Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: VOR on October 31, 2004, 02:22:36 PM
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041031/ts_alt_afp/us_vote_bush&cid=1506&ncid=2043
Well, the promise has been thrown down on the table. Given that it was made 2 days before the election..well..a thinking man can decide for himself. If true, it's about time. But how?
Storch, I'd especially like to hear what you and other Cuban Americans think about this.
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im never posting on this board again. there watching us.
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I've no idea how Bush thinks he'll remove Castro.:confused:
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Castro is getting old, soon enough that malady known as *old age* will do him in.
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Originally posted by thrila
I've no idea how Bush thinks he'll remove Castro.:confused:
I'm wondering the same thing. I really don't know much about modern Cuba, but I assume alot has changed since the Bay of Pigs debacle.
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Sounds like Election Year babble to me....good Idea....but babble none the less. It will probably win him flordia though.
apon second thaught this is brilliant. He doesnt have to worry about being reelected after this. John Kerry's response can only be limited at best because he NEEDS florida for a solid win.
Seriously.....what can Kerry say? "I actually voted for Cuba once"????
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The Cuban American generally votes Republican. I think it's very condescending of yet another politico coming here during crunch time writing checks that can't be cashed. Mr. Bush can take those words and blow them out of his arse. He need not have made those statements. He was preaching to choir.
Here are the facts. Cuba could be liberated tomorrow and most of us (Cubans) will remain right where we are. I'm American. I own a moderately successful business, I own property. Most of us are either very well employed or are business owners, why would we leave? We are Americans. Most of the people here feel as I do. We were received into the bosom of this great and generous land by the best and most noble people on Earth. We were permitted to establish our community here and largely maintain our sense of identity. We were allowed to be Cuban during a period of great stress for our people. My dad (as a very common example of that first wave of immigration 1959-60) was a professional with his future virtually assured in international finance, married to the daughter of one the nation's prominent businessmen. My father, an educated man 31 years of age, fluent in four languages. We had the advantage of owning homes in Miami prior to the Castro revolution and the extended family was well vested in the NYSE. My dad being too proud to accept handouts from his father-in-law took a job as a milkman with Borden's Dairy, (the only employment available to him) and worked his way to an executive position with that firm. He still sees himself as Cuban. He still lives in a predominantly Cuban community. On the other hand, my children do not speak Spanish very well, my grandchildren will probably not speak it at all. That's as it should be. It has been so in past with every wave of immigration and will always be thus. The great melting pot, America. Thats what makes us so great. Out of many, one people. E pluribus Unum.
That relic of a bye gone era in power on that insignificant island is of no consequence.
The time for America to have done what needed to be done in Cuba and elsewhere passed with the 60's. Kennedy blew it by not going with Eisenhower's plan in Cuba and Vietnam. When Kennedy and the democrats stole the 1960 election through voter fraud they put into place the worst possible scenario for America in global terms. Kennedy's asassination merely compounded the problem. Johnson should have been tried for his mishandling of Vietnam. The democrats blew the war on communism globally and it wasn't rectified until the the Reagan administration. Much too late for my former people. What ever anyone may do now is unimportant.
Cuba represents a great opportunity for American business due to the tremendous amount of infrastructure that will need to be put into place and it's natural beauty will once again make it a world class travel and leisure destination. Sadly our government's policy has allowed European and Japanese conglomorates to have a huge lead in that market. I guess what I would rather hear is that the embargo has been lifted and we can go in and take over through commerce. many of the people my age agree. The guys you see on in the mainstream liberal press are a vocal minority that largely shed a bad light on the community and on the Republican party as well.
Sorry for the lengthy response to such a short question.
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Thanks Storch, that was a good read.
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Cubans should be arrested and sent home like Mexicans.
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> Storch, stories like yours make me proud to be American, and proud to have you as a fellow citizen. Great post.
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From the terrorists to freedom..
Osama who?
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Bush is president. As such, he gets to ride in Air Force One and has to promise to get rid of Castro. It's in the job description.
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Castor is one tough dude, just ask the Kennedy's...
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On the other hand, my children do not speak Spanish very well, my grandchildren will probably not speak it at all.
Yep, me being a grandchild of italian immigrants, not one word of italian spoken (well, a couple of bad ones:D )
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Originally posted by storch
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storch.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Cubans should be arrested and sent home like Mexicans.
