Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: eye on April 14, 2000, 01:05:00 AM
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I am haveing problems getting 3 or 4 kill missions. If anyone could post their tactics on how to get them it would be greatly apreciated. I fly spit mk 9 and 109's mostly.
Ammo's not usualy a problem but fuel is. Thanks
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If ammo is not the problem, then you should carry drop tanks. If you are confident enough to get at least 1-2 kills a mission, then you obviously just need the time at station to get kills. Set your main tanks for half to 3/4's, then climb using DT's.
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Hi eye.....
I see we live not far from each other.....
Multiple kills......hmmmmm.....
Well, although I'm just an mediocre virtual pilot, I usually get at least 1 kill for every 2 runs as an average, with some nights better than others. I have had particularly great luck with triple kill runs using a P51. I think I've had 4 four of them in last few weeks.
I follow two simple rules when flying:
1. "Speed is Life, Altitude is Might"
...I mutter that over and over again to myself as I fly around arena
2. I always fight an enemy on "My Terms, My Time and My Ground".
... phrase originally attributed (not verified historically) to Napoleon, but often mentioned and restated by Adolf Galland and Erich Hartmann.
...too bad Napoleon broke his own rule about "ground" when he permitted Wellington's Adjutant to pick "Waterloo" as the place of battle in 1815. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I have found these have always worked for me and provide a foundation for maintaining good SA as well as the ability to disengage if I get in real deep ca ca. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hope this helps...
Regards,
Badger
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I fought a defensive fight tonight two 2 kill missions and a 3. Made a big difference thx. How do you guys decide when its ok to attack when there's a guy higher than you? It seems i waste time alting when i could dive in ? You can see the enemy so far away here its tough to time it right.
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IF you want to fly to live, you don't ever attack a higher enemy unless you have no other choice (ie he attacks you).
Extend if you can, grab and come back later with more alt. If not run to friends, or ack if possible.
Dicta Verm: Never engage with an advantage! Carpe Jugulum!
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Patience, discipline.
Badger--good formula.
Failure to assess the situation before commiting. Knowing when to bug out and when to push the attack. Avoiding large furballs is advisable (even though they are fun).
Know the strengths and weaknesses of ALL the AC. Being a great pilot takes alot of effort. (dont get me wrong--im not one)
Then again you can have a happy mix and just have fun--depends on whats fun for you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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AMMO
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
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here is a good way to learn (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
.join Torque
.join Fariz
.join Citabria
.join Weazel
.dont join Dogftr (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Im going to have to heed my own advice soon and ask to join some of these guys to learn some more. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
(http://members.home.net/1baddawg/Sims/dog-bite.gif)
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Ammo is too modest by half! The student has long since surpassed the teacher.
Just watch that 109 stuff Ammo, Nasty planes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Thx for tips guys. Just went 50/50 tonight. Oh well fought over red territory all night. My fault. Gas always is the limiting factor. I always have too much or not enough. Flying with 100 % + drop anyone have a tip on when to drop or when to conserve fuel?
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Depends on what you fly. In the short legged birds you always have to go full. In a Mustang, half a tank is more than enough with full drops. You do have to be mindful of the fuel when you engage no matter what you are flying. It is a lot to think about, but that's what makes it great, eh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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yea if you aint got avantage run like hell (coward strat) . grab a hog and point in general direction of enemy easy 3 kills.
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Eye, I typically take 50% fuel and a drop tank in the Spit IX. I find this allows me plenty of fuel to the target, then usually enough to mix it up, do some damage, and egress if needed.
Then again, I never really plan for a return trip, so maybe 75% would work better. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-- Todd/DMF
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Don't get too concerned about your kills per sortie. I used to get fustrated that i'd see playerX got 50kills or whatever in the text buffer, but you have to realise that alot (not all - cause there are some REAL good pilots here) of those mega-kill sorties are from vultchin. This has been reduced with closable feilds. I have noticed a reduction in mega-kill sorties in the last week or so. It's pretty easy to rack up kills from vultchin feilds. Im not saying vultchin is bad. The advice above about only attacking when you have the advantage is a similar situation to vultchin (vultchin is such a bad word) You, the vultcher, have the advantage over the vultchee. Fundamentally there is little difference between you comming down from 5K to a plane thats just got up to 1K or so and the same situation plus 10k.
