Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: thndregg on November 02, 2004, 08:39:12 PM
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Now it's getting on the verge of being ridiculous. Holding down the "Y" key only to calibrate your sight? What skill is there in that?!? Some of us that aqiured the skill of actually calibrating the sight now feel gipped. It takes skill to be a fighter pilot...DON'T GET CHEESY WITH THAT ALSO!!
THANKS..from an almost resigned member of the newly formed Birds of Prey Bomber Wing.
P.S. Some bombers HISTORICALLY did not dive bomb there targets in WW2...... read your history books
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Originally posted by thndregg
P.S. Some bombers HISTORICALLY did not dive bomb there targets in WW2...... read your history books
this statement almost invalidates you earlier comments.
the "old" way was no calibration in any way.
when the "new" way came along many gave up bombing, until they learned to dive bomb in heavies.
now the "new new" version is a comprimise between the 2, hoping in part i believe to stop the dive bombing heavies, giving them a chance to calibrate with some accuracy.
personally i dont bomb with level bombers at all (maybe less than 1% of all my sorties). i found i can not calibrate correctly, even though reading all posts, and help files posted. i dont do something right, and dont know what it is, but it basically negated bombing overall. with this "new new" way, i have a fighting chance, and welcome it.
but please dont think going back to the complicated calibration will help stop the dive bombing of heavies, it is what started it in the first place. there was NO reason to dive heavies before the complicated calibration started.
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Well if this way of bombing stops dive bombing heavys its because it takes just as little skill as the dive bombing did if not less. Now all you have to do is get to the altitude you want, let your speed settle, hold y for a few seconds and drop when cross hairs reach target.
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The previous way of calibrating was fine. If you couldn't handle it you shouldn't have been buffing.
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Originally posted by Flayed1
Well if this way of bombing stops dive bombing heavys its because it takes just as little skill as the dive bombing did if not less. Now all you have to do is get to the altitude you want, let your speed settle, hold y for a few seconds and drop when cross hairs reach target.
Which takes the challenge out of it. Before one had to learn to calibrate. Now that it has been made "cheesie" it takes no skill. Up , push, drop. Bring back the old bomb site.
Peace
Pillur
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hopefully now we will see more folks climbing to alt using bombers now they way they were meant to be. -
more bombers going up higher - more intercerpt - more intercept - more escort....
sounds like more fun to me.... :)
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
hopefully now we will see more folks climbing to alt using bombers now they way they were meant to be. -
more bombers going up higher - more intercerpt - more intercept - more escort....
sounds like more fun to me.... :)
exactly.
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This is my post from feedback and requests.
H.T. Bring back the calibration!!!!
Hitech I have never complaned openly on the boards about anything you have done to AH1 or 2, (only anoying bugs) and very few of these. I think your doing a great job and working very hard on making this an enjoyable sim/game for as many people as possible (and here it comes) But why did you have to change the bombsight calibration to this cheasy version of it's former self?
I have worked very hard to become a good bomber pilot and have gotten to the point where I could calibrate that sight and almost always hit my target .
I have been lucky enuf to be assighned the duty of bomber wing leader for the Birds of Prey and it gives me great satisfaction when some of my squadmates request that a target be blown to bits and I fight my way over to the target (usually in my 26's of doom ) and hit my target dead on and get that wonderfull praise for a job well done. I have even begun to hit those pesky moving CV's lvl bombing. First I was at 1 to 2k and sank 3 of em and my latest one I was at 10k, didn't sink it but took off most of the guns.
As it stands now I almost feel as though I'm out of a job. Befor this change us buff pilots were a rare breed we actually took the time to do a certain task well. Now anyone can bomb just as well if not better than I could.
You have given us the exceptional B24 and I love this plane but we now have a bomber with a heavy ord loadout good armament and a bombsight that no longer takes any skill to use and I feel cheap when I bomb now. And just so no one says then use a smaller bomber, I would feel the same way.
I guess to sum it up. People have to have some degree of skill to get kills in a fighter even I have some skill in them although not near what other people have. Why then take the skill out of bombing. And yes I realise that some people have trouble calibrating but then again some people can't seem to hit much with a fighter but I don't see auto locking target sights being instagated.
Well anyway you probably get the drift and I'm sorry to be so long winded but I do feel rather strongly about this and I know there are others if not many that feel the same way.
HiTech and please give this some serious thought.
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PS My brother Thndregg apologizes if he was a bit loud in his posting, thats just his personality.
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This seems like a re-run of the "dont ruin my fun" anti-buff rants.
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I understand the skill that went into having to calibrate - and I was the victim of of poor calibration many times when I thought it was perfect....miss a target by 100yrds or less:) Which sucks after flying for 1/2 hour or more to get to alt / target..lol
Anyway, the new calibration is a pleasant middle groud between the old point and drop system and the previous system. Honestly, in the several runs that I've done with the new system, I've missed calibrated a bit and missed targets.
