Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LazerTED on November 13, 2004, 07:08:38 PM

Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: LazerTED on November 13, 2004, 07:08:38 PM
Incase many of you haven't noticed, about the only GV action that really goes on in AH is spawn camping.

Why not make the place each person spawns different from the previous persons spawn point.  I think it would be a lot harder to cover a spawn point if GV's are popping up in more random spots, rather than no more than 10 feet from eachother.


Just an idea, maybe its not possible, maybe nobody cares. :D
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: nopoop on November 13, 2004, 07:24:50 PM
For a totally different idea, they could fly planes instead ???  

Nah, continue..
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Stegahorse on November 13, 2004, 07:32:25 PM
Isn't spawn camping and vulching a "gaming the game " issue?
But, if they are stupid enough to continue to spawn and get killed, I'm greedy enough to let them!
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: LazerTED on November 13, 2004, 07:37:53 PM
Bah... figured this wouldn't go anywhere. ;)
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 13, 2004, 07:57:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by nopoop
For a totally different idea, they could fly planes instead ???  

Nah, continue..


I fly planes the vast majority of the time but occasionally I take a break and like to do some GV stuff.

While I sometimes do it myself.
I do think something should be done about it. Gvs spawn entirely too close to one another and really need to be dispersed more
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Booky on November 13, 2004, 11:45:10 PM
I think the ability to camp a spawn should still exists but it should be harder for a single person to do it.

Maybe increase the spawn area enough to where the person spawning has some tiem to turn their gun and at least get a shooting chance.

As it is now, you can not turn your gun more than 15 degrees before getting waxed, which is bad IMHO.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Greebo on November 14, 2004, 06:08:26 AM
Spawn camping, milk running, vulching etc. devalue the game IMO. Anything that allows people to rack up large scores, perks or kill counts with little or no effort or skill, destroys the worth of scores, perks or those kill messages you get when landing.

Myself and others have suggested multiple or varying GV spawn locations before. Most of the replies to these threads go along the lines of "anyone dumb enough to spawn there deserves it" or "what about vulching, that's just as bad".

This misses the point, vulchers can be seen from the tower. Also there is no obvious way of preventing it, the way the game is currently structured around field capture. Apart from educating the vulchees of course.

Beyond that though, some players (myself included) have no inclination to try GVs simply because there is no challenge in sitting at a spawn point blasting anything that appears in front of you. Even if you don't spawn camp, any kills you land will be devalued since everyone will assume you did. Nor is camping realistic, this game is supposed to have some bearing on what happened in WW2 isn't it?

Please do something about it HTC. Make the spawn locations random or multiple.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: eagl on November 14, 2004, 07:27:57 AM
How about making spawning vehicles invisible but unable to shoot for 30 seconds after launching?  That way they have 30 seconds to get moving but can't use that time to kill other players.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 14, 2004, 07:31:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
How about making spawning vehicles invisible but unable to shoot for 30 seconds after launching?  That way they have 30 seconds to get moving but can't use that time to kill other players.


That would just make it easier for the spawh campers to kill anyone who spawns.. :)
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Furball on November 14, 2004, 07:41:46 AM
Make spawn points actual Forward bases protected by AI and Mannable AT guns.  Forward bases should be protected by walls to offer some protection from campers.

Also makes it much more realistic than ground vehicles just magically appearing in the middle of nowhere.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: mechanic on November 14, 2004, 09:38:48 AM
it took me 20 deaths to kill a spawn camping tiger today. but it was worth it :D

i then came back in heavy hog and got the other tiger.

one escpaed my grasp with only a turret out :(

spawn campers are fun, like anyone really cares about GV kills.

just keep upping, give them pleasurem gives you pleasure when you finally get them.

on the other hand you could follow nopoop's advice.....

batfink
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Urchin on November 14, 2004, 09:39:52 AM
I like that idea... you could select the "manned ack" thingie at the V-base, then select the forward bases manned ack the way you go into shore batteries.  Dunno if the game is set up to allow this or not though.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 14, 2004, 10:14:19 AM
Orr have spawn areas on hilltops too steep to climb from any side yet not so steep you cant roll down them.
 that would give spawners an immediate  terrain advantage against nearby camping.

