Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Mitsu on November 18, 2004, 10:24:59 PM
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Is that plane added in new patch?
Four Ho-5 20mm cannons (fuselage*2 wing*2) 150rds each.
More powerful HA-45-21 engine.
Please add it with few perks!
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is -1b rarer than our N1K?
btw did it see action like in china, okinawa, ect?
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Originally posted by 1K3
is -1b rarer than our N1K?
btw did it see action like in china, okinawa, ect?
No, more Ki-84-I-Otsu were built than N1K2-J or three cannon La-7s. About 500 Ki-84-I-Otsu were built. 406 N1K2-Js were built. About 300 three cannon La-7s were built.
I'm not sure where it saw service mostly.
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Hold the phone here, before we do more Ki84 variants.
We've got the Spit VIII with 1,654 built,
5,663 Spit IX built and 1,084 Spit XVI built, with roughly 80 percent of those being LF variants and we don't have an LF Spit yet.
I raise my 8000 LF Spits and call your 500 Ki's
Enough is enough already :)
Give me a clipped wing LF IX/ XVI or VIII first
Dan/Slack
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no, we need p-38G or P-40N/M's... and the p-39 and ummm some russian jobbers...
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Fools, we must have a Bf109G-14!!!!!
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OK I'll take em all,
Clipped Spit LFXVIe
P38G
P39N
P40N
109G-14
Works for me :)
Dan/Slack
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bah 109g14 sucks
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The G-14 is teh ruxxor...
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couldnt agree more guppy,
more spits,
clipped wing would make my day!
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Originally posted by Karnak
No, more Ki-84-I-Otsu were built than N1K2-J or three cannon La-7s. About 500 Ki-84-I-Otsu were built. 406 N1K2-Js were built. About 300 three cannon La-7s were built.
I'm not sure where it saw service mostly.
We need to be careful when quoting "built" as opposed to saw service...........
About 300 La7 (3 x B20) saw service prior May 45...........
I dont know how many saw further service in August in Manchuria but certainly by that time there were many more "built" than 300 I'll check.
edit to check
Total La7 to
May 45....
Built 3977 In(thru) service VVS 2957 Navy 198
3 x B20 version
May 45
Built 368 In(thru) service VVS 300- (figure not exact)
Total La7 to end of 45 (end of production)
Built 6158,
Gorki (21) 4,610
Moscow (381) 1,298 (Moscow built the 3 x b20 version from late January onwards but not all of these 1298 la7's will have been 3 cannon)
Ulan Ude (99) 250 ( I have one report that some 3 cannon versions were built here but 250 is such a small total batch number the facility never really got going{Gorki and Moscow produced in batches of 100 at atime})
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Originally posted by Tilt
We need to be careful when quoting "built" as opposed to saw service...........
About 300 La7 (3 x B20) saw service prior May 45...........
I dont know how many saw further service in August in Manchuria but certainly by that time there were many more "built" than 300 I'll check.
Ah. I did not know that. Thanks for the correction.
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Guppy you seemed to have forgotten the Seafire L III. There were 3 times as many L III's produced than the IIc we have now.;)
Spitfire LF IX with clipped wings.....
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If you gave me a P40n, i'd never leave the plane. I'd have pizza delivered to it midflight.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Hold the phone here, before we do more Ki84 variants.
We've got the Spit VIII with 1,654 built,
5,663 Spit IX built and 1,084 Spit XVI built, with roughly 80 percent of those being LF variants and we don't have an LF Spit yet.
I raise my 8000 LF Spits and call your 500 Ki's
Enough is enough already :)
Give me a clipped wing LF IX/ XVI or VIII first
Dan/Slack
Here's my thoughts:
American airpower is represented a total of 22 aircraft.
Germany is represented by 17 total aircraft.
We have 5 varients of Spitfires. Plus the Brit plane set includes the Typhoon, Tempest, 3 Hurricanes, Mosquito, Boston and the Lancaster, which adds up to 13 total aircraft.
