Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: 6GunUSMC on November 27, 2004, 02:21:03 PM
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I have sent HTC films demonstrating this problem 3 times. I have followed the instructions "Take off 90-95% throttle" I even sent a film showing an exploding drone with takeoff throttle below 75%! (DIFFICULT to get a loaded bomber off the ground like this) This is AT BEST hit or miss. I am angry that HTC has chosen to ignore this bug and all replies on the boards say the same damned thing... Take off at 90 - 95% throttle.... raise flaps, etc... I have heard several people complain about this, it wasnt a horrible problem in AH1 but in AH2 the bugs just keep getting buggier. :mad:
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I'm getting to that point myself. Tired of wasting fuel/ time/ alt waiting for my drones to form providing I haven't lost them. Alot of my bomber deaths are from intentional crashing after losing a drone. It aint worth it to me to do a high alt bombing run if I lose a drone on take off while trying to be as careful as I can to get the dang things to form up.
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try this - use 100% throttle and no flaps. When off the ground bring up gear go level to get over auto climb then hit auto climb - you never loose a bomber this way
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Never lost a drone on take off my entire AH life.
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Okay, that's a lie. I've lost some drones on take off my entire AH life. I think I lose about average 1~2 drones during a month.
If there's some bug in the system that makes drones catching up difficult, I guess it should be fixed. I'm just curious as to howcome I never lose any drone.
A little tip: Sometimes, turns help. IIRC, the drone 'homing mechanism' starts action above 200ft AGL, during the initial take off - climb out, is usually when a drone or two falls behind.
In that case, gain solid ground clearance of over 500ft AGL, and then start a very gentle turn on the side the drone is lagging - the drones usually go into a lead turn and catch up with you quickly.
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The best I can tell is that the problem is worse the heavier the load the bomber is carrying. I prefer to make long, high-altitude bomb runs. This being the case I carry a heavy load of bombs and fuel. Anyone else see the same thing?
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To keep the drones I will pull the nose up until the stall horn is buzzing and I am about to stall while at 100% throttle. I keep it in this attitude until the drones start to pull up and latch on. After they have started pulling up to me I will dive down and cut throttle a bit. leveling out when I am lower than my drones. The drones will then stay with me "Most of the time". It really annoys people when I am on an NOE mission but Its the only way to keep my drones. It usually only takes about 15-20 seconds to get them attached this way. Gamey but it works.
RHIN0
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should it require all of that effort???
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Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
should it require all of that effort???
Now that's funny! :lol It's not a great deal of effort to take off and keep the drones; just takes a bit of patience. On one flight last night I wasn't paying attention and the take-off direction wasn't the best with hills close to the end of the runway.... I lost both my drones. I tried again, this time taking off into the opposite direction - OK, I'll have to turn after take-off, no biggie..... This time the end of the runway was clear and flat, so I hit full throttle and took off. After getting airborne and gear up, I then levelled off at about 500 ft, went to outside view and pan view mode (F8) to watch as the drones caught up and formed. Usually they will form OK at 100% throttle, but backing off slightly sometimes helps them to close a bit easier. As soon as they were formed, it was back to full throttle, I started my turn and began climbing. Yes, it was well-worth the effort for what turned out to be a successful bomb-run. :)
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Can I assume ya'll are referring to B-24's? I fly Lancs almost exclusively and sometimes B-17's, and never have a problem unless it's self-induced.
Also, not to insult anyone's intelligence, but you can get almost anywhere you need to go in AH on no more than 50% gas on any hvy bomber and rarely anymore do you need any flaps at all for takeoff.
On takeoff, If you stay at or below 200 ft AGL until gaining airspeed, your drones should actually fly slightly ABOVE you, then you can safely autoclimb out and steer from your chin gun position/ext. view without kicking off autopilot.
