Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: doobs on October 31, 2004, 05:51:37 PM
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don't know if it's been post but here goes;
> NY Post
> TERROR TAKES A STAND
> By RALPH PETERS
>
> October 27, 2004 -- SOLDIERS don't beg. But an old friend of mine who's
> still in uniform came close the other day. He badly wanted me to write
> another column before Election Day stressing that our troops are winning
> in Iraq.
>
> He's an Army veteran of three wars. Now he's working to help Iraq become
> a democratic model for the Middle East. And he's worried.
>
> Not about terrorists or insurgents. He's afraid John Kerry will be
> elected president.
>
> "Kerry's rhetoric is giving the bad guys a thread to hang on," he wrote.
> "They're hoping we lose our nerve. They're more concerned with the U.S.
> elections than with the Iraqi ones."
>
> My pal has been involved in every phase of our Iraq operations — dating
> back to Desert Storm. And he's convinced that the terrorists have risked
> everything to create as much carnage as they can before Nov. 2. Our
> troops are killing them left and right. The terrorists are desperate.
> They can't sustain this tempo of attacks much longer.
>
> But Sen. Kerry insists that we're losing — giving our enemies hope that
> we'll pull out. No matter what else John Kerry may say, the terrorists
> only hear his criticisms of our president and our war.
>
> Let's review what's actually happening in Iraq.
>
> The terrorist stronghold of Fallujah is increasingly isolated. Night
> after night, precision weapons and raids by special-operations forces
> kill international terrorist leaders. Terrified, the local troublemakers
> are trying to play the negotiations card. They know the U.S. Marines are
> coming back. And this time the Leathernecks won't be stopped short.
> Allah's butchers are praying that they can bring down our president
> before terror's citadel falls.
>
> Meanwhile, the Iraqi people have been revolted by the terrorists'
> barbarities. They may not want U.S. troops in their streets forever, but
> they do not want to be ruled by fanatical murderers. Kidnapping aid
> workers and lopping off heads on videotape horrifies decent Muslims. The
> slaughter of 50 unarmed Iraqi recruits did not win hearts and minds.
>
> Every day, Iraqis are more engaged in defending their own country.
> Elections are still on track. The suicide bombings continue, but they
> haven't deterred Iraq's new government. Nor have they been able to stop
> the Coalition and Iraq's expanding forces from cleaning out one
> terrorist rat's nest after another.
>
> Muqtada al-Sadr is quiet as a mouse. Najaf is being rebuilt. Two-thirds
> of Iraq's provinces are quiet. We never see any headlines about our
> Kurdish allies in northern Iraq — because they're building a successful
> modern society in the Middle East. Good-news stories aren't welcome in
> our undeniably pro-Democratic media.
>
> Even the French are uncharacteristically subdued. The serpents of the
> Seine thought they'd seduced the terrorists with a few anti-American
> apples. Instead, they've found that they can't even free two kidnapped
> French journalists.
>
> After their own recent terrorist debacle, the Russians repented their
> criticism of the Bush administration. The Spanish, too, discovered that
> appeasement doesn't work any better for them than for the French — an
> Islamist plot to blow up justice-ministry buildings was recently
> uncovered. And there's more to come.
>
> Terror's appetite is only whetted by weakness.
>
> Of course, the United Nations is still doing everything it can to
> undercut President Bush. Embarrassed by Oil-for-Food corruption
> revelations, the U.N. would like to get back to the good old days of the
> Clinton administration, which winked at outright U.N. criminality.
>
> The terrorists are pulling out all the stops to shed blood in Iraq this
> week. While the media makes every mortar round sound like the end of the
> world, the encouraging news is that the terrorists haven't been able to
> do more. They can harass convoys and murder civilians — but they haven't
> budged our troops or the new Iraqi government.
>
> Of course, the terrorists aren't suddenly going to quit if President
> Bush wins at the polls — but his re-election would be a terrible
> psychological blow to them. They know how high the stakes are in Iraq.
>
> The struggle isn't just about the fate of one country, but about the
> future of the entire Middle East. If freedom and the rule of law get
> even a 51 percent victory in Iraq, it's the beginning of the end for the
> terrori stsandtheviciousregimesthatbr edthem.
>
> Al Qaeda and its affiliates are rapidly using up the human capital
> they've accumulated over decades. The casualties in Iraq are
> overwhelmingly on the terrorist side. Extremist leaders have paid a
> particularly heavy price. But they won't stop fighting because they
> can't. The terrorists have to win in Iraq. They have to defeat America.
>
> The astonishing thing is that so many of our fellow Americans don't get
> it. The terrorists aren't committing their shrinking reserves because
> the outcome's a trivial matter. They recognize the magnitude of what
> we're helping the Iraqi people achieve.
>
> This is the big one. The fate of a civilization hangs in the balance.