Japanese aircraft are represented by two Zeros, the D3A, the B5N and the N1K2-J (all IJN aircraft). The JAAF is represented by the Ki-61, Ki-67 and Ki-84a-I. This comes to 8 total aircraft.
Soviet aircraft consists of Two yaks, two Lavochkins and the IL-2, for a total of 5 aircraft.
Italy is represented by the C.202 and C.205. That's just 2 aircraft.
We do not have any French aircraft. No Dutch aircraft. No Romanian aircraft, and so on.
What we really need is another late-war Japanese single engine carrier bomber. Perhaps a version of the G4M medium bomber. This set could also use the J2M3 Raiden and since a second Ki-84 varient is easier to do, add that as well. This will provide a balanced Japanese plane set.
Soviet aircraft could use the Pe-2, Yak-3, I-16 and the Yak-9D.
Any Italian bomber would be welcome, and theres always the Re-2000 or Re-2002 or Re 2005 as well as the various Fiat fighters.
Any aircraft representing countries like France and Holland would be welcomed.
Once we have balanced the plane set better, then introducing other Spitfire marks would be appropriate. Likewise, another P-38 model and the P-39 could be added. Planes like the P-39 and P-63 could appear in Soviet colors, adding to that set.
There is certainly a gap in German bombers. Maybe the He 111 or Do 217 would be considered.
Sure, there were many different versions of the Spitfire and Mosquito, but these only build on sizable plane sets. Let's get things balanced and then move on to more versions of existing aircraft.
My regards,
Widewing
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OK so take that hybrid 1942 Spit IX with the E wing away and replace it with an LFIX :)
Numbers wouldn't change then and you'd have the primary Spit IX variant
Dan/Slack
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We dont need the Yak3 baecuse the Yak9U and La7 do the late war set very well.
The Yak9D is a much greater priority now.
The I16 will be great fun but what we really needed from 1941 are Yak1 and Lagg3.
Russian (usa too) early and late P39s would be welcome also.
Maybe we could have P39s in bot the US and Russian ME planesets. :)
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As much as I'd like to see LF Spits and 109G-14s, like Grun said I'd want HTC to heavily emphasize on Soviet and Japanese aircraft/vehicles for the time being.
The US RAF LW plane set has some gaping 'holes', but the VVS and IJN/IJAAF planeset has practically a big whole 'chunk' of planes missing.
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Originally posted by Widewing
Here's my thoughts:
American airpower is represented a total of 22 aircraft.
Germany is represented by 17 total aircraft.
We have 5 varients of Spitfires. Plus the Brit plane set includes the Typhoon, Tempest, 3 Hurricanes, Mosquito, Boston and the Lancaster, which adds up to 13 total aircraft.
Japanese aircraft are represented by two Zeros, the D3A, the B5N and the N1K2-J (all IJN aircraft). The JAAF is represented by the Ki-61, Ki-67 and Ki-84a-I. This comes to 8 total aircraft.
Soviet aircraft consists of Two yaks, two Lavochkins and the IL-2, for a total of 5 aircraft.
Italy is represented by the C.202 and C.205. That's just 2 aircraft.
We do not have any French aircraft. No Dutch aircraft. No Romanian aircraft, and so on.
What we really need is another late-war Japanese single engine carrier bomber. Perhaps a version of the G4M medium bomber. This set could also use the J2M3 Raiden and since a second Ki-84 varient is easier to do, add that as well. This will provide a balanced Japanese plane set.
Soviet aircraft could use the Pe-2, Yak-3, I-16 and the Yak-9D.
Any Italian bomber would be welcome, and theres always the Re-2000 or Re-2002 or Re 2005 as well as the various Fiat fighters.
Any aircraft representing countries like France and Holland would be welcomed.
Once we have balanced the plane set better, then introducing other Spitfire marks would be appropriate. Likewise, another P-38 model and the P-39 could be added. Planes like the P-39 and P-63 could appear in Soviet colors, adding to that set.
There is certainly a gap in German bombers. Maybe the He 111 or Do 217 would be considered.
