Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: mettech on November 04, 2004, 04:25:52 PM
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I am tired for getting just 19 FPS.... I have a Dell 2.4, 1g mem, 9600XT, 18"LCD)... I run now at the max performance settings..
What system would give me "Max" video performance/detail return (i.e. intel/AMD speed, memory, video card)?
I don't want to over spend on something that is a overkill, but I do want to max detail and performance on AHII..
Any pointers SkuzzY? Anyone else know?
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Check Sharkeyextreme.com
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First general rule of thumb:
AH is CPU intensive, not GPU intensive. Spend more money on your CPU/Mobo and less on the graphics card than you would if you were playng other games.
Second, without a budget listed, you'll get answers from this group that are all across the board.
So a few more specifics are needed:
What is your budget? Do you want an enitirely new system so you can use your Dell for other things or can you cannibalize parts from it? Do you need a new case? What is your current power supply?
But to give you a quick answer, you can build a a great system for AHII with:
Athlon 64 3200
A new mobo that supports the Athlon 64. Look for an NForce III chipset.
512 or 1 Gig Corsair or Crucial Value Ram (depends on budget)
Reuse your 9600XT.
Probably should get a new case and PS (I LOVE my Antec SX835II)
SB Audugy (the plain Audigy, not the Audugy IIs, it will only run about $50).
Why reuse the 9600 XT? Because AH is so CPU intensive that the graphics card has much less impact on FPS in the games. Particularly if you don't care about Anti Aliasing and running at very high resolutions. If you run 1024x768 res and no AA, you'll get very good FPS with the 9600 XT and the Athlon 64 3200.
Or just buy one of these: http://www.falcon-nw.com/talon.asp (http://www.falcon-nw.com/talon.asp)
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recommend the same system
but
3200+ (939 pin)
Asus A8V (939 socket)
1gig ram... Crucial ballistic P3200 or something.
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recommend new audigy II ... TONS less CPU usage, ask skuzzy, it's what he uses.
also a CRT moniter that supports 1280x1024 or higher at NO less than 85hz
that will probably set you back $450+ minium
also add an nvidia 6800 ultra. $550
hey you are talking max lol
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am using a 2 year old
3.06G Intel processor
Gigabyte GA-8IHXP motherboard
onboard sound
ATI 9700 Pro video card
22" monitor with 120hz refresh rate at 1024x768
consistently get 60-120 FPS depending on activity in the area on screen
no problems with anything in the game
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MOSQ, that is not quite right. Allow me to explain.
AHII is very GPU intensive, however, you have to have a CPU fast enough to keep the GPU busy. In this sense, AHII is CPU dependent and no matter what the video card is, if your CPU cannot supply the data, fast enough, to keep the GPU busy, the GPU will have less impact on performance.
It is a balancing act.
If you want to use a high end GPU, you will need a very fast CPU to keep it busy. A 3GHz CPU could overwhelm the 9600XT, while a 9800Pro would probably be a good match in balancing the overall system performance.
Anything faster than a 9800Pro might be a bit overkill, in a 3Ghz CPU system, but there are other advantages to a faster GPU. You can enable anti-aliasing, for example, and not take a performance hit, especially when running shaders.
The situation you want to avoid occurs when the CPU is able to generate the data faster than the GPU can process it.
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Skuzzy...
Are you saying that the Intel 3 GHz with a 9800 pro is the max hardware for AHII?.... or should this be the standard hardware system for AHII?
`Please inform me on what is the best hardware (GPU/CUP/Mem)match up... i.e. ..GPU (video card) to a CPU (intel/AMD) that wil allow me to max out the settings in AHII....
I would like to run all of the settings to the max detail level.. but not spend more than what I need...
What say you?
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At maximum details, maximum texture sizes, you need the fastest of everything if you want it butter smooth. And I am not quite sure if that is even possible with the given hardware available.
I am not making any recommendations, per se. I was addressing the incorrect perception that AHII is more CPU dependent than GPU dependent.
There is no easy answer to what you are asking mettech. There are just too many variables involved, which impact 3D/DirectX graphics performance, to give a nice neat answer.
Every application you install can have an impact on the available cycles for any other application. It makes it virtually impossible for anyone to accurately assess what hardware is needed.