~Wes
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In my case above it was Lancasters, but I have successfully used the same method for B24s, B17s and Ju88s. :)
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Originally posted by Flossy
Now that's funny! :lol It's not a great deal of effort to take off and keep the drones; just takes a bit of patience. On one flight last night I wasn't paying attention and the take-off direction wasn't the best with hills close to the end of the runway.... I lost both my drones. I tried again, this time taking off into the opposite direction - OK, I'll have to turn after take-off, no biggie..... This time the end of the runway was clear and flat, so I hit full throttle and took off. After getting airborne and gear up, I then levelled off at about 500 ft, went to outside view and pan view mode (F8) to watch as the drones caught up and formed. Usually they will form OK at 100% throttle, but backing off slightly sometimes helps them to close a bit easier. As soon as they were formed, it was back to full throttle, I started my turn and began climbing. Yes, it was well-worth the effort for what turned out to be a successful bomb-run. :)
Flossy... ya missed my point entirely... WHY cant they just fix the %$*&#oscar*%^!! BUG??? I have no problem with a little effort... but this is CLEARLY a problem that should be fixed. I write smaller applications for my company and our clients... If I ever gave them anything so problematic I would be fired if I didnt fix it quickly.
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Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
should it require all of that effort???
No it should not.
RHIN0
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Sorry.... I don't think it is a bug! You could just as well say, "Why should dog-fighting be so much effort?" It needs to be a bit of a challenge otherwise it would be too boring! :rolleyes:
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flossy thats so off base! incorrect comparison to say the least! We are talking about a problem in the software causing needless lost aircraft on takeoff. i dont complain about what happens in combat (unless it is related to other bugs) but this is ridiculous...
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6Gun, the only time I have this problem is when I use auto-takeoff or forget to get the flaps off quickly enough. I use manual take-off, 100% power until airborne and 140mph or so, back off to 95% power, level and let the drones saddle up, then autoclimb at 100% power. Works every time for me in all the formation capable bombers.
Having flaps down does seem to cause me to lose the left drone if I leave the flaps on too long.
Cheers,
asw
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Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
flossy thats so off base! incorrect comparison to say the least! We are talking about a problem in the software causing needless lost aircraft on takeoff. i dont complain about what happens in combat (unless it is related to other bugs) but this is ridiculous...
That's just it. I don't think it is a problem in the software.... :)
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Not saying there is a bug, I don’t usually fly with 100% fuel, but here’s a tip.
Occasionally, when I'm launching out of a particularly tough field or want to change course immediately after launch, I'll leave the gear down, climb to 200ft agl and begin a sharp turn. The drones will follow like baby ducks chasing their mother. Once you’re on course, set auto climb, reduce throttle 15 or 20% and raise the gear, this will initiate normal formation keeping.
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Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
flossy thats so off base! incorrect comparison to say the least! We are talking about a problem in the software causing needless lost aircraft on takeoff. i dont complain about what happens in combat (unless it is related to other bugs) but this is ridiculous...
My view here is, your trying to fly 3 buffs, sure it should be a bit difficult! Try this, get a couple of buddies, all 3 of ya take of in single buffs, and get formed up as quick as possible. It is very possible to fly as close as drones. Now, if ya can't do it in the first mile or so, you all should go back to flight school :) Sure its tuff, but hey thats how it is! Good Luck!
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i dont understand why you people give HTC a free pass on a software bug. If HTC wants to disable formations, sobeit. If not fix the SOB! I dont know why people want to talk about effort and reality. when i mentioned effort i was talking about unnecessary effort CAUSED by this software BUG. It IS a bug. It is not like I am sitting here griping because I am attempting a series of 7G turns and losing drones, or divebombing and losing drones. NO, this doesnt happen every time, but it happens often enough to be extremely irritating. This is a PROBLEM that IS software based, this can be fixed easily and it should be.
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i suppose this wont be fixed
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ya can't fix what isn't broke. I think its intentionally made that way so you have a bit of a challange when launching buffs.
