Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Swoop on November 03, 2004, 01:51:25 AM
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That's the law in Britain now. Leave a red mark on your kid when giving the little git a clout after the rotton little bastard sets fire to the cat and you could go to prison for 5 years. Daaaaymn. My Grandad would take his belt off and use it.
I have no children (that I know of anyway) so my opinion doesn't count. What do parents think?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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WTG UK!
Ever the compasionate country and all......
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I think that's mickey mouse BS.
When my kids need a spanking I've got a nice leather belt that gets the point across, usually with only 1 or 2 licks, and they get thier spanking.
Depends on what they do.. time out standing in the corner, not let'em do something they wanted to do, spank thier butts. All useful tools in child rearing.
I think the folks that come up with these bleeding heart ideas and try to tie the hands of parents didn't like getting spanked.
Of course... some people seem unable to differentiate between beating/abuse and a good spanking/popping the kid's hand.
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That was on our evening news last night. They were horrified THAT BEATING A CHILD WAS STILL LEGAL in the UK after this law.:rolleyes:
Well, what do you expect... this country is run be feminists and lefties, especially the media.
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Parenting with violence is wrong, but a law for it is like one for abortion.
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Originally posted by moot
Parenting with violence is wrong, but a law for it is like one for abortion.
I'm gonna take exception to this...
you got kids?
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Its a great idea. Maybe the UK should get a whole bunch of colour surveilace cameras to check every passing kid for telltale "red marks" so their dastardly parents can be locked up for 5 years...
:rolleyes:
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Gonna side step your question and say violence is just proof to your kids you lost control and don't have any rational answer or example for them.
It doesn't promise much for their subsequent behavior when you set that precedent.
If it's got to the point that violence is the only understood input, well, good luck reverse-engineering..
The law thing is just a comment on laws in theory and practice, a separate comment.
No kids yet.
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I think beating someone is OK; when I was younger we merrily used our fists to make our will known so why shouldn't parents beat up their kids if they deserve it?
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it's the premise for that that I'm questionning.
Why is irrationality the better choice? Why don't teachers at school still use metal rulers on fingertips or public spankings?
imo there's some more intricate mechanics to it, but the bottom line is you're using a fallacious argument. Where's the credibility?
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moot, when ya finally make here to hang out with me, you'll find that I am very far from the violent type.
I was brought up in the old tradition and got my bellybutton beat frequently.
It's not the application. I don't support spanking to the point of abuse.
You can't equate one with the other, except in extreme circumstanses.
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Before anyone else starts going on about how it is wrong to use spanking or whatever to dicipline children, lets look at a few things. Kids have all the control now. You see it everywhere. Parents getting arrested for all sorts of stuff just because they pissed their kids off and the kid calls the cops making all sorts of accusations. Kids nowadays do stuff that I would have never even thought of doing..why because their whole lives there has been no real consequences for their actions. Do you think stuff like "time out" works on kids. Hell no. Ever since that damned generation that came of age in the 60's and 70's and started saying that striking children is wrong, more children have been involved in more of the most violent crimes. Growing up I had a belt used on me...but I can tell you that after I was about 6 years old the fear of that belt kept me in line and It was used rarely after that.
Second...if you are not putting bruises, cuts, breaking bones, or doing serious harm (concussions and such)..then it's nobody's damn business how you dicipline your child and for sure not the government's.
Third...People shouldn't have to be scrutinized and demonized so much for kicking a teenage punk's butt if need be. They think that they can do whatever to the adult population and get away with it because the law protects them. And often the adult defending himself or his property is the one in trouble with the law when incidents occur. Whats wrong with that picture?
I think I'll get off my soapbox now...I would be in jail in the UK.
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That's fine, you can do what you want, it's the result that counts.
But if I have to decide ahead of time, on what my strategy will be, I will opt for the most efficient one.
Aggression may be a nice sledgehammer on the lock that might be a stubborn or stupid mind, but if you can pick or just use the right key, you've probably gained something in not causing damage, and probably also in understanding the workings of the previously obscure mechanism.
Kind of like strength of scar- vs that of muscle- tissue, from the specimen's perspective.
And for so much talk of it we'll have to make it 5000 beers I think :-)
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In your example the kids are just not seeing the consequences. Exposing them to the factual reality instead of their faulty p.o.v. is simple enough. If they reject that, it's their responsibility.
