Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tilt on November 18, 2004, 05:20:32 AM
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I find these much easier to use although I struggle to see why just removing the need to set target alt makes such a difference.
The feed back interms of air speed set is very useful ( did we have it before and I didnt notice) as taking multiple calibrations tells me if they "look right" by checking any movement in the speed set during calibration.
If the speed is gently increasing or decreasing I can compensate by releasing bombs a little earlier or later.
It does seem that air speed on approach (ie am I coming in fast or slow) has little to do with accuracy. I find it as easy and as accurate to calibrate at 225 as it is at 185.
The formation B24 with 4 x 2000lbs is a field killer. I am picking off hangers with relevant ease at 6000lbs per salvo. In fact more so than a twin salvo of 3 x 1000lbs.
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Because they removed more than just the need to set target alt?
They made triangulating your speed very easy as now you no longer need to hold the crosshair on a particular point.
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just hold y during calibration. thats all you gotta do. You should be able to pick off hangers with 1000 lber. Just keep your speed steady.i.e. go straight and dont change throttle for a long time.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Because they removed more than just the need to set target alt?
They made triangulating your speed very easy as now you no longer need to hold the crosshair on a particular point.
explains it all thanks...............was still using the JS
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Originally posted by Karnak
Because they removed more than just the need to set target alt?
They made triangulating your speed very easy as now you no longer need to hold the crosshair on a particular point.
So now if you keep steady speed the cross hair gives absolute precision?
are we back to the 1 bomb 1 hit from 20kft days?
Bozon
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Originally posted by bozon
So now if you keep steady speed the cross hair gives absolute precision?
are we back to the 1 bomb 1 hit from 20kft days?
Bozon
Not quite as the bombs still drift and a given calibration is only good for that speed and heading +/- 5°.
What changed was that when calibrating you no longer have to click your target's altitude as a calibration is good for any target altitude and you no longer have to manually triangulate your speed.
Basically altitude has been taken out of consideration and triangulating is easier (but not any faster) and everything else remains the same. Bombs still drift. Changing your speed or course will cause you to miss.
Back in the laser sight days the crosshairs always showed exactly where you were going to hit, unless you were in a heavy bank or some such. You could change course and speed at will and never worry about missing and that made multiple passes on a base very easy. Now you still need to make multiple passes you need to get far enough away for your speed to stabilize and recalibrate the bombsight. It takes a lot more time and planning.
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Bozon....Yes
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Ridiculously easy now.
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I agree with Kev.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Ridiculously easy now.
Sadly, yes.
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Seeing more bombers at altitude in a night than I used to see in a week. Also seeing less suicide buffs now that they know they have so much better chance hittting stuff by using boimbsight. If this holds true, it was an overall good trade for the arena.
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Originally posted by Zanth
seeing less suicide buffs now that they know they have so much better chance hittting stuff by using boimbsight. If this holds true, it was an overall good trade for the arena.
I just can't help feeling though that the stuffing has been knocked out of what it meant to be a good bomber. Making things easier does not neccessarily equate with better.
Ok, it's better for the MA with less low level buff runs but since when was the MA ever about realisim.
Ok more guys are doing bomber sorties but it really wasn't that hard in the first place, but to be really good took a bit of hand eye co-ordination.
There was a very valid post I read concerning the introduction of formations. They were brought in at the same time as the new/old bombing method. With this new regime should we not go back to solitary bombers?
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yes..way too easy to bomb,,its ashame i think..
im not a genious...most of the time..but i could bomb just fien with the old way..
Hate to see lazer bomn bak
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im enjoying bombers alot of late were it was rare that i ever used them
(S)HTC:aok
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I like it.
I'm honestly surprised that I am a huge minority that seems to actually climb and bomb from higher altitudes...no not 500ft to 1000ft....I cruise around at 15,000 to 19,000ft and most of the buffs I see are doing the NOE thing.
Conversely, I find very very few fighters bother climbing to intercept me.
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I agree there seems to have been an increase in altitude of the average buff.......................
However a B24 or Lanc formation can now render a small field without fighters and vehicles in two passes quite easily............
and today I did witness a Lanc formation take out (or at least finish off) 2 x BH and 3 x FH in one pass.