> And all we hear from one presidential contender is that it's the "wrong
> war, at the wrong time."
>
> It is. For the terrorists.
>
> Ralph Peters is the author of "Beyond Baghdad: Postmodern War and Peace."
>
>
> Home NEW YORK POST is a registered trademark of NYP Holdings, Inc.
> NYPOST.COM, NYPOSTONLINE.COM, and NEWYORKPOST.COM are trademarks of NYP
> Holdings, Inc. Copyright 2004 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.
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But Sen. Kerry insists that we're losing — giving our enemies hope that we'll pull out. No matter what else John Kerry may say, the terrorists only hear his criticisms of our president and our war.
Hmmm......now were have I heard this before?????
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This story has clearly not been fabricated by the New York Times or CBS, therefore it is unreliable and cannot be trusted. I dismiss it out of hand.
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I will be so frikkin' glad when this election is over already.
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Al Qaeda and its affiliates are rapidly using up the human capital
> they've accumulated over decades. The casualties in Iraq are
> overwhelmingly on the terrorist side.
You dont win this kind of war that way. You have to win the support of the civilian population and show (1) that they will be protected, and (2) that our (democratic) way of life is better.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
You dont win this kind of war that way. You have to win the support of the civilian population and show (1) that they will be protected, and (2) that our (democratic) way of life is better.
We are doing that, we have been all along, and it is working.
Don't kid yourself, killing the scumbags works well. Especially killing them in large numbers.
So long as you don't have scum at home like Kerry, Fonda, Rather, Cronkite, and Moore giving the enemy aid and comfort, winning is a very attainable goal.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
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So long as you don't have scum at home like Kerry, Fonda, Rather, Cronkite, and Moore giving the enemy aid and comfort, winning is a very attainable goal.
So I guess you mean that our (Republican) way of life is better?
Seriously, espousing the spreading of freedom and then suggesting that some voices shouldn't be allowed to be heard kind of defies logic.
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Don't kid yourself, killing the scumbags works well. Especially killing them in large numbers.
It doesn't win wars alone. I cite Vietnam, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan as examples.
If you don't have the support of the indigenous people, you can't win. The U.S. takeover of Afghanistan went very well because we had a large amount of support from Afghanis.
But now the Iraqi people are scared of retribution from the insurgents. They will be afraid to help the Americans or Iraqi government.
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The problem is that neither the puppet regime in Baghdad nor in Kabul are respected by the people of Iraq/Afghanistan.
If Allawi or Karsai dare to leave their capital cities without being heavily guarded they would be killed.
Today the vice governor of Baghdad, Mr. Hassan Kamal Abdel Fattah, was killed with four of his bodyguards.
Both countries - Afghanistan and Iraq have too many political groups, who hate each other and the countries have no real charismatic leader who could unite the people.
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Spend some time reading this (http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/) blog. There are many like them that originate from Iraq.
The reported situation in Iraq is only a small piece of what is going on there. Granted, there is violence of an extreme nature there, but the vast majority of the country is putting itself to rights.
It's unfortunate that most people rely on the major outlets for their information. Most people don't realise the overwhelming victory of the Iraqi people and what it means to the entire region.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
So I guess you mean that our (Republican) way of life is better?
Seriously, espousing the spreading of freedom and then suggesting that some voices shouldn't be allowed to be heard kind of defies logic.
Did I say that? No, I did not.
I did not say anyone should not be heard.
On the other hand, I think there should be serious consequences for doing some of the crap that was done.
Rather should be getting hammered by the FCC and the FEC for knowingly reporting forged documents as valid and factual.
Fonda should have been jailed for treason for going to North Vietnam.
Kerry should have been court martialed, dishonorably discharged, and jailed, for meeting with the North Vietnamese in Paris during the war.
Moore and Cronkite are just idiots who should be ignored.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Did I say that? No, I did not.
I did not say anyone should not be heard.
On the other hand, I think there should be serious consequences for doing some of the crap that was done.
...
You said: "So long as you don't have scum at home like Kerry, Fonda, Rather, Cronkite, and Moore giving the enemy aid and comfort, winning is a very attainable goal."
Sure sounds like you want to stop them BEFORE they give aid, not punish them after the fact. After all, once their statements are on the record, the enemy can use them, right?
Comparing Fonda with Kerry isn't really fair. Nor is comparing Moore with Rather/Cronkite. Nor is it fair to compare anti-war activism with political activism. And hey - you forgot damn Geraldo!
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Alas, it appears I have been unfair to whining liberals, at least according to some.
Ain't life a *****?
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Alas, it appears I have been unfair to whining liberals, at least according to some.
Ain't life a *****?
