Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on October 27, 2004, 10:46:25 PM
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I predict that if the Boston Red Sox win the world series, Kerry wins the election.
:D
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Four more years. (http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov) :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Nash
Four more years. (http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov) :rolleyes:
Glad that expensive education paid off.
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Since 1918 the washington redskins have predicted the presidental winner, if they win the sunday before the election the incumbent wins, if the lose the challenger wins. Being a pack fan and a Bush fan this is very disturbing too me. I still gotta go with the Pack too win so hopefully this year they will be wrong.
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He does get it right, once in awhile.:rofl
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Thinking two urelated events somehow affect each other is obsessive compulsive.
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How come it's called the World Serries, and the winners refered to as world champions when it's only the US in it?
...-Gixer
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Why do you care?
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Cuz you dont play baseball :p You play that corny Cricket game instead :cool:
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Why is it called Miss Universe when only the girls from Earth compete?
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Originally posted by Gixer
How come it's called the World Serries, and the winners refered to as world champions when it's only the US in it?
Edit: Just realised you're a Kiwi, Canada also has a team in MLB.
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How come it's called the World Serries, and the winners refered to as world champions when it's only the US in it?
Because the rest of the world is beneath notice.. crawl back under your rock now.
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Originally posted by Steve
Because the rest of the world is beneath notice.. crawl back under your rock now.
Gosh I'm getting tired of saying this, $500 billion trade deficit last year. You should be thank the world for it's charity. :D
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Gosh I'm getting tired of saying this, $500 billion trade deficit last year. You should be thank the world for it's charity. :D
Isn't it kinda the other way around? The US is buying all the world's crap. They should thank us :)
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The best thing about the trade deficit is that we are getting goods and services from other nations in exchange for paper.
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Originally posted by NUKE
The best thing about the trade deficit is that we are getting goods and services from other nations in exchange for paper.
Heheh >< that close to getting me. ;)
Short term, it's great raises standard of living. Long term your manufactuing, industrial and intellectual bases gets exported, that isn't good. And bad things happen if anyone or group of anyones decide to call in the debt.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Isn't it kinda the other way around? The US is buying all the world's crap. They should thank us :)
Well, they could always just burn the stuff and it would have the same effect on thier economy as giving it away for free, plus not shipping costs. ;)
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Heheh >< that close to getting me. ;)
And bad things happen if anyone or group of anyones decide to call in the debt.
That's the beauty of it all Thrawn....we are the golden goose. Any country that thinks they can "call" us on the debt ( seperate issue than trade deficit) will be cutting their own neck.
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Originally posted by NUKE
That's the beauty of it all Thrawn....we are the golden goose.
Why? Because you take their products off their hands instead of them just buring them? That doesn't do their economies any good. The government has to buy those USDs off the exporters. And how does the government get that money? Taxes.
The government could just simply give the money directly to the exporters and there would be no net effect on the local economy.
Any country that thinks they can "call" us on the debt ( seperate issue than trade deficit) will be cutting their own neck.
Yeah, Iraq tried to change one of ther reserve funds into Euros and look what happened to them. But how many wars can US fight.
I notice your are ignoring the morallity of the situation though. The US dug it's own hole here. The USDs in the central banks vaults are promisary notes. What would you think of someone that wrote you a massive IOU and then told you to go **** yourself and maybe took your house as well? Would they be in the wrong or in the right?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Why? Because you take their products off their hands instead of them just buring them?
Huh?
Why would they use resources to make a product if they couldn't sell it? Are you saying that a country's products are worthless and they could just as soon burn them than sell them to the US for paper?
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Originally posted by NUKE
Huh?
Why would they use resources to make a product if they couldn't sell it?
Two main reasons.
1. Lobbiest from the export sector and unions of the exporting country say that if they don't make the products and exchange them pieces of paper people will get laid off and that's bad.
2. US economists and succeeding governments have been putting forth the idea that exports are inherantly benefitial to an economy for decades. However the US doesn't practice this itself, we can tell by the trade deficit.
Are you saying that a country's products are worthless and they could just as soon burn them than sell them to the US for paper?
The products only have as much value as you can get for them.
I'm going to use an exaggerated example to make my point. For these purposes all national currencies have the same exchange rate. Let's say...
