Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Brisco on November 21, 2004, 08:50:06 PM
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You might call me a connoisseur of defunct online games.
I've noticed that old Gamestorm games like Legends of Kesmai and Silent Death Online still have hundreds of followers clamoring for their games to come back today yet, I haven't seen any groups or websites shouting out (at least in recent years) for Air Warrior's return.
(Although I am not a flight sim player, I do know the dilemma involving EA and I familiar with the origins of AH, AW and WB)
Is this to say that Aces High and Warbirds have since filled the void for Air Warrior players? Would it be redundant and unneeded if Air Warrior had the possibility of coming back?
Appreciate your feedback.
Thanks!
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The fun factor in AirWarrior was much higher than it is in Aces High imo. I would give AirWarrior another try if it ever came back.
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I too liked AW far more than AH.
I think you don't see too many people askng for the return of AW because...well...we know that it just isn't going to happen.
J_A_B
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AW doesn't even hold a candle to AH in which is a better game. The difference is how people played the game in AW vs how they do now in AH.
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The difference is how people played the game in AW vs how they do now in AH.
Exactly why the fun factor was much higher imo.
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Would head back to AW in a New York minute if it came back.
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IF AW came back with a new Graphics Engine and Flight modem that could compete with AH2 and WBIII But kept the general feel and interface. I'de jump. I think It's all about the Name and The Community. It had a certian feeling I Haven't felt since Gamestorm Died. Even AWMV didn't feel right and it was AWIII on EA. No maor changes where made to it. I think If HTC made some minor changes to the AH2 interface like scores people you last shot and people you last shot. chat like in the OC. Uncapturable fields with some Nutral Fields = no more ending the war. and reneamed the game "Air Warrior IV or Air Warrior:Aces High" threw in a PAC and a ETO Areana it would probably do the trick. But I doubt HTC would ever do it. It would be like a slap in the face to Hitech and every one that worked on it to take the AW name. If AW came back without a major overhual it would fail in about a month or two.
IMHO unless some one is serously going to bring back AW it's a mute point. leave the dead in the grave.
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AH (at least) has continued to develop in a direction that AW would have wished to go.............
Whilst differences are definable and their ramifications obvious the broad spread of development into better graphics, more rides, better terrains is one that can be seen as a continual development in online flight combat sims thru the 90's into the 00's.
Some of the similarities are anachronistic them selves..........
We still drop 1 batch of drunks to capture..............
The war is still (mainly) airfield agin airfield.................
Strat models are still very similar (micro and macro)........................
Strangely development advances to one side the key differences related to how folk communicate and inter relate.
AH celebrates the winner, AW shamed the loser.
AW ready rooms and mission briefing rooms were more suited to private squad environments they became chat rooms infact (the door could be locked).
Score, perks and ranking seems to count for more in the AH community. (probably because the AW score system always seemed broke and folk liked it that way)
(If we can stand a gross generalisation)I believe the average level of maturity of the average AH player is lower than was found in AW. But I believe this is not a game function.........its simply a result of growing access to the genre...... it would be the same for AW if it were here now.
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I seriously prefer the flight model in AH than I ever did in AW - including Full Realism. In AW, the planes flew "on rails." Here, in AH, I get more of the sensation of lift, drag, etc. And, the graphics in AH (open beta) definitely were a step up from AW at the time.
Tilt has it right. If AW came back today, the game would NOT have the same community that it once did many years ago.
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For me Aces High filled the void AW created LONG before AW actually expired.
I also have to say I find it a bit amusing to see some say that AW was more fun when I find the current AH "game" and online community a literal clone of AW (in it's last days from 1997 on up).
Nostalgia must come with rose colored glasses for some... :)
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Would LOVE to see a Euro and Pac arena in AH, theres enough people playing AH for it.:)
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AW3
Good gawd ya'll
What is it good for...
Absolutely nothing....
"hum it to the tune of WAR"
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AW was a lot more fun... period.
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AH is indisputably better software.
AW was indescribaly better in every other way.
I'd like to see AW back.
