Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: tapakeg on November 10, 2004, 11:15:14 PM
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Would someone please fill me in on who REALLY Arafat was and what he stood for? I have grown up knowing of him and could identify him, (for god sakes bart simpsons changed clothes more often)
I know he was the leader of the PLO.
He won the Nobel Peace Prize.
NOW....
Who was he?
What exactly was the PLO?
Why do the PLO and Isreal hate each other so often?...Gazaa
How could a murderer and a terrorist (as depicted on this BBS ) win the Peace Prize?
I have been watching the news and realized i did not know anything about him or the region at all.
Small words, maybe even pictures :)
Tapakeg
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the nobel prizes are given out by 9 academics that live in a ivory tower in denmark and have lost touch with reality.
if you hate Isreal, arafat was a freedom fighter, if not he was a terrorist.
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Originally posted by tapakeg
How could a murderer and a terrorist (as depicted on this BBS ) win the Peace Prize?
This is a very, very good question.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
This is a very, very good question.
Indeed
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Well, in the last few days, he was dead, then he was alive, then he was dead, then he was alive, and he's currently dead again.
Aside from that, he's a guy who might have had good intentions, but appears to have robbed his people of two generations.
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No doubt....
The revelations about his squirreled away wealth adds another dimension to it.
But.... it makes no sense. The only time he's been out of his compound, a building, in the last two years, was to go somewhere to die.
So what good is it? Any of it?
In the meantime, while he was busy not spending his fortune, he was doing nothing for his people. It's so back arsewards.
His death, bless him, is a good thing. Not because it bodes well for his people. But because it can't bode any worse.
Here's hoping something changes. Couldn't before. Can now.
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Rumor has it that when not killing Jews, Arafat would travel to the high alpine meadows in Austria each spring. Where he would prance among the flowers, singing his favorite musical numbers from the Sound of Music. Classified B&W CIA photo, date unknown.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/826_1100156648_fat.jpg)
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Arafat was a terrorist plain and simple.
To the clintonites he was a way to peace but this is not true.
Everything he has doen goes against conventional diplomacy. He would rather see dead jews burning in the streets with the media reporting that he is a "cause for freedom" than see his people free from opression and prosperous.
He is a posterboy for islamic fundimentalist because he lives next door to the "enemy". Yet, his people suffer under him and an olive branch has been offered many times yet he accepts it under false pretensese, or he is powerless to keep to the peace terms.
This is a man that was corrupted by power and suported by liberals and world leaders to bring his people to soverenty and he failed miserably.
That is Yasser Arafat, may he burn in hell.
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A psychopath
Arafat
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/p...t=news&id=71848
Arch-Terrorist´s Legacy to be "Buried" in History
Many news media are reporting in the name of PA sources that arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat died yesterday in his Paris hospital bed, and that the official announcement will be made later today.
Reuters also reported that Arafat suffered a brain hemorrhage last night, and that "aides said privately that he was dead."
"I don't know anyone other than Arafat who has as much civilian Jewish blood on his hands since the time of the Nazis," Ariel Sharon said of him in 1995.
MK Aryeh Eldad (National Union) said in the Knesset yesterday, "There are not many things that have happened of late about which it is as appropriate to bless and rejoice over as the upcoming death of Yasser Arafat."
Arafat's official biography on the Nobel Prize website glosses over his terrorist past, writing only,
"In 1958 he and his friends founded Al-Fatah, an underground network of secret cells, which in 1959 began to publish a magazine advocating armed struggle against Israel. At the end of 1964 Arafat left Kuwait to become a full-time revolutionary, organizing Fatah raids into Israel from Jordan. It was also in 1964 that the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was established [not by Arafat, who was elected leader only in 1968 Arutz-7 ed.], under the sponsorship of the Arab League, bringing together a number of groups all working to free Palestine for the Palestinians. The Arab states favored a more conciliatory policy than Fatah's... Arafat developed the PLO into a state within the state of Jordan with its own military forces. King Hussein of Jordan, disturbed by its guerrilla attacks on Israel and other violent methods, eventually expelled the PLO from his country. Arafat sought to build a similar organization in Lebanon, but this time was driven out by an Israeli military invasion. He kept the organization alive, however, by moving its headquarters to Tunis..."
The Nobel Prize site does not make clear that this long period was actually one of blood and murder orchestrated by Arafat. The PLO under his leadership conducted plane hijackings, bombings, and other acts of violence against Israel. In fact, the beginning of terror sky-jackings has been attributed to Arafat and the Fatah. Two years ago, after an Israeli plane was almost shot down in Kenya, then-Foreign Minister Binyamin Netanyahu warned, "Sky-jacking terrorism first began against Israeli targets abroad by Arafat and Fatah in the late 1960's, and it very quickly became an international plague."
Though there had been "transportation" skyjackings in which criminals wished to reach Cuba, the first terrorist-extortion hijacking of an airliner apparently occurred in July 1968, when terrorists of the PLO-faction PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine) hijacked an El Al airliner to Algiers. (This was the only successful hijacking of an El Al plane.)
Two years later, PLO-PFLP terrorists hijacked four planes over Europe and flew them to Jordan and Cairo, where they were blown up. The terrorists used the passengers as bargaining chips to win the release of PLO terrorists from European jails.
The PLO under Arafat was also responsible for the massacre of 26 people, mostly children, in the Netiv Meir school in Maalot in May 1974. Another PLO organization perpetrated the Munich Olympics slaughter, killing eleven Israeli athletes in 1972.
In Lebanon, Arafat's forces killed hundreds of thousands of Christians, destroyed Christian villages, and burned churches, as detailed here. See also this article by a Lebanese Christian.
Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest ranking intelligence officer ever to have defected from the former Soviet bloc, wrote [Wall Street Journal, January 12, 2002 ],
"... I am not surprised to see that Yasser Arafat remains the same bloody terrorist I knew so well during my years at the top of Romania's foreign intelligence service. I became directly involved with Arafat in the late 1960s, in the days when he was being financed and manipulated by the KGB... Gen. Sakharovsky asked us in Romanian intelligence to help the KGB bringing Arafat and some of his fedayeen fighters secretly to the Soviet Union via Romania, in order for them to be indoctrinated and trained. During that same year, the Soviets maneuvered to have Arafat named chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, with public help from Egypt's ruler, Gamal Abdel Nasser.
"When I first met Arafat, I was stunned by the ideological similarity between him and his KGB mentor. Arafat's broken record was that American "imperial Zionism" was the "rabid dog of the world," and there was only one way to deal with a rabid dog: "Kill it!" ... Arafat and his KGB handlers were preparing a PLO commando team headed by Arafat's top deputy, Abu Jihad, to take American diplomats hostage in Khartoum, Sudan, and demand the release of Sirhan Sirhan, the Palestinian assassin of Robert Kennedy...
"On March 2, 1973, after President Nixon refused the [above] demand, the PLO commandos executed three of their hostages: American Ambassador Cleo A. Noel Jr., his deputy, George Curtis Moore, and Belgian charge d'affaires Guy Eid. In May 1973, during a private dinner with Ceausescu, Arafat excitedly bragged about his Khartoum operation... James Welsh, a former intelligence analyst for the National Security Agency, has told U.S. journalists that the NSA had secretly intercepted the radio communications between Yasser Arafat and Abu Jihad during the PLO operation against the Saudi embassy in Khartoum, including Arafat's order to kill Ambassador Noel..."
Pacepa also wrote about PLO murders against its own people:
"In January 1978, the PLO representative in London was assassinated at his office. Soon after that, convincing pieces of evidence started to come to light showing that the crime was committed by the infamous terrorist Abu Nidal, who had recently broken with Arafat and built his own organization. "That wasn't a Nidal operation. It was ours," Ali Hassan Salameh, Arafat's liaison officer for Romania, told me. Even Ceausescu's adviser to Arafat, who was well familiar with his craftiness, was taken by surprise. "Why kill your own people?" Col. Constantin Olcescu asked. "We want to mount some spectacular operations against the PLO, making it look as if they had been organized by Palestinian extremist groups that accuse the chairman of becoming too conciliatory and moderate," Salameh explained..."
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
This is a man that was corrupted by power and suported by leberals and world leaders to bring his people to soverenty and he failed miserably.
That is Yasser Arafat, may he burn in hell.
Supported by liberals? Boy that is really unfair. He was supported mostly by the fanatics in the ME. And here he was supported by many administrations that were conservative and liberal.
This liberals are the enemy stuff is crap.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
"...dead baby jews burning in the streets..."
That language just turns me off. I stop reading. Maybe you had something worthwhile to say....
I'll never know.
Come on Gunslinger. Everyone knows it's messed up. You're probably right with whatever you continued to say. But dead babies won't make you any freinds. They won't make your point for you. Dead babies pitched at a fence sitter, will not knock him off.
So knock it off.
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with the media reporting that he is a "cause for freedom" than see his people free from opression and prosperous.
He is a posterboy for islamic fundimentalist because he lives next door to the "enemy". Yet, his people suffer under him and an olive branch has been offered many times yet he accepts it under false pretensese, or he is powerless to keep to the peace terms.
This is a man that was corrupted by power and suported by leberals and world leaders to bring his people to soverenty and he failed miserably.
That is Yasser Arafat, may he burn in hell.
That's the rest, you decide.
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Originally posted by Silat
In Lebanon, Arafat's forces killed hundreds of thousands of Christians....
Gee, you'd have thought a previously unknown massacre of this scale would have drawn more reports than a single link that doesn't work. :rolleyes:
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LOL !
Let me guess... another uneducated Republican with IQ lower than 100 ? :aok
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Anyone who thinks Arafat is the only reason there is no peace in the ME needs a brain transplant.
Israel has done it's share of crap in the last few years.
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Both side may have blood on their hands but Israel HAS tried over and over again for peace only to have it thrown back in their face.
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an obstacle to peace
hopefully his death is a new start for peace
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Both side may have blood on their hands but Israel HAS tried over and over again for peace only to have it thrown back in their face.
Sure they did but at the same time were doing things such as:
Continuing to build illegal colonies which created even more anger from the Palestinians.
Destroyed Pal housing in Jerusalem to build Jewish ones.
Bombed Jenine which had the same target as Palestinian suicide bombing, innocent civillians. Dare I say it: TERRORISM!
Refusing entry to the UN to verify Palestinian claims of massacres.
If they had done nothing wrong, like they claim, the UN would have discredited the Palestinians making Israel's position stronger. Which leads me to believe they did something wrong.
If you want to make peace with someone you usually don't try to piss them off every chance you get. Israel did that many times.
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Pure and simple - A Terrorist!
Questions is - Now that the snakes head has been cut off, what will grow in it's place?
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If we dance in the streets would someone please film it..... Ohh bring plenty of guns and ammo to fire randomly in the air while screaming gleefully.... For the camera of course....
IKON
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Have they given an official cause of death yet?
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Originally posted by AVRO1
Sure they did but at the same time were doing things such as:
Continuing to build illegal colonies which created even more anger from the Palestinians.
Destroyed Pal housing in Jerusalem to build Jewish ones.
Bombed Jenine which had the same target as Palestinian suicide bombing, innocent civillians. Dare I say it: TERRORISM!
Refusing entry to the UN to verify Palestinian claims of massacres.
If they had done nothing wrong, like they claim, the UN would have discredited the Palestinians making Israel's position stronger. Which leads me to believe they did something wrong.
If you want to make peace with someone you usually don't try to piss them off every chance you get. Israel did that many times.
Like I said they both did things but who constantly threw the first punch?
As far as the UN goes if I was Israel I wouldn't let that crooked bunch of butt sniffers in either.
The UN has backed Arafat for many years so why give them the opportunity to come in and spout more hate for Israel?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Have they given an official cause of death yet?
