Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: 1K3 on November 23, 2004, 03:34:45 PM
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Can we have 800 easy cheapo P-51C? :)
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Same as our P51B?
Different skin should do.
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Originally posted by 1K3
Can we have 800 easy cheapo P-51C? :)
P51C and B are identical a/c. Only difference was the location of the factory.
I believe the C's were built in Texas, and the B's in California...feel free to correct me (and I'm sure someone will)
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
P51C and B are identical a/c. Only difference was the location of the factory.
I believe the C's were built in Texas, and the B's in California...feel free to correct me (and I'm sure someone will)
the C (if i reacall) is armed with 4x 20mms
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Originally posted by 1K3
the C (if i reacall) is armed with 4x 20mms
I thought that was the P-51A, and I'm not sure it saw combat...
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It was simply the P-51 with the 4x20mm (and the XP-51B had them too).
gripen
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There were about 200 P-51 (just plain old P-51) built with 4 20mm, they went to the RAF for army co-op duties.
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I would like to see the malcolm-hood version and a A-36A
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The P-51C was a P-51B (armed with 4 .50cal MG's) that was built in Texas as I recall... I think Red Tail got it right. I think Il2: Forgotten Battles caused some confusion as they have the P51C with the malcom hood. But in reality the B was just as likely to have that feature. As far as I know only the original run of P-51's had the 20mm cannons which were removed on the P-51A.
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P51C was a different factory, that was about all.
4x.50's
Many went to the RAF under the Mustang III designation.
You don't need HTC for it, just another skin.
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Most of the Cs had the more powerful V1650-7 engine.
http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51specs.shtml
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51.html
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Originally posted by 1K3
the C (if i reacall) is armed with 4x 20mms
No, the P-51 (no letter designation) was armed with four Hispanos. These were taken from a lot built for the Brits, who designated them as Mustang Mk.Ia
P-51B were built ouside of Los Angeles. P-51Cs were built in Dallas. About 2/3rds of the P-51Cs had the same dash number Packard-Merlin as the P-51D. So, if HTC does the P-51C, it should have the same performance as the P-51D, but a tad faster due to less overall drag (bubble canopy and cut-down rear fuselage made more drag than the earlier model).
Both the P-51B and C were armed with four .50 caliber Brownings.
My regards,
Widewing
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I thought the 51B/C both had the Merlin and that only the 51 was the one with the Allison.
So the 51B we have in game is modeled with an Allison?
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no, our 51B has a Merlin built by Packard
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The C was in production a bit longer then the B in California to fill out some British orders.
C models are more then likely the razorback 51s that folks would find in late 44 early 45 still flying alongside the Ds. C models also were more apt to be the ones converted to photo recce F6C Mustangs. The last Mustang kill of the war in Europe was by a Photo Recce F6C in May of 45.
But! its the same bird as the California built B models. C's as already mentioned were produced in Texas.
Dan/Slack
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If I recall properly the only ones with the 4x20mm were the F6C (or whatever they were called) and on the port side of the radio compartment they had a bubble window housing the recon camera. They were almost all recon birds, I believe. The brits didn't think much of the P51 at first, seems logical that they'd use it just for recon.
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OK guys, lets clear it up once and for all. No operational Merlin Mustangs with 4 20mm cannon :)
There were some early Allison Mustangs with the 4 20mm but not operational Merlin Mustangs with that armament.
The only Merlin Mustang I know of that carried that load out was the second XP51B
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1101279041_merlinprotomustang.jpg)
The only operational Mustang with the 4 20mms had the Allison engine. Ironically, in the AH low alt, tac air environment, this bird would do quite well.
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1101279014_p51.jpg)
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Originally posted by Krusty
If I recall properly the only ones with the 4x20mm were the F6C (or whatever they were called) and on the port side of the radio compartment they had a bubble window housing the recon camera. They were almost all recon birds, I believe. The brits didn't think much of the P51 at first, seems logical that they'd use it just for recon.
Krusty, I think this is the bird you are thinking of. It was an experimental Allison P51 that they used to test camo and potential recce set ups. It had the bulged window behind the cockpit. It's not an F6C
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1101279624_modifiedp51.jpg)
This is an F6C in it usual set up with the malcom hood and the recce gear either behind the pilot or lower in the fuselage on the left side.
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1101279653_f6c.jpg)
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Originally posted by Krusty
If I recall properly the only ones with the 4x20mm were the F6C (or whatever they were called) and on the port side of the radio compartment they had a bubble window housing the recon camera. They were almost all recon birds, I believe. The brits didn't think much of the P51 at first, seems logical that they'd use it just for recon.
Yes very logical for the Brits to use the Pony for recce considering its speed at low altitude.
"A total of 91 aircraft from the Block-10 production lot (71 P-51B-10-NAs and 20 P-51C-10-NTs) were fitted with two oblique K24 cameras, or a K17 and a K22, to become F-6C-NA or -NT photo aircraft. Most of these aircraft retained their guns. In each case the cameras were mounted immediately in front of the structural break ahead of the tailwheel, looking out the left side."
from the site mentioned in a post above Krusty.
On the engine/model:
"With the introduction of the P-51C-5-NT onto the Dallas production line and the P-51B-15-NA in the Inglewood production line, the Packard V-1560-7 engine was adopted as standard. It offered 1450 hp for take off and a war emergency rating of 1695 hp at 10,300 feet. Maximum speed at 20,000 feet was reduced from 440 to 435 mph, but increased from 430 to 439 mph at 25,000 feet. 398 P-51B-10-NAs, 390 P-51B-15-NAs, and 1350 P-51C-10-NTs were built, all powered by the V-1650-7 engine."