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Hummmmmm... can anyone loan me $4.5K?.. lol
I must say Skuzzy... that was the easy way out..lol
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Originally posted by mettech
Skuzzy...
Are you saying that the Intel 3 GHz with a 9800 pro is the max hardware for AHII?.... or should this be the standard hardware system for AHII?
`Please inform me on what is the best hardware (GPU/CUP/Mem)match up... i.e. ..GPU (video card) to a CPU (intel/AMD) that wil allow me to max out the settings in AHII....
I would like to run all of the settings to the max detail level.. but not spend more than what I need...
What say you?
Dont get a Intel 3ghz. you will regrett it. Get a A64 3200 or 3500 on a socket 939 system, MUCH faster and cheaper than a Intel system
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You asked for the fastest, fastest would be using a amd athlon64 fx55 with 2 modules of ddr400 cl2 ram.
Socket is 939 motherboard doestn change much, soundcard audigy2. Couple that with and geforce6800ultra or radeonx800, with fastest 256mb of ram you can have.
Then use watercooling to overclock grafik card and cpu.
That is the fastest... but its not affordable. When you get athlon64 3200 you probably have best buy for the money, and a 754 socket one will do as well as a 939. I have seen tests where they run equal speed..
ciao schutt
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That is a bit of an exaggeration there Overlag. Nothing wrong with a Northwood P4. It performs just fine. I have one, and with the software I use, it performs better than most AMD systems will.
Besides, the CPU is only part of the equation.
If you are going AMD 64, stay away from the VIA chipset. It has a bug in it if you want to use any bus master PCI devices that will cause many problems (random lockups, crashes amd general flakiness).
mettech, I was not looking for an easy way out, but I have seen people take, what is supposed to be, the fastest hardware around and manage to cut the performance in half with various software programs loaded.
I am probably a better guage of how a system should run, rather than how a system may actually run.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
If you are going AMD 64, stay away from the VIA chipset. It has a bug in it if you want to use any bus master PCI devices that will cause many problems (random lockups, crashes amd general flakiness).
sorry but thats rubbish, the VIA chipset is the best out there right now, its the Nvidia that has memory incompatabilities, and PCI lock issues, Sata issues. VIA boards are generaly plug and play, Nvidia boards take time to setup, tweak and get working.
the last VIA chipset to have issues you describe was the KT266 (i think) and thats 4 years ago. Its kinda like people saying AMD are unstable, slow and power hungery....yeah sure they was in 1999, but its 2004 now and all is good
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Well.... I'm looking at the following"
xp home
x800 pro
AMD 3200
1 gig mem
cd/rw 52 speed
audigy2 sound card
80 gig HD
450 W power
Standard case
$1470.00 (today's cost)
Was told that the AMD 3200 would max out my 9600XT.. Could use 9800 Pro... but it would be better to use the new x800 card...
Also, AMD will have a price drop on Monday on the 3200 and 3500 CPU...
Is this price OK?.. any other suggestions?..
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add a dvd-rom, for upcomming DVD games. there allready some on the market.
a basic should only be $50, a writer $190
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Overlag, sorry but that is not rubbish about the VIA bug. Check a few hardware forums. Look for "PCI Lock". You'll find it is a bug in the chipset. It just surfaced a couple of weeks ago.
However, it will not effect many people.
FYI: I do not make a habit of tossing out rumors Overlag.
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Now I will add a DVD driver
And... Looking hard at the AMD 3500...... Price drop?.......
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Actually, you can get a good DVD burner (dual-layer even) for $80 or so now.
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Hi Skuzzy,
My reply was based on my real life experience lately running AHII. I think a lot of folks get too wrapped up in maxing out Future Mark 05 scores, but not really paying attention to how AHII looks and feels given different pieces of hardware. Here's what I mean:
My system purchased all parts on Labor Day sale at Frys:
MSI K8N NEO + Athlon 64 3200 combo package = $269
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro = $199.
2 x 512 PC 3200 Corsair Value Ram = $90 each = $180
SB Audigy $39.
Antec case SX835II w/350 watt PS = $69 (on rebate)
Extra Fans for case 3@ $10 = $30
Maxtor HD = $60
Mitsumi CD-R = $35
Sony Floppy = $14
Cost me about $895.