Lack of life?:lol
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Originally posted by GScholz
Liver and kidney failure + brain hemmorage.
This whole scenario reminds me terribly of the Rock Hudson trip to Paris. After all, does anyone really consider Paris to be a great medical center, except for AIDS research? Why not Damascus or Cairo? And no diagnosis? Homo- or bisexuality is the ultimate abomination in Islam. No wonder this reported late in his termination.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Haven't we been over this before? The symptoms of late-stage AIDS is far too visible to hide. The man was suffering from many illnesses and was on heavy medication + the last few years he's been holed up in that shot up HQ of his. How many 75 year olds die of AIDS, especially with a teenage daughter (he was over 60 when she was born)?
So homosexuals do not automatically have families? Oh!
Key sentence: "Many illnesses" "Heavy medication"
Also, 12 doctors did not have a diagnosis of what was wrong with him, only a cause of death.
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Let's hope not (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/04/middle_east_arafat0s_life/html/9.stm)
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Looks like Ripsnort has some sort of gay-complex... Maybe he's not sure about his own sexual tendencies... hmmm almost bold guy, driving a beamer, a real "Stud"...
Yep, this is clear case, step out from the closet, Rip, and pull out your rainbow flag :D
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Rippy, anyone can find a web-site as you have plainly done claiming that Arafaat had AIDS. There's probably just as many asserting that George H Bush was part of a notorious paedophile ring.
It's the Intardnet stupid. :rolleyes:
After all, does anyone really consider Paris to be a great medical center
Yes it is.
Homo- or bisexuality is the ultimate abomination in Islam
No, you'll find that apostasy is.
Your prodigous number of posts give full weight to the proverb "An empty vessel makes the most noise".
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Originally posted by Staga
Looks like Ripsnort has some sort of gay-complex... Maybe he's not sure about his own sexual tendencies... hmmm almost bold guy, driving a beamer, a real "Stud"...
Yep, this is clear case, step out from the closet, Rip, and pull out your rainbow flag :D
Oh that makes sense, because I suspect someone died of AIDS, automatically makes me homophobic. Its a bit telling of your personality, isn't it?
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Originally posted by Momus--
Rippy, anyone can find a web-site as you have plainly done claiming that Arafaat had AIDS. There's probably just as many asserting that George H Bush was part of a notorious paedophile ring.
It's the Intardnet stupid. :rolleyes:
Yes it is.
No, you'll find that apostasy is.
Your prodigous number of posts give full weight to the proverb "An empty vessel makes the most noise".
Yet no one has answered my question put forth last week, why cannot 12 of the "best doctors" (reportedly) give a diagnosis? Then turn around and say "its a patient confidentiality issue" ?
My analysis comes partially from my wife who works in a hospital treating AIDS patients. When she saw the cause of death, she asked "Did he have AIDS?".
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Yes,but why would you assume he died of AIDS?...??
What is your source?..You can't look at someone and say.."AIDS"
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Like I said they both did things but who constantly threw the first punch?
The UN has backed Arafat for many years so why give them the opportunity to come in and spout more hate for Israel?
I remember an attack by Jewish extremists in a mosque that killed 30 people which started a streak of violence.
I also remember Rabin being murdered by a Jewish extremist.
Seems to me some Jews don't want peace anymore the Hamas.
The UN hates Israel? Proof please? Or just anti-UN bias again?
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Yes,but why would you assume he died of AIDS?...??
What is your source?..You can't look at someone and say.."AIDS"
You don't die of AIDS. You die from symtoms of AIDS. First off, Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath said last Monday that all types of cancer had been ruled out.
Initial blood tests performed in the West Bank revealed a low blood platelet count. That is a symtom of AIDS. With leukemia and other forms of cancer ruled out, the list of possible diseases is narrowing.
A low blood platelet count is a sign of a weakened immune system. In addition to cancer, the low count could be attributed to bleeding ulcers, colitis, liver disease, lupus, or HIV. It is believed that ulcers and colitis have already been ruled out.
Arafat has lost a considerable amount of body weight. Hopital d'Instruction des Armees de Percy, southwest of Paris, also has some of France's best HIV/AIDS doctors.
For several years there have been suggestions that Arafat was bisexual.
A deputy chief of the Romanian Foreign intelligence un the Caeucescu regrime who defected to the west in 1978 said in his memoirs that the Romanian Gov't bugged Arafat and had recordings of the Arafat in orgies with his body guards. Combined with the fact that no diagnosis was officially given makes me all the more suspicious.
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The UN has backed Arafat for many years so why give them the opportunity to come in and spout more hate for Israel?
The UN has backed Arafat in what way? I know it is simpler to think of the UN as one body, but in terms of operation it's essentially the Security Council.
As for spouting hate, you mean the resolutions supported by the UK, France etc criticizing Israeli expansion onto the West Bank, vetoed by the US? Your definition of hate is a little awry.
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Ok sorry Rip..That is interesting reading.
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This was arfat.
Arafat the monster
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | November 11, 2004
YASSER ARAFAT died at age 75, lying in bed surrounded by familiar faces. He left this world peacefully, unlike the thousands of victims he sent to early graves.
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In a better world, the PLO chief would have met his end on a gallows, hanged for mass murder much as the Nazi chiefs were hanged at Nuremberg. In a better world, the French president would not have paid a visit to the bedside of such a monster. In a better world, George Bush would not have said, on hearing the first reports that Arafat had died, "God bless his soul."
God bless his soul? What a grotesque idea! Bless the soul of the man who brought modern terrorism to the world? Who sent his agents to slaughter athletes at the Olympics, blow airliners out of the sky, bomb schools and pizzerias, machine-gun passengers in airline terminals? Who lied, cheated, and stole without compunction? Who inculcated the vilest culture of Jew-hatred since the Third Reich? Human beings might stoop to bless a creature so evil -- as indeed Arafat was blessed, with money, deference, even a Nobel Prize -- but God, I am quite sure, will damn him for eternity.
