Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Raubvogel on December 18, 2001, 01:26:00 AM
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I need a decent Spit pilot to get some tips off of ...maybe train a bit with.
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what kind of help could you possibly need in a spitfire :confused: if you fly as well as you do in say a 190 or a 109...you will probably rarely hear the stall buzzer in the spitfire...if you hear it at all.
that aside....what kind of help are you looking for?
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Will you settle for a sorry Spit pilot instead? I'm more than willing to go to the TA or DA with you and fly a Spit against you. :)
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Oh, I'm not looking for help to fly a Spitfire ;) I really just want to find out how they do a few maneuvers. The first is a HO merge where I just keep going, but the Spit pulls a 180 and seems to lose no E whatsoever. Next thing I know they are right on my 6 and gaining. The second is when you're on their 6 and they turn away from you. You keep going at full speed...they turn back into you and still catch you. Both moves seem to defy my understanding of the laws of physics and I'd just like to see how they're done and also practice against them. If anyone can spare 30 minutes in the TA please private message me.
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Raub can I get in on this also?
I would like some help in the same areas and if any P-38 drivers want to join in maybe they can help me with a few there also.
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Check private messages Nifty.
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I haven't flown the Spits much for a while but I used to get around 10:1 k:d in them when I was trying. I can not for the life of me do maneuvers like the ones you describe. I want in on this too. :)
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I don't know about the 180 and not lose speed but happy to make a target for ya! :)
S!
Rocket
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my advice would be to talk to leviathn. he's about the best spit pilot in AH. the best that i can think of anyway.
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Ok will work on putting together a little class that will go over nontraditional merges. :) Probably a class of 5 pilots to keep the confusion to a minimum.
Especially useful for the slower TnB planes merging with BnZ planes. You will be on someones 6 with a shot. Just remember to throw out the traditional wing to wing merge when you come.
Would anyone be interested?
Drex
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Sign me up!
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I'd come Drex. Always interested in learning something new, or practicing something old.
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I'd love to be there for that... Or at least see a bunch of films from the various participants if I couldnt make it.
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Yes please, and film would be cool.
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Count me in Drexy.
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Me too! Me too!
Can we say "master class"? I knew we could :)
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I hate to think that I might miss out on a class like this. But can you make a spot for me Drex?!
:cool:
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Drex, what on earth are you doing! You'll make us jugs driver's life even more miserably,doh! Ok, you can compensate this by sending me some of your jug films..
;)
-vector
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I'm happy to fly the B&Z merges in any B&Z plane against the spits. I've never had a spit approaching me on first merge than turn 180 deg and gain immedetially.
Yes I think the they can gain eventually once they reach a better level speed than the B&Z-plane, but that takes time.
They can aslo gain in a dive because they are good divers. But since a couple of months I don't have problem with B&Z-ing Spits at all. I'm more afraid of the Tempest and La-7.
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I'd like to see anything people have on fighting spits. I was going to do some 1v1 with nifty in a spit to see if I could work out some sort of strategy.
The problem I have is that if I'm in a co E merge with anything other than a latewar speed bird, I can't get any type of advantage on them, and can't get any type of seperation to get in a better position. I'm not a good 1v1 pilot as it is, but types of merges that work well against other planes just don't work against spits.
Anyhow, if anyone has film or wants to meet in the TA sometime, let me know.
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Thanks for the help last night Nifty. Figured a few things out.
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Originally posted by Apar:
I'm more afraid of the Tempest and La-7.
chmmm chmmm
Apart are you sure that you didnt forget any airplane ?
because if not .... i will shoot only 190 since new year to provide you knowledge about tiffie :D
:cool:
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Starbird,
What plane do you typically fly? Figure out the advantage that it has over the Spit and fight using that advantage whenever possible. Spits are dangerous, that's for sure, and they can be hard to hit, but they are typically really slow (or at least try to slow the fight down to increase their turn advantage on most opponents). Don't get caught fighting their fight, dictate the fight on your terms.. you can usually do that against a Spit (unless they come in higher than you).
