Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs2 on November 29, 2004, 02:46:00 PM
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Ok... so have three carriers out in the boonies at least a couple of sectors or so away from land or bases and make em indestructable. They don't travel far and they can't be controlled.
Those who enjoy a good fight could play there and those who enjoy ruining a good fight.... well... tough, go somewhere else.
Too far away for them to effect the gameplay of those who think they are really in WWII and too far away for the uberplane guys to enjoy their "choose the uber plane" advantage.
Granted... there would be limited selection of planes but that would be a good thing in this case since I'm sure most furballers have seen enough uberplanes to last em a thousand sorties or so.
Lots of fun for some without affecting the "immersion" of the reincarnated WWII veterans out there.
lazs
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<---------------------- DA. 3 doors down on the left.
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1 vs 1 is not a furball last time i checked.
not a bad idea, im sure somebody will not like it though.
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Does sound kind of like a DA thing, but 3 floating islands semi close to each other with a somewhat limited planeset is just like the concept of a "furball island". The difference between this and the DA would be that this idea would promote many players looking for the giant fight aspect, whereas the DA is 1 vs. 1 most of the time.
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Just what this game needs. More hidden condescending I'm better than you fly my way or don't fly at all threads. When will they stop :confused:
Just start your own H2H arena. You and the three that agree with your repetitive posts can play carrier quake furball all day long. No worries about the majority that actually enjoy the MA for what it is. It's a simple answer.
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Fightertown... AW....1995.
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I've always thought that a map based primarily on carrier play would be a lot of fun.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Fightertown... AW....1995.
That was 1995? I'm pretty sure that the Big Pac map with the fighter town island didn't come along until awhile later. Certainly it wasn't around when I started back in 1996.
And stop making me feel old, you geezer.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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lol.... everything before '97 is a blur. :)
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Anyone who calls this idea the same as the DA, hasnt spent enough time in the DA.
DA is a controled fight enviorment... For the most part. When people go in there for a fight, they set up merge alts, rules, fuel, planes, ect...
I like this idea of lazs...
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You'd need to turn the puffy ack off on these CVs, both player and FE controlled. Also the central area would need to be off limits to normal CVs.
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Originally posted by SunKing
Just what this game needs. More hidden condescending I'm better than you fly my way or don't fly at all threads. When will they stop :confused:
Just start your own H2H arena. You and the three that agree with your repetitive posts can play carrier quake furball all day long. No worries about the majority that actually enjoy the MA for what it is. It's a simple answer.
Why would you care if this was implemented ?
It's easy to do and doesn't adversely effect anyone else in the arena.
Think you'd be suprised how many players would jump in there for a casual furball when they felt like it.
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Sounds great untill the whines come from the Furball camp about how some High Alt Buff Dweeb sinks a carrier just to "piss in the pot."
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Originally posted by Scrap
Sounds great untill the whines come from the Furball camp about how some High Alt Buff Dweeb sinks a carrier just to "piss in the pot."
unsinkable carriers
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Would be nice.:aok
Then the fun Nazis would have nothing to do.:rofl
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Not that bad an idea, as most who played the AH2 beta had a blast with the carrier battles we had going.
That is until the inevitable CV sinker showed up.
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Redd the same thing could be done on certain maps like Ndisles and Ozkansas with the furball islands. Just make the hangers indestructible but make it so the strats can still be porked. Also make the fields uncapturable. (Fields would also have to not count towards reset)
I absolutely loved Fighter Town in the middle of the Big Pac map.
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Sounds like a blast. ;)
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If there is a "tank town", there should be a fighter town.
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Count me in! Say the word and I'll be there. Just to have fun in
the FM2.
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Where would i get me Kurt Tank beauty from then?
can't fly FW why bother B&Z'ing you low furballers?
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It would work out the same as old fighter town / ATOLL did, would be crowded at first then most would be weeded out until only a few would be flying there most times.
Fighter Town ( the seperate Arena ) came into play in AW3.... The Atoll was always there best I can remember as for the PTO map.
The ETO was the Pond, then you had Valley of the Dweebs over there on the Az/BZ side what was they Az83 and Bz84? 85?
anyhow in the Big PAC or BigWeek map/arena had the central fighter town/Island it had sail boats in the middle lake
always good fights in the Fighter Town Arena, Badz, Dead+, BigR, BigT, -HR-, Icer, Filth, Stick, WrW, Drano, Snowman, Kitty, Kanth, to name a few
either way A Fighter Town Arena or a central area like in the Oz map with undestructable fields would be fun for all!
It also does not take away or mess up others type of participation, Fun for ALL!
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What reason would the 20k guys have to come down?
We whine cause the cherry-pickers do thier thing in our space--they whine cause we whine---thinking about it---it would doom AH cause the player base that thrives on A2A stats needs furballers to survive.
Other than that--carefull what yu wish for lazs:)
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If it'd get Hajo out of the jug I'd be worth the price of admission. ;)
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
always good fights in the Fighter Town Arena, Badz, Dead+, BigR, BigT, -HR-, Icer, Filth, Stick, WrW, Drano, Snowman, Kitty, Kanth, to name a few
Yup, the separate FR Fightertown arena was the best. Can't remember why they eliminated it in favor of the atoll in BigPork, but it may have been to supplant it with the Axis v. Allies arena, which never really worked out.
Not 1995, though, because I didn't get AW4Win until 10/96. Best guess is that the separate arena was mid-1997 until mid-1998.
