Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKWeav on November 02, 2004, 06:22:24 AM
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Well it's not quite the super killer everyone thought it was gonna be. It's easy to lose a con in the forward canopy frames, no wep, and the guages are hard to read (at first). It goes through ammo like a five year old goes through a bag of cookies, and it sucks gas like an arab's wet dream so ya gotta take a full tank or drop tank.
However I am having a blast flying it. I think it's mostly because it has the latest graphics updates. Just seems to be more of an emmersion factor I guess. Think I'll stay in it for the month and see if I can learn it better.
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Joke plane...
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ummm...which IS the fuel guage?
TOUGH to figures those guages out in that plane.
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Edit- Storch if you want to keep tossing out bait, it's going to be on another board. Consider yourself warned.
-Pyro
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ummm...which IS the fuel guage?
It's the guage just to the left of the ammo counter.
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I thought the fuel lasted as well as most. It doesn't seem to burn it as bad as an LA7.
View is tough, but doable. After the first flight the gages were easy enough.
She does go through the cannon like crazy.
Now lets talk flying characteristics.
Climbs like a rocket.
Fast it rolls like Oprah stuck on her back when she was fat. I didn't like it fast.
Slow it seems to do some amazing stuff. Over the top flaps out she'll turn on a dime.
I think the more people learn the nuances of this plane the more deadly it will become.
I liked it and will fly it more once the new plane smell wears off and everyone stops flying them.:D
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Killed my first one on my first hop of the month; first plane downed. The B24J that was taking off was the third kill that hop.
They taste like chicken :)
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I'm experimenting with it...
First impressions...
It don't like knife edge, flappin-turn fites.It's slow speed stability is poor.It's flaps deploy only at very slow speed(too late in deployment compared to other planes when in tight combat).It suffers from no WEP.
It does dive well though and it's climb is very good too.High speed turns are excellant with little compression.The ammo loadout is excellant(lots of hi-cal bullets and good supply of cannons).It has a very nice cockpit and display.
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My initial impressions are that it turns very well. I would guess it can hang with a Spit 9 at low speeds. The flaps make it good at slow speed vertical manuevering. Firepower is fair, not outstanding.
Acceleration and climb are very good.
Above 350 mph, the plane gets very stiff on all controls. Around 450 mph it sheds the ailerons. So my impression is it can't dive for ****.
I rather like it, but I can see why people expecting it to make about 350 on the deck wouldn't.
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While the MA went berserk with the server dumps, people migrated to the TA and we've had some extensive combat testings in the Ki-84.
Acceleration characteristics are superb. At take off roll the plane goes from 0 to 100 mph in 8 seconds. Overall between 0 to about 300 mph it boasts great accel, but the limited 324mph top speed at deck quickly takes over.
Roll characteristcs are poor. Pretty hard to manage even at moderate speeds, and a 360 degrees full roll under 200ft altitude over 300mph can cause deadly accidents.
Stability is excellent. The plane is very stable in all axises down to 200mph. Under 200mph, when it reaches about 165mph IAS the plane can use flaps. The increased efficiency of maneuvering at low-speeds with flaps are easy to tell, as it feels immediately different from other planes' flaps. Personally, I feel that the effects of the combat flaps on the Ki-84 are even more noticeable than the P-38 flaps.
Turning is also excellent. Overall the excellent stability helps greatly in turn fights. In a left turn a Ki-84 can follow and gain a firing solution against a Spit9 indefinately. After repeated mock combats against a Spit9 my conclusions are that the Ki-84 turns almost exactly the same, or very very marginally worse than the Spit9.
However, in a right turn, at low speeds, during stall/turn fights, this plane suffers serious stability issues.
While the plane will gently "mush" through impending stall signs such as roll axis destabilization and continue the turn if it is to the left, during a right turn it frequently meets destabilization and the plane keeps "tipping over" to the left, discontinuing the turn, due to stalls.
The structural durability is somewhat suspicious. Over 400mph IAS, at some point near 430 IAS-ish I believe, I've experienced numerous occasions where the ailerons, or the elevators ripped off. However, whenever a test was attempted to confirm its limits, the plane kept its parts even upto 475mph IAS during a dive.
Fuel endurance is excellent. More than 40 minutes flight time at deck at full power. This is noticeably longer than most fighters. At altitudes with slight decrease in RPM and throttle the flight time easily extends over 100 minutes.
Haven't done controlled dive tests yet, but my impression is its quite good.
