Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Saintaw on December 01, 2000, 05:08:00 AM
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Ok, I've had it... you're all safe.
I realised that I can fly the bird alright (when I don't do stipid things and loose all my E for that low slow target (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ), but I can't seem to hit s**t... (I miss 90% of my shots and usualy never open up before 300yds...).
Be it with .50's and 20mm or 30mm... My convergence depends of the gun type 400 for Hispano or .50 and 275 for anything else in Wings (300 for nose MG's in the 109's).
I just "can't hit a cow in a barrel"... *sigh*
I also tried a Zillion of different gunsights, not to avail..
any golden tips on that one ?
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MASS/SAW
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache/)
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/sawbw.gif)
"It's supposed to be hard; that's what makes it great!"
Tom Hanks, A League of Their Own
"hey, Im a tard, got bent, sorry."(Creamo, out of context)
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 12-01-2000).]
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Same ole saw still couldn't hit the broadside of my 51 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) You're doin the right thing by not firing till about 300 or so though you want to start firing just before you reach your convergence distance and fire through it.
Personally I use a very simple site. It has a single pixel in the center so I can see where my rounds are going and adjust. I believe it was Wardog or Voss who told me about it. Can't remember,but it was one of the original 357th members.
Also, you might try and maneuver so you're not firing at a target under your nose.
Not much help there but maybe it'll do something for you.. Feel free to get me in the TA and use me for target practice!!
S! Saw
Bane
13th TAS
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Saw, try going very fast. Helps a lot, because enemy won't be able to move as much and you'll require less lead. Of course he can break turn from you.
If you go fast, up the convergence setting to 50-75 yards more than you usually have - the bullets will have travelled more than y350 (if you're 350 behind the enemy when you fire) due to his relative speed.
Also, go only for one sort of gun - don't jump between Hisps and lw 20mm's. Jumping from LW to hisps isn't bad, since hisps are ez mode gunnery, but the other way around leads to (pun unintended) one using too little lead.
My advice; high closure speed, firing from close range (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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Nonono, what I meant was that I can't even hit a straight flying target flying 250yds away (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) LOL !
I think it's the "head bobbing" I shall try to blame this time...just to hide that I am a bad shot ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (Ask RAM).
<gloating mode on>
It's REALY annoying when I know the 109 in front of me is Hblair(grrrrrr (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ) or one O' those "flying pigs", then you have one of those "one chance in a Zillion" to hit him, 'cause he's right on your nose...bang bang bang... Missed ! :/
so, as I said before, you're safe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<gloating mode off>
I'd take that TA offer gladly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (Euro friendly times ?).
Saw
(ps, look for MASS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) )
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Santa, yup, but:
while ($speed='fast')
{
blackout($saw);
miss($target);
auger($saw);
if ($target='spitfire')
{
$target .='go under nose';
loose_tgt($saw)
}
exit;
}
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Saw I feel your pain bro!
I missed a spitty at 150yds yesterday if you remember from RW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Here is what I am trying. I notice that I am getting a lot of bounce from the plane when trying to fine tune the shot. I have been trying to adjust my stick settings to smooth things out. My old stick I had set perfect and didn't miss near as often. Alot of times poor aim can be contributed to an out of whack stick. Try offline at the drones and see if you are getting too much input on a steady target.
This may help you narrow down to you just plain blowing the shot or settings causing you to miss.
S!
Rocket
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Turn off your tracers, it makes you focus more on where you are aiming instead of watching your shot.
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Milo
3./JG2
"Horrido"
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Wait for them to fix the dispersion, coming in V1.05 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Or, fly a Goon for us next time we're all up! Hehehehehe!
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I'm working on a sight just for the gunnery-challenged. It's based off the standard A-26 gunsight, and is beyond simple. When I get it done I'll post it here.
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Whattaya mean I can't kill em? Why the hell not?!