Then the only way to camp an area would be to go to a hill high enough to see the spawn area which ideally would be far enough away to make the shots harder.

Another idea to add to this is have GVs also spawn from an indestructable  building with the openings facing away from any hills thus at least  giving the GVs a chance to at least start their engines and get moving.

Or perhaps instead of buildings surround the top of the hill  with trees making newly spawned GVs harder to spot and hit untill they leave the spawn area.

This wouldnt stop camping entirely but it would at least give spawners at least a small fighting chance
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Mini D on November 14, 2004, 10:25:57 AM
Spawn camping and vulching are a direct result of the "defense only when it's too late" philosophy in the MA.  People wait for flashing lights and sirens before doing anything.  It's actually the biggest fault in the game... and it has nothing to do with the game itself.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: whels on November 14, 2004, 10:44:39 AM
welp if u wana stop spawn camping, then ur might as well stop vulching, they are the same.


so i guess that means, indesturctable , highly accurate,
20 30 and 40 mm ack at airfields.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 14, 2004, 10:57:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by whels
welp if u wana stop spawn camping, then ur might as well stop vulching, they are the same.


so i guess that means, indesturctable , highly accurate,
20 30 and 40 mm ack at airfields.


no.
 they are two different animals.

Vulching is the result of a feild already having been supressed by either lack of defence till its too late or superiour numbers.

Spawn campers often just go to the spawn area even if no GVs are inbound and the base hasnt been under attack.

You can defend against vulchers by use of GVs, Feild guns or bringing AC in from another base. ORRRR if your lucky enough to get airborn.

There is no real defence against multiple spawn campers if they position themselves well.
Actually the only way to defeat the camp is to keep upping in numbers and hope you can locate and fire and hit and at least disable the enemy tanks before they can hit you.

which is hard to do because a smart camper positions himself on the 6 of the Gvs camping which usually allows for at least 2 shots on the spawning GV before he can swing his turret around to get a single shot off
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 14, 2004, 11:00:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Spawn camping and vulching are a direct result of the "defense only when it's too late" philosophy in the MA.  People wait for flashing lights and sirens before doing anything.  It's actually the biggest fault in the game... and it has nothing to do with the game itself.


I will agree on the point that people wait entirely too long to decide to defend a base. more times then not an attack is telegraphed by radar long before the attack (by air) ever takes place

When its GVs the base starts flashing well in advance of the Gvs getting close enough to do any real damage.
But often people will still wait till shells are falling on the town or feild before doing anything
Title: agree
Post by: wrongwayric on November 14, 2004, 11:58:47 AM
I agree lazer, spawn should cover a wider area. I've been saying this for over a year now. You could still camp, but not with just one gv in a last ditch effort to save your city/field from enemy gv's. It would also give a more realistic feel to the actual attack by a squad of gv's as they would need to set a rally point or attack formation to actually hit the city/field more effectively. Would also add more 1v1 gv battles instead of guys swarming a tiger with 8 panzers or vice versa.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: LazerTED on November 14, 2004, 12:09:45 PM
Whels vulching and spawn camping are more different than they are alike.

How often do you see a spawn camper from a tower, like you do when there is a vulch?
Getting vulched is something you can avoid, because it can be seen from the tower.  Spawn camping is something that is sprung upon you before you know its even happening.

Im just asking for spawns to be spread apart, not for a base to be protected by some uber acks.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: EN4CER on November 14, 2004, 05:26:45 PM
From a Tactical Point of View - Spawn Camping is simply choking off the enemy's vehicle attack route or pipe line - No different than guarding a Bridge in WWII.  Some spawn points get camped because the Gvs defending the base have pushed the enemy back to the Spawn Point and set up camp to so call "Cork the Bottle." I admit other camps originate out of the "Fishing Hole" concept.  Guys set up to cast their lines and see what they can catch.  The good squads always bust a camp with a well timed and coordinated effort of carpet bombing and mass spawn.  Busting a camp is just as much fun as camping itself.  :D  Nothing worse when your camping and you see several formations of Lancs headed in your general direction.  Definitely one of those "Oh Chit" kodak moments.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: whels on November 14, 2004, 05:34:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by LazerTED
Whels vulching and spawn camping are more different than they are alike.