-Taiwan has only one product, computer chips.
-Canada has only one product, lumber
-Taiwan and Canada has balanced trade.
-Taiwan trades $1000 worth of chips for $1000 worth of lumber.
-Both the Canada and Taiwan have gotten $1000 worth of value for their exports.
-Taiwan has only one product, computer chips.
-The US has only one product, oranges
-The US has a trade deficit with Taiwan.
-Taiwan trades $1000 worth of chips for $600 worth of oranges, the remaining $400 are printed off increasing the amount of USD in circulation by the Fed as promisary notes that in the future Taiwan will get the rest of the $400 worth of oranges.
-Taiwan ends up with $600 worth of oranges now and $400 USD.
-US ends up with $1000 worth of chiips.
The Taiwanese exporter is sitting there with $400 USD that he can't use, he lives in Taiwan and needs to pay his creditors, investors and employees with Taiwanese dollars. So the government taxes the citizens and buys the USDs off the exporter.
Now the Taiwanese government has $400 in USDs and decides they want to buy some more oranges. The US government says, "Don't do that! If you do that they will go back into circulation, USD will fall in value and your exports sector will be more expensive for us to buy. And remember exports are a good thing.". And Taiwans export sector and unions say, "Yeah, yeah!".
Next year, same thing happens and these USDs sit there in the Taiwanese central bank growing and growing. What's more their is no incentive in for people in the US to invest in a computer chip factory because the US is getting $400 dollars worth for free, so how are they supposed to compete with free chips. If there was a chip manufacture in the US they would go under, because how can you compete with free chips? Not very good in the long term.
So in the end.
-Taiwan has $600 worth of oranges, and pieces of paper they can't use.
Why not just burn them?
-A Taiwanese exporter has only one product, computer chips.
-The US has only one product, oranges, and has no chips.
-Taiwan trades $600 worth of chips for $600 worth of oranges.
-The Taiwanese government taxes it citizens, buys $400 dollars worth of oranges from the exporter and burns them.
-Taiwan ends up with $600 worth of oranges.
-US ends up with $600 worth of chiips.
What happens if Taiwan ignores the lobbies, unions and US government and buys more oranges anyway?
-Say that the trade deficit between the US and Taiwan has gone on for 10 years.
-Taiwan has $4000 USD in it's central bank.
-Taiwan buys $4000 worth of oranges from the US.
Effects in the US.
-The prices of oranges skyrockets in the US.
-The price of everything else goes up because of influx of USDs into circulation (inflation).
-US can't afford any more computer chips because of falling dollar.
-US standard of living falls.
Effects in Taiwan.
-Lots of cheap oranges on the market.
-Chip exporters go out of business (which is good because they were living off the tax payers anyways.).
-Taxes go down (because you don't have to pay the chip exporters anymore).
-More labour available for sectors that actually help the country.
-Taiwanese standard of living goes up.
To sum it up, "There is no such thing as a free lunch".
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Originally posted by Nash
Four more years. (http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov) :rolleyes:
yea? so what?
I would be equally unimpressed with your eyerolling if it were a Kerry video of him doing the same thing
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let me explane "debt"
if you owe the bank $100,000, the bank own's you.
if you owe the bank $100,000,000, you own the bank, they canot let you default.
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Originally posted by Nash
Four more years. (http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov) :rolleyes:
Look at him! He was so proud of himself!
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Originally posted by john9001
let me explane "debt"
if you owe the bank $100,000, the bank own's you.
if you owe the bank $100,000,000, you own the bank, they canot let you default.
Nope, ususally when you borrow money from a bank it's to make a one time investment in capital goods. The US now relies on the bank for a continuous influx of consumer goods that raises it's standard of living, it doesn't use the money from the bank to invest in the future.
What's more the internal economics of the banks are such that they are sustainable regardless of money owed to it by the US.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Isn't it kinda the other way around? The US is buying all the world's crap. They should thank us :)
In other words, you should thank the welfare recipients for spending your money. ;)
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Someone just made this arguement on another board.
"China has quite a few weapons in it's inventory.
