Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sparks on November 12, 2004, 10:18:53 PM

Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Sparks on November 12, 2004, 10:18:53 PM: A few weeks ago the USA chose a new president based on a vote split by single figure percentage. You now settle down to four years of governance even if you don't agree with the result. That is the nature of the society.

The same here in UK. The election system may be flawed and governments get elected to power without a popular majority but acceptance is understood and the society carrries on.

Now lets look at Iraq. In January they will hold the first elections. If the power base is split 45% to 55% do you think that the 45% will sit back and accept the outcome and accept however many years of rule under a government they voted against ???
Do you believe that people who follow the religious leaders to march into Najaf wailing and slapping themselves are ready to accept a split vote??

I don't.

I believe this is only the start of the fighting. If the Shia's come to power with even a 10% majority are the Sunnis just going to sit back and say "oh well its only (X) years" ........... I doubt it.

So what do we do when democracy doesn't work ?? stay there indefinitely??
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 10:31:41 PM: Are you saying that the Iraqis are incapable of democratic government?
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 10:31:50 PM: The weird thing is.....

Myself, and a whole TON of people have been digging into the election there. Trying to figure it out...

And I'm not trying to be flip about it, but nobody can see a race happening.

The election a mere coupla months away, and nobody can find out who the candidates are.

Who are they voting for/against? What are their platforms?

I don't wanna slight the thing.... but what is this? Who is running against who? It should be a simple thing to answer, but we haven't found it.

Anyone - please tell me....

Who's running, and what are they about?
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 10:41:51 PM: Iraqi franking does not extend to the North American continent.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 10:43:16 PM: You are a lazy slug, Nash, the first google site is this one:

http://www.electionworld.org/iraq.htm
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 10:48:32 PM: You callin' ME lazy, Mr. google-there-it-is?

What are the candidates' names, and in a sentence, what are their platforms?

Google that one.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 10:53:34 PM: Since you nor I get a vote, nor have a real grasp on the situation for the locals from the english media, I would have to say, you are free to learn Arabic if you are that concerned.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Vudak on November 12, 2004, 10:55:58 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Are you saying that the Iraqis are incapable of democratic government?

I don't know what he was saying, but I'll say that Democracy, IMO, is generally more widely respected and cherished when it's earned, instead of given, or enforced.

Of course there are many brave Iraqis putting their lives on the line beside our soldiers, and many who have already endured a great deal and will endure much more to reach this stage... And for those souls, yes, they have earned it, and I'm sure they will cherish it.

That said, I really don't see how it's going to work out fine and dandy. I mean, we basically went in there, overthrew their dictatorship, and got the ball rolling for them .

Not to say that was the wrong thing to do, hell, anytime you can liberate 20+ million people from that sort of tyranny, it's a good thing, though it's dissappointing how many can't see that... I'm just saying, no, it won't be peachy in January. Let's just hope it isn't chaotic.

But Sparks, "if it doesn't work" doesn't apply to right after the January elections IMO. We'll be there for awhile to make sure they play nice, then we'll leave when things have either settled down, or the new Iraq can handle the problems herself. Probably no time soon, but not indefinately either.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 10:57:43 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Since you nor I get a vote, nor have a real grasp on the situation for the locals from the english media, I would have to say, you are free to learn Arabic if you are that concerned.

Hey - just lookin' for the candidates names...

It's a freaking election afterall....

Who is running?

Should be easy....
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 10:59:57 PM: It is, if you speak Arabic.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Sparks on November 12, 2004, 11:01:20 PM: Lizking

Individual Iraqis may be up to accepting a democray but the country as a whole that is exactly what I'm saying.

We are going to be the middle of a bloody civil war - watch this space.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:03:57 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
It is, if you speak Arabic.

Don't be a smartass...

If you know the names of the people on the ballot a mere month and a half from now, copy and paste 'em.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Vudak on November 12, 2004, 11:04:12 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Sparks

We are going to be the middle of a bloody civil war - watch this space.

Decent chance.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 11:05:05 PM: Sparks, if we pull out it would be a nasty civil war, but we aren't, and elections mean a lot to citizens.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:05:48 PM: WHAT ELECTION???
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 11:06:24 PM: Nash, I don't know them, don't know their platforms or why they are running. It ain't my country, I don't get a vote, so I really don't care.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:07:21 PM: Who is "them"?

Give me a NAME.