How often do you see a spawn camper from a tower, like you do when there is a vulch?
Getting vulched is something you can avoid, because it can be seen from the tower.  Spawn camping is something that is sprung upon you before you know its even happening.

Im just asking for spawns to be spread apart, not for a base to be protected by some uber acks.




how often do GVer spawn and die to a camper and STILL respawn several times?  we had 1 guy give  out 200 kills to
our group of campers 1 day. kinda like the guy in the tower, sees
hordes of enemy planes flying over base and keeps trying to up.



cant be a spawn camp without spawners,  cant be a vulch
without uppers.  they are the same.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Mayhem on November 14, 2004, 06:28:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Stegahorse
Isn't spawn camping and vulching a "gaming the game " issue?
But, if they are stupid enough to continue to spawn and get killed, I'm greedy enough to let them!


I don't think spawn camping has a historicall counterpart but it is perty much vulching for vehicles and vulching is historicall. best place to nail an nmy was parked, on the runway, taking off, or landing. so I don't think it's really gaming the game. its a viable histoically accurate tactic.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: LtPillur on November 14, 2004, 06:37:25 PM
Fishing in a stocked trout pond is a sure thing just like spawn camping. But were is the fun in that? Maybe its more fun to try to take off when a base is capped as opposed to sitting and waiting for the inevitable. Spawn camping is silly. And a don't think vehicles spawned in real life so historical accuracy is a bit of a non-sense term here.
Peace
Pillur
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: rod367th on November 14, 2004, 11:01:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Orr have spawn areas on hilltops too steep to climb from any side yet not so steep you cant roll down them.
 that would give spawners an immediate  terrain advantage against nearby camping.

Then the only way to camp an area would be to go to a hill high enough to see the spawn area which ideally would be far enough away to make the shots harder.

Another idea to add to this is have GVs also spawn from an indestructable  building with the openings facing away from any hills thus at least  giving the GVs a chance to at least start their engines and get moving.

Or perhaps instead of buildings surround the top of the hill  with trees making newly spawned GVs harder to spot and hit untill they leave the spawn area.



LOL  this building thing would just let everyone know exactly where spawn is. I know of atleast 1 squad who will drive to VH base not take it nut park in back hanger just to camp. Seen this squad do same thing day after day. We should make VH bases spawn from any hanger or building on base. @ nd spawns should 1000 yds apart  that way they can't get supplies to camp all 3 spawns...........but then hell i like to kill campers and camp myself once in a while so not really worried about it..........

This wouldnt stop camping entirely but it would at least give spawners at least a small fighting chance
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Mayhem on November 14, 2004, 11:16:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by LtPillur
Fishing in a stocked trout pond is a sure thing just like spawn camping. But were is the fun in that? Maybe its more fun to try to take off when a base is capped as opposed to sitting and waiting for the inevitable. Spawn camping is silly. And a don't think vehicles spawned in real life so historical accuracy is a bit of a non-sense term here.
Peace
Pillur


vehicles aren't a very important part of this game any way. but your right lets take away the spawn points all together  make them drive out of the hanger then it will be vulching. and that would be historically accurate :D
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 14, 2004, 11:29:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rod367th
LOL this building thing would just let everyone know exactly where spawn is. I know of atleast 1 squad who will drive to VH base not take it nut park in back hanger just to camp. Seen this squad do same thing day after day. We should make VH bases spawn from any hanger or building on base. @ nd spawns should 1000 yds apart that way they can't get supplies to camp all 3 spawns...........but then hell i like to kill campers and camp myself once in a while so not really worried about it..........  



LMAO everyone that spends any time in GVs KNOWS where the spawn areas are now. so whats the difference
That idea was supposed to be in combination of the spawn area being ontop of an unclimbable hill.

