Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on November 14, 2004, 06:50:35 PM
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ah2 strat system is like playing football with no endzones. there is nothing that really needs defending outside of running out of total number of bases.
I want the ability in the new terrain editor to create the origional strat factory system so I can reinstall it in ah2 maps I create:
single unresuppliable strategic factories (1 per strat per country)
unresuppliable HQ
single unresuppliable city per country
no zone bases
all country fields resupplied by these factories no matter the distance
resupply working on airfields and v fields only
the origional system (256x256 map): all country fields (including captured fields)supplied by a single set of strategic factories and a city and 1 hq. none resuppliable. all strat targets at all fields came up in 30 minutes with undamaged factories even on captured fields.
because of the simplicty of it players understood how it worked.
because all strat targets at all fields resupplied in 30 minutes unless strat factories were hit it made sense to players strategically to hit the factories.
1 strat target per item per country made sense and made resets happen because the country that gained a territorial advantage actually had a real advantage by movign their factories from the front. The russians and americans did this and it was a serious advantage having factories out of bomber range.
Hq could not be supplied. this was the lynchpin behind what made strategic bombing worthwhile. because knocking down the city and then the HQ for an hour made the 2 hour mission deep into enemy territory worthwhile. because the defending side knew if it lost hq they couldnt get it back in 5 minutes they thought ahead and watched for incoming threats intercepting high flying buffs with prop driven aircraft. it was somthing vital to defend and vital to destroy because it gave one side an advantage.
fast forward to the current strategic system:
zone bases and unconnected captured fields on 256 maps
it rendered the strat system into a novelty. somthign to hit but it didnt matter if you did. it was easier to capture the zone base than to hit the factory and in small maps there was no reason whatsoever to hit strat factories except to see them blow up.
resupply delt the biggest blow to strategic bombing. primarily because a 1 hour hq mission with escort and large formation of bombers would only destroy an hq for 5 minutes even if the city was at 0%
with me163s swarming all over a vast area around hq the defender has ample time for a coherent defense.
heres the lynchpin that proves the point:
all strat factories on mindanao are disconnected on the northeast and south countries and no one has noticed. only the west country has a workign strat factory system. it proves it right there. its broke and to confusing and un needed for anyone to notice. except someone who notices when the b24 windshield is not proportioned right and the pitot tubes on the top of the nose are missing.
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Nice Idea. I dont think it would be applied. How long would they be down, as long as the map was up ? If so its alittle unfair, The late night or early morning When not many are on Buff run,for it to be down all day. I think something in the middle would be nice.
Crims
479th Raiders
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Originally posted by Citabria
all strat factories on mindanao are disconnected on the northeast and south countries and no one has noticed. only the west country has a workign strat factory system. it proves it right there. its broke and to confusing and un needed for anyone to notice. except someone who notices when the b24 windshield is not proportioned right and the pitot tubes on the top of the nose are missing.
That is pretty damning.
I've long held that the current strat was pointless becuase it had no noticable effect and what you said here just goes to prove it.
I also agree with you that the very simple original AH v1.00 strat worked much better than what we have now.
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the fuel only killable to 75% is a direct bandaid to the unresupplied captured fields.
when all fields were all being resupplied within 30 minutes killing the fuel was a temporary problem at a base. but because of this system the fuel refinery and even killing fuel bunkers at a field is not somthing worth bothering to do since the amount of damge that must be done does not disable the enemy very much.
its a domino effect.
they had the strat system right for gameplay the first time.
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Is that true about the strat on mindano..
lol thats hillarios.
I dont doubt it though. It really is useless.
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As far as I'm concerned they can leave the fuel model where it is. Too easy to kill the fuel at a base and completely shut it down, especially with a burn multiplier of 2. The pork and auger 38s and the dive bombing lancs have resorted to hitting the more hardened fighter hangars =)
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A very valid point................ bombers are being taken out of any role bar low level air field attrition.
Strat as a functioning reward based target is not seen as fun to bombers and as cit points out they care so little for it they do not see when its broke
For me HTC could move on..............
Land grab should be land grab not airfield pork and grab...........