Arafat always inspired flights of nonsense from Western journalists, and his last two weeks were no exception.
Derek Brown wrote in The Guardian that Arafat's "undisputed courage as a guerrilla leader" was exceeded only "by his extraordinary courage" as a peace negotiator. But it is an odd kind of courage that expresses itself in shooting unarmed victims -- or in signing peace accords and then flagrantly violating their terms.
Another commentator, columnist Gwynne Dyer, asked, "So what did Arafat do right?" The answer: He drew worldwide attention to the Palestinian cause, "for the most part by successful acts of terror." In other words, butchering innocent human beings was "right," since it served an ulterior political motive. No doubt that thought brings daily comfort to all those who were forced to bury a child, parent, or spouse because of Arafat's "successful" terrorism.
Some journalists couldn't wait for Arafat's actual death to begin weeping for him. Take the BBC's Barbara Plett, who burst into tears on the day he was airlifted out of the West Bank. "When the helicopter carrying the frail old man rose above his ruined compound," Plett reported from Ramallah, "I started to cry." Normal people don't weep for brutal murderers, but Plett made it clear that her empathy for Arafat -- whom she praised as "a symbol of Palestinian unity, steadfastness, and resistance" -- was heartfelt:
"I remember well when the Israelis re-conquered the West Bank more than two years ago, how they drove their tanks and bulldozers into Mr. Arafat's headquarters, trapping him in a few rooms, and throwing a military curtain around Ramallah. I remember how Palestinians admired his refusal to flee under fire. They told me: `Our leader is sharing our pain, we are all under the same siege.' And so was I." Such is the state of journalism at the BBC, whose reporters do not seem to have any trouble reporting, dry-eyed, on the plight of Arafat's victims. (That is, when they mention them -- which Plett's teary bon voyage to Arafat did not.)
And what about those victims? Why were they scarcely remembered in this Arafat death watch?
How is it possible to reflect on Arafat's most enduring legacy -- the rise of modern terrorism -- without recalling the legions of men, women, and children whose lives he and his followers destroyed? If Osama bin Laden were on his deathbed, would we neglect to mention all those he murdered on 9/11?
It would take an encyclopedia to catalog all of the evil Arafat committed. But that is no excuse for not trying to recall at least some of it.
Perhaps his signal contribution to the practice of political terror was the introduction of warfare against children. On one black date in May 1974, three PLO terrorists slipped from Lebanon into the northern Israeli town of Ma'alot. They murdered two parents and a child whom they found at home, then seized a local school, taking more than 100 boys and girls hostage and threatening to kill them unless a number of imprisoned terrorists were released. When Israeli troops attempted a rescue, the terrorists exploded hand grenades and opened fire on the students. By the time the horror ended, 25 people were dead; 21 of them were children.
Thirty years later, no one speaks of Ma'alot anymore. The dead children have been forgotten. Everyone knows Arafat's name, but who ever recalls the names of his victims?
So let us recall them: Ilana Turgeman. Rachel Aputa. Yocheved Mazoz. Sarah Ben-Shim'on. Yona Sabag. Yafa Cohen. Shoshana Cohen. Michal Sitrok. Malka Amrosy. Aviva Saada. Yocheved Diyi. Yaakov Levi. Yaakov Kabla. Rina Cohen. Ilana Ne'eman. Sarah Madar. Tamar Dahan. Sarah Soper. Lili Morad. David Madar. Yehudit Madar. The 21 dead children of Ma'alot -- 21 of the thousands of who died at Arafat's command.
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Originally posted by tapakeg
How could a murderer and a terrorist (as depicted on this BBS )
win a peace prize.
Becuase Europe is full of dictator loveing P***sies.
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Ok hate may be a little strong but they have in the past been more critical of the things Israel does than Pal.
Personally I think both sides are to blame for the mess they are in and hopefully things will finally straighten out.
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Originally posted by Nash
That language just turns me off. I stop reading. Maybe you had something worthwhile to say....
I'll never know.
Come on Gunslinger. Everyone knows it's messed up. You're probably right with whatever you continued to say. But dead babies won't make you any freinds. They won't make your point for you. Dead babies pitched at a fence sitter, will not knock him off.
So knock it off.
You are right Nash that it isnt necesarily appropriate here BUT the point is true. He wouldnt care if he blew up little kids going to school or relaxing in a cafe or an Isreali tank. However, I did edit it.
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Originally posted by Silat
Supported by liberals? Boy that is really unfair. He was supported mostly by the fanatics in the ME. And here he was supported by many administrations that were conservative and liberal.
This liberals are the enemy stuff is crap.
Sorry silat but I stand by my stance that liberal support for PLO and Hammas as glorious freedom fighters. Maybe not all of them but its simple fact that these are terrorist organizations.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
You are right Nash that it isnt necesarily appropriate here BUT the point is true. He wouldnt care if he blew up little kids going to school or relaxing in a cafe or an Isreali tank. However, I did edit it.
such as this...
Perhaps his .....introduction of warfare against children. On one black date in May 1974, three PLO terrorists slipped from Lebanon into the northern Israeli town of Ma'alot. They murdered two parents and a child whom they found at home, then seized a local school, taking more than 100 boys and girls hostage and threatening to kill them unless a number of imprisoned terrorists were released. When Israeli troops attempted a rescue, the terrorists exploded hand grenades and opened fire on the students. By the time the horror ended, 25 people were dead; 21 of them were children.
Thirty years later, no one speaks of Ma'alot anymore. The dead children have been forgotten. Everyone knows Arafat's name, but who ever recalls the names of his victims?
So let us recall them: Ilana Turgeman. Rachel Aputa. Yocheved Mazoz. Sarah Ben-Shim'on. Yona Sabag. Yafa Cohen. Shoshana Cohen. Michal Sitrok. Malka Amrosy. Aviva Saada. Yocheved Diyi. Yaakov Levi. Yaakov Kabla. Rina Cohen. Ilana Ne'eman. Sarah Madar. Tamar Dahan. Sarah Soper. Lili Morad. David Madar. Yehudit Madar. The 21 dead children of Ma'alot -- 21 of the thousands of who died at Arafat's command.
