Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: eskimo on March 29, 2001, 08:59:00 AM
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Before 2 days ago, I had never flown the 109s more than a couple of sorties a tour (Just enough frustrate myself with it.). Now that I have the hang of it, I am a big fan.
I have been flying the G-2 because... well I like Finland... I guess.
What I want to know is; what is the differencs between the 4 types we have in AH?
I know that each newer type is faster and climbs better than the previous. But how about handling.
Do the early birds turn beter?
Are they better at slow speeds?
Is compression the same in all of em?
Can any of em be ditched with 1/2 a wing missing?
Anything els worth noting?
eskimo
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hmm..from what ive read f4 and g2 should climb better than g6.
Anyway im nīt 109 expert but...
109f4 has thinner armorplates, less weight and is the most maneuverable of them. Climb is excellent even compared to late war planes. Many LW aces considered 109f4 as the best dogfighter of 109 series.
109g2 better engine. excellent climb, not quite as maneuverable as 109f, but faster.
109g6 more armor. Climb and manuverabilty has suffered a little. Climb is still very good though.
109g10 late war 109. Very powerful engine in small and aerodynamic airframe. Maneuverability is quite poor compared to early 109s but it has awesome speed and climb.
For those who know better...correct me if im wrong.
Here are my rules of thumb for 109:
-Climb in shallow angle for maximal efficiency.
-Alt is 109s best friend (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-Be careful in dives. Its better not to exceed 450mph, but if you do you can control plane with trims.
-Get close and personal. "Spray&pray" does not work.
-Its quite easy to keep your E advantage in 109 so use it. I dont personally like mixing up with cons(bad for SA). So i stick to easy vertical maneuvers and keep my E advantage. Used this way 109 is one of safest planes around. Enemy hardly ever gets opportunity to shoot back so you can control the fight at your will.
OK. as i said im not expert in 109, but i hope this helps even a little.
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Thanks,
Sounds like good advice.
eskimo
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the 109s are my favorite and probably the toughest to fly, imo.
all the 109s have compression problems. the key to flying them effectively is controlling the compression. this can be solved by having the proper stick setup. make sure all your trims are hot keyed.
Once your stick commands are set up, practice compressing and controlling the plane in all aspects of flight. Once your comfortable. Practice shooting under compression. It takes work to line up a shot. If your using 30mm wait till your under d300 to fire.
Use the MG's to ping the enemy into an effective 30mm envelope.
109s require a higher state of SA because they are not the fastest fighter in the arena. To be effective, dont use the horizontal, use the vertical planes.
The 109 can B&Z really well. It excels at this. Most importantly on the climb out. Kick on the wep and just ride the plane all the way back up to your combat altitude. Dont get suckered into low level T&B fights.
All 109s can T&B for about 3-4 hard turns but once you kill your E, your dead meat, unless there is enough seperation to climb away.
The Spiral climb is probable your best defensive weapon and once mastered you can easily turn a defensive situation into an opprotunity.
109s take discipline to fly. Patience & determination. You need to know when to fight and when to grab air. They require more pilot work load but once you get the kills its very rewarding.
The only threat I ever consider is a Spitfire. Reason being their climb performance is just as good, if not better depending on the model. And those little limey planes can do everything well "-)
Good luck and shoot me an email if you got further questions. Im very out of practice and rusty but glad to help.
K1
Flying Pigs
[This message has been edited by Karaya One (edited 04-11-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Karaya One (edited 04-11-2001).]
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S!
Agree on all parts with Karaya1.109 is a patient man's plane.When loaded with lot of patience and good line ups for shots,then You are holding the key to success in 109.
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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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Bump for EagleC
I asked the same question a few months ago, had never flown the 109.
Now it's perhaps my best ride.
eskimo
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Here's two films with me flying the 109G2. http://gandalf.totalcs.com/ahinfo/mark/g2-1.zip (http://gandalf.totalcs.com/ahinfo/mark/g2-1.zip) http://gandalf.totalcs.com/ahinfo/mark/g2-2.zip (http://gandalf.totalcs.com/ahinfo/mark/g2-2.zip)
It's hard to explain how to fly them, I feel films better show to do something and when to do it.
-SW
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Karaya, what's the advantage of a spiraling climb vs. a straight climb? Is it basically to keep the con as near as possible until you gain the needed separation to turn back or wait until he stalls? Or will the less capable climbing nme airplanes stall faster trying to spiral climb due to the lift vector orientation?
Also, the ME109 is one of the fastest planes in the arena. However, using that speed in a dive is hazardous to your health. Use it more in the horizontal to extend and then climb back up to altitude.