There's a nuance between coercion(sp) for a correct argument when everything else fails, and plain and simple appeal to fear/force.
I don't mean to plagiarize but it's the same as plato's good and ignorance of good as opposed to good and evil. That and the fact that it's at least, and in the first place, a fallacious argument.
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I would NEVER spank my child with anything other than my hand. Belts, sneakers, canes...anything else is wrong IMHO. You cannot judge how hard you are hitting the child with another object.
I have children and have spanked them.
I have left red marks on my kid's backsides after a spanking with my hand, so technically I could go to jail in the UK....which is ridiculous. BUT, the times where I have hit my child a wee bit too hard I am fully aware of it and stop immediately. I know this because I can judge the strength of the hit based upon how much my hand "stings" after hitting them. No such basis for such a decision can be made with a belt or anything else.
I'm not a "child beater". The only times I have spanked my kids have been very very warrented...direct and continual disobedience, talking back, act of malicious and willful damage (such as throwing a breakable object onto the floor on purpose) etc.
I hate doing it. I feel like an absolute bag of poop afterwards, but sometimes it is necessary.
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5 years for a little mark? :eek:
I bet you *might* get the same if you beat up an adult very bad.
What a reasonable time to spend in jail for a little scratch.
Kids needs to have the respect for authority and that does not happen if theres no need to think ahead of the actions.
Besides nowadays kids do know the law pretty well.. they know what they can do for little or no consequences.
Some people just tend to underestimate their intelligence and gets overprotective.
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I got my parenting degree thru equivalence by black belt in taekwondo.
Proper logic?? **** that! I've got brass knuckles for the little pissers! A mistake in some nuance they haven't learned to appreciate yet? 15 taetokooshedans in the jaw, till they figure it out. If they can't see the corelation, wellemme tell ya, **** THEM, they're flying right out the ****in window!
And if you think my methods are exaggerated and inadapted to the simple need for guidance of the little ****s, well I direct you to my precision 40lb brick-braking fingertip technique diploma and precision katana-cutting degree: I can brake/slice thru anything without upsetting a spinning dish on top... don't tell me about "inexperience" or "guess work".
Eye for an eye, today's youth is decadent and ****.
Convincing, right?? :D
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Went to visit my wife at work a few years ago and someone had a book by some Ph.D. I flipped through real quick when my wife was on the phone and saw an interesting point made. And one I happen to whole heartedly agree with that went something alone the lines of this
"There is a difference between dicipline and abuse.
If you send your child to his/her room for the night, Thats discipline. If you lock them in their rooms for 3-4 days, Thats abuse.
Likewise, IF you beat the dickens out of your kid thats abuse, a simple pop or two on the butt is discipline"
I am lucky, I have raised my hand to both my kids combined maybe 1/2 dozen times. But they know I'll do it.
Interesting thing is I've never swatted either of them harder then I have when playing with them in fact probably lighter. The only difference is in the circumstances and tone of my voice.
But you also have to know your kid. And what works with them
Some kids I've seen thats all they really understood other kids I've known no amount of beating in the world would help.
But by the same token their parents rarely gave punishments that stuck either.
There are some that wont touch their kids because it will "emotionally scar them"
I say YES,,, EXACTLY!
the Same type of emotional scar you get when you grab a hot pot without a potholder.
Not all scarring is bad.
This law however is.
Unless there is real abuse going on. I do not believe the government should have ANY right whatsoever to tell you how to raise your child.
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I'm just saying your authority means jack**** if you aren't credible.
Anger is inherent to one's incapacity to articulate his or her pov, for one reason or another.
Difficulty is symptomatic of incorrect method; that's not reinventing the wheel is it...