In the sense of gameplay, when there are bombers coming in under fire - it's going to mak calibrating and delivering to a target harder. If you loose an engine to a enemy fighter - your speed and torque is all messed up - you have to even out your engines before recalibrating - all while taking fire.
Even at high alts with a fast bomber - there will still be some errors.
now, as a fellow Bop -
I think that this will be good for bomberwings, - you'll have more folks that will fly for the simple fact of "I have a chance to hit something" Heck I'll even fly some :)
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I like this way better .. 95% of my drops are on target ... I'm not seeing as many kamikazi /dive buffs any more .its brought back the fun in high alt buff runs .
Now i was good at the old Cal method but it left ya open too much for attacks on the turn around and recal time .
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
hopefully now we will see more folks climbing to alt using bombers now they way they were meant to be. -
more bombers going up higher - more intercerpt - more intercept - more escort....
sounds like more fun to me.... :)
[SIZE=12]EXACTLY Waffle!!![/SIZE] [/COLOR]
THIS is one of the most important things people over look in this game.
I spent almost a year if buffs waaay back when... getting good in them, going up to 37k in B17s and lvling cities and such. It was fun but not many could or wanted to bomb from High alt.
Now its actually fun for some who enjoy flying buffs and also enjoy being able to hit things from high alt.
Its fun to run missions like we did tonight. 30+ B24s with 14 P47s as escort hitting MULTIPLE targets.
Tonight, our mission took out the entire city for the Rooks, then went on to kill EVERY single one of their barracks on the Night/Rook front. And did so from 25k in B24s dropping 1 bomb on each of the barracks.
We actually accomplished something tonight. Other than just rolling dozens of bombers to some HQ we took off and got something done. And had fun doing it. And many where able to do things they previously couldnt.
I'm sorry for those who dont like the new way of lvl bombing. But this is a much better way for someone new to the game or even someone who always wanted to bomb from High alt and be successful, do so. Its good for the game and its a great move by Hitech. Most of all, its more fun for all.
I wont forget to mention all the fun the escorts had along the way. Killing the bad guys and protecting the mission. It was alot of fun.
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I have flown nothing but the b24 and some gv sorties this tour.
the bombsite is fun and not so cumbersome but limits insane targeting and retains the fun of good accuracy form higher alt while still having dispersion.
all good things and lots of fun.
bombing is fun again.
before it was like doing taxes.
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
hopefully now we will see more folks climbing to alt using bombers now they way they were meant to be. -
more bombers going up higher - more intercerpt - more intercept - more escort....
sounds like more fun to me.... :)
[SIZE=10]10/10 CORRECT[/SIZE]
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I don't mind much. Since the essential routine of a proper approach, and speed/alt stabilization is still required, the 'dumbing down' is just simplifying the marking process with a single key stroke.
However, this is not in anyway going to fix the low-alt bomber problem. People don't do low-alt bombing stunts because its too hard to aim things. People do it because under current conditions of the MA, (wildly tactical but non-strategical) there isn't any other target to really use bombers on.
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i disagree kweassa.
the low level thing only started after the calibration bomb site was implimented, before that 30k buffs was the norm.
remember 20k buff called out, TONS IB to intercept, knowing that buff could wipe you out.
i dont "bomb" because i can not calibrate well, and i think that low or dive stuff is beneath me.
now, i will consider taking buffs after a city. now that is just me, but i think there are others in similar belief.
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Personally I think the pilot should get his speed and altitude constant, and then move dials or input the data into the bombsight to drop its bombs accurately. The holding the crosshair still on a wave or tree thing is as dumb as holding Y.
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Waffle I have become good enuf in bombers to where I can shoot the cons down around me lose an engine and still know when and how to drop to hit my target. It just depends on how much time someone is willing to put into learning to lvl bomb.
And usually unless its a real short run or there are no bases in good locations with ord I usually fly at 10 to 15K, 5K min.
I think again that it is more of a time related issue. Most people in the MA just have no patiance. now you just have to get just high enuf above target , lvl to let speed settle and hit Y.
I don't know how anybody can miss with this system other than when I had 5 cons on my 6 and it was either defend myself or get killed and overflew my target but this seems due to lack of friendly planes at that base and me the only bish there. :lol
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the low level thing only started after the calibration bomb site was implimented, before that 30k buffs was the norm.
No. Complete wrong analogy.
The low level buffs were always in the game and they were always a problem. However, the 30k zig-zagging buffs with pin-point accuracy was pshycologically considered a much more larger threat because it was almost impossible to shoot them down as compared to the low alt ones, which were more or less easily dispatched.
remember 20k buff called out, TONS IB to intercept, knowing that buff could wipe you out.
What I remember is that there wasn't much of 20k buffs in the old game either. Seeing a high alt bomber was as much rare way back then, as it is now. The new calibration increased the numbers of low alt buffs, but had no effect on the numbers of high alt bombers at all.