Just ONE.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 11:09:19 PM: Sorry, baby, it is their deal not ours. Learn Arabic if you care about the candidates; I posted links to all of their sites.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:11:41 PM: You know what Liz?

Screw you and yer claims of laziness.

Screw you and yer claims to heightened BBS discussion.

You point me at a URL that says nothing.

And you can't answer it for yourself.

But no......... that doesn't keep you from adding your two cents (totalling, nothing).... You have to call me lazy and point me at a google'd URL which doesn't say anything.

Gawdammit...
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:12:41 PM: One name..... give me one name.

Elections in Iraq - yay. Who is on the freaking ballot?
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 11:13:36 PM: It says quite a lot, if you speak Arabic, and still answers your questions in english if you were not too lazy to click around a bit. Moron.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:15:03 PM: Okay, indulge my stupid arse.

Copy/paste his Arabic name here.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:20:04 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Moron.

shreck you....

And tick tock....

We're days away from the so-called election. Who is on the ballot?
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 11:21:01 PM: I'm listening to Hank III, Lovesick Broke and Drifiting, here, and just finished with Camper Van, singing my Revolutionary Sweetheart, but I still can't figure out a reason why I should be your research *****, or why you would care about who is running in the Iraqi election.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:24:13 PM: Lol - nice bail, loser.

Come at me tomorrow night, with lameness... again.

Make it a threepeat.

Tool.

No... yer alright in my books, to tell ya the truth.

But... I'm gonna start holding you accountable. Yer gonna have to start eating this stuff.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Sparks on November 12, 2004, 11:28:49 PM: Liz

Quote
Sparks, if we pull out it would be a nasty civil war, but we aren't, and elections mean a lot to citizens.

The elections mean a lot to citizens because they all think that their man will be in power or that they will at least have equal power. They don't do well with the concept of losing if you hadn't noticed.

They have been sold a Bill of Goods which says that democracy brings power to the people. It doesn't say very clearly that there are LOSERS and if you LOSE you are expected to tow the majority line. Elections mey mean a lot to citizens but not losing means more.

Also if you picked up an AK47 and started shooting after Kerry lost you have a lot to lose - comfortable house, SUV, holiday at the beach, nice furniture. Makes you think twice........

If you lived in a brick hovel with a $20 per month job, sewerage in the streets and no regular water then hey , whats to lose and all to gain !!
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 11:31:38 PM: I am available for hire, but I am not your typical cheap ass, easy, researcher.

If, on the other hand, you just want to argue, I'm your man, free of charge.

The Ghetto Boys just chimed in with Damned it feels good to be a Gangster, and it looks like some Beatles are in the que, so bring it on, Mr. I-don't-need-A-source.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:35:47 PM: If there was ever an important election going down, it is the one in Iraq in January.

You seem to know who is running.

I just want to know who.

No big deal - cough it up.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 11:37:59 PM: I don't know, nor do I care. Nash, it is their deal, they will have elections and vote for who they want.

Bob is singing The Sun is Shining, truly one of the best songs of the 20th century.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Sparks on November 12, 2004, 11:38:26 PM: Nash

Closest I can get but still looking. As you say - not much info out there and reading this article I think it's going to get nasty.

Article on Shia Candidate list (http://www.salaam.co.uk/news/displaynews.php?news_id=228723)
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Yeager on November 12, 2004, 11:38:37 PM: NaSH IS HiMMLER!!!!!! OH JEEBUS
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 11:42:38 PM: Himmler applied himself. Nash is no Himmler.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:44:10 PM: Liz.... I had this whole thing typed out... Some of it was pure poetry - even made me laugh. Most of it was crap though.

I deleted it.

Just quit being a goof.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Yeager on November 12, 2004, 11:45:15 PM: So what do we do when democracy doesn't work ?? stay there indefinitely??
====
I think I can appreciate the "we" part but I have to seriously ask what the UK contribution in Iraq really is?
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Sparks on November 12, 2004, 11:50:35 PM: Hi Yeag

We don't have much of an army left but a lot of it is out there and now we are up round bahgdad we getting killed same as you guys. :(

You'd have to ask the commanders out there exactly the contribution - I have no idea - but we're the only ones with more than a few.

There's also a crap load of civvy contractors out there.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 12, 2004, 11:51:40 PM: Dr John, Right place, wrong time just played, so I will cut you ladies some slack...This time.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 12, 2004, 11:59:34 PM: Heh, Liz...

I know the approach... Wave yer arms in the air like ya just don't care.