This system plays AHII butter smooth with all detail sliders maxed, 512 textures. I've tried 1024 textures, sometimes they work ok, sometimes a slight hesitation as they load up. However I don't use AA or AF, and run 1024 x 768 res.
My future mark '03 score is around 5900 to 6000, depending on if I slightly overclock the cpu or not.
My ATI Radeon 9800 lately developed a case of artifacting. So while it's on RMA, I've put a one year old Nvidia 5200 Ultra 128 in to replace it.
With the 5200 Ultra (a $150 card last year, $99 to $120 today) my Future Mark 03 drops to 2700. Less than half that of the Radeon. The 5200 is very choppy in several of the tests.
However in AHII, the game still plays great! My FPS is only slightly affected. Only on Ozkansas right above a heavily damaged field can I notice a slight slow down in FPS.
I'm very satisified with the performance in AHII of the 5200 Ultra in my AMD 64 3200.
But the system it came from, a Celeron 1.4, was not satisfactory for AHII.
Now if I was running high resoloutions and 8X AA, I'm sure there would be a big difference. But at moderate res and no AA, there is really none.
I just think there is too much $ wasted by players who think a $550 vid card is going to make things 4x better than a $150 card.
That's why I suggest mettech allocate his budget $ more for the CPU/Mobo than the vid card.
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Nice post MOSQ. I agree many people put too much emphasis in the Futuremark scores. As the video card drivers will alter the behavior of the hardware when they detect the benchmark running, I think it rather bogus these days.
There is nothing wrong with having a fast CPU. Nothing at all wrong with that approach. But it is a balancing act. If the CPU is much too fast for the video card, then you have potential stalling, where the CPU is being held up waiting for the video card.
If the video card is too fast for the CPU, then the video card is waiting. This particular situation is preferred to the one where the CPU is over-running the video card though.
Unfortunately, every configuration is different. The various software items a system has loaded impacts the overall performance of the system. This makes it very difficult to make suggestions as to which hardware configurations are appropriate. Most people take the 'big hammer' approach.
MOSQ, you are experiencing what you should, but you are not grasping the reasons why. The video card switch out is a shining example. The 5200 is not a bad card, but turn on the animation of water and watch it tank versus the 9800.
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Get a good case and power supply. MOSQ put you on the right track with the Antec case/power supply combo.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Overlag, sorry but that is not rubbish about the VIA bug. Check a few hardware forums. Look for "PCI Lock". You'll find it is a bug in the chipset. It just surfaced a couple of weeks ago.
However, it will not effect many people.
FYI: I do not make a habit of tossing out rumors Overlag.
out of the 2 chipsets for socket 939 VIA is the most stable. Proven fact around the web.
i will look around for this thing, but Nvidia DO have lots of problems also, infact no 939 chipset is 100% fine.
btw: "PCI Lock(s)"... thats a overclocking issue. Nvidia have that too... Got any links to the issues you mean?
Asus A8V has working PCI Locks, AGP locks, its Sata devices are on a locked bus, its memory support is top notch, it reads the thermal probe properly and its HT bus is 100% stable at 1000mhz.
However most Nforce3 250gb chipset boards have a issue where PCI doesnt get locked properly...only 2 out of the 4 Sata ports get locked, currupting HDD's and you have to be careful about the ram you get for Nforce3 as its picky. And even some boards have issues with the 1000mhz HT bus.
Nforce 4 soon tho...maybe that will be perfect.
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All chipsets have warts. The only gating factor is, whether you can live with the warts or not.
Yes, I am aware of NForce issues. And yes, I said the issue with VIA will not effect most people.
Chipset issues have always been my priority. I do not care for Intel, but some of thier chipsets are simply the most bug free. Some have had warts, just like others, but some simply hit the mark better than others.
And the chipset is what defines stability in a computer system.
As far as others opinions on the WEB goes. I have gotten to where I do not trust most of them. Look at how many people swear by the NForce chipset and then when confronted with the issues, they dismiss them as, "oh yeah, well there is that". Yet, if Intel had done the same thing, they would be hanging them from a tree.