The confusion you, or other people are having, is that the time line where a significant increase of the low-alt buffs in the MA was seen, coincides with the timeline overall MA numbers increased twofold. During the inclusion of the new calibration system the MA numbers have seen a dramatic increase from typical 250-ish to 300, 400, and eventually some 600 people during the highest peak of AH1 subscription.
The difficulty of calibration has no direct relations with the increase of the low-alt buffs. The low-alt bombers increased because the MA numbers increased, and with those numbers the gameplay of the MA changed drastically.
Before the critical turning point there was a certain standard between the people. In December 2001, AW closed. Six months later, May of 2002, AH version 1.10 comes out, which the calibration was first introduced.
AH has absorbed most of the old AW player base, plus many players from the stagnant WB - hence the AH phenomenon known as "the Exodus". Also, new generation of younger gamers first entering the flight sim world also flocked to AH since it was the only option left now. With it the MA gameplay changed forever. This was all in 2002.
Using bombers and GVs was never a serious part of the game, and it was mostly for kicks when I first entered the game in 1.05. However, the era of the "Exodus" was when the first complaints of how MA has changed began springing up in the forums. Veterans were disillusioned with the new
"dweebiness" and the overly harsh competitiveness between the countries. During the course of two years the veterans started quitting, and more and more complaints of "dweebism" sprang up like cockroaches.
In this environment the small-scale MA turned into a full-scale gigantic war where efficiency in obliterating your opponent became more important than just having air combat fun. This was when the gigantic jabo raids became firmly established in the game, people started whining about overuse of the "Big Four", and complaints about low-alt bombers popped up.
Large-scale strat objects have almost no impact in gameplay. The only thing which can be destroyed thay directly effects gameplay are field objects. And the bombers, are wildly inefficient when they try to hit stuff which pops up within 15 minutes. The field conditions change by the minute.
So, why are they flying bombers low? Why the increase? Because, people who fly deck runs don't see bombers as bombers, but as an overbloated jabo plane. It's basically blimping up the old massive Typhy raids into a much bigger scale - where a single formation of low alt bombers carry more ordnance than 20 Typhoons.
Basically, the increase of low-alt deck run buffs is an extended, b*stardized version of the old 'suicidal jabo' debate, nothing that directly concerns the difficulty of calibration. Even if the laser-guided bombsight comes back, these people who fly deck runs, will fly it in the same manner.
The difficulty of calibration may encourage or discourafe SOME of the bomber players, but it will not effect the main course of how bombers are used in the game. The dweebism of kamikaze attacks, the voluntary sacrifice players are willing to do to win a reset, and the absence of strategical targets - these are what drive people to do deck runs. Difficulty of calibration is only one of the factors, and by far not the largest one.
i dont "bomb" because i can not calibrate well, and i think that low or dive stuff is beneath me.
You don't bomb, because you don't want to miss some bombs, or spread the bombs out with long delay time. You don't bomb, because your expectations remain on a tactical level while using a buff - you want to pick out individual targets and kill them at a field, which you can't do.
now, i will consider taking buffs after a city. now that is just me, but i think there are others in similar belief.
That is how it is supposed to be. You're supposed to go after stuff like cities or factories. They don't change, bustling with enemy activity, like airfields do.
However, going after cities or factories are a waste of time.
If hitting cities and factories did matter, I'm very sure you wouldn't mind slight calibrating errors at all. You woul still be able to land some bombs on the target, and that would effect the outcome of the war.
And that, proves my point.
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NO i don't worry about spreading bombs with a long delay, i use a .45 delay when i attempt to bomb, but i miss by over an entire base width. when i tink i am calibrated, i drop, and the bombs are over 1000 yards off minium.
proving your point? no.
when i say "cities" i mean towns for base capture. right now, with even being 8k level bombing to kill a city on a mission i will miss with over 90% of my bombs, thus ruining the mission, and wasting 15+ people's time. it's either that or fly a 110 to attack the city.
we have a 99% better chance of capturing that base if im in a 110 than in a ju88.
with the newest incarnation of bombing, there is a chance i can damage the city somewhat to help the mission, and i look forward to that. a well bombed ju88 is much more destructive than a 110.
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woohh JB you said you were off but I had no Idea it was by that much. If I would have known I would have tried to help. I can't remember the last time I've missed the town at a base with more than 2 or 3 bombs usually out of the B26 load of 8 500 pounders.
Think of how it would feel if useing the old calibration method you could just about hit all your targets, obviously you know that it is a difficult thing to master and if you got good enuf with that system that you could hit your targets acurately 95% of the time. Then suddenly its changed so you don't have to try to hit your targets any more.
It would be like say having some sort of gided missile on your fighters and you just had to fire it at the nearest con to get a kill.
It now feels empty to me when I bomb a base. I don't have to try to hit it I just know that barring any fighter intervention strong enuf to kill me befor I get to target I will hit it.