But if ya didn't, you wouldn't keep trying to start a ruckus with me.

Now ya whip on yer headphones, and hit the refresh button enough times to shock even the most committed obsessive complulsive.... to say "Bob Marley - I be jammin'!"

It's a bail....

You want "elevated discussion"? Then either git yer watermelon straight the first time or pull yer phones on and not bother. Save us both the grief.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 12:05:05 AM: Taj just kicked in with Let's go Fishing. Nash keeps beating the "I'm too lazy to look it up" drum, and Sparks is working on it.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 12:09:36 AM: Ciao.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 12:11:13 AM: Sleep tight, don't let the Facts bite.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 12:12:50 AM: How could they bite?

They weren't even let out of the cage.

Last chance Liz - give me the facts.

Let me have the facts.

Who is running in the election?

Last call for facts.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 12:15:01 AM: Post number 4, my sleepy friend, Ciao!

Oh yes, I forgot, Echo & the Bunnymen, Baby Rain, with Lyle Lovett on the horizon.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Sparks on November 13, 2004, 12:16:07 AM: Well here's the process

Globalsecurity.org link for Iraq election process (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/itrans.htm)
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 12:17:26 AM: You are a joke tonight. You were a joke last night.

I can only imagine....
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Sparks on November 13, 2004, 12:18:29 AM: Looks like the lists aren't complete yet - but another article that looks like it's going to be messy.

Another article about Shia candidate list (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/election/2004/1102list.htm)
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 12:20:07 AM: No Sir, Nash, you have lost all sense of reasoned debate. You are content to spew your opinions, and expect them to be taken Prima Facie. I do not accept that premise, if you want to be taken seriously.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 12:26:47 AM: Okay - you may be right.

I responded to this thread with:

"The election a mere coupla months away, and nobody can find out who the candidates are."

You responded with:

"You are a lazy slug, Nash,...."

Man.... oh well, but....

Lets put this behind us....

Stop calling me lazy and answer the question. Be an example to me.

Dude - answer it, and lets be friends again.

If you can't, then SHUT YER TRAP...

I swear Liz.... yer heading into dripsnort territory.......

Lay off, or gimme facts.... You know, that whole heightened BBS discusion thing.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 12:30:40 AM: Post number 4, and now the Indigo Girls are singing about Nomads, Indians and Saints.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 12:32:01 AM: Holy - and I used to take you seriously...

Fool me once....
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 12:33:19 AM: Is that like, some kind of, you know, Arkansas saying?
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 12:35:42 AM: Nah, it's me saying I'm done with thinking that what you say matters...

The Indigo Girls?!!

Jesus Christ man....

Why do I always get sucked into this chit?
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 13, 2004, 12:41:06 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Okay, indulge my stupid arse.

Copy/paste his Arabic name here.

Will this do?

ÇÎÊÑäÇ áß
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 12:41:48 AM: I had to cut them off at A Needle too far, and now the Kinks are running through UK Jive.

Don't worry about what I say, just document what you opine, or relegate yourself to the status of a low rent Molly Ivins. She doesn't worry about documentation, and apparently, neither do you.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 12:41:59 AM: Yeah... where'd you get it from.... sincerely....
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 12:43:56 AM: Yer wasted Liz... Nothing wrong with that.

Sucks to be yer drunken pin cushion tho....
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 12:49:41 AM: I won't deny the obvious, but it still doesn't answer the primary question:

Why do you require proof to refute your non-supported assertations?

After listening to your whining, I felt compelled to que up William Shatners latest, Has Been. It is good stuff, and very relevant to our conversation.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 13, 2004, 12:50:17 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Yeah... where'd you get it from.... sincerely....

Got it from here http://www.electionworld.org/iraq.htm#parties (http://www.electionworld.org/iraq.htm#parties)

Has the names of all the political parties in Iraq.
Figure its a pretty safe bet the heads of the most prominent parties will be the ones running.

Why? You planning on finding an Iraqi BBS and bustng their chops about their elections too? LOL

Better watch out. I dont think they have as much of a sence of humor as we do
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 12:52:23 AM: Canada is "blue"; they have nothing to fear...
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 01:02:13 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Why do you require proof to refute your non-supported assertations?

After listening to your whining....

Spare me your insults. Please.

Or...

Give me one candidate's name, and then insult me.

Otherwise, or in the meantime, flip the phones over yer ears and groove to the soulful sounds of the Go-Gos.