I think Dyana posted a similar thread not to long ago on the 109 series. There were some good posts there too.
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spiral climb forces the bandit to pull lead to get guns on target and is predicated upon him not having enough altitude or speed to pull the nose up those extra few degrees thus denying him a shot before he stalls out.
a straight vertical climb gives low e bandit a nonmaneuvering target to shoot at as it zooms up even when stalling
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sWULF saw ur movie there:-)
ill have to try the g2 someday, i flied the g10 for awhile, and believe me it does not turn as well as the g2:-)
a few comments on the movie:
what the hell were those B-17 thinking:-)......lololol
the first few kills looked cool and the climbing ability of the g2 looked awsome.
i was stuned by how the g2 turned, even with the yak at low alt, it was a high yoyo u did right......u were coming in fast, so u couldnt flat turn with him so u went up while turning then swooped down......thats a high yoyo right?
and i dont suppose vulching is ilegal in MA:-)
all in all, very very well flown.
lucky it was ur flap and not ur aileons:-)
<S>
rav
[ 08-03-2001: Message edited by: raven 8 ]
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just tried the g2 in h2h, had a good fight with an zeke(eye1111)
used that spiral climb pretty effectively, the zeke was smart enough to turn and run before he stalled
in that game outside view wre turned off, so i couldnt really see him turn away, if i did i could have turnd and chased after him i guess:-)
looking forward to fly the g2 in the future:-)
great little plane, but u have to have height advantage.
rav(messiah1)
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oh one more thing.
dont pull up late. ie, if ur already 450miles/h. dont try to follow the bandit. i did this a few times. shot below the bandit, compressed. i recovered but by that time i was all over the place. and he got me:-)
so if ur not gonna get him, pull up and make another pass.
what the heck im doing:-).............this is like my first time flying the G2, so if what i sound elementry or wrong!.......forgive me:-)
rav(messiah)
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109F-4/R1 is the key to attaining a truck load of perk points really quick. IMO it's the best turner compared to the other 109's and 109's only. Pit it against a spit or nik and it will get it's tail shot off quick, it lacks the acceleration and speed to seriously compete. BUT! I've learned you can almost always rope a Boom and Zoom plane into a turn fight because I guess they think 'Gustav' when they see the 109 icon and if they fight your fight you got'em. If they regognize you as a "Franz' all they have to do is extend and B-n-Z ya to death. Stay close to friends, hit and run when you are in crowd of bad guys.
Also seems P-51's love to scissor when caught on deck if you catch one doing this trying to evade your 109F-4 DON'T play that game just reduce speed and fly straight firing a burst everytime he passes in front of your gun sight it never fails. The P38 and F4U were my favorites though they're big targets and break easy.
I learned for the old gang at JG2 when 'Ripsnort' was CO that no matter what 109 you fly max cannon convergence should be no more than 325 and don't waste your ammo if the target is outside that setting. Unless of course the bandit's level and the pilot is AFK for a beer then go ahead and try the long shot before he gets back :)
The only other one I've used before was the 109G-10/R6 or /U4 all I can say is it's fast. First thing to do is turn off the 'combat trim' otherwise you'll end up augering. Set your trim keys to where they best work for you and use'em!
I've read that some people like to unload the MG before flight, I recommend you keep the ammo. It already has a limited ammo capacity don't make it worse, every little bit helps.
[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: Professor Fate ]
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augering means when u hit ground right?
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Why auger when combattrim on?,,,I dont ;) .
But I must admit it takes one to get the fully out of the 109,,but when you do its
deadly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I hope :D
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Originally posted by eskimo
Before 2 days ago, I had never flown the 109s more than a couple of sorties a tour (Just enough frustrate myself with it.). Now that I have the hang of it, I am a big fan.
I have been flying the G-2 because... well I like Finland... I guess.
What I want to know is; what is the differencs between the 4 types we have in AH?
I know that each newer type is faster and climbs better than the previous. But how about handling.
Do the early birds turn beter?
Are they better at slow speeds?
Is compression the same in all of em?
Can any of em be ditched with 1/2 a wing missing?
Anything els worth noting?
eskimo
109 G 10 suggestions .. eskimo
All I can add is this ... I ve flown 109 G 10 almost every minute in this Sim since 2000 when I left Fighter Ace to join AH ... two years there and three here ... and u know what ...
I M STILL LEARNING TO FLY THE 109 !!!! but ..
Does not matter how good or bad we are .. Its a plane you fall in love with , grabs you and dont let you go ... At least thats how I feel .
Suggestions huummm lets see
... learn the trimming to perfection .. it may save u or give u a kill quite a few times...
... Avoid getting in compromising situations ... Its a beauty of a plane but does not do miracles ...