If bombers are required to clear numerous towns that represent the land grab.............and go deep into enemy territory to score high points and penalise an enemies logistics.......... I am all for it.
lets get GV's fighting in towns and cities
lets get strat deciding how much fuel/troops/ facilities have..........
bring back depots!!!!!!!!! (loved the concept of depots........these should be our towns scatterred all over the map as little dots that must be captured to grab land)
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agree Fester...
the hQ thing is no fun at all..who will bom it now..
BUt you coudl say..bring a force large enuff to kill surounding barracks?
Would love to Kill LGhey 7s factories; )
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HT had a nice strat system going. Everything was connected, everything had an impact on something. When that changed and why is beyond me.
The fact that you can't take a base down beyond 75% fuel is one thing Id like to see go. As fester said, its sort of like a bandaid. Its also pretty gamey. Thats a word I dont use often but I think it fits here better than any other right now. There is no way that a base should be able to maintain 3/4ths of its fuel capacity. I can see 25%, I can even understand why there would be a wall hit once 25% was reached. This is coming from someone who bascily only every flys fighters.
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A very valid point indeed. We do need an attrition-bases strat system - no matter how one puts it, that is the only way the strats will mean anything.
Strats must effect a country on a wide-scale, with very huge impact. Seeing enemy planes targetting your fuel refinery or factory should be something much more terrible and fearful than a band of planes knocking down town buildings and running a goon in.
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The 75% limit on fuel porking is needed because the point in this game is combat not porking
25% with a 2.0 fuel burn multiplier is a gaming no go.
Lastly using percentage and not amount of fuel introduce an artificial discrimination among plane and promote timid behaviours.
There was an intense discution about the fuel that lead to the 75% limit here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117803&)
I proposed another system not using percent here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118231)
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Originally posted by Citabria
all strat factories on mindanao are disconnected on the northeast and south countries and no one has noticed. only the west country has a workign strat factory system. it proves it right there. its broke and to confusing and un needed for anyone to notice
I noticed that.
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I also noticed that strat seemed to be out on two Mindanao countries, but when I mentioned it on country channel nobody responded. So, I thought, "Who cares? Just do what you want and have fun." And I did.
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I strongly agree with Fester that the strategic system should be less convoluted and stay down longer with no resupply.
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One thing, though...on large maps it might be better to have two of every strategic target.
MRPLUTO
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Strat definitely needs some 'drawing board' time. What I would like:
1 industrial region per country.
HQ... increase amount of ord to destroy HQ (current total was based on pre-formation days iir), make it unresupplyable AND have it effect BAR DAR ONLY. (perfect comprimise if i must say so myself :) )
Lower base fuel min to 50%.
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Strat....what's that? I missed the early years, but for the last two or so I don't recall noticing strat ever having an influence on me (aside from HQ radar).
If you incorporate a strong strat element it will provide greater variety and, IMO, even impact the basic horde deal itself. A certain percentage of players will, at all times, be looking to bomb, escort and intercept. If the strat is important they will find some action instead of flying over the action going on down at 2k. It will give dedicated bomber guys a purpose in life, dedicated interceptor guys a purpose (and some chance of actual action) and even give those p-51 or nothing guys a historical option beyond porking a field.
I wonder, though, if HTC even sees the current MA game play as a problem. And, I imagine TOD is the new baby now that will be getting most of the serious infrastructure/programming attention. I suppose it could be argued that TOD will fill these needs, but I don't necessarily see too much real crossover between the typical MA player and future TOD player (with its strong role-playing format). I'll probably do both, but MA with real strat is, at least for me, more important than TOD.
Charon
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Originally posted by Citabria
heres the lynchpin that proves the point:
all strat factories on mindanao are disconnected on the northeast and south countries and no one has noticed. only the west country has a workign strat factory system. it proves it right there. its broke and to confusing and un needed for anyone to notice. except someone who notices when the b24 windshield is not proportioned right and the pitot tubes on the top of the nose are missing.
Some noticed and then spent time on west country strat only to have some "expert" berate them on country channel for score potato wasting time on hitting the capital city and then training strat. (He wanted me to hit "stuff on fields - that "anything you kill at a strat will be back up before you land" etc etc etc.)
