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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 10:14:05 AM

Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 10:14:05 AM
Eleven thousand soldiers
   lay beneath the dirt and stone,
   all buried on a distant land
   so far away from home.

   For just a strip of dismal beach
   they paid a hero's price,
   to save a foreign nation
   they all made the sacrifice.

   And now the shores of Normandy
   are lined with blocks of white:
   Americans who didn't turn
   from someone else's plight.

   Eleven thousand reasons
   for the French to take our side,
   but in the moment of our need,
   they chose to run and hide.

   Chirac said every war means loss,
   perhaps for France that's true,
   for they've lost every battle
   since the days of Waterloo.

   Without a soldier worth a darn
   to be found within the region,
   the French became the only land
   to need a Foreign Legion.

   You French all say we're arrogant.
   Well, we've earned the right--
   we saved your sorry nation
   when you lacked the guts to fight.

   But now you've made a big mistake,
   and one that you'll regret;
   you took sides with our enemies,
   and that we won't forget.

   It wasn't just our citizens
   you spit on when you turned,
   but every one of yours
   who fell the day the towers burned.

   You spit upon our soldiers,
   on our pilots and Marines,
   and now you'll get a little sense
   of just what payback means.

   So keep your Paris fashions,
   your wine and your champagne,
   and find some other market
   that will buy your airplanes.

   And try to find somebody else
   to wear your French cologne,
   for you're about to find out
   what it means to stand alone.

   You see, you need us far more
   than we ever needed you.
   America has better friends
   who know how to be true.

   I'd rather stand with warriors
   who have the will and might,
   than huddle in the dark
   with those whose only flag is white.

   I'll take the Brits, the Aussies,
   the Israelis and the rest,
   for when it comes to valor
   we have seen that they're the best.

   We'll count on one another
   as we face a moment dire,
   while you sit on the sideline
   with a sign, "friendship for hire."

   We'll win this war without you
   and we'll total up the cost,
   and take it from your foreign aid,
   and then you'll feel the loss.

   And when your nation starts to fall,
   well, Frenchie, you can spare us,
   just call the Germans for a hand,
   they know the way to Paris.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 11:03:08 AM
Well, we've earned the right--
we saved your sorry nation
when you lacked the guts to fight.

Perhaps you should look at the number of French soldiers and civilians who took up arms and died for their nation...

Something like 10,000 resistance members disrupted some 200 means of transportation to the beaches so we could land, without the worry of being ambushed once we took the beach..

Poem started good, till it started bashing..
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: AWMac on November 23, 2004, 11:18:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hawklore


Something like 10,000 resistance members disrupted some 200 means of transportation to the beaches so we could land, without the worry of being ambushed once we took the beach..




Sources?

:confused:


BTW Great Poem!!!

:aok
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 11:20:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Sources?

:confused:


BTW Great Poem!!!

:aok


This isn't the french resistance but free french forces fighting Vichy France and the Germans in WWII

100,000 Free French soldiers fought in the Allied side in Italy in 1943. By the time of the Normandy Invasion, the Free French forces numbered more than 400,000 people.

http://vampiro.bizhosting.com/freefrench.html

http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/text/x18/xm1867.html

I still can't find exact source, but do some research there were quite a few French fighting the germans before the invasion, and even more after..
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on November 23, 2004, 11:23:51 AM
That poem really pushed the bounds of stupid to a new limit.
-SW
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 11:26:48 AM
QUOTE]Originally posted by Hawklore
Well, we've earned the right--
we saved your sorry nation
when you lacked the guts to fight.

Perhaps you should look at the number of French soldiers and civilians who took up arms and died for their nation...

Something like 10,000 resistance members disrupted some 200 means of transportation to the beaches so we could land, without the worry of being ambushed once we took the beach..

Poem started good, till it started bashing..
[/QUOTE]

then again Hawk, maybe you should take the time to visit the American graves in Normandy, look over Point de Hoc, walk the sands of Omaha, or marvel over the leftovers of the Mulberry harbor in Arromanches.

The US lost over 200,000 liberating Europe along with the British, Canadiens, and a host of other contributors.  The French contributio, specifically the resistance was a help.  The Vichy on the other hand or the large numbers of French civilians that collaborated knowingly with the Nazi's were memorable as well.  

It seems to me, that you are quick to defend the french government on almost everything they do, including turning their backs on yet another necessity of this century.  But, hey, as long as the French can trade arms for oil with dictators thats alright by you, huh?