Sure, there were many different versions of the Spitfire and Mosquito, but these only build on sizable plane sets. Let's get things balanced and then move on to more versions of existing aircraft.
My regards,
Widewing
It doesn't matter how many planes each country has. It matters what plane each side has and how useful it is. The US plane set is mostly '44. So they may have more planes but if tod is to be a success you would need early variants or play substitution roulette like they do in the CT. Which is a complete failure in terms of 'historical match ups'. Look what they got to do to run BoB.
Adding a French Hawk 75 or an Italian Re 2001 won’t mean anything at all to the main or to ToD or to an event / scenario.
I agree with most of your post. However, 'balancing the plane set' to me isn't so much about relative parity in the number of AC available but should be based on ToD / CT / events / scenario match ups 1st. There's not much left to do in the main. It will always be a late war arena...
Even though the US and DE have more aircraft they need quite a few more. Same with the RAF and if we all want a quality Pac experience we need more Japanese planes.
The VVS have nothing that can be used to make an eastern front theater for ToD. Even very late war a lot of planes are missing and would make a ToD set up terrible and unsustainable over a 30 day period (its still unknown if ToD 'tours' will match main tours). It would take more then just adding a plane here or a plane there in the short term.
If HTC starts building a VVS planes set they will have a long way to go just to get something that is 'playable' in terms of ToD.
2 planes that could make an impact happen to be US planes, an earlier P38 and a p39.
I can't think of 1 French, Romanian, Dutch aircraft that will add anything to the game in real terms whether it be in the main or ToD or Events. They might provide a 'kewl alternative' to the mundane main arena or a 'special attraction in some made up CT set up but they would sit there unused for the most part. Maybe an IAR-80 or IAR-81 but even then out side Ploesti or a Stalingrad (South Eastern Front) it would be a hangar queen.
IMHO
1. Add earlier US variants
(earlier p38 and p47 (C or very early D), p39 (D N or Q or all 3), B25
2. Expand the Japanese plane set
(a6m3, Ki-43, Ki-44, Betty)
3. Fill the gaps in the RAF plane set (another spit 9, Wimpy, another mossie etc...
4. Fill the small gaps in the LW plane set.
(109F-2, 190A3 or 4, 109G-14, He-111 and Do-17z)
5. Then work the hell out of the VVS. I could list my suggestions but the list would be quite long.
6. Other Nations...
Most of the planes I suggested would be all but useless in the main (except a later Spit 9 and G-14) but could add quite a bit to ToD and to Events and to the CT...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
We dont need the Yak3 baecuse the Yak9U and La7 do the late war set very well.
you're not serious... right?
I think we will have Yak-3, but not right now.
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Damn it! This thread is Ki-84-I-Otsu one!
Oops, sorry I'm drunked too much... :D
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Summary...
84-1b should take less man-hours to make, but will not be a top priority since they need to fill the "gaps".
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It can be added easily than Ki-100.
Because...the difference between 1a (1-Ko) and 1b (1-Otsu) is only the size of gas exhaust holes of 20mm cannon.
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The Ki-84-I-Otsu was a powerfully-armed variant of the plane designed primarily to knock down U.S. B-29s. The nose machine guns were changed to the same Ho-5 20mm cannon already in the wings of the Ko. The differently-sized gas exhaust ports in the nose makes distinguishing between the Ko and Otsu rather easy. Photographs testify that the type was used by the 104th. FG, but it appears that its numbers were limited.
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Wotan the only viable "french" plane I can think of are the P63 and the Yak3.
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I'd give 100 perks for a MANPAD....
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Originally posted by straffo
Wotan the only viable "french" plane I can think of are the P63 and the Yak3.
Those would be Soviet :p
Just because they have French paint and a Frenchmen at the trigger doesn't make them 'french planes'.
I would like to see all ac modelled. But to put together a 'Battle of France' plane set would require a lot of new planes and variants. I would be all for it but I don't think its realistic.