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/behappy.jpg)
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Both of these sights are based on the standard gunsight in the A-26 Invader. Zeno's has a film of the A-26, and it shows the gunsight. The first sight is a rough duplication of that sight, while the other one is a variation. Hit the image to download the BMP file.
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/article/A-26.jpg) (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/article/A-26.bmp)
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/article/A-26A.jpg) (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/article/A-26A.bmp)
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Whattaya mean I can't kill em? Why the hell not?!
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/behappy.jpg)
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gunnery-challenged
ROFLOL !
Thank you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Saw
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A couple of things that might help.
1. As basic as it sounds, are you SURE your rounds are going through the centre dot of your gunsight? You may have inadvertently reset your forward view position, only to find that your eyes are no longer aligned correctly with the gunsight.
2. Don't use a complicated gunsight. Whenever I am having gunnery problems, I revert to a gunsight without a centre dot. I generally use a K-14 ring sight, and find that without the centre dot I'm concentrating more on getting a good sight picture than simply trying to maneuver the 'death dot' onto the target.
Hope this helps.
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps
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The standard A-26 gunsight actually covers the entire dispersion area on a Yak. Not sure about the 109, but on the Yak every round will be within that ring. I tested it in the TA a few minutes ago and found both sights to be dead on. What you put in the center of that ring you WILL hit. The second sight is good for the P-47, since at short range the rounds are going through the middle. At longer ranges, just use the bottom of the ring. I was hitting several targets dead on by aiming a little high, then bringing the nose down as the range got shorter.
I'll do some testing to figure out which planes those sights fit best. So far both P-47s and the Yak work perfectly. With some tweaks, it could be used for any plane.
------------------------
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Whattaya mean I can't kill em? Why the hell not?!
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/behappy.jpg)
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Trim your plane before firing.
eskimo
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Joystick maybe could use a calibration.
Deadband and dampening adjustments can make a big difference as well.
eskimo
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Try firing with as little Gee as possible. Aim in front, lettim fly into stream..
(i suck too)
AKSKurj
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Originally posted by ygsmilo:
Turn off your tracers, it makes you focus more on where you are aiming instead of watching your shot.
Very good advice in my opinion. I turned my tracers off the night the option became available. Once you get used to it, no tracers are a real plus.
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I tell all the gusy I help with gunnery in the TA the same as ygsmilo just said. I turned off my tracers months ago and it has helped me alot. I look at tracers as sort of a "crutch", at least it was that way for me. And I didnt see results immediately either. It took a couple of weeks. In the end I fire on instinct rather than concentrating on liniong up. It seems the harder i tried to line up the harder it was for me to hit anything.
Turn off the tracers for 7 days of flying and ssee what will happen.
Hope it helps you-- ammo
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Interesting ammo. I'll have to try that out and see how it goes. Lord knows it couldn't get much worse for me.
BTW, one other thing. Do you zoom in to fire? I find the change in perspective completely hoses my gunnery, especially in deflection shooting. I'll zoom to watch the target, but then go back to regular view to shoot him. It's a small thing but it makes a big difference for me. I've missed the easiest shots lately because I tried to shoot while zoomed and totally mis-judged the lead.
BTW, what are you guys using for convergence settings in the .50 cal planes like the Jug? I have been using 350/375/400/425 going from outer to inner (so they cross) but I'm not sure that's best. I get lots of hits but also get lots of assists. I'm thinking of going with them all together at 350.
Saw, here is something that might help. Film some of you passes and post them. We may be able to spot something you are doing that is hurting your gunnery.
------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Saintaw
You can't shoot very well?!! Don't worry...neither could most other WW2 fighter pilots. A2A gunnery is the single most difficult skill a fighter pilot has to learn.
I can't do this in '25 words or less'! Here are the basics!
You have three problems to solve: (1) You must be in range. (2) You must be 'in plane'. (3) You must have the correct lead.
