Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SlapShot on November 08, 2004, 12:26:15 PM

Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: SlapShot on November 08, 2004, 12:26:15 PM
From Pyro ...

"One other bit of news unrelated to the patch is that the P-38 is currently undergoing renovation. Any skins created for the current P-38 will be made obsolete when the new model is released in the next version."

That is fantastic news !!!

Can you gives us anymore insight/detail Pyro ?
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 08, 2004, 12:36:50 PM
I'd guess it also means we are getting an early model P38 in the next patch.
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Guppy35 on November 08, 2004, 12:39:12 PM
Could we get that lucky?  And please Pyro and company, let the skins be workable as in let us get at anti-glare panals, do something about the shine so folks can do OD/Gray birds etc etc.

Not that we don't appreciate all the work you guys are doing :)

Dan/Slack
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: oboe on November 08, 2004, 12:42:57 PM
Good news indeed!

Pyro, would it be possible to let the skinners know the order in which you plan to rennovate planes?    It may end up saving someone wasted work - we could spend our time and efforts skinning planes that aren't due for upgrade for some time, and wait until after an impending upgrade is completed before starting a certain skin.

Will the next patch support for the specularity flag talked about, to give skinners control of the shininess of an aircraft?

!
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: LazerTED on November 08, 2004, 01:12:58 PM
Awesome... Can't wait to see what happens.

:D
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: thebest1 on November 08, 2004, 01:34:43 PM
w00tness
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: SlapShot on November 08, 2004, 01:35:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Could we get that lucky?  And please Pyro and company, let the skins be workable as in let us get at anti-glare panals, do something about the shine so folks can do OD/Gray birds etc etc.

Not that we don't appreciate all the work you guys are doing :)

Dan/Slack


I would imagine that the anti-glare panels would be one of the more important things that they will be adjusting as far as the artwork goes. I spoke with Pyro about this at the con.

The specularity (shinnyness), I think, is going to be fixed on a "global" skinning basis. I read in the Skinning Forum that they will be providing a switch that will turn on/off specularity for the "plane". This is currently a problem on the new B-24 and has been promised to be fixed.

I hope that during this over-haul, they also take a deeper look at the flight model and see if they can stop the nasty snap-rolls and flat spins that still plague the P-38.

I wouldn't be suprized if we see an H Model soon ... :D
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: LazerTED on November 08, 2004, 01:42:57 PM
Just as long as it doesn't turn into a spitV... I like a challenge. :D
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Sandog on November 08, 2004, 02:00:09 PM
Great news!
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: daddog on November 08, 2004, 03:05:42 PM
:D
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: eilif on November 08, 2004, 03:47:50 PM
WAHOO!  cant wait for my plane to get perty!:aok :aok :aok
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: vorticon on November 08, 2004, 03:58:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eilif
WAHOO!  cant wait for my plane to get perty!:aok :aok :aok


only one way to do that

(http://ksut.krasnoyarsk.su/~syt/events/nkf9/komtur/GHK/Statistics/atomic_explosion.jpg)
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Stang on November 08, 2004, 04:14:37 PM
Woot!
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: KootDawg on November 08, 2004, 06:10:31 PM
cool
:aok
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Kweassa on November 08, 2004, 07:19:25 PM
Congrats P-38-lubbers! :)
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 08, 2004, 09:15:53 PM
Bah!  They finally decided to revise the P-38 now that I've stopped playing.




ack-ack
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: LazerTED on November 09, 2004, 06:40:46 AM
Well, this is a good reason for me to resubscribe. :D
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on November 09, 2004, 09:32:08 AM
Quote
One other bit of news unrelated to the patch is that the P-38 is currently undergoing renovation. Any skins created for the current P-38 will be made obsolete when the new model is released in the next version.


pls hitech don't waste ur time on that stupid P38

It's ony flown by account sluts and other stupid not to mention street scum.

why not modell another FW or 109


:rolleyes: :confused: :mad:
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: TheDudeDVant on November 09, 2004, 10:51:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Bah!  They finally decided to revise the P-38 now that I've stopped playing.




ack-ack


lol  My thoughts too.. If they do that, I just might have to download the last update... the new one too i suppose..
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: oboe on November 09, 2004, 11:52:12 AM
I just reread Pyro's update, and I'm thinking now there is a difference between the upcoming "patch" and the next "version".    So now I'm not expecting a new P-38 in a couple days.