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JBA; you keep reposting that piece that claims that Arafat started modern terrorism.
Do a google search for "King David Hotel".
In most other respects I agree with your point; but let's give the inventors their credit where due; 'K?
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From: MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6436578/)
By Walid Phares
MSNBC Analyst
Updated: 9:01 a.m. ET Nov. 11, 2004
I remember vividly the bearded man with dark glasses and his Keffiah,the Arab headdress that became equated with him in the West, as he harangued the masses on a West Beirut university campus. It was in the early 1970s and my brother and I were students in Beirut, and Yasser Arafat, the emerging leader of the Palestine Liberation Organization, was the shining star in the Arab world.
Hated by Arab regimes but feared as well, “Abu Ammar” (Arafat’s nom de guerre) had already survived one civil war in Jordan and was jumping into a second one in nearby Lebanon. His words remained inscribed in my memory: “No matter what happens, I will not accept any solution less than the liberation of all of Palestine.”
Whatever one’s opinion of the man, he remained true to those words.
Despite all of the opportunities to finalize a deal over a smaller Palestinian state, Abu Ammar never closed a deal for anything less than all of the land he envisaged to be the future Palestinian state.
But he made another proclamation that day so long ago, one he is not likely to be able to keep — at least for now.
“I will be buried in al Quds (Jerusalem) in al Aqsa Mosque,” he screamed, igniting waves of applause.
Part of the scenery
During the PLO’s years in Lebanon, from 1970-1982, I witnessed many of Arafat’s aides addressing crowds and media. He was on our TV on a daily basis. I even had some of his followers as classmates in my high school years. He became, over four decades at the leadership of the Palestinian cause, as much a part of everyday life in the Arab world as he was notorious outside of it.
• NBC: Tenacious
• NBC: Arab views
• Phares: Failings
• Newsweek's obituary
• Palestinian grief
• World reaction
• Video: Reactions
• Timeline: Slide show
• Possible successors
Basic facts about Arafat’s life, such as the date and place of his birth, are disputed. Arafat has often claimed throughout his career that he was born in Jerusalem, though his birth certificate indicates that his actual place of birth was Cairo, Egypt. He lived with his uncle in Jerusalem after the death of his mother in 1933.
In the late 1950s, Arafat helped found the Fatah movement. Beginning as early as 1965, Fatah launched various terrorist attacks against Israeli targets. In 1969, Arafat was elected chairman of the PLO, an umbrella organization of various Palestinian groups of which Fatah was the largest. Attacks by various PLO groups become a key element of the Palestinian national movement under Arafat’s leadership.
He also kept the PLO front-and-center in the world’s news media. In 1970, the PLO wore out its welcome in Jordan after a rash of terrorist attacks, including several high-profile airliner hijackings. His eviction from Jordan sparked a civil war there, but Arafat simply moved his base of operations to Lebanon. In 1974, Arafat, wearing a gun, parlayed his notoriety and the divisions of the Cold War into an invitation to address the U.N. General Assembly.
The 1980s brought an uprising, or "intifada," in Israeli-occupied territories, as well as an Israeli intervention in Lebanon's roiling civil war. Arafat's PLO aligned with various Lebanese factions to resist the invasion before ultimately being evicted. Yet even in what appeared to be military defeat, Arafat's stature seemed to grow and a steady flow of diplomats and intermediaries made the trip to Tunis, the Tunisian capital and his now seat of exile, to explore the possibility of peace talks.
When talks finally began in the 1990s, Arafat agreed to put violence aside and pursue his aims politically. The 1993 Oslo Accords embodied this promise, and allowed Arafat and the PLO make a triumphant return to the West Bank and Gaza.
But the accords never really take root and mutual recriminations and, inevitably, violence followed. In July 2000, Arafat rejected a final bid to save the peace process in the form of a settlement offer from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Soon afterward, in September of that year, the second intifada was launched. He spent the last three years of his life under de facto Israeli house arrest in Nablus — a powerful symbol of how completely his legitimacy as a negotiator had collapsed.
The terror factor
In many ways, Arafat and his "Fatah" faction of the PLO were products of their times. During the Cold War, revolutionaries, Soviet-backed insurgents and even many western intellectuals regarded terrorism as a legitimate option for oppressed and overmatched peoples. Arafat, throughout his career, clung to this principle. Fatah and other PLO groups began using terror tactics in 1965, and the movement never relinquished its belief in the legitimacy of such attacks.
Some notable terrorist attacks perpetrated by the PLO and its offshoots include:
The bombing of SwissAir flight 330 in mid-flight by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in February 1970. 47 people were killed.
The slaughter of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in September, 1972.
The take over of the Saudi embassy in Sudan in March 1973, executing two American officials (U.S. Ambassador Cleo Noel and Charge d’ Affairs George Curtis Moore) and a Belgian citizen. U.S. intelligence officials say the National Security Agency has recordings of Arafat personally ordering the operation and the murder of the diplomats.
The hijacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro in October 1985, leading to the killing of a wheelchair-bound American, Leon Klinghoffer. Intelligence reports document that the instructions for the attack originated from Arafat’s headquarters in Tunis.
Since the launch of the "second intifada" in September 2000, Arafat-linked groups have been responsible for scores of terrorist attacks against innocent civilians. Documents captured by the Israelis show that Arafat and his cronies personally authorized payments to terrorists.
The "al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade," which has taken credit for many recent attacks, is regarded by counter-terrorism officials as merely the latest version of Fatah terrorists.
Shifting alliances
Arafat’s leadership of the PLO was characterized by shifting alliances and involvement in internal wars, within a number of countries and inside the PLO as well, in addition to his warfare with Israel.