It is very very true alot of people, even thoise that have played AH for years, simply have no understanding of the strat system whatsoever. I blame it on the help section - it is written in a very confusing manner.
However now that we have a reasonable bombsight again, I have started hitting strats again for the first time in a very very long time. I see others doing it too. Give it time.
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one thing that I noticed is that issues come up again and again but if it's not HT's idea its pretty much pointless to discuss. There have been many great threads on how to improve gameplay but few, if any of them has seen any attention from those that can do something about it.
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You notice totaly incorectly rabidrabbit.
I have Implented more play sugestion than I can begin to rember, Infact our current strat system is a player sugestion.
The latest player sugestion I can think of, are
1. The current ENY system, along with modifications to it there after.
2. The current offline configurations for the CM's.
3. The current change to how the bomb sight works.
4. The current addition of armor to ships and other targets.
Im sure there are many more in the latest versions.
What I will not do is Implent a player suggestion that I belive will not work. That is sorta a well DUHHHHH type item. Because it is my company that any changes effects, and there for it is my responciblity to do exactly that.
HiTech
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"I have implented more player suggetion than I can begin to remember..."
I'll vouch for that! While I still wish for things like non auto retracting flaps I can definitely say that HTC has introduced many, many features that were brought up by thier customers over the past several years.
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How about limiting the number of airplanes you can up per hanger at a field?
If 90 planes (just an example) can be 'upped' at a small base with all 3 fighter hangers up, how about reducing the number by 1/3 for each fighter hanger destroyed, until 0 when all three hangers are down?
This would be more realistic than the current system, which imposes no restrictions until all hangers are destroyed.
Also, how about adding aircraft factories to the strat? We have factories for everything else (AAA, radar, armament, etc), but no aircraft plants. Taking down aircraft factories would factor into how quickly hangers are restored.
Just my $.02.
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What I will not do is Implent a player suggestion that I belive will not work. That is sorta a well DUHHHHH type item. Because it is my company that any changes effects, and there for it is my responciblity to do exactly that.
NP there. I suppose the questions I would ask as a customer (and that might answer a few apparent issue that seem to be constants on the BBS at least) are:
1. Do you feel there are any significant issues that need to be addressed with the current MA gameplay?
2. Are you satisifed with the current strat model in AH (beyond a minor adjustment here or there)?
Charon
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Thanks for the response HT.
I'm not suggesting that you implement every change that is requested since you would be spending all of your time switching things back and forth ad nauseum.
What I am saying, and it's not a blanket statment, is that a lot of decent ideas are raised without response of any sort. What I would encourage you to consider is to partake in conversations that have some merit rather than let them linger. This would decrease much of the frustrations that many of your clients seem to feel. This is along the same lines as posting up dev updates once in a while which you have seen to be well recieved by the community.
Regards,
RR
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"How about limiting the number of airplanes you can up per hanger at a field? "
Would be ok perhaps if everyone online was mature and played the game like they were in the air corps and the permanent loss of a plane (and possibly thier life) were a real possibility.
In a "game " environment such as the MA this would not work due to the lesser skilled players (noobs) going thru aircraft left and right as well as for the "negative attention deficit types" who would get thier jollies by pissing the other players off by deliberately wasting planes.
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I’ve done a lot of off-line testing on the strat system. If it isn’t broken and without referring to my notes…
a) If you kill a factory 100% and the strat at a field at the same time, then the field stuff stays dead for 3 hours and comes back up with the factory.
b) If you kill the strat at a second field 2-1/4 hours after “a” above then the field strat will be back up in 3/4 hour along with the factory.
c) If you kill 100% of the City at the same time you kill “a” above, it will make no difference. The City pops up after 3 hours, then instantly the Factory and the field strat.
d) If you kill less then 100% of the factory it’s far less productive.
e) If you kill the City 100% at the same time you kill the HQ, it adds an hour to the down time.
f) IIRC, if you kill the City 100%, one hour after you kill a factory or HQ, you add one hour to the down time of the factory and 2 hours to the downtime of the HQ, they stop being resupplied until the City comes back up.
