Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Boroda on November 22, 2004, 12:14:41 PM
-
Is it in the news in the West?
I am really sorry that Miko2d isn't here :(
-
I was just ready to post a link to the story comparing it to the Florida 2000 debacle.
Whats your take on it?
-
no news except the peterson trial being delayed a week.
You guys in russia know about the peterson case, dont you?
-
russian president callin there election win convincing, that it?
-
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139229,00.html
-
I am afraid that one bastard with orange scarf will start a civil war there.
I already advised my friends and relatives there to stay at home and not to go at any "political demostrations".
We have seen this "democratic" political technology work well in Yugoslavia (where Miloshevich won the elections but had to surrender to "democratic opposition") and in Georgia.
I really love when loosers declare that "any result other then we win" is illegal.
"When someone speaks about democracy - I always want to know in who's favour". (c) Lenin.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
I am afraid that one bastard with orange scarf will start a civil war there.
I already advised my friends and relatives there to stay at home and not to go at any "political demostrations".
We have seen this "democratic" political technology work well in Yugoslavia (where Miloshevich won the elections but had to surrender to "democratic opposition") and in Georgia.
I really love when loosers declare that "any result other then we win" is illegal.
"When someone speaks about democracy - I always want to know in who's favour". (c) Lenin.
Well apparently foreigner observers disagree with the election results too. I'm just guessing that corruption was so embedded in the old Soviet Union that it becomes quite acceptable in a democratic society as well?
A prominent group of foreign observers said Monday the vote did not meet international democratic standards.
The joint mission — representing the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (search), the Council of Europe, the European Parliament and NATO — said they observed abuse of state resources in favor of the prime minister, who has the support of the outgoing president Leonid Kuchma (search) and the government of Russia, Ukraine's powerful neighbor.
The observer group, which had denounced abuses in the election's first round, said authorities had failed to fix the flaws.
"With an even heavier heart than three weeks ago, I have to repeat the message from the first round: This election did not meet a considerable number of international standards for democratic elections," said Bruce George, the team's leader.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Well apparently foreigner observers disagree with the election results too. I'm just guessing that corruption was so embedded in the old Soviet Union that it becomes quite acceptable in a democratic society as well?
So - you mean that Yanukovich had to win 75% vs 25%?
European Parliament, OSCE and especially NATO are no doubt the most trusted organisation in the field of forcing "democracy" nessesary to you-know-whom.
IMHO, any imaginary "violation" at the election is not worth starting a civil war. Half of my family lives in Ukraine, mostly in Western part, in Chernovtsy (former Austro-Hungarian Empire, Romania before 1940), and I want them to stay alive.
BTW, Commonwealth and Eastern-European observers found some violations, but declared that they were minor and couldn't affect the election results.
-
BTW, Rip, can you please give me a link to the text you quoted?
-
I bet Al Gore and John Kerry are behind all of this!!!!
:D
-
Originally posted by Boroda
So - you mean that Yanukovich had to win 75% vs 25%?
European Parliament, OSCE and especially NATO are no doubt the most trusted organisation in the field of forcing "democracy" nessesary to you-know-whom.
IMHO, any imaginary "violation" at the election is not worth starting a civil war. Half of my family lives in Ukraine, mostly in Western part, in Chernovtsy (former Austro-Hungarian Empire, Romania before 1940), and I want them to stay alive.
BTW, Commonwealth and Eastern-European observers found some violations, but declared that they were minor and couldn't affect the election results.
I don't know what "rules" are observed, Boroda, just that foreign observers said there was questionable power being abused for election purposes. Frankly I could care less, as its very apparent that the Former Soviet Union is NOT ready for freedom and democracy. I think you're used to be under the iron fist where .000001% carrys all the wealth.
Oh, and the link is the 5th post down, I can predict your response though..."Its all western propaganda!"
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
I don't know what "rules" are observed, Boroda, just that foreign observers said there was questionable power being abused for election purposes. Frankly I could care less, as its very apparent that the Former Soviet Union is NOT ready for freedom and democracy. I think you're used to be under the iron fist where .000001% carrys all the wealth.
Oh, and the link is the 5th post down, I can predict your response though..."Its all western propaganda!"
i will remind you of how many riots were caused at the voting station when supporters of the other party showed up...here in canada, not alltogether very long ago...
-
Its in the news here
i hope it's not becoming a civil war
-
Boroda u think the european parlement is unfair and not subjective ?
-
Rip, we are not ready for "freedom" and "democracy" in Western way, and I am happy about it. In case of Russia - we are strong enough to stop any intervention into our internal affairs to force it.
I am not a big fan of comrade Putin, and I'll probably vote for Communists on the next elections, but only because we need at least some opposition to the current regime that lost last remnants of shame in last 12 months.
But I saw what was going on here in the 90s when Russia was ruled by IMF and other "charity organisations". It was even worse.
Now look at this, from the link you posted:
Even stronger criticism came from Sen. Richard Lugar (search), R-Ind., chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, who said "a concerted and forceful program of election-day fraud and abuse was enacted with either the leadership or cooperation of governmental authorities."
President Bush, who sent Lugar to Kiev as his envoy, warned last week that Washington would reconsider its relations with Ukraine in the event of a fraudulent election.
European Union foreign ministers called on Ukrainian authorities to "urgently" review presidential election results, arguing that the vote had "clearly fallen short" of international standards.
It is a clear and open blackmail, and supporting insurgency. Let Ukrainians decide for themselves, without some wise guys from NATO making advises supported by cruise missiles.
-
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Boroda u think the european parlement is unfair and not subjective ?
It is unfair and subjective in most of the affairs concerning former USSR countries. Look at them supporting Chechen terrorists and closing eyes on nazis in Baltic republics.
They are just a bunch of freaks obsessed by "liberal values" when they don't concern them.
Sorry.
In this case they are victims of their own idealism, or simply trying to install another puppet regime.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
and closing eyes on nazis in Baltic republics.
Would you care to elaborate?
I guess if you look it from a commie perspective anything even slightly to the right is "nazi". This also seems to work the other way around.
-
Originally posted by mora
Would you care to elaborate?
I guess if you look it from a commie perspective anything even slightly to the right is "nazi". This also seems to work the other way around.
They have official museums of SS troops in Latvia. They declare SS bastards "freedom-fighters". They have annual SS "veteran" parades. In Estonia they build memorials in honor of SS butchers...
In Latvia over 50% of population is deprived of the right to have education in their own language. Ethnic Russians and other non-native population are thrown out of their homes, simply because they can't get citizenship.
Look, in Finland you have a second language, Swedish, while Swedes are about 10-20% of population. In Latvia only 40% are ethnic Latvian, other 60% are Russians, Ukrainians and other Russian-speaking nations. They can't have Russian schools etc.
-
It is one of the leading news here in Sweden today, including OSCE declaring it unfair.
-
I've trouble following your reasong Boroda , you say you don't love Putin but endorse the doubtfull election of one of his puppet ?