A yak 3 and would be great for NN and it would get used in the main but a yak 3 and even a p63 would really have much use in ToD or Events...
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getting off the topic of Ki84s, but....P-63 would see some good use in the MA as well. It was not a P-39...top speed was 410 at 24,000', & it's 37mm was a higher rate of fire cannon than the P-39 with with 58 or 59 rounds (sounds comprable to MK108) & 3 hard points for air-to ground things, but was it a real WW2 combat plane? Total air-to-air victorys for the P-63 in WW2 combat was 2; a Ki27 & a Ki43 in Manchuria in August 1945, IIRC.
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hmmmm ... if you want a true french plane and a well known one .... what about a Mirage IIIc ?
;)
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Originally posted by straffo
hmmmm ... if you want a true french plane and a well known one .... what about a Mirage IIIc ?
;)
Spad! and perk it!
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BUt we all know the MIrage III was designed by German engineers :D
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Originally posted by Widewing
What we really need is another late-war Japanese single engine carrier bomber.
D4Y would be a lifesaver for Special Events, and the far far future Pacific TOD.
-Sik
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Gliders. Hell - perk em.
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Why anyone asks for P63 is strange to me, heck it's likely even the Ta152 saw more combat in WW2...
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I would like to see the Ki-84-I-Ostu added...
:aok
Originally posted by straffo
Wotan the only viable "french" plane I can think of are the P63 and the Yak3.
Bloch 152 and Dewoitine D520 may not be viable but would be interesting to have....
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Why anyone asks for P63 is strange to me, heck it's likely even the Ta152 saw more combat in WW2...
hahemm a typo I thought P39 and wrote P63 ....
Soda add the MB155 for a "perked" french fighter :)
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Originally posted by straffo
hahemm a typo I thought P39 and wrote P63 ....
Soda add the MB155 for a "perked" french fighter :)
Da, tovarich, dont know why i didnt say anything, but the VVS's P-63 unit was previously an I-16 unit, not a french one (i dont know too much about french manned fighting units of the VVS, but i've only heard of them using Yarkolev equiptment)...in an RPS i'd bet the D.520 would rule the period of the Battle of France/Battle of Britain era planes...D.520, the La-7 of it's time
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I have to agree with Widewing.
We are in desperate need for soviet & Axis bombers. Yes including Italy!
While I would also like to see some additions to the US & RAF stables. The Axis currently never stand a chance compared to the US.
Mostly in terms of attack & bomber aircraft.
A good LW bomber, a Russian bomber (sorry iL2 doesn't count.) A Japanese bomber. (Betty will do if we must. Obviously I'd prefer an Emily) :)
Japanese attack aircraft would also be a huge addition to the plane set.
Our plane set screams for the ki-43, Ki-44, ki-45. Not to mention late war dive & torpedo planes.
Last, some quick Japanese varients would help fill out the planeset.
Ki-61 had 4 gun varients.
Same for ki-84.
I'd like to see a Nik varient that WASN:T 4 x 20mm.
If we can't have the planes that would put the axis on a more equal footing. Then HTC needs to find a way to give CM's control of what ord is loaded.
Does ANYONE have figures on how many bombs of each size were dropped by aircraft in WWII?
I'd really like to find some proof that US fighters were not running around in 43 with 1k bombs. That if they had bombs to spare at all they were likely 250's & 500's.
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I'd like to see a Nik varient that WASN:T 4 x 20mm.
Wasn't the N1K1 a 6-gun plane? :D
Two machine guns and four cannons?
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Mitsu, or anyone, have you found anywhere a source for the number of B29's claimed downed by pilots flying the various types thrown at them (Ki44s, Ki84s, J2Ms, etc.). I read of one pilot who claimed 4, was flying either J2M or Ki44.
Obviously theres a huge difference between claims and actual downs, as most 29s not returning to base went down somewhere on the extremely long return leg, well out of sight of the Japanese defense forces. Also Lemay did the smart thing by switching to night attacks fairly soon after Marianas-Japan operations began, cutting short encounters with ever more capable daylight interceptors.
