Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Am0n on December 26, 2001, 07:00:00 AM
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Frenchy just wanted to see if you had any more useful p-47 films that i could veiw? The last one you gave me helped tremendously, anything would be appreitciated. Anything will do, just want more pointers to see what im doing wrong. If not thanks again for the first one, very useful.
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Hey I wanna see them too!
Here's one of mine:
MrRip's P47 run (http://users.kymp.net/cable130/basedefence.zip)
[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Mr RiplEy ]
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Cool thanks mrRipley, i'll check it out when i am at home. i should post one of mine so someone can review it, "how not to fly a jug" hehe
:)
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I've found out that the jug is really versatile if you use it correctly. With full flaps it can turn with most planes in the arena - a fact which many do not expect and I can use as my advantage.
Then its just a matter of using that huge ammo load of the thing to spray around untill your foe is doa. :)
Also if youre defensive, collect up some speed and then use the roll-rate to outroll your enemy. I'll see if I can dig up a film with that too.
Ok this is not exactly P47 but the similar approach should work with it too.
Ripley doing the F4u thing - and getting wasted (http://users.kymp.net/cable130/film22.ahf)
[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Mr RiplEy ]
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Hi Guys, Frenchy is currently indesposed and may or may not be able to check this board.
As far as some good P-47 films, I can get ya some good ones too.
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Ammo thank you, i would love to have any films from any one. Ecspecialy you zemkes wolfpack fellows.. never had such a hard time killing 2 low, on the deck p47s with my self having a 10k alt advantage.. was great fun. got on of um though :)
please do sir! <S>
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S!
Nice basedefence MrRiplEy, too bad you ran outta gas! :)
Great example of disciplined BnZ'ing.
Would like to see more jug films too. Post'em please. 56th surely has good films and wouldn't actually mind if Drex post some too (he keeps them in safe place where nobody can watch them! ;)
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vector
XO 348th FG "Kearby's Thunderbolts"
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I find nothing more "eye opening" than watching peoples films, people who have been "flying" for more than 4 months like my self. you guys truely rocks :)
Frenchy gave me a film well over a month ago that i still watch. When i get frustrated from dieing, i try to log and watch them.
the jug is the king of BNZ, hands down. I tried the 190A8 out, nice plane but such a whimpy set of guns.. 30mm+20mm, no fun. I want something that takes more than half a ping to kill something, something i can unload with and rip apart the target into confetti :)
love just shredding a plane! :D
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Ok, here's one more that really made me sweat:
Low'n slow in P47 (http://users.kymp.net/cable130/lowandslow.zip)
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Thanks again mrripley, exttra cool because i also fly the f4u :)
havent gotten a chance to check them out, still "hard at work" lol :D
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S!
I have one D-11 vs. D-11 stall fight film. Like a gentleman, Sancho asked me for a dance and up and down we went! :D
Was good fight, althought I had way too much fuel and other great excuses why I finally stalled (again)and crashed. <S> Sancho :) D-11 stall fight (http://www.kolumbus.fi/cool/sancho.zip)
(206kb)
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vector
XO 348th FG "Kearby's Thunderbolts"
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Great fight..
I liked the way you tried to force overshoot, if you'd use full flaps at that stage you'd probably make it. Equal planes and equal pilot skills.. nerve breaking fights :)
If I would have fought that fight, I'd try to get snapshots in from every scissoring merge, it won't bring him down straight away, but the cumulative effect usually does. In a scissor fight like that usually all it takes is a twitch of rudder to get 1 seconds gun solution.
Btw Am0n that F4u film isn't anything compared to the earlier fight where I killed 2 fighters and 3 goons in a single sortie :))) I was po'd I wasn't filming. I couldn't believe my luck that time.. I was chuckling quietly thinking of how frustrated the attackers must have been having all 3 goons killed by a lone f4u (P14 was heavily attacked with me the only rook fighter up there.)
[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Mr RiplEy ]
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S!
Before merge, I knew sancho was coming mach 1.2 with his polished, hacked & cracked jug and if I'd turn to him, he'd gain even more e-advantage so I decided to try to suck his E down. Also I thought I'd have a snapshot opportunity after merge and make sancho to go defensive. Well it went wrong at the very beginning as he dove, I didn't expect that. And I didn't bring him down... I stalled :) Yes more flap usage could bring more possibilities, but I just hadn't time enough to think, sancho was all over me.
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vector
XO 348th FG "Kearby's Thunderbolts"
[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: vector ]
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I just had a review of the film.
Interesting fight.