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Tried it once and got 5 kills (1 was a goon :-P). It's ok plane, not what it was in AW for sure. Kills pretty quick, good power and ballistics (of course I always get in close). Not that great real slow, feels kinda like Niki at higher speeds. Lacks the WEP it needs. Only took 75% fuel but seemed to fly for quite a while and got ganged (5:1) before I ran out of fuel. All in all I give it a 7.2.
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Originally posted by storch
Edit- Storch if you want to keep tossing out bait, it's going to be on another board. Consider yourself warned.
-Pyro
Oh I see anything other than an atta boy to you guys is taboo. consider yourself with one less subscriber. In time someone else will replace your game and perhaps they will model both sides faithfully you hack.
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Edit- No need for insults.
-Pyro
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My only flight was when I was testing the water effects. Beautiful cockpit, haven't figured out the gauges, we'll try it again tonight.
Good stuff.
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Yup. Flew it offline and was impressed. Even without wep it'll be a nice plane once we get the hang of it.
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Ok, did a little more fighting with it.
In a sustained turn at around 180 mph, it will not out turn a P-38. This means it is safe to say you will have a very hard time out turning a Spit 9 in a sustained turn, so I guess you could say I disagree with Kweassa there.
However.. the low (and I do mean LOW) speed handling is superb. In a "stall fight" the Ki84 handily whipped the P-38 and the Spit 9, because it is relatively stable down to about 70 mph. You have to try to keep the manuevering nose to nose though, it doesnt do as well nose to tail.
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Haven't you guys ever thought that maybe HTC under programed it on purpose so they can "work it up" instead of having to "work it down"? That way it's not such a shock to the overall game play in AH2. I think more people would get upset if the plane got weaker as time went on, as opposed to getting stronger.
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When in a slow turn fite,not only will the flaps not deploy(in time),you will stall the plane out(or spin) before you can get a single notch of flap out.
It is uninspiring(an very vulnerable) at slow speeds.
It is a true high speed plane.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Ok, did a little more fighting with it.
In a sustained turn at around 180 mph, it will not out turn a P-38. This means it is safe to say you will have a very hard time out turning a Spit 9 in a sustained turn, so I guess you could say I disagree with Kweassa there.
However.. the low (and I do mean LOW) speed handling is superb. In a "stall fight" the Ki84 handily whipped the P-38 and the Spit 9, because it is relatively stable down to about 70 mph. You have to try to keep the manuevering nose to nose though, it doesnt do as well nose to tail.
The first notch of flaps does not come out until 167mph so at 180 you are flying only on the wing only..
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All in all its not a bad ride, as stated numerous times above it suffers from a lack of overall speed. I did notice how quickly it gets airborn...in my "prepatch" hop it ran out of E easily however with the patch it did much better.
If your high (10-20k) and can control the fight its not bad at all...as you get forced down to the deck extracting yourself is exceptionally difficult in a furball. I had a 5 & 4 kill hop, but died both times I got to furballing on the deck...once your low & slow you cant seem to get enough E back (after all top end is 323 or so) to regain reasonable position...since itsstructurally limited you really cant take full advantage of alt either...also as mentioned roll rate sucks at speed...not competitive with the "big five" and has little or no chance against a well flown F6F in scenario use (IMO)....personally think the Ki-61 a much better plane as currently modeled.
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Yes, the challenge you'll have in the Ki-84 is bleeding off speed fast enough to be able to drop those flaps. Vs the P-38 and Spit 9, the Ki-84 loses the merge pretty badly (you cant even pull full blackout at 300+, that how stiff the controls are at even moderate-high speeds). After the merge if you can dump some speed you will be all right.. the Ki-84 handles very nicely below 150 with both notches of flaps down.I'm not exagerating when I say the plane will fight at 70 mph.. it can fly slower than a P-38 can. Once you get down to about 50 mph, the nose has to come down, but you can still control which way it'll go down.
It is a wonderful stall-fighter, but I don't think it will manuever with a Spit 5. It would have a very difficult time staying alive while the speed dropped below 120 or so.
It doesnt make for a very good high speed fighter in my opinion... all the controls are extremely stiff above 350 (they start stiffening up at 300 or so), and around 450 parts of your plane will start falling off.
I like it, but I suspect it won't be very popular in the MA. It lacks the extraordinary firepower of a Spitfire 9, and while it is better handling at very slow speeds, nobody flies that slow in the MA anyway.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I like it, but I suspect it won't be very popular in the MA. It lacks the extraordinary firepower of a Spitfire 9, and while it is better handling at very slow speeds, nobody flies that slow in the MA anyway.