Concerning this :
In Latvia over 50% of population is deprived of the right to have education in their own language. Ethnic Russians and other non-native population are thrown out of their homes, simply because they can't get citizenship.
Isn't this a kind of payback ? (I'm not sure as I've not a goog knowledge of the history of this area)
-
Originally posted by straffo
I've trouble following your reasong Boroda , you say you don't love Putin but endorse the doubtfull election of one of his puppet ?
I prefer Russian puppet (that i doubt) to obvious follower of mr. Brzezinsky.
Do you follow the news? That orange bastard declared himself a president violating the Constitution.
I find it amazing. I am waiting for Great Democratic Powers of the West to declare support for Yuschenko, making it obvious that they always can throw away any "democracy" or Constitution to support their criminal puppets.
Now it's obvious that he's no more then a power-hungry gangster, who doesn't care about any laws. If he'll not be arrested for insurgency - political purges will start in a matter of weeks.
-
Don't be so agressive , I'm not my governement :)
IMO the situation in Ukraine is pretty fu* up , the more I learn about this country the more it seems to me it's just 2 countries like was Czecoslovaquia ...
The question remain : which puppet is better for the Ukrainian citizen ?
One that can attract the money of the West ?
or
the other ?
-
The Ukrain isn't ready for democracy yet and the US is bored of it.
Boroda, how did all those non lithuanians get to lithuania?
-
3rd day of protesting has basically shut the city down.
Almost complete official results show Yanukovich won a poll that Western observers say was marked by mass fraud.
The United States and the European Union both urged Ukraine not to certify the election result until claims of fraud are investigated. EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said Ukraine was at a crossroads over the results and could turn violent.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
BTW, Commonwealth and Eastern-European observers found some violations, but declared that they were minor and couldn't affect the election results. [/B]
Not sure if Eastern-European is refering to Poland (i mean in the sentence above), but Polish observers have found some MAJOR violations andeveryone (not any given political fraction, but every fraction) and every observer we have/had there is sure that the violations affected the results of elections in Ukraina.
Now if you ask me, i don't think that Yanukovich had to win 75% to 25%.
I say that:
a) everything before the election day was unfair and in favour of Yanukovich, especially when we speak about closing the "independent" TV stations, advertisements times and so on...
b) as far is i hear, there is a SERIOS doubt if the results are not fake
c) i see a lot of folks protesting the results
so i think that something is wrong.
I'm far from saying that EU or USA have much to say about it.. as it's Ukrainian and Ukrainian ONLY business, BUT
if Russia can say a word and can support Yanukovich, any other country have the same right to support the other candidate.
As i said, the best option would be if Ukraina can solve the problem by itself, without a help from Russia, EU and USA, that'd be the best way.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
I find it amazing. I am waiting for Great Democratic Powers of the West to declare support for Yuschenko, making it obvious that they always can throw away any "democracy" or Constitution to support their criminal puppets.
Boroda. It's just a question, not an attack - you say that Yuschenko is a criminal? I'
ve heard that Yanukovich was prisoned two times (?) in his past not the Yuschenko. Or i've mixed things up?
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
3rd day of protesting has basically shut the city down.
From my friends in Kiev I know it's not true.
It's an "uprising" of people who have nothing to do. Real people work or drink.
What we have is a criminal, supported by so-called "western democracies", who tries to usurp the power.
The real choice of Ukrainian people doesn't worry you.
We had this in Russia in 1993, when Yeltsin butchered thousands in Ostankino and Krasnaya Presnya... Ukrainians are happy they didn't suffer this things sponsored by western enemy,
Again, I want to quote Lenin: "When I hear someone speaking about democracy, I want to know - in who's favour"...
-
Originally posted by bikekil
Boroda. It's just a question, not an attack - you say that Yuschenko is a criminal? I'
ve heard that Yanukovich was prisoned two times (?) in his past not the Yuschenko. Or i've mixed things up?
Mr. Yu is a criminal - he tries to get the power ignoring the official results of the elections.
Yanukovich was in prison in Soviet times. In hard times. My relatives were in prison in Soviet times too... But he doesn't try to start a civil war, doesn't declare that the elections are fake before seeing the results, he accepts any result without calling people to the streets.
How to spell a name of a pro-western candidate:
In Cyrillic he's "Ющенко".
In Latin:
Youshchenko
Jushenko
Yuschenko
Ushenko
Juchenko
Youshenko
etc ad nauseum.
Two Cyrillic letters "Ю" and "Щ" can be spelled as "YOU" and "SHCH". Or whatever youu like, depending on your local dialect.
The situation is like this:
Imagine that in 2000 Al Gore declares that the elections are faked, and calls his supporters to come to the streets. They block traffic in DC, and mr. Gore declares himself a "president" in a Capitol, supported by Democratic part of Senate. At the same time it's a fact that he's sponsored by Bin Laden.
I think the person who'll do such things must be arrested and tried for treason.
Youshchenko is sponsored by Berezovsky and his ideological teacher is Brzezinsky.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Real people work or drink.
Eedyot ahota na volkov!
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Is it in the news in the West?
Front page news on every major paper recently.
http://www.slate.com/id/2110102/ (http://www.slate.com/id/2110102/)
Powell says the US thinks the election was a fraud.
-
Originally posted by Neubob
Eedyot ahota na volkov!
Wolf-hunting goes on in Chechnya now.
It happened in Ukraine in late-40s, their wolves didn't last long. But even there "wolves" killed thousands of civillians though....
-
Originally posted by Montezuma
Powell says the US thinks the election was a fraud.
Let me tell you what?... He should go and @#$k himself.
Ukraine has a Constitution, and no loosy politician from overseas should demand to violate it.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Wolf-hunting goes on in Chechnya now.
It happened in Ukraine in late-40s, their wolves didn't last long. But even there "wolves" killed thousands of civillians though....
Beard, I was referring to Vihsotski... Had roughest voice of any singer I've ever heard, but it sure served him well in getting his point across.
-
The type of rhetoric coming from the west will only embolden the opposition.
Ukraine is not some 3rd world crap whole and should be given the benefit of doubt to handle its own internal politics without undue external influence. Boroda's 2000 'Al Gore scenario' is spot on.
Even if the vote was some how manipulated it is still far better then violence or civil war.
Basically the US should STFU publicly. Any concerns the US or the West has toward the elections should be handled via government channels not through the media.
From the link Montezuma provided Putin is quoted as saying:
Ukraine is a state of law. It doesn't need to be lectured
-
Originally posted by Wotan
Basically the US should STFU publicly. Any concerns the US or the West has toward the elections should be handled via government channels not through the media.
From the link Montezuma provided Putin is quoted as saying:
This seems to be a big year for elements of the media committing proverbial Dirty Sanchezes of free speech on the electoral processes of other countries.
-
Boroda,
I think I can safely speak for all of Western civilization when I say we don't really care who runs things over there as long as you guys keep exporting over all those hottie mail-order brides.
Thanks,
Wab
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Mr. Yu is a criminal - he tries to get the power ignoring the official results of the elections.