So you see Jane Fonda (who's closest brush with combat was *****-slapping a grip for her coffee not being hot enough) getting in on the anti-war fad as no different than John Kerry (who went there, was decorated, killed for his country, and saw first hand what American soldiers were having to do) coming back and telling congress just what was happening over there?
You see activism aimed at getting US troops out of a deadly war as the same as activism aimed at getting a candidate elected or overthrown?
It's funny in a way ... 30 years ago Moore's films would be hailed as documentaries, and today Nixon would likely be branded a liberal.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
So you see Jane Fonda (who's closest brush with combat was *****-slapping a grip for her coffee not being hot enough) getting in on the anti-war fad as no different than John Kerry (who went there, was decorated, killed for his country, and saw first hand what American soldiers were having to do) coming back and telling congress just what was happening over there?
You see activism aimed at getting US troops out of a deadly war as the same as activism aimed at getting a candidate elected or overthrown?
It's funny in a way ... 30 years ago Moore's films would be hailed as documentaries, and today Nixon would likely be branded a liberal.
I see very little difference between Kerry and Fonda. I have a few friends who were in Vietnam, and they say the same.
Like CT, who did three tours, was wounded a lot more than three times, and never put himself in for a single medal.
Like Glenn, who listened to the garbage spewed by Kerry and Fonda from his bed, in a VA hospital, recovering from having his leg removed.
Need I say more? Both spent more time in country than Kerry ever dreamed of, and say he is a LIAR. Their time in combat was not measured in weeks or months, but in years.
I see Jane Fonda posing with an NVA unit on a AAA battery as nothing less than treason.
I see John Kerry meeting in Paris with the North Vietnamese representatives after testifying falsely to Congress as nothing less than treason.
Both were used by the North Vietnamese as propaganda tools.
There is a distinct difference between advocating the end of a war or even the end of involvement in a war, and calling the soldiers of your country, who are and were there, bloodthirsty butchering war criminals. It's pretty cut and dried, and easy to see. But if you can't see it, there's very little anyone can do for you.
Whether or not Moore's vitriol would be hailed as a documentary I suppose depends upon who you ask. There are those who think it is a documentary now. Hell, there are some morons who think he should get a freakin Oscar for that crap.
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Have you read Kerry's entire statement to Congress? I have. It's pretty harsh, but not for the times. One problem is it so often gets quoted out of context or in small sound bites.
Biggest problems I have with Moore's film is (a) I can't trust the media to begin with and both sides are using the media to spin how factual the film is, and (b) the pro-Bush side is so vehement in attacking anyone who even suggests there may be some truth in F911 that it makes any reasonable conversation impossible and more or less makes instant enemies. Oh ... and (c) obviously Moore has an agenda ... art should comment on politics, not try to influence it or be a tool to it.
Virgil, our perspectives are colored by where we were in the 60's and 70's and who we know from that era. As well as where and how we were brought up in general. So I guess, yeah, there's nothing that "can be done for me" - I have a different outlook. I see Kerry and Fonda as having completely different motives. Though I will admit Kerry's motives started to change once he started digging the notariety.
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skerry kerry
he's our man!
if he can't do it, no one can!!!
LOL LOL LOL
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
So you see Jane Fonda (who's closest brush with combat was *****-slapping a grip for her coffee not being hot enough) getting in on the anti-war fad as no different than John Kerry (who went there, was decorated, killed for his country, and saw first hand what American soldiers were having to do) coming back and telling congress just what was happening over there?
You see activism aimed at getting US troops out of a deadly war as the same as activism aimed at getting a candidate elected or overthrown?
It's funny in a way ... 30 years ago Moore's films would be hailed as documentaries, and today Nixon would likely be branded a liberal.
No, I see a man who was still in uniform (albeit Navy Reserves) have negotiations with an enemy of the United States in a time of war without the knowledge or permission of his superior officers.
That , sir, is aiding and abbeting the enemy, and is punisable by death.
Now, if can get Kerry to release All of his military records (sign his "108"), I think you will find that he should be unable to hold public office, according to the Constitution.
as for any "pardon" that he might have gotten, Carter pardoned the draft dodgers, not a traitor who used the system to purge his record to further his own political ambitions.
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(http://www.web-friend.com/wp/group1/usa-eagle-800.jpg)
-SW
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Originally posted by Eagler
skerry kerry
he's our man!
if he can't do it, no one can!!!
LOL LOL LOL
I hope Kerry wins just so your embolism bursts.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I hope Kerry wins just so your embolism bursts.
That would be an aneurysm. And embolism is basicly a clot, an aneurysm is a swollen bloodvessel due to a weakened wall.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
That would be an aneurysm. And embolism is basicly a clot, an aneurysm is a swollen bloodvessel due to a weakened wall.