Step 1 - China stops buying $120 bilion dollars a year and loaning them right back to us. The $120 bil. worth of yuan they used to buy dollars to support their exports they just keep paying directly to the same exporters and thus avoid immediate labor dislocation.
US dollar drops, US interest rates rise, the cost of imports increases.
Step 2. China starts getting rid of their dollar reserves - $700 billion or so. They can buy other currencies, commodities, stuff for their infrastructure, consumer goods for their population, whatever.
US dollar plummets, US interest rates skyrocket, imports become unaffordable.
Step 3. Other countries rush to get rid of their dollar holdings. Private individuals abroad rush to dump their dollars. Few trillions of dollars get dumped - into US economy or wherever they fall. Hyperinflation.
US dollar is not treated as money. No dollar loans are made at any rates. US monetary system breaks down, trade and division of labor along with it. US economy stops dead.
What was that the founding fathers were saying about indebtedness being analogous to enslavement? Better read up lest you be surprised by the behavior of the government. They have good reasons."
Who owns who?
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Hows your take on the rest of the worlds state when the U.S. economy tanks in that arguement?
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Thrawn must me miko's shade account.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Why? Because you take their products off their hands instead of them just buring them? That doesn't do their economies any good. The government has to buy those USDs off the exporters. And how does the government get that money? Taxes.
The government could just simply give the money directly to the exporters and there would be no net effect on the local economy.
Yeah, Iraq tried to change one of ther reserve funds into Euros and look what happened to them. But how many wars can US fight.
I notice your are ignoring the morallity of the situation though. The US dug it's own hole here. The USDs in the central banks vaults are promisary notes. What would you think of someone that wrote you a massive IOU and then told you to go **** yourself and maybe took your house as well? Would they be in the wrong or in the right?
Man, we really need Miko2D to weigh in on this. Sometimes I miss that guy.;)
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
Thrawn must me miko's shade account.
No, just strongly influenced by his arguements and literature he has directed me to.
"Hows your take on the rest of the worlds state when the U.S. economy tanks in that arguement?"
The world will be $500 billion a year richer. There will be social problems as the labourers that produce exports to the US are reabsorbed into other sectors. It will probably hurt Canada the most.
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Originally posted by slimm50
Man, we really need Miko2D to weigh in on this. Sometimes I miss that guy.;)
He's the guy I got the China statement from.
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Originally posted by slimm50
Man, we really need Miko2D to weigh in on this. Sometimes I miss that guy.;)
He had very interesting political and economic views. Unfortunantly they must have been too extreme. Oh well, go against the administration and you get imprisioned.
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Does anyone have any numbers on what country exports the most?
Also which country imports the most?
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Originally posted by soda72
Does anyone have any numbers on what country exports the most?
Also which country imports the most?
Export the most?
It depends on what you are reffering to... Oil.. Forrest.. etc... etc..
I dont think you will find a country that exports the "most" in regard to the "big picture" of things.
Cars... Erasors... Computers.. etc..
It aint that simple..
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Nope just looking for totals....
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Ehehe
Keep on looking mate.
Thats the charm of the world. Different countrys export different things...
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Originally posted by soda72
Does anyone have any numbers on what country exports the most?
Also which country imports the most?
Imports.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/imports_2003_0.html
Exports.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/exports_2003_0.html
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So your saying countries don't keep stats "money wise" on what they export?
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thanks thrawn
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if America fell, the world would follow ...
... it will NEVER happen
our military is too big :)
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Originally posted by soda72
So your saying countries don't keep stats "money wise" on what they export?
Didnt really catch that because im intoxicated... "money wise"
But let me become deep on you. What includes export? Does Music include exports?
On that list that Thrawn posted Sweden does AOK for being 9 Mil ppl...
But what the hell does that prov`?
Nothing...
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That site is F-UP.
Sweden lists before Saudi Arabia....
LoL!
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Without reading the thread I am just amazed at change in subject from baseball to trade defecits. Does this thread win the non-sequitur award?
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Originally posted by Eagler
if America fell, the world would follow ...
... it will NEVER happen
our military is too big :)
So what, if the US economy failed because it choose to take and take and take the US military is going to help how?
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Originally posted by Steve
Because the rest of the world is beneath notice.. crawl back under your rock now.