I haven’t tested the player resupply part of the system and I can’t find any partial resupply when the factories are 100% dead. Less then 100%…?
Yeah, I think it could be different and I don’t think the City should affect the HQ the same as the factories.
Now then.
Sending 2 or 3 dozen bomber to kill a single factory doesn’t make any sense to me. I would rather see all the factories placed in one location so everyone in a bomber mission would have a target to hit. And I would like to see more, not fewer zones, so the impact of a zone’s destroyed factories wouldn’t completely cripple a country, just a section at a time. Then, if you can finish taking or defending the zone in the 3 hour down time, everything comes back up. This is in the hands of the map maker but Hitech would have to support it.
I do not think limiting aircraft available at a field because someone bombs a factory is the way to go.
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i agree with..strat is non existance...the only stat used now is to kill troops at every base, which take ages to come back, where as hangers come back too quickly..game is too slow at the moment because of these timings..
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Easy let me get this straight. If we say kill the grunt training facility 100% then kill troops at the bases no troops will be avalible for 3 HOURS???
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That is correct Icemaw.
rabbidrabbit: Allthow in theory your suggestion sounds good, In fact It dosn't work very well.
Simple facts are 90 % of player suggested Ideas are not good ideas for various resones. All that me getting involded in these discususion would do is pit me against the players. With me having to endlessly discribe why things don't work the way poeple would invision them. A lot like your suggestion on this topic.
Another 9% of the remaining ideas have already been discussed.
So that leaves us with about 1% of the ideas worth getting involved in, these are already the ones I get involved in.
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icemaw--
Yes, if you reduce the city to 0% at the same time, too. That's my understanding. However, the enemy could start sending waves of C-47's with supplies to the fields, factories, and cities. Each one will reduce that time by 15 minutes. In addition, each auto-supply train or convoy will reduce times by 30 minutes.
So, the three-hour downtime is more hypothetical than real.
Last week, AcId, Beefcake, and I bombed an enemy troop training facility with B-24's carrying 8 x 1,000 lbers. In one 5-second pass we reduced it from 100% to 20%. Since the sector city (OZKansas map) was already at 35%, the troop training facility stayed low for quite a while. [One and a half hours, or so. I don't know if anyone resupplied it.]
For the gory details, go to the HTC web page, click on "Help", then "Strategic Targets"
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I'd like to very sycophantically say that HTC has been the most communicative and responsive company I've ever dealt with. They really do listen. I think it's great that hitech is reading these posts all the time. He may only have responded to one that was critical, but I bet he read my opinion, too.
MRPLUTO
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Yes - Please add strats back to the game. Make the game have some sort of purpose aside from furball all the time.
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Simple facts are 90 % of player suggested Ideas are not good ideas for various resones. All that me getting involded in these discususion would do is pit me against the players. With me having to endlessly discribe why things don't work the way poeple would invision them. A lot like your suggestion on this topic.
What about the general stuff HT. Do you see any major changes or significant adjustments that need to be made in the Main Arena (gameplay, strat type of stuff)? I'm not even looking for anything too specific -- just trying to clear up the "broke or not broke" issue at the core of many of these BBS threads.
If you think everything is substantially fine the way it is (and I'm sure for many if not most of the player base that may be the case) then it puts a different perspective on these threads.
Charon
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I like the idead of just there being a limited set of planes. The pilot will have to show more responsibility in flying it instead of pork and auger it. You auger it just for a useless mission then there is one less of that type of plane left and have to wait until the factory produces more if they are shamefully wasted on useless porking missions.
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http://www.flyaceshigh.com/ahhelp/map.html#targets
"Each drop of convoy or train supplies on damaged city targets reduces the 3 hour downtime by 30 minutes. Each drop of player supplies reduces the downtime by 15 minutes"
"Each time a train, convoy or barge spawns, it first checks to see if there has been damage to the supplier (cities supply factories and factories supply fields). The amount of supplies carried to the destination depends on the amount of damage to the supplier. If the supplier has been damaged by 50%, only one out of every six train cars or convoy trucks will carry supplies. "
I only add one personal observation I have never received a perk for resupplying a strat other than HQ - but that was probably because I was trying it out on a broken map. (Or maybe because nothing comes back right away ?) edit: Strangely, unless it has changed, there is a score penalty for each supply mission - as you do not get any score for resupply trip. So each resupply mission you fly/drive reduces your per sortie scoire numbers (since it increases sorties but adds no score).