Maybe the next time you play reenactor as a little frenchie, you ought to realise that it was the dead US, British, and Canadiens laying in the soils of Normandy and beyond that gave you the ability to do that.

Just a thought though.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Staga on November 23, 2004, 11:29:22 AM
I really think US should get a divorce from the rest of the world, cut all the ties to the outside world and... errr... Hey you're already doing it :)
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 11:30:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Just a thought though.


Perhaps you shouldn't be quite so quick to judge, and quite so quick to be harsh, If we want to go farther back, the french aided us in withdrawing from the English Crown, so perhaps you should realize were damn straight even..

Your ignorant, I'm sick of this bashing..

You know, France didn't have to help at all, but they did, to the best of their ability, your calling France by those who do not care, that would be like calling America satans land, by looking only at it's goverment, and by looking at Iraq and saying they are all terroists by only looking at the extremist Muslim/Terroists..
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Staga on November 23, 2004, 11:36:28 AM
Bodhi; let's see how many lives other nations in Europe lost in WW2:

Russians 7.500.000
Germans   3.500.000
Hungarians 410.000
Yugoslavs 410.000
British and Commonwealth 400.000
Italians 330.000
Polish 320.000
Rumanians 300.000
Americans 290.000
French 210.000
Finns 85.000
Belgians 12.000
Dutch 12.000

Wow you made it to the top-ten, congratulations!
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 11:38:36 AM
Thanks Staga, those were some of the numbers I were looking for..
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: AWMac on November 23, 2004, 11:38:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hawklore
This isn't the french resistance but free french forces fighting Vichy France and the Germans in WWII

100,000 Free French soldiers fought in the Allied side in Italy in 1943. By the time of the Normandy Invasion, the Free French forces numbered more than 400,000 people.

http://vampiro.bizhosting.com/freefrench.html

http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/text/x18/xm1867.html

I still can't find exact source, but do some research there were quite a few French fighting the germans before the invasion, and even more after..


Can't find where it says anything about destroying 200 means of transportation to prevent the ambushes on D-Day....
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 11:40:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Can't find where it says anything about destroying 200 means of transportation to prevent the ambushes on D-Day....


Yeah I'm still searching for that part..

-edit- It may of been communications -/edit-
Title: Re: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: straffo on November 23, 2004, 11:45:03 AM
Eleven thousand soldiers
lay beneath the dirt and stone,
all buried on a distant land
so far away from home.

error #1  

Chirac said every war means loss,
perhaps for France that's true,
for they've lost every battle
since the days of Waterloo.

error #2
 
Without a soldier worth a darn
to be found within the region,
the French became the only land
to need a Foreign Legion.

error #3

You French all say we're arrogant.
Well, we've earned the right--
we saved your sorry nation
when you lacked the guts to fight.

error #4

And try to find somebody else
to wear your French cologne,
for you're about to find out
what it means to stand alone.

error #5 (wtf is french Cologne ?)

You see, you need us far more
than we ever needed you.
America has better friends
who know how to be true.

error #6

I'd rather stand with warriors
who have the will and might,
than huddle in the dark
with those whose only flag is white.

error #7 actually it's tricolor
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Neubob on November 23, 2004, 11:46:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hawklore


You know, France didn't have to help at all, but they did, to the best of their ability..


They weren't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. They were doing it because the British, their rivals, happened to be on the opposite side of the war.

Personally, I don't harbor resentment. I've spent enough time in France(mostly in the south) to know that, like all places, the stereotypes don't hold out for too long. There's good in every group of people, enough of it to warrant a second, third and fourth chance to redeem the mistakes of the past.

This is the way I would want to be treated...



Quote
Originally posted by Staga
I really think US should get a divorce from the rest of the world, cut all the ties to the outside world and... errr... Hey you're already doing it :)


We've tried it before, Staga.... Don't you worry though, when your big, abusive husband starts ***** slapping you around, I'm sure we'll be there for you.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: deSelys on November 23, 2004, 12:10:01 PM
This disgrace of a poem only hurts the honor the brave american soldiers who fell on the beaches of D-Day.


IMO.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Airhead on November 23, 2004, 12:22:38 PM
"It seems to me, that you are quick to defend the french government on almost everything they do"-
Bodhi

It seems to me you are quick to start an anti-French thread for no better reason than you want to start a French-bashing pig pile.