In AH, these things are not easy to recognize. You can use the range icon to help figure out firing range, but I have found that trying to read an icon while I am also trying to solve the other two variables is tough to do. One solution...use target relative size as a cue. Most AH a/c have about the same dimensions. You can pick a gunsight design that is intended to be used as a size measuring device...one's with circles are good. Use the TA to practice trailing one of the drones at your chosen convergence range while you film. Then go back and stop the film when you have the range right. Compare the size of the target to the sight dimensions. Memorize that relationship!
Next, the 'in plane' problem. Here I am talking about getting the bullet stream into the plane of motion of the target at firing range. Because of gravity drop, this is usually not the same as you being in the target's plane of motion. When in a turn, you must hold the center gunsight reference...usually called the 'pipper', ie, the 'dot'...above the target's flight path. See this figure:
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/s1.jpg)
Finally, you have to solve the lead problem...and this is the toughest part of the gunnery issue. The lead angle is going to primarily vary with angle off and range.
Try to keep angle off to a minimum. BFM yourself into a six o'clock position with a small amount of closure. Don't even think about firing until you have 'camped' yourself at the target's six. In doing so, you will be in a minimal angle off position.
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/s2.jpg)
One trick I use is to maneuver into the general six position without using the gunsight in my visual scan. Ignore the sight and just fly to the target's six. Then, once you are in position, bring the sight into your scan and move it into position.
And what exactly is that position?
Use back stick to move the pipper forward. Bank gently into the target to move the pipper 'up' relative to the target's flight path. Note the overall size of the target. Put the pipper above the target's flight path by an amount equal to about half of that overall size. This is only an approximation, but it will get you started in the right position. In doing this, you have added a small gravity drop correction.
Now, let's fine tune the lead angle. Use back pressure to move the pipper forward. Use the same overall target size picture. Move the pipper until it is about two of these 'size pictures' ahead of the target. NOTE: This lead value is the most critical part of the lead angle problem. There is no one answer. The technique I'm describing is good for low angle off situations. As angle off increases, so does the amount of lead required. For angles off exceeding about 45 degrees, you will probably lose sight of the target below your nose when you try to pull lead.
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/s3.jpg)
Lastly...you must stabilize prior to firing. Don't just pull the pipper into position and fire. Use the idea of 'track - shoot- track'. Fly the pipper into position, then stabilize. Then hold the pipper steady and fire a good burst...one second at least. Then release the trigger and continue to track your firing picture. This 'track - shoot - track' idea will help you with pipper control.
All of this is explained and illustrated in detail in my A2A gunnery articles in the Air Combat Corner at www.simhq.com (http://www.simhq.com)
Good luck.
Andy
[This message has been edited by Andy Bush (edited 12-03-2000).]
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WOW ! This one is going to my Bookmarks !
Lepht : No, I don't use zoom for firing.
Ammo, Hb : Yup , will try tracers off.
Flak : using your sight, looks clear indeed (very nice for the 109's!)
Andy: I think the point where I have a problem Is I have a hard time calculating the TOF of the bullets when I am aiming. I kinda aim "where he's going to be", BUT since I can't yet manage to get in my brain the TIME it will take to the bullits to get there.
Other than that, I think I'll read your post, go try it , come back and re-read it untill it all enters (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Will try my best to shoot you all up there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Thank you all !
Saw
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 12-02-2000).]
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Saintaw
OK! Let's talk TOF then. TOF is a range issue. Minimize your problem by minimizing range. This was the key to success in WW2, and the same is true in AH. Personally, I think anything outside 250-300yds is wasted effort for the average shooter.
First of all, pick a plane and get used to it and its weapons.
Then get a gunsight that helps simplify the gunnery problem. I suggest Mino's sight. Here it is.
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/s4.jpg)
This is a jpg image. Convert it to bmp to use it in AH. If necessary, do a forum search to find Mino's post.
Mino's sight is intended for both A2A and A2G use. Here are some tips for using it A2A.