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I will lay my cards on the table so to speak
I have "beat" my son (he was 14 at the time)
Hell yeah i would do it again in the same circumstances
2yrs til he is 18 so until then i can be charged with abh maybe even gbh who knows with fubar uk laws
And before bleeding heart libs jump on and ask if i was "beaten" as a kid and am doing what was done to me NO
My mother smacked all four of us (2 elder sisters and a younger brother)
My dad belted me ONCE
I took a damn about my sons life but now it doesn't matter
Laws are seemingly more n more for the louts in the UK, I tried and failed to stop my son from turning into one and resorted to beating (violence) as a last resort and even this failed but i truly believe i had to try it
Some people you just cannot change and alas my son chose his path and couldn't veer from said chosen path
Society here is imho crumbling fast and without common-sense smacking/beatings (beatings as several smacks/slaps etc not battons or alike that so goes hand-in-hand with mental image of "beating") it's just gonna worsen
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First off, swatting a kid after roughly age 3 or 4 ain't gonna do anything. Removing priveleges or restriction works better from my experience. Secondly, if/when you do swat them on the behind, if it leaves a welt, then you're using too much force. The mear act itself without excessive force usually gets the message across.
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Originally posted by moot
No kids yet.
:D Would be interesting to see how long your "no spanking" views hold after you actualy have children.
I believe you might tend to bend those views when you come home from a bad day at work looking for a little peace and quiet and shortly after grabbing a cool one and hittin the recliner your wife informs you that the little darling has just keyed both sides of your new Vette and broken out the headlights in form of a rebellion for the ever so popular "Time out" you had just enforced.
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Never heard of time out and wouldn't have thought of it. Might be useful in some cases but so far it's described like a end-all bandaid solution which is in itself flawed, no need to debate it.
Kids are more lucid than that.
I don't think I could get mad at them. I don't know what to tell you except it's just not a viable solution to any problem.
You're responsible for your actions and your emotions are part of those, so why should an irresponsible act be the counter-argument to another irresponsible act? The point is to convince them otherwise, not reinforce their perception that "BEING PISSED GETS **** DONE".
Intolerance for dissatisfaction is another story though.
"Things've gone far enough and I can't take it anymore!"
well wtf. Is that the example that'll convince them to trust you?
Key my sports car and I'll make you, the kid, understand why you should feel guilty. But more importantly why guilt is subordinate to reason.
Crayola the wall and I think I'll probably put a frame around the centerpiece and leave the kid to embarassment when guests inquire :D
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Originally posted by Curval
I have left red marks on my kid's backsides after a spanking with my hand...
...BUT, the times where I have hit my child a wee bit too hard I am fully aware of it and stop immediately.
...I'm not a "child beater".
Gotta remember that excuse if I find myself again from court and being accused of assault, "When I noticed I had hit too hard I did stop immediately, I'm not a violent assaulter"
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Read the first post in this thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=115730&referrerid=3203
) on how a neighborhood kid turned out when his parents chose not to spank.
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Originally posted by Staga
Gotta remember that excuse if I find myself again from court and being accused of assault, "When I noticed I had hit too hard I did stop immediately, I'm not a violent assaulter"
AGAIN Staga?
One of us has a problem...it ain't me.
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I HAVE TWO KIDS
And as a matter of fact I wooped my son twice last night. Even good kids need a little sting every now and then to bring them back to reality! My kids seem to get in a zone every now and then were they close their ears and shut their brains off. They could spend hours in the corner doing time out and as soon as the timer goes off they do something to go right back in there.
The way to spank a kid properly is never do it when you are angry, it should hurt you (your feelings) as much as it hurts their rear. Parents can do real damage to a kid when they do this so being calm about it is important.
Myself....I don't woop them to cause major pain it's more to cause a sting than anything else. I also put the guilt trip on them afterwords saying how "dissapointed" I am at their behavior.
BUT for me the most IMPORTANT thing parents can do for their kids when punishing them......Explain what the kid did wrong afterwords! Kids should know why they are being punished for whatever reason.
as far as a govt. banning this, I do not approve of a govt. telling me how to raise my kid. It doesnt take a villiage, just a strong and loving parent.
Just my thoughts!
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I gotta agree with the parents in here. I just spend the much of the day yestterday with friends and their 2.5 year old and a 4.5 year old kids. The 2.5 year old ran his tantrums (the terrible two's IIRC) and hit a few some with his toys and generally made some trouble. You couldnt tell him anything "rational" but a little smack from his daddy on the behind got him in line and calmed down - he realized he should stop. I got the impression that kids his age are selfish and do whatver they want to explore and test limits so the smack helps give somne direct selfish consequences to stop the behavior.
The 4.5 year old kid would actuaslly listen and would respond to here parents wishes more directly... This one seemed a whole bunch more rational and of course coulkd talk and communice much better with us.