I stand corrected. :D
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I hope Kerry wins just so your embolism bursts.
my mother passed away from one when she was 51 .... it was in her lungs
but don't fear, I am not going anywhere ...
aneurysm or embolism - thanks for the nice thought though - must be some of that liberal compassion boiling to the surface
LOL LOL LOL
Sw
notice the reflection in the eagle's eye?
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Originally posted by Eagler
...
aneurysm or embolism - thanks for the nice thought though - must be some of that liberal compassion boiling to the surface
...
Who said I was either a liberal or compasionate?
I don't like being told who or what I should believe in. I don't like my home state being ragged on because someone from there happens to be running for President. And I don't like having sweepingly generalized labels applied to me because I happen to lean one way or the other on one or two specific issues.
So, kindly Bite Me (tm), Gerbiler.
OK ... 2.1 is downloaded ... bye.
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Im not to sure what Kerry was supposed to have said that was a lie? Did he describe war crimes commited by the US? What exaclty did he say that gets Vietnam Vets so worked up?
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Who said I was either a liberal or compasionate?
I don't like being told who or what I should believe in. I don't like my home state being ragged on because someone from there happens to be running for President. And I don't like having sweepingly generalized labels applied to me because I happen to lean one way or the other on one or two specific issues.
So, kindly Bite Me (tm), Gerbiler.
OK ... 2.1 is downloaded ... bye.
I'll just call you "confused"
now go give skerry a great big kiss from all of us
LOL LOL LOL
pongo
skerry is one BIG LIE - from his bs 4 month "war hero" tour(the burnt rock bands that sing his praises toured longer than that), through his 20 years in congress through this campaign - the man is a bag of hot air, doublespeak, 20/20 hindsight crap - but dorkboy loves him - did u know skerry is from his home state??
LOL LOL LOL
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I find it incredible that some folk here have more concern about America winning or loosing Vietnam rather than the reasoning behind us being there. Vietnam was a lie then just like it is a lie now. I hate to break it to you guys, but all those 60,000 some odd americans that died in the jungles of Vietnam did so for no reason other than the self glorification of our nation's leaders at the time..
Bruce said it well himself:
I had a brother at Khe Sahn fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone
Prime example is all the A4 skyhawks shot down over some of the most heavy AA fire the world has ever known. And they died for what? A bridge that would be rebuilt in a weeks time? Vietnam was a waste of human ability..
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Originally posted by Pongo
Im not to sure what Kerry was supposed to have said that was a lie? Did he describe war crimes commited by the US? What exaclty did he say that gets Vietnam Vets so worked up?
Try reading the transcripts of his testimony to Congress. Try reading the crap from the "Winter Soldier" B.S. If you don't get it after that, then there's no hope that you will.
Suffice to say that had you served honorably in a war no one wanted and everyone looked down on, and then had some jerk say that U.S. soldiers committed atrocities as a part of their normal every day duties and operations, you'd be just a little pissed off. Especially if he'd been in country 4 months and you'd been there 3 years.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Im not to sure what Kerry was supposed to have said that was a lie? Did he describe war crimes commited by the US? What exaclty did he say that gets Vietnam Vets so worked up?
Read my post above the eagle
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
I find it incredible that some folk here have more concern about America winning or loosing Vietnam rather than the reasoning behind us being there. Vietnam was a lie then just like it is a lie now. I hate to break it to you guys, but all those 60,000 some odd americans that died in the jungles of Vietnam did so for no reason other than the self glorification of our nation's leaders at the time..
It has nothing to do with winning or losing in VN
It Has to do with negotiating with the enemy without permission( while still in the Navy).
It has to do with a purple heart he was rewarded for a self- inflicted wound.
It has to do with him "throwing his medals" over the White House Fence.
It has to do wiht those medals being "reinstated"
It has to do with his discharge being "reviewed by a board of officers"
It has to do with the "cleansing" of his military record.
All for his own "Glorification"
Do some research, the guys a Friggin traitor.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Try reading the transcripts of his testimony to Congress. Try reading the crap from the "Winter Soldier" B.S. If you don't get it after that, then there's no hope that you will.
Suffice to say that had you served honorably in a war no one wanted and everyone looked down on, and then had some jerk say that U.S. soldiers committed atrocities as a part of their normal every day duties and operations, you'd be just a little pissed off. Especially if he'd been in country 4 months and you'd been there 3 years.
Specifically what Virgil?? I mean we all know you loved the WW2 mini-series and all but noway am I going to believe your head is so buried you believe the US commited no atrocities in Vietnam. Please point out to me where kerry said 'US soilders commit atrocities everyday'... And then please attempt to explain how kerry was talking about his 'fellow soilders' and not his government....??? Can you??
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Originally posted by Pongo
Im not to sure what Kerry was supposed to have said that was a lie? Did he describe war crimes commited by the US? What exaclty did he say that gets Vietnam Vets so worked up?
