Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: 1Duke1 on November 17, 2004, 11:06:04 PM
-
Yep...it's BoB time again:)
Been awhile since we last ran the setup, so here's the lineup.
England
Hurri-I
Spit-I
C-47
Germany
Bf-109E-4
Bf-110C-4b
Ju-88A-4 (formation disabled)
Stuka
C-47
Wanting to try something out here also....I'm going to set field capture at 30 troops, and downtime will be 10 mins. This setup is the defense of England, so as can be seen, there are no attack/bomber aircraft for the Allies. But on the flip side, if the Axis want to take a field, they are going to have to coordinate, and work hard for it.
GV's are also being left out, as this was purely an aerial battle.
As a headsup for all, setup will change at 0100ish Friday morning.
Have fun and enjoy! :aok
-
you're asking for trouble with the c47's enabled. that 30 troop capture is a double-edged sword. :eek:
especially w/o any brit bombs available, or gv's... just how are the brits to re-take any bases that will surely be milked by, even if they have to coordinate it at 4:35am PST.
-
The man has a point. Specially since the Hurri I and Spit I cant carry bombs and have no cannon even, making ack gunning a little hairy. You could enable Bostons or A-20s from some of the rear bases only. Just a suggestion.
SA2
-
or just disable base capture all together...
can't remember any bases being captured in England during the real BOB...
-
Originally posted by Eagler
or just disable base capture all together...
can't remember any bases being captured in England during the real BOB...
A pertinent observation.
One way or the other, though...
It's Battle of Britain Time! Hooray!
- oldman
-
Agreed. This is one of the few setups where I dont care which side I fly on lol.
-
how about we also disable shane`s typing fingers as well?:D
-
Originally posted by allmetal
how about we also disable shane`s typing fingers as well?:D
Ch 200 is optional. :D
-
Yeah but if you choose to not tune in 200 you may still recieve 'personal' messages.
-
Yeah. I think HT should coad a squelch feature or sumpin. :D
-
Originally posted by Oldman731
It's Battle of Britain Time! Hooray!
- oldman
and a great way to start off my first week back .
Cheers,
asw
-
Originally posted by VWE
Yeah but if you choose to not tune in 200 you may still recieve 'personal' messages.
i almost never type on private, but yesterday i wanted to let you know exactly how weak your flying is. i think urchin pegged you and jg54 spot on.
-
Easy solution, give the Brits the SBD in place of the Skua for a bomber, and give them the M3 for troops instead of the C47. Both the A-20 and Boston are waaaaaaay too fast for a '40 BoB set.
-
i almost never type on private, but yesterday i wanted to let you know exactly how weak your flying is. i think urchin pegged you and jg54 spot on.
Hmmm wonder what my k/d of you this tour is...
-
Originally posted by Grits
Easy solution, give the Brits the SBD in place of the Skua for a bomber, and give them the M3 for troops instead of the C47. Both the A-20 and Boston are waaaaaaay too fast for a '40 BoB set.
and the ju-88a-4 isn't?
i'd like for once to see the ju88's left out, as it might allow the ju-87 to get a little more bidness, along with the 110's, since the BoB was basically a tactical engagement initially.
-
and the ju-88a-4 isn't?
See, if only we had the He-111... but nooooo, we really needed that B-24J first. :aok
-
Originally posted by VWE
Hmmm wonder what my k/d of you this tour is...
alone? 1:5... with 2 or 3 other buddies helping you, errr i mean with you coming in to "help" your two or 3 buddies, maybe 1:1.
i think we can both agree on who's gonna end up in tower if it comes down to having to "git r done" by oneself.
:rofl
-
Funny, I think you have more kills of me in a ship gun than air to air... oh well, if that's how ya gotta get em so be it oh ackchair miester. :rofl
-
Pistols at dawn for you two?
-
LOL can we have knives? That would be much more enjoyable... :D
-
been there, done that, you lost 'em, remember?
:D
-
No, he didn't loose em, I still have it from the last one Shane. Remember, you shot the guy, then proceeded to drive over his M3 in a Tiger til it was about 1 inch high.