So where does that leave me when anyone in my squad can bomb a target just as well as me and the rest of the guys in my bomber wing. In myop that was the point of having a bomber wing. We could gather togeather the guys that could bomb well and hit stuff that at the moment were to dificult for the Fighter guys to do.
Again it feels like my speciality/job in the AH2 world has been taken away.
Maybe I'ts my fault as well as the other buff pilots fault for not trying to train other virtual pilots in the art of bombing.
Anyway I don't think I can be any more clear on my position as far as this subject go's so
to you and all other posters on this subject. The AH Gods will do what they will.
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Most if not all people cant bomb properly because they do not keep their speed at a constant. If you calibrate and are still accelerating, decelerating then you will brick. You have to have constant speed. Yes opening doors creates drag and slows the bombers. Therefore open doors prior to bombing. It usually takes a full sector to come up to a steady speed.
check your e6b to see if you are steady. hint hint write down speed and alts of bombers with different bombloads. Then next time you bomb you will know exactly what speed you need to reach before calibration.
The new sight is weak. Its too easy. there was no way anything was that accurate from altitude. I used to enjoy the challenge of a proper calibration.
Oh yeah plz do something about HQ. you can knock it down takes about a zillion pounds of ord but then can be resupplied and back up before you make the turn for home. I think you should make the HQ unresuppyable but cut the time it is down.
Just another worthless opinion from me. lol See ya in the skies
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I'm surprised that the newest bomb sight seems to be easier to use than the previous one.
- you still need constant speed
- you still need constant alt
- you don't have to set target alt, but that's a non-realtime action, so doesn't require too much skill.
- you don't have to hold the crosshair steady. made holding down the calibration button less boring, but probably can't be considered difficult.
So why is bombing easier now? Pople were unable to click on the map? Keeping the crosshair steady was too difficult?
I don't think that this can really explain it. Two other options might explain the overall impression of easier bombing now:
- Calibrating the previous sight had some system dependency issues, zoom-factor of the clip-board, resolution or frame-rate, ... that prevented the sight to work for some. With these requirements removed it works fine now.
- Something else changed. Maybe the requirement for constant speed and alt has also been lowered?
Regarding usefulness of bombers:
- The new towns can be leveled by 4 formations of bombers in one pass, while maybe even 4 110s don't carry enough destructive power to do so (might be possible, but haven't see a town undefended long enough for good statistics)
- The new hangar layout makes it possible again for bombers to disable fighters. The hardened ack makes it more difficult for jabos.
Usefulness seems to have been improved. I am surprised that these options to support the war aren't used more (except by low-level runs with extremely high death-rates).
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So what is the point of pressing "Y" anymore if nothing else is required at the same time?
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good question...that probably isnt needed either...ill try it out.
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Pressing Y is now used in place of holding the sight in one spot on the ground to set your air speed for the sight.
and the sight now automatically ajusts for altitude, If you watch it as it travels over mountains it will move by itsself.
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Large-scale strat objects have almost no impact in gameplay. The only thing which can be destroyed thay directly effects gameplay are field objects. And the bombers, are wildly inefficient when they try to hit stuff which pops up within 15 minutes. The field conditions change by the minute.
LOL totaly wrong....
rooks went without dar for at least 1hour 30minutes last night (tuesday).
and thats becase we hit strat before hand.
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It was a rhetorical question... "why the press of Y is needed at all" since it requires no skill or accuracy.
It is like if there was a button in fighters which automatically took care of target's distance, closure rate and aspect angle.... one could just put the sight on the target at any situation and score hits. Not much skill required.
Another thing is that it seems like one cannot calibrate into a moving CV anymore since one cannot calibrate manually.
Would it not be possible to have TWO optional calibration systems? Just provide some carrots (accuracy maybe?) for the more demanding system. Or is the possibility to calibrate into a moving target like CV a carrot enough?
ps. Overlag,
Did you hit strat before some hand had time to hit it ...or before you hit the hand? ;)
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We had a pretty good discussion about the bombsight at the con. Basically, we feel we made the calibration routine too cumbersome and hard to learn. Now you probably won't agree if you have mastered it, but we spend a lot of time talking to people who are having trouble and have watched the effect it's had on gameplay so our perspective will probably be a bit different. As it stood, it was our feeling that most people could not effectively use the bombers as they were intended.
Our goal was that we didn't want 1 target 1 bomb accuracy and we wanted to require a good steady platform to get an accurate drop. It wasn't our goal to make it a very difficult thing to learn, but that is what we ended up with. I think that is really the distinction here, how difficult it is vs how difficult it is to learn. I don't think that it's really difficult, I just think it's difficult to learn. The problem in learning is that it requires a lot of setup time and because of the number of different things that could go wrong, it was difficult to figure out what you were doing wrong when your drop was off. People were willing to give it a few tries, but if they couldn't figure it out, they shelved that aspect of the game.
I think where we are now is close to the happy medium where we still accomplish what we wanted but we're not shutting people off from doing it. You still have to be careful and you can still mess up your drops, but at least now you will have a good idea of what went wrong. Before, it could have been anything and you really didn't know which thing it was and that was pretty frustrating.