Hardware bigots abound. They cannot have a rational discussion about various pluses and minuses of hardware. It is a mentality I cannot fathom nor comprehend.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Hardware bigots abound. They cannot have a rational discussion about various pluses and minuses of hardware. It is a mentality I cannot fathom nor comprehend.
:confused: :confused:
i looked around the web before my buy, and noticed more issues with Nvidia so choose VIA, ive had 1x K8T800 and 1xK8T800pro (K8V, now A8V) and had no issues at all.
I see more complaints about Nforce boards than i do VIA (unless your talking Socket A).
I still havnt seen any link/site showing about PCI issues on the K8T800pro?
PS the only perfect chipsets ive seen have been from Intel... the 875 and 865 chipsets ring a bell.
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Overlag, that comment you quoted was not aimed at you. It was a general comment and I apologize if you thought it was aimed at you.
I don't have time to dig up the links right now. I'll get around to it.
The 875/865 are not perfect either. Hmmm,..I really do not know a chipset that is perfect. All of them had some odd bug here or there.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Overlag, that comment you quoted was not aimed at you. It was a general comment and I apologize if you thought it was aimed at you.
I don't have time to dig up the links right now. I'll get around to it.
ok i thought it was at first
oh and i know what you mean by it anyway...that does piss me off.
See ive been an AMD fan since my first one, the TB800. and i normaly recommended them, but i didnt go as far as recommending them when they got behind.. For instance the AMDs was great, untill Intel Hit 800fsb/HT and dual DDR then it got fairer and depended on what you was doing, from P4 3ghz on AMD screwed with the rating so much to make themselfs look better than they really was. yet there was still people around saying they was the best....yes im a fan, but im not going to lie. Thankfully the lead is back with AMD though.
Saying that i cant wait for desktop P-M to come out...they look great.
Originally posted by Skuzzy
The 875/865 are not perfect either. Hmmm,..I really do not know a chipset that is perfect. All of them had some odd bug here or there.
BX chipset? :D
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Interesting discussion....
Skuzzy, when will AH2 make good use of Intel Hyper Threaded CPUs?
As of now, AH uses one thread close to 100, other about 25% in average, total CPU load 60-75% in average.
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Bighorn, games cannot do much in the way of multi-threading. It's just not possible as virtually everything in a game is driven by the last event that happens. So you are always waiting on that event.
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The AMD-Intel debate (above) really centered on motherboard chipsets, which is why I *STILL* go with Intel boards.
I think both CPUs are great, but I think the stability and longevity you get with an Intel chipset-equipped motherboard is a huge advantage in real-life outside of benchmarks.
And since both CPUs are great, but the Intel CPU lets you get a mainboard with an Intel chipset, I got an Intel CPU. 3.0g Northwood core living in a Small Form Factor (SFF) case that is a THIRD the size and weight of a full tower, and much easier to transport (to the Con, LAN parties, clients, etc). And did I mention that a SFF system isn't more expensive than a "full sized" system, and can play games just as well as anything?
Anyone remember the projector at the con this year? Gameplay was buttery smooth and full of details, and my cute little SFF was driving it, and it was far less than $1000.
More info? check out http://www.sfftech.com. Once you go SFF, you will NEVER want a large system again.
(oh, in case you're wondering, I got a Soltek 3401a)
-Llama
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Interesting discussion....
Skuzzy, when will AH2 make good use of Intel Hyper Threaded CPUs?
As of now, AH uses one thread close to 100, other about 25% in average, total CPU load 60-75% in average.
not many games use SMP, infact you can count them on one hand
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You know Llama, I think Intel is missing a great oppertunity. While they are stumbling around trying to figure out how to build the next processor, they should build a support chipset for the AMD CPU.
I would buy that in a heartbeat. I know they will not do it, but it would be a killer combination.
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mettech,
Part of the answer you're looking for is that no matter what hardware you buy TODAY, you probably can't get sustained 30 fps in AH2 under all situations with all sliders set to max detail/range, 1024 textures, 1600x1200, 8xFSAA, and 16xAnsio Filtering. Unlike an older bit of software like quake3, there is no combination of hardware on the market that will let you turn up every graphics option to the max at the highest resolution with the highest level of image quality, and still get smooth framerates.
Anyone who claims they can do so will get $50 from me if they can prove it at a con, otherwise they're just embellishing the truth, talking smack, flat-out lying, whatever you want to call it.