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personally i dont get the problem, unless you are going afk right after takeoff....
i havent lost a drone on takeoff (even a 234) for about 6 months or more. it is not easy to get them up to you, but i have never failed at it like i said.
i do use "auto-takeoff" until the lead plane is at least 500 AGL, or in danger of hitting a tree.
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Originally posted by MaddogJoe
ya can't fix what isn't broke. I think its intentionally made that way so you have a bit of a challange when launching buffs.
when one buff bounces up and down like a tard on a pogo stick there IS a problem
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Hey 6Gun, did you ever get a responce from HTC?
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When folks say you can get anywhere on the map with 50% fuel in a bomber I agree with one exception.....How high do you go?
I know those of you have your opinions on what constitutes a bug and what doesnt but I think there is something up cause in my mind my drones shouldnt have to be babied to form up. Hell they're rigth behind me on take off and often times pass me up. I could understand it if there was a large delay on their roll out.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Hey 6Gun, did you ever get a responce from HTC?
Hi Ded...
HELL NO.. no response from them after sending in 3 films several weeks apart. I followed hitechs own instructions to the letter, then sent in films demonstrating the problem. We at least got responses when our squad was in Warbirds.
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Originally posted by Wolf14
When folks say you can get anywhere on the map with 50% fuel in a bomber I agree with one exception.....How high do you go?
I know those of you have your opinions on what constitutes a bug and what doesnt but I think there is something up cause in my mind my drones shouldnt have to be babied to form up. Hell they're rigth behind me on take off and often times pass me up. I could understand it if there was a large delay on their roll out.
I know Wolf... You have people respond by drumbeating for HTC saying that 100% of the problem is the users. Others have offered constructive help and it IS appreciated But - it wouldnt be necessary to stand on one foot, hold your breath, hop up and down while going into external view looking in a mirror with both your fingers and toes crossed to keep your drones IF HTC would fix this bug. For those who say turn off auto-takeoff... WHY HAVE IT AT ALL IF YOU CANNOT USE IT WHEN YOU WANT TO????
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6gun.
1. Drop the attitude if you wish to remain on this bbs.
2. Ive tested that system a lot. Yes It can be dificult to get the drones formed up in certain situations. But It realy has much more to do with flight envlopes than a bug. Other also do not seem to have your problem.
3. The form up method is slated to be complete rewritten when I redo the drone code for TOD. Basicly they will just go around the patern untill you form up with them.
HiTech
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Hitech,
For the B24s, the performance of drone #2 is not the same as drone #3. Drone #2 out accelerates both lead ship and #3 on ground roll as if over-powered or underweight. Is this by design? With the high stall speed and early auto-flap retraction, it makes it extremely difficult to capture the #2 drone.
As a side note, you get a week stall horn in a fully loaded B24 (100% fuel, 8x1000lb bomb load) in auto-climb near sea level. Speed is about 139 indicated. You need about 141 indicated to silence the horn. Makes me feel that the auto-climb is set to best angle instead of best rate.
MachNix
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Hitech,
#1 - if you are paying for something and have a problem and complain, send emails with films demonstrating the problem and have no response you would have a negative attitude too. As for my participation on this BBS and your game, thats up to you, but given the fact that I have sent those emails to support@hitechcreations.com and to you directly (CC'd them) I would think that as a business owner/manager that a lack of response would have you wanting answers from those who are supposed to serve your customers than taking time to slant threats at the customers who have LEGITIMATE complaints. The 'attitude' stemmed from being ignored when I went through proper channels and procedure for complaining 3 times without a single response - I would expect under normal business operating rules a business owner would be looking at the failure inside his own organization and ways to remedy those failures than to threaten his sources of income.
#2 - Thanks for letting others know that there is indeed an occasional problem with this due to the flight envelope or flight model.
#3 - This sounds interesting, a simple answer like this would have solved the entire problem.
Hitech I enjoy this game. I appreciate your efforts and the efforts of others to improve the game and the community as a whole. I try to help by hosting sound packs and the like on our squads website. I hope you will at least understand my reason for having an 'attitude', when I pay money to someone on a regular basis I at least want a response when I have a problem. (Not a frequent occasion) Hell, I dont even have to like the response! But say SOMETHING!