It has better guns than spit9 while it lacks the spit9's low speed turnabillity...You have it backwards i think.
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It felt like a hurricane 2c with 2 cannons removed.
The cockpit framing is worse then I feared.
The wing skins look like low resolution? As does the interior cockpit framing.
Very nimble. Although I was able to out stall fight two of them on the deck in a hog c.(I had help)
I was expecting a plane that was a 9 out of 10 as far as WW2 fighter planes go. This one is a 4
Its the slow version, the lightly armed version and a poor frontal view.
The plane needs more generous numbers. I cannot imagine that as it is the USAAF would have been impressed with it at all either in test or combat.
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The Ki-84 is a complete deathtrap in the MA. To fight effectively it has to keep the speed under 150mph, which means it should slaughter WWI biplanes, but even the A6M2 should easily defeat it, though it can at least run from the A6M2.
Either the Ki-84 is the most overrated WWII aircraft, by huge, massive numbers of miles, or this flight model is a joke.
To even begin to claim that the Ki-84 as modeled in AH is effective is laughable. The N1K2-J is better in all ways except for speed at altitude and cockpit visibility, and only by a little in both cases. The N1K2-J is more manuverable, has much better firepower, is significantly more durable and handles highers speeds vastly better. The Ki-84, contrary to my hopes, weakens the Japanese planset for scenarios, not strengthens it.
We'd be better off if they hadn't added the Ki-84.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Yes, the challenge you'll have in the Ki-84 is bleeding off speed fast enough to be able to drop those flaps. Vs the P-38 and Spit 9, the Ki-84 loses the merge pretty badly (you cant even pull full blackout at 300+, that how stiff the controls are at even moderate-high speeds). After the merge if you can dump some speed you will be all right.. the Ki-84 handles very nicely below 150 with both notches of flaps down.I'm not exagerating when I say the plane will fight at 70 mph.. it can fly slower than a P-38 can. Once you get down to about 50 mph, the nose has to come down, but you can still control which way it'll go down.
It is a wonderful stall-fighter, but I don't think it will manuever with a Spit 5. It would have a very difficult time staying alive while the speed dropped below 120 or so.
It doesnt make for a very good high speed fighter in my opinion... all the controls are extremely stiff above 350 (they start stiffening up at 300 or so), and around 450 parts of your plane will start falling off.
I like it, but I suspect it won't be very popular in the MA. It lacks the extraordinary firepower of a Spitfire 9, and while it is better handling at very slow speeds, nobody flies that slow in the MA anyway.
The spit 9 has better guns and much betyter medim to high speed handling. The spit also has much better transition speed handling and turning, which is so important on the merge.
As for the spit V, the 84 can just about hang with a decent Spit V in a low low speed stall fight against a guys who knows what hes doing. I'd imagine it would eat up a would eat up an average MA player in a spit V though.
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Umm I fly slow in the the MA all the time.
I've been in bombers for the most part reasently but when I do up a fighter I prefer the A6M2. :) So it sounds like the KI may be my new fighter of choice, I will have to try it more after I get done with the new bomber toy. :D
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Flew th Frank last night. I'll stick with my beloved Pony, thank you, whenever possible.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Ki-84 is a complete deathtrap in the MA. To fight effectively it has to keep the speed under 150mph, which means it should slaughter WWI biplanes, but even the A6M2 should easily defeat it, though it can at least run from the A6M2.
Either the Ki-84 is the most overrated WWII aircraft, by huge, massive numbers of miles, or this flight model is a joke.
To even begin to claim that the Ki-84 as modeled in AH is effective is laughable. The N1K2-J is better in all ways except for speed at altitude and cockpit visibility, and only by a little in both cases. The N1K2-J is more manuverable, has much better firepower, is significantly more durable and handles highers speeds vastly better. The Ki-84, contrary to my hopes, weakens the Japanese planset for scenarios, not strengthens it.
We'd be better off if they hadn't added the Ki-84.
Got to disagree, the plane is not a deathtrap...it's simply not Uber in anyway. Your not going to beat the other plane, you need to beat the other pilot. It offers a reasonable range of options in a 1 vs 1 fight however it is limited at the high end by rollrate, control stiffness and structural durability. At the low end its an amazing prophanger but is somewhat limited in pure turning compared to spits and other true T&Bers...I had no vis issues at all (but I'm used to various limited view planes like -1 hog) and guns are better than expected...got kills on both a B-24 and another Ki-84 with just 2 x 12.7 after 20mm ran out.