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Which AW are we talking about? RR was more fun than FR (just because of the numbers involved IMHO) AW AOL was probably at its prime and the most fun... AW EA was a mixture of gang-bangs and 40K P38J hunt between VMPR and NYLON. Anyone remember the gosh awful Large ETO maps??? It retired about half the user base... Maps and "action" have a lot to do with a game. Also I know most won’t admit it but being a BZ sucked near the end as both the CZ and AZ were allergic to fighting each other... (certainly debatable but...)
Honestly latter years of AW game play was just as bad as in AH currently. The main difference was that they were smaller hordes because of a smaller user base. You had a reasonably better chance of getting a good fight in before being jumped by 10 guys...
In addition a noob had no real chance against the hard core vets that dominated the latter years. One of the biggest problems we all used to lament about was the lack of fresh blood-from a user base point of view.
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The kill macro's were fun though I will admit, names instead of numbers was a nice map feature...
Back then you could talk to your buddies and remember the great fights we had over the carrier lex and hornet in big pac, now we just have numbers to talk about... but those are very measley things... To resurrect AW would take a million dollars and a year, for a product that is out of date graphics engine wise and a userbase that was vaporised by EA...
IKON
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I also have to say I find it a bit amusing to see some say that AW was more fun when I find the current AH "game" and online community a literal clone of AW (in it's last days from 1997 on up).
Westy
Honestly latter years of AW game play was just as bad as in AH currently. The main difference was that they were smaller hordes because of a smaller user base. You had a reasonably better chance of getting a good fight in before being jumped by 10 guys...
HUN
I would agree generally with both sentiments. AH is becoming more and more like the "Gamestorm Big Pork" arena. Which is sad for me since that was the main reason I left AW for AH in the first place. IMO though, it is still easier to find a good fight in AH than was the case in the last year or so of Gamestorm AW. The hoards are bigger, but the action is more concentrated so each side can't totally hide in a corner and milkrun for tours at a time. It does take a little work and a good eye on the map, and a country change if needed to have consistant fun (for what I consider fun). Still worth the $15/month in the face of scattered competiton with their own significant issues.
Doesn't compare remotely to SVGA (DOS) era AW though (nor did Gamestorm). Not just nostalgia, but the gameplay (with the centrals/neutrals concept) was superior, IMO and the attitude more focused on the A2A fight. Land grab was a means to the end - get closer to the A2A fighting.
Charon
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Originally posted by Westy
For me Aces High filled the void AW created LONG before AW actually expired.
I also have to say I find it a bit amusing to see some say that AW was more fun when I find the current AH "game" and online community a literal clone of AW (in it's last days from 1997 on up).
Nostalgia must come with rose colored glasses for some... :)
Yup....
I flew AW from 1993 to 9/99 when I came pver to the AH beta....
All the "problems" you see here had already surfaced in AW at the time. Back in the "good old days" AH that is, this was far and away the best & toughest place to fly. AH started to go down hill when they went to the "easy mode" FM in 1.4. Basically it dumbed the game down so some of the "bury the stick in the belly" guys would hang around instead of scooting back to AW or WB's. I think the AH2 FM is much much better overall...but not as good as the original.
The primary "problem" now is simply #'s related with the exception of the "hit bubble" restrictions AW had for face shots...
Tilt has it right. If AW came back today, the game would NOT have the same community that it once did many years ago
Yup....
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AW was a lot of fun.My support remains with AH,I enjoy it immensley,even tho I'm driving myself towards a complete breakdown,trying to get more performance squeezed out of my puter:D
IronDog
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Wb's sucks :p
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You know... You guys are clinging to a dead dream.
First of all, and lets be frank... AW - All versions were buggy and night-mareish on even the meanest fast computers around.. The AH software is far ahead of AW in every way.
Kesmai and its later iterations never kept with the times and kept the product modern... It fell more and more behind with each release. AH may yet run into the same problem as even today it requires a hell of a computer to run a graphics engine that isn't exactly blowing anybody's socks off...
HT says the engine can do a lot more though, and I'm willing to be patient and see if he's right.
But lets get to the Game Play issue... It seems there is a common agreement in this thread that the game play and the players in AW were far superior in fun-factor and community..