I reckon that if the bomber has taken the time and trouble to climb, set course and carefully judge approach etc he deserves the possibility of some reward via achievement..........but this does seem a bit high.................
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Surely ye jest, I mean, just look at the ordinance 3 bombers can carry.
I dont want to go down the path where folks moan at the damage a buff can do. However, buffs can be shot down if defenders attempt to do so.
From what I've seen, a grand majority of the fighters are under 10k. And that's why I climb as high as I do. So while they complain on the public channel about bombers, all they have to do is come rise to my alt and try their best to stop me ;)
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more bomb random scattering needed?
"Iron" GP bombs are 7-10m accurate with a modern CCIP sight in a dive. With a Norden sight from 20k level... well...
That's why carpet bombing was needed in the first place to hit something as big as a factory.
Bozon
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I agree bozon but the problem is rarely will you can't get enough people to do a mass buff run. Don't get me wrong, it does happen from time to time, but overall that's rarely seen. I think this more accurate system is used to make it more fun for those who like to fly bombers and get some satifaction from doing so.
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at least it's nice to see some buffs level bombing again for a change. If dweebing it out is what it takes, I'll take the bitter with the sweet.
Bozon
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You folks need to get off your high horses.
I've been flying in AH for a long time. I remember before this calibration system bombing was fun. I used to do it a lot. Then the stupid calibration came in and for LITERALLY a year I didn't know how to do it. Then when I figured it out, and did it, I missed every time. I kid you not, at steady speed, with perfect crosshair-on-target calibration, I missed every freaking time. So I stopped bombing. It was retarded. I was doing it EXACTLY like the help file said to but it wouldn't work.
FACT, there was nothing "ELITE" about using the damn calibration system. Us bomber drivers were having fun BEFORE it came along and nobody accused of of being dweebs then. You almost NEVER saw a low level bomber then.
FACT, some people do NOT have the best most expensive hardware there is. I fly with a Wingman Extreme 3D (yes, I hear the groaning). Others fly with WORSE.
FACT, some people, INCLUDING long long long time veterans, are older than your average 20-year-old, and don't have the steady hands or the capacity to move the damned crosshair like the help file says (whether or not it works, they can't even attempt it) -- I'm reminded of one vet that had a stroke and had unsteady hands, as an example.
So get of yer damn high horses. The new calibration system was horrible. Just because YOU could do it, 90% of the rest of the game couldn't. Creating an elite shroud for yourselves is immature, considering it's the ineffectiveness of the crappy calibration system in the first place that led to what you call dweebs (low level bomber raids).
This is not a rant. It is chastising pilots that should now better.
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So?
FACT, there was nothing "ELITE" about using the damn calibration system. Us bomber drivers were having fun BEFORE it came along and nobody accused of of being dweebs then. You almost NEVER saw a low level bomber then.
Not a fact.
FACT, some people do NOT have the best most expensive hardware there is. I fly with a Wingman Extreme 3D (yes, I hear the groaning). Others fly with WORSE.
Plenty of players do more with less. Performance ingame is not a function of the price of your hardware.
FACT, some people, INCLUDING long long long time veterans, are older than your average 20-year-old, and don't have the steady hands or the capacity to move the damned crosshair like the help file says (whether or not it works, they can't even attempt it) -- I'm reminded of one vet that had a stroke and had unsteady hands, as an example.
You're even bringing the disabled into your argument. Hmm...
Want to drive that short bus with the nifty elevator Krusty?
Regardless of any bombing system, you're saying AH should cater to a minority.
I can think of another minority... ohh yeah, you dwell in the land of H2H freeloaders :)
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Octavius, you can't even twist words properly. That was a poor attempt, mate.
It is a fact there is nothing elite about using the calibration system. It is a fact us bomber drivers had fun before it came along. It is a fact that nobody accused bomber drivers of being dweebs before the new system. It is a fact that I had NEVER heard of any dweeb-ass dive bombing formations until well AFTER the new calibration system came out.
So what you are saying is you don't believe it or you weren't there to see it. Okay, fine. That means you have no credibility either way.
