Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sparks on November 25, 2004, 08:50:11 PM
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After I've read another "If it wasn't for us you'd be speaking German" thread and how we should all be grateful etc etc I came across some bits about the US national debt.
Well actually folks the US owes us all a fair bit actually - As it is the US national debt stands at roughly $25,000 per person and around 22% of that is owed abroad (thats where foreign countries have lent the US money so they can pay the welfare bills, buy weapons etc) - that comes down to around $5800 that each and every person in the US owes abroad.
The US is having to borrow another $800 million to pay its day to day bills and much of that will come from abroad - eeven China and South Korea .
Not forgetting the slide of the dollar so the risk in lending this money is considerable.
So before anyone else starts another "you owe your freedom to us" spout then maybe you should consider who you owe your standard of living to at the moment ............................
Let's just call it quits.
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I live in a van by the river. Thank you so gorram much. :D
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Look at it this way.
We could owe it to ya all in Reichmarks..or Rubels:D
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LOL Dred :D
As I said - honors even. :aok
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Well, considering that freedom is priceless, I say America is owed all around no matter what.
However, since we are such nice guys, we'll pay back the debt.
Btw, I suggest you look up how we borrow money. We don't just go to china and say, "Hey man, can I borrow 50 bucks?"
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Btw, I suggest you look up how we borrow money. We don't just go to china and say, "Hey man, can I borrow 50 bucks?"
Yep, you go to the China and say "Hey man, can I borrow 50 bucks? I pay you 60 back"
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Really? They pay 20% interest?
Daaaamn.
Any yanks wanna borrow some money off me?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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Congrats, you created a thread that's as stupid as what you're railing against. I hope that was the intent.
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Lasersailor you're right - you don't just ask for 50 bucks you actually issue things called Treasury bonds which are basically an IOU with interest. And I made a mistake it's not $800 million it's BILLION.
If you value freedom so highly why do you prostitute yourself to the likes of China - you know - the guys who captured a Navy plane and crew of yours, held them and sent the plane back in boxes. China holds billions of dollars of bonds. The same Chinese who shot thousands in Tianamen square for demonstrating.
And just when are you "nice guys" going to pay back this debt?? - Well maybe not you - maybe your kids..........
It may look real rosey now but I wonder what your taxes and education and military budgets would look like if you DIDN'T get the $800 billion you need AND had to run a balanced budget AND had to reduce the debt.
SOB - woo hoo - touched a nerve there or not had your coffee yet??
I'm just sick of this constant assertion that we owe the US everything when in fact the US government has the biggest VISA bill on the planet funded in large part by others.
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Originally posted by Sparks
And just when are you "nice guys" going to pay back this debt?? [/B]
I pay installments annualy in Mexico in a lump sum payment.
Conchita can distribute it out any way she sees fit.
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Originally posted by Sparks
SOB - woo hoo - touched a nerve there or not had your coffee yet??
Ah, I guess that means it wasn't intentional. That's unfortunate. I don't drink coffee, and I don't need to feel offended to point out the irony of your thread. Frankly, I take you about as seriously as any of the idiots who jump at the chance to point out that Europeans somehow owe us something because we "saved you from the Germans" in WWII.
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Lemmegetthisstraight: I don't owe you sh*t, nothing, nada, zilch.
I owe a big thank (and more) you to your grand-dads (in some cases dads or uncles) but I doubt any of you(*) were actualy on Omaha beach. so STOP shoving it into my nose it doesn't make sense.
A big to the guys that were there.
A big to the guys whio are trying to steal/take the credit from them.
* - Maybe Hangtime or Skuzzy were old enough to have been there... this does not apply to them in this case.
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Being "old farts" doesn't necessarily mean they were participating WW2.
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Shaddap you Hiirvy Molko (sp?) :D
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Lemmegetthisstraight: I don't owe you sh*t, nothing, nada, zilch.
I owe a big thank (and more) you to your grand-dads (in some cases dads or uncles) but I doubt any of you(*) were actualy on Omaha beach. so STOP shoving it into my nose it doesn't make sense.
A big to the guys that were there.
A big to the guys whio are trying to steal/take the credit from them.