Kinda hard to sit inside of a hangar when you cant climb the hill to get to it

the indestructable building would allow GVs to start their engines and get moving before someone on some hill in the distance is able to zero in and fire on them
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Dralex on November 15, 2004, 07:08:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by whels
cant be a spawn camp without spawners,  cant be a vulch
without uppers.  they are the same.


Can you imagine situation, when not only 1 person spawn all the time?

I see spawn campers mostly in situation, when different people spawn GV's not knowing about campers in pampers.

So campers got kills by killing different persons.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: whels on November 15, 2004, 11:08:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dralex
Can you imagine situation, when not only 1 person spawn all the time?

I see spawn campers mostly in situation, when different people spawn GV's not knowing about campers in pampers.

So campers got kills by killing different persons.



nope id say the majority of time spawn camper kills is on the same spawner over n over.


maybe, have the spawn point line blink like the town does, when
a enemy GV is within 2k of spawn area?
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Kev367th on November 15, 2004, 11:12:39 AM
Seem to remember an idea -

As the fuel a vbases is generally useless why not have it so each spawn line has 3 different endpoint representing 50/75/100 fuel.

Make the 75 and 100 spawns go deeper into enemy territory than the current ones. At least it gives a reason to hit fuel at a vbase.
Of course this would mean somehow making the 75% fuel limit not apply to vbases.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: humble on November 15, 2004, 11:23:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Make spawn points actual Forward bases protected by AI and Mannable AT guns.  Forward bases should be protected by walls to offer some protection from campers.

Also makes it much more realistic than ground vehicles just magically appearing in the middle of nowhere.


Furball hit the nail on the head...AT Guns. Put 6 of em around each spawn. Now you can "pop in" in an AT gun...obviously if they're down you know someone's been around recently....

Personally I think the deployable AT gun is the biggest missing piece of the "GV set"...the biggest tank killer wasnt the tank...it as the AT gun.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Kev367th on November 15, 2004, 11:25:50 AM
AT guns or PIATs could be intersting.
Imagine if we were able to have a guy with a PIAT. You jump into the back of an M3, get driven to spawn and disembark.
Other side has to deploy troops to kill the PIAT guys, whole new gameplay is opened up.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: AKDogg on November 15, 2004, 11:25:57 AM
Personally, I think they should have fuel go down to 25% for everything.  Including GV's use fuel.  Have where only engine on can let U use the gun.  But when U run out of fuel U all done.  Unless of course U get gv supplies.  GV's in WWII used fuel to operate, why not here?.  They already have fuel gauges.  Lets put them to use.

Dogg
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Midnight on November 15, 2004, 11:37:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by whels
cant be a spawn camp without spawners,  cant be a vulch
without uppers.  they are the same.


They are different because an aircraft has at least 3 spawn location options (Hanger, Runway 1, Runway 2) On large fields, even more spawn options.

A GV going to an advance spawn point has only one option.. every time being placed within a few yards of the last spawn location... this makes GV camping too easy.

A GV spawn point should give a more randomized placement of at least 1/2 mile range. This would prevent 1 or 2 campers from being able to camp.. just like 1 or 2 aircraft vultchers can't keep a vultch going on an airfield.

Here's an idea - After selecting a spawn point for a GV, a second option comes up with a compass. The player then clicks on a compass direction and is spawned 1/2 mile from the center of the spawn point (shown on the map) or clicks on the center of the compass to be spawned at the center.

Now defending GVs wouldn't be able to spawn camp, so they would have to find a tactically defensable position where the attacking GVs would have to drive to. This might make actual battles, rather than looser skilless shooting of defensless spawners.
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: LtPillur on November 15, 2004, 12:13:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mayhem
vehicles aren't a very important part of this game any way. but your right lets take away the spawn points all together  make them drive out of the hanger then it will be vulching. and that would be historically accurate :D


:lol
Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: Gloves on November 15, 2004, 12:30:26 PM
How about this idea.  If you get nailed without starting your engine, then if you respawn to the same spot, you are facing the direction of the shot that killed you.  That way, you at least have a chance to defend yourself.

Glove