Mr. Yu just wants to have outside observers take a look at your voting tally's. If the opposition has nothing to hide, then why not? Something to hide, Comrade?
Sounds like Canada is onboard with the rest of the world calling for a review of the election process, but your "comrades" are not complying. If they;ve nothing to hide, then why not? Every other election process in the democratic part of the world is opened to outside observers, well except now!
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1527&u=/afp/20041124/wl_canada_afp/canada_ukraine_041124201654&printer=1
-
Out of topic, and a little picky, but...
Ripsnort, you was one of the guy asking us eurotards to go f... ourselves about YOUR elections?
Or am I wrong?
The irony, uh?
;)
-
good point Naso :)
however finally after "you forgot Poland" thing that i finally seen (you are right... the smile on the Bush face after that phrase was like he just won the elections because Kerry forgot us ;) ), i said a word or two about it... so as an eurotard who said his opinion about US elections i can't use that argunent with Rip ;)
With Ukraina thing is a bit different - Ukrainians (a good share of them anyway) are looking for some kind of help from both EU and USA, then if Russia (as a contry, not Boroda himself) can comment the thing i don's see any reason for what USA or EU should shuddup about it.
What worries me, is Russian intention to push Ukraina out of EU and EU trying to put them in other direction... i'm not surprised, but the whole idea of democracy is to let people decide themselves. I don't like that idea (the democracy) but if Ukraina is a democratic country and "Ukraine is a state of law. It doesn't need to be lectured" then why on earth people over there can have a free and REAL elections?
Let them decide, but don't let them politicialns, criminals and so on, decide for the people.
-
Real people work or drink.
hehehe :)
-
Are there any reliable sources on the dirtrict results fromt he voting ?
EU diplomant on radio ( BBC ) the other day stated that whole districtis had a turnout rates along the way of 100% with 100% of people voting for the same candidate.
If there is proof to that info, i'm convinced.
Boroda, question for you: do you think that recent elections in Bialorus were free and fair ?
-
Originally posted by Naso
Out of topic, and a little picky, but...
Ripsnort, you was one of the guy asking us eurotards to go f... ourselves about YOUR elections?
Or am I wrong?
The irony, uh?
;)
your wrong. :)
-
There are the results which mostly show drastic polarization of the vote in the Western\Central and the Eastern\Southern regions with the numbers of 80-90 % and more in favor of "YU"(=Yushchenko) in many of the W\C oblast' (the largest administrative unit) and the same numbers in favor of "YA"(=Yanukovich) in the E\S.
May seem strange enough, but the numbers in favor of YU in the Transcarpathian oblast' are "only" 55% compared to 40% for YA. It can be explained by the history of this subregion, which ethnically differs from many of the neighboring oblast's. Unlike most of the Western Ukraine these people still remember too well the foreign rule of Austria and Poland over their land, and they are less influenced by the propaganda having their own history of the independent and autonomous statehood.
Another remarkable result is the voting in the "abroad" constituencyof Ukrainian voters which gave 56% to YU and 43% to YA.
The overall number of votes in favor of the president-elect Yanukovich is bigger by nearly 900,000.
I personally would say that even with all known and unknown "violations" of the voting process
it is practically impossible to falsify the results to such an extend.
-
The Ukrain isn't ready for democracy yet and the US is bored of it.
Boroda, how did all those non lithuanians get to lithuania?
__________________
Pongo
=Wings of Terror=
I guess Boroda is pretty busy right now, so I can try to answer your question.
Comrade Stalin was an expert in the interethnic affairs. Shortly before, during and after the WWII a lot of Soviet apparatchiks together with their families landed in the Baltic republics. Many of them were ethnic Lithuanians, Latvians, and Estonians, but the greatest majority of them were Russian-speaking "Homo Soveticus" species
(not necessarily the Russians) followed by the hordes of the Soviet Working Class armies, as well as the real Army and Navy veterans. But that was not the direct reason to tip the ethnic boat over in these republics. The "Pribalty" (the Baltic nations incorporated into the Soviet Union)
scuffled their ethnic boats themselves by the self-chosen extremely low "civilized" birth-rates as compared to unrefined Russo-occupants. These are the facts.
And do not read too much newspaper propaganda every day. There are also thick books where the propaganda is less obvious.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Is it in the news in the West?
It sure is.... but we're having a hard time keeping the names straight.
I hope this dosen't end in viloence.
-
Originally posted by fd ski
Are there any reliable sources on the dirtrict results fromt he voting ?
EU diplomant on radio ( BBC ) the other day stated that whole districtis had a turnout rates along the way of 100% with 100% of people voting for the same candidate.
If there is proof to that info, i'm convinced.
Does your media say that for example in Lvov the violations in Yu's favour were pathetic? They gave packs of ballots directly to the crowd saying "you know how to vote"...
Originally posted by fd ski
Boroda, question for you: do you think that recent elections in Bialorus were free and fair ?
Yes.
Belorussia is the only post-USSR republic that now has industrial growth over the state of 1990. They don't bend over for NATO and "friends" from overseas, that's why they are shown as "fascists" by Western media. People there live at least as good as in Russia, but without criminal "olygarchs" robbing the people.
I can believe that people were sincere voting for "bat'ka" Lukashenko. I want a guy like him here in Russia.
-
For those who speak Russian (or can read Russian/Ukrainian Cyrillic) - here (http://forum.wbfree.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24660&page=1&pp=15) is a link to a discussion on our Forum. You can see all knds of opinions there.
What frightens me is "katsapam - gan'ba" slogan from some our Ukrainian friends. True Friends, BTW.
Another opinion: instability in Ukraine is good for Russian business. Pro-Western president can destroy Ukrainian weapon industry that competes with Russian, Russia can claim all the Ukrainian debts (they owe us literally half of their country for natural gas and oil), etc...
Does anyone really think that Ukraine will be allowed to join EU?... :confused:
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Does anyone really think that Ukraine will be allowed to join EU?... :confused:
why not? i mean not anytime soon, but if they allowed us to join...
Can't really say if we are good addition to EU and if it's a good business for us, time will show, but i think that IF Ukraina will have something to offer, they will be welcomed.
Anyway, they have to decide if they want to be more Russian or European country and the rest will act accordingly.
-
-
Re : Boroda's opinion
Another opinion: instability in Ukraine is good for Russian business. Pro-Western president can destroy Ukrainian weapon industry that competes with Russian, Russia can claim all the Ukrainian debts (they owe us literally half of their country for natural gas and oil), etc...
Ukraine is another victim of international financial sharks who are behind all this "dungocracy" and "velvet" revolutions of the late XX and early XXI centuries. The more turmoil all around the world -
the better for the fat cats. And once again the fight is not over the Ukraine but around Russia and its huge mineral resourses.
"Id'yot okhota na volkov" ("They are hunting down the volwes"), as sung Vladimir Vysotskiy.
And really, do certain North American circles need any true freedom anywhere in the world? Especially in the countries that are, by their position on the face of the earth, dependant on Russia, this strong wolf of Eurasian steppes and thick forests. But one can hire a loose band of coyottes and distract Russian attention from more important problems.
