Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: FuBaR on November 22, 2004, 06:30:15 PM
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dear HTC take this stupid ack exploit away please...how are we supposed to take a port if ack comes up in 30 seconds?
You have successfully made an ingame cheat for lamers and " game gamers" to use....
Please do something about this
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Fubar, they are not going to have and clue what you are talking about. Try reposting what the problem is.
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I guess it starts here. Port Capture attempt......acks get killed.....LVTs drop 8 sets of supps...acks regen instantly.....no way to capute port.....Whels...Hammy...some WMs...and a few more are using it as a base defense tool...CLEAR ENOUGH
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Why is it that you just noticed this, no one else seems to have noticed and reported it either, and yet you are all ticked off about it like its been there forever and no one has done anything? Jeeze man, get a grip. I'm sure they'll look at it and fix it.
In the meantime, see if Furby will share his meds with you. You seem stressed. ;)
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This feature has been around from Ah2 dot. Only way to stop it is to knock out the troops first- then de-ack.
By the way, what's the poundage needed to take down the port's vh, it appears to be very tough indeed.
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Originally posted by Darkish
This feature has been around from Ah2 dot. Only way to stop it is to knock out the troops first- then de-ack.
By the way, what's the poundage needed to take down the port's vh, it appears to be very tough indeed.
You currently cannot knock down troops on a carrier. He wasn't spawning M3's at the port and suppling the port that way. Won't work because the M3 spawned there.
Whels was spawning LVT's from the carrier that was just off shore.
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Sounds like there isn't a bug,
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Yes Hitech, it wasn't a bug.
More of a clever exploit of the holes in the system.
When a CV is right next to a port, it is impossible to capture. The LVT2 spawns directly at the port, regardless whether or not the capital ship is dead or alive.
So, by launching a LVT2 from the CV, then dropping supplies, and then exiting the vehicle, this process takes 2 seconds.
By repeating this endlessly, a port will be resupplied back to full defensive status within 30 seconds.
We've tried everything we could think of - we even thought of spawncamping the LVT spawn area - except no matter how fast one tries to shoot at a spawning LVT, he will always drop supps faster than the LVT is blown up.
Thus, one person, endlessly spawning and dropping supplies, held back an entire flight of some 20 planes at the port. It became impossible to run troops in.
I think something must be done about this.
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Originally posted by Darkish
This feature has been around from Ah2 dot. Only way to stop it is to knock out the troops first- then de-ack.
By the way, what's the poundage needed to take down the port's vh, it appears to be very tough indeed.
it was around in AH1 also.
Dark, i think the problem with the VH is same with ack
at ports being xtra hard to shoot. if u notice when u bomb a port
u get a water splash, not bomb crater even if u hit the ground.
i think there is a problem in how/where the port is placed on the ground. ive dropped a bomb on a ack and killed a ack
somewhere else on the base. so port graphics arent right i dont think.
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Heh, why not just wait for the CV to go away? There were plenty of other bases for you guys to horde at the time. I'm sure the Knights would have moved the CV notrh eventually to counter your massive land grab. Then the port would have fallen like a rock. Instead you all thought it would be a better idea to concentrate way too much manpower on P47 and not the surrounding airfields (which was only one at the time, to the south). All that became of it was a wall of Rooks for hours on end volunteering to become nothing more than cannon fodder for my fellow Knights on the ground. Sounds like bad strategy to me. Most definately not a bug.
BTW, this is not entirely my opinion but... it has always seemed to me that the MA was intended for GAMING. If you want to SIMULATE combat try the CT, or better yet check out what's going on in the SEA.
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Sounds more like poor offensive planning and smart defense. Wait till the CV has cleared the port, THEN take the port. You can always track down the CV and kill it later.
Yes, it's gaming the game. But it's hardly using a 2nd account to hunt down a CV that belongs to a port you captured or drive it into an ambush. The Knights are pro's at that. Just last week I had a CV hiding out in the middle of nowhere and a lone Knight bomber went straight to it.
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Scrap, what you are talking about is completely irrelevant. The issue at hand is people planned a offensive, took the right steps for capture, secured the critical advantage needed, and yet was still thwarted by an awkward problem previously unforeseen.
rpm, to a certain extent, yes, it is smart.
Personally I'm not mad at whels at all - while it is frustrating, my personal philosophy is that as long as something is possible within the game, no one can deny someone else for doing such things.