I'm a bit curious about the easy shedding of parts at speed...I've never read about that as an issue. Curious that the plane breaks up so easily...if you corrected that and added reasonable wep then you'd have a more competitive ride...but all in all its not a bad bird.
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I love the visibility and the guns. Those are its only good points though.
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Well, after some more fighting in it, here are some more impressions.
It handles beautifully slow. I'm not having any trouble with stalling it, at any speed. I got into a slow speed fight with a zeke (below 100 mph), and I was just about able to hang with him. I don't think two equal pilots would have the same result, but it is quite stable at low speeds.
Slow speed climb is outstanding... planes will have a very hard time roping one if they start at about the same speed and altitude. The Ki-84 can hanf on its prop like you wouldn't believe.
All in all, I think it is a phenomenal knife fighter, but it isn't fast enough to be competitive in a 1945 MA.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Ki-84 is a complete deathtrap in the MA.
I disagree too. Think of it as a relative equal to the 190A-5. They have different traits, but as an overall package they are similar and the A-5 is not a deathtrap, its my favorite MA ride at this point (the A-5 that is).
While I expected more just as you did Karnak, its only been available one day at this point, lets let HT and Pyro have some time to keep working on it before we discard it.
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Grits,
I like the Fw190A-5 in AH as well. It is vastly better than the Ki-84.
I'm sorry, but I just can't accept that the Ki-84 could not manuver with a Typhoon at over 150mph.
The Ki-84 is too slow and too unmanuverable to be considered anything other than a deathtrap.
You guys keep talking about it's ability to fight at 100mph as though that is even remotely useful in the MA or CT. The Ki-84 has no hope of forcing an enemy fighter down to those speeds and if it is at those speeds it is more of a straffing target than an air-to-air target for any fighter that chooses to whack it.
Who knows, maybe the flight model will be improved, but I doubt it. It took incredibly solid data for them to boost the F4U-4, and that is a perk plane. In every other case that I can think of the flight models have only been weakened when they've been changed. The Lancaster, Fw190A-5, P-47D-40, P-47D-25, P-47D-11, N1K2-J, F4U-1C and Spitfire Mk XIV all had their performances reduced. The Ta152H-1 has never had it's flight model improved despite many threads on the subject.
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My impression is its going to make a decent spit killer in a turnfight but thats about it..
Unimpressed with its guns and will be a very killable plane for my A5- A8's
Reminds me a little of the NIKs only with less uber guns
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well, maybe if HTC decides to leave this model of the Ki-84 like it is, they can make it with the same ENY values as the F4U-1 or P47D11 and bring in another variant of the Ki-84 which is a bit faster and has more cannons? and it have a lower ENY value to boot........sort of like the La7 and P51D............
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TC,
This Ki-84 never saw combat. It has no place in a WWII sim. No more than any wonderwaffe prototype.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
well, maybe if HTC decides to leave this model of the Ki-84 like it is, they can make it with the same ENY values as the F4U-1 or P47D11 and bring in another variant of the Ki-84 which is a bit faster and has more cannons? and it have a lower ENY value to boot........sort of like the La7 and P51D............
I agree completely TC...at an ENY of ~35-40 its a great option.
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i dont know if anyone mentioned this but that ki84 bleeds e very fast. I had one dive on my 38 probably 4k or more and i put my nose down and lost about 1k and i pulled away from it after it got withing 600. It held 600 for about 10 seconds but lost it after that. i use the same tactics i use on a nik when fighting it.
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I played AirWarrior for 3 years, WarBirds for a couple of months and Fighter Ace for 3 months, the Ki-84 that was modeled in Aces High is a joke.
It doesnt have enough speed, it's roll rate is horrendous, and it loses pieces parts way to easy.
It sure looks like the Ki-84 HTC gave us is the pre-production aircraft. Why model a pre-production aircraft? Is it just so Allied fighters remain dominant in the MA?
With all the threads about Ki-84 performance and all the research that went into that you would think HTC would have done a better job on this one.
Allied pilots had great respect for the Ki-84 but they would have laughed at the one we got.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
well, maybe if HTC decides to leave this model of the Ki-84 like it is, they can make it with the same ENY values as the F4U-1 or P47D11 and bring in another variant of the Ki-84 which is a bit faster and has more cannons? and it have a lower ENY value to boot........sort of like the La7 and P51D............
Hmm,
Faster than a p51.
More maneuverable than a spit9
More firepower than an f4u-1c
That would make it what, 150 perks?
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Originally posted by peregrin
Hmm,
Faster than a p51.