You had him at first... so close. He actually overshot you, but you didn't capitalise on it. Just as things start to even out in the rolling scissors again, you bailed and dove. You can't do that. Once you get into a rolling scissors like that, you must stick with it at all costs. The guy that give up first loses. You are trying to fly the slowest at that point, so if you try and cut and run, you just can't get away fast enough and you'll get hit. If you are going to cut and run, you need to do it just as or before you overshoot, and at a moment that you are in a spot where he can't see you. As you cross in the scissors and you see you are losing, a good time is just after you cross and are beneath his plane, roll out into a 0 G dive towards home and hope you get enough of a head start.
When he merged on you with more E, you did the right thing, but you should have been full flaps and on the stall horn. After that, you have to ride the edge of the stall horn and hang it out for all your worth. The guy that can fly it slowest, wins.
Now, once you had him starting to overshoot, you want to be VERY careful. Don't try to get a shot too early, because if you do, you pull lead pursuit or relax your pull in the scissors. If you pull lead or relax your pull in the scissors, you are closing the distance.... you are headed for an overshoot. This is exactly what happened, Sancho overshoots, but you don't capitalise, so he works hard and forces you to overshoot, putting him back in the driver's seat. Once you are on his tail, fly to a point behind his aircraft. If he is crossing your line of sight, sure take the shot, but be careful not to relax the stick in your turn, or if you are almost saddled, don't pull lead on him. You want to fly into lag pursuit so you can get firmly saddled and wait for a really nice shot.
Nice flying, both of you. :)
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Thanks guys, i really enjoyed veiwing these films. MrRipley that base defense film opened my eyes to a LOT of things.. Thank you. I noticed you dive from over 6k out sometimes, thats incredible.
- Are you chopping throttle when you dive? i normaly build up to much speed diving from even 4k out.
- Dive flaps, i've never truely understood there purpose. Are they designed to keep you from compressing? And you only extending them at high speeds?
- When you are at the climax of your zoom are you using the rudder mostly to turn your self around?
- Are you insane head oning a la7 4 times? :)
theres many other things i noted watching you fly, im sure there will be more the more i watch it, and i will many times over. I seen its not how sharp you can turn that really counts, but what angle you come in at. Also i, before this, was playing a game of "chase the enemy ICON", and not setting up for a good merge, which i will now work on. Its a very bad habbit, i seem to have my plane pointed at them from even 4k out until i close, insted of find there directional heading and trying to merge with it. i always thought that this was a bad thing, and after seeing these films i now KNOW it is.
After wacthing your films my first sortie, landed 5 A2A kills in my jug.. Then a few sorties later i raised complete hell on the deck in a zero. thanks again <S>
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Vector
i cant say much more than lephturn about your film, listen to the man he helped me more than ANYONE ever has in this game. And the unlucky guy was helping a tin horn rookie (me) who had problems flying to the fight, let alone dog fighting.
one thing i will add though is that i think you done well simply becuase you didnt die when he first boomed down on you. Ive had it out with sancho before, and getting that far in the fight is damn good in my book :)
lephturn good to see ya back <S>
THANKS ALL!!!!! <S>
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Are you chopping throttle when you dive? i normaly build up to much speed diving from even 4k out.
Dive flaps, i've never truely understood there purpose. Are they designed to keep you from compressing? And you only extending them at high speeds?
When you are at the climax of your zoom are you using the rudder mostly to turn your self around?
Are you insane head oning a la7 4 times?
Yes, naturally I chop throttle if I go vertical for too long or approach compressibility. With experience you'll learn how to ride the edge of compression to get the most boom out of your plane.
Dive flaps.. I guess they don't have that much effect in AH as they were in real life. Basically theyre supposed to give you a little nose pull if / when you enter compression while doing a little airbreak too.
I turn both using elevator and rudder to turn on the top of the zoom, depending of my speed and time available. I rarely do a pure hammerhead where you let the stall drop the nose. If you noticed, that low'n slow movie started with a perfect rope-a-dope of the 190. In that one I zoomed up, watched the 190 slow down and then just turned down to finish him off.
Am I insane HO'ing LA7 4 times? No. The LA7 was insane to let me HO him 4 times with a broken wing :) Those .50 are nasty when they hit. Too bad I couldn't aim with the wing missing. Very often I can still use this as the last approach to avoid a certain doom. It's dweebish I know, but I'm not gonna let a LA7 have anything easy while I'm low in F4u or a jug.
Glad to hear you found new approaches from my films.. I'm quite new to jugs also. Flown them for 3 last TODs, not exclusively though.
[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: Mr RiplEy ]
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AHHH! i didnt realize you were damaged in those HO's.. i woulda done the same thing. lol
I really learned a lot from your films, i was acutaly able to go H2H with a co-alt 190 last night, we merged HO and both went vertical and i was able to get around for a gun solution before he was.. thats a first for me :)
He eventualy had to bug out!
thanks again!
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Thanks for you replies.
Well I must say leph that you're very perceptive and you have a gift to put things into words. That is one thing that makes you a superb trainer!