The only thing that may or may not stop a person from doing something like that, will be his own judgement in relation with common sense and conscience. If whels figured that Knits really needed that port, and was determined to stop capture then it is completely understandable. I feel no guilt when I spam the entire VH area with GV supps to defend it - its the same thing in my opinion.
However, this is a matter regardless of being smart or unsmart. I don't think there's any way one can say that such things being possible is reasonable, nor is it to be considered a valid strategy. It was an obvious overlook not often encountered in the game, but would need a fix sooner or later.
So, on a non-personal level, at objective grounds, what whels did should not be possible, and should be fixed.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
If whels figured that Knits really needed that port, and was determined to stop capture then it is completely understandable. I feel no guilt when I spam the entire VH area with GV supps to defend it - its the same thing in my opinion.
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Kweassa,
in effect, it had the intended outcome. it made the rooks focus on 1 base (p47) and forget the entire front they were working.
when i logged off, Rooks had went from attacking 6 bases
down to 1, and had 90+ pilots involved. that allowed the other knits to retake some bases and thwart the offencive steamroller
that was happening on both fronts, especially Rook/Knit.
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The problem is that the LVT's spawn out in the water and are able to resupply the base from the water. They dont even have to move. Spawn, drop, tower. Spawn, drop, tower. Etc etc.. In my opinion that is what needs to get fixed. They sould have to move to the land and drop the supps there. After all, how is the base supposed to get the supplies way out in the water? And when 90 people are attacking they could supress the LVT's just like any other time. Just my 2 cents..
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Originally posted by hitech
Sounds like there isn't a bug,
No, not a bug. It's exploiting game mechanics, pure and simple, and an example of cheese to the extreme.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136280
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Originally posted by hitech
Sounds like there isn't a bug,
WTF man. So when a CV is totally down (all ships) you think its ok to allow them to spawn LVt's and drop supplies in the water right at spawn point and have it count? If they park CV at port there is absolutly no way to capture the base. If this is not a bug or exploit to you then please say it again. I will take my business back to WWIIOnline where the flying sucks bellybutton but at least they know a exploit when it is presented.
Booky
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The issue at hand is people planned a offensive, took the right steps for capture, secured the critical advantage needed, and yet was still thwarted by an awkward problem previously unforeseen.
Hmm. Sounds like the perfect definition of war. By rights, whels took advantage of something he noticed within the boundaries of the environment he was given to work in, without using any outside aids or exploiting anything officially frowned upon or labelled as a bug or flaw.
I'm not trying to be a smartprettythang. But I am curious. If it's been known about by you guys since AH1, and it gets you this worked up, why hasn't anyone reported it until now? Maybe I'm wrong, and I shouldnt assume, but from what HT posted as a response earlier in this thread, it didnt seem that it was something he was aware of previously. I'm going to avoid any more assumptions, including the obvious ones, as that's not really constructive to the situation. I'm sure now that its been reported, something will be done about it.
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It wasnt reported because people were not abusing it like this.
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Originally posted by Booky
WTF man. So when a CV is totally down (all ships) you think its ok to allow them to spawn LVt's and drop supplies in the water right at spawn point and have it count? If they park CV at port there is absolutly no way to capture the base. If this is not a bug or exploit to you then please say it again. I will take my business back to WWIIOnline where the flying sucks bellybutton but at least they know a exploit when it is presented.
Booky
well booky people been gaming then, when CV down, to spawn many LVTs with troops to take bases?
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I don't disagree with your point Whels. If the whole CV group is down (all ships) then nothing should be able to spawn. It doesn't matter anyway, I already reactivated my other account and Im sure it wont be long before I get too frustrated to play here.
Its a shame though, the flight is one of the best ive played, but its the stupid crap that gets to me so fast.
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SOME of us are smart enough not to try and capture a port with a cv offshore resupplying it.
(edited) some are not.
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exactly!
You can't blame people for using the cv to supply a base, thats what supplies are meant for. Also it's 8 sets of supplies, not just one.
It's not "exploiting" anything.
Here's a clue, if you want port that has a cv next to it, kill the cv group first.
Originally posted by WMLute
SOME of us are smart enough not to try and capture a port with a cv offshore resupplying it.
(edited) some are not.
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jpeg, you dope, read the whole posts. You just agree with all of us that it is an exploit. The point is that the CV was completely dead, all ships sunk, and waiting for its respawn. LVT still spawn and drop supplies IN THE WATER and they still take effect. I am fairly sure I can hit "O"; "B", wait a second for can to drop; the ".ef" then hit spawn again, I can do that 8 times in about 30-40 seconds, so you only need 1 person to do this.