Lazs' idea would work out just fine; certainly wouldn't hurt anyone to try it. In the meantime, of course, you can always meander over to the CT.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Yup, the separate FR Fightertown arena was the best. Can't remember why they eliminated it in favor of the atoll in BigPork, but it may have been to supplant it with the Axis v. Allies arena, which never really worked out.
Not 1995, though, because I didn't get AW4Win until 10/96. Best guess is that the separate arena was mid-1997 until mid-1998.
Lazs' idea would work out just fine; certainly wouldn't hurt anyone to try it. In the meantime, of course, you can always meander over to the CT.
- oldman
They didnt eliminate it, it was there till the end IIRC. But if it did end it wasnt replaced by the atoll in Big Pac, that was always there. Just that toward the end they made the fields capturable and destroyed the whole point of it. Everyone whined that when they would take the surrounding fields, there would still be one an enemy could up from and they couldnt pork. The RR Big Pac arena had an identical map, but the atoll remained unporkable there. It was a great place to fly early in the morning, in either arena. Always a few guys there while the rest of the arena was quiet or at least semi-quiet, flying zeros and Ki-43s and Hurricanes and Hellcats and .38s..........and of course the ever popular Ki-84. We'd fight each other in endless circles until the arena started to heat up and whoever had fields closest to us would start BnZing us.
Yer right though, the seperate FT arena didnt come along until fairly late (IIRC they tried it twice with completely different maps). It was a blast. I still have films of dueling 109's with Drano (and dying most of the time), and pitting a Yak against Snowman's 38 (and dying some more lol). And Kitty would make you laugh so hard tears would be flowing, and then she'd shoot your plane full of holes.
The Axis vs Allies arena was there for a long time. It had a very hardcore fanbase. Numbers were often like AH's CT is now, except on the squad nights, then it would fill up. Biggest problem with it was that very few people would switch sides when the numbers were low, as most of them were in squads and the AW system wouldnt let you be in a different country than your squaddies.
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Originally posted by Redd
Why would you care if this was implemented ?
It's easy to do and doesn't adversely effect anyone else in the arena.
Think you'd be suprised how many players would jump in there for a casual furball when they felt like it.
What is it with these posts? Why not the DA for this? The DA has fields plenty close, and furballers could fight forever without anyone bombing anything.
If you all want this so bad there is a simple answer to just jump into the DA.....
But the underlying reason that the "furballers" don't make the huge un-fettered fight they want in the DA. Simple... NO SCORES! No matter how many say, "What's rank" or, "What's a score", they still like to see the score. They still want all those other players to see "SoAndSo Landed 500 Victories in an Un-Uber Early War Plane"
Your Furball awaits.. go to it. I bet if HTC put a new score page up with DA ranks and scores, the DA would fill up almost instantly.
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the DA could be used yes, but would be better if it had a better layout.......you prob got a point about the score board issue too........some prob don't care but most prob do LOL!
I like the DA map up now where the bottom dueling filds let ya fight sort of like in a valley.......
don't see no reason why the DA could not host both DA and a Fighter Town type area, heck you get a GV area there ( I think ) where you are in like a circle sort of like tank town on trinity.......
everyone seems to want to play where everyone else is, ( ie... MA ) the oz map offers sort of a place like some wish for here, but you are able to capture any part of it, it is close but no cigar yet.....
my posting was only to see if I could offer up an opinion that prob has been said 10,000 times already which is trying to comprimise and satisfy both type players....
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Originally posted by Midnight
What is it with these posts? Why not the DA for this? The DA has fields plenty close, and furballers could fight forever without anyone bombing anything.
If you all want this so bad there is a simple answer to just jump into the DA.....
But the underlying reason that the "furballers" don't make the huge un-fettered fight they want in the DA. Simple... NO SCORES! No matter how many say, "What's rank" or, "What's a score", they still like to see the score. They still want all those other players to see "SoAndSo Landed 500 Victories in an Un-Uber Early War Plane"
Your Furball awaits.. go to it. I bet if HTC put a new score page up with DA ranks and scores, the DA would fill up almost instantly.
If the DA had a 3-country setup in any of the areas for fighters like they do for the GVs it wouldnt be a bad idea. Frankly, the map in the DA sux, and its useless for more than what it is. A dueling arena. Now if they'd put a row of "dueling" bases along the top, and then make the rest one solid map divided into 3 "country" areas with say 3 or 4 bases for each side, with only fighters enabled..........I'd fly there exclusively. Since they probably arent going to revamp the DA just for us, folks are just trying to suggest something that would allow everyone to stay in the same arena and have the comfort of the crowds, while still getting that "i can always go here and find a minor furball without worries of bombers and GVs" thing we all crave every so often.
Why are YOU getting so bent out of shape over it? It's just a suggestion. Obviously one people like, even if not everyone. It probably wont ever happen, so why get your britches all wadded up in yer crack over it? Wound a little tight are ya? You seem to think the AH world revolves around scores. None of the complaints about the DA have had anything to do with them, and no one in this thread even bothered to mention scores until you did. Someone posted a wish. Others piped in about how they could go for the idea, and some others of us compared it to setups they had in AW that served the same purpose. Everything (except one) was positive and constructive, and whether it happens or not its nice to wish sometimes. Why would you even care if they did do it? Impact on the MA as it is would be minimal at best. Maybe its just your nature to go through life attacking people who are in a better mood than you. Sad. Oh well, enjoy!