"performance in game is not a function of the price of your hardware"
I never said it was. I said that not everybody has perfectly functioning machines, can afford to pay $150 for a joystick and another $50 for a throttle unit and another $75 for rudder pedals. The main reason I did NOT fly warbirds was the damn joystick support was crap. One reason I can even FLY Aces High at all is the fact that joystick support is much more managable. Even so my stick only lets me do so much, and it spikes horribly on all axis' all the time, never stopping (and you can't deadband a 100% spike or you get full deadband, and no stick movement). It *IS* a fact that not everybody has an uber system, and it IS a fact that many many pilots have bad input devices (I've run across so many pilots that share my association with the Wingman joystick, and share my pain).
There is a very tangible benefit from having decent input equipment. This usually costs money. Lots of it. For those of us that are not extremists, we use what we already have til it breaks. I know for a fact I couldn't calibrate -- EVER -- on the "new" system. I think my joystick had some small part to play in that problem.
So no, performance is NOT the price of the equipment. But high priced equipment functions a HELL of a lot better than the equipment of the blue collar slob that's just flying for that thing, you know? That one thing, you may remember it. It's called FUN.
For you to make fun of real life people who have had STROKES and or have other problems is not funny in any way. Let's see how insensitive YOU are when one of your own family suffers a similar problem. You simply prove you don't care about what I typed and picked at any straw to attack my statements by likening the elderly and/or disabled pilots to mental retards. Way to go, Oct, way to go.
I reiterate. Get off your damn high horse. You're no better than anyone else here. If your system let you calibrate the system that wouldn't let most others do it, kudos. That doesn't mean s*** about you as a person, in regards to skill. So stop believing you're all that, stop insulting people who can't spend all their money on accessories for PCs, and stop insulting AH pilots that don't have the manual dexterity to calibrate the way YOU like, and grow up.
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Originally posted by Krusty
You folks need to get off your high horses.....
LOL. I won't dwell on what Oct has already covered.
95% of calibrating with the manual calibration is navigation and the patience to hit a preplanned IP. A poor navigator is invariably a poor bomb aimer in that system so if the shoe fits... and there were better manuals available then the help pages for the guys who had enough interest to find them and learn.
Last night I flew a level bomber in the MA for the first time since the new system was introduced. I upped a box of B-17s and climbed to 29k, then proceeded to plink the Rook dar at 7 bases with 7 salvos of 1 each. I was rtb with 5 eggs still in the bay and thinking about how I could have messed up a lot more stuff even with a single buff so when you start loosing your hangers to bombers flying in the stratosphere, I’ll be around to remind you why the manual calibration was implemented in the first place.
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Well all they need to do is remove formations :)
We didn't have then in AH1 waaaaay back. The very treacherous but rewarding single-lancaster-HQ-runs were fun but usually unsuccessful for me. One had to be sneaky then. You had defense, but only so much defense.
Lose the box formation and you can still hit things, but you have to land and reup to hit more, and you only have the defensive guns of 1 bomber, not 3.
Edit: Easy it's that team's fault for not upping to intercept you while you bombed 7 bases lol!
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Originally posted by Krusty
It is a fact that nobody accused bomber drivers of being dweebs before the new system.
:lol Sorry but you must have been reading a different message board then the rest of us.
I freely admit the initial learning curve was tough with the manual calibration, and I protested as much as anybody, but hardware, or even a steady hand, has nothing to do with it. You don't understand that because you didn't find someone to teach you what was needed, and you still don't have a clue about it.
None of this matters. Htc has made a decision, that's the way it's going to be until the next "balancing" round.
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Originally posted by Easyscor
95% of calibrating with the manual calibration is navigation and the patience to hit a preplanned IP. A poor navigator is invariably a poor bomb aimer in that system so if the shoe fits...
I beg to differ (w/ Oct also :)). There are some people out there that were TOTALLY unable to use the old calibration method due to hardware concerns. I know because I'm one of them. Has nothing to do with the bomb aimer. If your controls spiked...you could not get a decent calibration...period.
To answer the question that is dangling out there...yes, I bought new sticks. Three actually.
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Originally posted by Krusty
It is a fact there is nothing elite about using the calibration system. It is a fact us bomber drivers had fun before it came along. It is a fact that nobody accused bomber drivers of being dweebs before the new system. It is a fact that I had NEVER heard of any dweeb-ass dive bombing formations until well AFTER the new calibration system came out.
So what you are saying is you don't believe it or you weren't there to see it. Okay, fine. That means you have no credibility either way.