:rolleyes:
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 12:24:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
They weren't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. They were doing it because the British, their rivals, happened to be on the opposite side of the war.

Personally, I don't harbor resentment. I've spent enough time in France(mostly in the south) to know that, like all places, the stereotypes don't hold out for too long. There's good in every group of people, enough of it to warrant a second, third and fourth chance to redeem the mistakes of the past.

This is the way I would want to be treated...



 

We've tried it before, Staga.... Don't you worry though, when your big, abusive husband starts ***** slapping you around, I'm sure we'll be there for you.


well said.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 12:30:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hawklore
Perhaps you shouldn't be quite so quick to judge, and quite so quick to be harsh, If we want to go farther back, the french aided us in withdrawing from the English Crown, so perhaps you should realize were damn straight even..

Your ignorant, I'm sick of this bashing..

You know, France didn't have to help at all, but they did, to the best of their ability, your calling France by those who do not care, that would be like calling America satans land, by looking only at it's goverment, and by looking at Iraq and saying they are all terroists by only looking at the extremist Muslim/Terroists..


I am not judging, and I am not ignorant, but I appreciate the personal attack.  As for your statement regarding France not having to help us out during the Revolutionary War, maybe you ought to look at it from the perspective of Neubob, as in their archrival England was on the other side, or maybe you could look a little bit further back at the French and Indian War.... Their the French and the Indians were content to kill off settlers just to get back at England...  Yeah, the French Government is a peach, but ONLY when it suits them.  Notice I said the French government, NOT the people.  Having traveled much of France, I too find most of the stereotypes lost on the people like Neubob said, but as for policy, the French Gov't is the ghey suxxors...

as for you analogy, go back and look up the word, then try again... :rolleyes:
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 12:31:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
"It seems to me, that you are quick to defend the french government on almost everything they do"-
Bodhi

It seems to me you are quick to start an anti-French thread for no better reason than you want to start a French-bashing pig pile.

:rolleyes:


amazing statement... seeings that this is my first anti-french thread.

btw, that name of your's truly fits...
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 12:31:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
I am not judging, and I am not ignorant, but I appreciate the personal attack.  As for your statement regarding France not having to help us out during the Revolutionary War, maybe you ought to look at it from the perspective of Neubob, as in their archrival England was on the other side, or maybe you could look a little bit further back at the French and Indian War.... Their the French and the Indians were content to kill off settlers just to get back at England...  Yeah, the French Government is a peach, but ONLY when it suits them.  Notice I said the French government, NOT the people.  Having traveled much of France, I too find most of the stereotypes lost on the people like Neubob said, but as for policy, the French Gov't is the ghey suxxors...

as for you analogy, go back and look up the word, then try again... :rolleyes:


*uc* off you unpatriotic bit**
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Saurdaukar on November 23, 2004, 12:36:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
That poem really pushed the bounds of stupid to a new limit.
-SW


STAB HIM!!!  ARRRRGH!!!
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 12:37:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Bodhi; let's see how many lives other nations in Europe lost in WW2:

Russians 7.500.000
Germans   3.500.000
Hungarians 410.000
Yugoslavs 410.000
British and Commonwealth 400.000
Italians 330.000
Polish 320.000
Rumanians 300.000
Americans 290.000
French 210.000
Finns 85.000
Belgians 12.000
Dutch 12.000

Wow you made it to the top-ten, congratulations!


gee, lets quote another...

http://ww2bodycount.netfirms.com/

World War 2 Body Count

The wwii Casualties by country

Axis ww2 casualties

Country Military casualties / Civilian casualties
Germany 3.250.000 / 3.810.000
Austria 230.000 / 80.000
Italy 330.000 / 85.000
Rumania 200.000 / 465.000
Hungary 120.000 / 280.000
Bulgaria 10.000 / 7.000
Finland 90.000 / n/a
Japan 1.700.000 / 360.000

 

Allied ww2 casualties

Country Military casualties / Civilian casualties
British Empire and Commonwealth 452.000 / 60.000
France 250.000 / 360.000
USA 295.000 ---
Soviet Union 13.600.000 / 7.700.000
Belgium 10.000 / 90.000
Holland 10.000 / 190.000
Norway 10.000 / n/a
Poland 120.000 / 5.300.000
Greece 20.000 / 80.000
Yugoslavia 300.000 / 1.300.000
Checoslovaquia 20.000 / 330.000
China 3.500.000 / 10.000.000
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 12:39:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
gee, lets quote another...