Had the atomic bombs not achieved resolution short of invasion, I wonder if escorted daylight bomber raids might not have resumed in an effort to reduce Japanese fighter reserves prior to the invasion.
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Had the atomic bombs not achieved resolution short of invasion, I wonder if escorted daylight bomber raids might not have resumed in an effort to reduce Japanese fighter reserves prior to the invasion.
Fuel shortages, both for the planes & the pilots (the food shortage) probably would have done that job even more efficiently...LeMay was running some mid/low alt ( ~15,000' ) daylight B-29 raids in the summer of 1945, wasn't he? Maybe that was their aim. I've got a book by a pilot who was sent up to intercept one of these raid in a Ki27 (he ice-candied the crap out of a B-29 & may have slightly damaged the wax finish on the 'plane)
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Originally posted by Rasker
Mitsu, or anyone, have you found anywhere a source for the number of B29's claimed downed by pilots flying the various types thrown at them (Ki44s, Ki84s, J2Ms, etc.). I read of one pilot who claimed 4, was flying either J2M or Ki44.
Obviously theres a huge difference between claims and actual downs, as most 29s not returning to base went down somewhere on the extremely long return leg, well out of sight of the Japanese defense forces. Also Lemay did the smart thing by switching to night attacks fairly soon after Marianas-Japan operations began, cutting short encounters with ever more capable daylight interceptors.
Had the atomic bombs not achieved resolution short of invasion, I wonder if escorted daylight bomber raids might not have resumed in an effort to reduce Japanese fighter reserves prior to the invasion.
As I heard it, it wasn't interception that LeMay was working against--it was terrible results caused by extremely high winds at altitude (130+ mph), engine troubles and bombsight inaccuracy. The switch also doubled the bombload, since the climb time and power were not expended. LeMay realized that pinpoint bombing of the industrial targets could be substituted by wholesale destruction of population in the firestorms created by his techniques.
shubie
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Shubie, right you are that the main problems with high alt daylight raids were the jet stream winds, extra mechanical strain and reduced bombload. But it was the growing Japanese daylight air defense capability ensured that (unescorted, at least) lower alt raids were done at night.
Bunch, it's hard to imagine a Ki27 facing off with a B29. Doesn't that plane have fixed landing gear? He's lucky he wasn't hit with ricochet's from his mighty .30 gun(s). :)
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the unperked RAF we have now is late 42 / early 43 and not even the best models of those. I really don't understand it - we have a beefed up spit 5 that is better than the spit9 - of which we have probably the worst model possible. It should have been the other way around, a normal spit 5 to cover 1942 period and a better model spit 9 representing 1943-44 force.
The XIV and Temp are not lightly perked and only see action in special events. yet the Dora, G10, La7 are free.
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I'd like to see a D.520 eventually, although I doubt it'd be very competitive with the Spit I and 109E.
P39, early P38, B25 maybe for US.. oh, and a Sherman..
Does the LW really need anything? Other than nicer loadouts for the 190F8 and maybe the Ju-87G I can't think of anything that would even be nice for "flavour".
Japanese on the other hand.. lots of room to expand there. Ki-43, Ki-44, Ki-45.. whatever the designation for the Raiden was.. at least I think that is the right name for it. Could definately use the Betty (G4M?)
Russia... kind of amazing all we have are the 44-45 superbirds... early war russian stuff would be nice. Be good to have a LW-VVS matchup that wasn't completely dominated by the VVS.
RAF needs some kind of 1943-1944 spit for the MA, the Spit 14 fits the bill but it unfortunately perked.. in spite of the fact that newbies couldn't fly it successfully and it is about 40 mph to slow to be a new el gay 7.
I think probably those would fill in the gaps nicely for the ToD.. all hangar queens in the MA though, unless if HTC adds a new spit it is better than the spit 9 all around (which the 14, imo, isn't).
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Does the LW really need anything?