After the 1967 war, the PLO set up bases in Jordan from which it launched attacks against Israel. The actions of the PLO destabilized the country, leading King Hussein to decide that he had to break the power of the PLO or risk losing his kingdom to the Palestinians. He
chose to attack the Palestinians, resulting in a carnage known as "Black September," after which the PLO relocated to Lebanon.
Arafat created a new bases in Lebanon from which he continued to launch attacks against
Israel. While deploying inside the small multiethnic country, Arafat’s forces engaged the Lebanese army and militias. Israel eventually responded in 1982 with an invasion of Lebanon, forcing the PLO, after the intervention of American, French and Italian peacekeeping troops, to relocate once again to Tunis.
From the 1960s to the end of the 1980s, Arafat and the PLO have also routinely sided with the Soviet Union and its allies. Arafat famously backed the Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979 during the Iranian Revolution. In 1990, he backed Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait, one of the only leaders in the world to do so.
Arafat and his agreements
Throughout his time as Palestinian leader, Arafat consistently failed to live up to agreements negotiated with his foes. His aides point to Israeli intransigence, sometimes with solid evidence. Yet Arafat's own record is erratic at best. During his Lebanese era, the PLO signed two security agreements and dozens of cease-fire accords with their opponents. These commitments were constantly breached.
The Oslo Accords of 1993 and subsequent agreements throughout the decade insisted that Arafat stop engaging in terrorism. Numerous studies and reports have demonstrated his unwillingness to meet this commitment, unless more concessions are made. The ailing leader rejected a final, comprehensive peace offer in the summer of 2000, just as a new "intifada" exploded.
Despite previous treaties, the Palestinian legal and educational systems have not been reformed, nor have democratic institutions been properly implemented. Arafat has made only cosmetic changes to the system of dispensing Palestinian Authority funds, despite commitments to international organizations to make the system transparent.
Critics also accuse him of also failing to reform the security apparatus, insisting on retaining almost complete control over the various factions. His supporters reject these accusations as
unfair, but the uncertainty that surrounds his passing suggests that too much power remained in his hands.
Arafat’s history is bloody, long and complex. Too long, many would say, pointing to the havoc he set in motion and the agreements he flouted over the years. Yet he is loved by his sympathizers regardless of his failures. What will intrigue historians for decades is the wide gulf between his many faces, from Nobel Peace laureate and "father of the Palestinians, to the man who ordered the slaughter of thousands of innocents and, in the end, turned away from the chance to make a lasting peace between Israel and his people.
Dr. Walid Phares is an MSNBC analyst, a professor of Middle East studies, and a senior fellow with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies in Washington. Watch for his analysis on MSNBC Live, 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. ET.
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Shall we examine Ariel Sharon's record against Palestinian civilians back in his military days?
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Originally posted by Dowding
Shall we examine Ariel Sharon's record against Palestinian civilians back in his military days?
Was that the question?
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Originally posted by Dowding
Shall we examine Ariel Sharon's record against Palestinian civilians back in his military days?
When he dies, we shall.
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Ah....heck Dowd, why not throw in Kissinger, Arafat could only aspire to his international legacy.
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Originally posted by Seeker
JBA; you keep reposting that piece that claims that Arafat started modern terrorism.
Do a google search for "King David Hotel".
In most other respects I agree with your point; but let's give the inventors their credit where due; 'K?
please google it and read about it.
It was the HQ of the Brittish millitary in the region, therefor a military target. Also, the brits were given a short warning about the place being set up, which they ignored.
The "Irgun" or "etzel" or "National millitary organization" whatever you call them were a semi-terroristic organization, but their targets were millitary and attempts were made to minimize civillian casualties. What more, they represented less than 20% of the population and Ben-Gurion, leader of the "Hagana" representing over 70% of the population, knew how to restrain them when needed - including by force. Unlike Arafat control over the other factions.
Bozon
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Originally posted by Dowding
Shall we examine Ariel Sharon's record against Palestinian civilians back in his military days?
your jokeing right?
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The "Irgun" or "etzel" or "National millitary organization" whatever you call them were a semi-terroristic organization, but their targets were millitary and attempts were made to minimize civillian casualties.
Bozon that's not really true.
Irgun murdered Lord Moyne in Cairo, they murdered soldiers they had kidnapped and held hostage, they blew up the British embassy in Rome, but above all they murdered Arab civilians.
It was Irgun, for example, that threw a bomb into a group of Arab labourers outside the Haifa refinery, which killed 6 and led to the refinery riot that killed 41 Jews.
Irgun murdered hundreds of Arab civilians from the 30s onwards.
What more, they represented less than 20% of the population and Ben-Gurion, leader of the "Hagana" representing over 70% of the population, knew how to restrain them when needed - including by force. Unlike Arafat control over the other factions.
Ben Gurion did not move against the Irgun until after the Israeli state was founded. Indeed, Ben Gurion and the Jewish agency supported and controlled Irgun during the United Resistance, even whilst denouncing them publicly:
"It is a tragedy that matters in Palestine have reached such a pass. The Jewish Agency abhors the use of violence as a weapon in the political struggle, but realizes that its ability to impose restraint has been severely tested by the continued policy (of the British government), which the Jews regard as fatal for them."
That was issued when Ben Gurion was actually ordering Irgun attacks. The parallels with the Palestinian Authority (condemning terrorism whilst at least tacitly supporting it) are striking.
A 1947 British report to the UN on conditions in Palestine:
"The right of any community to use force as a means of gaining its political ends is not admitted in the British Commonwealth. Since the beginning of 1945 the Jews have implicitly claimed this right and have (sic) supported by an organized campaign of lawlessness, murder and sabotage their contention that, whatever other interests might be concerned, nothing should be allowed to stand in the way of a Jewish State and free Jewish immigration into Palestine. It is true that large numbers of Jews do not today attempt to defend the crimes that have been committed in the name of these political aspirations. They recognize the damage caused to their good name by these methods in the court of world opinion. Nevertheless, the Jewish community of Palestine still publicly refuses its help to the Administration in suppressing terrorism, on the ground that the Administration's policy is opposed to Jewish interests. The converse of this attitude is clear, and its result, however much the Jewish leaders themselves may not wish it, has been to give active encouragement to the dissidents and freer scope to their activities
Again, the parallels to Palestinian support for terrorism is striking.