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Dear God, somebody send HiTech a dictionary...:D
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Originally posted by Spongebob
Dear God, somebody send HiTech a dictionary...:D
Can you imagine the weekly bug meetings?
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my idea isn't new . it is not my idea. it is hitechs old idea that he made into a strategic system.
this old idea was modified with new stuff that made it complex and confusing and makes bombing a novelty isntead of a viable way to cripple the enemy.
I like the old version better because it worked better
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I think I asked this a few years ago, but got a fuzzy answer or my memory is in the crapper. I haven't actually had the patience to test this out, but constantly destroying a train/barge/convoy should keep objects down for an infinite amount of time. Is that correct?
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That is correct Octavious.
HiTech
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yes...but then came the age of the titanium truck. Trucks and trains are very hard to kill now. In the old days people actually spent time loooking for and killing them. This continued until a patch shortly after the patch where the mossie was introduced. Then the trains and trucks were made so hard to kill to were nobody did it any more.
sooo, yeah you can kill them, but it is impractical/unprofitable to actually go about doing it. ( I have even been in fights where enemy runs to a train so it could provide him cover with it's death ray gun.)
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Originally posted by Citabria
heres the lynchpin that proves the point:
all strat factories on mindanao are disconnected on the northeast and south countries and no one has noticed. only the west country has a workign strat factory system. it proves it right there. its broke and to confusing and un needed for anyone to notice. except someone who notices when the b24 windshield is not proportioned right and the pitot tubes on the top of the nose are missing.
i noticed and posted a bug report ;)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135631
and i think your b24 missions showed that it does work but it sure takes alot of work...
i mean in a perfect world, if a player sees his HQ is about to hit, and he knows its going down for 2 hours, he will up and defend it, as soon as its in trouble with a proper plane. 163's being the last resort. (right now 163s are the only resort for people it seems)
but instead they come to the forum and whine how easy it is to kill there dam hq, and get it HTC to hardend up... they forget to mention how EASY it is to up a plane and kill the dam HQ raiders, or how easy it is to resupply it.
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another effect of this broken system is stalemate.
since captured bases are not resupplied they can be disabled troops for 3 hours and the war stops with enough porking.
no one will realistically up a goon 10 times to repair a field 3 bases back just to do the same thing again at the next closest field and then the front line field.
zones dont work.
unresupplied captured bases dont work.
both of these remove the advantage of capturing bases and removing your factories from direct threat by having them further from the front.
no advantage no reason no strat equals stalemate and stagnate front.
its not the difficulty of killing barracks causing this, its the 3 hour down time of the barracks at the captured fields.
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10 bucks says reverting the strat system to the setup before zones and unresupplied captured bases will solve the problem.
anything else will just be a bandaid on a broken strat system.
already fuel has been removed from a strat target and it seems barracks are next.
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Originally posted by Citabria
10 bucks says reverting the strat system to the setup before zones and unresupplied captured bases will solve the problem.
anything else will just be a bandaid on a broken strat system.
already fuel has been removed from a strat target and it seems barracks are next.
fester i totaly agree, but i doubt anything will be done.
maps need a core HQ/City/Strat area which is IMPORTANT to defend, ie people will UP to defend it because they KNOW its going to effect them if they dont, problem is they just whine instead when it all goes wrong
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Originally posted by Overlag
... ie people will UP to defend it because they KNOW its going to effect them if they dont...
See, I think that's the wrong approach. We need to find the system that makes people WANT to up and defend because they know it will be FUN to defend. When an enemy CV is off shore, you go there to defend becuase it's fun, not because you want to defend the base, and no one is happy when somebody sinks the CV.
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Originally posted by Easyscor
See, I think that's the wrong approach. We need to find the system that makes people WANT to up and defend because they know it will be FUN to defend. When an enemy CV is off shore, you go there to defend becuase it's fun, not because you want to defend the base, and no one is happy when somebody sinks the CV.
it is fun upping to intercept bombers, its a easy way to get "free" kills if you know what you are doing. problem right now is 90% of the player base ignore ib raids untill its within 163 range, why i dont know. By the time its within 163 range its too late IMO.
