Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Ash on July 14, 2000, 10:41:00 AM
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It's my understanding that the prop pitch controls are now activated and will affect the performance of your AC. Can someone explain the dynamics and how pp affects my performance. My main reason for this questions is to maximize my "Hang Time" during a hammer head in my G10. Would changing the pitch allow me to stay up a little longer?
Thanks in Advance,
Old Ash
I./JG2
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Set the prop to maximum RPM for combat, takeoff, and landings. That will produce maximum thrust. Lower RPM settings are to maximize fuel economy for long range cruising.
I'm not sure how it works in AH, but I'd guess that low RPM, and just enough throttle to maintain level flight at the "best climb" airspeed, will produce the best fuel economy.
I have also read that low RPM will maximize glide in AH, but haven't tried that.
popeye
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Ash,
I cruise at 20k a lot in 190A5 & have found that 20 to 25 RPM and about 40 man will take you a LONG ways!
Keypad + * - to control RPM. Also a tip, anytime you hit wep, it automaticly sets rpm back to full. Exceptions being the A6m & Yak of course.
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The prop pitch is the angle the propeller blades meet the air. The more ortogonal the blades meet the air, the more lift (thrust) they produce, but at the same time their drag is increased as well. If the blades was parallel to the airflow they would produces little lift (thrust), but also little drag.
Most planes in WWII used a constant speed propeller which would maintain the same ammount of rotational speed no matter how much power was open up. The way this was accomplished was by changing the prop pitch so the blades would be more ortogonal to the wind (this was done automatically and is too in the game) and that way increase the thrust when more power came from the engine .
The idea of economical flight is to find the spot where the thrust from the proppelers is biggest compared to the drag the blades create. This was something the pilot would control himself and also so in the game (Numpad - and +).
Now when engine is stopped there is no need to let the proppelers keep turning as they only produces drag. Therefore the pitch is changed to as much parrallel to the wind as possible (Numpad -), making them turn slow.
As for the use of changing pitch in the zoom climb in the G10 I would say that it has little use. The main force slowing the plane in such a situation is gravity, and the little gain achieved by reducing drag is negleted by the loss of thrust.
However what is a good idea in the manovuer is to reduce the throttle at the top of the hammer head. This may seem odd, but the 109G10 has a nasty torque that would be more than happy to take over the control of your plane as it slows down at the top of the manouver. By reducing throttle you will be able to control your hammerhead yaw much better, instead of turing into a spinner hanging in the prop.
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"Head-ons are for pilots that don't know what their next move should be"
Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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Lt Snefens
May I suggest you change your sign off quote to:
'Head ons are for those wanting to get out of Dodge.'
Your quote might win a few beers at the bar for its 'pithiness', but it is way too simplistic.
BFM was not designed as an airshow...the point is to get into a firing position as quick as possible and then get away without getting shot yourself.
In the context of the sim, if you don't like the gameplay aspects of a HO, fine...just don't make it sound so authoritative when you pass along your one-liners.
Andy
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And remember, Snefens, Andy Bush's opinion is just that, one man's opinion. I say keep it as is.
No offense, Andy Bush.
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Andy,
To clear things up I consider the HO's the situation where both planes have had the guns pointed at each other for some seconds, that be either in the vertical or horizontal, and not the snapshot you get in for instance in a two-circled turning where you get around faster and shoots before the enemy can. Thats what I call a front aspect shot.
BFM was not designed as an airshow...the point is to get into a firing position as quick as possible and then get away without getting shot yourself.
You can practise HO's and get so good that you take the enemy down a fair ammount of the times, but that doesn't take away the point that he DO gets to take a shot at you too.
In the context of the sim, if you don't like the gameplay aspects of a HO, fine...just don't make it sound so authoritative when you pass along your one-liners.
I have nothing against the HO aspect of the game and I don't try to raise myself above all other pilots with the quote, saying they are idiots if they do it.
I do my fair share of HO's too, but basically just when things turn against me. That is, multiple bandits, to damaged to get other than just that one shot, the enemy wasting his advantage to come right at me or sometimes just when I rush in with my head under my arm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Thx Leonid, I will.
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"Head-ons are for pilots that don't know what their next move should be, as they have their mind on the free beer that awaits them back at the pub"
Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
[This message has been edited by LLv34_Snefens (edited 07-16-2000).]
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Lt Snefens
LOL!!
Good post! I like the revised last line...now if I had only remembered to do that more often!
That was a well written reply...good reasoning without any ego pretentiousness to go with it.
Andy
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LOL...about HOs...
I do them. When I am at a gross disadvantage (agaisnt multiple cons, or when my E is seriously lacking).
I die to that kind of HOs a lot of times when attacking lower E cons... and I give a big S! to those who kill me that way because, bassically I have blewed my attack while they, being in a less E situation, survived by the only move at their hand.