Anyway, had to use a jaw-of-life to get the gun out of the wreckage. By the looks of it (looking at the gun closely), you can see a tread mark on the side of the barrel, or is that the guys teeth impression? :D
Alrighty, both of you, off to the DA you go. Here are your pistols - VWE - you get the tooth-marked one.
-
been there, done that, you lost 'em, remember?
Someday you'll venture out of your ice cave...[
-
Originally posted by Mister Fork
Alrighty, both of you, off to the DA you go. Here are your pistols - VWE - you get the tooth-marked one.
*that's* what I was referring to by my comment. :aok
-
Originally posted by Shane
and the ju-88a-4 isn't?
i'd like for once to see the ju88's left out, as it might allow the ju-87 to get a little more bidness, along with the 110's, since the BoB was basically a tactical engagement initially.
Top speed of the Ju88 on the deck is about 240 MPH, while the speed of the A20/Boston on the deck is 315 MPH, that is a significant difference seeing that its around 15MPH faster than the fastest fighters on either side.
I dont have a problem taking the Ju88 out, but it is acceptable in a '40 set, the A-20/Boston are not.
-
But the Ju-88A-4 and Boston III are contemporaries.
"The Boston III began to arrive in Britain in the spring of 1941."
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a20_5.html
"The Ju 88A-4 was finally delivered early in 1941, with the 1,400 hp Jumo 211F-1 or 211J engines."
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christophe.arribat/stofju88.html
while i'm not advocating adding the a20, i'm just saying lose the ju-88 for once so we can see the stuka more.
-
Yanno, I'd be just as happy with none of them and uncapturable bases. When I suggested the Boston or A20, I knew they were fast, but I also suggested ONLY making them available from a few rear bases, so that anyone who upped one would have to fly forever to get to a captured forward base.
It was a suggestion. I dont make official decisions and nobody official has endorsed the idea from what I saw in the thread. Jeezus, you guys take one persons idea and act like its the gospel or something. Lighten up a bit gents.
Use Grits' idea and give em SBD's and Stukas. If that happened, I'd keep the GV's out completely though and just add the C-47 to the Brit side.
-
Ok...I'm a reasonable man....I will make the following changes:
Ju-88 will be removed.
SBD-5 will be added at a limited number of bases.
M3 will be added to British bases.
All other settings remain.
-
Why can't you just leave it like it is? Shane opposes something so you change it? Why not just let Shane setup the areana each week, he already acts like he runs it anyway.
-
all i suggested was removing the ju88, sheesh... axis still has stukas and 110's and in all likelyhood i'll be flying axis. i think escorting stulas to target, as opposed to individual formations of ju88's coming in on the lemming trail would be a true test of a skwad's ability to get the job done, no?
as for the capture thing, it's not bad per se, but as it was initially setup, it'd be for all intents and purposes impossible for the brits to re-take any bases without any planes with bombs or gv's available.
but it'd be a fairly simple matter for 4-6 people to milk a base or 2 in england in the wee hours.
think about it... unless that's too hard for you?
-
He cant ram the ack or the buildings.
:rofl
-
edited... :)
BoB-time!
-
Would you perfer the A-20? If the SBD turns out to be too Uber (did I really say that?) I am sure Duke will do something about it. Lets not get our panties all bunched up until we see how it works out shall we?
-
There's some says the SBD is quite the fighter ... can't see as why I'd prefer to use it in such a role over the Spit or Hurri (even the I variants). But, ifluff'n some do, I can't see it being more a threat. I just won't like seeing my precious navy blue planes .... in a freakin' BOB setup. If we're gonna fudge BOB to even things and we need a bomb dropper for the allies ... add the Hurri IIc to the mix. Bombs and cannons. Too much? Go with the Boston.