Are you ever able to post a reply without making a personal remark? Rather immature don't you think?
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Without reading the thread I am just amazed at change in subject from baseball to trade defecits. Does this thread win the non-sequitur award?
Midnight, meet Thrawn...Thrawm, meet Midnight.
Baseball, space exploration....you name it. Thrawn's hate of America has few limits.
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Yeah, Thrawn is a real c u n t.
-SW
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And if you don't believe LePaul, MiniD will be along any second to tell you just how. :D
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Originally posted by Thrawn
So what, if the US economy failed because it choose to take and take and take the US military is going to help how?
you said it
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LOL...look, Im just saying, Thrawn stated a while back, I think on my forums, maybe here, he has this *thing* about us down here in the United States.
Its fine to have an admitted bias. But in every politial thread, or any thread as of late, in his view, its always the bad Americans. We're bad because of our medical system, our financials, our military, yada yada yada...I could go on. At some point, I just tune most of what he says out when he gets into these rants.
I like Thrawn, he's been a regular poster on my forum and I think he's a good guy overall. But yeeesh, Im a bit weary of America being to source of all evil as he sees it.
;) :)
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Originally posted by LePaul
But yeeesh, Im a bit weary of America being to source of all evil as he sees it. ;) :)
Change begins from within. :)
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Originally posted by LePaul
But yeeesh, Im a bit weary of America being to source of all evil as he sees it.
;) :)
I have a huge bug up my butt about this economics thing. That and illegal immigration are the biggests threats to Americans and their way of life, even more than terrorism. And notice that neither Bush nor Kerry spent two seconds discussing it.
Vote LP.
Eagler,
"you said it"
I don't understand what you mean.
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Fiber, Thrawn, eat lots of fiber :aok
I do vote, never missed an election yet :)
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Originally posted by LePaul
I do vote, never missed an election yet :)
I meant vote Libertarian Party. :D
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Things appear to be moving much more rapidly than I would ever imagined.
"Dollar expected to fall amid China's rumoured selling
By Steve Johnson in London and Andrew Balls in Washington
Published: November 7 2004 19:43 | Last updated: November 7 2004 19:43
The dollar could slide still further, in spite of hitting an all-time low against the euro last week in the wake of George W. Bush's re-election, currency traders have said.
The dollar sell-off has resumed amid fears among traders that Mr Bush's victory will bring four more years of widening US budget and current account deficits, heightened geopolitical risks and a policy of "benign neglect" of the dollar.
Many currency traders were taken aback on Friday when the greenback fell in spite of bullish data showing the US economy created 337,000 jobs in October.
"If this can't cause the dollar to strengthen you have to tell me what will. This is a big green light to sell the dollar," said David Bloom, currency analyst at HSBC, as the greenback fell to a nine-year low in trade-weighted terms.
The dollar's fall comes as the Federal Reserve is widely expected to raise US interest rates by a quarter point to 2 per cent when it meets on Wednesday and to signal that it will continue with a measured pace of rate increases.
Speculative traders in Chicago last week racked up the highest number of long-euro, short-dollar contracts on record. Options traders have reported brisk business in euro calls - contracts to buy the euro at a pre-determined rate.
However, the market has been rife with rumours that the latest wave of selling has been led by foreign governments seeking to cut their exposure to US assets.
India and Russia have reportedly been selling US assets, as well as petrodollar-rich Middle Eastern investors.
China, which has $515bn of reserves, was also said to be selling dollars and buying Asian currencies in readiness to switch the renminbi's dollar peg to a basket arrangement, something Chinese officials have increasingly hinted at. Any re-allocation could push the dollar sharply lower and Treasury yields markedly higher."
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/257979a6-30f4-11d9-a595-00000e2511c8.html
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The ultimate irony is that, Ripsnort was right. Have a stock pile of goods. Buy a generator. Have access to a well...please.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
The ultimate irony is that, Ripsnort was right. Have a stock pile of goods. Buy a generator. Have access to a well...please.
Actually, the dropping dollar allows other to buy our goods cheaper. Quote from Europe regarding the falling dollar:
"On Monday, European Central Bank head Jean-Claude Trichet described the euro's soaring value against the dollar as "brutal" and unwelcome. "