Said that, I know some guys here...specially one (no names,he will know that I am speaking of him) that in his Hog-C comes from 10K avobe his preys and all he does is to do a vertical headon. If you meet him co-E he doesnt merge...he shoots (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). Lacking as he is in ACM he will always come from 25K in his blue turbolaser hog to HO all the world, and when I accepted the vertical HO (I strictly respawned to kill him by his own means) with a Mk108 in my 109G6 then he shouted that I was warping. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(bad luck guy I had ping plotter running and my connection was perfect at the moment (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) lier! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
Differences between the first example and the second?...in the first I salute the guy, in the second I laugh at his HOs. Of course that pisses him a lot,but well thats the way life is (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-16-2000).]
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Leonid
None taken.
After all, opinions are like 'you know what'...we all have them!
Having said that, with regard to BFM, there are educated opinions and then there are opinions from folks that shoot from the hip just to sound 'cool'. I saw plenty of this in my RL fighter career...someone was always too ready to impress his buddies with some 'off the wall' tactic or maneuver...too often, this was a case of 'one-upsmanship' at the bar.
We used to have a saying in RL..."BS will do for skill, but not consistently!".
A smart pilot chooses his attack type to get in and out with max effect and least exposure to danger. The simple fact of the matter is that the HO is just as tactically appropriate and viable as any other form of attack.
Anyone who makes blanket statements to the contrary is just blowing smoke.
Andy
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"BS will do for skill, but not consistently!"
I like that one, maybe I should start using that as my sig. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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"Head-ons are for pilots that don't know what their next move should be"
Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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Popeye, Ghosth, and Snefens,
Thanks for your help. I'll play around with the settings and see what works.
Andy, next time please resolve your personal agenda with an email, and not on my post for information. Thank you.
OTR,
Ash
III./JG2
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Sorry, Ash...
It's hard for me to stop being the BFM Police!
Andy
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Ash
Interested in your post but I haven't found how you separate Prop pitch from power setting. The throttle is on my stick and people have said that the pitch is on the + and - keys but they seem to have the same effect as the throttle. As I understand it if I set say 30 inches of Manifold Press then the RPM would be adjustable by prop pitch (thats the constant speed bit).
Example:-
1.Set 25 ins MP, at full coarse. Decrease prop pitch should increase RPM but MP should stay the same untill prop is full fine.
2.Set 25 ins MP, at 50%fine pitch setting - increasing throttle should increase MP but RPM should stay the same untill prop at full coarse.
Is my understanding of this correct??
If it is what visual indication do you have of your pitch setting as we have no prop pitch lever in the cockpit?
Confused ...... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif)
[This message has been edited by Sparks (edited 07-18-2000).]
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Andy,
Np! I understand :-). Thanks.
OTR
Ash
III./JG2
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Sparks, look for the RPM Gauge. Ussually next to Man gauge.
True we do not have pitch lever that I've seen.
(I'm busy learning most of this stuff same as you guys. Trying hard to stay half a jump ahead)
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I played with the pitch and RPMs last night for awhile. At 25K, I chopped my MP to 25 in, then varied my prop pitch to maintain 225 mph. I think pp was approx. 22 rpm. I was able to keep my G10 in the air for what seems to be a much greater time than usual < was hunting Buffs w/DT >. I'll do some more testing later this week and I'll keep you posted.
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Ghosth -
Done some offline testing myself now and see it is working as I would expect - will definitely help cruise performance but will have to be carefull to go fully fine before engaging in combat.
I wonder what the best setting for diving is ??
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So, for fuel conservation, should one adjust BOTH RPM and MP? Or just RPM?
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My initial testing indicates using both for cruising and fuel economy. I would think adjusting just your MP will be more effective than just adjusting PP. Combine the both and I think you can get some "legs". I also read somewhere that IJN pilots set some tremendous distance records before the war by varing just PP and MP.
OTR,
Ash
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Rip,
One should adjust both for fuel savings. In the Hog I set at about 21-2200 RPM and 30-35 MAN for best savings. I fiddle with it until she will stay level but just above the speed she wants to nose down. And can fly forever on those settings (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Remember you just have to play with it a bit at different speeds and alt. The MAN and RPM will vary and will vary with loadout options (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
S!
Rocket
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Thanks Rrrrrrocket! Ash!
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I've noticed that settings also vary a lot from plane to plane.
What works fine for the 190A5 (can maintain 300 TAS easily)seems to leave the Yak stalling out.
I suspect that altitude plays a part as well.
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Rip
Done more experimenting - you definitely need to adjust both for cruise or descent but it depends on altitude and to an extent on your current airspeed.
For example I flew a Spit at about 220 kts and got it level - set MP to about 35 (if I remember and coarsened the prop off to reduce RPM to about 2000. Airspeed didn't change - if anything started to fall. However did the same thing from 280 kts and it climbed to 285. Lesson is airspeed will impact the effiency of the prop to produce thrust beecause as airspeed increases the angle of attack of the prop blade to the airflow decreases - so if you make the prop pitch too coarse too slow then the blade will approach the stall and become less efficient and thrust will fall.
From what I've tried it appears to work very close to RL in that you choose a coarser pitch (lower RPM) the faster you go and go to fine for climbing and slow speed.
I would be interested to know if anyone has done any acceleration comparisons for a shallow dive condition say from 300kts and above to see if pays to coarsen the prop off a bit as you dive away to break off.