More maneuverable than a spit9
More firepower than an f4u-1c
That would make it what, 150 perks?
He never claimed any of the above. You made it up and put the words in his mouth.
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Originally posted by Elfie
I played AirWarrior for 3 years, WarBirds for a couple of months and Fighter Ace for 3 months, the Ki-84 that was modeled in Aces High is a joke.
Um. I'm confused. In what way does playing another simulation give you any experience with how a plane should perform?
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Elfie
I played AirWarrior for 3 years, WarBirds for a couple of months and Fighter Ace for 3 months, the Ki-84 that was modeled in Aces High is a joke...
Lol, you are basing and comparing the performance of a WW2 fighter on what you experienced in other video games???
Are some of you typing these complaints through the blurriness of your tears? Sure seems it.
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For the record then, several of you are forever forbidden to ever use the term "KI Dweeb" or any derivative thereof in refernece to an opponent that just killed you with a KI 84. Since by your own admission, a KI84 "deathtrap" killing you can only be from your opponents superior skill.
Further more you shall all pilots you kill ithat are flying in this plane since you believe it to be so handicapped.
(It's only been out about 24 hours - most of those with a modelling error. Personally I think this plane will end up in the top 4 once people get accustomed to it.)
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Originally posted by Puck
Um. I'm confused. In what way does playing another simulation give you any experience with how a plane should perform?
:rolleyes:
read my ENTIRE post dork. I went on to say:
With all the threads about Ki-84 performance and all the research that went into that you would think HTC would have done a better job on this one.
Same goes for you Furious.
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Originally posted by Karnak
He never claimed any of the above. You made it up and put the words in his mouth.
He said:
"faster and has more cannons"
It's true he didn't say how fast, or how many cannons, but:
1. I must have read 100 times (exageration) that the ki-84 should have been modeled faster than the p-51d.
2. The AH ki-84 has been rated more maneuverable than the spit9 by the majority of BBS posters who've reviewed the plane.
3. I assume that more cannons than 2 is 4. While 3 is also more than 2, it's assymetric and unlikely. So, 4 cannons + 2 MG is a bigger punch than the f4u-1c which only has 4 cannons.
If we got the above, it would certainly be a perked plane.
I'm not trying to insult anyone, pick a fight or make you (Karnak) quit AH, just pointing out that asking for the fastest, most maneuverable plane possible won't help much if it's perked.
--Peregrine.
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Originally posted by peregrin
Hmm,
Faster than a p51.
More maneuverable than a spit9
More firepower than an f4u-1c
That would make it what, 150 perks?
You forgot"Sneakier then the Stealth Fighter".
Why is everyone looking for a wonder plane? I just don't get it.
The MA should only have one type of plane and they have to be at same alt & speed for the guns to work.
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Why is everyone looking for a wonder plane? I just don't get it.
Cause some want to get in a ride that performs both like the P-51 and La-7 without having to withstand the "DWEEB" label.
Some people need to step outside and take a very deep breath ... and then get laid ... geeeesh.
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Peregrin,
Some people have posted quotes about it being faster. I think it's silly personally. I haven't seen anybody ask for it to be faster than the P-51D. At this point I'd be estatic if it were faster than the Fw190A-5. I had been hoping for La-5FN type speed, oh well. As to the firepower, the Ki-84-I-Otsu would not even begin to approach the F4U-1C. It would have four 20mm Ho-5 cannon with 150 rounds each. The Ki-84 in AH already has two of these cannon.
Originally posted by SlapShot
Cause some want to get in a ride that performs both like the P-51 and La-7 without having to withstand the "DWEEB" label.
And some don't get it at all but like to be derogatory and snide anyways.
You haven't the faintest clue what you're talking about SlapShot.
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Originally posted by peregrin
He said:
"faster and has more cannons"
It's true he didn't say how fast, or how many cannons, but:
1. I must have read 100 times (exageration) that the ki-84 should have been modeled faster than the p-51d.
2. The AH ki-84 has been rated more maneuverable than the spit9 by the majority of BBS posters who've reviewed the plane.
3. I assume that more cannons than 2 is 4. While 3 is also more than 2, it's assymetric and unlikely. So, 4 cannons + 2 MG is a bigger punch than the f4u-1c which only has 4 cannons.
If we got the above, it would certainly be a perked plane.
I'm not trying to insult anyone, pick a fight or make you (Karnak) quit AH, just pointing out that asking for the fastest, most maneuverable plane possible won't help much if it's perked.