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Would have to disagree Pyro.
It is now ridiculously easy to drop eggs on target.
May as well go the whole way and remove the need to press down the 'Y' key.
Rod37th took me up and taught me to bomb in one flight. First drop with him as 'co-pilot' I hit an HQ White Building from 27k.
In fact Rod posted his method on the BB under 'Bombing 101'.
Don't agree it's hard to learn, just hard to get right, after all one slight mistake and you miss. Bit like 'real life' I guess.
But I have been feeling the game is getting more 'unrealistic' as times goes on so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised by an 'easy' bombing mode.
Can we have radar guided 20mms next please ;)
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Originally posted by Pyro
We had a pretty good discussion about the bombsight at the con. Basically, we feel we made the calibration routine too cumbersome and hard to learn. Now you probably won't agree if you have mastered it, but we spend a lot of time talking to people who are having trouble and have watched the effect it's had on gameplay so our perspective will probably be a bit different. As it stood, it was our feeling that most people could not effectively use the bombers as they were intended.
I "masterd" it, although my dying joystick has kinda messed a few runs up. but im happy with the new system. Why? because i get more help now, bomber missions fill faster (maybe because of the b24 too...) and so far bombers seem to be CLIMBING for once.
Now all we need is something to stop the NOE ones maybe the bombs on 4 engine heavys shouldnt arm for 4k or something?
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Well I kinda had figured thats what you guys were trying to do Pyro and its great if you get more guys in bombers but this is so easy now with the old way I would usually take a load of 8 500 pounders in my 26's to hit targets so that I could spread them out a bit just to make shure I hit the target but as the sight is now I can load just a couple of big bombs and drop them perfectly on target, (every time so far).
It just seems way to easy now but I guess I'll live with what ever you guys at HTC decide and now my bomber rank should shoot through the roof.
And as far as noe bombers go the only thing I see wrong with that is the heavy bombers. I have no problem with the B26 JU88 KI67 and the other smaller bombers going noe but I would agree that the lanc B17 B24 need to stay a bit higher. If it were real life I don't think I would want to be flying one of those big tubs very close to the ground. :)
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Originally posted by Pyro
It wasn't our goal to make it a very difficult thing to learn, but that is what we ended up with. I think that is really the distinction here, how difficult it is vs how difficult it is to learn. I don't think that it's really difficult, I just think it's difficult to learn. The problem in learning is that it requires a lot of setup time and because of the number of different things that could go wrong, it was difficult to figure out what you were doing wrong when your drop was off.
That's completely right.
In my point of view the problem could have been solved by a better tutorial in the help file at htc and I said so in my bomber manual.
It makes sense for htc to put the Auto Calibration into the game to bring back bomber use but as Kweassa said much better then I could, it won't affect the more distasteful aspects of how bombers are used.
More importantly, the issue that brought us calibration in the first places, namely plinking FHs, is now a greater possibility again.
It will be interesting to watch what happens after the initial love affair with the B-24 is over. If bombers come back into general use without being used to shut down airfields again, then htc will have accomplished what was needed.
I still think the best way to solve the bomer problem was joining the strat targets together and making more zones to provide the strategic targets the bombers need. But that's just me.
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I'm sorry but the old bombsite was easy, if you held speed and alt. and the new bombsite is ridiculous. Good thing everything pops up in 15 mins.
You went to the easier bombsite because people were having problems??? What about the people who cant shoot straight??? gonna change the model for them? Bombing is now as unrealistic as dive bombing lancs. Maybe a few hours mandatory hours in the training arena for everyone woulda have been a better solution.
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The change in the calabration of the bomb site still does not give one a lazer site. If you do not watch you speed when you drop(e6b vs calbration speed) You will miss your target. The speed change difference only needs to be little over 2 MPH to effect the drop. My biggest problem was not with the calabration process but with the maintanting the speed of the aircraft at a constanct .
Now with the E6B and the indication of a speed value when setting up the bomb site it is now eaiser to make a successful drop on target.
JM2CW
DarkHawk (DHawk)
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constant speed comes from no throttle changes and level flight for awhile. I reccommend 1 sector. easy as pie
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Well from my experiance today I think we could be right back to major field porkage unless people decide that it's to cheasy, though I doubt that.
Today I uped a b26 with 4 1000 pounders took off had to lvl at 5k because of the short distance to target, turned on wep opened doors got my speed up to 265 and turnes off wep let speed settle.
Flew through the other half of the sector and (calibrated):rolleyes: droped 1 bomb on baracs, 1 bomb on radar, shot down a 190, turned around throttled back, checked speed, recalibrated dropped 1 bomb on ammo and the last on fuel.
All bombs hit perfectly. If I had taken a bigger plane with more bombs I probably would have had a good chance at killing the hangers to. As it was this was a small field and I managed to cripple it fairly good. If I had some squad mates flying with me that base could or would have been wiped out unless there was enuf fighter resistance to stop us.