Anyone else read it that way?
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Guppy35 on November 09, 2004, 12:05:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by oboe
I just reread Pyro's update, and I'm thinking now there is a difference between the upcoming "patch" and the next "version".    So now I'm not expecting a new P-38 in a couple days.

Anyone else read it that way?


Yep.  

But I think the idea that the 38 is getting worked on, even for the new version down the line, got folks blood pumping.

Dan/Slack
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Mister Fork on November 09, 2004, 01:01:43 PM
ummmmm mmmm... another big USAAF bird to shoot down. Bring it on. :D
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: SELECTOR on November 09, 2004, 01:48:45 PM
it will be the same p38modle just reworked..im sure

we dont need any more american birds especialy somthing pig ugly like the 38
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: eilif on November 09, 2004, 02:35:08 PM
we should have an AH beauty pagent, There would be a "Lightening" storm.  :cool:
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: jaxxo on November 09, 2004, 02:39:47 PM
I smell some "veteran" whining involved here. Wish I could fly that damn thing lol
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Kevin14 on November 09, 2004, 05:53:33 PM
Guppy, if they were to model an early P-38, would it basically be a hack job of the current  L?
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Tails on November 09, 2004, 06:56:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SELECTOR
it will be the same p38modle just reworked..im sure

we dont need any more american birds especialy somthing pig ugly like the 38


P-38? Ugly?!?

You better be meaning that in the same context as the A-10 being 'ugly', otherwise I'll see you at the playground at three...
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Guppy35 on November 09, 2004, 07:26:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kevin14
Guppy, if they were to model an early P-38, would it basically be a hack job of the current  L?


I'd hope not.  Cockpit would look different from the windscreen to the armor to the different control wheel if they do it right.

It would be an OD/ Gray bird with small intakes as the radiators were set up differently involving the leading edge of the wing.  The intakes on the tail booms would be smaller. etc etc.

It wouldn't have the same range as the fuel tanks were smaller in the wings.  It would have no dive brake so it would be flown somewhat differently and compressability would be more of an issue.

The L obviously was a much better fighter, but the early F,G,H birds were the ones the "aces' did their work in.  Richard Bong for example had over half his kills in early model 38s.  The big 38 fights over Rabaul were in early model 38s, the MTO 38 drivers were in the thick of it with early model 38s well into 44 etc.

And personally I think the early model 38s look better with the small intakes

Image is the real Porky II flown by Major Ed Cragg of the 80th FS Headhunters.  There is a restored P38J flying in these markings on the airshow circuit.

I've seen the real bird ID'd as a G and an H.  They look the same

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1100049677_porkyii.jpg)
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on November 09, 2004, 07:50:08 PM
G and H model P-38's are lighter than the J and L models, and the H model has nearly as much power.

The H and earlier models had no outer wing tanks at all, the area that the J and L use for 55 gallon outer wing tanks is occupied by the intercoolers on the earlier model birds.

The H and earlier models also did not have power assisted ailerons. This means that the controls will become heavier at high speed and it will resist input to roll. There should be little or no change in the elevator and rudder feel. On the other hand, realize that the P-38 had a yoke and wheel, so you could use both hands to force a roll, and when combined with rudder input it rolled okay. This is only a concern at high speed. At low speed there's not the resistance to roll that there is at high speed.

The G and H models are what the 20th and 55th FG's went to war with in late 1943.

Also note that WEP time may be reduced, because without the more efficient intercoolers and oil coolers, the earlier models got hot faster.

The F and early G models would belong in the early war group, and saw action in the Med (including North Africa and over Italy and Romania) and Pacific mostly. The late G, H and even the eraly J models would be mid to late war.

The early J model would actually be considered mid war plane and a somewhat early model P-38, since even the J was not the final evolutionary model. The J models had several versions, unlike both the H and L.
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Guppy35 on November 09, 2004, 07:58:12 PM
Don't get em leaning towards a J Savage.  Let's get the H or earlier please :)

Gotta be able to do Rabaul, The Aleutians, North Africa, Sicily, etc.