So from what I have noticed this 2 to 4 year old window where a little smack on the behind works well seems to hold.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I gotta agree with the parents in here. I just spend the much of the day yestterday with friends and their 2.5 year old and a 4.5 year old kids. The 2.5 year old ran his tantrums (the terrible two's IIRC) and hit a few some with his toys and generally made some trouble. You couldnt tell him anything "rational" but a little smack from his daddy on the behind got him in line and calmed down - he realized he should stop. I got the impression that kids his age are selfish and do whatver they want to explore and test limits so the smack helps give somne direct selfish consequences to stop the behavior.
The 4.5 year old kid would actuaslly listen and would respond to here parents wishes more directly... This one seemed a whole bunch more rational and of course coulkd talk and communice much better with us.
So from what I have noticed this 2 to 4 year old window where a little smack on the behind works well seems to hold.
That's a very good observation there Grun. That's basically how it is with my kids..... 2.5 and 5. What's REALLY frustraiting though is when the older one reverts back because she see's it working with her younger brother.
Or even worse when you have two parents working against eachother when raising kids
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Well, the day I need a belt to get my kids (now grandkids) attention will be a cold day in hell. That's outrageous to me, and I was on the receiving end as a kid.
That said, I do strongly believe in a swat on the rump, timed perfectly...... Get's attention, no harm done.
When the child is old enough to reason, you don't even need a swat.....you simply reason away privileges for infractions....it becomes self evident and a life lesson - actions have consequences.
You don't need a weapon to discipline a kid....use your hand, the same one with which you administer love. Discipline is love. Kids need and crave it.
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Originally posted by moot
I don't think I could get mad at them. I don't know what to tell you except it's just not a viable solution to any problem.
You're responsible for your actions and your emotions are part of those, so why should an irresponsible act be the counter-argument to another irresponsible act? The point is to convince them otherwise, not reinforce their perception that "BEING PISSED GETS **** DONE".
Intolerance for dissatisfaction is another story though.
"Things've gone far enough and I can't take it anymore!"
well wtf. Is that the example that'll convince them to trust you?
Key my sports car and I'll make you, the kid, understand why you should feel guilty. But more importantly why guilt is subordinate to reason.
Crayola the wall and I think I'll probably put a frame around the centerpiece and leave the kid to embarassment when guests inquire :D
Your Holier than thou attitude will change. You THINK you know what you are talking about, but you really don't. BTW, I have a 3 year old son.
This isn't Leave it To %^&*( Beaver. I had to unplug the lamp cord and hand it to my father. But, that happened twice, because my little mind realized I did something wrong and did not like the after effects.
My wife and have spanked our son. Why have humans become pussified?
Karaya
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pussified? holier than thou? wtf are you on about?
You don't know what you're talking about, you don't know what I was put thru, what I saw others of my age or my parents' being put thru, you don't know what I put my parents thru, just wtf do you know besides your quick interpretation of my posted text?
but ok, I'll hit my kids. They'll understand. There is never any better alternative that my brain nor any other homo sapiens brain might synthesize.
I want the best for my kids and will not fall for glorifications nor holierthanthouisms like appealing to force or fear. I want to be an example for them and thus will exempt myself as the exception to all the rules I teach them.
I'll start by choking the first one in response to his newborn cries, it'll make a perfect example for the ones after him.
They won't even have left my testicles yet at the time, so it'll make no sense, but I'll probably be pissed off at the time so it doesn't matter.
case closed.
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Moot,
You are taking things to the extreme and not producing a credible arguement. Try staying in the real world here please.
There is a difference between beating and spanking.
As far as your situation with the Teachers not usiung rulers and so on. I think you need to spend some time in a classroom. Try a Junior High or High School and look at the behavior of the students. Perhaps if Teachers still had the swat option the classroom wouldn't be as bad as it is now.
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Funny that a guy that apprently screams out aginst "irrational" responses now compares a quick spank to choking infants.
Moot you have no, none, zero, nada clue what you are talking about...
Let it go before you embarass yourself more..
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He's making sense to me, Bravo moot.
p.s. I have no children.
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Originally posted by Curval
AGAIN Staga?
One of us has a problem...it ain't me.