--Peregrine.
then do not cut and quote what I typed to fit your need!
this is what I said
"well, maybe if HTC decides to leave this model of the Ki-84 like it is, they can make it with the same ENY values as the F4U-1 or P47D11 and bring in another variant of the Ki-84 which is a bit faster and has more cannons? and it have a lower ENY value to boot........sort of like the La7 and P51D............"
I did not say make it faster than any plane, I did not say make it perform better than any plane, I did not even say perk it, nor did I say make it have better guns than any plane. I really don't give a damn what you do or HTC does with this plane or any plane
from all of my sim experience in different sims, which I might add does not qualify for anything, the ki-84s modeled could intially run down a P51D but the P51D would walk away from them on the long run, when A ki-84 went up against an F6F the outcome was determined by the pilot's skill
a Ki-84 will not have 4 cannons and 2 machine guns I do not think, either 2 cannons 2 machine guns or 4 cannons
also when the ki-84 reached certian excessive speeds along with any japan plane it would break apart especially if you pulled mass G manuevers.......
I do not have an agenda here, I was making a suggestion to please both sides..........
TY Karnak, for trying to correct him and standing up for my comment/opinion/suggestion
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Originally posted by Urchin
However.. the low (and I do mean LOW) speed handling is superb. In a "stall fight" the Ki84 handily whipped the P-38 and the Spit 9, because it is relatively stable down to about 70 mph. You have to try to keep the manuevering nose to nose though, it doesnt do as well nose to tail.
I think the key to it's low speed handling is using the vertical with a ton of rudder, ala the p38. I was messing with the KI and was able to pull a double immelman starting at 100mph! Now THAT is what I call uber :D
This plane is way better than it's getting credit for. Just because it isn't the one all be all la7 killer some of us thought it would be, doesn't mean it is a crappy ride. It's still an EZ mode plane, but not enough to help the seal pups out, so go get back in your la7's... :lol
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Originally posted by Karnak
I had been hoping for La-5FN type speed, oh well.
Not having followed the long-lived Frank topic, I gather from this that there really aren't any good statistics on the operational versions of the airplane?
- oldman
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Took off with 75% fuel forget what the actual mins of flight was but on par with a pony. Climbs like a rocket. Views from cockpit good but it aint no pony. New dash and gages are outstanding. getting used to them and reading them well that will take some time.
Performance is about what I expected. A little more deck speed would be nice but only for a RTB. High speed handling is exactly what I expected and is accurate as far anything I have ever read on the subject or have experienced in any flight sim. Since I or anyone else here has never flow the real thing who knows for sure. Slow speed handling is outstanding as long as you dont horse it around. If your gentile with the stick and dont force it you are rewarded with a very docile bird. Yank it past the limit and your going to be fighting for controll. Especialy when turning right. But at least the snap spins I have encountered are VERY easy to recover from.
On my first hop I let it climb on auto climb untill about 15k leveled and did a few turns that is when I noticed you could not force it to turn. I put the nose down a little to get some speed up looking for the compression point. Got to over 500 in a shallow dive and never got any real compression controlls were very heavy tho from 300 up increasing as the speed increased. I noticed about 300 you could not pull enough G's to get to black out. Roll rate a speed is well slow but I expected that. Under 300 she is very nimble and docile if you let her fly. If you yank your gonna hate her. Get down to the flap speed and you will notice a vast increase in turning performance. All them fast Allied planes dont want to get under flap deployment speed in front of a KI84 cause they are toast if they do.
Fire power is outstanding much what I expected from my KI61 experience. Hosers will say the cannons go quick I know cause I am a hoser myself. But if you wait and get one short burst in real close your target is going BOOM.
2nd hop went to a furball got a couple kills. Ran low on ammo shooting at a b24. So I RTBed. 3rd hop back to furball. Climbed for a little while and before I knew it I was 17k over furball. High diving KI84 are going to be a common sight over furballs. They climb so fast you dont realize how high you are. Well I spied a goon and rolled over to pop it. It was pretty much a straight down dive throttle chopped rudder over as a speed brake. Well about 450 or so rudder said see ya. Know not to do that again. Missed the goon barely pulled out and got popped by a a20 in the vert was looking back at a 190 that I was roping a20 got me from above.
All in All a fun plane going to be a lot of fun in the MA. Level it wont catch a pony or LALA but dive in and make one turn MMMM Crunchy!!
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Originally posted by icemaw
All in All a fun plane going to be a lot of fun in the MA. Level it wont catch a pony or LALA but dive in and make one turn MMMM Crunchy!!