Armament:
4x303 cal 500 rpg in the nose
2x303 cal 1000 rpg in the useless dorsal
250 lb bombs or
500 lb bombs
-
Duke,
I personally think you are doing and try to do a splendid job on the setup.kudos to you, but if every type keeps whining just make it combat only and drop the bombats! :D
keep up the good work Duke :aok
-
TC is right, if it doesnt work out, what have we lost? We sure wont get anything by running the same old setups we have had in the past. If this doesnt work out, try something else next time.
-
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
Duke,
I personally think you are doing and try to do a splendid job on the setup.kudos to you, but if every type keeps whining just make it combat only and drop the bombats! :D
keep up the good work Duke :aok
Absolutely agree on all points.
- oldman
-
Ditto
-
Do 'SBD' and 'uber' belong in the same sentence?
-
Times like this I wish AH had a some sort of a collective 'scoring system'... so we can turn off base captures but still encourage people to fly bombers and go bust East Dock or Liverpool.
Can't we just retain the basic historical twist that the Tommies are trying to defend, and the Krauts are trying to lob ombs? Why is this urgent need to give the RAF a bomber so important?
Just take the C-47 out and basically all the problem's gone, isn't it?
-
You are correct, but if we take out the C-47 the axis will whine all week. If we give the Axis the ability to take bases in England and we dont give the Brits something with bombs so they can take them back the Brits will whine all week. If we leave the C-47 out all together both sides will whine all week.
Personally, I think both score and base capture should permanently be off, but thats just me.
-
Heh.
Take out the C-47A and enable the LVT-4 at coastal German cities. Make them drive it all the way across the channel to take British territory. No remote spawn points. Start in the hangar and dive to the water, then swim the Channel and land troops in England.
That might fix both problems at once.
-
Make them drive it all the way across the channel to take British territory. :aok
-
Originally posted by Shane
"The Ju 88A-4 was finally delivered early in 1941, with the 1,400 hp Jumo 211F-1 or 211J engines."
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christophe.arribat/stofju88.html
while i'm not advocating adding the a20, i'm just saying lose the ju-88 for once so we can see the stuka more.
AIRCRAFT SPECIFICATIONS
Full Name: Junkers Ju 88
Variants: Many versions, data given here for Ju 88A-4, C-6, G-7, S-1
Type: Originally designed as a dive bomber, but developed for level bombing, close support, night fighting, reconnaisance and as a pilotless missile
Country of Origin: Germany
Manufacturer: Junkers Flugzeugwerke AG
First Flight: (Ju 88V1) 21st December 1936; (first Ju 88A-1) 7th September 1939; (first fighter, Ju 88C-0) July 1939; (Ju 88C-6) mid-1942; (first G-series) early 1944; (S-series) late 1943
Engine(s): (A-4) two 1,340 hp Junkers Jumo 211J 12-cylinder inverted-vee liquid-cooled; (C-6) same as A-4; (G-7) two 1,880 hp Junkers Jumo 213E 12-cylinder inverted-vee liquid-cooled; (S-1) two 1,700 hp BMW 801G 18-cylinder two-row radials
Wingspan: 65 ft 10.5 in (20.13 m) (early versions 59 ft 10.75 in)
Length: 47 ft 2.25 in (14.4 m)
Height: 15 ft 11 in (4.85 m); (C-6) 16 ft 7.5 in (5 m)
Weights: Empty: (A-4) 17,637 lb (8,000 kg); (G-7b) 20,062 lb (9,100 kg); (S-1) 18,300 lb (8,300 kg)
Maximum loaded: (A-4) 30,865 lb (14,000 kg); (C-6b) 27,500 lb (12,485 kg); (G-7b) 32,350 lb (14,690 kg); (S-1) 23,100 lb (10,490 kg)
Maximum Speed: (A-4) 269 mph (433 km/h); (C-6b) 300 mph (480 km/h); (G-7b with no drop tank or flame dampers) 402 mph (643 km/h); (S-1) 373 mph (600 km/h)
Service Ceiling: (A-4) 26,900 ft (8,200 m); (C-6b) 32,480 ft (9,900 m); (G-7b) 28,870 ft (8,800 m); (S-1) 36,090 ft (11,000 m)
Range: (A-4) 1,112 miles (1,790 km); (C-6b) 1,243 miles (2,000 km); (G-7b) 1,430 miles (2,300 km); (S-1) 1,243 miles (2,000 km)