I'm not the one using violence when raising kids. Thanks for playing :)
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The age thing is the key. You can tell someone who doesn't have kids because they believe you can reason with a two year old - well I've news for you Moot - YOU CAN'T THE'RE TWO !! they just don't have the capacity that you think they have.
And yes I smacked my daughter when she was young when she needed an instant message that what she was doing was wrong. Give her a smack for running out into the road - hell yes - it's an effective message.
A smack on the rear at 2 - 4 years and you won't need it after. I have not laid a hand on my daughter since her early years because I haven't needed to and now she is old enough to talk to - as they get older an emotional beating is more effective. The point is it's in the early years that you teach a child you mean what you say. When that message is set you can talk to them.
This is just another example of Fuhrer Blair's fatherly state......
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Originally posted by Swoop
That's the law in Britain now. Leave a red mark on your kid when giving the little git a clout after the rotton little bastard sets fire to the cat and you could go to prison for 5 years. Daaaaymn. My Grandad would take his belt off and use it.
I have no children (that I know of anyway) so my opinion doesn't count. What do parents think?
I believe that all children need discipline. For my two boys it just so happens that they get the leather belt, a hand across their bottom or on their leg if its the only place I can get to at the moment.
If you don't discipline your children you run the route of allowing them to overtake you and set the rules when you as the parent should be the one setting and maintaining the rules of the house.
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Blair out in 2005.
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Originally posted by moot
Why don't teachers at school still use metal rulers on fingertips or public spankings?
To pull one segment of your quote here moot I will say this. Teachers aren't allowed to use "corporal punishment" because you have a very vocal minority that pushed their opinions via the court system and law suits onto the majority of the nations education system. I can honestly say that after getting 4 or 5 "licks" from my high school football coach for failing a test that I never failed another test in high school.
To say that a parent "lost control" is one thing but to experience life as a parent is another thing entirely. The day you think you can handle my two boys solely on word discipline is the day I challenge you to step over here and take charge of them for a week while I go on vacation. I don't think you could do it and maintain the level of respect that my children have for adults in positions of authority.
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Originally posted by Staga
I'm not the one using violence when raising kids. Thanks for playing :)
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
Here is what you said:
"Gotta remember that excuse if I find myself again from court and being accused of assault, "When I noticed I had hit too hard I did stop immediately, I'm not a violent assaulter"
The "again" in that sentance implies you have already been in court accused of assault.
I haven't been, nor will I ever.
When I say I "spank" my kids you are probably thinking I do this regularly. I don't...at all. I use the "twack" method that Ripsnort suggested years ago for the most part. I take my middle finger and apply pressure against my thumb...then I "thwack" the kids forehead lightly, but hard enough to get their attention.
If that fails and the child is being totally unreasonable and uncontrollable I will swat them once, maybe twice on the backside.
As far as the "excuse" thing goes, I was just simply saying that "if" anyone spanks their child they should NEVER use anything other than their hand. You have no way of knowing how hard that object is hitting your child. With your hand you do.
The only time I have ever spanked my son "too hard" was once, when I thought he had a diaper on. Believe me...if you spank a three year old who has a diaper on if you don't add a bit extra force he will just laugh at you. When I hit him I immediately realised he didn't have the diaper on and was horrified at the strength of the hit. But, he followed me around like a puppy dog for the rest of the night trying ANYTHING to please his daddy. I probably haven't been hitting hard enough previously. lol
Anyway...all of this is quite amusing as so many of the anti-spanking dudes have no children and have absolutely NO CLUE as to what raising kids is like.
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whos to argue with several thousand years of child rearing with minor violence. if it worked 2000+ years ago, it will probably work now...
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Quick story about the discipline in my home.
On September 26th my oldest son turned 8 and we allowed him to buy a Gameboy SP with his birthday money and money he had saved all year long. On the next day September 27th; Parrish took his new gameboy to school without our knowledge and was caught playing it in school. When I got home that afternoon to take him to football practice I got the story. He knew the rules and paid the price which was no practice that day and no game the next day along with 6 weeks of no gameboy and 3 weeks of no television (he only gets 1 hour a day of tv time split between the morning and evening). He was able to go to the game the next day but couldn't dress out and was questioned about why he couldn't play. When asked his response was I messed up in school and now I have to pay the price for messing up. At this age having him not be a part of the team and seeing them struggle without him meant allot to him. With him they would have won easily but without him we barely got by in the game. He learned his lesson and has publicy and privately said it many times since then.