Well there ya go. Camraderie across the pond and a feeling of united kinship need not live past the greatest generation. It can die off with them. Besides, the era of "super-powers" made it all obsolete. And perhaps the age of terrorism will take it's place. Through it all we can manage to feel a bit of resentment at those former allies we've decided either present a threat to our security or wallet. Lord knows we sure don't need them at our side anymore. Saving face cuts both ways, it seems ... literally. :aok
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Onward Ameristalkers!
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So who owes who here ???
You owe me 2 minutes of my life back for browsing this stupid assed thread.
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We don't just go to a foreign country with treasury bonds. People have to want to buy them. Often private people, sometimes corporations.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Lemmegetthisstraight: I don't owe you sh*t, nothing, nada, zilch.
I owe a big thank (and more) you to your grand-dads (in some cases dads or uncles) but I doubt any of you(*) were actualy on Omaha beach. so STOP shoving it into my nose it doesn't make sense.
A big to the guys that were there.
A big to the guys whio are trying to steal/take the credit from them.
* - Maybe Hangtime or Skuzzy were old enough to have been there... this does not apply to them in this case.
Well I'm certainly not taking credit for WW2, but apparently
you didn't need any help during the cold war either?
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Originally posted by Arlo
I live in a van by the river. Thank you so gorram much. :D
now that was damn funny
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no need to go across the pond to be hated, I'm only an hour away and I do hate you greedy ignorant biatches...:D
p.s.
joking fella's
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Originally posted by SOB
Congrats, you created a thread that's as stupid as what you're railing against. I hope that was the intent.
I agree...now cut me a cheq.:D
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OK- "Ameristalker" ???? - I raise a point about the US having some dependancy on foreign lending and now I'm a stalker ???? ROFLMAO.
From SOBand I don't need to feel offended to point out the irony of your thread.
Irony - "The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning. " - Tell me where the irony is - I meant what I said.
Frankly, I take you about as seriously as any of the idiots who jump at the chance to point out that Europeans somehow owe us something because we "saved you from the Germans" in WWII.
Well I'm glad you view those threads the same way I do - it's what triggered my response to the last one. In that respect then as my comments were not aimed at you so I fail to understand why you've responded so vitriolically or to pitch in at all ? I'll put it down to fishing.
To those that consider the thread idiotic and stupid - perhaps you'd like to say how YOU think having 23% or your countries borrowing in the hands of governments like China is intelligent??
Lasersailor We don't just go to a foreign country with treasury bonds. People have to want to buy them. Often private people, sometimes corporations.
They don't buy a peice of paper and that's it - it's a loan with a garauntee to repay with interest and yes actually you do go initially to foreign governments and see if they will take up bond issues but yes private investers can also take on bonds.
But what if the dollar continues to slide and these investers see the capital value declining not growing - what happens when they want to cash them in ??
Now SOB this is not aimed at you but I am interested in an answer from those who would say the US isn't dependant on anyone outside the borders (those partakers in the threads we hate). The US economy is hanging on borrowing and the fact that the lenders don't call in the loan - lenders like your good friend China. How would you say your personal financial security and that of your children is not in some part in the hands of outside interests ??
To repeat the point I was trying to make on the initial post - there seems to be a correlation between those on this BBS who believe the world owes some un-repayable debt to it for any freedom that exists and those on this BBS who feel the US has no dependancy on foreign countries. There are actually dependancies in both directions.
As a Brit with an American wife and daughter the bit I find worrying is that some of this debt is in the control of contries and corporations not necessarily friendly to either of us.
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Originally posted by Torque
I agree...now cut me a cheq.:D
Sooo, that's $23,000 Canuckbucks. Your check for $0.56 US is OTW! :p
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Just had a bizarre thought..
Maybe americans should thank the nazis for starting the war.
The war caused the USA to get up from the recession of 1930's pretty well and after the war the economy boomed due to europeans having to reconstruct - of course alot of the supplies came from the USA.
Of course it cost lives of several thousand soldiers, but like someone used to say... soldiers are the cheapest war material.
Even more extreme, the europeans gave americans the reason to defend themselves by saying "hey, we helped you keep the freedom from the nazis"
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Originally posted by Sparks
After I've read another "If it wasn't for us you'd be speaking German" thread and how we should all be grateful etc etc I came across some bits about the US national debt.
Well actually folks the US owes us all a fair bit actually - As it is the US national debt stands at roughly $25,000 per person and around 22% of that is owed abroad (thats where foreign countries have lent the US money so they can pay the welfare bills, buy weapons etc) - that comes down to around $5800 that each and every person in the US owes abroad.