I'm finding, while the spit is easy to get kills in its also easy to be killed in. If you get into trouble (which happens alot more than most want to admit) you have NO option in a spit except to try out-turn em, when there's more than one your at a severe disadvantage. If you fly B&Z (boom and zoom) in a pony, 38, f4u, then if you get into the sh*te then you can at least run away and come back when you have the alt advantage again. In a spit you dont have that option.
I think someone else mentioned it - its not the kills its how many times you make it home - which translates to kills/death.
If you get 10 kills over 50 missions and dont die thats a 10:1 kill to death ratio - and thats impressive.
Some will call you a coward for running - not true, it shows experience and a survival instinct.
mY 2 cENTS
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Supreme Mega-Overlord Spatula
"...perfect for serving"
(http://www.spatula.co.nz/aceshigh/spatula_sig1.jpg)
=357th Pony Express=
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 04-17-2000).]
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Originally posted by Spatula:
Some will call you a coward for running - not true, it shows experience and a survival instinct.
Nonsense. The only thing it shows is that you fly to live... you indeed have a "survival instinct." It has nothing to do with experience.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing those who fly to live. If that's how you get the most enjoyment out of Aces High, then more power to ya. However, for some experience teaches us that flying to live only matters in real life. Since this isn't real life, flying to have *fun* matters more. If flying to live *is* fun to you, then knock yourself out. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The key is really to find out what makes you happy and to do it.
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Nonsense. The only thing it shows is that you fly to live... -- Todd/DMF
It shows expirience. If someone in the bad situation turns away that means he will be tough when/if you will catch him.
Fariz
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Originally posted by Fariz:
It shows expirience. If someone in the bad situation turns away that means he will be tough when/if you will catch him.
Fariz
What Fariz said. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Tern
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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"There I was, inverted at 50 feet and 120 kts. and the only thing running was the radio."
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If my memory does not fail me, I remember back around WB 2.01 or so, the "Joe Average" had a K/D ratio of .98. So, if your K/D ratio is anything higher than that, you're a pretty good dogfighter.
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hi, have something to say.
first:
its's very good to get a 3 or 4 kill sortie in a 109.
i'm ONLY flying 109g10 and i'm:
pleased to land with NO kill,
happy to land with 1 kill,
very happy to land a 2 kill sortie
..all above 2 kills in my 109 is TOP for me.
got some 3 kill sorties and 2 or 3 4kill sorties, then my ammo is usually out.
btw i'm flying the 109 with 30mm in clean
configuration.
had lot's of "enemies" shouting through radio
"come back 109" or "another 109 running".
I'm flying VERY carefull because i want to fly realistic. surviving is everything.
i will not turn back, when i have a lvl spit
or anything else 0-6k behind be.
i don't understand the pilots, diving from
25k into an enemy furball to the lowest of
the cons, only to be kill from the cons higher friends.
i'll watch the enemy, and when one "sheep" is
to far from "mother" i'll attack.
that's my way of flying.....
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(http://saintaw.tripod.com/109habicht.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
BOOMING SPITS DOWN IN FLAMES SINCE 1997
[This message has been edited by HABICHT (edited 04-17-2000).]
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Eye,
I think it's all a matter of perspective, if your goal is to maximize your "score" I'd say the following apply:
1) circle your field a couple times on take off...old advice from "bug" in AW but still true, you'll end up with an alt edge over those guys who fly right to action (of course plane type etc matter)
2) Don't chase cripples down, get one good burst and let em go if you need to but keep your alt and options.
3) fly with a wing
4) dont fly in sectors where your outnumbered badly.
Of course I dont do any of the above ...and it shows (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
I still think if you have a good connect and can handle the plane that the G10 with the 30mm is the best ride in the game. you can't run from it or climb from it and 1 tickle from the 30mm usually does it.
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Originally posted by Fariz:
It shows expirience. If someone in the bad situation turns away that means he will be tough when/if you will catch him.
I still fail to see how skill and/or experience somehow translate into running from a fight. One could just as well demonstrate experience/ability by diving into bad odds and either walking away from it or succumbing only after taking a large number of them down.
Ultimately success is a measure in the eye of the beholder. I'd rather have one or two kills mixing it up in impossible odds than running from those odds until I have some sort of advantage. To me, that's not fun. If kills and kills alone are the measure by which you gauge success, your rules of engagement will differ.