Here's a link to his testimony to the senate from 1971:
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Manifestos/VVAW_Kerry_Senate.html
It's pretty harsh stuff, especially at the beginning - and I doubt many people read beyond the "Ghengis Khan" reference. But this was an era where people believed that the President didn't lie and that American troops couldn't possibly kill civilians. This was a much less politically correct time also.
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It Has to do with negotiating with the enemy without permission.
BS... This is your own grudge for personnal reasons..
If I was in Vietnam in 1970 knowing my government was looking for a way out that still was 5 years to come, I'd want the *** out no matter how. I mean com'on.. After 1969, REALLY what were we fighting for?? For jack **** thats what. If my fellow troop could help talk sense into my government to get me home, more power to him.. I wonder how many lifes he saved if any?? I'm sure he saved at least some with the knowledge he exposed the American public to.. the american government to...
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Gerbiler,
You are without a doubt about the biggest waste of oxygen I have run across in a long time. I shudder to think what manner of chromosome damage led to a spawn as hopelessly narrow-minded and judgemental as you appear to be. It is mentalities such as yours which fuel most of the things America is supposed to stand against.
If this is all an act, then "well done." If not, I suggest you seek therapy at once, because you appear to be a hate crime waiting to happen.
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
BS... This is your own grudge for personnal reasons..
If I was in Vietnam in 1970 knowing my government was looking for a way out that still was 5 years to come, I'd want the *** out no matter how. I mean com'on.. After 1969, REALLY what were we fighting for?? For jack **** thats what. If my fellow troop could help talk sense into my government to get me home, more power to him.. I wonder how many lifes he saved if any?? I'm sure he saved at least some with the knowledge he exposed the American public to.. the american government to...
BS back- read the UCMJ
He went to paris not once, but TWICE to negotiate with the NVA,without permission, While he was still in the Navy.
That is ****ing TREASON
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Specifically what Virgil?? I mean we all know you loved the WW2 mini-series and all but noway am I going to believe your head is so buried you believe the US commited no atrocities in Vietnam. Please point out to me where kerry said 'US soilders commit atrocities everyday'... And then please attempt to explain how kerry was talking about his 'fellow soilders' and not his government....??? Can you??
I think if you'll read the link Dok posted you'll see where Kerry said they "committed atrocities on a daily basis" and the officers were fully aware of it, and it was done as a matter of course.
I NEVER said U.S. soldiers did not commit ANY atrocities in Vietnam.
Oh, and by the way, "Winter Soldier" was a FARCE, Kerry knew for a FACT that some of those who "testified" were NEVER in Vietnam, and in fact, some were never even soldiers at all. He knowingly and willingly committed perjury before Congress, and made the most disgusting and heinous slurs against the average soldier in Vietnam who he knew NOTHING about.
One more thing, WTF are you talking about with regards to a World War II miniseries, and WTF does that have to do with the subject at hand, other than the fact that you are talking out your ass?
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
...
One more thing, WTF are you talking about with regards to a World War II miniseries, and WTF does that have to do with the subject at hand, other than the fact that you are talking out your ass?
I think he's referring to "The Great Escape" ... there was a mini-series? I thought it was just a movie. Maybe there's some confusion with "Hogan's Heroes" ... which I always thought was derived from "Stalag 17."
36 more hours and we can (hopefully) stop talking about this.
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One more thing, WTF are you talking about with regards to a World War II miniseries, and WTF does that have to do with the subject at hand, other than the fact that you are talking out your ass?
umm dude.. your screen name.. your avatar?? Clearly you must be a war buff and think all things war are good!!
Was what he said not truth? If not please point out to me specifically what is a fabrication. Was his testimony an attempt to judge our/his government or was it meant to drag the american service man's name through the mud?? If you feel it was the service man, please point out examples and explain to me..
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Gerbiler,
You are without a doubt about the biggest waste of oxygen I have run across in a long time. I shudder to think what manner of chromosome damage led to a spawn as hopelessly narrow-minded and judgemental as you appear to be. It is mentalities such as yours which fuel most of the things America is supposed to stand against.
If this is all an act, then "well done." If not, I suggest you seek therapy at once, because you appear to be a hate crime waiting to happen.
so how long have you had your fetish with small rodents?
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
umm dude.. your screen name.. your avatar?? Clearly you must be a war buff and think all things war are good!!
Was what he said not truth? If not please point out to me specifically what is a fabrication. Was his testimony an attempt to judge our/his government or was it meant to drag the american service man's name through the mud?? If you feel it was the service man, please point out examples and explain to me..
You are the "dude', not me. Besides the fact that you know NOTHING about me, you only assume, and your assumptions are wrong.
The Great Escape was a movie, not a mini series. Hilts is a fictional composite character who was most of all just an underdog with a quick wit and a sense of humor spiced with sarcasm.