If you can modify the bmp file, try this:
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/s5.jpg)
This modified sight does several things for you. The pipper is an exact aiming point. The two vertical lines represent the flight path boundaries of the target. The line below the pipper represents bullet stream and firing reference points. The small 'boxes' on this line represent a shorter range/low angle off situation and a longer range/higher angle off situation.
Use this sight this way. Follow the techniques in my earlier post. BFM the target until it is in your HUD and centered at the top. Increase back pressure to move the target down toward the two vertical lines. If in a turn, fly the target towards the vertical line closest to the horizon.
With the target flight path now aligned with the two vertical lines (or close to it...this will vary with G and bank angle), continue to pull back stick to move the target down to one of the two range/angle off boxes, depending on your setup.
Stabilize and fire.
Film your passes and post them here for analysis.
Andy
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Saw i tried looking to see your hit rates and what planes you fly but guess your using the free player option currently so that did not help.
Personally i reckon most of the above posts although trying to be very helpful are barking up the wrong tree.
I tend to agree with Eskimo as to the 3 main possible causes and cure for your problem.
Sure all these sights are real fine and especially Mino's looks like it could help, but i tend to use a basic minimal sight with edge markers and just a small dot in the centre. I want to see my target not a screen full of sight lines.
What most seem to have missed in your post was the fact you could not hit a straight flying target at 250 -300 yds.
No sight on the planet will help with this.
I like Eskimo suggest you cal your stick and spend some time experimenting with dead bands and sensitivity sliders.
Be methodical about it though, start by copying the stick.cfg file in your Aces High settings folder and putting it somewhere safe then go experiment.
Every time you think you have made an improvement save it as your copy of stick.cfg.
This way when you get it all Fubared you can easily go back to the last best version cos believe me if you try to do it from memory it never feels the same.
Experiment in the Offline mode tracking from the 6 position to judge how good your control is around the neutral stick position and doing slashing attacks to practice snap shots.
I think it would be nice to have the option of different stick save files for the different aircraft cos whats right for one is wrong for another.
If you check my stats from previous tours its easy to see where i eventually found some settings that suited me.
I could post my stick.cfg file for you to try but think its probably very dependant on make of stick etc and your own feel.
Maybe Eskimo and I dont know what we are talking about ? check our stats and you might think we may just have a valid point.
I have been in the position of not hitting a level and steady aircraft when i joined AH so i know where your coming from.
There are other things you can do as well like "how" you trim your aircraft for combat and depending on the aircraft you fly how you approach and line it up.
To date my peak hit rate has been 15.28% but currently around 11% due to some serious base strafing, which of course does not count even if you hit the target, and therefore drops your hit rate considerably.
In short it sounds like you have at least a partial control problem aligning the target rather than a problem interpreting the data correctly.
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Just went thru the same thing when I moved from FA to AH, and I worked it out pretty quick. At least I think so from my hit stat, which is now in the top 50. A few bits of advice which helped me in AH when I finally remembered them:
1) Get close. Wait til the enemy fills your windscreen. Brit pilots in WWII were told to "stick your nose in his cockpit." Consider 100 best, 200 good, 300 ok, 400 too far.
2) Surprise. Get in his blind spot. Planes that don't know you are shooting are usually much easier to hit.
3) Fire in short bursts. If you didn't hit with the initial rounds, it's very unlikely you will walk the stream onto target.
4) Consistency. Pick one plane, and stick with it. Pick one convergence setting, and stick with it. I fly the spit and use 300 convergence.
5) Look for easy targets. Shoot at planes on the deck with low E, and planes hanging because they went vert with too little speed.
6) Fly your way onto his tail. Snapshots are damn hard. I quit trying to make high-angle shots, and try to fly for a low-angle shot now.