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
I still fail to see how skill and/or experience somehow translate into running from a fight. One could just as well demonstrate experience/ability by diving into bad odds and either walking away from it or succumbing only after taking a large number of them down.
-- Todd/DMF
Todd-- Part of that experience isnt just how well you coax your AC into manuevering--it is also knowing WHEN and WHEN not to dive in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Pick and choosing your fights on your terms.
To the person who wants to fly to live this is the way they think. Hartman, galland, Baders, etc.... all lived throught the war and were extremely successfull becuase they were not only Great sticks--they applied the same philosophy.
reguards---ammo
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Originally posted by -ammo-:
Todd-- Part of that experience isnt just how well you coax your AC into manuevering--it is also knowing WHEN and WHEN not to dive in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Pick and choosing your fights on your terms.
To the person who wants to fly to live this is the way they think. Hartman, galland, Baders, etc.... all lived throught the war and were extremely successfull becuase they were not only Great sticks--they applied the same philosophy.
The important distinction to make here is that Aces High is an air combat sim using WW2 aircraft, but it is NOT a WW2 simulator. Of course Bader, Hartman, Galland, etc. flew to live and did an exceptional job of it; they did so out of necessity. Beyond achieving one's mission objectives, preserving one's life was the primary objective of WW2 fighter pilots. In Aces High, where we have infinite lives, flying to live is but one of many possible goals.
If we're going to use historic examples of fighter aces, we should likewise simulate the conditions under which they flew. To that end, all Luftwaffe aircraft should be outnumbered 10 to 1, they should be forced to fly using fuel of substantially lower quality than their Allied counterparts, and death should be permanent for all players.
That doesn't sound incredibly fun to me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Again, I was not attacking those who fly to live in my previous posts. That's a perfectly valid style with its own strengths and weaknesses. I understand the motivations for flying this way. However, it's important to realize that those who do not share this philosophy do not in some way lack experience or skill. Rather, they apply their experience and skill differently.
You'll also note that I never mentioned that I would just blow all advantages. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If I have alt over five lower bandits, I'm surely going to use it to my advantage as much as possible. Where I differ philosophically from someone who flies to live is that once I lose that advantage I feel no inclination to run until I can gain it again. I'll continue to fly and do the best that I can until either every enemy dies or I do.
-- Todd/DMF
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DMF,
The great thing about AH is there is room for all of us. Personally, I view my lack of patience,planning,SA and gunnery as shortcomings I can live with...after all they do give me new planes to wreck (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). I happen to have flown against EYE often in AW and never found fault with his desire/methods. We had many fine encounters (usually with EYE dropping on my prettythang from 5k up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)))..the bottom line is he was a good e fighter then and now..and you need to finish what you start..which he did..too often from my point of view.
My 2 cents is simple..the score that counts is the one you keep yourself. For me, you and Jase the two best sticks I've had the pleasure mix it up with..I count a ping on either of you up there with any multikill mission I ever had (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
As you I and i discussed once not a long time ago...there are some guys you really don't want to catch (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by humble (edited 04-17-2000).]
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing those who fly to live. If that's how you get the most enjoyment out of Aces High, then more power to ya. However, for some experience teaches us that flying to live only matters in real life. Since this isn't real life, flying to have *fun* matters more. If flying to live *is* fun to you, then knock yourself out. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The key is really to find out what makes you happy and to do it.
-- Todd/DMF
Your quite right this isn't real life, nor am i approaching it as such.
To me having 'fun' is about conquering challenges, finding new ones when you have mastered old ones etc. So to this end, landing my Pony/P-38/spit/la-5 whatever after X kills (be that zero or 50) is a challenge to me. Therefore, my priority is to get home 'alive' because this is the challenge. This will mean running from bad odds if i can.
I can take a spit up and chalk up 5-6 kills fairly easy, but i normally end up dead cause it cant run if it needs to. That's what i've been doing over the last 8 months, and this is less of a challenge for me.
We are all here to have fun, and as you said well: "flying to have *fun* matters more". But fun does take different forms for different people.
Spat (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Supreme Mega-Overlord Spatula
"...perfect for serving"
(http://www.spatula.co.nz/aceshigh/spatula_sig1.jpg)
=357th Pony Express=
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 04-17-2000).]