Does he get spankings now....no because he was spanked enough early on to realize that when mom and dad talk I better listen and if I don't then the punishment is swift and hard but warranted.
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Why screw his team because he disobeyed? He should have practiced and played the game.
Donating the game to charity would have conveyed a strong message.
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Originally posted by TalonX
Why screw his team because he disobeyed? He should have practiced and played the game.
Donating the game to charity would have conveyed a strong message.
Reschke taught his son a valuable lesson and one he (son) will never forget.
If he let the kid play he would have failed to teach this lesson.
It is as simple as that.
....and by the way, if you guys think that this teaching of lessons to your kids is an easy thing to do...THINK AGAIN!!
If a parent loves their child it breaks their hearts to have to disappoint them or make them feel bad in any way whatsoever. In many cases it hurts the parents more. No joke. It is a plain and simple FACT.
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Curval, you may want to ask a doctor about your opinion on using your hands. According to my doctor, hands are large and heavy(compared to a child's body) and transfer alot of energy to a child's body. This has been known to dislodge kidneys. It is far better to administer a sting with a wooden spoon or something similar, and not hard to test on yourself to make sure you're not hitting too hard. JMO
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Honestly, I simply "swat" my kid's backsides. I do not spank them hard or regularly.
But, here's a little factoid for ya:
I attended boarding school in jolly old England back in the days when "Six of the best" (six whacks with a bamboo cane) was standard punnishment for everything from talking when you weren't supposed to, to running away from school.
We had two disciplinarians...the Headmaster and a science teacher...Mr. Johnson.
Mr. Johnson was diagnosed with early stages of Parkinson's disease while I was at that school and as a result was not allowed to use a cane on the kids.
The reason:
The school was afraid that due to his shaking he might miss and.......hit the children in the kidney area causing serious potential damage.
Wooden spoons are about the same diameter of a bamboo cane.
This condradicts your doctor's theory.
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No, I disagree...... You don't keep a kid from a team sport because they broke a rule? Who said the punishment COULD ONLY BE APPLIED TO THE TEAM SPORT?
As I offered, there were plenty of other ways to "teach the lesson" rather than hurting the other children on the team.
Now, if the infraction were specifically related to the team sport, I'd agree with the punishment.
heheh
Gotta love debate.
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The team still won, so the point is moot, but I do understand what you are saying.
Fact is, Reschke not only made his son admit his transgression to himself and his family, he also had to admit it to the TEAM. Maybe the team learned a lesson too.
If he is THAT good and is such an important part of the team it is possible that his teamates will do anything to ensure nothing like that happens again too. I doubt they will have to though.
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Curval what do you think; if I'd "whack" or "Swat" some fellow out in the city and he'd sue me would court order me to pay fees and fines?
Of course it would.
Now what if you'd do the same? Of course.
Why should childrens have worse protection by law than some adult?
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Originally posted by Staga
Curval what do you think; if I'd "whack" or "Swat" some fellow out in the city and he'd sue me would court order me to pay fees and fines?
Of course it would.
Now what if you'd do the same? Of course.
Why should childrens have worse protection by law than some adult?
Because most psychologists will tell you a child needs positive reinforcement combined with negative punishment. You can't have one without the other. Well, you can, but then you're gonna have one nasty azzed kid to deal with.
Naturally more positive reinforcement will mean you use less negative punishment since you're always rewarding them for good behavior. Kids learn fast.
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Originally posted by Staga
Curval what do you think; if I'd "whack" or "Swat" some fellow out in the city and he'd sue me would court order me to pay fees and fines?
Of course it would.
Now what if you'd do the same? Of course.
Why should childrens have worse protection by law than some adult?
Not sure I get this question....but if you are trying to compare the requirements of discipline for a parent over his children, to two adults interacting in public, I think you are way off.
If I saw an adult misbehave, I'd have no right to reprimand him. I have an OBLIGATION to reprimand (punish even) my children for such transgression.
Analogy failed.
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Children NEED discipline Staga. It is a parents responsibility to provide that.
