the best counter to a scissoring opponent is not to follow him at all.
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Bagpiper, it's a common manuver, he uses your speed to his advantage, if you wanna survive it, don't follow it, when he brakes left hard, keep flying straight forward, pull up and zoom up, then come down in the vertical and have another go on the guy you're attacking.
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in order to beat a co-alt- co -e - Co skill pilot of a Spit when you are flying a Fw190A8, you must be the better pilot because his plane(spit fire) is much more simple to fly, and he has not to much to worry about as far as unforgivingness of his easy plane.
The 190 would have to outsmart and use agressive planned angles fighting to win.
(all things consisdered equal among skillsets)
<--- respects no spit fire flyer because they are to simple to fly :D
same thing goes with n1ks/zeros :)
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Soviet just yank on the stick a bunch, with sudden left-right motions. That seems to work for a lot of 190 pilots. Net lag is the friend of the Luftwaffle. :)
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Soviet,
In terms of 'defense' there is no other key element than being aggressive, no such thing as defense, just offense.
Being aggressive in the 190 during offense is also key, the aircraft doesn't hold E very well and it has great guns, so what you want to do is be aggressive on the first or second pass and make use of your 4 (i hope you're using 4) cannons, BnZ gets you no where against a skilled pilot and you won't get better using those tactics.
The way I fly the 190 is aggresively, I fly to get kills, I don't orbit around a fight with a thumb up my arse waiting for the right time to strike, I go in and kill, kill and kill. This works for me, and I think it's how all people who are learning a new plane should fight--it is the best way to 'know & learn' the aircraft you flying. You won't accomplish this by flying conservatively.
If you want to learn defense in 190 then you better learn how to turn her as tight as possible and master the snap roll to win the scissors.
When someone has the advantage on me it's all mental. You make them think they have you, then you reveal the ruse--to their own detriment.
Oh btw Bagpipe, I'd be glad to show you the move, but I wouldn't take wilbus' advice(no offense wilbus). What you wanna do against the move he described is slow down and follow your opponent, he won't expect this.
And the key to air combat is being unpredictably aggressive.
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One other thing--practice your deflection shooting.
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Nath, what u must explain me, how u survive this kill kill kill aggressivness.
Everytime i try to fly my D9 this way, its the times i get killed more often than i score. And i tried it for quite a while.
Naturally one big difference between us is, u seem to have this "sense" for fighting in AH from ur long experience i still miss.
I knew we did some fighting shortly after the introduction of the D9 and this were the engagements that showed me that to much aggressiveness with the D9 is deadly.
P.S. maybe my deflection shooting is still to bad, but i can tell u it got a bit better :)
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Was flying a Yak-9U about an hour after my first post and got a mossie and a f4u on my tail kept scissoring for like 5 minutes and 2 nikis joined the fray and they still were wasting their ammo. Then some 3rd niki came in and got me but lol it took 3 n1k2s, 1 f4u-1d, and 1 mossie to shoot me down :D
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That's the idea, Soviet, just try and get a shot on them by breaking hard in a certain direction (usually dictated to me by the direction in which my aircraft torques), then reverse back on them, after awhile you will get better and better at the scissors using this technique.
When in that situation ALWAYS try and keep then fight against your opponents close (preferably below 100 yards) so it will be easier to make them overshoot or screw up (auger). Panic is always a friend to you and an enemy to your opponents.
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Nath[BDP] ]
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Naudet,
Experience definatly has something to do with it, but another is confidence (which I gained through experience).
You must also realize that I don't just fly into a gaggle of enemy cons, that is not what I am saying to do. I am talking about being aggressive against a foe, and if he happens to have 2 or 3 friendly cons above him that is a risk I am willing to take in order to shoot him down. You may ask yourself what I get out of this, well, mostly it's more experience and better aim.
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Good posts Nath. <S>
There are two things that make it possible for guys to operate as you describe:
1. Ability to make the other guy miss ONCE.
2. Ability to kill the other guy with only one shooting opportunity.
If you can do 1. and 2. this game can be fun in any plane. And the only way to learn 1. and 2. is to do like Nath says, and take a lot of chances.
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cc Funked, exactly.
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yeah ...
But when you have 0 and -1 like me ... expect to live as a target :D
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Hey guys, till now i don't remember a single ping that hitted me coming from any sort of 190 but,......those guys can't say the same thing of me and my TEMP hehehehehe.
[ 10-13-2001: Message edited by: clouds ]