The Golden Bull needs peaceful money cows.
Notwithstanding of what true American patriots
may think about this matter.
So, in the short run, instability in Ukraine may be profitable for Russian business, but I don't think that it is in the best interest of Russia to have an angry hungry coyotte as the neighbor.
This also answers the question about the Ukrainian debts (for borrowed from Russia oil and gas). With the "pro-Russian" president in Kyyv Russia can "forgive" the debts as a jesture of the good will, exactly as it has just did with the billions of the Iraqi debts. This would make favorable for Russia impression on many Ukrainians. But with the pro-Western candidate in the presidential seat of Ukraine the international forces will PUSH Russia to make the same decision in order for themselves to look nice. In both cases Russia will lose financially.
About the membership of Ukraine in the European Union I can only say that it is a provocation also directed at Russia because at pres time the membership in the EU is connected to the NATO ( why this ugly remnant of Cold War is still walking down the streets of the European capitals is quite understandable -
I can see the hairy arm of American imperialism).
-
Boroda, i guess you're refering to this:
http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/swiat/1,59825,2412231.html
This is the most idiotic theory I've ever heard, and being both, polish and american, it amuzes me to no end.
What next ? Jews and masons coalitions to take over teh world ?
maybe, just maybe, people in ukraine are sick of living in stone age, in the name of panslavic nations, the wonderful Tzarist idea to keep tabs on all eastern europe. Brothers ? I don't think they got over uncle Joe yet and his agricultular ideas.
Poland and other eastern europe nations gone towards the west and in last 12 years standard of living skyrocketed, if compared with bellybutton backwards places like Bialorus and Ukraine. Wonder why ? Don't you suppose that those people want to live in normal country rather then USSR redux ?
Bialorus elections were a joke. Results were known before votes were cast and you know it.
You'd like ******* just like him in Russia ? Wake up and smell the coffee Boroda. I like you man, you know I do, but you're really getting weird lately.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Yanukovich was in prison in Soviet times. In hard times.
As our news pointed - he was prisoned for rape once, if it's true, somehow i won'[t believe it's caused by a bad Soviet regime. IF it's true he's nop more no less but a criminal... and if you as me, i do prefer someone who violated the constitution over someone who raped a woman.
Question is - if it's true, as i've also read that Yanukovich's "papers" dissapeared from the evidence in a mysterious ways and now he can say he was prisoned for giving diapers to the poor kids
:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by bikekil
As our news pointed - he was prisoned for rape once, if it's true, somehow i won'[t believe it's caused by a bad Soviet regime. IF it's true he's nop more no less but a criminal... and if you as me, i do prefer someone who violated the constitution over someone who raped a woman.
Question is - if it's true, as i've also read that Yanukovich's "papers" dissapeared from the evidence in a mysterious ways and now he can say he was prisoned for giving diapers to the poor kids
:rolleyes:
The rape accusation was called back. The girl probably understood it's not a good way to get married ;)
Now please look at Yu gang: Yulia Timoshenko is under trial for heavy crimes, and now that silly ***** calls people to violence and overthrowing the democratically-elected authorities.
Noone tries to hide obvious connection between Yu gang and international criminal groups, led by "political refugees" like Boris Berezovsky, responcible for many crimes including the begining and sustaining the war in Chechnya.
Again: any news on violations of the election rules by Yu and "democratic opposition"? JFYI: Ya side has 6000 reports on violations already in courts.
Keep watching TV guys. They'll tell you the truth. :lol
Another thing to think about: Zbignev Brzezinsky already commented the situation in Ukraine. Guess wo he supports? Now that studmuffingot Solana, butcher of Yugoslavia, comes to Kiev for "negotiations". Tell me who's your friend...
-
Ok I follow your reasoning Boroda :
the enemy of democraty are wearing orange shirts
the friends of democraty are dressed in blue/Kaki/combat fatigue have helmet on their head plus guns.
-
"Now please look at Yu gang: Yulia Timoshenko is under trial for heavy crimes, and now that silly ***** calls people to violence and overthrowing the democratically-elected authorities."
OK, so i could conclude it that way right?
Ya, was prisoned two times, the documentation of it dissapeared in a mysterious way, but you havn't said what was the reason of the penalty he got, so i can assume that it was not a "politica" thing... He just is a criminal :)
now,
Timoshenko is under trial for havey crimes - never heard of it, and glad you said that. Prolly would not heard of it in our news, but there are two things - udner trial does not mean she's guilty and other, can you tell me what havy crimes that are?
As for the "calls people to violence and overthrowing the democratically-elected authorities." part - as far as i see, people there are protesting in a friendly way, they are not hunting them oposition down on the streets. i would not call it a violence! but you are right about the thing, that they are against the elected president. At this point i would never call that elections a democratic ones, but me, you or anyone here can't be the judge about it. We can have our doubts but none of us were there and seen any violations.
It's pretty similar to what we had here with Solidarity - they were called Criminals by the Soviet and Polish goverments... and our giverment was nothing more then a Soviet govermant we had here. Without the Solidarity, Walesa and the protests we had here, we would never be where we are now, and believe be we are happy to have what we have :)
So i really understand people who are trying to do everything that's possible for them, to have a better life. sorry to say it, but at this point i think that noone except Europe can offer them a better life.
I can't say if after what's going to happened over there EU will screw them or not, but still that's what i think.
As for the "Keep watching TV" sentence - do you believe your TV will showing you the truth? :lol
-
Originally posted by fd ski
Boroda, i guess you're refering to this:
http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/swiat/1,59825,2412231.html
This is the most idiotic theory I've ever heard, and being both, polish and american, it amuzes me to no end.
What next ? Jews and masons coalitions to take over teh world ?
maybe, just maybe, people in ukraine are sick of living in stone age, in the name of panslavic nations, the wonderful Tzarist idea to keep tabs on all eastern europe. Brothers ? I don't think they got over uncle Joe yet and his agricultular ideas.
Poland and other eastern europe nations gone towards the west and in last 12 years standard of living skyrocketed, if compared with bellybutton backwards places like Bialorus and Ukraine. Wonder why ? Don't you suppose that those people want to live in normal country rather then USSR redux ?
Bialorus elections were a joke. Results were known before votes were cast and you know it.
You'd like ******* just like him in Russia ? Wake up and smell the coffee Boroda. I like you man, you know I do, but you're really getting weird lately.
Sorry, I understand mayby only 50-70% of that Polish article. :(
I don't know who is that Markov, but the idea that Brzezinsky and Polish diaspora wants to spoil relations between Putin and Bush is interesting.
I see Brzezinsky as the biggest enemy of Eastern Slavs, Russia and USSR. Frankly speaking - I never think of him as of a Pole. He's just a cold war relic, who writes books about how to destroy Russia, seriously thinking that 60% of it's population must be eliminated, with the rest working on oil and gas supplies to the West.
If someone is supported by pan Zbignew - then he's definetly an enemy.
As for Belorussia - they do live good, and they made it clear that majority supports Lukashenko. Here we go again: if the results of democratic elections don't suit Western powers - they declare it "fake" and "non-democratic". Isn't it time for your "democratic" brass-hats to STFU?
"Do you still believe in democracy? Then we fly to YOU!".
Working people of the Ukraine understand what will happen if Yu will seize power. Unemployment, almost total in Donbass with it's coal mines, inflation and maybe hunger. Bankers and speculants unerstand that he's their president - that's why every "protestor" in Kiev gets 50 hrivnyas a day.
-
Belorussia a democraty ?
Wow ! I'm the next queen of England!
-
Originally posted by straffo
Belorussia a democraty ?
Wow ! I'm the next queen of England!
You have to learn as long as you live :)
They have elections, and on referendum majority voted for Lukashenko to be allowed to participate in next presidental elections.
I think they voted so because they saw how the other party ran the coutry in early-90s, and see what goes on in Russia.
-
http://www.bhhrg.org/CountryReport.asp?CountryID=22&ReportID=230
Contrary to the condemnations issued by the team of professional politicians and diplomats deployed by the OSCE mainly from NATO and EU states, the BHHRG observers did not see evidence of government-organized fraud nor of suppression of opposition media. Improbably high votes for Prime Minister, Viktor Yanukovich, have been reported from south-eastern Ukraine but less attention has been given to the 90% pro-Yushchenko results declared in western Ukraine.
Although Western media widely claimed that in Ukraine the opposition was, in effect, excluded from the broadcast media, particularly in western Ukraine the opposite was the case. On the eve of the poll – in flagrant violation of the law banning propaganda for candidates – a series of so-called “social information” advertisements showing well-known pop stars like Eurovision winner Ruslana wearing the orange symbols of Mr Yushchenko’s candidacy and urging people to vote appeared on state television!
Who's the biggest fan of "human rights watch" here?...
-
My favourite:
(http://www.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Mvb/L_U.jpg)
Quote from Independance Square in Kiev:
"We will save our country by shutting down the industry, having no classes in schools and colleges, stopping transport!"
@#$% "rebel princess"...
-
Originally posted by straffo
Belorussia a democraty ?
Wow ! I'm the next queen of England!
Oh yes it is!!!! Check here if ya don't believe me:
http://www.president.gov.by/eng/
-
propaganda :D
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
your wrong. :)
As usual, damnit! :mad:
:)
It's that you eagles look soooo similar :P
;)
-
Originally posted by Yeager
You guys in russia know about the peterson case, dont you?
I'm not in russia but, about the Peterson case, the only reason I know about it is because of Jay Leno. :)
That looser isn't that interesting abroad.
-
Ripped from AGW
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4044791.stm
-
Originally posted by scout
Ripped from AGW
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4044791.stm
TRC "Ukraina" shows a quite different picture. It's an information from or Kiev friends.
I look at the situation with sorrow. They are as stupid and idealistic as we were 10 years ago...
Yu needs blood, lots of blood, to have proof that he fights "criminal regime".
In 1993 Russian regime shot protestors from heavy machine-guns, and had Latin-American-style executions at Presnya stadium... Look, Yeltsin, a "democrat" supproted by the West did it to finish a destruction of my country. If Yu will win - it can be worse. :(
-
BTW, Yu supporters sincerely believe there is "Moscow city spetsnaz" in Kiev.
I love this crowd-manipulating thechniques.
Damn, I remember with shame how in summer 1996 I was in a front line of pro-Yeltsin demonstration... We were seriously preparing for war in Moscow, testing wireless digital communication with a team of Fidonetters...
In 1996 Communists won the elections, and it is a fact. Another fact is that their leaders are irresponcible cowards, who agreed to agree with Yeltsin's "victory"...
-
Boroda, history reveals time and time again, where there is obvious corruption at the voting booth, there is always civil revolt. They tend to go hand in hand, but the Soviet Un...er Russia doesn't realize that yet since their relatively new to democracy. ;)
Now, about Yu, will that poisoning kill him before he gets his day in court, so to speak?
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Boroda, history reveals time and time again, where there is obvious corruption at the voting booth, there is always civil revolt. They tend to go hand in hand, but the Soviet Un...er Russia doesn't realize that yet since their relatively new to democracy. ;)
Now, about Yu, will that poisoning kill him before he gets his day in court, so to speak?
They are 10 years behind us in "political life".
There were violations both in favour of Yu and Ya, only in different parts of Ukraine.
Poisoning? It's called "herpes". He'd better not @#$k everyone he sees. If he's poisoned - why he's still alive?...
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Poisoning? It's called "herpes". He'd better not @#$k everyone he sees. If he's poisoned - why he's still alive?...
Medicine was not your principal subject in school, was it? :lol
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Medicine was not your principal subject in school, was it? :lol
That's why I ask my friends who have degrees in medicine.
Another version I heard from them is skin cancer. I hope this frankenstein is not that sick...
-
so we gonna have 2nr round player again hopefully :)
I think that Ukraina will move to the west in a political meaning.. just my opinion ;)
-
Originally posted by Boroda
The situation is like this:
Imagine that in 2000 Al Gore declares that the elections are faked, and calls his supporters to come to the streets. They block traffic in DC, and mr. Gore declares himself a "president" in a Capitol, supported by Democratic part of Senate. At the same time it's a fact that he's sponsored by Bin Laden.
I think the person who'll do such things must be arrested and tried for treason.
Imagine in 2000 if Gore's government agents had Bush poisoned and took over all the media...
-
Originally posted by Boroda
That's why I ask my friends who have degrees in medicine.
Another version I heard from them is skin cancer. I hope this frankenstein is not that sick...
Degrees in medicine eh? So skin cancer and herpes turns you ugly in 30 days? :rofl
-
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041119/capt.xaz10211191109.ukraine_election_xaz102.jpg)
There is no foul play here comrades. Move along, nothing to see. Obey, multiply, consume.
-
(http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/11/24/ukraine_wideweb__430x269.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Degrees in medicine eh? So skin cancer and herpes turns you ugly in 30 days? :rofl
Yes it can.
Or you say it's a secret KGB poison, that wasn't recognised by Austrian doctors? :lol (who were in fact paid to find a "poison").
They were speaking about ricin (a fashionable word from newspeak), no traces, then - about dioxin, but admitting that it's possible to poison a person in such a way if he eats contaminated food for several days.
Yes, definetly a Hand of Moscow! Who cares that Yu's wife in an American, working for DoS! Who cares that East and South, regions that produce 80% GNP voted for Ya, they are "evil communists"! Who cares that at least 2 million pro-Yu votes in Western Ukraine are fake? It's obvious that US DoS and EU monkeys together with NATO butchers will never admit the result of the elections if their candidate looses, and they said it many times.
C'mon, students and bums from Western Ukraine, brought to Kiev and paid 150 hrivnyas per 6-hour shift know better then the people of Ukraine. The saddest thing is that people who are sincerely supporting Yu don't ubnderstand that for him they are nothing, and will be left to starve and freeze right after he'll get the power.