I'll see how it go's tonight with more players on. But I will be listening for the whines of, our bases are porked.
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The E6B function allows you to almost "cheat" in a way when you calibrate your site. All you have to do is look at what the calibration speed is after you calibrate in F6 mode, then check your actual airspeed on the E6B. No matter how bad your calibration, if your calibration speed matches your E6B readout speed, your bombs will fall exactly on target, depending of course on bomb drift. All you have to do is get those two numbers identical or as close as possible to gurantee a good drop.
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Is there anyway the bombsight calibration could be a checkbox like tracers and combat trim?
The default would be "easy bomsight" checked, but if you really enjoyed the challenge of the more realistic procedure, you could uncheck it.
Perhaps to encourage people to try the more advanced system there could be some sort of perk point bonus for hitting accurately without using the "easy bombsight" ?
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I bet we lost alot of new ... players because of the Full Cal site ,
Now the New players have a chance to get into the game easier ,and not get disgrunteled after 1 or 2 buff missions.
I give it a :aok for Gaining Us New Victoms .
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Originally posted by Stang
The E6B function allows you to almost "cheat" in a way when you calibrate your site. All you have to do is look at what the calibration speed is after you calibrate in F6 mode, then check your actual airspeed on the E6B. No matter how bad your calibration, if your calibration speed matches your E6B readout speed, your bombs will fall exactly on target, depending of course on bomb drift. All you have to do is get those two numbers identical or as close as possible to gurantee a good drop.
and exaclty match alt? or is that not required?
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Rosco has a good point. And i think i we are already seeing it happen. (There are more bombers in the sky than we have seen since HTC added the Calibration system). This IS a good thing.
As for the Diving Buffs. I think the change is going to have little to no effect on such tactics. This is the "Gamey" part of the game.
Also i have known and experienced Connection spikeing and Stick Spikeing that made hitting the target impossible at times.
I like Rosco give it :aok :aok on the Rosco and MugZ scale :D
Thanks for getting these bombers back in the sky HTC.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Large-scale strat objects have almost no impact in gameplay. The only thing which can be destroyed thay directly effects gameplay are field objects. ......
That is how it is supposed to be. You're supposed to go after stuff like cities or factories. They don't change, bustling with enemy activity, like airfields do.
However, going after cities or factories are a waste of time.
If hitting cities and factories did matter, I'm very sure you wouldn't mind slight calibrating errors at all. You woul still be able to land some bombs on the target, and that would effect the outcome of the war.
For someone who writes volumes about this game, I am extremely surprised that you don't understand this aspect of the game at all.
Granted the game docs are not especially clear - but someone surely explained the strat system to you somewhere along the line?
Damaged/Destroyed strats keep field objects down for hours' http://www.flyaceshigh.com/ahhelp/map.html#targets In each Zone it goes like this:
City (Capital City) resupplys strats:
AAA
Ammo
Radar
Refinery
Training
In turn these strats supply
AAA on fields
Ammo on fields
Radar on fields
Fuel on fields
Barracks on Fields
You can also destroy convoys/trains - then any damage done isn't resupplied - but they made these things too tough so no one hunts them any more.
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Personally I think each country should have "REAL" targets...
IE a 262 (or perk plane) factory, A Tiger (or perk GV) factory etc...
I think if you nail the refinary then AV gas quality should go down (2% performance hit on all planes for ex). Right now you effect the war best by hitting bases...in RL bombers flew "over" the frontlines and hit the infrastructure. If a bomber strike knocked out the FlackPz factory (or other target)...you bet folks would scramble to stop it next time. Or if damage to the ammunition factory only let you load a 3/4 ammo load in your planeor PZ...again not enough damage to totally shut down but to penalize.
Another option would be "storage facilities"...all units need replacements...planes tanks etc all had interim storage "near" the front lines...how bout tank and or plane depots...hit em and plane availability suffers in that "zone"...basically a localized ENY instead of strictly a numbers based one.
Just my 2 cents....
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Today, I and my friend, azurSTi's 2 Ki-84 intercepted fuzeman's B-24 formation at medium altitude. His target was CV, we shot down his B-24s but he has sunk our CV.
That experience strikes us as fun and cool.
BTW I don't like heavy bombers always bombing bases at low level. I hope more bombers are flying for bomb from higher altitude. ;)
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now, i will consider taking buffs after a city. now that is just me, but i think there are others in similar belief. [/B][/QUOTE]
Count me in that 73, I tried to do the calibration route in the "new" setup when it required a physics degree and gave up after the first run
Now, I actually may take buffs up once in awhile, I tried a run this morning and actually hit a building with one egg, of course the other 19 eggs mostly just removed the bushes at the end of the runway, but heck, I hit something
NwBie
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Originally posted by humble
Personally I think each country should have "REAL" targets...
IE a 262 (or perk plane) factory, A Tiger (or perk GV) factory etc...