http://ww2bodycount.netfirms.com/

World War 2 Body Count

The wwii Casualties by country

Axis ww2 casualties

Country Military casualties / Civilian casualties
Germany 3.250.000 / 3.810.000
Austria 230.000 / 80.000
Italy 330.000 / 85.000
Rumania 200.000 / 465.000
Hungary 120.000 / 280.000
Bulgaria 10.000 / 7.000
Finland 90.000 / n/a
Japan 1.700.000 / 360.000

 

Allied ww2 casualties

Country Military casualties / Civilian casualties
British Empire and Commonwealth 452.000 / 60.000
France 250.000 / 360.000
USA 295.000 ---
Soviet Union 13.600.000 / 7.700.000
Belgium 10.000 / 90.000
Holland 10.000 / 190.000
Norway 10.000 / n/a
Poland 120.000 / 5.300.000
Greece 20.000 / 80.000
Yugoslavia 300.000 / 1.300.000
Checoslovaquia 20.000 / 330.000
China 3.500.000 / 10.000.000


Theres more casualties for france in your quote Bodhi, you dug yourself deeper
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 12:39:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hawklore
*uc* off you unpatriotic bit**


nice personal attack their hawklore.

really nice... and this is the playground?
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 12:40:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
nice personal attack their hawklore.

really nice... and this is the playground?


Hey you wanna excersise your free speech, let me do the same..
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 12:41:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hawklore
Theres more casualties for france in your quote Bodhi, you dug yourself deeper


Maybe I pointed out the disparaging numbers in most casualty reports with the exception of the Brits, Canada and the US show that most of those figures are widely innacurate...

Dug myself deeper, hell... you going to insult my family next?


:lol
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Airhead on November 23, 2004, 12:42:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
amazing statement... seeings that this is my first anti-french thread.

btw, that name of your's truly fits...


First Anti-French you've authored, maybe, but whatever, at least you can admit it's an anti-French thread, so it'll be easier for Skuzzy to lock it as having no intent other than to start a pig-pile.

Sheeesh, we have TWO anti-French threads today...all we need is another "kill Moslems" thread and maybe a "bling bling gangsta rapper thug life wannabee" thread  linking up to a black athelete and we'll have our quota of Bulletin Board hate for the week...just in time for Thanksgiving!
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 12:43:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Maybe I pointed out the disparaging numbers in most casualty reports with the exception of the Brits, Canada and the US show that most of those figures are widely innacurate...

Dug myself deeper, hell... you going to insult my family next?


:lol


If thats what it takes to show a moron to the true facts..
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Muckmaw1 on November 23, 2004, 12:44:50 PM
The situation between our 2 countries will never improve if we continue to bash each other.

This may sound odd, coming from a known France-Basher.

But I've decided never again to insult France in some small effort to begin improving the situation.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 12:53:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
First Anti-French you've authored, maybe, but whatever, at least you can admit it's an anti-French thread, so it'll be easier for Skuzzy to lock it as having no intent other than to start a pig-pile.

Sheeesh, we have TWO anti-French threads today...all we need is another "kill Moslems" thread and maybe a "bling bling gangsta rapper thug life wannabee" thread  linking up to a black athelete and we'll have our quota of Bulletin Board hate for the week...just in time for Thanksgiving!


This is not a French Bashing thread, it is a statement in a poem to the French Government.  If you wish to turn into one, just to try to surpress an opinion by an author, than fine, but it is not a french bashing thread until people try to turn it into one.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: AWMac on November 23, 2004, 12:57:37 PM
I say we start a "Anti-Home Taught" bashing thread.  

Hawklore we can do without the Vulgar Personal Attacks.

BTW have you read Pyro's Sticky at the top of this Forum?

You can read, right?

:rolleyes:
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on November 23, 2004, 01:02:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
STAB HIM!!!  ARRRRGH!!!


Mutineers will be stabbed to death and their loot looted.

HARRRRRRRRRRRRR!
-SW
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on November 23, 2004, 01:10:19 PM
You do realize that by arguing with him you give him the attention he wants right?  Let it go.  As the old saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink".  

Either he likes the smell of what he shovels, in which case you'll never convince him it stinks, or he doesnt really believe it and plays in crap for attention, in which case you play into his hands by arguing with him.  In either case, its not worth more than one comment.