And those early birds look better!

Dan/Slack
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on November 09, 2004, 11:17:10 PM
I'm not, I really have no position on which one to do. I guess the H model.

I probably won't be around to see it anyway. As of tonight, I'm gone, for a while, maybe for good. I'm keeping my subscription for 90 days, if I'm not back by then, I'm likely gone for good.
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on November 09, 2004, 11:43:25 PM
love it or hate it is usaf topscoring aircraft.

it still is

it probably (i hope) always will  be


:aok
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: killnu on November 10, 2004, 04:17:04 PM
Quote
It would have no dive brake


guppy,
i thought the J model also had "dive brake" ?
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Guppy35 on November 10, 2004, 04:26:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
guppy,
i thought the J model also had "dive brake" ?


Dive flaps were introduced with the P38J-25 series.  This was just about the same bird as the L down to the leading edge landing light if I remember right.

There were kits sent out and some earlier J models were retrofitted with the Dive flap, but it was not standard on the J until the J-25.

There were 2950 J models built before the J-25 series of which there were 210 built.  It is described as an interim P38L

Dan/Slack
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: streetstang on November 10, 2004, 04:28:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by LazerTED
Well, this is a good reason for me to resubscribe. :D


what you quit again? lmfao!
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Flyboy on November 10, 2004, 04:35:48 PM
hey P38 guru's can you lay down the difference between the "F" "G" and "H" models?
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: LazerTED on November 10, 2004, 04:59:56 PM
Yeah Morph, was in h2h for 2 weeks.  Thats all it lasted though... I am a main arena feen. :D
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: eilif on November 10, 2004, 05:34:47 PM
new patch just in, thought we would get the new p38 in this one.  :(  well i dont want them to rush it anyways, it needs to be prefecto!
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Guppy35 on November 10, 2004, 07:11:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
hey P38 guru's can you lay down the difference between the "F" "G" and "H" models?



P38F was the first real combat ready P38 with pylons for drop tanks & bombs, armor plating etc.  It was engined with the Allison V-1701-5 engine.  Meneuvering flaps were introduced on the P38F-15

P38G had the V-1701-10 engine 1400 HP with other minor tweaks to systems.

P38H had the V-1701-17 engine 1425 HP
was the most they could get out of the earlier radiator designs.  As Savage pointed out they couldn't use all the horsepower due to overheating etc.

Dan/Slack
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: OIO on November 10, 2004, 10:41:07 PM
ho , ill be waiting all right.


i do expect that $@#@ snap-roll and autoflap retracts to be removed ... anything else is just pointless eye candy on that plane.
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on November 11, 2004, 12:08:54 AM
Auto retract is here to stay, much as I hate it. I don't expect to see HTC fix it, no matter how much it needs to be fixed.

I'd like to see the manifold pressure fixed, whether it is the guage or the engine is actually not getting enough boost and making enough power. WEP should be 64" not 60", and 60" is what I see at WEP. I think it lacks boost and power.

I agree, the snap rolls and spin cycles are not in line with the real plane, at least that's what real P-38 pilots tell me.
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on November 11, 2004, 12:16:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
P38F was the first real combat ready P38 with pylons for drop tanks & bombs, armor plating etc.  It was engined with the Allison V-1701-5 engine.  Meneuvering flaps were introduced on the P38F-15

P38G had the V-1701-10 engine 1400 HP with other minor tweaks to systems.

P38H had the V-1701-17 engine 1425 HP
was the most they could get out of the earlier radiator designs.  As Savage pointed out they couldn't use all the horsepower due to overheating etc.

Dan/Slack


The H and earlier P-38's had problems with oil coolers not being efficient enough, as well as the intercoolers lacking efficiency. The leading edge intercoolers could not cool the inlet charge well enough to prevent detonation, and they were also prone to causing the antiknock compounds to drop out of the air fuel mixture, making the detonation worse. The oil coolers failed to help keep the Allisons cool. The  older planes had very little in the way of automatic engine management, I don't expect to see that modeled here.
Title: P-38 is currently undergoing renovation !!!
Post by: Guppy35 on November 11, 2004, 12:26:23 AM
Knew I could count on ya Savage :)

Thanks for the clarification

Dan/Slack