Yes - Absolutely... That is 100% true. HOWEVER, it will never happen again, and this is why;
Back in those days, Internet (or any other form of multiplayer) was a niche.. Only a very limited audience... Today every game is internet playable... The audience is huge.. So no longer to we see only the most dedicated flight simmers in the game.. You now have simmers, FPSers (quake), little kids, old men, pilots and nonpilots all looking for their own unique brand of good time.
The only way to reproduce what you found in AW is to find a like minded squad, and ally with other like minded squads and forget all the 'quake' pilots.
If AW came back today it would be bloat-ware and we all know it, so lets just enjoy what we have.
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I second that.
Originally posted by Elfie
Exactly why the fun factor was much higher imo.
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I really liked AW..flew RR most if not all the time..Started I think
with AWII .. not sure ..was about 5 yrs ago... I would have to say though AW at that time couldn't hold a candle to AH... and after EA treatment of AW I not go back with EA as the owner.. hehehe I almost never post in here but read often.. so you hit my button on this one :)
RAM
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Ya BUT, AW was NEVER about amazing graphics, so that point is moot. While they were pushing for superior graphics just before it folded, graphics was second to the game promoting pure fun. Everything staff or GAs did, me included, was promote *fun* at every turn. The more the players had fun, the more the community bonded, even during scuffling.
It was one of the first games where the players didn't keep everything that made game play more winable as secrets. In those days, gamers kept what kept them on top secrets. In AW almost everyone helped everyone else get better performance, and with better performance fun was there.
AW, if it returned, would never be the same game without the people who ran it behind it again. The game didn't make itself, it was the way it was setup to be played is what made it fun, and those people deserve just as much credit as the files for the game itself.
Without those people Like Kelton, Blue Baron, Moggy, Mage, Culero, Grey Eagle etc.. that game would have been just another sim when the others came to be. You had many minds behind it's concept, with the focus on FUN first, graphics second.
I don't think AW's return would be much more then just another sim unless it was setup the same exact way, with improvments.
The only thin AW needed at the time was a new graphics engine, which was being built when it was shot dead by EA.suck .
Owell, life goes on. AH is the King Biscuit now, everyone needs to get on the "have fun, promote fun" bandwagon.
Anim
Originally posted by KurtVW
You know... You guys are clinging to a dead dream.
First of all, and lets be frank... AW - All versions were buggy and night-mareish on even the meanest fast computers around.. The AH software is far ahead of AW in every way.
Kesmai and its later iterations never kept with the times and kept the product modern... It fell more and more behind with each release. AH may yet run into the same problem as even today it requires a hell of a computer to run a graphics engine that isn't exactly blowing anybody's socks off...
HT says the engine can do a lot more though, and I'm willing to be patient and see if he's right.
But lets get to the Game Play issue... It seems there is a common agreement in this thread that the game play and the players in AW were far superior in fun-factor and community..
Yes - Absolutely... That is 100% true. HOWEVER, it will never happen again, and this is why;
Back in those days, Internet (or any other form of multiplayer) was a niche.. Only a very limited audience... Today every game is internet playable... The audience is huge.. So no longer to we see only the most dedicated flight simmers in the game.. You now have simmers, FPSers (quake), little kids, old men, pilots and nonpilots all looking for their own unique brand of good time.
The only way to reproduce what you found in AW is to find a like minded squad, and ally with other like minded squads and forget all the 'quake' pilots.
If AW came back today it would be bloat-ware and we all know it, so lets just enjoy what we have.
Originally posted by KurtVW
You know... You guys are clinging to a dead dream.
First of all, and lets be frank... AW - All versions were buggy and night-mareish on even the meanest fast computers around.. The AH software is far ahead of AW in every way.
Kesmai and its later iterations never kept with the times and kept the product modern... It fell more and more behind with each release. AH may yet run into the same problem as even today it requires a hell of a computer to run a graphics engine that isn't exactly blowing anybody's socks off...
HT says the engine can do a lot more though, and I'm willing to be patient and see if he's right.
But lets get to the Game Play issue... It seems there is a common agreement in this thread that the game play and the players in AW were far superior in fun-factor and community..
Yes - Absolutely... That is 100% true. HOWEVER, it will never happen again, and this is why;
Back in those days, Internet (or any other form of multiplayer) was a niche.. Only a very limited audience... Today every game is internet playable... The audience is huge.. So no longer to we see only the most dedicated flight simmers in the game.. You now have simmers, FPSers (quake), little kids, old men, pilots and nonpilots all looking for their own unique brand of good time.