If you want a poem honoring the dead in Normandy, there was one (I cant find it anymore) called (I think) "The bells of Henri Chapelle".  Wish I could find it again.  If anyone could point me to it I would be grateful.

Partisan bickering and political bullcrap does nothing to honor the men who died on those beaches in the assult on D-Day or any of the battles thereafter to free Europe.  American, French, Brit, Aussie, it doesnt matter.  Everyone is entiltled to their opinion, on France or anything else.  Thats all it is, is an opinion.


Thanks.

SA2
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Airhead on November 23, 2004, 01:14:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
This is not a French Bashing thread, it is a statement in a poem to the French Government.  



I laughed so hard reading this that I was crying.

Look, I don't give a Rat's Arse if if you're a Racist, or you want to nuke Arabs, or you hate the French- but when you post something that represents your anti-Arab, anti-French, or anti-African American POV, and you're called on it, at LEAST have the courage to stand by your convictions... instead of saying "that's not what I meant at all." Cause that's bullchite and we all know it.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on November 23, 2004, 01:26:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
I say we start a "Anti-Home Taught" bashing thread.  

Hawklore we can do without the Vulgar Personal Attacks.

BTW have you read Pyro's Sticky at the top of this Forum?

You can read, right?

:rolleyes:




Not even worth coming up with an original one.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Crumpp on November 23, 2004, 01:31:33 PM
Quote
This isn't the french resistance but free french forces fighting Vichy France and the Germans in WWII


So, the French were fighting to free thier own country.  I'm impressed.

So what is up with the French Fleet?

Crumpp
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: AWMac on November 23, 2004, 01:33:19 PM
I guess you missed the hidden sarcasm.  Oh well.

:)
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 01:34:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
I laughed so hard reading this that I was crying.

Look, I don't give a Rat's Arse if if you're a Racist, or you want to nuke Arabs, or you hate the French- but when you post something that represents your anti-Arab, anti-French, or anti-African American POV, and you're called on it, at LEAST have the courage to stand by your convictions... instead of saying "that's not what I meant at all." Cause that's bullchite and we all know it.


Glad you can read my mind Airhead... maybe you should start a 900 number, maybe like Madamn Cleo...

:rolleyes:
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Furball on November 23, 2004, 01:47:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
So, the French were fighting to free thier own country.  I'm impressed.

So what is up with the French Fleet?

Crumpp


they go glub-glub when they refused to scuttle or surrender and fight with the RN.

Its a shame for those French sailors but something had to be done.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: spitfiremkv on November 23, 2004, 02:02:45 PM
I'd be awesome if the writer had any talent...
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Airhead on November 23, 2004, 02:14:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Glad you can read my mind Airhead... maybe you should start a 900 number, maybe like Madamn Cleo...

:rolleyes:


I didn't have to read your mind, Bodhi- all I had to do was read what you wrote.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: straffo on November 23, 2004, 02:29:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
they go glub-glub when they refused to scuttle or surrender and fight with the RN.

Its a shame for those French sailors but something had to be done.


Quite a distortion Furbi and you know that.
If you don't see why ask any RN guy with a bit of historical background.

Crumpp I appreciate the sarcasm ,btw have you heard of de Lattre ,Juin or Leclerc ?
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Furball on November 23, 2004, 02:32:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Quite a distortion Furbi and you know that.
If you don't see why ask any RN guy with a bit of historical background.


My grandfather was RN, never spoke to him about it.

Why dont you tell me what happened?
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: straffo on November 23, 2004, 02:34:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Muckmaw1
The situation between our 2 countries will never improve if we continue to bash each other.

This may sound odd, coming from a known France-Basher.

But I've decided never again to insult France in some small effort to begin improving the situation.


I will appreciate, thanks.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: straffo on November 23, 2004, 02:37:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
My grandfather was RN, never spoke to him about it.

Why dont you tell me what happened?


Your previous post let think they had a choice, being soldier they had to follow their orders.

Later Toulon prooved Mers El Kebir was an "unnecessary necessity".
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Muckmaw1 on November 23, 2004, 02:40:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I will appreciate, thanks.