Surely it would be better to up a 109g10, or a 190a8 and follow the bombers for 30minutes, keeping them constantly busy and taking a few down this way? Hell if the formations are low enough you could up a 110 and really piss them off :D
I have great fun intercepting bomber formations (i dont mean just 3), but its so rare to see bomber formations these days, and even rarer to see fighter formations intercepting them.....
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Originally posted by Citabria
10 bucks says reverting the strat system to the setup before zones and unresupplied captured bases will solve the problem.
I don't know if that's the answer or not but it could be worth going back to on some of the existing maps. I think there could be several systems that would work but each terrain needs the system that works best on that particular terrain. I don't believe in one size fits all.
There is a lot of talk about hardening this or that, or adding more ack etc etc. The harder the base is to capture, the more incentive for the horde.
I think some fields should be easy to capture and some should take much more coordination. Instead of adding more strat at each field, I’m beginning to think there should be many more small bases with the old style Towns, packed closer together, and then some larger bases which are harder to capture. A single squad should be able to capture most small bases but it would take larger numbers to capture the medium or large bases. I don’t see anything in the game or terrain editor that would prevent this. Put together with more zones and consolidated strat factories, I think it would be a winning combination with different styles of play all over the map. Now if I can just sell it to Hitech.
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no frikn way..
Overlag...we have lives outside this GAME...
You knwo why peopel dont "Chase " down Buffs...CAUSE IT SUCKS...
SO you up a buff killr to grab 20K +?...just to have to take another 10 minutes making passes on the buffs good enuff not to get shot up?..
way too long most of the time
If you dont know how to up me 163s before Buffs Get in range...I can help..
1) Dont use full thrttle ..You can meet the incoming buffs farther out..
2) IF you are really a bad pilot..you can go Hotload the me163 at the next base
Flying prop planes to atak Hi alt buffs takes too long..
I need instant Kills...truthfully..I would pay perks for airstarts..anyday
TOD TOD TOD TOD!
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If I hear that a buff formation is near a base at 10k i'll up a 110g2 and go blast the thing with 30s. Its just fun... Anything more than that and Buff hunting is just boring.
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Originally posted by icemaw
Easy let me get this straight. If we say kill the grunt training facility 100% then kill troops at the bases no troops will be avalible for 3 HOURS???
there is always something called "Resupply" by M3's or goons
some decent perks to be had that way too although bomber perks earned by gooning are pretty much useless
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You guys who think buff hunting is boring--
I can understand why you feel that way, but from my point of view...
I guess I'm part hunter, because I love the stalking, the planning...watching and judging my prey. The adrenaline builds; discipline and concentration must be maintained at a high level for an extended period, as you manuver your plane into attack position. Then the moment for attack comes and you must relax and focus on one bomber. You must find that seconds-long window of opportunity that lets you deliver deadly fire. And all the while you must use deception and manuver to throw-off the aim of the defending gunners. What's so boring about that?
Then you've two more bombers to go after, so the fun is far from over. You've only just begun to sweat.
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I go up against bombers all the time. I've had running battles with a formation that went on for 75 miles. And I win. I get one, two, sometimes three kills and land, often without damage. I've methodically shot down a B-17 with a C. 202 and a B-24 with only a few hundred rounds of 12.7 mm from a Ki-84. In neither attack did I sustain any damage.
To take a buff killer to 25k only takes 8-9 minutes, so if I then spend the next 10 minutes shooting down buffs "good enough not to get shot up", then I've really accomplished something requiring a high degree of many skills, I think. And it certainly isn't boring ho'ing a formation of heavy bombers successfully, again and again.
MRPLUTO
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
no frikn way..
Overlag...we have lives outside this GAME...
You knwo why peopel dont "Chase " down Buffs...CAUSE IT SUCKS...
SO you up a buff killr to grab 20K +?...just to have to take another 10 minutes making passes on the buffs good enuff not to get shot up?..
way too long most of the time
If you dont know how to up me 163s before Buffs Get in range...I can help..