Yes but there's too much other stuff for other countries that is 'needed' more. Once those are filled the LW could use a 190A-3 or 4. The A-5 is a bit faster then the 3 or 4. The 3 in needed for NA and earlier east front.
They could use an A-6 as well (4 x mg 151/20mm)
They could use an E-7 for NA and early East front...
They could use a 109F-2 for the east because the F-4 didnt see sevice until the German were over Moscow.
They could use a 109G-14 (the G-10 pretty much covers the K-4, G-10 and G6/AS) for a late 109. (June '44 is when the G-14 saw service, it was Oct '44 for the G-10)
HT should get rid of the 110 C4/b with the DB601N engine. Only 7 were made. Its too fast for BoB, BoF, and NA. Model it with a DB601a.
They could use a Ju87B-2 for early war..
They could use an He-111, Do-17z, a 410 and a Ju-188.
I could think of quite a few more LW planes that would be 'needed' to make ToD something more then a structured CT with plane substitute roulette.
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Originally posted by straffo
hahemm a typo I thought P39 and wrote P63 ....
Soda add the MB155 for a "perked" french fighter :)
Actually, the Soviets received over 2400 P63s, and used the heck out of them as ground attack aircraft. Over 1700 were delivered via Alaska by Dec. 1944.
They were reliable, well armored, and agile at low altitudes. The 37 mm cannon and 4 .50 cal machine guns gave the bird a pretty good punch, too--but IIRC the 37 mm cannon didn't have much armor piercing capability.
shubie
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With so many P63's, how come no air-to-air kills until August '45?
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Originally posted by Rasker
With so many P63's, how come no air-to-air kills until August '45?
These were withheld from combat until the Soviets declared war on Japan. I suspect that they were reserved for just this reason. While the P-63 was no great shakes for range when compared to the P-51D and P-47N, it still offered considerably greater range than the Lavochkins and most Yak models. With two 75 gallon drop tanks, it had roughly 4 times the range of the La-7, and very similar performance. Due the greater range requirements of operating against Japan in Manchuria, I suspect they were saved for that need. However, the war ended before they saw any significant action.
My regards,
Widewing
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I see a possible problem with a Spitfire Mk VIII in particular.
It outperforms our Mk IX in almost all categories, which is already a very fine aircraft. The Mk VIII has very similar performance as the XIV.
But it's from 1943.
So, a 1943 perk ride? Not fair, but unbalancing without the perk tag.
It's just too bleeding good ;)
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I see a possible problem with a Spitfire Mk VIII in particular.
It outperforms our Mk IX in almost all categories, which is already a very fine aircraft. The Mk VIII has very similar performance as the XIV.
But it's from 1943.
So, a 1943 perk ride? Not fair, but unbalancing without the perk tag.
It's just too bleeding good ;)
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Angus,
Only on 150 Octane. On 100 Octane the Spit VIII would top out at about 335 to 340mph at sea level and about 410mph at best altitude
The Spit XIV does 358mph at sea level and 446mph at best altitude.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Actually, the Soviets received over 2400 P63s, and used the heck out of them as ground attack aircraft. Over 1700 were delivered via Alaska by Dec. 1944.
Has it not been proven that it is a myth that the Cobras were used as ground attack a/c?
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Has it not been proven that it is a myth that the Cobras were used as ground attack a/c?
About million times...
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From "Cobra Bell Aircraft Corperation 1934-46" and "Cobras Over the Tundra" it appears that deliveries of P63s didn't start until March of 45.
And it seems that the only evidence of action are the two kills claimed in the Far East near the end of the war.
Dan/Slack
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Originally posted by 1K3
you're not serious... right?
I think we will have Yak-3, but not right now.
The Yak-3 we might get someday would be like a slower but more manouverable Yak-9U, thats it, no wonderplane. It wouldnt add much to the game so its not a priority IMO.
A set of P39s or early Yaks would be much more useful to fill gaps in the planeset.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
From "Cobra Bell Aircraft Corperation 1934-46" and "Cobras Over the Tundra" it appears that deliveries of P63s didn't start until March of 45.