I personally don't consider anything below 40 fps to be "smooth" anyhow since I can see stutters at any fps below 60, but everyone has their own personal level they consider to be smooth and mine is heavily biased by reflexes I gained flying a real fighter. Most people aren't quite as picky about framerate and stutters as I am :)
FWIW, I run 1280x1024 with the sliders turned down to get me 40-70 fps most of the time, but FSAA turned up because I am using a really fast graphics card matched to a relatively slow cpu (nvidia 6800GT and athlon XP 2000+). Turning down the graphics detail and range sliders dramatically increases my framerate so I can run a high resolution and then my graphics card can also run FSAA with only a tiny drop in framerate. I also run 512 textures because even though I get no framerate decrease at all running 1024 textures, my cpu/FSB/memory/mobo/AGP/overall system is slow enough that I get an annoying pause when the textures transition to higher detail levels during fights.
I guess the lesson is that there is no achievable "max" for AH2 with current hardware, so you have to buy whatever hardware you can afford and then decide what graphics details are important for you and adjust the settings appropriately. A guy running an ATI 9600 may be perfectly happy running settings that get him "smooth" graphics without as much detail, while a guy with the most modern system in the world might be dissatisfied no matter how he sets up the game, because their priorites are different. If you want image quality and FSAA above all else, you will need to include a current generation video card into your system budget. If you really like the trees and don't mind running a lower resolution with smaller textures and no FSAA, spend your money on the fastest cpu you can buy instead of spending more on the graphics card. Or just buy the best you can afford and upgrade whenever you become dissatisfied. That's sort of what I do, and it's why I am using an old cpu and new vid card, because that's where my priorites led me.
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This is a great discussion. Thanks everyone (and Skuzzy particularly for taking the time to post his knowledge). I'm lurking and following because I'm also considering a processor upgrade to go with my ATI9800 Pro, which means new mobo, ram, hard disk and (yuck...) Windows XP.
I really, really, really do not want to go to XP, but I suppose the ram capacity will be worth it. I'll only use the machine for AH. I'll use existing box or my mac for other applications, web access and email.
I want to build an AH Only PC and I've been waiting for PCI Express and supposed new processors, but it looks like they may take awhile to get here.
There are others following this so please continue with the advice!
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Just setup a dual boot. I have XP and AHII (along with a few other programs I use every day) on one HD, and Win98 with my other stuff on another HD. Last thing I ever wanted to do was go from 98 to XP, but I have to admit it has its advantages. Still not ready to give up my 98 altogether. Someday I'll get everything to run on Linux, and then its bye bye Windows lol.
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Rolex, since you asked for a continuation!
My MSI K8N Neo mobo uses the new Nforce 3 chipset. As Overlag and Skuzzy mentioned, all chipsets have a few warts. No doubt the Nforce 4's will too.
If you're contemplating the MSI K8N Neo, here's my list of watchouts:
1) It's picky about recognizing the gameports on certain sound cards. This is a non-issue if you use USB joystick/throttle/rudders. But I'm still using my old CH analog stuff, so the gameport is very important. I could not get the mobo to recognize the GP on my first sound card, a Turtle Beach. On checking the MSI forum, I found a few others having problems with the Audigy II gameport. I tried an old SB Live, it worked fine. A subsequent purchase of an Audigy plain has worked fine. Sounds great and the gameport works great.
2) It's picky about RAM. Several types of RAM won't work at all, including some of the expensive stuff. I don't care about overclocking to the max, so I bought Corsair Value Ram, it works fine. There's alist of what does and does not work at the MSI user's forum website, along with a great "Basic Building Tips" sticky thread. http://forum.msi.com.tw/board.php?boardid=28 (http://forum.msi.com.tw/board.php?boardid=28)
3) Although the MSI mobo has three ram slots, it will really only work with two of them filled if using DDR400!! And it matters which slots have which types of RAM in them. So plan your ram purchase accordingly.
Other than those three, it works great. MSI has an auto web bios and driver update software included that works for keeping the chipset bios and drivers fully up to date with no problem.
If you're looking at a different mobo such as ASUS, be sure to check their user forums BEFORE you buy the MOBO, RAM, and other stuff. It will save you a lot of frustration.