It's a two way street, as I am sure you know.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: straffo on November 23, 2004, 02:45:21 PM
I know, I'm perhaps guilty of America bashing  but I don't remember having started this kind of thread in the past

Note that I don't pretend to be complety white nor innocent.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Furball on November 23, 2004, 02:48:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Your previous post let think they had a choice, being soldier they had to follow their orders.

Later Toulon prooved Mers El Kebir was an "unnecessary necessity".


Yes, but someone had to make a decision what to do, individual sailors no, country yes - sorry that was what i was implying.

Quote
Originally posted by straffo

Later Toulon prooved Mers El Kebir was an "unnecessary necessity".


B.S.  That is coming from the defeated.

Britain's strongest asset, was, and always was the Royal Navy, if the French fleet had fallen into Nazi hands then we would have been in trouble.

As i said, its a shame it happened.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: straffo on November 23, 2004, 03:03:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
B.S.  That is coming from the defeated.

Britain's strongest asset, was, and always was the Royal Navy, if the French fleet had fallen into Nazi hands then we would have been in trouble.

As i said, its a shame it happened.


I'm not sure to really understand the part I bolded, not that I will have personnaly acted differently than Churchill at this point of the war.

I guess, I will have ended to the same conclusion as him.

I've found a nice article in the past about Mers El kebir ,you should read it IMO , the source look to be neutral enought (at least it won't hurt our respective national pride :))
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/merselkebir.aspx
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 03:10:00 PM
I tried, you have your opinion, I have mine...
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Furball on November 23, 2004, 03:25:54 PM
from that link

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In March of 1940 the French and British had concluded an agreement that neither would ever sign a separate peace treaty with the Nazis. Three months later Paris had fallen and a beleaguered Premier Paul Reynaud petitioned Churchill to be released from the obligation. Churchill responded in typical fashion. The French would be permitted to explore conditions for an armistice but only on condition that the French fleet set sail for British ports. It was the fourth largest fleet in the world and in German hands could wreak havoc on Allied shipping. He also set forth a proposal of “indissoluble union” between Great Britain and France.


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French Marine Minister Admiral Darlan had given Churchill his word that the French fleet would never be allowed to fall into the hands of the Nazis. But what neither knew at the time was that Hitler had no interest in acquiring it—only neutralizing it by scuttling or by internment for the duration in French ports “under German or Italian supervision”.


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The British High Command was very wary of the neutralization of the French fleet in ports of Unoccupied France, as some had proposed. They feared that the Germans might at some point be able to take possession by threatening to torch Paris or Marseille unless the fleet were handed over. After all, Hitler had already displayed far more grievous treachery than this.


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On July 3rd, Vice Admiral Sir James Somerville’s “Force H” stood off Mers-el-Kebir. It included the battleships RESOLUTION and VALIANT, the battle cruiser HOOD, the carrier ARK ROYAL, two cruisers and eleven destroyers. His orders were to give French Admiral Gensoul four choices. He could join the British fleet or sail to a British port and have his crews repatriated to Unoccupied France. He could sail to Martinique or the U.S. where his ships would be decommissioned. Or alternately, he could scuttle his ships where they lay anchored. If Gensoul refused all four options, the Royal Navy was simply ordered to destroy the French fleet.



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They negotiated for nearly two hours, but Gensoul was not optimistic. He had already ordered all ships to fire up their boilers in preparation for action. During these final talks, Gensoul showed Holland a copy of his orders from Admiral Darlan. They revealed that if any foreign power were to try to seize control of the French fleet they were to immediately set sail either for the United States or be scuttled. But in retrospect it is clear that Gensoul was merely trying to buy time to allow his ships to prepare for battle.



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In the final and most critical failure of communication, Gensoul failed to send Admiral Darlan the full text of the British terms, which would have permitted the French fleet to sail to the United States. It is doubtful that it would have made a difference. Gallic pride prevented Gensoul from any willingness to negotiate while under threat of British fire. And to make matters even worse, while negotiations were still underway, British Swordfish planes from the carrier ARK ROYAL were already dropping magnetic mines in an attempt to prevent the French fleet from leaving port.


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At 5:26 P.M. Somerville radioed Gensoul that if none of the British proposals were accepted within 15 minutes, he would be obliged to “sink your ships”. Both sides had boxed themselves into a corner from which there was no honorable retreat. It was one of the great naval tragedies of the Second World War.


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As Captain Holland was leaving the DUNQUERQUE he saluted the French tricolor smartly with tears in his eyes. As he boarded the boat for his return to the FOXHOUND he heard the call to battle stations sound over the fleet’s speakers. He said later that he couldn’t believe all this was happening.