The only way to reproduce what you found in AW is to find a like minded squad, and ally with other like minded squads and forget all the 'quake' pilots.
If AW came back today it would be bloat-ware and we all know it, so lets just enjoy what we have.
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I'm sorry, Mage was an A-hole.
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Originally posted by RookieCAF
I'm sorry, Mage was an A-hole.
I'll second that with added emphasis.
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Someone posted a picture of him on teh interweb years back and I made a dartboard for our squad room. My true feelings I can not expound on here as it will lead to the ol ban stick being used.
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Aw was like your first home you knew.
or
First good squad you were in that was really special.
Everything after that just is never quite the same.
And as the saying goes.
You can never go home again.
Even if it came back.
It just wouldnt be the same.
the mindset alone has changed so much.
Anyone else remember when the calls of "Bingo Ammo" or Bingo Fuel" ment something?
Was like a code of honor where if the person otherwise gave you a good fight and you saw that call you let him go.
With a and a "good fight"
People would stay out of a 1v1
Rarely if ever see that anymore.
I remember once when I just started getting halfway decent in the P38 one flight where I ended up fighting one after the other Cz.
Musta been in "the zone" or something cause each time they came back I managed to shoot em down. Hadta have 7-8 kills. the last 3 while trying to RTB.
I remember calling out "I just wanna go home and land!"
the responce I got was "go ahead and land qg123 good fights"
How often you see a show of class like that now ?
Or people would intentionally loose alt so as to enguage you in a co alt fight.
Or when seeing you up from a base let you get a bit of alt so as to have at least a semi fair fight
It just isnt the same
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Posting this in here and the replies made are a serious breach of respect for the people that own/work for this game. This is Oclub material.
That said, I think allot of you guys are comparing this with nostalgia which isn't fair. AW was great being the first MMOFS, but was in no way comparable to the software that is AH. The company and people that were AW by and large sucked.(not knockin the community)
New maps every 2 years or so? Fix a flight model by goofing it worse? (P-47 for example). Big invisible armored sheilds out in front of your airplane? New aircraft? HA!
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Originally posted by RookieCAF
I'm sorry, Mage was an A-hole.
Originally posted by Lizard3
I'll second that with added emphasis.
You got a third here.
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Originally posted by Lizard3
Posting this in here and the replies made are a serious breach of respect for the people that own/work for this game. This is Oclub material.
That said, I think allot of you guys are comparing this with nostalgia which isn't fair. AW was great being the first MMOFS, but was in no way comparable to the software that is AH. The company and people that were AW by and large sucked.(not knockin the community)
New maps every 2 years or so? Fix a flight model by goofing it worse? (P-47 for example). Big invisible armored sheilds out in front of your airplane? New aircraft? HA!
I dissagree. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the folks that run this show just for the simple fact they allow discussion of other games here. UNLIKE AW where simply discussing other games could get you in trouble. In fact I beleive it was in their TOS not to discuss other games.
HTC shows real class in not following that lame practice.
Loved AW, hated the way they ran it alot of times.
But even if it were to come back I doubt I'd return to it. If for no other reason then the way HTC staff runs this show.
even if there are times I dont agree with it.
I respect it.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
You got a third here.
That gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. IMHO Mage did nothing but plunge the game into even more suckitude than it was..
Oops, I better shut up...
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
Ya BUT, AW was NEVER about amazing graphics, so that point is moot.
If thats what you thought my point was, you need to learn to read more carefully.
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I think the biggest reason people want AW or would Like to see it back was the atmosphere and community. And to be honest there is no patch for that, specially the community part. nothing HTC can do about the fact that the Comunity is degrading to the level of Counter Strike. I like the game. even with the existing interface and web sites and message boards it does not have the atmosphere that aw had but Game wise AH2 is 10 times better then any of the air warriors could ever dream to be specially since aw was running code that went back to 87. the commuinty is just shot, sigh of the times as more kids are getting on the internet with no respect for others. Most people feel becuase no one knows who they are and where they are they can do what ever they want without worrying bout some one droping by and kicking they're arse.