Again: Yu and his hysterical friend, Yulia Timoshenko (who's on international wanted lists) and their American masters desperately need blood.
Did you read both programms from Yu and Ya? Ya is a reasonable industrial leader, while Yu is a socialist in it's worst form... Social jobs, ("new deal" my prettythang...), raising pensions, credits and so on, that will kill Ukrainian economics in 6 months. In fact Yu calls Ukraine "back to the USSR". I bet you never will recieve such information from your media sources.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Poisoning? It's called "herpes". He'd better not @#$k everyone he sees. If he's poisoned - why he's still alive?...
Why should it be "poisoning"?
I have lately had severe laryngitis (just the inflammation of my larynx), and, I bet you, my countenance (i.e. my facial expression) could be better compared to the opposite part of my body.
So, I would prefer to have the doctor's opinion on this case, or to have "doctors' case" in the XXI century Ukraine.
-
Ukraine president backs new poll (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4053067.stm)
-
All that Radioactivity floating round the Ukraine, bet that doesn't help the man much! I blame Chernobyl. Atomkraft nein danke!:cool:
-
Originally posted by Toad
Ukraine president backs new poll (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4053067.stm)
After Ukrainan Supreme Council declared elections a fraud, Bundestag stated that victory over Germany in 1945 illegal. "Multiple violations were reported during hostilities" - Bundestag deputees confirmed their decision. EU representatives supported the decision of German parliament, saying that the best solution is to repeat WWII before the end of the year.
-
Boroda, if there was fraud on both sides, then why would it be a bad thing to hold new polls?
-
Originally posted by Boroda
My favourite:
(http://www.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Mvb/L_U.jpg)
"We will save our country by shutting down the industry, having no classes in schools and colleges, stopping transport!"
@#$% "rebel princess"...
Who is this and what's the story?
-
Yulia Timoshenko, the hysterical female who called the crowd in Kiev to storm government buildings. She's under investigation by Russian and Ukrainian law-enforcement, for bribes, stealing government money and so on. She's under immunity as a parliament member.
-
Originally posted by mora
Boroda, if there was fraud on both sides, then why would it be a bad thing to hold new polls?
Sure. It's the only solution, the problem is that Yu already declared he won before the votes were counted, and keeps refusing any solution that will not make him a president immediately.
Did you see a comedy in Supreme Soviet (Rada, Council) with a bible?...:rolleyes:
-
She looks like Star Wars.... totally hot.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Sure. It's the only solution,
Oh NO!
Boroda has been captured by the black helicopter forces of the evil Western conspiracy!!!
He's agreeing with the West! He's obviously being held captive and being forced to make these posts.
Free Boroda! Free Boroda!
-
TOAD!!!!!
How you feeling bud?
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Sure. It's the only solution, the problem is that Yu already declared he won before the votes were counted, and keeps refusing any solution that will not make him a president immediately.
Did you see a comedy in Supreme Soviet (Rada, Council) with a bible?...:rolleyes:
Who called Ya, with the "contrgratulations" stuff before the votes were conted? Was it Putin? ;) Maybe another conspiracy theory - Putin called Ya because he was sure that Ya is going to win the elections no matter what? ;) If so, how happened thet Putin knew the results before the results were announced? ;) Was it Ya, who claimed himself a winner of the frauded elections before we've seen the results? ;)
Not that it means anything :lol
-
Originally posted by Toad
Oh NO!
Boroda has been captured by the black helicopter forces of the evil Western conspiracy!!!
He's agreeing with the West! He's obviously being held captive and being forced to make these posts.
Free Boroda! Free Boroda!
You didn't understand.
Yu and "nationalistic liberal opposition" (c) Euronews, demand to repeat the elections only in the regions where Ya won. Small note: people there have all reasons to vote for Ya: when Yu was a prime-minister he started to shut down coal mines in Donetsk, preferring to buy more expensive coal in Poland... :(
President Kuchma said that the third round of elections (offered by Poles, EU and US) in a nonsence. He stands for the complete repeating of the elections. I want to add that the best solution will be for both current candidates not to take part in the new elections.
The situation is getting more and more stupid. This flash-mob is boring.
Did you see the news from Romanian elections?
-
Originally posted by bikekil
Who called Ya, with the "contrgratulations" stuff before the votes were conted? Was it Putin? ;) Maybe another conspiracy theory - Putin called Ya because he was sure that Ya is going to win the elections no matter what? ;) If so, how happened thet Putin knew the results before the results were announced? ;) Was it Ya, who claimed himself a winner of the frauded elections before we've seen the results? ;)
Not that it means anything :lol
He congratulated a candidate who obviously won by official vote count. IIRC he was the first to congratulate Bush too.
Ya never called himself a president, like that tangerine frankenstein. Hi insists on solution based on laws and constitution. BTW, he already said that he'll not participate in new elections if Supreme Court will declare the results fake, and said it's probably the only way out.
BTW, where the hell is Walensa? Ukraine desperatey needs new Yaruzelsky, to avoid bloodshed...
-
Ever heard of Seveso Boroda ?
It was all over the news some year ago ...
-
Originally posted by straffo
Ever heard of Seveso Boroda ?
It was all over the news some year ago ...
Maybe I missed it because I rarely watch TV, can you give me a hint/link?
-
Boroda,
If it's true about the coal - it really sucks man. We have the same thing here, we can have the work for our miners (?) but we are importing the coal... that sucks.
Repeating the elections as a whole, or just one round if a good idea (better the street fighting and blocking the cities for sure), but i really can't see why both Ya and Yu should not participate? People voted on both and both of them did nothing wrong, it's not about the candidates but about the frauds that happened as i see it, so all Ukraine should as for and the free and clean elections :) just my opinion
-
Originally posted by Boroda
He congratulated a candidate who obviously won by official vote count. IIRC he was the first to congratulate Bush too.
Ya never called himself a president, like that tangerine frankenstein. Hi insists on solution based on laws and constitution. BTW, he already said that he'll not participate in new elections if Supreme Court will declare the results fake, and said it's probably the only way out.
BTW, where the hell is Walensa? Ukraine desperatey needs new Yaruzelsky, to avoid bloodshed...
Putin contrgratulated a candidate before the official vote count :) Nothing wrong in being first itself :)
What Yu did with claiming himself as a President was stupid, but maybe he needed it to keep the spirit of the crowd. Still i think it was a poor show.
Again the whole deal is about the free choice of the people. I don't mins Ya being a president at all, but it'd be great if there is no doubt that that's the choice of people over there.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
You didn't understand....
...President Kuchma said that the third round of elections (offered by Poles, EU and US) in a nonsence. He stands for the complete repeating of the elections.
Maybe you didn't understand.
The Poles, the EU and the US are making suggestions. But the heart of it is is what Powell said:
Powell says Ukraine must stay together (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N29302601.htm)
"I reaffirmed to President Kuchma the United States' position and the position of others that the territorial integrity of Ukraine is important," said Powell, speaking after a meeting with Bahrain King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa.
"We once again reaffirmed that we hope that Ukrainians will find a legal way forward as well as a political process based on the constitutional law," he added.