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MachNix I think the autoclimb your refering to is actualy auto speed, alt-x. I found on the 24's I get alot more porpoising than 17's cause its trying to stabilize speed at 160mph so until its gets a constant 160mph its going to be adjusting the angle of attack. Up and down....up and down.
I fly level till about 200mph then use shift-x and then the buttons K and I to set my climb rate. When I do that I dont get all the stall horns and ups and downs like what happens while autospeed is trying to establish its speed. If alt-x isnt what your using then just look past this here response.
:)
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One thing I should mention is I never use auto-takeoff. I take off manually and 'fly' the lead plane until it is safely above any trees or other obstacles (about 500-1000 feet), then hit the auto-level and reduce throttle to let the drones catch up. I don't engage auto-climb or make any turns until they are formed. Oh, and I never use flaps except on Lancasters sometimes. :)
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:rofl
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Wolf14, Yes I was referring to alt-x but it is called "AUTO PILOT CLIMB" in the Aces High Help even though I too think of it as "auto-speed". After the porpoising, the alt-x speed settles to 139 mph indicated for a fully loaded B24 – 140 for lightly loaded. (Use the E6B on the clipboard to get a digital reading of the speeds.) And at 139 mph in a fully loaded B24 there is a slight stall horn. But this is a little off the topic. I only presented the info here hoping it would help HTC identify the problem.
Back on the topic, Flossy's method works. If you try and climb out immediately after takeoff, you will lose the #2 drone. Now why the #2 doesn't perform like the #3 is a mystery. Is it a bug or by design?
MachNix
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Originally posted by hitech
6gun.
1. Drop the attitude if you wish to remain on this bbs.
HiTech
After reading this thread, I don't see any "attitude" different than any other thread where there is a legitimate difference of opinions.
If someone is pissed off at how the game performs, they should be encouraged to speak their mind, not discouraged.
We the Aces High customers, pay the bills for HiTech and his crew. As long as we don't get verbally and personally obusive on the boards, we should be allowed to speak freely.
And oftentimes, the only way to get through to the mangement is to start jumping up and down, screaming one's head off.
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Originally posted by peterg2
And oftentimes, the only way to get through to the mangement is to start jumping up and down, screaming one's head off.
Is it that difficult to politely make request while maintaining your resolve? This is never the way to solve problems, often the emotion and anger leads to more conflict and very rarely a solution.
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Originally posted by acetnt367th
Is it that difficult to politely make request while maintaining your resolve? This is never the way to solve problems, often the emotion and anger leads to more conflict and very rarely a solution.
In general, most of the guys who post on the BB are quite polite in expressing their opinions. But, sometimes people get pretty frustrated with the game, especially when game features change, usually at no request of their own. And the squeaky wheel gets attention thing starts happening.
During the evolution of Aces, the gameplay has changed in significant ways. If one becomes a paying member after playing a certain version, make buddies online, and invests a considerable amount of time learning that particular version... some people get understandably upset when playability and features change. The trouble is, sometimes there is so much noise on the BB's that the management doesn't have the time to notice some issues and threads. So people can get frustrated and have a meltdown sometimes.
When I reach that point, it's time to shut the computer off. But, that's just me.
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I found out a real easy way of getting the drones to merge up with ya 300 yards after the runway. When your plane takes off and lifts its wheels. Just keep full throttle and put down 1 more notch of flaps then when the default is. All drones will line up with ya very quickly especially the 2nd drone. He won't lose out or drop off. So far its worked for me 100%.
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I use auto takeoff but i go level just as soon as it is safe to do so, then level plane and pull throttle way back until that last drone starts to settle it.
With this high fuel burn, on some maps there are some deep strat targets that require more than 75% (so 100%) fuel to get to and RTB. I have even come close to landing dead stick. Sad but true and depends on how the map maker laid out the strats.