1) Dont use full thrttle ..You can meet the incoming buffs farther out..
2) IF you are really a bad pilot..you can go Hotload the me163 at the next base
Flying prop planes to atak Hi alt buffs takes too long..
I need instant Kills...truthfully..I would pay perks for airstarts..anyday
TOD TOD TOD TOD!
:rolleyes:
it takes like 4 minutes to get to alt in a 109g10 then you've got ALOT more rounds to attack bombers with than a explosive cofin people call the 163.
but then i dare say you always come dead 6 and wonder why you die instantly, then moan that you climbed for 20minutes to get that far...... 10minutes climbing in a 109g10 will have you skimming outer space :rolleyes:
some people are so short sighted and seem to think that this game is suppose to be instant action.:rolleyes:
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Mrpluto just summed it up for me
Originally posted by MRPLUTO
You guys who think buff hunting is boring--
I can understand why you feel that way, but from my point of view...
I guess I'm part hunter, because I love the stalking, the planning...watching and judging my prey. The adrenaline builds; discipline and concentration must be maintained at a high level for an extended period, as you manuver your plane into attack position. Then the moment for attack comes and you must relax and focus on one bomber. You must find that seconds-long window of opportunity that lets you deliver deadly fire. And all the while you must use deception and manuver to throw-off the aim of the defending gunners. What's so boring about that?
Then you've two more bombers to go after, so the fun is far from over. You've only just begun to sweat.
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I go up against bombers all the time. I've had running battles with a formation that went on for 75 miles. And I win. I get one, two, sometimes three kills and land, often without damage. I've methodically shot down a B-17 with a C. 202 and a B-24 with only a few hundred rounds of 12.7 mm from a Ki-84. In neither attack did I sustain any damage.
To take a buff killer to 25k only takes 8-9 minutes, so if I then spend the next 10 minutes shooting down buffs "good enough not to get shot up", then I've really accomplished something requiring a high degree of many skills, I think. And it certainly isn't boring ho'ing a formation of heavy bombers successfully, again and again.
MRPLUTO
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no..4 minutes climing in a 109g10..will at the best get you to 16k...
..YES..it takes a long..to properly attak a buff formation..(b-26-b17--b24)
oH!!..but then you say ..u need to climb for 10 minutes?..
overlag..you proved nothing..excpet you can not understand what I typed..
Ya..I attak from ..lo alt dead 6.....what a dolt you are...
So answer this yourself...why do people wait to intercept buff with the me163 ..rather then take ..20-30 minutes to attk deathstars?
I find it funny you didnt respond to that 1...lololo
LMFAo..short sighted..how about..WE CANT SPEND ALL FRIKN DAY intercepting a buff formation at 28k...maybe you can..as you can see..THE MAJORITY DO NOT...prrof is in the pudding....
being people wait to up me163s..
BTW...you say you cant even reach buff inbound in tiem in a 163?...I hav eserious doubt about your skills when you say that...again..I give you an invitation for lessons if you want
Happy T day...
Love
BiGB
xoxo
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
no..4 minutes climing in a 109g10..will at the best get you to 16k...
..YES..it takes a long..to properly attak a buff formation..(b-26-b17--b24)
oH!!..but then you say ..u need to climb for 10 minutes?..
overlag..you proved nothing..excpet you can not understand what I typed..
Ya..I attak from ..lo alt dead 6.....what a dolt you are...
So answer this yourself...why do people wait to intercept buff with the me163 ..rather then take ..20-30 minutes to attk deathstars?
I find it funny you didnt respond to that 1...lololo
LMFAo..short sighted..how about..WE CANT SPEND ALL FRIKN DAY intercepting a buff formation at 28k...maybe you can..as you can see..THE MAJORITY DO NOT...prrof is in the pudding....
being people wait to up me163s..
BTW...you say you cant even reach buff inbound in tiem in a 163?...I hav eserious doubt about your skills when you say that...again..I give you an invitation for lessons if you want
Happy T day...
Love
BiGB
xoxo
:rolleyes:
:rofl
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hahah u lose..