When you learn the definition of "fact", get back to me. If you shoot a snappy reply aimed at the others of this thread to "get off their high horses" and fail to back it up with reason, then your argument has no leg to stand on.
"performance in game is not a function of the price of your hardware"
I never said it was.
No, you said: "FACT, some people do NOT have the best most expensive hardware there is. I fly with a Wingman Extreme 3D (yes, I hear the groaning). Others fly with WORSE. . So WTF are you implying? That you like cream puffs? Either way, this point is moot. I prove it wrong simply by flying with what I have.
The main reason I did NOT fly warbirds was the damn joystick support was crap. One reason I can even FLY Aces High at all is the fact that joystick support is much more managable.
So should Warbirds have a joystick support on par with AH, you would pay for a subscription over there? Their sub price for existing players is what, ~$25? I didn't know Warturds had H2H.
It *IS* a fact that not everybody has an uber system, and it IS a fact that many many pilots have bad input devices (I've run across so many pilots that share my association with the Wingman joystick, and share my pain).
Congrats, you learned "fact."
There is a very tangible benefit from having decent input equipment. This usually costs money. Lots of it. For those of us that are not extremists, we use what we already have til it breaks. I know for a fact I couldn't calibrate -- EVER -- on the "new" system. I think my joystick had some small part to play in that problem.
So no, performance is NOT the price of the equipment. But high priced equipment functions a HELL of a lot better than the equipment of the blue collar slob that's just flying for that thing, you know? That one thing, you may remember it. It's called FUN.
For you to make fun of real life people who have had STROKES and or have other problems is not funny in any way. Let's see how insensitive YOU are when one of your own family suffers a similar problem. You simply prove you don't care about what I typed and picked at any straw to attack my statements by likening the elderly and/or disabled pilots to mental retards. Way to go, Oct, way to go.
I reiterate. Get off your damn high horse. You're no better than anyone else here. If your system let you calibrate the system that wouldn't let most others do it, kudos. That doesn't mean s*** about you as a person, in regards to skill. So stop believing you're all that, stop insulting people who can't spend all their money on accessories for PCs, and stop insulting AH pilots that don't have the manual dexterity to calibrate the way YOU like, and grow up. [/B]
Woooow. Take a breath. Okay, so now I represent everything "bad" huh? ... the rich, uber HOTAS simpit having, Track IR flying, 300+ hours a tour kinda players that eat babies and stomp kittens right? You have any idea what kind of a minority that is? You're really grasping here. You have zero idea with the kind of equipment I fly with - so your argument is wack. Your assumptions are far off base. Accusing me of insulting anyone and everyone disabled isn't going to make your rant look any less pathetic. Way to go Krusty, way to go.
What I find ironic is that you're ranting to [read: chastising] players for playing a game that HT created. These same players pay subscriptions or help out with training or put together huge special events... these players pay or put in the time in order to fly.. HTC offers your freeloading community the opportunity to fly without a subscription either because they refuse to subscribe and/or are unable to subscribe AND YOU STILL ASK FOR ANOTHER HANDOUT?!
You do realize that when you host in Freeloader Land, you have the ability to enable the old laser bombsight, right? Therefore, it shouldn't make a difference to you WHAT settings HTC uses in the paying Main Arena or elsewhere. So go to your own 8 player room, flick on the laser sight switch, and have all the fun you want.
Talk down to me all you want. I think it's rather funny... I have no bombsight preference any particular way.
Thanks, I'm done. Rant on!
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
I beg to differ...TOTALLY unable to use the old calibration method due to hardware concerns.
I would take it from your post you were not aware that you DO NOT need to TRACK the spot you're calibrating on for the whole time of calibration. Even if you get a spike in your stick, it makes no difference unless the spike occurs at the exact instant you press or release the calibration key. You can point the cross hairs at the moon and it wouldn't mater if they pointed at the same ground reference point when you release the key. Would it be tougher with a bad stick, sure, but no more so then trying to strafe ack or shoot someone down with a spiking stick.
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Thanks Easy, I forgot to mention that. :)
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wow...
how can you feed yourself.....