I think if you nail the refinary then AV gas quality should go down (2% performance hit on all planes for ex). Right now you effect the war best by hitting bases...in RL bombers flew "over" the frontlines and hit the infrastructure. If a bomber strike knocked out the FlackPz factory (or other target)...you bet folks would scramble to stop it next time. Or if damage to the ammunition factory only let you load a 3/4 ammo load in your planeor PZ...again not enough damage to totally shut down but to penalize.
Another option would be "storage facilities"...all units need replacements...planes tanks etc all had interim storage "near" the front lines...how bout tank and or plane depots...hit em and plane availability suffers in that "zone"...basically a localized ENY instead of strictly a numbers based one.
Just my 2 cents....
I assure you, in the real war bases were bombed and bombed and bombed. Ask the defenders of Malta. Truk, Henderson field, biggen hill, etc etc etc
If pyro did what you ask then the underdog country would be even more abused then they are now, and your example goes contrary to the reality which is the country under constant and sustained bombardment came up with the most "perk" rides including both that you mentioned.
Are you sure you have thought this out fully?
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Ya know. I really dont understand why half of your girls have your panties in a twist.
wtf is the harm in making it easier for newer or less expericence players to learn how to bomb?
You girls need something better to talk about because this aint going anywhere.
Bombers in the air in Massive formations spells only one thing. Fun for both sides.
Its fun for the Mission because you can all get together and drop bombs and NOW actually have nearly everyone hit what they are aiming for.
And its fun for the escorts because they get to protect the bombers in the Mission.
And its fun for the enemy who gets to have the pleasure of intercepting them.
EVERYTHING IS JUST MORE FUN THIS WAY.
So stfu. :)
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Sorry but to me this sounds like an "Im not getting enough pats on the back now" kinda thing.I know I gave up on Buffs when the new system started.Guess the short time I had to fly I didnt want to do buff 101 stuff.If it makes people use buffs more maby its a good thing.
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Well there we have it. No sophisticated overall game-play psychology - it was just too hard for those who have no perserverance, or lack the reading and comprehension skills of an 8 year-old.
Aw well. I can understand the reason for the change. God help us all.
I don't know what transpired at the con, but my instincts tell me that the user who found the calibration too difficult probably finds climbing to altitude too difficult also.
The former calibration method did give the user the feeling that they had some input toward a successful drop, real or imagined.
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Originally posted by ra
The previous way of calibrating was fine. If you couldn't handle it you shouldn't have been buffing.
It obviously wasnt fine since alot of people (myself included) couldnt seem to get the calibration correct. I repeatedly tryed to master the calibration, yet every time I would make my drop bombs either dropped long or short of the target.
Some people just dont have a steady hand, for others it might be equipment at fault. For me it was my hands just arent steady enough. I could never hold the crosshairs steady on a single spot on the terrain long enough for an accurate calibration.
I, for one, welcome the change in the calibration procedure.
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Iv posted on this subject many times, So Im not going to into alot of it.
The Thing that makes a good bomb run, and a good bomber pilot isnt the calibration sequence. Its all the mission planning, your route, picking drop altitude, getting a stable speed and alt, and having a good handle on the situation around you. All the things that made some guys good at bombing are still needed. The change just opens it up to more people.
HTC, Thanks for your efforts and I believe it will make bombers more fun for more people.
Pyro, If I could ask for one thing on this, would be to have the Cross hair calibration an available option (a clickable box, like the new water). It would then be available For those pilots that really enjoyed the challange of calibration. It would be nice for them to be able to continue that. It was pretty cool.
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Originally posted by streakeagle
Is there anyway the bombsight calibration could be a checkbox like tracers and combat trim?
The default would be "easy bomsight" checked, but if you really enjoyed the challenge of the more realistic procedure, you could uncheck it.
Streak, that sounds like a happy medium to me, anyway...good idea, especially about the perk bonus.
My apologies for microbursting in with my raw and honest attitude yesterday.
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maybe the new mode should be random...ie 500yards short or long ie missing hangers 1/3 of the time only the odd drop being RIGHT on target????
but the old way enable perfect drops? (if you good at it)
that way people still need to salvo bombs for a spread?..
i think the new mode is ok, but last night i managed to drop 8x1000lbs (x3) on the HQ main building fomr 24k... that sort of stuff doesnt happen today with SMART bombs.......
so maybe these whines are valid?
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Originally posted by Overlag
so maybe these whines are valid?
No such thing as a valid whine.
Unless of course it's something about the game I don't personally like---but then I guess that wouldn't really be whining.
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I think its like auto take off.Make your own choice but just because you dont get kudos for doing it manual,doesnt make it wrong.
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LOL totaly wrong....
rooks went without dar for at least 1hour 30minutes last night (tuesday).
and thats becase we hit strat before hand.
That's because the Rooks are gangbanged from the Knits and Bish these last two weeks. Insufficient fighters to stop large-scale occasional raids, much less even hold a front.