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Originally posted by Midnight
What is it with these posts? Why not the DA for this? The DA has fields plenty close, and furballers could fight forever without anyone bombing anything.
If you all want this so bad there is a simple answer to just jump into the DA.....
But the underlying reason that the "furballers" don't make the huge un-fettered fight they want in the DA. Simple... NO SCORES! No matter how many say, "What's rank" or, "What's a score", they still like to see the score. They still want all those other players to see "SoAndSo Landed 500 Victories in an Un-Uber Early War Plane"
Your Furball awaits.. go to it. I bet if HTC put a new score page up with DA ranks and scores, the DA would fill up almost instantly.
and the negative impact on you of this idea is ........... ?
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It would be like tank town.. you wouldn't have to use it, but it may be a place to find a fight at 2 in the morning =)
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Please.. give us an..un porkable..furball island..or cv group please..
It would be great during the slow times in the MA
I thought thats why we didnt have it now....was we cant have soem bases..un-cacthable ---or un porkable..becuase how the rest are set up?
I dont like flying more then 5 miles for a fight...
Please make me waste less time grabbing virtual air liek a rook in a GhEy BAr
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can we have a cherry pick island??
I dont like flying more then 5 miles for a fight
airstarts will suit u gamey instinct.
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I used to love the old mapwhine posts! I remember the map I designed for Lazs, with three overlapping fields, a fuel pipeline so as to prevent 25% fuel porkage, a bomber base (off map by 1000 miles) a token gesture CV pond, and a toolshed facility in a remote corner. One wonders how far this game must depart from reality in order for some people to have "fun". Unsinkable CVs - LOL! :lol
As Jackal was quick to point out, if folks don't want their "fun" to be interrupted by the destruction of their fighter hangars, don't want to lose their radar (HQ porkage), don't want to have their fuel porked, don't want buffs of any kind for any reason - then the DA is there and is tailor made for these "fite guys" to have all the "fun" they want. (<- words in quotes require subjective interpretation) I used to shake my head in amazement that it wasn't more popular, until Midnight explained: Originally posted by Midnight
But the underlying reason that the "furballers" don't make the huge un-fettered fight they want in the DA. Simple... NO SCORES! No matter how many say, "What's rank" or, "What's a score", they still like to see the score. They still want all those other players to see "SoAndSo Landed 500 Victories in an Un-Uber Early War Plane"
Your Furball awaits.. go to it. I bet if HTC put a new score page up with DA ranks and scores, the DA would fill up almost instantly.
One of the best posts I've read in months! :aok Sig. material, but for the current rule governing sig length.
Yes, they want that scoreboard for the reasons Midnight says. But even then, they'd want the scoreboard to be "unquotable" so that folks like me could not use scores to make a point in a post. One thing I've come to realise on this board is that quoting the FACTS (using the scoreboard or a film) to counter furballer fiction/makebelieve is like Doctor Van Helsing holding out a crucifix in front of Count Dracula.
So yes, Midnight is right - a scoreboard is what's needed in the DA, but in order to guarantee complete satisfaction, make it so it cannot be quoted, or can only be seen by certain people. DA is a controled fight enviorment... For the most part. When people go in there for a fight, they set up merge alts, rules, fuel, planes, ect...
Maybe, but it needn't be. Put up a scoreboard in there, and see how quickly that changes.
Interestingly, I once suggested the converse - removing the scoreboard from the MA, and make it visible only when the current tour ends. I didn't think it would be popular though. ;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
I used to love the old mapwhine posts! I remember the map I designed for Lazs, with three overlapping fields, a fuel pipeline so as to prevent 25% fuel porkage, a bomber base (off map by 1000 miles) a token gesture CV pond, and a toolshed facility in a remote corner. One wonders how far this game must depart from reality in order for some people to have "fun". Unsinkable CVs - LOL! :lol
As Jackal was quick to point out, if folks don't want their "fun" to be interrupted by the destruction of their fighter hangars, don't want to lose their radar (HQ porkage), don't want to have their fuel porked, don't want buffs of any kind for any reason - then the DA is there and is tailor made for these "fite guys" to have all the "fun" they want. (<- words in quotes require subjective interpretation) I used to shake my head in amazement that it wasn't more popular, until Midnight explained: One of the best posts I've read in months! :aok Sig. material, but for the current rule governing sig length.
Yes, they want that scoreboard for the reasons Midnight says. But even then, they'd want the scoreboard to be "unquotable" so that folks like me could not use scores to make a point in a post. One thing I've come to realise on this board is that quoting the FACTS (using the scoreboard or a film) to counter furballer fiction/makebelieve is like Doctor Van Helsing holding out a crucifix in front of Count Dracula.
So yes, Midnight is right - a scoreboard is what's needed in the DA, but in order to guarantee complete satisfaction, make it so it cannot be quoted, or can only be seen by certain people. Maybe, but it needn't be. Put up a scoreboard in there, and see how quickly that changes.
Interestingly, I once suggested the converse - removing the scoreboard from the MA, and make it visible only when the current tour ends. I didn't think it would be popular though. ;)
Beet,
Send me over some of whatever you're smoking will ya ;)
What on earth does any of this have to do with score.
I would like to be in an arena with lots of people , where lots of things are going on, sometimes I like to furball, sometimes I don't. I don't do buff's and Gv's - but I don't care if other people do.
A little corner poked away where I could go when I feel like it, knowing there's a nice little furball going on, that can't be broken up by the base-grabbers would be a good thing. If the plane set is early/midwar - even better .