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With tears in his eyes he spoke of the tragedy of his forces having to fire on their former allies. There were cheers on both benches, but some may have recalled how the whole affair might have been avoided by better communication and by just a little more trust and good will.


Yes it was a shame.  But necessary for the Allies. There was no alternative left.

Just sucks that the politicians and commanders let it happen.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: koda76 on November 23, 2004, 03:26:54 PM
Hey....saw a french rifle for sale on e-bay.......only been dropped once!
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 03:28:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by koda76
Hey....saw a french rifle for sale on e-bay.......only been dropped once!


How original..
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: koda76 on November 23, 2004, 03:31:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by hawklore:
How original..


How original....
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Furball on November 23, 2004, 03:32:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hawklore
How original..


Quote
Originally posted by koda76

How original....


How original.......
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Airhead on November 23, 2004, 03:37:41 PM
Mind you, I'm not doing any Japan-bashing, but since we're all talking about other countries today I thought I'd share this really awsome poem that kinda expresses how most Americans feel....


The Stores of Wakikii

Eleven thousand immigrants
On the beach at Wakikii,
Eleven thousand immigrants
And they all speak Japanese.

It's just a strip of dismal beach
They once bombed from the sky
They found out what they could not take
They most certainly could buy.

And now the stores of Wakikii
Are mostly owned by Asians
They claim it's cause they work hard
But I blame immigration.

Eleven thousand white people
Are signing up for welfare
Wakikii just ain't the same
The Japanese don't care.

It's clear they've finally conquered us
Without firing a shot
Once the domain of white people,
Wakikii has gone to pot.

So remember back to yesteryear
As you walk along the shore
Remember back to the olden days
When the whites owned all the stores.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Bodhi on November 23, 2004, 03:43:37 PM
only one peom per thread.... hijack in progress...

waaaahhhhh Skuzzy....
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Crumpp on November 23, 2004, 04:01:12 PM
Quote
de Lattre ,Juin or Leclerc


Yes I do know who they are, Straffo.  Great Soldiers and France should be proud of them.

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But I've decided never again to insult France in some small effort to begin improving the situation.


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I know, I'm perhaps guilty of America bashing but I don't remember having started this kind of thread in the past


Personal relationships cement alliances.  Guess many Americans are hurt that France acts less like a personal friend of the USA and more like a Government seeking to increase it's own influence in the world.

Crumpp
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: AKIron on November 23, 2004, 04:03:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
I really think US should get a divorce from the rest of the world, cut all the ties to the outside world and... errr... Hey you're already doing it :)


If we did where the hell would you go to post your *****ing and whining?
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Staga on November 23, 2004, 06:13:34 PM
Don't worry AKIron; You're going to be my b1tch for a long time :)
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: hawker238 on November 23, 2004, 06:33:44 PM
Hawklore, don't even bother with people such as Bohdi, they're not worth the time.

Thanks for the links, I didn't know the Free French contribution was so large.

Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Hawklore on November 23, 2004, 06:36:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hawker238
Hawklore, don't even bother with people such as Bohdi, they're not worth the time.

Thanks for the links, I didn't know the Free French contribution was so large.



Np..

I'm trying to find more out myself...

Just so sad that people treat others that way when they have no room to talk....

Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: AKIron on November 23, 2004, 06:41:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Don't worry AKIron; You're going to be my b1tch for a long time :)


(http://home.no/femma/smilies/Moonie.gif)
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Airhead on November 23, 2004, 06:43:17 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Staga
Don't worry AKIron; You're going to be my b1tch for a long time  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'd hit it.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Neubob on November 23, 2004, 07:30:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Don't worry AKIron; You're going to be my b1tch for a long time :)


Won't your right hand get jealous?
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: SunTracker on November 23, 2004, 07:36:48 PM
That was a nice poem.

But the U.S. invaded France to get to Germany.  Germany had been killing thousands of Americans since 1942, within sight of mainland USA.  

At least 4 German subs lie within a few hours boatride on the East and Gulf coast of USA.
Title: Awesome Poem!!!
Post by: Airhead on November 23, 2004, 07:46:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
That was a nice poem.

 


Thank you.

White Hawaiians are being displaced from their native homeland by harder working, more intelligent Asians- it's a tragedy.