Besides, while it may not fit this particular case, in most cases losing the dar constantly usually spells a reset phase when the enemy has already dug in deeply into the territory which they can launch bombers or even jabos to strike the HQ.
Another thing to consider is that we're now playing on a small map. How often does one succeed a large scale raid that can take all the necessary strats down AND kill the HQ at the given time, when we're playing on OZKansas or Trinity?
For someone who writes volumes about this game, I am extremely surprised that you don't understand this aspect of the game at all.
No Zanth, I completely understand how it works. The "ineffectiveness" comes from how the procedure are set in order for bombers to actually effect the strategical gameplay in the MA.
When somebody wants to lauch bombers, how often do they target the fuel refineries or ack factories? Also, even if such individual action is taken, do the bomber pilots who attack such facilities actually think that its gonna do something?
Most usually attack on the refineries and facilities other than that has to do with dar, is a means of padding scores, not something that has to do with specific objective. You don't go bombing fuel refineries thinking "hey, if I do this again again, eventually the enemey will run out of fuel."
The MA fights revolve around field captures. Primary objectives for a strike are always tactical field objects. The large strat objects are at best secondary, only when a certain stage is reached(reset phase).
In essence, inefficiency of bombers is self explanatory - the MA is a living testament to that. If hitting the strat obhects actually meant anything in the game we'd be already seeing much more bombers in the air. Any strat target that lies deeper than 50 miles behind the frontline is a big waste of time, except the HQ.
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well I could live with some sort of bonus for bombing with the old calibration method.
I understand that not everyone could get that method to work and it's nice to see more guys trying the bombers. I Even have guys in my squad giving them a try now. But for those of us who did, it now feels like cheating when I bomb somthing.
Though if we did get a perk bonus it would be nice to have somting to spend them on other than just the 234.
Oh and an update on my bombing of targets. I finally missed a fighter hanger But then again I also just drank a 750ml bottle of wine befor I missed. lol
Btw how many oz is 750ml anyway?? :lol
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Originally posted by Kweassa
That's because the Rooks are gangbanged from the Knits and Bish these last two weeks. Insufficient fighters to stop large-scale occasional raids, much less even hold a front.
Besides, while it may not fit this particular case, in most cases losing the dar constantly usually spells a reset phase when the enemy has already dug in deeply into the territory which they can launch bombers or even jabos to strike the HQ.
Another thing to consider is that we're now playing on a small map. How often does one succeed a large scale raid that can take all the necessary strats down AND kill the HQ at the given time, when we're playing on OZKansas or Trinity?
. Any strat target that lies deeper than 50 miles behind the frontline is a big waste of time, except the HQ.
i dont think you understand my point.
NORMAL HQ downtime is about 10minutes due to the STUPID resupply system, the bombers sometimes dont even get out of the HQ sector before it reupps...totaly unfair but anything to please fighter guys........
anyway Festers b24 raids took out rooks cities down to 0%, then HQ was only hit two times, once by me and Octavius, no one upped to protect it till after it had gone down, and the of coarse they had trouble finding us. This helped a 2nd Larger (36x3) formation get deep inland. This formation totaled the Troop training strat, Damaged the Ord factory, all barracks in the area then finished the HQ off.
Result? Cities down for 2 hours, this ment the HQ and troop training strat was down 2 hours too. and with the troop training strat down, the barracks was out for 2hours..... So Strat targets ARE very helpful, if none of that work had been done the HQ / Barracks would have been up in 10-15minutes. Maybe you should read the manual about them ;) Oh, and with ord at 40% any fields without ord was down for about 1hour :lol
Now people may moan about the downtime being so long, but there was 4-5 HOURS of flights there, and ALOT of work done to get the whole system down. Personaly in 5 flights i only lost 1 bomber and im a terrible gunner. So Rooks deserved tuesday night they didnt (or couldnt) defend there strat and fell apart from the inside. Kinda like Germany in WWII, so busy beating Russia 100s of miles away from Germany that they forget about all the lancs/b17s/b24s etc killing them off.
And Rooks getting ganged???? thats laughable, we was ganging BISH at this time, only the B24 raids was hitting rooks, the reason rooks lost that night was because they was all fighting bishland and winning at the time..... Rooks could have tried something, but they didnt seem to botherd that there Cities and other factories was getting leveld.... probably because they thought they are useless like you do ;) Instead they continued to fight bish that bishes HQ instead of worrying about there own one.
The bombers got through, and bombers win wars, and the game DOES allow that if theres some planning
Hint: If a country sees a dar full of bombers coming in, MAKE a 109 (or whatever) high intercept *MISSION*, theres really no point having the odd one or 2 hitting the formation, would be much better if 10 hit it at the SAME time... But then they would need team work, and forward planning, its laughable how Bombers are left allone (baring the odd attack) until the bombers near the 163 field and then its too late.
Wow i never wrote so much and it probably makes no sence :p