Election results are challenged everywhere. It even happens here. The key is that the problems are resolved in the courts and the constitutional process, not in the streets with tanks and machine guns.
-
Originally posted by Toad
Election results are challenged everywhere. It even happens here. The key is that the problems are resolved in the courts and the constitutional process, not in the streets with tanks and machine guns.
Well, first of all, Powell should STFU, because he already said that elections will be declared faked if US orange frankenstein puppet will lose. He already supported insurgency in the Ukraine, and didn't say a single word against overthrowing legal authorities in Lvov, while attempts to get autonomy in the East are declared "insurgency and separatism". Double standards, noone expected anything else.
About tanks and machine guns: I am happy that Ukrainians in Kiev are sane people, and didn't start armed riots a week ago, disappointig Yu and his gang who needed blood.
All my friends in Kiev are "tangerine". My family in Chernovtsy is "tangerine" too. I didn't talk to my relatives in Krivoy Rog (Eastern Ukraine, raw iron mines and steel factories) and Simferopol (Crimea), but I think they are pro-Ya.
Both Yu and Ya should be removed from political process. The problem is that Yu can't do this - too much Western money invested in him.
Another thought about the link Fd Ski posted above. I listened to that person, Sergey Markov, in the Russian media. His idea is that the Yu project is made by the US in favour of Poland, "new Europe", against France and Germany. Poland is considered a major US ally, a kind of "Trojan horse" to break EU apart. That's why Euronews suddenly changend opinion 180 degrees, now they call Yuschenko a "leader of liberal-nationalistic opposition, still hoping for Yugoslavian/Georgian-style coup d'etat".
The worst thing about it all is that we can expect anything like that in any country, including Russia :(
-
I believe what you continually MISS is that the evil conspiracy of the Poles, the EU and the US think:
A) the was serious election fraud in this election
B) the evil conspirators " hope that Ukrainians will find a legal way forward as well as a political process based on the constitutional law".
Right now, the Ukranian President Kuchma has indicated he thinks there was widespread vote fraud, the Ukraine Supreme Court decision put the election results on hold due to the possibility of widespread vote fraud and said it would conduct an examination into the election and the Ukraine's parliament has rejected the results of the country's presidential election and called for a new vote.
Let's see.... Urkraine's President, Supreme Court and Parliament ALL think there was a problem with this election.
Yep.... it's definitely the evil Western conspiracy that's just making this all up and causing all the trouble.
Jeez.... you are without doubt the best entertainment on this board.
-
Toad, I already told you that there were violations on both sides.
Ya's headquaters sent 6000 violation reports to courts. In Lvov they were giving packs of ballots to the crowd in the streets saying "You know how to vote". Estimated number of fake pro-Yu votes in Western Ukraine is two million.
As I said: West sees any violation from pro-Russian candidate, and fails to see obvious violations in favour of their puppet. Double standards are your favourite way of thinking, it's a sad fact :(
Again: as for me - both candidates should not be allowed to take part in next elections. BTW, it's the way it should be according to Ukrainian laws, in case Supreme Court will abandon (probably wrong word here) current elections.
Kuchma is an experienced preferance-player. I think that in the next elections Ukraine will avoid such an obvious division, they'll find a candidate who'll suit both East with it's industry (80% of GNP) and West with it's mountain skiing.
-
My point is that your "evil Pole/EU/US" conspiracy rant is just typically blind.
All anyone of these parties has really said can be summed up by Powell.
"hope that Ukrainians will find a legal way forward as well as a political process based on the constitutional law".
Pretty scarey thought for you, eh? People wanting things solved in the courts according to Constitutional law? Makes you see the Poles/EU/US as the enemy?
:)
-
Boroda, what can i say...
hopefully we are supporting US with Iraq because of some other reason that breaking the EU apart... anyway i have no intention to break EU and i'm very glad that we are supporting the whole Iraq thing.
I'm also proud that as we were saying before we kept backing up our ally when the time came.
But from there , it's a darn good way to be a new Europe created but the US :)
I'm VERY glad to hear that someone finally thought that Poland can be a powerfull country, but... i have to dissapoint you - we don't have that powers and i'm afraid we will never be.
ANyway thank you for believing in our strenght :aok
-
Originally posted by bikekil
Who called Ya, with the "contrgratulations" stuff before the votes were conted? Was it Putin? ;) Maybe another conspiracy theory - Putin called Ya because he was sure that Ya is going to win the elections no matter what? ;) If so, how happened thet Putin knew the results before the results were announced? ;) Was it Ya, who claimed himself a winner of the frauded elections before we've seen the results? ;)
Not that it means anything :lol
Votes WERE COUNTED ! And they were counted by the official "counting commission". But a wise man said that they are not official because they were not published. And they were not published due to all that "revolution" - the Supreme Court of the Ukraine banned such a publication following the claims of "wide-spread fraud" during voting.
You should pay more attention to the technicalities so that you are able to win any battle in any part of the world.
-
Originally posted by Toad
My point is that your "evil Pole/EU/US" conspiracy rant is just typically blind.
All anyone of these parties has really said can be summed up by Powell.
quote:"hope that Ukrainians will find a legal way forward as well as a political process based on the constitutional law".
Pretty scarey thought for you, eh? People wanting things solved in the courts according to Constitutional law? Makes you see the Poles/EU/US as the enemy?
:)
And who or rather what is Mr Powell at press time? The outgoing Sec of State?
I totally agree with him.
But eleven years ago I did not agree with the stuff of the U.S. consulate in St Petersburg (Russia) who were selebrating "the Ocober victory of democracy" in Russia (after Mr Yeltsyn ordered the tanks to fire their cannons at the White House = nickname for the Russian house of Parliament, no connection to the U.S. White House, it so happened that it was also white before all those fires started inside after the shelling, very much like in Chile in September of 1971\?\).
Wait a second ... it reminds me about the Soviet 5-year plans but with the 11-year intervals : September 1971\?\ - Chile, ...(?), October 1993 - Russia, November 2004 - Ukraine. And what am I missing in the autumn months of 1982 ? Any suggestions ? Cuz I can't really rack up my mind on that. What did really happen in the fall of 1982 ?
And what about the strange correspondence with the 11-year cycle of the Sun activity ? In 1979 there was the peak of the Sun activity, so it looks that the third year after the peak of the Sun activity is critical for the brain functions of the democratically-minded citizens.
But why autumn ? What about other seasons of the year ?
Help! Help! Help!
-
Originally posted by genozaur
Votes WERE COUNTED ! And they were counted by the official "counting commission". But a wise man said that they are not official because they were not published. And they were not published due to all that "revolution" - the Supreme Court of the Ukraine banned such a publication following the claims of "wide-spread fraud" during voting.
You should pay more attention to the technicalities so that you are able to win any battle in any part of the world.