It's not the DA - the DA is different.
Why do all you guys seem to have a problem with that ? How is it interrupting your gameplay ?
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Why do all you guys seem to have a problem with that ? How is it interrupting your gameplay ?
thats easy, with all the furballers gone, who they gonna swoop down off their perches and BnZ?
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Hey Redd! What's OZ doing this cricket season? -would love to see 'em play...
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well... I can see that the bore and zoom guys are still in defensive mode... Score? LOL.... furball guys would get their score destroyed. Who cares? I have been taking off from vulched fields cause being vulched is still more action than 90% of the places to take off from these days. If I get vulched 10 times but get up and get a shot at 1 or 2 of em it is still more fun than avoiding fights all night.
midnight is a pony boy.. take a fast late war plane and fly it in a very timid manner and seem upset when the low slow moving targets don't want to play your timid game... Whats the matter? afraid that all you would have to play against would be other timid guys in late war planes?
I guess nothing has changed... the guys who would chose a late war plane still need the furballers more than the furballers need them.
If you need a late war plane and far apart fields then you probly get a little frieghtened when you hear that people don't want to be your targets anymore or that you may have to compete on an even basis... that is to be expected... at least be man enough to admit it like jb73.
I think the fear is that if the furballers went there then the timid boys wouyld have no on to play with but themselves and they know how boring that would be.
lazs
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
If the DA had a 3-country setup in any of the areas for fighters like they do for the GVs it wouldnt be a bad idea.
There used to be an atol style land area (similar to AWIII Big Pac Furball Island) in the DA. There was 1 Rook, 1 Knight and 1 Bishop field on it. It was perfect for the endless 3-country furball.
Originally posted by Redd
What on earth does any of this have to do with score.
There is no *Proof* that this has anything to do with score. There is only the simple FACT that the DA has been in existance for years and that the entire time, it could have been used for ANYONE to go there and fight in an endless, un-porkable, non-interuptable furball. So I am implying that the reason the furballers don't go there is because they want to see a score. They want to be able to have some metric to say how good they are in the furball and that there are not enough of them who mearly fight in the furball for the "fun of it"
I don't claim to be a furballer, however I am far from being a strat player or field capture player either. In fact, I have not put external ordnance on my P-51 in over a year. I also avoid flying with the "horde" because I dislike having to fight TnB style to get kills and I don't like competing for kills with cannon-armed aircraft.
What I do like to do is take off at a clear field, climb to around 15K and get near an enemy field that is launching multiple aircraft trying to go an attack a friendly field. Then I like to use E tactics to fight them as long as my ammo, fuel or advantage remains. Once I run out of any of the three, I get the heck out of there.
I guess overall, I don't care where the furballers have their fight, but I think the argument comes when the special area requests keep pouring in over and over again when the special area is already availble.
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This is a community... people like to play in the large arenas.. score? DA? to point to the deserted da and score and say that they are "proof" that there are no furballers or that the furballers only care about score is like saying that...
Tjhe CT is deserted because the bore and zoom guys don't care about realism or immersion.... they don't like the CT because they have to compete on an even basis. When the ct has uneven planesets the people flock to the side with the best planes. Human nature. In those cases, just like in the MA... those people depend on the few who will fly the lesser planes so that they can be the thrower instead of the dodger in the AH version of dodgeball.
The bore and zoom guys like midnight depend on the furballers. They need us because if we left they would have to fight each other and they know how boring that would be. they depend on being higher than everyone else and untouchable.
The furballers on the other hand put up with it because it is the only game inm town. We are not doing what the bore and zoom buys think we are doing... we are only looking for an area where a good fight exists... when the bore and zoom guys or the fh or carrier desrtoyers show up.... it is pretty much the end... yu finish your sortie and wait for your buddies while searching the map for another place that might be fun...
sometimes you get some action going... if you do... the bore and zoom guys and toolshed killers won't be long in coming. When they show up the fun is about to end.... look for another place to fly..... rinse repeat.
Some small place on the map that is allways open for furball gtamelay seems a minor concession.
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
Hey Redd! What's OZ doing this cricket season? -would love to see 'em play...
Well we've just given the kiwi's a bit of a spanking (finished today), and we're limbering up for pakistan ( think they arrive this week). One-dayers start soon.
Well fly down here beet - it's only 24 hours or so on a plane. Come to the Boxing Day Test at the MCG. :)
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Hey DipStick....I fly the 190A8....an the La5 too LOL
(but not much) :D
I do like to twist and turn in the FM2.....it's a H00T!
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Midnight,
I’m not sure that I entirely agree with your reasoning for furballers preferring the MA to the DA either. Personally, I have several reasons to fly in the MA and they aren’t at all related to “score”.
The biggest reason to fly in the MA, for me, is community. Even if all of the T&Bs moved to the DA for the porkless furball, it would only be half of the community. – You and I would never have had that cool encounter we had last night and I sure would miss that sort of exchange.
The other reason I prefer the MA is because I like using the changing environment, dynamic situations, and unpredictability that the arena promotes, to try to gain advantages. For example – if the other guy thinks I may try to dive away to ack – he might over-commit on a pass and give me a chance to reverse on him. Those psychological elements are simply not present in the DA.
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Interestingly, I once suggested the converse - removing the scoreboard from the MA, and make it visible only when the current tour ends. I didn't think it would be popular though.
Well, I can almost guarantee you that this will NEVER happen. But I would love to see this happen. Even if it were just for a tour or two. And Im talking get rid of stats period... No score, no rank no BS.... Just fly for the fun of it...