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Andy, I had that very sight, but it looks like Torquila fits me best for the moment. I'm now spending a lot of time in the P47 D25 (Lots of ammo, clear View, it's a "Radial", and we all know that only "real men..." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ). I still spend a lot of my time as bait for my Squaddies, but have improved somehow since this thread... (I also avoid furballs & deacking lately... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ). Taking tracers off seems to help too as well as Stabisizing. (Although, it now takes me more time to se up, thus..get killed, when in "tunnelvision").
Cav, I do have a prob with My rudder (It's a physicaly not well centered CH pro pedal analog set). I don't have any spiking (or a little, that I could get out with Deadband). I am using settings similar to the ones LEPHTURN posted here a while ago(since I think we fly the same bird...). Also, you might want to check this last tour under "MASS" (my new callsign *sigh*). I mostly fly the P47's or the 109G-6/10. I loooove the way the 109 handles, but I just can't see a thing out of this cockpit (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Cheers,
Saw
PS: I'll go to TA tomorrow & do a couple of small films if I find a victim (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Heya Saw.
I've just created a new gunsight for the Jug that I really like. It seems to work equally well in other planes as well. Check it out:
(http://users.eastlink.ca/~sconrad/images/lephturnsightbig.bmp) (http://users.eastlink.ca/~sconrad/images/lephturn.bmp)
For instructions and download hit my web page at http://users.eastlink.ca/~sconrad/ (http://users.eastlink.ca/~sconrad/) . Basically as you can see the aiming point is above center. You will have to adjust your head position carefully to make this work right, but I really like it. It gives me maximum view over the nose for those tough deflection shots.
------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 12-03-2000).]
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andy you are just plain bad assed . and i dont say things like that alot
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Lephturn
Good idea! I tried it out and I think I'll stay with it! I did change the sight look, however...I went with the standard USAF circle (reticle) with a pipper in it...too many years of looking thru that type for me to change now!
I'm not sure that any look angle over the prop is gained...but there is a definite increase in lookdown angles that are slightly either side of the nose...and in higher G situations, this can be a big plus.
-towd-
LOL!! Thanks!
Andy
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An idea came to mind! Here's an example of reticle ranging...the basic idea is to size your gunsight display such that its size represents target size at a given range.
I chose 300yds just for the heck of it.
Then I made myself a gunsight...a two reticle sight similar to what we had in the F-4. I wanted the inside reticle to be the size of a typical target's wingspan at a range of 300yds. The inside reticle is half the size of the outside reticle, therefore the outside reticle represents a range of 150yds.
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/s10.jpg)
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/s11.jpg)
Notice that I only use half circles. Why? Because the upper half is always 'above' the target and therefore of no use. And this de-clutters the HUD area which I find to be good.
You can easily calibrate the reticle size by using the in/out zoom keys to shrink or expand the sight size. Just get behind your reference target at your desired range. Zoom in for larger detail. Then use the In/Out keys to make the reticle match the target's wingspan...then use F10 to save that setting!
Now that you have this reticle reference, you no longer need the icons!
Andy
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Saintaw said;
"Nonono, what I meant was that I can't even hit a straight flying target flying 250yds away LOL !"
Saintaw, is this true?
Does a straight and level target bob up and down in your gunsight? Are you constantly moving your stick to try to get your pipper on him, but over-correcting?
eskimo
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Oh yeah, I fogot one, thanks for reminding me:
7) Don't touch your rudder when you shoot. The yaw oscillations will throw you off. Use bank and pitch to aim.
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Andy, can you e-mail me a copy of that gunsight??
skernsk@connect.ab.ca
Thanks
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Andy bush
could you email me that gunsite as well
b1488@hotmail.com
thnx
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Stationary targets are always fun tracers off. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://heathblair.tripod.com/ahss84.jpg)
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Yup Eskimo, but it's more like I am going up & down and have to correct to get the tgt stabilsided in sight. I realise I was kinda cheap on Ammo (1/2 secon bursts... I now use 2 seconds bursts... works better).