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Well, depends on what level you delt with Mage. Maybe you didn't KNOW him.
Mage just didn't have much tolerance for constant aimless sniveling from the same people all the time. He also didn't MAKE the policies for the company, he enforced them.
Besides, he wasn't alone, as I mentioned. Most people who KNOW Mage, respect him.
Players who dished him out crap, got crap back. He was a bit of a hardliner though.
Originally posted by Lizard3
I'll second that with added emphasis.
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He lost me when he dicked around with arena settings to favor his friends. Nuff said. He is no great loss from the community.
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If AH had the mix of the fun eliment of AW to go with their unbelievable dedication to upgrades and patches, this game would be totally unbeatable.
Quite frankly, *IMO* there is a LOT more snively whinning in AH, more whinning means less fun for you and others.
No sim I know can hold any stick to HTC production of a sim. Relentless working for perfection is the HTC/AH trade mark.
All I am saying is, and someone said before me several times, AH is superior in updates and graphics to AW. leeps and bounds.
But IMO AH hasn't reached the level of fun as AW. Probably because it's more techincally based. But it's evolving and in time, AH will surpase anything AW was, fun wise.
The two games differ in that way. One has more updates and constantly evolving graphics. AW graphics basically blew, because they didn't keep up with the times, but it was more fun,..... to *me*.
No one here is knocking HTC or AH. I see that as some people in the over-protective mode. That's a good thing, believe it or not. Over-protectivness means attachment, contentment, and dedication.
OTOH there is no, and will be no competition here, because Aw is dead and gone for ever.
I think what people are saying is, a few more steps towards fun and community and this game will become unstoppable. Even to more
superior graphics like "Lock-on" and "IL2". But both them games, as games,... blow. A good example of graphics ain't everything.
>serious breach of respect for the people that
>own/work for this game.
Sorry, but to be honest, that is over-protective mode working over time and that statement is pure nonsense. If it were true we wouldn't be here at all.
~A
Originally posted by Lizard3
Posting this in here and the replies made are a serious breach of respect for the people that own/work for this game. This is Oclub material.
That said, I think allot of you guys are comparing this with nostalgia which isn't fair. AW was great being the first MMOFS, but was in no way comparable to the software that is AH. The company and people that were AW by and large sucked.(not knockin the community)
New maps every 2 years or so? Fix a flight model by goofing it worse? (P-47 for example). Big invisible armored sheilds out in front of your airplane? New aircraft? HA!
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Originally posted by KurtVW
If thats what you thought my point was, you need to learn to read more carefully.
That happened to AW and in AW wasn't mages fualt or was even in his power. So the blame lies further up the food chain from mage.
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Originally posted by RookieCAF
I'm sorry, Mage was an A-hole.
I'm sure he has a high opion of you to. I know I do now.
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BZZZZZZT!!! Wrong!
can you say "shallow"?
That's how many players in that community interpreted to be because the settings didn't fall within *their* OWN liking.
Kinda like the stupid CZ Consperocy crapola. You must have been part of that crowd. I was BZ and never fell for the CZ Consperocy junk.
You will NEVER please everyone in producing games. HTC has the same problems. much like any other game maker.
Mage didn't please you, that's nothing shocking or new.
~A
Originally posted by RookieCAF
He lost me when he dicked around with arena settings to favor his friends. Nuff said. He is no great loss from the community.
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>nothing HTC can do about the fact that the
>Comunity is degrading to the level of Counter
> Strike.
That is sorta true. IMO of course.
Originally posted by Mayhem
I think the biggest reason people want AW or would Like to see it back was the atmosphere and community. And to be honest there is no patch for that, specially the community part. nothing HTC can do about the fact that the Comunity is degrading to the level of Counter Strike. I like the game. even with the existing interface and web sites and message boards it does not have the atmosphere that aw had but Game wise AH2 is 10 times better then any of the air warriors could ever dream to be specially since aw was running code that went back to 87. the commuinty is just shot, sigh of the times as more kids are getting on the internet with no respect for others. Most people feel becuase no one knows who they are and where they are they can do what ever they want without worrying bout some one droping by and kicking they're arse.