I can only imagine what fun it would be to have more people who dont give a rats bellybutton about dying because their K/D will suffer. It wouldn't matter then because there would be no K/D, no k/p/r, no hit %, none of the crap that keeps people careful and almost scared to die. Yep, it would be a hell of alot more fun for all I think that way.
Well lets not hijack this thread any longer beetle.
Maybe... god... Why am I saying this?!... Maybe you could come back to AH and then start a thread proposing this idea. I'd be for it.
Oh btw, I still hate you.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Some small place on the map that is allways open for furball gtamelay seems a minor concession.
An utterly reasonable request if you ask me. I might not make use of it all the time but I'd definitely use it occasionally if we could have something like this.
Cheers,
asw
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Originally posted by lazs2
This is a community... people like to play in the large arenas.. score? DA? to point to the deserted da and score and say that they are "proof" that there are no furballers or that the furballers only care about score is like saying that...
I specifically stated there is NO proof of that in my last post.
You condtradict yourself in what you say too, Lazs. You're asking for a small area for 'fighter town' or whatever you want to call it so that your furball can go on un-molested. Then you say you want to be in the community of a large arena. Why? If you are only interested in the furball types and want to be physically (virtually) seperated from the "bore and zooms" and "Toolshed killers" then you clearly don't want to be part of the community as a whole.. you just want your piece of it.
If you (furball types) all went to the DA and started furballing, then it wouldn't be deserted, and it would have the part of the community that you were interested in dealing with.
Originally posted by lazs2
The bore and zoom guys like midnight depend on the furballers. They need us because if we left they would have to fight each other and they know how boring that would be. they depend on being higher than everyone else and untouchable.
Read my last post again. I don't need furballers for me to get my kills. I mostly find the "toolshed killers" and vultch hordes when I'm looking for a fight. I make every effort to avoid fighting near CVs, because I hate 5" flak.
Originally posted by lazs2
sometimes you get some action going... if you do... the bore and zoom guys and toolshed killers won't be long in coming. When they show up the fun is about to end.... look for another place to fly..... rinse repeat.
Some small place on the map that is allways open for furball gtamelay seems a minor concession.
Here again, you say it and contradict your "community" statement. I'll sum it up for you in a letter to HTC.
Dear Hitech,
Please make an area for me to have a furball where the bore and zoom and toolshed killers cannot disturb me. I want to be able to have a constant furball where I don't have to worry about someone killing the FHs or bore and zooming me to death. I know there is the DA which is already setup for this, however I want to play in the MA "community" because of the large numbers. But I don't want to have to deal with the attitudes and play styles of the other part of the community. I guess I want to be seperated from the comminuty, yet I don't want to have to have a different community, even though the other part of the existing comminuty is always ruining my furballs.
So, in short, please give me an area where the furball can rage on with the guys who like to furball, but make it so the other guys that like to kill toolsheds don't come over to ruin the fight.
Oh, the DA would work, but then I would be seperated from the rest of the comminuty.
Regards
lazs
There you go lazs. Print it, put a stamp on it and mail it to HTC.
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Originally posted by lazs2
The bore and zoom guys like midnight depend on the furballers. They need us because if we left they would have to fight each other and they know how boring that would be. they depend on being higher than everyone else and untouchable.
Do ya think?
Flying Timid 101 (http://members.cox.net/ah_dipstick/film39.ahf)
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Originally posted by DipStick
Do ya think?
hehe Tango actually gets close to 600mph on a couple of passes in that film. That's funny stuff.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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This doesn't seem that tough to me. How about...
on a map like Trinity, just place an island somewhere out of the way with three bases and put the towns for each base in the rear of each country where it would be one of the last things captured.
At the airfields, switch the flak guns to AI ack or manned ack, then switch the troops to fuel or ammo bunkers so A20s etc can still up but disable bombers and late war planes.
Anybody like it?
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Hehe hehehehe heheheheheheheeheehee
Pardon me a sec.
::wipes tears from eyes::
Whew. Midnight, you are a riot. You miss the point entirely. Again.
If we all hated the MA so much, we just wouldnt fly there, period. I didnt, for almost a year because it's so easy to get burnt out on the same thing happening every day with the same people doing the same dweebish stuff. The true gems in there rarely have a chance to shine because they get buried in the dirt.
Problems with the DA, and even the CT have nothing to do with scores and everything to do with design. The CT's limited planeset doesnt appeal to everyone, and the DA's design ........... well it just sux. The field layouts are well suited to dueling, which is why it is named the DUELING ARENA, not something else. If the arena were redesigned to have one area for dueling, and the little "tank town" down in the corner for the GV guys, and the rest set up in a decent sized map with a few fields for each side evenly spread out, you would see usage of the DA go up markedly.
What these guys have asked for is not so difficult as redesigning an entire arena, just a small area out of the way where they can indulge in the type of fighting they want, and yet still be part of the community in the MA. When they get their fill of furballing in the corner, they can hop back over to another base and rejoin the ongoing war without having to change arenas. The nice thing is you get to "switch gears" and change up your style of fighting every so often and help avoid the burnout that sends many of the good flyers into several months of hibernation. How many "Ive had enough and I'm leaving" threads have you seen on the BBS in the last few months?