You fly a flight sim that glorifies World War II and you kill other players. Does that mean you are in love with war too?
Ever stop to think how stupid the assumptions you make sound before you make them?
If you can't read from the link posted and grasp the concept that Kerry said it was the standard policy of the U.S. military to commit war crimes and that U.S. soldiers did it on a daily basis, then nothing anyone will say can help you.
If you want to say that it was U.S. military policy, and the average soldier carried it out, I think you should go to the nearest VFW and tell all the Vietnam veterans there that they are just like the German SS soldiers. Because that is EXACTLY what you are saying.
I know enough Vietnam veterans to know that it was NOT the policy of the U.S. military to commit war crimes on a daily basis, nor was such a policy carried out by the average soldier.
If you cannot gather from that article and common sense knowledge of the U.S. military that Kerry is a lying POS, then no one can ever convince you.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I think he's referring to "The Great Escape" ... there was a mini-series? I thought it was just a movie. Maybe there's some confusion with "Hogan's Heroes" ... which I always thought was derived from "Stalag 17."
36 more hours and we can (hopefully) stop talking about this.
As is typical, he knows nothing at all of what he speaks. No surprise there.
There was a mini series about the investigation of the execution of the POW's that were recaptured. There was no mention of the "Hilts" character.
"Hoan's Heroes" actually did come from "The Great Escape" although there was influence from "Stalag 17".
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
That would be an aneurysm. And embolism is basicly a clot, an aneurysm is a swollen bloodvessel due to a weakened wall.
Well, let's hope for some kind of apoplexy.
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well, if the post doobs made is legite or not, one thing does stand out........
Our troops are fighting terrorist, not Sodamninsane's left over army, and I would much rather our troops fight terrorist in Iraq and in Afganhistan than here on US soil...........
when it comes to terrorists, you never really know what exactly you need as far as man power / troops
it is unconventional type of war and there is no way to put a scheduled date on something like this.......it will be over when it is over.....if it ever really comes to an end
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
umm dude.. your screen name.. your avatar?? Clearly you must be a war buff and think all things war are good!!
Was what he said not truth? If not please point out to me specifically what is a fabrication. Was his testimony an attempt to judge our/his government or was it meant to drag the american service man's name through the mud?? If you feel it was the service man, please point out examples and explain to me..
The heck with his testimony to Congress.
What about his trips to Paris ?
This guy negotiated with the NV goverment,without the permission of his superors while he was in the Navy!
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl104.htm
104/1 (b) - 104/5 (a) and (b)
That's all I need to see
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lol Your right... sorry for the assumption.. was kinda joking more less..
I have always read your name virgil hill and thought it was the char. in the Band of Brothers set.. lol Even looks like the guy that played him. O well.. myhandsomehunk.. hehe
Of course 'daily atrocities' are not MSP or is that SMP. hehe Don't believe I've written anything like that. I guess it is just a difference of oppion as you believe kerry was speaking of every soldier's activities everyday. I don't believe he was. I believe he was speaking on an over all situation of the war and terrible things did happen. It can be argured that america's involvement was terrible from the beginning.
Was anything he said proven false?
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just in from ESPN
What would you say, and how would you describe, the general fitness of the American public?
Kerry: A lot of America is unbelievably fit and a lot of America is not. That's how I'd describe it. We've got a country much aware of health than it used to be. Many more people eating differently with different drinking habits, smoking has changed. There's a lot of new awareness, but we have a long way to go. Obesity is a big problem in the United States and I think we can do a lot more to educate young people about the importance of taking care of themselves and staying fit. It just provides for a better life.
Well were fit and were not, Glad he nailed it down. Bush said mediocore, but I think there is a big difference in the answer.
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Originally posted by doobs
just in from ESPN
What would you say, and how would you describe, the general fitness of the American public?
Kerry: A lot of America is unbelievably fit and a lot of America is not. That's how I'd describe it. We've got a country much aware of health than it used to be. Many more people eating differently with different drinking habits, smoking has changed. There's a lot of new awareness, but we have a long way to go. Obesity is a big problem in the United States and I think we can do a lot more to educate young people about the importance of taking care of themselves and staying fit. It just provides for a better life.
Well were fit and were not, Glad he nailed it down. Bush said mediocore, but I think there is a big difference in the answer.
So is Kerry wrong? No. If I recall the stats indicate we are the biggest bunch of porkers on the planet. However, at the same time another segment of our population are now more aware of their diet (freakin' Atkins), working out religiously, and drinking gallons of bottled water each day. Most people who are overweight probably don't understand why (and those ads for diet pills and so on sure don't help) and corporations like McDonalds sure don't want people really knowing just what's in their product.
I wish Kerry wasn't so ponderous.