I don't think the Ki-84 can turn well enough at any sort of speed where it will force such a manuver to capitalize on the manuver. The P-51D, La-7 or Typhoon will simply break turn aout of the way and then leave while the Ki-84 does a huge arc trying to get back to it's intended prey. If the Allied fighter chooses to fight instead they can simply roll out of the way, roll back in after the Ki-84 has passed and then easily turn inside it and shoot it down.
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You haven't the faintest clue what you're talking about SlapShot.
I don't have to ... to understand that you are "over-the-top" or "off-the-hook".
You have been stomping feverishly in every single thread that has anything to do with the Ki-84. You need to chill out and present some convincing data (hard data) that would help with the situation, rather than frothing at the mouth and doing everything just short of pulling a "Storch".
My squaddie, Sax, had a problem when Pyro removed the WEP from the FM2. Rather than run all over the board like the tasmainian devil, we asked what it was that he needed to be convinced that the FM2 did truely did have WEP. Well, our other squaddie, Bohdi, came up with the goods ... hence the version of the FM2 that we have now has WEP.
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Good job Bodhi.
There were a great many threads about the Ki-84 before it's release. They included data that I do not have access to. Pyro made his choices and no I'm not happy about them. I never did manage to find any specific data on the roll rate or elevator heaviness, but the pilot accounts I did read did not make it sound as poor as the A6M.
Unfortunately finding the lock solid kind of evidence that you refer to is nigh impossible outside of US aircraft and maybe the Spitfire.
I know that I have been very agressive in stating my opinion, but your claims of what I wanted are only in your imagination and that is where you are clueless. Contrary to your claims I did not want a fighter that was in all ways better than the P-51D and La-7. Nor did I expect perfect high speed handling. Heavy controls at speed were a given and the performance I was hoping for was still far below either the P-51D or La-7. The performance I was expecting was about 340-345mph at sea level and 392mph at best altitude. Not nearly 380mph on the deck.
We'll see what happens, but whatever does more than likely resides in the hands of Japanese players andPyro's.
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but your claims of what I wanted are only in your imagination and that is where you are clueless.
I did not name names ... but for that I apologize.
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SlapShot,
You are definately right that I did not take this well or gracefully.
I will try to, um, moderate myself better.
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Karnack ...
Don't know if this will help, but if you want to get excited about a plane and find something new that does have decent speed and some teeth ...
... get in the P-47-D25 !!!
Due to the ENY limiter, and Nopoop's awesome skinning, I decided/forced myself to fly this plane and boy am I glad I did.
8 x .50 cals ... not quite the Mossies hitting power, but a buzzsaw nevertheless.
With a little bit of alt and/or some smash, this plane can chase down anything that flys (P-51, La-7, 109, 190, P-38). Excellent handling at high speed.
Low speed handling, with flaps ... it won't quite turn with the Spits and the Zekes, but can and will surprize the crap out of them if they take the P-47 for granted and any other plane too. If you miss within a couple of turns, its decent acceleration can get you out and back into the fight. I have no quams taking this into a furball with some initial speed.
Had a nice fight with a Ki-84 at 10K last night and waxed it pretty good ... same goes for 109s and 190s. If flown aggressively ... its a monster.
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I fly the P-47D-25 now and then, but I just haven't had any success in it. A few weeks ago Pongo and I were winging in it and you're right about NoPoop's skins, they're very good.
What is surprising is how much familiarity with an airplane helps you suceed. After flying the P-47D-25 with Pongo we took a couple of other aircraft, me a Mossie and Pongo something else. I found fighting much easier, and I know the Mossie isn't as good a fighter as the P-47, so it could only have been my familiarity that was the difference.
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Even though I've said I'd take my Pony over the current Ki model, one thing I have to say about this Frank: I just Luuuuuvvv the way it's engine sounds!:D
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
then do not cut and quote what I typed to fit your need!
this is what I said
"well, maybe if HTC decides to leave this model of the Ki-84 like it is, they can make it with the same ENY values as the F4U-1 or P47D11 and bring in another variant of the Ki-84 which is a bit faster and has more cannons? and it have a lower ENY value to boot........sort of like the La7 and P51D............"