What I'm really curious about is why you have to assume that what is already in place is good enough? Every negative response to these types of threads is "GO TO THE DA". Obviously the DA is lacking in something or it would be more utilised as an alternative. Fact is, it was never intended to be an alternative to the MA or the CT, it was designed for a purpose and it fills that purpose just as the SEA fills its purpose.
No one has made any suggestions that would negatively impact YOUR style of gameplay, or wants to take anything away from you. And why shouldnt they have opinions on things that would make the game more enjoyable to them? Everyone has the right to an opinion, you included. But that doesnt mean you have to come into this thread and dump on these guys just because you dont agree with what they want.
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Dipstick - I tried to play your film, but I get an error message. I'm using the AH2 film viewer. Here is the error message:
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/aherror.jpg)
BTW Dip, you do know that .AHF files will compress by about 50% into .ZIP files. Just mentioning - as quite a few people are still lumbered with modem dial-up.
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Lazs..ur rigth on target..
I would up a vulched field all day...lot more fun the the theses rainbow warrior purse swingers..
The thing as to why we should have a Furball...when its slow..and theses guys like here are milkrunning bases..or porking strats,,we can be at the short distance furball fields..
when soem rook raid msiion starts up ..we can see it..and go up off soem airfiled to defend the hordes coming in..
Being in teh DA you will miss all of this..
I like attaking all kinds,...but again..I dotn liek wasting time grabbing to 20k..to chase a 190 Dorka-Lghey&..or Runstang for another 50 miles..
And Yes ..I dotn liek flying more then 5 miles for a fight?..Is that so gamey...soem of you are such no skill dweebs hak pukes rainbows
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Awww BGB I gotta say I miss ya Bud. Glad your posting more brings a smile and a tear to my eye to see you and Lazs posting again.:D
BTW - How's, where's Urb been I haven't seen him on in eons. Tell him and the rest of the guys I said hello!!!
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U are saying that u like the strategist from the congo line to killl em .
in other word u depend also on other typos.
this means when only furball it's getting dull too.
btw
don't place me in any category i have all moods.
i'm not a furballer, nor a strategist.
i just fly alone
sometimes i'm timid sometimes i play it agressive.
i can do both np
i can't help u cannot make up ur SA
:aok
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
What these guys have asked for is not so difficult as redesigning an entire arena, just a small area out of the way where they can indulge in the type of fighting they want, and yet still be part of the community in the MA.
And your laughing at me? This time, they are exactly asking for redesigning an entire arena. They are asking for UNKILLABLE fields in a private / secluded corner of the map. That would mean revising every existing map and adding a design criteria to every new map. That means adding a new object type for the FHs at that field so that that obejct type can be set to indestructable.
And it is you that is missing the point here. Every thing being asked for is requesting that they be able to be SEPERATED from the other parts of the AH community, not interacting with it. These guys don't want to talk to the "bore and zoomers" or the "toolshed killers" or the "strat milkers", they just want to play with each other in their own little corner where no one who plays differently than them can bother them.
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
When they get their fill of furballing in the corner, they can hop back over to another base and rejoin the ongoing war without having to change arenas.
Hmm.. again asking for the current arena to be modified when the other arena, the DA is ready for the furball already.
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
What I'm really curious about is why you have to assume that what is already in place is good enough? Every negative response to these types of threads is "GO TO THE DA". Obviously the DA is lacking in something or it would be more utilised as an alternative.
Fact is, it was never intended to be an alternative to the MA or the CT, it was designed for a purpose and it fills that purpose just as the SEA fills its purpose.
Yeah, it's lacking score and rank, as I have already stated previously in this thread.
Why do you assume the purpose of the DA is for 1-v-1 fights? Do we really need the 12+ fields for that? A 1-v-1 fight is easily accomplished in H2H. The DA is plenty big enough to support a furball environment.
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
No one has made any suggestions that would negatively impact YOUR style of gameplay, or wants to take anything away from you. And why shouldnt they have opinions on things that would make the game more enjoyable to them? Everyone has the right to an opinion, you included. But that doesnt mean you have to come into this thread and dump on these guys just because you dont agree with what they want.
I didn't say that this would impact my style of gameplay and it probably wouldn't take anything away from me. And 'they' can have all the opinions that 'they' want, but this repeatedly asking for something that already exists with condradictions throughout the reasoning for it opens them up for ridicule and opposing views. Also, don't think for a second that these same pro-furball activists hesitate to post their opposing opinions in threads requesting more realistic gameplay changes.
These furballers just love to slap each other on the backs (lazs, dipstick and leviathn) while they make up new names (strat-potato, fluffer, bore-and-zoomer, toolshed hunter, etc.) to call the other players in AH and make jokes about how the other players like to fly. As far as I'm concerned, they can take some flak for it.
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Let me add Greencloud and Mars into the list of furballers that like to make up names and slap each other on the back.
Nice post BGBMAW. Very articulate. I'm glad Mars was right behind you to congratulate you on your well thought out and civilized interjection into this hostile conversation.
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I doubt HT will give us "unporkable" airbases for a furball area.
...but, it might be possible to have a remote spawn, from say an airbase near the HQ, to a strip off somewhere in a corner.
The base is still capturable, but the resources for the base wouldn't be easily porked. At least no until the map is about to be reset.
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...also, the whole point of playing a game is to have fun.
If this adds more fun to the game and keeps us all together, then why not?