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If you vote for Bush, your arms will fall off.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
well, if the post doobs made is legite or not, one thing does stand out........
Our troops are fighting terrorist, not Sodamninsane's left over army, and I would much rather our troops fight terrorist in Iraq and in Afganhistan than here on US soil...........
when it comes to terrorists, you never really know what exactly you need as far as man power / troops
it is unconventional type of war and there is no way to put a scheduled date on something like this.......it will be over when it is over.....if it ever really comes to an end
Agreed ... better there than here.
But I also think that terrorist organizations are just as skilled at spinning any event to their aims as our own politicians are. No matter who wins, they will spin it to further their cause.
Please let this election end already.
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That Adkin's crap has raised the price of beef. Remember when brisket was cheap?
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
lol Your right... sorry for the assumption.. was kinda joking more less..
I have always read your name virgil hill and thought it was the char. in the Band of Brothers set.. lol Even looks like the guy that played him. O well.. myhandsomehunk.. hehe
Of course 'daily atrocities' are not MSP or is that SMP. hehe Don't believe I've written anything like that. I guess it is just a difference of oppion as you believe kerry was speaking of every soldier's activities everyday. I don't believe he was. I believe he was speaking on an over all situation of the war and terrible things did happen. It can be argured that america's involvement was terrible from the beginning.
Was anything he said proven false?
If you had read the transcript at the link Dok provided up thread, you'd know that Kerry said that those atrocities WERE the order of the day. I never said you wrote that, I don't care what you wrote, that does not matter. What matters is what Kerry said, and it is public record. He said that every soldier, himself included, was committing atrocities on a near daily basis. Just read the transcript.
Kerry's testimony before Congress was used by the NVA to torture some of the most highly respected and most decorated men in the U.S. military. They used his testimony as an excuse to beat those men, to tie their arms behind their backs and manacle their hands together for hours and even days at a time.
And yes, 90% of what John Kerry said about Vietnam and the U.S. military is known to be false.
If everything Kerry said or claims is true, then why does he refuse to sign his form 180 and authorize a full release of his military record? You know, that record he claims qualifies him to be President. John Kerry has based his ENTIRE campaign on his service in Vietnam, and yet he REFUSES to sign his form 180 and release records of that service. WHY? I'll tell you why, because he is a treasonous lying scumbag. The same reason he won't allow release of the FBI file on him. Because he's HIDING his actions. Because he's ASHAMED of himself. And most of all, because if the truth came out, he could not get elected to sewer captain.
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Originally posted by Flit
No, I see a man who was still in uniform (albeit Navy Reserves) have negotiations with an enemy of the United States in a time of war without the knowledge or permission of his superior officers.
That , sir, is aiding and abbeting the enemy, and is punisable by death.
Now, if can get Kerry to release All of his military records (sign his "108"), I think you will find that he should be unable to hold public office, according to the Constitution.
as for any "pardon" that he might have gotten, Carter pardoned the draft dodgers, not a traitor who used the system to purge his record to further his own political ambitions.
What I said
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Originally posted by Flit
It has nothing to do with winning or losing in VN
It Has to do with negotiating with the enemy without permission( while still in the Navy).
It has to do with a purple heart he was rewarded for a self- inflicted wound.
It has to do with him "throwing his medals" over the White House Fence.
It has to do wiht those medals being "reinstated"
It has to do with his discharge being "reviewed by a board of officers"
It has to do with the "cleansing" of his military record.
All for his own "Glorification"
Do some research, the guys a Friggin traitor.
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Originally posted by Flit
The heck with his testimony to Congress.
What about his trips to Paris ?
This guy negotiated with the NV goverment,without the permission of his superors while he was in the Navy!
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl104.htm
104/1 (b) - 104/5 (a) and (b)
That's all I need to see
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oops, got Kerryed away:D
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Ya don't say.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
If you had read the transcript at the link Dok provided up thread, you'd know that Kerry said that those atrocities WERE the order of the day. I never said you wrote that, I don't care what you wrote, that does not matter. What matters is what Kerry said, and it is public record. He said that every soldier, himself included, was committing atrocities on a near daily basis. Just read the transcript.
Kerry's testimony before Congress was used by the NVA to torture some of the most highly respected and most decorated men in the U.S. military. They used his testimony as an excuse to beat those men, to tie their arms behind their backs and manacle their hands together for hours and even days at a time.
And yes, 90% of what John Kerry said about Vietnam and the U.S. military is known to be false.
If everything Kerry said or claims is true, then why does he refuse to sign his form 180 and authorize a full release of his military record? You know, that record he claims qualifies him to be President. John Kerry has based his ENTIRE campaign on his service in Vietnam, and yet he REFUSES to sign his form 180 and release records of that service. WHY? I'll tell you why, because he is a treasonous lying scumbag. The same reason he won't allow release of the FBI file on him. Because he's HIDING his actions. Because he's ASHAMED of himself. And most of all, because if the truth came out, he could not get elected to sewer captain.