Saw
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Saw,
One thing that can really mess up your gunnery is trim. Having a plane that is far out of trim will result in the problem you are having. There are a few ways to solve this in AH. One way is to manually trim the plane as you roll on to the target so that you are perfectly in trim. This is very difficult to do, especially if you don't have a fancy stick and throttle setup with tons of extra hat switches. What I do is to try and figure out what speed I will be shooting at, and auto-trim the plane for level flight at that speed before I enter the fight. Of couse you need to turn combat trim off at this point or you will defeat the purpose of auto trimming at a certain speed. Combat trim is the simplest solution, but not the most exact. If you have combat trim turned on, it will allow you to be "pretty close" on the trim when shooting and should prevent most of the problems.
If you are still having problems you will need to do two things. First, play with your stick scaling and try to smooth your stick input in that part of your range. Pay attention to which shots you miss, the ones with a lot of back stick, or the ones around center point. Then try adjusting your stick scaling at that travel range and see if it helps. The second thing is to be patient! Do not try to pull lead too early. If you do, you just end up whipsawing back and forth as you pull lead and fall back repeatedly. You want to stay in lag pursuit until you are pretty sure you can hold lead for a couple of seconds solid, and then slowly and smoothly ease into lead and shoot. I try to start firing a bit before the bullets should contact and slowly pull through proper lead angle to rake the target with a good 1 second burst. The trick is to be patient enough to stay in lag pursuit and not try to pull lead too early. There is a fine line when flying a plane like the jug, you need to be patient, but not wait too long. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) It takes a while to find that perfect spot where you have the E to get a nice solid tracking shot against a better turning plane. If you wait too long, you generally lose your advantage. Try to maneuver for a shot early in the fight, but don't rush the shot itself. A couple of extra seconds to make a smooth shot will do wonders. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Give this stuff a try, and let me know what worked and what didn't.
------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 12-04-2000).]
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SAW;
Check out some of Hangtime's threads on gunnery. They would be a couple of months old now. He questioned bullet dispersion.
Hangtime initially questioned it, then a lot of others realized that basically under G load your bullet dispersion is much greater comparing version 104 to 103. If you are under very light G's your dispersion is tight, but at about 2.5 G's the dispersion really tends to spread out. Getting worse with more G's.
This has something to do with bullet trajectory and cones of fire. Meaning each sequential bullet does not follow the same exact flight path. Picture a cone shape formed outward from each gun where most of the bullets would strike nearest the center of the far end of of the cone.
Some how version 104 changed the weighted average of where bullets would strike. It gets really noticeable under G load. Pyro mentioned that this weighted average variable will be modified in version 105 and hopefully help us bad shots out a bit.
Good Luck! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Best is the trash talk. Severly and viciously going after your enemies, their mothers, and their shabby sheep."
StSanta
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Saintaw;
Like I stated in the first 1/3 of this post;
Based on what you have described, your problem is most likely either your ACs trim or your joystick.
Lephturn just covered trim pretty well. If your AC is way out of trim, you can blow the easiest shots because you are constantly fighting your plane. IE. Your plane is trimmed for 160 and you are going 300. To shoot level at this speed you must push the stick forward quite a bit just to keep her level because it wants to climb like mad.
Definitely look at your joystick setup, however.
Joystick setup:
Fly behind the offline drones. With your plane trimmed to the speed of the drones, + maybe a little more up trim for the gentle turn, try to keep your pipper on one of them. Don't shoot, just try to track them. If you can't, it's not an indication that YOU suck, it's an indication that YOUR JOYSTICK or it's setup sucks.
#1. Make sure that your joystick has been calibrated in windows.
#2. In AH, click on SETUP, JOY STICK and then CALIBRATE. Follow the instructions.
#3. Now look at the little graph. Adjust the deadband and dampening sliders for your roll. Note the colors in the graph, white=roll, red=pitch, green=rudder, teal=throttle.
Hit Apply after each adjustment. Try to get each slider as low as possible without seeing white spikes on the graph. Take your time on this.