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Thanks for the secret decoder ring info on the MSI K8N.
Rolex's Rule: You will always learn about an obscure mobo wart on an obscure BBS after you've researched for 100 hours and installed the mother.
I have all USB CH Products gear. Sound cards give me fits with every build. I have a closet full of them. To be honest, one reason I have stayed with 98SE is because I have a 6 year-old, $10 Yamaha sound card that works better than anything on the market today. If I were a conspiracy theory type of guy, I'd swear something fishy is going on in the sound card business...
I've used AMD with Gigabyte and Asus lately, but I'm leaning toward Intel this time.
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Lots of good discussion here, even if some of it did get a little testy :) but I really agree with Skuzzy about a point he has made continuously. Balancing Act If your building a system its extremely important to match not only the ram modules, but everything else as well.
I like Intel so my CPU and my MOBO Chipset are Intel. Now, its not as fast as an Athlon64 but it runs cooler by reports I've read. Thing is, I researched the Intel site and matched the chipset with the RAM cause Intel provides compatibility tests on their site. I researched the MoBo and got the current top rated board with the 865 chipset as rated by http://www.motherboards.org
A balanced system with < 3 yr old technology should work fine in AHII. But I'm not gonna try and win eagl's bet :)
But with a 3DMark05 of 4696 I'm comfortable turning on the eye candy.
;)
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The VIA PCI lock will only affect people who overclock, for us normal users you'll never know about. All it does is lock the PCI/AGP bus to default speed while you overclock the CPU.
Dual CPU's - Wouldn't it pe possible using Win 2k Server to set processor affinity and make use of dual cpus?
Max system now with price no object -
AMD FX-55
ASUS AV8
2 x 512mb Corsair TwinX LL
nVidia 6800GT, or ATI x800
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Originally posted by Kev367th
The VIA PCI lock will only affect people who overclock, for us normal users you'll never know about. All it does is lock the PCI/AGP bus to default speed while you overclock the CPU.
Dual CPU's - Wouldn't it pe possible using Win 2k Server to set processor affinity and make use of dual cpus?
Max system now with price no object -
AMD FX-55
ASUS A8V
2 x 512mb Corsair TwinX LL
nVidia 6800GT, or ATI x800
if skuzzy means the PCI lock as in holding the PCI clock at 33 then even Nvidia have this issue too. And most (if not all) new VIA boards dont have PCI lock issues now.
oh and the dual cpu thing wont ever work because AHII only uses one thread....only good thing with dual is the fact that one logical cpu can handle the desktop/windows, and the other handles the game, which will make alt tabing much faster????
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Originally posted by SilverFox
I like Intel so my CPU and my MOBO Chipset are Intel. Now, its not as fast as an Athlon64 but it runs cooler by reports I've read.
;)
Intel DO NOT run cooler they put out well over 100watts compaired to 80 for the latest A64s. A64s also use alot less power overall, making the motheroboard/psu cooler.
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Questions:
Would the AMD 3500 hold any advantage over the 3200 in AHII, with both systems using the ATI X800 Pro, or the X800 XT?
Does the X800 card make the 3200 or the 3500 CPU the bottle neck? Or will my ATI 9600 XT be better.
Can I even get the 3200 with the X800 XT since it uses PCIe?
What power supply wattage should I look for?
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Originally posted by mettech
Questions:
Would the AMD 3500 hold any advantage over the 3200 in AHII, with both systems using the ATI X800 Pro, or the X800 XT?
Does the X800 card make the 3200 or the 3500 CPU the bottle neck? Or will my ATI 9600 XT be better.
Can I even get the 3200 with the X800 XT since it uses PCIe?
What power supply wattage should I look for?
there are AGP X800XT's around
AHII itself will be fine with the 9600xt you've already got.... other games however will take advantage of the X800XT....games like doom, farcry, HL2, FS2004 etc etc.....
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:lol see you in the unfriendly skys overlag.
Tired of the unecessary flames, plenty of civil discussion elsewhere.
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My planned upgrade will be an Athlon64 3500+ on an nForce4 chipset, 1gb RAM and running a couple of nVidia 6800 PCI Express cards in SLI.