They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
Are you saying you know for fact none of these things happened? Where are the lies?? Notice it does say that 'at times'.. It does not say every soldier did these things everyday..
We who have come here to Washington have come here because we feel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country, we could be quiet, we could hold our silence, we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, not the reds, but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out....
Humm.. does this sound like this man hates' his country?
In our opinion and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart.
Humm.. Is this opinion not truthful?
We found most people didn't even know the difference between communism and democracy. They only wanted to work in rice paddies without helicopters strafing them and bombs with napalm burning their villages and tearing their country apart. They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone in peace, and they practiced the art of survival by siding with whichever military force was present at a particular time, be it Viet Cong, North Vietnamese or American
Does this sound like truth? If so, wouldn't you think the American peps should be told such things??
We watched the United States falsification of body counts, in fact the glorification of body counts. We listened while month after month we were told the back of the enemy was about to break. We fought using weapons against "oriental human beings." We fought using weapons against those people which I do not believe this country would dream of using were we fighting in the European theater. We watched while men charged up hills because a general said that hill has to be taken, and after losing one platoon or two platoons they marched away to leave the hill for reoccupation by the North Vietnamese. We watched pride allow the most unimportant battles to be blown into extravaganzas, because we couldn't lose, and we couldn't retreat, and because it didn't matter how many American bodies were lost to prove that point, and so there were Hamburger Hills and Khe Sanhs and Hill 81s and Fire Base 6s, and so many others.
Looks like truth to me.. no??
Each day to facilitate the process by which the United States washes her hands of Vietnam someone has to give up his life so that the United States doesn't have to admit something that the entire world already knows, so that we can't say that we have made a mistake. Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the first President to lose a war."
Also, true?
We are asking Americans to think about that because how do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?....We are here in Washington to say that the problem of this war is not just a question of war and diplomacy. It is part and parcel of everything that we are trying as human beings to communicate to people in this country - the question of racism which is rampant in the military, and so many other questions such as the use of weapons; the hypocrisy in our taking umbrage at the Geneva Conventions and using that as justification for a continuation of this war when we are more guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions; in the use of free fire zones, harassment interdiction fire, search and destroy missions, the bombings, the torture of prisoners, all accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam. That is what we are trying to say. It is part and parcel of everything.
Didn't these things happen??
Where are the falsehoods Hilt?? I'm not seeing them.
Good men beating in Vietnam prisons? This one is fairly laughable. This gets blamed on Kerry as if to make one believe these war prisoners were not going to be beating before hand. Anyone making the claim that war prisoners were beaten harder because of something Kerry did is pure speculation. Nothing more..
Where are the 90% falsehoods?? Do they orginate from some other speech kerry gave??
War records.. blah...
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Here, Kerry admits he's traitor
http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2004/09/swiftvets_sixth.html
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"Fox News"
That's all I need to see.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
"Fox News"
That's all I need to see.
Scroll down to his sworn testimony
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If you look for forums where active duty folks hang around, you'll find most all of them think Kerry is a fool. Such gems as how he will "double special forces" http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/10/special_forces_.html to fight terror seems to strike nerves within the online communities at Lightfighter Tactical, Tactical Forums, SOCNet, and ProfessionalSoldiers to include a few. You can't come up with an order and automatically double warriors that take years and years of training. Read any book which touches on selection and training and you will find that only a few percent of those that sign up ever make it. There are always people who are itching to sign up and give it a shot. Maybe he'll lower standards? That will fly just as good as when the Rangers lost their distinctive black beret.
As for Iraq, visiting those forums as well as blogs, and the militaryphotos site gives an impression that yes there is continuing violence, but things improve daily there also. Soldiers and marines pass out schoolbooks, backpacks, school supplies and equip classrooms. The Iraqi national guard is building up, as well as police forces (which are targeted severely, but that hasn't stopped those that seek to join). There are Iraqi counter-terror units in training - photos of them, masked and wearing US-issue equipment show up on the militaryphotos "Today's pics" threads once in a while. Their pictures are gathered from news sources worldwide. I hope that this stuff they pass for news on the major networks goes the way of the DoDo bird. Checking multiple sources for verification is the standard way of conducting research, and with forums and blogs where you can get FIRST hand information, it is a much better way of getting your news.
mauser
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I thought your avitar was of THIS (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0568180/) guy.. I could have swore his name was virgill in the band of brothers series... Good thing I'm not much of the beting sort...
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
I thought your avitar was of THIS (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0568180/) guy.. I could have swore his name was virgill in the band of brothers series... Good thing I'm not much of the beting sort...
No ... I believe his avatar is of Steve McQueen.