Originally posted by Lephturn:
You had him at first... so close. He actually overshot you, but you didn't capitalise on it. Just as things start to even out in the rolling scissors again, you bailed and dove.
At that point I stalled, lost control of the plane, I had to dove and I knew I've lost the fight at that point, althought I almost made him overshoot at the deck.
Now, once you had him starting to overshoot, you want to be VERY careful. Don't try to get a shot too early, because if you do, you pull lead pursuit or relax your pull in the scissors. If you pull lead or relax your pull in the scissors, you are closing the distance.... you are headed for an overshoot. This is exactly what happened, Sancho overshoots, but you don't capitalise, so he works hard and forces you to overshoot, putting him back in the driver's seat.
Yes I noticed that I spent too much time for trying to get my first snapshot, I'd have maneuver and try to gain angles instead.
S!
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vector
XO 348th FG "Kearby's Thunderbolts"
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Originally posted by Am0n:
Anything will do, just want more pointers to see what im doing wrong. If not thanks again for the first one, very useful.
AmOn, here are 3 Drex vs. Lephturn fights. Nice rolling scissors stuff.
http://gandalf.totalcs.com/drexleph1.zip (http://gandalf.totalcs.com/drexleph1.zip) http://gandalf.totalcs.com/drexleph2.zip (http://gandalf.totalcs.com/drexleph2.zip) http://gandalf.totalcs.com/drexleph3.zip (http://gandalf.totalcs.com/drexleph3.zip)
curly
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Curly you are the man, thank you. I'll check them out when i get home tonight from "work".
thats gotta be good stuff.. last night i was watching lephturn fight @ 5k in a p47-30 very effectively, funny he was fighting lower than i was and i was flying a Zero. :)
thanks again!
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Anyone know a good free web site i can upload to and link from here? i want to share some stuff if anyone wants to critique(Sp) it.. also want to share a great sortie i had just last night, 9 air-to-air kills in a p47-30. thats a personal best for me :)
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Send me a note at sconrad@hfx.eastlink.ca and I can set you up. I have a little server up at home we can use. :)
I'm pretty rusty right now. I'm better at helping others than actually doing it myself I think. :) I did have a blast yesterday though. I went several fights 2 vs me with a pair of Nits, an La7 and a 205. I got killed, but I had a bast... nothing like stallfighting a Jug on the deck. :D Amon I died in one of those because I pushed a bit hard and snap-rolled it into the drink at 50 feet. Stallfighting at low alt in a Jug is a bad idea if you have any gas left in your Aux tank btw.... burn it off first. I've now switched back to running 75% internal instead of 50% and a drop so I can make SURE the Aux is empty before I try throwing the Jug around at low speed.
Yeah I know, I should be flying a Hellcat for this stuff... but I just LOVE surprising people with what the Jug can do.
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
Yeah I know, I should be flying a Hellcat for this stuff... but I just LOVE surprising people with what the Jug can do.
Tell me about it! i saw you fly over a fully acked base 3 times @ 3-4k chasing that ack hugger.. i was holding my breath the whole time LOL (i dont know if you saw on the country channel but i asked you if you were insane hehe) you didnt seem to take a hit either.. damn nice flying :)
i'll email you about the films. The 9 kill sortie film is kinda long and in 2 parts becuase i accidently stopped recording and had to restart it. (i was flying real well and though "i should record this", totaly forgot it was already recording lol) :)
I was using pure BNZ tactics vrs turn fighters that were on the deck of a field we were capping.
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Originally posted by vector:
[QB]I have one D-11 vs. D-11 stall fight film. Like a gentleman, Sancho asked me for a dance and up and down we went! :D
Was good fight, althought I had way too much fuel and other great excuses why I finally stalled (again)and crashed. <S> Sancho :) D-11 stall fight (http://www.kolumbus.fi/cool/sancho.zip)
(206kb)
Janne, you may be interested to see what the fight looked like from my side. ;)
my film (http://www1.jump.net/~cs3/films/sancho_vs_vector.zip) (238kb)
Lephturn's assessment of our match is spot on. I shoulda zoomed at the merge but I was a little impatient (had just discoed a few minutes earlier after merging with Kronos in another P-47 on P-47 fight and was eager to get into the fight) and tried to get guns on him quickly. That was a mistake; I overshot and Janneh got a few good chances at me. All I could do was try to roll my wings perpendicular to his and pull when I saw him getting close to a shot while trying to slow myself down enough to get inside his turns. Lucky for me he went low and I was able to saddle up, although he almost threw me off again at the end. I heard in the film he was cutting his engine to slow down. :D
Very fun fight, Vector. <S>
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Sure was nice film :)
You were able to put the pressure all the time, I actually hadn't any good chances for a snapshot tho. I'd use more flaps too. Well, "we'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when...."
:)
<S>!
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vector
XO 348th FG "Kearby's Thunderbolts"