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JEFF JACOBY
Arafat the monster
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | November 11, 2004
YASSER ARAFAT died at age 75, lying in bed surrounded by familiar faces. He left this world peacefully, unlike the thousands of victims he sent to early graves.
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In a better world, the PLO chief would have met his end on a gallows, hanged for mass murder much as the Nazi chiefs were hanged at Nuremberg. In a better world, the French president would not have paid a visit to the bedside of such a monster. In a better world, George Bush would not have said, on hearing the first reports that Arafat had died, "God bless his soul."
God bless his soul? What a grotesque idea! Bless the soul of the man who brought modern terrorism to the world? Who sent his agents to slaughter athletes at the Olympics, blow airliners out of the sky, bomb schools and pizzerias, machine-gun passengers in airline terminals? Who lied, cheated, and stole without compunction? Who inculcated the vilest culture of Jew-hatred since the Third Reich? Human beings might stoop to bless a creature so evil -- as indeed Arafat was blessed, with money, deference, even a Nobel Prize -- but God, I am quite sure, will damn him for eternity.
Arafat always inspired flights of nonsense from Western journalists, and his last two weeks were no exception.
Derek Brown wrote in The Guardian that Arafat's "undisputed courage as a guerrilla leader" was exceeded only "by his extraordinary courage" as a peace negotiator. But it is an odd kind of courage that expresses itself in shooting unarmed victims -- or in signing peace accords and then flagrantly violating their terms.
Another commentator, columnist Gwynne Dyer, asked, "So what did Arafat do right?" The answer: He drew worldwide attention to the Palestinian cause, "for the most part by successful acts of terror." In other words, butchering innocent human beings was "right," since it served an ulterior political motive. No doubt that thought brings daily comfort to all those who were forced to bury a child, parent, or spouse because of Arafat's "successful" terrorism.
Some journalists couldn't wait for Arafat's actual death to begin weeping for him. Take the BBC's Barbara Plett, who burst into tears on the day he was airlifted out of the West Bank. "When the helicopter carrying the frail old man rose above his ruined compound," Plett reported from Ramallah, "I started to cry." Normal people don't weep for brutal murderers, but Plett made it clear that her empathy for Arafat -- whom she praised as "a symbol of Palestinian unity, steadfastness, and resistance" -- was heartfelt:
"I remember well when the Israelis re-conquered the West Bank more than two years ago, how they drove their tanks and bulldozers into Mr. Arafat's headquarters, trapping him in a few rooms, and throwing a military curtain around Ramallah. I remember how Palestinians admired his refusal to flee under fire. They told me: `Our leader is sharing our pain, we are all under the same siege.' And so was I." Such is the state of journalism at the BBC, whose reporters do not seem to have any trouble reporting, dry-eyed, on the plight of Arafat's victims. (That is, when they mention them -- which Plett's teary bon voyage to Arafat did not.)
And what about those victims? Why were they scarcely remembered in this Arafat death watch?
How is it possible to reflect on Arafat's most enduring legacy -- the rise of modern terrorism -- without recalling the legions of men, women, and children whose lives he and his followers destroyed? If Osama bin Laden were on his deathbed, would we neglect to mention all those he murdered on 9/11?
It would take an encyclopedia to catalog all of the evil Arafat committed. But that is no excuse for not trying to recall at least some of it.
Perhaps his signal contribution to the practice of political terror was the introduction of warfare against children. On one black date in May 1974, three PLO terrorists slipped from Lebanon into the northern Israeli town of Ma'alot. They murdered two parents and a child whom they found at home, then seized a local school, taking more than 100 boys and girls hostage and threatening to kill them unless a number of imprisoned terrorists were released. When Israeli troops attempted a rescue, the terrorists exploded hand grenades and opened fire on the students. By the time the horror ended, 25 people were dead; 21 of them were children.
Thirty years later, no one speaks of Ma'alot anymore. The dead children have been forgotten. Everyone knows Arafat's name, but who ever recalls the names of his victims?
So let us recall them: Ilana Turgeman. Rachel Aputa. Yocheved Mazoz. Sarah Ben-Shim'on. Yona Sabag. Yafa Cohen. Shoshana Cohen. Michal Sitrok. Malka Amrosy. Aviva Saada. Yocheved Diyi. Yaakov Levi. Yaakov Kabla. Rina Cohen. Ilana Ne'eman. Sarah Madar. Tamar Dahan. Sarah Soper. Lili Morad. David Madar. Yehudit Madar. The 21 dead children of Ma'alot -- 21 of the thousands of who died at Arafat's command.
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Nashwan, that's why I called them semi-terrorist. The difference is between having defined targets and having random targets. Their choise of targets was very questionable in many cases, but it wasn't normaly random people in the street.
The Hagana, had many actions against the Irgun in the late 40's toward the decleration of the state. The right wing parties still mention the "season" in political debates.
The trouble with palestinian terrorism is that it targets their supporters as well as their enemies at random. I am a target for them, no matter my views and actions on their behaf.
A lot of the Irgun actions were a shame upon the Israelies, and their decendents, the Likud party is still a shame.
Bozon
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your jokeing right?
No I am not jokeing or even joking.
It's documented fact. Sharon has had an illustrious career, both in the military and politics. In 1953 he lead the attack on the village of Qibya in Jordan, which killed 69 civilians, through the blowing up of 50 houses while the civilians were still inside. He masterminded the 1982 invasion of Lebanon and was removed from office a year later by a tribunal which found him indirectly responsible for the massacre of hundreds of Palestinians in an Israeli controlled refugee camp.
But I'm sure he's a nice guy under that bloated, bigoted, old war criminal facade.