I have a few Mexicans working for me and I could not possibly want a harder working or more respectful employee. The difference between the Cuban population and all other immigrants is that (conjecture here) Since the 2506 Brigade had established a beach head at Playa Giron in the Bay of Pigs and it's supporting elements were destroyed by Castro's P-80s and P-51s (the aerial war was 6 Douglas A26 Invaders flying from bases in Nicaragua four hours flight time away on the American supported side vs P-80s and P-51s in Castro's Airforce 30 minutes away) John Kenndy would not allow elements from nearby carriers to shoot down the opposing fighters thereby assuring the invasion's failure. In the aftermath the Kennedy Administration felt compelled to offer relaxed immigration to Cuban exhiles. We were also encouraged to accept immediate US citizenship though many refused, holding out for the hope of a return to their native land. My Dad was one of a minority who held the realistic view that since the educated had fled the Island that returning was probably out of the question as the Castro regime was very popular with the underclasses and that the US would be our home now. I'm proud and glad that he did. I'm an American Citizen since the age of three and have served voluntarily in the US Navy. I don't think I'm about to be arrested any time soon but thanks for the thought.
Anyway there is a book on the Bay of Pigs invasion called "The Bay of Pigs" by Haynes Johnson. I thought it was very well written.
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Excellent read Storch.
I have always been of the opinion that the US embargo on Cuba has done nothing except keep Castro in power. It seems to me that an open and ongoing trade relationship with Cuba would have had a similar result as Glasnost had in the USSR. Basically the availability of goods, services and knowledge from the US would undermine Castro's ability to unite the people against a common enemy... us.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
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Originally posted by storch
In the aftermath the Kennedy Administration felt compelled to offer relaxed immigration to Cuban exhiles. We were also encouraged to accept immediate US citizenship though many refused, holding out for the hope of a return to their native land.
That is a good and well-reasoned response to my troll.
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Our tax dollars at work...
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Excellent read Storch.
I have always been of the opinion that the US embargo on Cuba has done nothing except keep Castro in power. It seems to me that an open and ongoing trade relationship with Cuba would have had a similar result as Glasnost had in the USSR. Basically the availability of goods, services and knowledge from the US would undermine Castro's ability to unite the people against a common enemy... us.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thank you for your comments MT,
Hmmmm.
Embargos seldom work as evidenced by the embargos imposed against South Africa during the Aparteid era and more recently against Iraq. Invasions aren't really the answer either as again evidenced by the current situation in Iraq.
None of us want any of our young people garrissoning third world countries and exposing themselves to dismemberment or death. While there are occasions where an invasion may be necessary there should be certain conditions imposed, a litmus test as it were whereby we (the US) would assist but not participate directly and especially not alone. There could be exceptions, but the classic paradigm should be Gulf War I/Desesrt Shield/Storm. We had a solid coalition with a stated aim. Once the objectives were met we were out.
In the Cuban example we had US trained and equipped exhiled Cuban Nationals and a select number of US covert types that were risking their lives for that cause. Their objective was met, that is a beach head was established. Lamentably US military aid in the neutralization of Cuban airforces as promised was withheld. A few sorties flown from the US Carriers on station would have virtually guaranteed the operation's success.
Once the battle was lost a brief period of Embargo as a face saving gesture would have been appropriate I suppose. However seeing that the Soviet Union was pumping $3 billion dollars a day in 2004 dollars into Cuba and with all of Europe and Canada willing to trade with Mr. Castro I don't believe that there was in fact any embargo at all, except that since it was publicized as such Mr. Castro was able to blame all of his economic blunders on the "US Embargo".
Once the Soviets Bankrupted and collapsed Cuba lost it's prominent position in the Communist Welfare System. The embargo then actually became a very useful tool for Mr. Castro in aiding him to have a ready scapegoat for all of Cuba's woes, namely us the big evil imperialist yankees.
We can't blame any American Administration for these decisions.
I blame the Cuban exhile community for allowing The Cuban American National Foundation to represent themselves as speaking for all Cubans. They are the Cuban equivilent of Jesse Jackson and Operation Rainbow/Push, some clever shakedown artists that take their huge extortion proceeds and liberally grease whomever is in Washington currently. They know the system better than any of us and they exploit it for the sole purpose of keeping Castro in Cuba. Castro in Cuba=lots and lots of money contributed from within the Cuban-American community and by Corporations seeking participation in the huge Hispano market. The agents for the CANF will meet their financial goals by fair means or foul. When that system finally collapses in Cuba some of the Spanish Radio stations here will have nothing to speak about and they will lose national advertisers.
So yes, I completely agree with you. The embargo has really served Mr. Castro and aided him in his subjugation of the Cuban people. Now in a fair and balanced approach allow me to state that not all of Mr. Castro's policies have been bad. Cuba is the most literate country in the world with fully 99% of the population having the equivalent of 14 years of formal education by US standards. Cuba's national healthcare system when it was being funded by the Soviets could have served as a world model. It was innovative, aggressive and free to all even those in the remotest hamlets in the high sierras.
Mr. Castro has not personally behaved as a typical third world despot with regard to his finances and governmental corruption. I recall reading that his personal worth was estimated at five million US dollars. Not a lot considering he has held the reigns of that economy for forty four years.
For the record I am a registered Republican and I opposed Mr. Castro.
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TY