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Originally posted by Mayhem
I'm sure he has a high opion of you to. I know I do now.
Like I care what anyone who wears a Damned Tag in their handle thinks about me :rolleyes:
Spell Check Is Your Friend.
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
BZZZZZZT!!! Wrong!
*snip mage shaft polishing*
Mage didn't please you, that's nothing shocking or new.
~A
Time to stop swinging from his short hairs I think.
I bet you started on AOL didn't you?
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Vise-versa too.
;-)
~A
Originally posted by RookieCAF
Like I care what anyone who wears a Damned Tag in their handle thinks about me :rolleyes:
Spell Check Is Your Friend.
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Originally posted by RookieCAF
Like I care what anyone who wears a Damned Tag in their handle thinks about me :rolleyes:
Spell Check Is Your Friend.
Looks like you don't really care what any one thinks about you and you wounder what happened to aw and why the AH community isn't what it should be. This explains your problem with Mage to. You know HL2 Comes with CS source Might want to pick it up.
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Did I mention anything about the AH Community? I don't think so. Its a bit too PC and AOL-ish, but the game has potential. Technically its leagues ahead of the old stuff, but its still the same game. Only with alot more dweebs.:(
I abhor Counterstrike, I bet you like it.
You have no idea what my problem with Mage is/was so you may as well shut it because I'm not sharing it with you. Its dead and buried because the game nor the community will be back, regardless of your martyr complex.
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BZZZZZT! Wrong assumption again.
I started before AOL, but quit because my 486 wouldn't handle it, and i wasn't about to afford that per hour crap. it was short lived.
It's when I got my new P120 and that awsome Windows 3.1 that really charged me up. Then AW went to AOL.
But Mage caught blame for many things that were NOT his doing. Obviously you didn't know him well at all, nor the structure of command there back then in Kesmai. Obviously you carry resentment for something you didn't understand.
Maybe I should just stay clear of your post, you're starting to irritate me. The unknowing have that effect on me.
;-)
~A
Originally posted by RookieCAF
Time to stop swinging from his short hairs I think.
I bet you started on AOL didn't you?
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~A
Originally posted by RookieCAF
Did I mention anything about the AH Community? I don't think so. Its a bit too PC and AOL-ish, but the game has potential. Technically its leagues ahead of the old stuff, but its still the same game. Only with alot more dweebs.:(
I abhor Counterstrike, I bet you like it.
You have no idea what my problem with Mage is/was so you may as well shut it because I'm not sharing it with you. Its dead and buried because the game nor the community will be back, regardless of your martyr complex.
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Don't assume what I do and don't know. Just because I don't like Your Nancy Boy doesn't mean I don't share the same sentiment for others at Kesmai / Gamestorm.
Don't get irritated, try some Gold Bond in your shorts or something ;) :rofl
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AW is nothing but a memory and will always be. The game had some really good ideas about allowing as much difficulty/realism as you wanted to keep the game fun.
I will keep with me until I get alzheimers jumping into a B17 with squad mates (and anyone else around willing) to gun a bombing raid or a 'death star' run! Going on jabo runs that were always suicide, but not really minding. Taking a field in 5 min with a coordinated strike! Being 5:1 outnumbered, but still fighting on and sometimes surviving! Part of that fun was the sqad, which was much more organized than most I see today. Of course flying with SnowMan, Tequila Chaser, Rusty Razor, Drano, Wrongway, Kitty, and TinMan helped. Also, there was much more cooperation between squads too.
Try telling kids these days that sort of thing and they will never believe you!! Personally, I see hope for AH. But then, my eyesight is not as good as it used to be.
Regards,
Malta
(p.s. Mage never caused me any problems, but then I was not a butt head)
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AW was a community that built itself up over time, and the game tried to keep up.
AH has the game, and the community is building itself up.
That does not mean that the AH community isn't good. There are some fantastic people here. The AW crowd just grew together, through the garbage, through the 256 color, through the newness of multiplayer and into the mass market. There is a bond that formed, nothing personal to anyone who didn't form with it, in 8 or 10 years this AH community will be loud and strong and pining the old days before virtual reality games put you really into the seat and made you throw up with the turbulence because you ate that last burrito before squad night.