If you follow dircections..any one could bom with the previous bom calibration.....and we did
now its bak to uber no skill hak boming....I dont really care..but I find it amazing peopel really couldnt figure it out..
btw I fly with a Saitek EVO..$40...love it
And if you cant hold your stik steady enuff to calibrate...How do you shoot down nme ftrs?..
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Come on BGB, calm down there. S! all.
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That is defntly!! the reason why our AH Haks couldnt figure out the calibration..
YOU did not need to hold it steady the WHOLE TIME!!...after figuring that out..dam..it was wayyy easier..
That was the Problem..the Boming tutorials first posted never mentioned that need..or need not to..hold it steady the entire time.....Hell..who can do that>?..lolo
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Originally posted by Krusty
"performance in game is not a function of the price of your hardware"
I never said it was. I said that not everybody has perfectly functioning machines, can afford to pay $150 for a joystick and another $50 for a throttle unit and another $75 for rudder pedals. The main reason I did NOT fly warbirds was the damn joystick support was crap. One reason I can even FLY Aces High at all is the fact that joystick support is much more managable. Even so my stick only lets me do so much, and it spikes horribly on all axis' all the time, never stopping (and you can't deadband a 100% spike or you get full deadband, and no stick movement). It *IS* a fact that not everybody has an uber system, and it IS a fact that many many pilots have bad input devices (I've run across so many pilots that share my association with the Wingman joystick, and share my pain).
There is a very tangible benefit from having decent input equipment. This usually costs money. Lots of it. For those of us that are not extremists, we use what we already have til it breaks. I know for a fact I couldn't calibrate -- EVER -- on the "new" system. I think my joystick had some small part to play in that problem.
So no, performance is NOT the price of the equipment. But high priced equipment functions a HELL of a lot better than the equipment of the blue collar slob that's just flying for that thing, you know? That one thing, you may remember it. It's called FUN.
high priced game controlls wont make u better. might make it easier.
i fly, fight, tank, bomb, and gun with a $13 10 year old
Chproducts mach1 joystick. it has 2 buttons only, the rest i do on the keyboard. hell i dont even have pedals. if i want rudder i use the KB. views, flaps, ect.. all on KB.
old , new, and newest bomb calib i could/can pinpoint bomb.
so stop blaming equipment and LEARN how to bomb, instad of gaming it.
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Originally posted by bozon
more bomb random scattering needed?
"Iron" GP bombs are 7-10m accurate with a modern CCIP sight in a dive. With a Norden sight from 20k level... well...
That's why carpet bombing was needed in the first place to hit something as big as a factory.
Bozon
from what ive read. in WW2 it took avg of 300 bombers to get a
hit on a single target. That was with them considering a hit, a bomb hitting within 300 yards of target.
whels
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Originally posted by Easyscor
I would take it from your post you were not aware that you DO NOT need to TRACK the spot you're calibrating on for the whole time of calibration. Even if you get a spike in your stick, it makes no difference unless the spike occurs at the exact instant you press or release the calibration key. You can point the cross hairs at the moon and it wouldn't mater if they pointed at the same ground reference point when you release the key. Would it be tougher with a bad stick, sure, but no more so then trying to strafe ack or shoot someone down with a spiking stick.
Yep, I am completely aware of the process. You must be on the same spot when you press and when you release. With my controls, it was impossible (I didn't fall off the flak panzer yesterday...its been a couple of weeks and I'm feeling much better now. ) :D. I spent hours with HT trying to figure a workaround, with no success. At the latest convention, he finally got a look at my system and finally understood that with that method of calibration...my system simply could not do it.
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Exactly.
Despite Oct's continued and confounding attempts to talk about things rationally he yet again appears to have no idea of what logic and reason are.
"I prove it wrong simply by flying with what I have."
Don't be a tard, dude. It *IS* a fact that not everybody flies with expensive and/or high quality input devices. The fact that you fly with whatever-the-hell-you-fly-with supports my statement. It is NOT the case that everybody has the same setup. There is NOT economic equality amongst all. We do not live in a communist society where there is only one option when it comes to input devices. As such IT IS A FREAKING FACT that not everybody flies with expensive and/or high quality inputs. Don't you understand the English language? You're not making sense, and you continue to not make sense. Please don't respond to my posts unless you check your own logic and reason in favor of what the REST of the world calls logic and reason.