The US is having to borrow another $800 million to pay its day to day bills and much of that will come from abroad - eeven China and South Korea .
Not forgetting the slide of the dollar so the risk in lending this money is considerable.
So before anyone else starts another "you owe your freedom to us" spout then maybe you should consider who you owe your standard of living to at the moment ............................
Let's just call it quits.
OK, so how about you brits and germans and french try and start repaying your war debt from WWI and WWII. To my knowledge, only several countries ever repaid their war debts to the US..
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Originally posted by doc1kelley
OK, so how about you brits and germans and french try and start repaying your war debt from WWI and WWII.
Hi doc, according to this: -
"(1) Lend lease payments from the Brits were rescheduled in 1946; in
the April 2003 UK Govt budget you will see a line item that
$160million remains outstanding and will be repaid in full with
interest by June 30, 2005."
http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/12-1956.asp
Lend lease was only granted Britain after Congress insisted that the Brits must pay in advance for the 40 "four stackers" coal-fired WW1 destroyers we sold them. We sent a US Cruiser to pick-up the whole Brit gold reserves in Cape Town South Africa; they are still in Fort Knox. Churchill (privately) described this as "sending the bailiff to confiscate the last assets of a distressed debtor". They were fighting ht ebattle of Britain and trying to save the world at the time; best that we don't "crow" about our "generosity"!
LOL thought this was funny -you sold us a bunch of useless rust buckets and stole all our gold. meanies! ;) :D
At end of Battle of Britain (10/8/40) RAF Fighter Command pilots who had flown operationally included 7 Americans against 9 Irish, 13 French, 21 Australian, 22 South African, 24 Belgian, 87 Czech, 90 Canadian (excluding RCAF squadrons), 129 New Zealanders, 141 Polish, 2 Rhodesian, 1 Jamaican and 1 Palestinian. Ambassador Kennedy strongly opposed Americans helping Britain; the US Embassy was the FIRST foreign embassy to leave London during the blitz of September 1940.
Thank god for FDR indeed; he was trying to help a fellow patrician against a Congress which wanted to take Britain for all she had, Nazi supporters like Henry Ford, admirers like Joe Kennedy and the members of the America First Committee such as Charles Lindbergh.
"Only Congress shall have the power to declare war" - it did leave the Brits with the impression that Hitler cared more for his alliance with Japan than America did for Britain or freedom or democracy.
Shoulder to shoulder.
The U.S. hasn't done quite so well with its other big Lend-Lease
client, the Soviet Union.
According to a New York Times article, the U.S. asked the Soviet Union
in 1947 to repay $1.3 billion of its Lend-Lease debt. The Soviet
Union offered $170 million. The issue was basically dormant until the
Soviets agreed in 1972 to partially settle the debt by buying $750
million in grain from the U.S.
See:
MOSCOW AGREES TO BUY U.S. GRAIN FOR $750-MILLION; CREDITS PLANNED
WarNew York Times: Jul 9, 1972. p. 1
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nytimes/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=&x=0&y=0&By=&Title=MOSCOW+AGREES+TO+BUY+U.S.+GRAIN&datetype=0&frommonth=09&fromday=01&fromyear=1851&tomonth=12&today=31&toyear=1995&restrict=articles&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON
The Russian Federation inherited the debt from the Soviet, and it was
still on the books to the tune of $600 million as of a few years ago.
See: Russia's Paris Club Debt, Table 3
http://www.ncseonline.org/nle/crsreports/economics/econ-72.cfm?&CFID=14786900&CFTOKEN=2020905
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SOB... better look at those exchange rates.... It is $0.58 now... America is doomed!
Good thing our military is getting all this practice.
lazs
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Nice try Furby but that is ONLY the Lend-Lease agreement. Not anything involved in the reconstruction and resupply.
enough said...
:D
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No, the British repayments cover lend lease and post war loans.
$145 million is due December this year, $142 million December 2005, the final repayment of $82 million is due December 2006
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I heard only 2 countries came out of WW2 in profit - the US and Switzerland.
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Yeah ... *sigh* ... oh the days of war and profit .... cut short by the proliferation of WMDs and the advent of worldwide terrorism.
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cheer up arlo... we may be able to turn a buck or two out of this yet.
lazs
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I just live here.