Armament: Guns: (A-4) two 7.92 mm MG 81 (or one MG 81 and one 13 mm MG 131) firing forward, twin MG 81 or one MG 131 upper rear, one or two MG 81 at rear of ventral gondola and (later aircraft) two MG 81 at front of gondola; (C-6b) three 20 mm MG FF and three MG 17 in nose and two 20 mm MG 151 / 20 firing obliquely upward in Schräge Musik installation; (G-7b) four MG 151 / 20 (200 rounds each) firing forward from ventral fairing, two MG 151 / 20 in Schräge Musik installation (200 rounds each) and defensive MG 131 (500 rounds) swivelling in rear roof; (S-1) one MG 131 (500 rounds) swivelling in rear roof. Bomb Loads: (A-4) 1,100 lb (500 kg) internal and four external racks rated at 2,200 lb (1,000 kg) (inners) and 1,100 lb (500 kg) (outers) to maximum total bomb load of 6,614 lb (3,000 kg); (C-6b and G-7b) none carried; (S-1) up tp 4,410 lb (2,000 kg) on external racks
AIRCRAFT HISTORY
Probably no other aircraft in history has been developed in so many quite different forms for so many purposes - except, perhaps, for the De Havilland Mosquito. Flown long before World War II as a civil prototype, after a frantic design process led by two temporarily hired Americans well-versed in modern stressed-skin construction, the first Ju 88s were transformed into the heavier, slower and more capacious A-1 bombers which were just entering service as World War II began. The formidable bomb load and generally good performance were offset by inadequate defensive armament, and in the A-4 the span was increased, the bomb load and gun power substantially augmented and a basis laid for diverse further development. Though it would be fair to describe practically all the subsequent versions as a hodge-podge of lash-ups, the Ju 88 was structurally excellent, combined large internal fuel capacity with great load-carrying capability, and yet was never so degraded in performance as to become seriously vulnerable as were the Dornier and Heinkel bombers.
Indeed, with the BMW radial and the Jumo 213 engines, the later versions were almost as fast as the best contemporary fighters at all altitudes and could be flown around the sky quite violently into the bargain. A basic design feature was that all the crew were huddled together, to improve combat morale; but in the Battle of Britain it was found this merely made it difficult to add proper defensive armament, and in the later Ju 188 a much larger crew compartment was provided. Another distinctive feature was the large single struts of the main landing gear, sprung with stacks of chamfered rings of springy steel, and arranged to turn the big, soft-field wheels through 90° to lie flat in the rear of the nacelles. In 1940 to 1943 about 2,000 Ju 88 bombers were built each year, nearly all A-5 or A-5 versions. After splitting off completely new branches which led to the Ju 188 and 388, bomber development was directed to the streamlined S series of much higher performance, it having become accepted that the traditional Luftwaffe species of bomber was doomed if intercepted, no matter how many extra guns and crew it might carry. Indeed, even the bomb and fuel loads were reduced in most S sub-types, though the S-2 had fuel in the original bomb bay and large bulged bomb stowage (which defeated the objective of reducing drag).
Final bomber versions included the P series of big-gun anti-armour and close-support machines, the Nbwe with flame-throwers and recoilless rocket projectors, and a large family of Mistel composite-aircraft combinations, in which the Ju 88 lower portion was a pilotless missile steered by the fighter originally mounted on top. Altogether bomber, reconnaisance and related 88s totalled 10,774, while frantic construction of night fighter versions in 1944-45 brought the total to at least 14,980. The Ju 88 night fighters (especially the properly designed G series) were extremely formidable, bristling with radar and weapons and being responsible for destroying more Allied night bombers than all other fighters combined.
-
Originally posted by Slash27
Do 'SBD' and 'uber' belong in the same sentence?
They do if I'm flying it :aok