AW was never about the graphics, and was never about the realism. The fact that so many people attack anyone who brings up AW with rants of "game sucked" "flew on rails" really missed the point of what the game means to some people. That's not a bad thing, but it is what it is. It is not unlike 2 mid 40s guys walking into a coffee shop, after not seeing each other for a couple of years, and just looking at each other, and saying something like "bannana soup" and both start rolling on the floor laughing. No one is going to think that was funny, unless they were there. Try and explain it, and the just won't get it. It's like my wife not understanding that I really really do like the 10 year old Lazy Boy, and Yes, I know the new one has a cup holder, but the old one just....well....I don't know, It just fit's my butt or something. The new is great, but sometimes you want familiarity, you want memories, and you want the kinship that only time, not clever graphics, can build.
This game has tools and features we only drooled thinking about in AW. Unfortunately, experiencing the meager turnouts in Rangoon scenario just reminds me that the really good stuff took effort and imagination. That is lacking here, simply because the crowd didn't "grow up" with all the goodies. Our events and immersion came from the comraderie of a full blown mission, the chatter, preperation, effort, planning, map building and all the other things the game couldn't provide.
Now, the old school and new kids really need to take the tools that are in front of us, and make the game what we want. We tried to tell AW that we didn't need gimicks, we needed unbugged maps, that's all, nothing really more. There are a great many who think the Game designers can build the community, but they can't, and frankly, I don't want them to, it wouldn't be ours.
If there was one single thing I would ask for, it would be the lockable briefing room. And that really isn't a formal request, because frankly, with all the tools at our disposal, there are ways to work around that. But once the old gang from AW AND AH get together and really start ramping up the reason we fly to begin with, the game will change.
I'm back in scenario mode, MA is just practice for events as far as I'm concerned. But they won't be nearly as much fun if as many people as possible don't participate. And, a few years from now, as the new kids stream into AH9.5, we all will beat them into oblivion for coming in to "OUR" game and daring to critique what they don't know anything about.
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Great post ROC. Really ;-)
~A
Originally posted by ROCrats
AW was a community that built itself up over time, and the game tried to keep up.
AH has the game, and the community is building itself up.
That does not mean that the AH community isn't good. There are some fantastic people here. The AW crowd just grew together, through the garbage, through the 256 color, through the newness of multiplayer and into the mass market. There is a bond that formed, nothing personal to anyone who didn't form with it, in 8 or 10 years this AH community will be loud and strong and pining the old days before virtual reality games put you really into the seat and made you throw up with the turbulence because you ate that last burrito before squad night.
AW was never about the graphics, and was never about the realism. The fact that so many people attack anyone who brings up AW with rants of "game sucked" "flew on rails" really missed the point of what the game means to some people. That's not a bad thing, but it is what it is. It is not unlike 2 mid 40s guys walking into a coffee shop, after not seeing each other for a couple of years, and just looking at each other, and saying something like "bannana soup" and both start rolling on the floor laughing. No one is going to think that was funny, unless they were there. Try and explain it, and the just won't get it. It's like my wife not understanding that I really really do like the 10 year old Lazy Boy, and Yes, I know the new one has a cup holder, but the old one just....well....I don't know, It just fit's my butt or something. The new is great, but sometimes you want familiarity, you want memories, and you want the kinship that only time, not clever graphics, can build.
This game has tools and features we only drooled thinking about in AW. Unfortunately, experiencing the meager turnouts in Rangoon scenario just reminds me that the really good stuff took effort and imagination. That is lacking here, simply because the crowd didn't "grow up" with all the goodies. Our events and immersion came from the comraderie of a full blown mission, the chatter, preperation, effort, planning, map building and all the other things the game couldn't provide.
Now, the old school and new kids really need to take the tools that are in front of us, and make the game what we want. We tried to tell AW that we didn't need gimicks, we needed unbugged maps, that's all, nothing really more. There are a great many who think the Game designers can build the community, but they can't, and frankly, I don't want them to, it wouldn't be ours.
If there was one single thing I would ask for, it would be the lockable briefing room. And that really isn't a formal request, because frankly, with all the tools at our disposal, there are ways to work around that. But once the old gang from AW AND AH get together and really start ramping up the reason we fly to begin with, the game will change.