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midnight you are missing the point entirely... the way the arena is now you have everything your way... your style... as you say you can come in at 15k in a mustang and pick off people trying to enjopy other forms of gameplay.... you can do it at no risk to yourself and you don't have to spend any time developing any skills.... siply make sure that "mustang" is selected... you probly don't even have views set for any other plane.
it is about choice... most furballers would spend a lot of time in the furball area but they would also spend time in the other areas when something fun was going on.... heck... we might even grab a mustang on ocassion and go to 20k and force you to fight or die.
It is about community... if you want to shut out some people from the community then you are on the right track.... only cater to those you think should be in the arena but...
face it... the main arena is the community. everything else is just the extra stuff for those 2% who are really excentric or for a mild diversion for all of us from time to time.
I still don't see what you are so afraid of tho.... heck... you might feel like actually participating in some fun furballing from time to time... my idea would allow you the option.
lazs
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Originally posted by Honch
Midnight,
The biggest reason to fly in the MA, for me, is community. Even if all of the T&Bs moved to the DA for the porkless furball, it would only be half of the community. – You and I would never have had that cool encounter we had last night and I sure would miss that sort of exchange.
I agrre 100% Honch--we are in early war stuff and they are in 51D's--thier tactics were the best choice for that particular fite and I commend them for winning--------my problem is when I come back in a P38--co-alt--one of em turns and runs for a whole sector to his ack.
Why not turn and fite for the sake of "what the heck have I got to lose"
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Originally posted by Midnight
These furballers just love to slap each other on the backs (lazs, dipstick and leviathn) while they make up new names (strat-potato, fluffer, bore-and-zoomer, toolshed hunter, etc.) to call the other players in AH and make jokes about how the other players like to fly. As far as I'm concerned, they can take some flak for it.
Wrong, Oh glorious pigeonholer. I've never used those terms to describe how people fly, and I certainly don't care how someone flies on their dime.
I do find it humorous when someone posts evidence to show that they do not fly "timidly" (whatever that means) and the films show exactly the opposite. But more power to 'em.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Nothing for nothing Midnight, but take your pills man.
My post to BGB was just that a post to an old squaddy. It had nothing to do with you or anything else, other than the laugh I get out of BGBs typing skills and off color humor and obvious taunting.
The fact that you took it personally makes me think you are taking this a little too seriously.
What these guys have asked for is not so difficult as redesigning an entire arena, just a small area out of the way where they can indulge in the type of fighting they want, and yet still be part of the community in the MA. When they get their fill of furballing in the corner, they can hop back over to another base and rejoin the ongoing war without having to change arenas. The nice thing is you get to "switch gears" and change up your style of fighting every so often
I think this says it all if you can't get it then you are never going to. Yes your free to post whatever you like but you are sounding like a broken record or even worse like Bettle. :rofl
If this adds more fun to the game and keeps us all together, then why not?
BINGO!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Midnight
These furballers just love to slap each other on the backs (lazs, dipstick and leviathn) while they make up new names (strat-potato, fluffer, bore-and-zoomer, toolshed hunter, etc.) to call the other players in AH and make jokes about how the other players like to fly. As far as I'm concerned, they can take some flak for it.
You missed "strateegeerist", which originates on the 13thTAS side of the Mutual Backslappers' Society fence. :aok
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Originally posted by sax
I agrre 100% Honch--we are in early war stuff and they are in 51D's--thier tactics were the best choice for that particular fite and I commend them for winning--------my problem is when I come back in a P38--co-alt--one of em turns and runs for a whole sector to his ack.
Why not turn and fite for the sake of "what the heck have I got to lose"
Hiya Sax / Honch
It was a fun couple of fights. Sax, I had to run when you made it back to the fight because jumusta, who also came into that fight in a P-51, had just pounded on me and I knew I was 1 or 2 hits away from loosing my horizontal stabs. There was a very good chance that turning again (with you and Justmusta both at 1000 yards) would give you a chance for a snapshot and the fight would have been over. I would have turned to fight if I got some seperation before reaching home field. I was actually suprised to find out that it was you in the P-38, considering how things ended.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Wrong, Oh glorious pigeonholer. I've never used those terms to describe how people fly, and I certainly don't care how someone flies on their dime.
I do find it humorous when someone posts evidence to show that they do not fly "timidly" (whatever that means) and the films show exactly the opposite. But more power to 'em.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Perhaps you haven't used those particular names before, but look a few posts back at what was posted...
Originally posted by lazs2
The bore and zoom guys like midnight depend on the furballers. They need us because if we left they would have to fight each other and they know how boring that would be. they depend on being higher than everyone else and untouchable.
followed by
Originally posted by Dipstick
Do ya think?.
followed by
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
hehe Tango actually gets close to 600mph on a couple of passes in that film. That's funny stuff.
There specifically your each slapping each other on the back with a chuckle chuckle thrown in.
You, like certain others, seem to like to classify anyone not flying to your liking as flying "timidly", like your way is so much more aggresive or requires the player to have bigger balls than everyone else.
To me, your self-gratifying, insult tossing, we're the non-timid flyers, little band of BBS friends are just plain annoying.
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Hehehe, I think you are just about as off as the gore-hounds that have to slow down and look at bad traffic accidents. You say the material in the thread upsets and/or annoys you, you claim most of the posters in the thread annoy you, yet you just cant stay away.
Come to our side Midnight. Come be a furballer, leave the cares and worries about your K/D ratio and perkies behind. Come take stupid chances with your unlimited lives and try for nearly impossible snapshots. Come fly your plane in a series of stalls that leave you dizzy. Come see how much damage one plane can take before it falls apart from MG's. More important, just come have fun. Have you ever tried to up from a capped base on purpose? Tried to gun the vulchers as you are rolling down the runway? Tried to taxi through hangers to make them crash? Tried to grab enough alt in a heavy Jug to drop a bomb at the end of the runway on a FP, and blow yourself up? Its a blast! Hehe. Blast. Hehehe.