I did not say make it faster than any plane, I did not say make it perform better than any plane, I did not even say perk it, nor did I say make it have better guns than any plane. I really don't give a damn what you do or HTC does with this plane or any plane
from all of my sim experience in different sims, which I might add does not qualify for anything, the ki-84s modeled could intially run down a P51D but the P51D would walk away from them on the long run, when A ki-84 went up against an F6F the outcome was determined by the pilot's skill
a Ki-84 will not have 4 cannons and 2 machine guns I do not think, either 2 cannons 2 machine guns or 4 cannons
also when the ki-84 reached certian excessive speeds along with any japan plane it would break apart especially if you pulled mass G manuevers.......
I do not have an agenda here, I was making a suggestion to please both sides..........
TY Karnak, for trying to correct him and standing up for my comment/opinion/suggestion
Whoa. Look I wasn't trying to criticize anyone, or put words in anyones mouth. No one needed to stand up for someones comments/opinions/suggestions.
All I'm saying is that the ki-84-dissappointed crowd is advocating for a faster, more maneuverable, higher firepower plane. Perhaps not the fastest, most maneuverable, or with the higest firepower, but enough to be easily more capable than any non-perked plane. Adding WEP (which I beleive Pyro said they were debating) to the currently modelled powerplant would probably make a good enough plane to satisfy most, while remaining unperked, but if a complete remodel was done, we're likely to see it perked, and perked hard.
I have no agenda. I couldn't care less if the ki-84 becomes a perked superplane or stays unchanged.
Finally, TC I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was trying to use your post as an illustration of the general discussion. If there was a button to quote small parts of 100 messages, I'd have used that instead. I didn't think ther was a danger of putting words in someones mouth if I was including the full quote (1st post). Pardon me, if you felt misrepresented, attacked ot impugned.
--Peregrine.
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Originally posted by peregrin
All I'm saying is that the ki-84-dissappointed crowd is advocating for a faster, more maneuverable, higher firepower plane. Perhaps not the fastest, most maneuverable, or with the higest firepower, but enough to be easily more capable than any non-perked plane.
That is absolutely false.
Please demostrate where this has been said. I have been, by far, the most vocal of the disappointed and I have never requested on insinuated such a thing.
You're putting words in our mouths.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Good job Bodhi.
There were a great many threads about the Ki-84 before it's release. They included data that I do not have access to. Pyro made his choices and no I'm not happy about them. I never did manage to find any specific data on the roll rate or elevator heaviness, but the pilot accounts I did read did not make it sound as poor as the A6M.
Unfortunately finding the lock solid kind of evidence that you refer to is nigh impossible outside of US aircraft and maybe the Spitfire.
<snip -- portions of quoted post removed as I'm only commenting on the above P.>
Just guessing here, but I expect the AH control performance (elevator heaviness, roll rate, etc.) is probably primarily determined by the size, shape and position of the controll surfaces. I expect the roll rate, for example, isn't a direct parameter in the model, but a consequence of the aileron size and maximum deflection. After the initial model I'm sure they compare the model performace to data on the roll rate of the inital aircraft, but I'm guessing that handling is most directly to statistics that are better known than top speed.
--Peregrine.
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Originally posted by peregrin
All I'm saying is that the ki-84-dissappointed crowd is advocating for a faster, more maneuverable, higher firepower plane. Perhaps not the fastest, most maneuverable, or with the higest firepower, but enough to be easily more capable than any non-perked plane.
Originally posted by Karnak
That is absolutely false.
Please demostrate where this has been said. I have been, by far, the most vocal of the disappointed and I have never requested on insinuated such a thing.
You're putting words in our mouths.
karnak, jeeze, I'm bending over backwards here to try not to offend, and your still jumping all over me. I spent like 30min posting that last one to make sure I didn't say anything unkind. And at the end I apologized to Tequila Chaser. Apologies on the BBS are rare, I thought that would count for something. Oh well....
1. Karnak, you are not the only person dissappointed in the ki-84. So "ki84 dissappointed crowd" does not refer only to you.
2. You do want the ki-84 to be faster don't you?
3. You've said you don't like its high speed handling, elevator heaviness, and roll rate didn't you? Doesn't that mean you would like it to be more maneuverable?
I'm not out to get anyone here, but if you still have a beef with me please PM.
--Peregrine.
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Well, Pyro did just state in the long "Ki-84 speed" thread that he now thinks that the roll rate is unrealistically low, so we should be seeing a change there.
As to faster, yes, but not that much faster. I certainly don't think it should be in the La-7 or P-51D class of speed.
I wanted it to be a bit more competitive than it is now, but my estimation is that there is a very large gap between where it is now and "easily more capable than any non-perked plane."
Right now I think we'll see it settle at about ENY 20 to 30. If the controls get lightened up for better handling at speed it will probably settle at about ENY 15.