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Originally posted by jpeg
exactly!
You can't blame people for using the cv to supply a base, thats what supplies are meant for. Also it's 8 sets of supplies, not just one.
It's not "exploiting" anything.
Here's a clue, if you want port that has a cv next to it, kill the cv group first.
The exploit comes in when you are attacking a port and the CV group that is home ported there is present. Sink that carrier all you want, it's just gonna respawn right there at the port, and the 5second supply/ef/supply chain never gets broken.
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but it takes 8 supplies, and don't tell me it only takes 5 seconds to get lvt from spawn to base.
You have to cap the base and gun down the lvts.
I know it's more of a challenge if the cv was not near port but I don't think it's a bug, exploit etc etc.
Originally posted by CavemanJ
The exploit comes in when you are attacking a port and the CV group that is home ported there is present. Sink that carrier all you want, it's just gonna respawn right there at the port, and the 5second supply/ef/supply chain never gets broken.
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YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE ON LAND TO DROP THOSE SUPPLIES.....IS THAT CLEAR?
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Originally posted by jpeg
but it takes 8 supplies, and don't tell me it only takes 5 seconds to get lvt from spawn to base.
It doesnt take 5 seconds, it takes about 2. You dont have to move at all, you just spawn, drop the supplies in the water and exit to the tower. If you had to move to land this would not be an issue.
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everybody calm down! we'll take care of it.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Scrap, what you are talking about is completely irrelevant. The issue at hand is people planned a offensive, took the right steps for capture...
Are you sure about this one? Think about it...
Originally posted by Scrap
Heh, why not just wait for the CV to go away?...
I'm sure the Knights would have moved the CV notrh eventually to counter your massive land grab...
Instead you all thought it would be a better idea to concentrate way too much manpower on P47 and not the surrounding airfields (which was only one at the time, to the south)...
Sounds like bad strategy to me.
Originally posted by Whels
Kweassa,
in effect, it had the intended outcome. it made the rooks focus on 1 base (p47) and forget the entire front they were working.
when i logged off, Rooks had went from attacking 6 bases
down to 1, and had 90+ pilots involved. that allowed the other knits to retake some bases and thwart the offencive steamroller
Originally posted by WMLute
SOME of us are smart enough not to try and capture a port with a cv offshore resupplying it.
(edited) some are not.
Seems this happens nine times out of ten when trying to capture an important port that one side is stuck on keeping. One port that does come to mind is whatever P# that is SE of A10 on ndisles. Always seems that CV is hitting A10 when the Knights have it. We usually sink it and it returns to the port. Then a wall of knits will scurry off to take the port so the CV will stop bothering A10. I have yet to see this happen. Seems A10 is doomed to forever face the threat of Carrier Ops.
Btw, this is because no one will attack the port while the CV is out hitting 10.
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Originally posted by NATEDOG
everybody calm down! we'll take care of it.
Not sure what there is to take care of. You could resupply a field from the water since back in AH1 days. Many knew of it. Heck lots. P47 isn't the only port where this happens. ANY port I have tried to take w/ a nme cv offshore had this issue. Been like this for awhile.
This seems more of an issues of a few feathers getting ruffled (read. ego's) as opposed to a "bug".
I for one don't really care either way, BUT I also don't see an issue with it. You will rarely (I gota go back almost a year) see me droping supplies in the water, 'cause I don't like the ditch. I would rather drive them in.
I've seen all sides do it, on all maps, going back over a year. Just because a few guys get "vocal" on the bbs is no reason to "jump".
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Originally posted by NATEDOG
everybody calm down! we'll take care of it.
This is one AH2 player, that will rest good tonight. :o Glad to see that your on top of it. :aok
Thanks for all of those who have brought this matter to light. :aok :aok
Happy Thanksgiving all you turkeys:D
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Who you callin a Turkey you Turkey.
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Are you sure about this one? Think about it...
The resupp system is designed so that each resupp knocks off a certain amount of regeneration time required to reup a certain facility.
The system is intended so that the players must spend a certain time and effort to resupply something. It's designed so that the resupply attempt is not too difficult, but not too easy.
For instance, you can't just fully resupply a field with only one or two people - at least, fast enough to matter. It takes many people and continuous effort to cover the distance back and forth, to resupp something.
The resupp at port, is different. Instant resupplying at the spot, on water. One person with a repeated click of a button can prevent many people who took the time to hit acks, knock VH, clear GVs, even kill the CV nearby.