I'm back in scenario mode, MA is just practice for events as far as I'm concerned. But they won't be nearly as much fun if as many people as possible don't participate. And, a few years from now, as the new kids stream into AH9.5, we all will beat them into oblivion for coming in to "OUR" game and daring to critique what they don't know anything about.
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Originally posted by Mayhem
That happened to AW and in AW wasn't mages fualt or was even in his power. So the blame lies further up the food chain from mage.
Mayhem,
I have no idea why you quoted me in this post... I was addressing animal and my post had NOTHING to do with mage.
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I'm only irritated in a way I can't believe I am still reading your post. Worse yet, I am replying to them,.......My bad, shame on me,..... bad Animal,... bad bad Animal ;-)
Originally posted by RookieCAF
Don't assume what I do and don't know. Just because I don't like Your Nancy Boy doesn't mean I don't share the same sentiment for others at Kesmai / Gamestorm.
Don't get irritated, try some Gold Bond in your shorts or something ;) :rofl
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I got you're point in your post. I was making a comment that graphics, while wished to be better, was never what made the game. No offense intended. ;-)
~A
Originally posted by KurtVW
Mayhem,
I have no idea why you quoted me in this post... I was addressing animal and my post had NOTHING to do with mage.
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Originally posted by KurtVW
Mayhem,
I have no idea why you quoted me in this post... I was addressing animal and my post had NOTHING to do with mage.
Sorry kurt I probably Hit the wrong link on the wrong post . That wasn't even suppose to have a quote in it.
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
I'm only irritated in a way I can't believe I am still reading your post. Worse yet, I am replying to them,.......My bad, shame on me,..... bad Animal,... bad bad Animal ;-)
A KILL HAS BEEN RECORDED :rofl
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~A
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Who could not love this? :D
(http://www.most-wanted.org/main/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Bokill.jpg)
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lol ;) 7.5 G's and no black out? You RR/halftime duhweeb!
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It proves the point though....
Graphics save a game the same way a new font saves a book.....
It doesn't.
It's the story; the "reader experience" that counts.
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HUN, that pic brings a tear to my eye:D
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AS I said above.... I don't post often but I think after reading
some of the responses to this thread that in general.. and I mean in general... the over all quality of the SIM community has gone down.. at least in the the AH SIM. I'm not speaking of ability and
kill ratios ( I can't as I'm pretty bad). I'm speaking of the nastiness that pervades these boards and the MA in general !
RAM
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Originally posted by Stang
AW doesn't even hold a candle to AH in which is a better game. The difference is how people played the game in AW vs how they do now in AH.
AW was the better game out of the two while AH was the better sim.
ack-ack
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With relaxed realism included, I'd agree AKAK, but I only flew a couple sorties in RR in 3 years of AW so I'm not iin the best spot to judge it as a whole...
But AW did have the greatest sentence ever recorded in the history of the English language: A kill has been recorded. :D
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I sure miss the AW Korean arena:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
But Mage caught blame for many things that were NOT his doing. Obviously you didn't know him well at all, nor the structure of command there back then in Kesmai. Obviously you carry resentment for something you didn't understand.
And I'll second that.
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Thanks for the screenie HUN! It brought back MANY memories. I note that it was in 2D also... which I always played because of the clarity, no matter how powerful my machine was.
ROFL... the G-meter... pulling 7.5 Gs in RR made flying in FR a real steep learning curve.
I think that I would go back to AW in a heartbeat. AH is superior in every way but one: game play. Are we ever going to see the Tour of Duty Arena, or is it no longer a possibility?
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I miss the jeep and truck races we used to have at N86 or the jeep jumping contest over the bridges.
ack-ack
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If AW did come back, it would have to be the one we knew and loved. Otherwise it would be just another flight sim. Subtle things like seeing the guys name who is in the room, the way AW did it, opposed to how AH does it seems to make a big difference to me. In AW it felt as though thet were in the room..in here...I dont know..it just doesnt.
Of all the other games out there Ive tried, AH does seem the closest to how AW was though. The addition of briefing rooms, harder structures and more damage downtime of structures of 1/2hr like AW was would help as well.