Not sure what bettle you are talking about as i don't fight any and have no intention to fight a battle at any part of the world... i'm not a Imperialist :eek:
Here is the link to the news from the biggest web portal in Poland: http://info.onet.pl/1014520,12,item.html?MASK=8494882
it says that Putin contgratulated Ya two times. First when there was no official results and there were only initial results that people seen in TV in the night of elections. Secont time was when official results were known.
That's what i've seen heard in the TV news myself that day... so that are the technicalities i know and i see no reason to don't believe it :)
-
Originally posted by bikekil
Boroda, what can i say...
hopefully we are supporting US with Iraq because of some other reason that breaking the EU apart... anyway i have no intention to break EU and i'm very glad that we are supporting the whole Iraq thing.
I'm also proud that as we were saying before we kept backing up our ally when the time came.
But from there , it's a darn good way to be a new Europe created but the US :)
I'm VERY glad to hear that someone finally thought that Poland can be a powerfull country, but... i have to dissapoint you - we don't have that powers and i'm afraid we will never be.
ANyway thank you for believing in our strenght :aok
Sorry, I only quoted a person who's name I saw in Bartek's link, I didn't hear about him before, and was interested in his opinion. I, personally, don't think that the "conspiracy" is that complicated. Groups supposed in supporting Yu are prestty obvious. In fact Yu is more anti-Russian candidate then pro-Western.
Just a thought: what do you think about Rzecz Pospolita from Vilno to Crimea? ;)
-
Originally posted by bikekil
Not sure what bettle you are talking about as i don't fight any and have no intention to fight a battle at any part of the world... i'm not a Imperialist :eek:
Here is the link to the news from the biggest web portal in Poland: http://info.onet.pl/1014520,12,item.html?MASK=8494882
it says that Putin contgratulated Ya two times. First when there was no official results and there were only initial results that people seen in TV in the night of elections. Secont time was when official results were known.
That's what i've seen heard in the TV news myself that day... so that are the technicalities i know and i see no reason to don't believe it :)
Well, first time he congratulated Ya in the morning on Monday, when officially 99%+ of the votes were counted, and Ya had a 3%+ advantage. Please check when Putin congratulated Bush.
-
Originally posted by Toad
My point is that your "evil Pole/EU/US" conspiracy rant is just typically blind.
All anyone of these parties has really said can be summed up by Powell.
Pretty scarey thought for you, eh? People wanting things solved in the courts according to Constitutional law? Makes you see the Poles/EU/US as the enemy?
:)
About Poles - I only quoted that "political expert" that was mentioned in FD Ski's link, I am not a specialist in Polish language, so I was intrerested in his POV when I heard him in Russian media. IMHO he's just a cheap unknown nothing who wants to become popular by telling another conspirological hallucination.
Powell can say anything about his good intentions, as well as that female reproductive organ Solana, but their other statements were clear enough: they will never recognize any election results other then the victory of their pet-zombie.
I find it a beautiful example of traditional Western double standards. EU clowns didn't object about elections in Afghanistan, held on American bayonets, and I bet they'll recognize a quite predictable result of upcoming elections in Iraq. Seriously, how can elections be a fraud in a country with 150000+ occupation troops? :rofl
-
Originally posted by Boroda
they will never recognize any election results other then the victory of their pet-zombie.
And that of course is where your blindness condemns you to be, once again, totally wrong.
-
Originally posted by Toad
And that of course is where your blindness condemns you to be, once again, totally wrong.
Just look what Powell, EU, NATO and other "fighters for peace and democracy" were telling 10 days ago.
Quoting Lenin again: "When I hear someone speaking about democracy - I always want to know in who's favour".
Even "human-rights" activists, who generally can't be suspected in supporting pro-Russian politicians report multiple violations, but on the Yu side, in Western Ukraine. Look at this link carefully, I post it again: http://www.bhhrg.org/CountryReport.asp?CountryID=22&ReportID=230
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Sorry, I only quoted a person who's name I saw in Bartek's link, I didn't hear about him before, and was interested in his opinion. I, personally, don't think that the "conspiracy" is that complicated. Groups supposed in supporting Yu are prestty obvious. In fact Yu is more anti-Russian candidate then pro-Western.
Just a thought: what do you think about Rzecz Pospolita from Vilno to Crimea? ;)
I think there is no conspiracy, just a usual political game :)
Rzecz Pospolita from Vilno to Crimea? - and you know how it ended ;-) Let's better not do it another time. We have enought of problems already and don't need more. Look at Luxemburg, they are small, rich and happy, there is no need to enslave anyone and grab his land if you are smart, lucky and have the banks ;)
-
Don't see anyone in the International Community saying a fraudulent election should stand.
Do you?
-
Originally posted by Toad
Don't see anyone in the International Community saying a fraudulent election should stand.
Do you?
Stop switching the subject.
I said that US/EU/NATO declared they will not recognize the election results and will call it fake in case Yu looses. So did Yu himself.
"We know we are the winners and don't care about what Election Comission will say, if we lose - then the elections are a fraud!". A beautifull way to act, especially if you are True Democrats, supported by Civilized Democratic Countries, isn't it? I find it even more funny then elections in Afghanistan or Iraq, with 150000 occupants pointing bayonets at voters "hoping you know how to vote". Oh, sorry, such elections in "allied" occupation zones already happened in late-40s! :rolleyes: Real triumph of Democracy!
Do you really think that workers at Donbass will stand this obvious Western pressure, aimed at shutting down Ukrainian industry?... Contradicting "tangerine" propaganda - most of Donbass officials try to keep people from going to Kiev, while miners are already too angry at people who call them "trash" and "illiterate mob"....
-
Fresh news:
Opposition leader Yulia Timoshenko said they will refrain from violence only in exchange to changes in the Ukrainian Constitution.
Following link in Russian:
http://lenta.ru/world/2004/12/02/timoshenko/
Are you with this people?...
Timoshenko needs urgent lobotomy.
Edit: inserted a correct link instead of wrong.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
I said that US/EU/NATO declared they will not recognize the election results and will call it fake in case Yu looses.
What they actually said, if you go ahead an actually READ the news from different sources is that they won't recognize results from a fraudlent election.
Gee.... that's pretty much what every political entity in the Urkraine is saying right now. The President... the Parliament and most likely the Supreme Court as well, when they finish deliberating.
As for your intimation that the Afghan elections were fraudlent because soldiers threatened the voters......... well, you must not read any news at all. There were LOTS of different organizations watching the Afghan elections very closely. All complaints WERE investigated and both the Independent Commission and the plantiffs themselves found nothing of any note, no reason to doubt the results of the election.
Here's the basics. The Afghan elections were watched closely, complaints were investigated independently and the results were found valid.
The Ukrainian elections were watched and complaints are being investigated. It looks like the results are going to be found invalid.
Just about everyone who has commented has merely said if it's fraudlent, it should not stand. That's the position of the EU, the US, the Poles and anyone else with any intelligence.
I apologize in advance, because I know this will not fit your version of alternate reality.
-
forgot too much from shool so can't really read the article :(
can't see it in our news yet.
hopefully it won't happened, but if it will, they will deserve what they gonna get.
If i were them, i'd rest till the time when court decide about the elections, at least...