If they DON'T then that is why people are getting whacked or smacked for no reasons out in the streets. It is why there is rampant problems in our eductaion systems with out of control children disrupting those who are trying to learn.
Look at it this way:
Why do you think that under contract law that a child cannot legally enter into a contract? It is because under law he/she is not of sufficient age of responsibility to understand the implications of a contract.
An adult can enter into a legally binding contract.
That is a legal difference applicable to children vs adults. Are you arguing then that a child who signs a contract that they do not understand should be legally bound by it?
You can't have it both ways.
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Originally posted by TalonX
No, I disagree...... You don't keep a kid from a team sport because they broke a rule? Who said the punishment COULD ONLY BE APPLIED TO THE TEAM SPORT?
As I offered, there were plenty of other ways to "teach the lesson" rather than hurting the other children on the team.
Now, if the infraction were specifically related to the team sport, I'd agree with the punishment.
heheh
Gotta love debate.
So if when my son is older and he gets caught smokin pot or something similar when he knows its against not only my rule but the team rules he should be allowed to continue playing? Kinda screwy logic there Talon but I will run with it on this line of reasoning.
Think about this for a minute. A former college coach of mine (Sammy Queen head coach for Pelham High School here in Alabama) disciplined about 20 kids on his team for breaking team rules. BTW this is in Pelham, Alabama this past week. The kids were at a party and pictures were taken of them drinking and those kids were suspended from playing even though the team was out of playoff contention. http://www.al.com/hsfootball/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/sports/109904161468420.xml]Here is the link to the story.
I know this coach and know that even if they would have been going to the playoffs he would have suspended those same players but probably would have done it for a longer time frame.
The simple fact is that if you don't teach a kid the hard lessons early in life you get freaks for children who think that jsut because they didn't get punished as a child they should be able to do anything as an adult and get away with it.
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One of the fallacies of modern parenting is treating young ones (below 5) as little adults. Unfortunately for these kids their brain is still developing and they have difficulty understanding or grasping an adult viewpoint; which only exacerbates the situation.
Where a discussion will fail, a swift smack will engender instant understanding.
I agree with earlier posts though.. there is no excuse or need for damage - it is the quick and instant experience of pain that clues the child in.
The reason humans experience pain is to let us know when something is wrong - why should this not apply to children?
They're too soft by half thesedays.
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Yeah... Why use brains when you can just *****-slap and say "Sorry but I had to do it" :)
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Rip and I are on side on this one.
I also think that its easy to exagurate how much the law is involved in our family lives. The extremes are not any where near the norm.
Its rewarding to raise kids and if you put them first it seems to work out well
Allthough ***** will happen.
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Staga, lets just make sure we are on the same page here.
Do you think these children look abused to you at all?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/257_1099534606_kids.jpg)
I wish I was my kids for heavens sake.
lol
:)
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Nice looking bunch there Curval!
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My daughter is almost 13, my son is 9, I haven't had to lay a hand on either one of them in I can't even remember how long. When they were younger if they needed a swat to the ass, you can damn well be sure they got it. After age 3-4 or so it was no longer necessary, they understand the boundaries and what happens when they cross them. Raise a child right when they're younger and it's much easier when they get older.
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I never said it was easy to accomplish. I know it's a fine line and I'll walk it.
I said (wrote) what I said, and nothing more. I didn't say it's uncommon for kids (people as a matter of fact) to be accustomed to electric shocks or a good slap etc as verification that something is "bad". I didn't say it was useless or just intolerable to use corporal punishment, I did say it was flawed and why.
Not going to repeat all that.
I've known my lot of good and bad teachers and good and bad classes, either or both with good or bad intentions, in most possible combinations if not all, and in my experience for the current to pass between teachers and students the teacher just needs to hit it spot on. "It" is different in every case and it's a matter of strategy. **** up and you have to deal with consequences.
Of all the friends I've had in the 10 moves or so from as far as I can remember to today, the ones with calm and reasonable parents didn't appear to be any more disfunctional than the rest but usually the contrary.
You reap what you sow.
btw GH you should have no trouble filtering the purposedly exagerated and distorted BS from the actual rhetoric... they actually come in separate posts.
Reschke:
If that's the best medium of understanding, then that's what I'll do. Not getting to that point is what I'm debating, not whether a ballerina teacher could maintain control over prison inmates.