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
hahah u lose..
:rofl
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still a loser!!!!
ohh..should i put a smiley face too?..lolol...
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and what have you "won" :rofl
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I have answered ur questions..and you have not answered mine..
so that means I won..I won the real world flying test...
Do i need to restate the facts?..or can you scroll up?
163's?...Dont have enuff fuel to intercept buffs intime?...WRONG
109g10..will catch buffs in 4 min?..LMFAO..WRONG
so how hi does a 109g10 in 4 min? how much fuel u bringn?..u have gonds on?..lolo this will be good
we can just start with theses 2 for now
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
I have answered ur questions..and you have not answered mine..
so that means I won..I won the real world flying test...
Do i need to restate the facts?..or can you scroll up?
163's?...Dont have enuff fuel to intercept buffs intime?...WRONG
109g10..will catch buffs in 4 min?..LMFAO..WRONG
so how hi does a 109g10 in 4 min? how much fuel u bringn?..u have gonds on?..lolo this will be good
we can just start with theses 2 for now
since when did i say 163s dont have the fuel to intercept? I mearly said that once bombers are within the 163 range its TOO late to stop them, if theres 10 (x3) bombers ib how are YOU and lets say 5 163's going to stop them all in less than 5minutes to target? You are not....
I didnt say a 109g10 will catch buffs in 4minutes :rolleyes: i said a good 4minute climb will get you to ALT, or at least a good alt.
So you have 10minutes to fly to a furball but you dont have 10minutes to shoot bombers?
and why such a stupid attitude problem?
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lolo..well now you are changing your story...
now its..the me163s are outnumbered?...lolol..lets say its equal...10 me 163s ..and 10 bomber formations?..you still think buffs win?..I dont
I have seen large box formations mauled many times by 163s.
So..your 109g10 gets to alt..then has to setup to make attaks..
WHY?...why not use me163s?...its much faster...
no attitude problem here....You just make statements that are un true
You know..I dotn even like flying more then 5 miles from my base to furball.......Why?
I dont need alt...and why waste time flying virtual air..its a waist of time..
Im not a purse swinger
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
lolo..well now you are changing your story...
now its..the me163s are outnumbered?...lolol..lets say its equal...10 me 163s ..and 10 bomber formations?..you still think buffs win?..I dont
I have seen large box formations mauled many times by 163s.
So..your 109g10 gets to alt..then has to setup to make attaks..
WHY?...why not use me163s?...its much faster...
no attitude problem here....You just make statements that are un true
You know..I dotn even like flying more then 5 miles from my base to furball.......Why?
I dont need alt...and why waste time flying virtual air..its a waist of time..
Im not a purse swinger
i give up you win......there you go, have a medal! WTG! :rofl
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lolo you think your smartazzz smiley remarks makes you right?..lolol
Yes you were wrong
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
...you proved nothing..excpet you can not understand what I typed..
I have to agree... I don't understand what you typed either.
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
lolo you think your smartazzz smiley remarks makes you right?..lolol
Yes you were wrong
im not wrong you are just talking S**T
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yes you are WRONG..
ME163s are fully capable of intercetping and Killing inbound Buff formations hititng HQ..
is that simple enuff for you?
Guess we will do one lie of yours at a time
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
yes you are WRONG..
ME163s are fully capable of intercetping and Killing inbound Buff formations hititng HQ..
is that simple enuff for you?
Guess we will do one lie of yours at a time
please quote where i said otherwise.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
Im not a purse swinger
Well, I'd say you're a male genitalia testicle sack swinger which is pretty close to the same thing.
If someone takes away the purse / sack, the only thing left is a whining little girl.
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Originally posted by Midnight
Well, I'd say you're a male genitalia testicle sack swinger which is pretty close to the same thing.
If someone takes away the purse / sack, the only thing left is a whining little girl.
at least im not the only one that is seeing this
its just a shame i took the bait :(
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Originally posted by Overlag
its just a shame i took the bait :(
I was pretty surprised too, overlag. He's obviously a disordered personality.
(Hell, I probably woulda argued with him if I could decipher the spelling.)
:cool:
Great thread otherwise,
Mullah