#4. Click on pitch and repeat the process. If you can't get the white and red lines on the graph to go steady without moving the sliders beyond 15 to 20%, swear at your %$#@& joystick and go buy a new one (Or clean the pots, or send it back.). You will never be able to hit a thing with a joystick that spikes badly, or that had an induced giant dead spot in the middle. In fact, you may do better hitting a turning target than a level one with a crappy stick.
#5. Adjust your throttle and rudder settings in the same way, if you have them. (If you don't have rudders, GET THEM! I can't shoot worth beans without rudders. I am sure that my hit % would drop by well over ½ if I didn't have rudders.)
#6. I also recommend moving the 0-90% sliders for the pitch setting so that your stick is less sensitive toward the 0% (middle). Make the diagonal red line in the bottom graph curve up. This will allow you to make finer pitch adjustments when you are dead on a guys six.
eskimo
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Lephturn
In answer to your question earlier in the thread about convergence settings for .50 cal guns. I myself put all guns to 300yds.
It seems to be a good range for me since my hit% is usually 8% or higher.
I should try 250yds and see what happens there.
Bane
13th TAS
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Thanks Bane. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I've been trying 375 for all, but I'm thinking of going in closer. I'm not a good gunner, so I usually run around 5%.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
BTW, what are you guys using for convergence settings in the .50 cal planes like the Jug? I have been using 350/375/400/425 going from outer to inner (so they cross) but I'm not sure that's best. I get lots of hits but also get lots of assists. I'm thinking of going with them all together at 350.
In the 51, I've just changed all my convergence to 325. If I just consider my A2A gunnery % I am probably around 9%. Unfortunately, my newest passion is deacking a field with a Chog or Stang and thus my % has gone down considerably (about 6.7%). Deacking a field is a GREAT way to improve your gunnery since the target isnt moving but you have to correct and refine your aim quickly, shoot and then evade.
-DIng
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 12-04-2000).]
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I too started the Jabo addiction, and found it helped my gunnery. (Unfortunately the way the score system is now my % shows as much lower than it really is.)
I'd say the keys to good gunnery are to get close (<300 yds), be fast, use no rudder, get in plane with the target, and fire short bursts. Another trick that works quite well for any plane with multiple gun pairs is to stagger the convergences. Make the outside pair converge at 400 yds, middle at 350, inside at 300. ( I find that outside pair at longer range is better than the other way around.) The benefit to this is that if you BnZ a target at high speed and open fire at 400 yds, you will have at least 2 of your guns passing perfectly through your pipper. (At 1g of course.) Even for deflection shooting the hit percentage is slightly higher as your bullets pass through a larger area.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Bloom,
The problem I had with that setup is that I was becoming "assist boy". I'd hit with a gun or two, but miss with others, and even if I did hit the hits were spread out all over the plane. I hate that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I think I like this better, and it makes it easier to aim the bullet stream using tracers when they all converge at the same point.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Ok, here is my contribution (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://www.navegalia.com/hosting/000e0/illumm/190a5.bmp)
I did this one as a mix of Flakbait and Lephturn sights. I liked the sight of Flakbait because it showed the distribution of fire I can expect, and I liked the Lephturn's sight because it indeed enhanced my deflection shooting visibility (that it has improved my gunnery or not...thats a different matter,I am a lousy shot. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
So, I mixed both concepts,changed color, and added a couple of lines. This sight works just great in Fw190A5 and A8. I guess it will work just as great in any other plane except 109s (cramped cockpit makes impossible to reach the head elevation needed to center the dot).
I chose the red color because:
A)it shines over any terrain possible
B)as the sight needs the head in a high position ,the reflection sight makes the sight "fade". with this comparatively "strong" color, the fade away is lessened.
then ,and by last, I added two diagonal reference lines. I noted they enhanced a bit measuring the angle of deflection.
I hope you like it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) And ty lephturn for telling me how to edit those things!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Luke Skywalker (edited 12-04-2000).]