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Originally posted by Guppy35
.....The only operational Mustang with the 4 20mms had the Allison engine. Ironically, in the AH low alt, tac air environment, this bird would do quite well.....
I have a book, Patton's Gap[/b], by a combat/rece pilot who flew the 0.50/0.303 armed version of this bird over NW France. His impression was the, while it was faster than anything lese out there, it's manuverability was quite poor...did the early mustangs have the full 269 gallons of tankage the Ds did? maybe this guy had a full fuselage tank all the time?
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Originally posted by bunch
I have a book, Patton's Gap, by a combat/rece pilot who flew the 0.50/0.303 armed version of this bird over NW France. His impression was the, while it was faster than anything lese out there, it's manuverability was quite poor...did the early mustangs have the full 269 gallons of tankage the Ds did? maybe this guy had a full fuselage tank all the time? [/B]
If you had checked out the link posted earlier, your question would have been answered.
"In the pursuit of still more range, a P-51B was experimentally fitted with an extra 85 US gallon self-sealing fuel tank behind the pilot's seat, bringing the total fuel to 419 US gallons (including 2 drop tanks). Although the Mustang already offered outstanding range performance, this additional fuel made it even better. This extra range was being demanded by expanding operations in both the European and Pacific theatres. However, this extra fuel tank moved the center of gravity aft, which made the directional stability of the Mustang quite poor, so that the pilot would have to spend the first hour or so concentrating on keeping his airplane pointed in the right direction until this new tank was finally empty. The last 550 P-51B-5-NAs were fitted with this extra tank, becoming P-51B-7-NAs, and into P-51C-1-NTs, becoming P-51C-3-NT. In addition, some earlier P-51Bs and Cs were modified in the field to accommodate this tank. In service, however, the directional instability caused by the presence of a full fuel tank behind the pilot's seat was a hazard for new or inexperienced pilots, and the tank was usually restricted to 65 US gallons."
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From a gameplay standpoint I don't think adding the P-51 with four 20mm cannon would be a good idea. It would simply be another extremely rare American aircraft that would be seen way more often than it should be and with P-51 flaps being what they are in AH you'd have a quad Hispano aircraft as fast as an La-5FN down low that turns like a Spitfire. I don't think that would be good for the game.
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Are you joking? It'd be great for the MA... people would fly it.
Remember, path of least resistance.
The P-51 would be a greased path... people'd love it.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Are you joking? It'd be great for the MA... people would fly it.
Remember, path of least resistance.
The P-51 would be a greased path... people'd love it.
Yes, it would be great for the MA. Just like the F4U-1C.
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I didn't invent the MA.
What makes a plane popular?
One of two things.
Either it has better performance than every other plane (la7), or
it has good performance and Hispanos (Tiffie, F4U-1C).
Hell, the Ki-84 is better than a Spit-9, handling wise. Why is it going to be a solid 6-7 after the La-7, P-51, Spits (x3), and Tiffie? Edit: Forgot the Niki.
Firepower.
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Originally posted by bunch
I have a book, Patton's Gap, by a combat/rece pilot who flew the 0.50/0.303 armed version of this bird over NW France. His impression was the, while it was faster than anything lese out there, it's manuverability was quite poor...did the early mustangs have the full 269 gallons of tankage the Ds did? maybe this guy had a full fuselage tank all the time? [/B]
If he is talking about some of the recce modified A model Mustangs with the Allison engine, then it didn't have the fuselage tank. And there were a number of those used in that role alongside Merlin Mustangs
Two images of Allison engined, Malcom hood equipped F6B Mustangs operating with the 107th Tac Recon Squadron during the drive across France etc in late 1944.
Note the D Model from the same squadron in the bottom photo
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1101319626_f6b.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1101319649_f6b2.jpg)
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Originally posted by Karnak
Yes, it would be great for the MA. Just like the F4U-1C.
The C-hog is a relatively rare in the MA, as the plane set continues to expand you could probably unperk it without a problem. I'm having a suprisingly tough time with the "new" Ki-84. It's just unbelievable in the vertical...might be the toughest nut in the game now....
As for the 4 x 20mm on pony...probably about the same impact as the C hog...better performance but I'm guessing less ammo load. C-hog would have roll and dive and bit better handling...pony speed and climb.
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As soon as the F4U-1C is unperked (at some unspecified time in the future), I guarantee that 99% of the La-7 pilots would switch back to it.
Probably some other folks to.
Actually the only reason it got perked was because of the cannons, the performance was ok but not outstanding.
It is practically identical to the F4U-1D, but it consistantly has a K/D that is much much higher with about the same # of kills... why? Simple.. the F4U-1D has the performance to land a snapshot on just about any plane, but then it is dogmeat. The F4U-1c has the firepower to kill in one hit, X4. Practically an insta-kill plane. Plus it is relatively fast on the deck (not a speed demon, but 350-355 or so places it amoung the fastest of the 2nd tier planes).
I'm actually very surprised the Typhoon doesn't see more use, I guess the abysmal roll rate must turn some people off.
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Well, imagine the whines if we had a 4 cannon Spitty. 5mhp slower than our current MkV, but.....:D
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Originally posted by Urchin
I'm actually very surprised the Typhoon doesn't see more use, I guess the abysmal roll rate must turn some people off.
Not only ,think about turn rate and climb rate.
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Wolf14 wrote:
I thought the 51B/C both had the Merlin and that only the 51 was the one with the Allison.
The P-51B/C's were built with Merlin V-1650-3 or V-1650-7 engines. The -3 and -7 have roughly the same HP but different critical altitudes.
The P-51B model we have is modelled with the Merlin V-1650-3 engine.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs