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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Guppy35 on November 06, 2004, 06:36:44 PM

Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Guppy35 on November 06, 2004, 06:36:44 PM
Saw this on another site.

http://www.avpics.de/lffamp/fw190flug3.wmv

Dan/Slack
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: JB73 on November 06, 2004, 06:41:29 PM
dude TY

man i would give my right nut for that thing lol
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 06, 2004, 07:44:27 PM
Awesome! But they gotta fix that screwed up cowl contour...
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: SunTracker on November 07, 2004, 07:44:59 AM
LOL HE FORGOT TO RAISE HIS LANDING GEAR
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: eilif on November 07, 2004, 01:42:49 PM
ya whats with that , great vid tho! they proly didnt want him to get too carried away.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Tails on November 07, 2004, 02:12:54 PM
Probably a test flight.

Most aircraft going through initial test flights dont retract the gear.
That way, if something goes wrong with, say, the hydraulic system, they dont have to find out the hard way if their emergency landing gear system works (assuming they even have one).
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Nilsen on November 07, 2004, 04:47:32 PM
Are these planes slightly scaled down from original size? 4/5 or something?
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Crumpp on November 07, 2004, 06:24:53 PM
Nope,

It's the actual size.  That is the primary reason the FW-190 had less form drag than the Spitfire.  Ounce for Ounce it did not, but factor in the physical size and it comes out ahead.

Crumpp
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: ra on November 07, 2004, 06:50:40 PM
Too bad they didn't film the landing, that would have been interesting to see.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GScholz on November 08, 2004, 01:41:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ra
Too bad they didn't film the landing, that would have been interesting to see.


Here's a vid of the first test flight. Basically just a take-off and landing.



http://www.flugwerk.com/new/film/fw_190_airborne_768.wmv
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Pongo on November 08, 2004, 01:42:45 AM
I aggree about the cowl. the first foot looks like an la7..wonder why?
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GScholz on November 08, 2004, 01:45:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
I aggree about the cowl. the first foot looks like an la7..wonder why?


It's got the same engine ;)
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Charge on November 08, 2004, 01:59:42 AM
I don't agree about the cowl.

IMO it is just the way it was in original FW190. (then again, maybe it IS too angular...)

BTW those slight smokepuffs in flight and on the ground idling were rather strange. From the colour I'd think that its oil burning. A valve failure perhaps?

-C+
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Wolfala on November 08, 2004, 02:57:13 AM
Are they using a BMW engine or a russian plant?
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GScholz on November 08, 2004, 03:07:05 AM
Russian Asch 82, which is a modernized version of the La-5/7 power plant.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GScholz on November 08, 2004, 03:08:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
BTW those slight smokepuffs in flight and on the ground idling were rather strange. From the colour I'd think that its oil burning. A valve failure perhaps?

-C+


Naw ... don't think so. Radials always burn a little oil.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 08, 2004, 03:30:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
I aggree about the cowl. the first foot looks like an la7..wonder why?


Naaa.  The La7 front cowling is more rounded.  And looking at fictures of Ash 82 I see no reason why it would require a different, more angular, front cowl profile on FW190.  

I just dont know why its off.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: gripen on November 08, 2004, 03:43:05 AM
IIRC the engine is actually a Chinese version of the M-82/ASch-82. Older Russian helicopter types use this engine (namely Mi-4 and derivates).

gripen
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Angus on November 08, 2004, 04:24:06 AM
Whoa baby, what a plane.
Oh, noticed 2 things.
1. Shouldn't the pilot be more like tilted backwards?
2. Why was he wearing the mask? Was the 190 cockpit dirty?
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: gripen on November 08, 2004, 04:51:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
2. Why was he wearing the mask? Was the 190 cockpit dirty?


Probably for the exhaust fumes, a very common reason for the accidents.

gripen
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GScholz on November 08, 2004, 05:13:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
1. Shouldn't the pilot be more like tilted backwards?


No, he was tilted backwards. It's just the head shield behind him that gives you the wrong impression. The seatback is tilted backwards, but the head is tilted forwards to improve view (like a TV chair). He also had a chute-pack on his back; in WWII they sat on them.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Angus on November 08, 2004, 05:49:20 AM
Ahh, had to be.
I have somewhere on my HD some good interior pics from a 190.
Compared to the cabins of other WW2 aircraft it looks like something from the jet age, - very modern.
The tilting looked almost uncomfortably much back.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: SunTracker on November 08, 2004, 05:57:55 AM
Does any company build replica P51s?
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: MiloMorai on November 08, 2004, 06:02:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
. He also had a chute-pack on his back; in WWII they sat on them.


Not true. Pips Priller exiting the cockpit of his 190.

(http://www.sspanzer.net/flyweapon/fw-190/image/fwpips.jpg)

Angus, here you go.

(http://www.albentley-drawings.com/images/FW190A59FG.Fuse%20Geom.jpg)

from http://www.albentley-drawings.com/fw190a_f_g.htm
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Angus on November 08, 2004, 06:06:03 AM
Suntracker:
I can remember 2 replica 51's in a glitch.
1st one is a wooden one, roughly half-scale with a rotax engine, - search Loehle aircraft on the net.
The second is the Stewart P51, much more serious design with hundreds of horses under the hood, also a quite good performance.

Have a look here as well, - a little spitty, about as expensive as a good jeep:
http://www.supermarineaircraft.com

That 190 is rather more expensive, but its also the real thing..
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: frank3 on November 08, 2004, 06:48:49 AM
Wow! I always thought the Fw-190 was a big, P-47ish buff! (not ugly though)
but after seeing this video I disagree with me :) it seems very nimble!
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Angus on November 08, 2004, 06:59:58 AM
It's basically the smallest aircraft with that much power in front of it.
Very clever design.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Shane on November 08, 2004, 07:07:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
Wow! I always thought the Fw-190 was a big, P-47ish buff! (not ugly though)
but after seeing this video I disagree with me :) it seems very nimble!


i used to think the same, but it's even smaller than a p-51 and not that much bigger than a 109.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: MiloMorai on November 08, 2004, 07:11:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
It's basically the smallest aircraft with that much power in front of it.
Very clever design.


The La-5/7 was slightly smaller, 9.8m to 10.5 m wing span.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: gripen on November 08, 2004, 07:41:14 AM
IMHO the FW 190 was about a mid size WWII fighter if we look wing area, there were several signifigantly smaller like the Yak-3 and other Yaks, Bf 109, J22, D.520, He 100, VG.33, La serie, etc... and even more if we look the weight.

gripen
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GScholz on November 08, 2004, 08:02:31 AM
Actually the Fw190A is a few inches shorter than a Bf109, but has a few inches greater wingspan.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Pongo on November 08, 2004, 10:36:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Naaa.  The La7 front cowling is more rounded.  And looking at fictures of Ash 82 I see no reason why it would require a different, more angular, front cowl profile on FW190.  

I just dont know why its off.


In side profile the first few inches of the cowl look just like an la7, that even curv that meets a cylinder main cowl, the real FW is a more complex shape.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GScholz on November 08, 2004, 10:53:47 AM
(http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/440340-2.jpg)

(http://www.flugwerk.com/new/images/0904/gDSC_0049.jpg)
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Wolfala on November 08, 2004, 12:22:43 PM
It still looks damn sexy - should serve as a good paradigm for other warbird companies since the fleet is getting old and fatigue life would be an issue with keeping others in the air.

Wolfala
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 08, 2004, 12:31:51 PM
Yep something is just plain off. Notice how the MG cover bulges are totaly wrong as well.. :(
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: MiloMorai on November 08, 2004, 12:36:33 PM
Anyone know the diameters of the BMW 801 and the ASh-82?

If the 82 is slightly larger, might explain the nose shape.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GScholz on November 08, 2004, 12:38:40 PM
The nose seems to be a bit shorter on the Flugwek 190. Perhaps the new engine is heavier than the BMW and needs to be placed closer to the centre of lift for balance. Also the gun bulges now covers the oil cooler, so that's probably why they are enlarged a bit.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: MiloMorai on November 08, 2004, 12:49:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Also the gun bulges now covers the oil cooler, so that's probably why they are enlarged a bit.


The oil cooler is not in the nose ring any more?
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Charge on November 08, 2004, 12:54:11 PM
Maybe the a/c in the old pic is G or F -6? That would explain the smallish cowling bulges. IMO the MG131 bulges are a quite pronounced difference between A6 and A7 and that is not very evident in that pic.

I don't know what kind of cowling they used for G models which lacked the MG armament. Was it normal MG171 cowling with gun ports faired shut, or did it depend of what variant the G conversion was made of?

-C+
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 08, 2004, 12:58:09 PM
The plane is an F8 and the bulges are for MG131.  As you can see in the picture its sort of a myth that the MG131 bulges were huge bulbous things.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Pongo on November 08, 2004, 12:59:17 PM
It is shorter...maybe they would have been better off building an A3?
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 08, 2004, 12:59:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The nose seems to be a bit shorter on the Flugwek 190. Perhaps the new engine is heavier than the BMW and needs to be placed closer to the centre of lift for balance. Also the gun bulges now covers the oil cooler, so that's probably why they are enlarged a bit.


Yea I noticed it looks shrter and that they butchered the MG throughs to fit an oil cooler air intake there.. :(
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 08, 2004, 01:00:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MiloMorai
The oil cooler is not in the nose ring any more?


Yep, moved to the cowl MG position.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: GScholz on November 08, 2004, 01:15:28 PM
Changing the power plant to a completely different engine without making visible changes is rather difficult.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Wolfala on November 08, 2004, 02:41:42 PM
No way they could just tear down a BMW and refab 1? Goin russian is easier?
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: 2bighorn on November 08, 2004, 02:59:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wolfala
No way they could just tear down a BMW and refab 1? Goin russian is easier?
It's sold as a kit, I doubt they would find enough BMW engines.
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: niklas on November 08, 2004, 03:01:19 PM
Those engines were laying around in huge masses, cheap and  reliable because they were designed for civil purposes. BMW makes good money currently but i doubt they would have remanufactored a small 801 series. So yes, itīs easier to take these engines and adopt them to the fw airframe which makes only a difference of 5cm in length afair. Afaik a research institue (TU München?) was somehow involved in calculating the efficience this cooler layout, so it isnīt a try and error system. The original gap of the cooler is closed.
Afaik the engine has only  a single supercharger stage, but i doubt the aircraft will be taken too often to high altitude.

oh, and the ailerons are much larger on WW2 fighter aircrafts than they appear in those photos, huh i was really impressed standing next to a "lonley" wing at Flugwerk 2 years ago.

niklas
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Guppy35 on November 08, 2004, 03:36:40 PM
Some good photos of that Flugwerke 190.

Some different angles on the cowling and the bulges included.

Dan/Slack
http://community.webshots.com/album/213812882sBYsCi/0
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: mars01 on November 08, 2004, 03:47:02 PM
Quote
LOL HE FORGOT TO RAISE HIS LANDING GEAR

Mission Bug:D
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Guppy35 on November 08, 2004, 03:53:45 PM
Sure looks like they added something to the Flugwerke 190 bulge

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1099950504_190bulge.jpg)
Title: Flugwerke 190 in flight video
Post by: Howitzer on November 09, 2004, 09:59:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
LOL HE FORGOT TO RAISE HIS LANDING GEAR


Nah, its just the mission bug from AH1   =)