-Soda
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For the past tour or so I was flying 190 a-8's to get some time in for bigweek.
Not the best plane for this type of fight, but I generally didn't have any problem with other planes. Just going 1 on 1 with spits gets me killed every time. Trying to keep my E, not turn with him, get him to loose his E, just doesn't work with spits. Doing the same sort of thing in the vertical doesn't seem to work with them, I always end up below. Unless in a g10, which that works fine.
The only way I can get a spit is if he's fixated and I can get behind him, or I pounce from above and he doesn't see me in time to break.
Basically, I have no idea what I'm doing when fighting one. :)
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:D , Yes Orel U killed me once in a tiffy, my bad ACM at that time and your very good flying ofcourse, ;) Salute!
Nevertheless I have had plenty of succesfull fights against them too. (In tour 22: killed 12 Typhoon's, was killed by 2, when flying the 190D9, one of those kills by is you)
And Orel, pls pls pls do only shoot 190 in 2002, I love fighting U,
:D
[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: Apar ]
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As a mediocre 109 pilot I fight many mediocre Spit pilots :D, and in that experience Ive learned that Spit9s are fearful, masterful planes.
Well designed, good high alt performance, superior maneuvering, great dive, great handling, nice guns, good climb rate.. and etc etc...
The thing is, you don't have any edge over a Spit9 if you are flying in a LW plane of the same era: 109G2s and G6s, 190A8s and A5s. 109s have better climb rates but the initial advantage is blown away very easily if you make one mistake. 190s have superior roll, but a fat lot of chance that will do u any good if you find him behind you close.
In contrast, if it is a 1 vs 1 situation, and a Spit pilot finds himself in a pinch, he can always start turning, force the fight into a frustrating stale mate, eternal game of tight turn Spits vs teeth gritting High Yo-Yos by 109/190s. That's how good those Spitfires are..
I find if in a LW plane going against a Spit, you are victorious if you can keep the advantage and odds to yourside. Shooting down a Spit comes later. Just concentrate on keeping the odds to you. Especially if it is a situation like planned missions or events, TODs and etc... Keeping the Spit neutralized is a satisfactory result enough. You don't necessarily have to shoot him down.
It is important to be more patient the Spit pilot - bore him to death if necessary :). If you don't find an edge you can exploit, do those near HO merges continuously, "pendulum" around until the guy gets frustrated and makes a mistake. Only after then u begin your attack.
Always engage only when you are higher. G2 might have climbing ability, and A5s maybe be as fast as a Spit9, but in a G6 the Spit9 outruns, outguns, outturns, outrolls, outloops and every sort of possible "out-" to you. Besides, even at co-alt situations, the Spits do same maneuvers any LW plane can do and lose less energy. The only solution is to begin with much higher energy state in the first place.
Of course, when it comes to ace-level good pilots, the story might be different. But in a mediocre level as I am in, :D, hey, there's no other solution :).
And also, the odds become a bit more favorable to 109/190s if it is a multi-Spit vs multi-109/190 fight, especially with 109s. In a 1 vs 1, a Spit is a tough opponent, but in a multi plane brawl, the climb rate edge 109s seem to have more profound effect as a whole. Somehow, according to my experience, the fight generally goes on until one moment you find all the 109s are high, and all the Spits are down low. :)
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It is highly advisable to fly with a companion if you are gonna fly a 109 or a 190.
Hope this little advice helped ..
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Starbird,
The 190A8 isn't the easiest matchup against Spits but I think you are taking the right approach. You need tou bounce him when he isn't looking and either get him to bleed E or dive away. Work on the crossing shots, get nice and close, and let him have it if he turns. Think of it as a ramming action where you avoid him at the last second. I kill spits all the time like that in 190's.
btw, taking 4*20mm in the A8 gives you lots of firepower, but also makes the A8 wallow when it has a lot of fuel onboard. Go light and take the smaller gun package, it still has lots of firepower for killing Spits.
-Soda