The objections to this is beyond the 'within the game' level - its possible in the game, but it should not be, because, it does not make sense in terms of reasonable gameplay.
I wouldn't have to explain the whole deal like this for someone to know that the Port resupp thing is an issue that must be addressed. So, don't play dumb.
Not sure what there is to take care of. You could resupply a field from the water since back in AH1 days. Many knew of it. Heck lots. P47 isn't the only port where this happens. ANY port I have tried to take w/ a nme cv offshore had this issue. Been like this for awhile.
Except in AH1, supplies landed on water didn't take. They had to drive over to the port and land the supplies.
Or, if it was the same even in AH1, then that sort of ironically proves that this thing wasn't something that everyone knew. It may have been possible from the days of AH1, but it has never been an issue until now because personally, I've never seen somebody actually exploit it to the full like this.
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Any chance of seeing a barracks or 2 placed ON a CV that can be individually destroyed, such as the radar and ack guns? Obviously it should be made somewhat difficult to disable, but still.... not very realistic that when the 2 main ships are gone, LVT's and PT's can still spawn, which is a point for another day I suppose.
For those that think there's nothing wrong with this situation, does it then also make sense that you should be able to repeatedly up a goon on the runway, then drop airfield supplies without moving, to regenerate ack or ordinance at that same airfield? Heck, you could keep upping m-3's and never worry about leaving the comfy confines of the VH.
The other thing that seems inherently wrong about this is.. we've even tried porking the applicable AAA factories that supposedly resupply these ports to darn near 0% and this exploit still seems to work. (and yes, by definition it is an exploit.. as opposed to a hack, which would be a TOS violation)
Just some thoughts..
^^^AIM HIGH^^^
~Wes
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Originally posted by WesDawg
For those that think there's nothing wrong with this situation, does it then also make sense that you should be able to repeatedly up a goon on the runway, then drop airfield supplies without moving, to regenerate ack or ordinance at that same airfield? Heck, you could keep upping m-3's and never worry about leaving the comfy confines of the VH.
what keeps M3s and C47s from resuppling the same base they up from is, HT has it programmed u cant resupp same base of origin. CVs are considered a base different from the port they
spawn from. so the above rule doesnt apply to LVTs from CV to port. they are considered 2 different bases.
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Originally posted by WesDawg
The other thing that seems inherently wrong about this is.. we've even tried porking the applicable AAA factories that supposedly resupply these ports to darn near 0% and this exploit still seems to work. (and yes, by definition it is an exploit.. as opposed to a hack, which would be a TOS violation)
Just some thoughts..
^^^AIM HIGH^^^
~Wes
factories only effect down time of strat it supplies, if not player
resupplied
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Originally posted by NATEDOG
everybody calm down! we'll take care of it.
Thank you.
As a part of this, I have to ask, why should ANYTHING be able to spawn from a completely destroyed Task Force?
If there are no ships, then nothing should be able to spawn. At least nothing with supplies and/or troops.
I can see where PT boats MIGHT be spawned from a dead Task Force simply for the sake of a fight.
But to spawn anything with troops or supplies is ludicrous.
Nothing that has been destroyed should be rebuilt by resupply within 5 minutes (or more) of being destroyed.
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Whels,
As it was explained to me long ago, hangars, town buildings, and TG's were the only fixed-time respawning items.. whereas base strats were impacted by the status of the applicable factory. Also, the capital city closest to HQ impacted how fast HQ regen'd, as well as how fast the strat factories in that zone repaired themselves. Supply trains and convoys play a role here as well but I'm not well-versed enough to comment on that specific aspect.
I can also understand why you're the counterpoint to this obvious oversight in the game.. how many port field gun kills do you have this month as a result of this? An unbiased viewpoint will always hold more credibility than one with a not-so-hidden agenda. :p
Hopefully this can be tinkered with easily... and soon.
~Wes
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Originally posted by WesDawg
Whels,
I can also understand why you're the counterpoint to this obvious oversight in the game.. how many port field gun kills do you have this month as a result of this? An unbiased viewpoint will always hold more credibility than one with a not-so-hidden agenda. :p
Hopefully this can be tinkered with easily... and soon.
~Wes
no hidden agenda, i dont care if HT leaves as is, or changes it. i will use it how HT sets it. problem is alot here get upset if its not
THIER way.
I have no AA gun kills from resupply of ack. i just kept the ack up to keep the base, while others in my country, manned AA and GVs at the port. in fact id say 90% of the resupply i did
ended in ditch