And it seems that the only evidence of action are the two kills claimed in the Far East near the end of the war.
Dan/Slack
P-63C deliveries started in March of '45, but over 1,300 P-63As were delivered before the end of 1944. I have a photo of dozens of P-63As in Soviet colors on the ferry field at Fairbanks, Alaska. The photo was taken in the September of 1944.
Oleg Maddox has dug up references to P-63As being flown against the Luftwaffe in late 1944, with at least one pilot named Devitaev having been shot down by ground fire in December of '44. This limited use may have been part of the Soviet's combat evaluation of the King Cobra. Two squadrons were based near Moscow in late 1944, and may have been rotated into Poland to combat test the fighter.
Maddox provides this information:
My wife is from Germany. Her uncle was a young Luftwaffe Leutnant in charge of an anti-aircraft battery during the war. When we visited Germany this past autumn (he now lives in M?hlheim a. d. Ruhr), he and I talked about some of his war experiences. He told me that in late 1944 outside of Konigsberg (Kaliningrad), his unit was attacked by a flight of P-63s at low level. When I asked him how he knew for certain that these were P-63s and not P-39s or some other type of aircraft, he said:
"Our unit was highly skilled and trained in aircraft recognition...we had to be able to identify all types of aircraft so we would not shoot at friendly planes...we had been briefed that the Russians were receiving P-63s from the Americans and we had studied photos and drawings of them. The P-63s flew over us at only about 15-20 meters that day. I thought they were Airacobras at first, but then I noticed the wing planform was different from the P-39 and I could see the half-exposed tires in the wheel wells. When one of the planes went into a steep banking turn, I could see the taller vertical fin and noticed an ADF loop antenna behind the cockpit, which had never been seen on the P-39. I know for a fact that these were Kingcobras. I even stated this in the report I filed to my command after the attack."
So, the evidence is mounting that P-63s saw limited service against the Luftwaffe. I have seen the testimony of several German pilots who believed that they encountered P-63s. One stated that the "These new Bell fighters easily climbed away from our Focke Wulfs." P-39s don't out-climb 190s. P-63s out-climb them handily. Fully fueled the P-63 can get to 15,000 ft in 3.5 minutes, which is averaging nearly 4,300 fpm!
My regards,
Widewing
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Thanks Widewing,
There's a paragraph in the Bell book that talks about the Russians refusing to accept more P63As because of a structural defect and that hundreds were grounded in Alaska and various points en route until the reinforcement could take place.
It also says they halted acceptance of P63Cs until the ventral fins were added for the increased stability and making it a better gun platform.
I wonder if that fits with what may have been discovered in the combat eval that apparently took place?
Dan/Slack
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I'd really like to see a Clipped Wing Spit myself...Another Ki-84 would be nice as well, but I don't think we'll see anything soon...or wait, maybe in 2 weeks :D
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Thanks Widewing,
There's a paragraph in the Bell book that talks about the Russians refusing to accept more P63As because of a structural defect and that hundreds were grounded in Alaska and various points en route until the reinforcement could take place.
It also says they halted acceptance of P63Cs until the ventral fins were added for the increased stability and making it a better gun platform.
I wonder if that fits with what may have been discovered in the combat eval that apparently took place?
Dan/Slack
The Soviets believed that the P-63A had a weakness where the tail assembly was attached (not unlike the early Typhoons). Bell disagreed, but reinforced the structure anyway.
I'm relatively certain that only P-63As saw service on the Eastern Front.
I know that the Soviets kept most P-63s in Siberia, probably in anticipation of declaring war on Japan.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by paulobrien6969
couldnt agree more guppy,
more spits,
clipped wing would make my day!
Let's just make a special arena for Spitfires, and ban them everywhere else. Use the vacaant spit space for cannon equipped P51's, F4U4B's, P47N's, 109G14's Raidens, 4 cannon Ki 84's, and A67M's.
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And flying midgets with flmae throwers form their arses riding lightning bolts through the sky while beiing lead by Thor into battle.