What I actually end up with will be determined by by actual budget.;)
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Karnak - Hope you have a couple of healthy kidneys to hock :)
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Nah, that should come in at about $1,100 to $1,300.
I'm not geting 6800 Ultras.
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Originally posted by SilverFox
:lol see you in the unfriendly skys overlag.
Tired of the unecessary flames, plenty of civil discussion elsewhere.
ive not been flaming anyone?:confused:
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No Overlag but you did disagree with him, he obviously has a problem with that.
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On my intel 2.4 w/1 gig mem and a 9600XT... I ran a PCMark of 3105.... On 3DMark5 only a 830...What does the avg PC here run?
This should provide me/us with data on were our systems stand..
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Originally posted by mettech
On my intel 2.4 w/1 gig mem and a 9600XT... I ran a PCMark of 3105.... What does the avg PC here run?
This should provide me/us with data on were our systems stand..
i think i got 6000 something, not sure dont really run PCmark
try 3dmark 2001.. I get 21k on that.
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Well, since you asked, my SFF system (mentioned previously) is a P4 at 3.0 gig with 1 gig of ram, a 9800Pro (clocked to 9800XT speeds, since this model came wiith the XT's R360 GPU and an oversized heatsink), Sound Blaster Audigy LS, and a 200gig Seagate SATA drive, I get 6720 on 3DMark 2003.
When I overclock the CPU it goes higher, of course, but AH runs great without having to bother with it, so I don't.
Remember, that's a compact system that's quiet, easy to transport, and well under $1000.
-Llama
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Llama,
On my athlonXP 2000+ and 6800GT, I get 10422 in 3dmark2003. The 6 series nvidia cards and the X800 cards from ATI really are faster even with a slow cpu like mine.
YMMV of course, and no matter what hardware you have you'll always find a bottleneck somewhere in your system for any particular game.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Nice post MOSQ. I agree many people put too much emphasis in the Futuremark scores. As the video card drivers will alter the behavior of the hardware when they detect the benchmark running, I think it rather bogus these days.
There is nothing wrong with having a fast CPU. Nothing at all wrong with that approach. But it is a balancing act. If the CPU is much too fast for the video card, then you have potential stalling, where the CPU is being held up waiting for the video card.
If the video card is too fast for the CPU, then the video card is waiting. This particular situation is preferred to the one where the CPU is over-running the video card though.
Unfortunately, every configuration is different. The various software items a system has loaded impacts the overall performance of the system. This makes it very difficult to make suggestions as to which hardware configurations are appropriate. Most people take the 'big hammer' approach.
MOSQ, you are experiencing what you should, but you are not grasping the reasons why. The video card switch out is a shining example. The 5200 is not a bad card, but turn on the animation of water and watch it tank versus the 9800.
Skuzzy....
I'm looking at grabbing some flavor of athlon 64 during or after the holiday season. I've got dual 10,000 rpm 8mg buffer drives and 1 gig of PC3200 memory in my current system...I'm still using a Ti-4200 and get better FPS then many (all at default). I've got zero playability issues with AH2. Just keep the same card for now or does it make sense to upgrade (and to what?)...current MB is a 8xAGP gigabyte runing a "barton core" 2500+...
Also for my purposes (home box+AH2){I have seperate home business box} does the "flavor" of 64 matter much...2800 vs 3000 vs 3200???
thanks
PS....turning on animated water has zero FPS effect on my card/system???
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eagl....
I'm curious...your running a slower CPU than I am with a much stronger card. I'm not at all unhappy with game performance but have the "upgrade" twitch:)....currently thinking about upgrading CPU/MB but obviously you went the other route...what was your previous card (sorry if I missed it) and how big a "jump" did you get.
Since my Ti-4200 keeps truckin along I kind of feel like I can go the CPU/MB route and then upgrade the VC later (feeling the better "deal" is on the CPU/MB side right now...
All thoughts appreciate....basically at spend -30 (days) or so...
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Suppose it all depends on how much eye candy you want.
My system (see sig) even using 1024 textures and sliders nearly all the way to 'detail' I get 50+ on average.
Looking to get a 6800GT should see a difference.
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Kev with a 6800gt you will see a difference, just not in AH.
Actually no you will be able to preload all in vid memory but thats about it as far as any improvement.