That's it. I'm done with this post. I get crap for trying to stand up for people who genuinely detest the departing calibration system for GOOD REASONS and I get all this **** thrown in my face by elitests who think they're better than other people. I am not a bomber dweeb. I never make low level bomb runs.. EVER. I have ALWAYS tried to bomb level. I'm not saying that I could ever HIT anyting with this departing calibration system, but that doesn't negate my point that the system was imperfect, and prevented some people from bombing.
I don't need this crap thrown at me by people who need to feel better about themselves so they throw out belittling blanket accusations that cover 90% of the AH community (*cough*Octavious*cough*)
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You misread, fired the big guns, and overshot your target big time Krustation. Take a deep breath and try leaving emotion at the door next time, mmkay sweety?
Lets go through this step by step, nice and slow, shall we? I'll even color it for you.
I said: [list=1]performance in game is not a function of the price of your hardware[/list][/color]
You said (quoting me): [list=1]I never said it was.[/list][/color]
To which I replied: [list=1]No, you said: "FACT, some people do NOT have the best most expensive hardware there is. I fly with a Wingman Extreme 3D (yes, I hear the groaning). Others fly with WORSE."
So WTF are you implying? That you like cream puffs? Either way, this point is moot. I prove it wrong simply by flying with what I have. [/b][/size][/list]
Your reply: [list=1]Don't be a tard, dude. It *IS* a fact that not everybody flies with expensive and/or high quality input devices. The fact that you fly with whatever-the-hell-you-fly-with supports my statement. [/list][/color]
Not sure why you continue on this rant when I agreed with you in the first place here:
You said: [list=1It *IS* a fact that not everybody has an uber system, and it IS a fact that many many pilots have bad input devices (I've run across so many pilots that share my association with the Wingman joystick, and share my pain).[/list]
I replied: [list=1]Congrats, you learned "fact."[/list][/b][/color]
If I damaged your feelings with my sarcasm, please accept my apologies. May I offer a tissue?
Well then. Meow that I pointed out your error in interpretation, that kind of takes the steam out of your insults, meow, doesn't it?
I have had my share of scheissy equipment, and I still fly with garbage... just upgraded versions of trash. Hell, Whels is still flying with what I started out in AH with! And he's doing a damn fine job with what he has.
Feel free to call me elitist all you want. The only elitists I see in this thread are subscribers. Subscribers who do not take kindly to freeloaders dictating what is easy, what is difficult, and what is 'dweeby'.
Try again and read Whels' post.
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Wow. Just Wow.
Oct, MiniD's debating tips are showing! ;)
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You're his biggest fan aren't you?
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When I firs started playing AH I had a Wingman extream 3d and my little 500Mhz comp. I could bomb 90 to 95% of my targets fine with that stick. The only reason I stoped useing it was when the rudder started spikeing after 2 months and I had to go back to keyboard rudder but it still worked great for calibration, just sucked flying fighters witout a real rudder..
I am now useing a $30 Saitek cyborg 3d gold that is now 2 years old and still working like a charm for calibrations and right befor they changed modes I could nail my targets almost 100% unless I was being mobbed by fighters... tends to screw with calibration. :)
I'm not trying to get into an arguement here, I've already stated my opinion in some posts right after the change was made and Pyro answered and I for the most part just accepted that this is the way it will be. Although I don't seem to be able to miss at any alt now.
I just don't get the part of your posts about low end equipment being the reason you couldn't bomb right. You couldn't go much lower than the stuff I had and I even started out on AH2 with that 500Mhz comp and still managed to do it. Did I just happen to get some kind of wonder comp???
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The new calibrating is a double-edge'd sword. I like level bombing. I like it alot. I enjoy climbing to 20k+ and raining high explosive doom on enemy bases. However, I don't feel like the new calibration setup is challenging. Without the challenge of a good calibration, it's a really mundane flight. There's no skill involved anymore.
On the flipside, it's cool that more people can level bomb effeciently. I'm all for increasing the number of Buffs in the air (and giving me a reason to up a 3x20mm 109g10). I'm all for encouraging high level bombing over divebombing & NOE raids.
I just dunno if the good stuff outweighs the boredom it created for me.
edit: I do have to admit I dig the new calibration setup when flying Arado's. Makes it much easier not to waste all 3 of the bombs :)