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Originally posted by Nash
That language just turns me off. I stop reading. Maybe you had something worthwhile to say....
I agree. It should have read: "Dead Jewish Babies"
-Sik
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Originally posted by tapakeg
Would someone please fill me in on who REALLY Arafat was and what he stood for? I have grown up knowing of him and could identify him, (for god sakes bart simpsons changed clothes more often)
I know he was the leader of the PLO.
He won the Nobel Peace Prize.
NOW....
Who was he?
What exactly was the PLO?
Why do the PLO and Isreal hate each other so often?...Gazaa
How could a murderer and a terrorist (as depicted on this BBS ) win the Peace Prize?
I have been watching the news and realized i did not know anything about him or the region at all.
Small words, maybe even pictures :)
Tapakeg
Why care? He's dead. :aok
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^Maybe tapakeg needs a new paperweight.:D
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"How could a murderer and a terrorist (as depicted on this BBS ) win the Peace Prize?
We all like to know the answer to that one. My guess is it has something to do with Europe's inablity to tell 'right from wrong' or 'good from evil'.
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And the US has that ability in spades of course...
Shah of Iran
Saddam Hussein
Pinochet
All countries act in accordance with political expediency. Right and wrong doesn't come into it most of the time.
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Originally posted by GScholz
No no, Silat just has this uncanny ability to find the most unbiased sources on the net! ... Really! :lol
Let me see if I can find an article on Sharon on a Hamas site. It should be just as fair and unbiased.
By the way GS please feel free to dispute any of the info from the write up. I look forward to reading it.
That would actually be a much better way to present your side.
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Arafat and the PLO in general are the political football of the Middle East: nobody over there gives a rat's bellybutton about the PLO, but they make for good PR if you're a muslim and say you support Arafat. To the Muslim leaders the PLO is just a good source of bodies to strap bombs to. Just another resource, like oil, or trees. Back in the 40s or 50s or maybe it was the 60s, the PLO want to live in Jordan, but Jordan wouldn't have them. Same with other Muslim countries: nobody wanted them in their back yards. Back in those days Yassar was thought of by most western counties in the same light that Bin Laden is thought of today. One of my biggest fears is that Bin Laden will hang on long enough to achieve some modicom political status, like Yassar has. The younger generation then won't realize what a dirt bag Osama really is and will seek to accord him some sort of legitemacy.
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Originally posted by tapakeg
Would someone please fill me in on who REALLY Arafat was and what he stood for?
Tapakeg
You said simple? How about an analogy? Have you read about Menachem Begin? Before Israel was a state, Begin was the leader of the Irgun organization. Under his leadership, the King David hotel in Jersusalem was bombed, killing some 90 odd innocent civilians. Begin was a terrorist. No one denies it, not even Israel.
What are the differences between Begin and Arafat? Well, there are two big differences.
1. Begin and his group were successful in the creation of Israel while Arafat was unsuccessful (or more accurately, Arafat probably didn't want success).
2. The recent revelation that Arafat had over 300 million bucks squirrel away in private accounts says volumes about Arafat.
History teaches us that terrorism is ok if it accomplishes its goals with a minimum body count. Begin was successful, Arafat was not.
curly
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Originally posted by Dowding
And the US has that ability in spades of course...
Shah of Iran - he was better than what came after
Saddam Hussein - we never aided him as much as Europe
Pinochet - I'm ashamed of this, and I hope we learned something from it
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Originally posted by Otto
Originally posted by Dowding
And the US has that ability in spades of course...
Shah of Iran - he was better than what came after
But was he better than Mossadegh?
-Sik
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I suggest you read up on your Iranian history, Otto. The Shah of Iran was a monster, propped up and supported by the US. The US removed his predecessor (Mossadegh). Strangely enough, after he made overtures about nationalising the Iranian oil reserves.
As for Saddam Hussein? Are you seriously trying to tell me supplying him with the precursors for chemical weapons to use on the Iranians, knowing full well he would use them (your own CIA operatives wrote pages of reports describing this) is somehow absolutely right, or relatively righteous compared to European support?
With Saddam Hussein, the whole Western world must bear some guilt. The support of him was effectively a NATO policy.
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To answer the initial post Arafat was and is a symbol (good or bad depending on your sensibility)
His death is a new start but no one know what will start : real peace attempt or intifada III ?
Arafat was a convenient tool for the Palestinians and the Isrealy.
Sadly both nations are missing the equivalent of Konrad Adenauer and Charles de Gaulle
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Dowding,
This thread was about how a man (Yasser Arafat) could receive a Noble Peace prize after ordering the deaths of Olympic athletes. My position was the Nobel Committee couldn’t tell ‘right’ from ‘wrong’. I stand by that.
I’m sorry I don’t have time to explain United States foreign policy since the end of the Second World War.(really) I can only tell you that it was intense, confusing, and some times contradictory. Basically, it had its ‘highs’ and ‘lows’ like anything else governments do.
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You seem to admit US foreign policy had 'highs and lows'; other states have had the same chequered history, but you seem to hold them to a higher standard.
The Noble peace prize is pretty irrelevant in the great scheme of things. The precedent was set right from the beginning with an award to the man who developed TNT.
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Originally posted by Dowding
You seem to admit US foreign policy had 'highs and lows'; other states have had the same chequered history, but you seem to hold them to a higher standard.
The Noble peace prize is pretty irrelevant in the great scheme of things. The precedent was set right from the beginning with an award to the man who developed TNT.
I think the man who invented TNT was the man who founded the awards.
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(http://www.glennbeck.com/picoftheday/11-12-04-pod.jpg)
how does that song go...
ding dong the witch is dead the witch is dead....
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Originally posted by Dowding
You seem to admit US foreign policy had 'highs and lows'; other states have had the same chequered history, but you seem to hold them to a higher standard.
Par fer the course, the generous double standard.
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a terrorist
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Hmm, what was the name of the country that first suggested Prime Minister Mossadegh should be ousted from power and agreed to work for his removal?