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Humble,
The card I was using before was a GF4-4200 128 meg.
I got around 10-20% FPS increase with the same settings, but I was able to turn FSAA up with almost no loss in framerate. My system still chugs badly when I turn the AH2 sliders up and the trees start getting more visible, but if I turn them down a bit I can average 40+ fps at 1280x1024 with 2x or 4x FSAA turned on, and the image quality is better than it was with the 4200. I'm definately cpu limited in AH2. It's not as bad in other games (like doom3 for example) and my benchmark scores aren't too horrible, so it might depend on what games you plan on playing. AH doesn't have any killer features that require better video card capabilities and it looks nearly the same across the entire spectrum of video cards. For many people, framerate and resolution are all that matter in a flightsim and with AH you can get that with a pretty low end vid card if you turn the detail level down a bit and have a good cpu. I decided I wanted to squeeze every last image quality drop out of the game and my cpu is still fast enough to get me reasonable framerates, so I figured I'd get the biggest CHANGE out of a new vid card. The ideal solution of course is to upgrade both the gpu and cpu, and that's the plan eventually.
I figure I can go for the cpu/mobo upgrade later on without having to get a new vid card too. The next generation of video cards may not be widely released for AGP, and I plan on sticking with an AGP mobo for one more upgrade in order to take advantage of the price drop AGP systems will see when pci-x really takes hold. I figure another 6 months to a year ought to do it, and then I'll be able to spring for at least an athlon 64 3500 on a socket 939 board with AGP, and it should cost 1/3 less than it does now. The hard part will be timing the memory market since the new DDR standard isn't mature enough yet to get wide acceptance however the new pci-x chipsets should force everyone to transfer to the new memory at the same time we're all forced to go with pci-x. If I do it right, I should be able to pick up a gig or two of PC2700 or faster DDR as demand drops off but while inventory levels are still up there.
Or I could be overthinking it :) Either way, I'll have a reasonably well matched system when I get around to upgrading the cpu/mobo and I've spread the financial pain out. If I'd upgraded the cpu/mobo/ram first, that would have cost me $700ish for what I wanted and then I'd be badly graphics card limited. As it is, I spent only $400 on the vid card and I'm cpu limited, but in a few months the parts that would have cost me $700 will be down to $500 or less, while the fast AGP vid cards will probably still be seeing high enough demand to keep prices high.
In the long run it's probably cheaper to buy the entire system at once even if it costs a ton up front instead of alternating the upgrades one part at a time, but this way I can afford slightly better parts than I'd otherwise be able to get and that keeps me reasonably happy with my overall system performance all the time instead of being really happy for a few months, then having to wait until I'm totally pissed off at a sucky slow system before I buy a whole new one.
It's also easier to hide a part at a time from the wife :)
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Hi Cav - Already preload all textures to main mem, with 5gb/s+ transfer rates doesnt seem to slow anything down. One good advantage of Athlon64's- insanely high memory transfer rates :).
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I just pulled a xp 2500+, that was running at xp3200 speeds, out of my system and upgraded to a 64 3400+ . talk about night to day . I was amazed at the performance increase in AH2 . i run a 9800pro, and i was going to replace the video card till skuzzy and a few others said i was prolly cpu limited . They sure were right. my frames would definetly slow way down on the deck in a furball, i couldnt run default settings , I had to turn ground range almost all the way off..... now with the new chip, if they drop 5-6 frames in a big furball over a smokin base thats alot . Ihave raised the texture rate to 512 with 4xAA, and i no longer have to preload textures in ram , it runs the same preloading and not preloading.
just a comparision for ya all 38
64 bit 3400+
znf-250 chaintech
9800pro
512 pc3200
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that was part of the problem with the XP ratings near the end....
a XP3200 gets totaly thrashed by an A64 3200...which now gets totaly thrashed by a A64 3200 in 939 socket too....
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Originally posted by mettech
On my intel 2.4 w/1 gig mem and a 9600XT... I ran a PCMark of 3105.... On 3DMark5 only a 830...What does the avg PC here run?
This should provide me/us with data on were our systems stand..
2350 on 3dmakr 05.
whels
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It's also easier to hide a part at a time from the wife:rofl :aok
thanks...
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Nice idea.... Hummmm