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I am suprised that no one has mentioned the effects that internet connection quality and net lag can have on gunnery.
In aces high and brand "W" I have gone through periods where I just can't seem to hit anything.
I used to think that I was in a slump if you will, but I think it may have more to do with net lag and quality of connection.
With a marginal connection, dead 6 shots seem to be the least likely to be effected.
If I get too close to a con, they are likely to warp (though it is probably my connection that is bad), so I try to shoot from farther out. Another advantage from shooting from farther out is most guys try to time their defensive moves to when they think you are going to shoot, and don't expect you to shoot so soon.
I primarily fly planes with 50 cal's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and have noticed that they are pretty effective at 500yds or so (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
gospel
332nd flying mongrels
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Unless the other fellow is visibly warping around, your connection quality should not matter at all. All you have to do is hit the picture on your FE. The hit detection is done on your FE. Shoot the picture of him and it hurts him, it's that simple. A higher degree of lag will mean that you are seeing what he did with a longer delay, but that's all. As long as the target is moving smoothly and you can hit him, you will get results. Hit packets go out as TCP I believe, so they will be re-transmitted if required. A bad connection will mean it may take longer for that damage to register and for you to see the results, but it will be transmitted.
If you are seeing hit sparkles and not seeing any results, there may be another problem. When you see this be sure to film it if you can. Then do some traceroutes and we'll try to troubleshoot the problem. Doing things like disabling V-snych has caused problems like that in the past.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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I seem to set my convergence a bit further out than most.
My convergence settings:
Tiffy: 650 outer, 500 inner.
20 mm hispanos seem kill anything pretty fast when you are close, even when you only have one set of guns hitting your target. With, relatively, a bit of Jabo work this tour, and a lot of high angle deflection shooting, my hit % is about 11%.
P-47: 650 and 550 for the outer quad, 450 and 350 for the inner quad.
I often use the Jug for ground attack and fire the outer quad at long range, add the inners in mid range and inner only up close. I try to do this be it air to air or air to ground. The long straffing runs seem to go much better when you have the option of shooting from way out when things look good.
Spit IX: 20mm at 500, 50s at 400.
In tour six I flew the Spit IX almost exclusively. My hit % that tour was 22.88%.
I think that long range convergence works well at all ranges. Close convergence does not give you the option of shooting well at longer ranges.
eskimo
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P.S.
I use stock gunsights only, and think they work just fine.
Lephturn;
My theory on assists:
Cannons get you kills, MGs get you assists.
It sucks, but it's too often the truth.
eskimo
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Eskimo,
While it's true cannons are more deadly, I've found a big difference in lethality depending on convergence. I find setting all guns to 375 I am getting more kills and less assists than I did with my convergences spread out between 350 and 425. Quite a big difference it seems... the snapshots seem to pay off now where they didn't before. Just my impression.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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I think that long range convergence works well at all ranges. Close convergence does not give you the option of shooting well at longer ranges.
Actually Eskimo, if you read some of the other threads by Andy and others, it is just the opposite. A close convergence gives you the option of killing far out, but a far convergence will cause misses in close.
In general, due to cone of fire and bullet dispersion, a given setting is effective out to twice the convergence range. I set my guns to 300, with the knowledge that I won't be needing to shoot past 600.
Having a close convergence is a good psychological tool to teach you to hold your fire until you get nice and close.
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I'll try closer convergence and see how it works.
eskimo
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Tried it,
Hated it.
650 and 500 seem to work much better for me for attacking armor with the Tiffy. They still work well in air to air, and don't spray quite so wide when straffing Osties. At 450 and 300, dust would puff up on both sides of Osties at the same time.
eskimo
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Well no wonder. I was talking about air-to-air. For ground attack with cannon, I use 600 also.
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Saw fly in the canyons and find some walls nearly 90 degrees shoot at them pull some Gs it help me.