... Be delicate with it ... learn how to shoot with him at deflection and using rudders ...
... Use it in vertical maneuvers .. dont even try to dogfitght with ANY plane .
... get altitude quickly .. G 10 is a high bird ... the higher , the better ...
... Go fast ... all the time (slow down for landing lol )
... Be aware of the compression ...
... Be very aggressive ... Attack Attack Attack even if u have to defend still attack.
... Learn timing and ballistic for the cannons..
... Gondolas are a big punch but they will slow u down a bit ...be aware of that.
...Be very patient .. wait for your opportunity ... dont let them taunt u ...
... Be aware advantages and disadvantages are the same ...an advantage at one point can become a disadvantage and viceversa.
... Theres no shame to ask for HELP ... G10 in pairs are much better than alone.
... Shells are made of GOLD (Cannons) ... Dont waste em ....
... Dont assume you are going to outclimb everybody in every situation ... It doesnt happen that way...
... Learn the enemy's machines strenghts and weakness(eg. LaLa at 17K is not the same as LaLa at 3 K )....
... Dont let the enemy out of sight not even one milisecond ... Learn how to flight and maneuver looking back...
... Dont repeat tactics ... ever .. what gave u a kill yesterday may get you killed today.
... Confuse , lure , deceive the enemy ... when u are away and escaping he must think you are attacking ... when u r attacking he should think u r trying to escape...
.. Be aware of the environment ... MA is NOT a safe environment .. lots of people waiting around for YOU to engage another plane ... and trust me they HATE 109's
... Shoot at enemy at point blank range .. the closest the better ...
and the most important of all ... keep the sense of humor is very important especially when getiing shoot down 12 times in a row
trust me with time , practice and patience you will get a bunch of enemy aircraft for each one you lose ...
Wishing you the best Wespe !!!
:aok :aok :aok
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havent seen comments about the 109e so ill lend my thoughts.
IRL it owned everything the RAF had at the time.
in the MA it can be tough to kill a hurri (99% of the time a hurri IIc which should be less manueverable than a mk1) but it can be done. a zeke is the only other plane that can flat out turn a 109E.
it's slow as molassas but somone not paying attention to the tan color will think you can go faster. many times you can get on their six spray a few 7.2mm's and they will think you are all over them causing them to break turn... then you have them.
its great for base defence, you can get up as fast as anything in the game. also right after gear up if you do a hard right rudder turn you will sideslip 180° real quick (usefull if a fast plane is trying to vulch you... he will not be able to turn that fast and if he does more often than not he will snap-stall into the ground)
its also great against CV planes. you'll only get 2-3 kills tops with the ammo load and those dmn blue plane's armor... but most wont even get a shot on you.
oh well another lame thought by yours truly.
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Zeke, Hurricanes, Spits (up to the IX, not sure about the XIV), N1K2. All of em out turn the 109E, as well as out-everything else it. 109E is a true hangar queen.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Zeke, Hurricanes, Spits (up to the IX, not sure about the XIV), N1K2. All of em out turn the 109E, as well as out-everything else it. 109E is a true hangar queen.
Not exectly.
109E best turner of all 109 series - it is lighest plane - and has lowest wingload.
109F turns very close to Spit V but litle worster - it still can outturn N1K and Spit9. But you need some E for turnfight too - anyway it turns great.
109G6/2 not really know.
109G10 can outturn P-51D when it is light (no pads).
Anyway 109F4 turn ratio was very close to Spit V at least in real life
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me don't think eskimo needs any help in his 109 anymore :)
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Originally posted by artik
Not exectly.
109E best turner of all 109 series - it is lighest plane - and has lowest wingload.
109F turns very close to Spit V but litle worster - it still can outturn N1K and Spit9. But you need some E for turnfight too - anyway it turns great.
109G6/2 not really know.
109G10 can outturn P-51D when it is light (no pads).
Anyway 109F4 turn ratio was very close to Spit V at least in real life
109E4 can't out turn any of the above-listed planes. I've flown the 109E4 quite a bit, I think I'm qualified to make that statement. The 109F4 doesn't turn anywhere near as well as a Spit IX, much less a Spit V. I've also flown the 109F4 quite a bit. The G-10 does appear to turn at least as well as a P-51D under some circumstances... the lighter the P-51 the less chance the G-10 can turn with it.
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But it is one of the best to swoop down from alt in mid/high speed ranges, instantly dump E and get into firing position, and then, rebuild E and climb back up.
Ofcourse, I don't think that maneuver qualifies to be mentioned in turn rate/radius comparisons though.. probably more like situational application of ACM than just a 'turn' I think..