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Thank you everyone! Lots of nice tips. Its helped me already. Happy Hunting
EYE
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IMO DMF is more right about more players than you realize. If everyone in the arena flew with such patience, only fought with advantage and ran when the fight tainted against them.
Well...
Then there would be alot less combat in the simulated skies. It would be very boring. Everyone trying to get advantage, and running at the first hint of not having it.
This is what the players with patience use against those without it. Keep this in mind. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I believe it was Galland himself that said "Don't turn to engage, turn only to kill".
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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Originally posted by Spatula:
We are all here to have fun, and as you said well: "flying to have *fun* matters more". But fun does take different forms for different people.
Exactly! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-- Todd/DMF
[This message has been edited by Dead Man Flying (edited 04-18-2000).]
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Ive been on a hot streak since this post. Multies coming easier the last week. One thing i found out is the importance of not flying around mountain areas. I have been looking for areas where the bases are on flat areas. The fights are lower. There are more chases at low alt. That combined with flying on my side of the lines has made the difference. Hope this helps someone.
Thanks again all.
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I like to play different styles. "Flying to live" is great fun, and protecting a streak is a gas (note to scoremakers: give us a "Current/Longest Streak column); So is just jumping in an mixing it up. I love taking a fast-accelerating plane like the La-5 and inviting the high-bounces: Sooner or later one of us will make a mistake: If I do, I'm dead; if he does, I've got the advantage.
The big problem is that the two styles are not 100% compatible. The "Furball dweeb" will latch onto the six of a "pro-lifer" at 25k and follow the guy down to the deck, into a storm of cons, and ignoring the fact that he's just committed suicide, merrily wax the other guy.
OTOH, the "pro-lifer" will disengage from a festive fight because he spots a con coming in from 4 miles out.
My advice? Just take it easy, and taunt each other on channel 100.
Dinger
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Dive into that furball and take down as many of the bastiages as ya can!!!
The only good enemy is a dead one!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
One way or the other, it always ends up as flaming wreckage!!
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Swager
I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.jpg)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 05-02-2000).]
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EYE spend less time grabbing to 30,000 feet and less time bravely running away (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
screwball (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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i think flying to live is ok but i get bored running and usually turn for ho if im chased for 5 minutes...i feel guilty leading people round the map as when it happens to me i get irritated chasing and chasing then having to go rtb for fuel...remember its a game and fun should be first priority.oh and please fly under me as much as you all possibly can then ill be happy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
fly with JG2 we dont run (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Uhm. Err. <Embarrased look>
I do.
Example; great fight over A7 yesterday was taken further north, and lots of Bad Guys(tm) got to take off and grab some alt. I was sort of winging with hristos at the time and after an initial swoop down for a kill and some dodging, we ended up on the deck. The bad guys where just outta visual range, so I took my 190 east to extend and grab alt. Hristos did the same I bbelieve. Then "hi Spit!" calls sarted floodin in and I turned back, only to hear Hristos call "CLR! RUN!". Had a little alt adv, so I said "vv" and naturally did not comply, wanting to check him out. t that poibnt he had four enemies on his six. I dive down on them and they fear Me, so all break away as I close, which was my objective. Now *I* have four enemies on me, and Hristos spots one or two Spits high in front of us that are blocking the way.
Will I run for home? YES! Will I run for home vs a bandit with alt advantage, or a co alt Spit if he starts getting an altitude advantage on me? AYE.
In some planes, you really have a hard time turning a bad situation around. I feel relatively safe in my 109G10 in a one vs one, but it ain't a MA aircraft to the same degree as the 190. The latter, otoh, is not good in 1v1's.
I try to live. But looked at my sorties record, and I have only managed to land 44 out of 81 missions (11 discoes, 10 bails, 3 ditches, one captured, 12 death, ripped wings on ahlf of them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
I think it is possible to have a "fight to live" attitude and *still* be highly aggressive. It seems I go between overly cautious (I call this the Deer Mode) and overly aggressive (Wolf Mode).
I just love this game; there are so many different styles and that ensures variation. Will this Spit run or duke it out? If I dive, will he kamikaze in after me knowing my buddies will kill him, even if he gets me?
heheh, I need to play less AH and study more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). Off to do some work, laters (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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StSanta
II/JG2