You're in a whole different category now....
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 01:06:01 AM: I ain't your research bi-otch, Google it up, Lazy boy. If you have a point to make about the election, spew it out.

You forced me to listen to Polyphonic Spree, damn you!
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: FUNKED1 on November 13, 2004, 01:07:42 AM: I propose that we install a sadistic dictator to keep these people in line.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 01:10:11 AM: Last I heard, the US gummit has several resumes on file for sadistic dictators. None could pass the piss test, though.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 01:11:05 AM: You are so hit and miss with the music thang...

One crap band and then BLAMMO.... a great band.

Just like your personality on this board.

I don't even know you. But... I guess thars hope for all of us.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 01:16:44 AM: I'm getting all weepy, now I have to listen to Michael Franks, and drink warm tea. You Bastard!
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nash on November 13, 2004, 01:19:58 AM: I'm taking that as a dare, muhthashrecker!

Gonna d/l Michael Franks.... whoever he is.

See ya tomorrow. Get yer game face on, cuz I'm gonna be ready for you. Sunuhva*****.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Lizking on November 13, 2004, 01:21:32 AM: My baby cooked my Eggplant is all you need to know.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Chortle on November 13, 2004, 04:38:59 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
So what do we do when democracy doesn't work ?? stay there indefinitely??
====
I think I can appreciate the "we" part but I have to seriously ask what the UK contribution in Iraq really is?
74 dead, 2,500 injured and about £4 billion so far.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nilsen on November 13, 2004, 04:58:08 AM: If someone uses so much time and effort to liberate the people of Iraq then I thought they would also care about what and who takes over after its liberated, or can that wait until gulf war 3 and 4 and so on?.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Naso on November 13, 2004, 05:31:29 AM: Where are Nash and Lizking gone?

:D ;) :rofl

Was enjoing the show.

;)

A new love is born.

:rofl :p
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nilsen on November 13, 2004, 06:01:46 AM: liz and nash sitting in a tree.....
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: beet1e on November 13, 2004, 06:48:20 AM: Good post, Sparks. I skipped the Nash/Liz ping pong match in the middle though.
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Are you saying that the Iraqis are incapable of democratic government?
Incapable is not how I would describe it. We're talking about a society in which people are accustomed to being told what to think and told what to do. Women have almost no rights at all. I don't see how they will come to terms with the electoral process and being asked what they think would be the best choice for their country instead of having that decided for them by a tyrant.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Nilsen on November 13, 2004, 09:20:15 AM: Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Women have almost no rights at all.

Anyone who has had any contact with females knows why... I don't see the problem, they got it right!
I have two of them in my house and their average age is only half what I am, but they have all the power. As a minority I should get some sort of extra vote like the electoral thingie those yanks have.

love
Frustrated dad.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: CptTrips on November 13, 2004, 03:58:31 PM: Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
I propose that we install a sadistic dictator to keep these people in line.

Rumsfeld already has a job. :cool:
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: john9001 on November 13, 2004, 08:06:01 PM: ELECTIONS WILL NEVER WORK IN AFGANISTAN.......?. opps sorry

ELECTIONS WILL NEVER WORK IN IRAQ.

NO OIL FOR VOTES..
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: DieAz on November 13, 2004, 11:08:55 PM: this election is for a general assembly. there are alot of candidates.

read this page for more info on what it is about.

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=197311 (http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=197311)

from the link
Quote
they are expected to produce an interim National Assembly that will be responsible for drafting a constitution and setting a date for full elections in 2006.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: FUNKED1 on November 14, 2004, 03:30:27 AM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Rumsfeld already has a job. :cool:

I'm picturing Rumsfeld in a Patton costume wearing a huge mustache.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: WhiteHawk on November 14, 2004, 07:50:28 AM: The 55% 45% majority thing is good for now. But by the time the elections role around, it will be about 75% to 25% due to the minority being, uhmm, liquidated, systematically, by the, err, uhmmm, liberators. It is not ethnic cleansing, it is democracy at its finest.
Title: So it'll all be ok after January eh ??
Post by: Ripsnort on November 14, 2004, 08:05:13 AM: Quote
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
The 55% 45% majority thing is good for now. But by the time the elections role around, it will be about 75% to 25% due to the minority being, uhmm, liquidated, systematically, by the, err, uhmmm, liberators. It is not ethnic cleansing, it is democracy at its finest.

You did see the Death Houses they uncovered didn't you? predominently syrian, jordanian, iranian, with a smidge of local, easily-brainwashed ****te's thrown in.