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Toolshed hunter?
Why did this make me laugh out loud at work... WHY!!???
I think you are virtually all virtually wrong and virtually no one can virtually match my virtual style of virtual play... virtually no one!!
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Originally posted by lazs2
midnight you are missing the point entirely... the way the arena is now you have everything your way... your style... as you say you can come in at 15k in a mustang and pick off people trying to enjopy other forms of gameplay.... you can do it at no risk to yourself and you don't have to spend any time developing any skills.... siply make sure that "mustang" is selected... you probly don't even have views set for any other plane.
I wouldn't say the arena is anywhere near everything my way, but I make do with what it is without having to keep whining about a special area just for me.
No skills required... that's right, it doesn't take any skill at all to fly a P-51 against superior numbers and be able to maintain E and position while still getting kills on other aircraft that can turn around to HO you in the time it takes for you to close on them from 2,000 yards.
I wish it was so simple that they would just keep flying in a straight line at all times that I was about to shoot at them. Then I could leave it on auto-pilot and eat dinner while I got my kills.
Originally posted by lazs2
it is about choice... most furballers would spend a lot of time in the furball area but they would also spend time in the other areas when something fun was going on.... heck... we might even grab a mustang on ocassion and go to 20k and force you to fight or die.
Some might, some do, I still get my kills. I can fight at 20K just as well as I do at 5K.
Originally posted by lazs2
I still don't see what you are so afraid of tho.... heck... you might feel like actually participating in some fun furballing from time to time... my idea would allow you the option.
Who siad I was afraid? And you seem to forget, I've already got the option.
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I like the threat of a B&Zer hovering above a furball. It makes me feel like James Bond knife-fighting a villain while a bunch of lasers are going off all around the room. Sometimes you have to give up a guns solution to avoid getting cherry-picked. Exhilarating, IMO.
Killing the FHs at one of the furball bases kinda irks me tho. Its not always easy to find a fight on the map that is “fun” by my standards and when one gets stomped out it can be frustrating.
I like lazs idea of a furball island. One that is semi-isolated with no strategic value I don’t think the fields should be undamageable though. Hopefully if they had no strategic value in capturing, it may keep a buff driver from making a long trip to pork it. No ord should be available. Oh, and make the fields on little 2K hills so you automatically have alt going into the deck brawl. And - even tho personally I’d like to see an ENY cap on the fighters available there, I don’t think it would be fair to everyone.
Just to get back on topic here!
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Originally posted by Midnight
There specifically your each slapping each other on the back with a chuckle chuckle thrown in.
[/b]
Wrong as usual. Your problem, Midnight, is reading into things too much. Stop being so touchy. Your other problem is assuming that Lazs, Dipstick, and I represent some unified "furballer" front when in fact I tend to disagree with them as much as I agree with them about Aces High.
But don't let such specifics ruin a good victimization rant.
You, like certain others, seem to like to classify anyone not flying to your liking as flying "timidly", like your way is so much more aggresive or requires the player to have bigger balls than everyone else.
[/b]
Nope. I advocate aggressive flying, and I've defined aggressiveness in other threads. At no point that I recall, however, have I viciously or consistently attacked those who fly differently or in a non-aggressive manner. The film brought a chuckle from me because Tango posted it as evidence that his squad did not fly "timidly" or at least flew into poor odds. The fact that he did so with a 5k alt advantage and a plane going three times faster than those he attacked was not lost on me given the context.
To me, your self-gratifying, insult tossing, we're the non-timid flyers, little band of BBS friends are just plain annoying.
Why do you care what lazs et al. have to say? You clearly care too much for his opinion if what he says somehow annoys you. Why not ignore it?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Who siad I was afraid? And you seem to forget, I've already got the option.
We'll if you furballed then you would realise there are very few decent, real, furballs to be found.
Thankfully well thought out maps such as Festers have helped allieviate some of the problems and they are not as non existent as they were, but they are by no means something you can find at any time.
Where as, and I think the point is, that at any time anyone can...take off at a clear field, climb to around 15K and get near an enemy field that is launching multiple aircraft trying to go an attack a friendly field. Then I like to use E tactics to fight them as long as my ammo, fuel or advantage remains. Once I run out of any of the three, I get the heck out of there.
Midnight I can't think of many groups that fly this style and do it as well as your squad. Personally I hate running into you guys cause the action is slow, methodical and surgical. Once you guys arrive above there is not point trying to climb up to you. The only option is to up from another base climb to 15k and hope to get there before you guys lost one of your advantages and got the heck out of there.
So this is the way you fly, and except for the ENY limiter you are never abated from flying that way, where as more often then not I don't have a choice but to fly this way because there are no decent furballs to be had, so all that is left is to pack some ord and bomb or climb to the hills and set up above some enemy base diving on guys trying to climb out.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
[/b]
Nope. I advocate aggressive flying, and I've defined aggressiveness in other threads. At no point that I recall, however, have I viciously or consistently attacked those who fly differently or in a non-aggressive manner. The film brought a chuckle from me because Tango posted it as evidence that his squad did not fly "timidly" or at least flew into poor odds. The fact that he did so with a 5k alt advantage and a plane going three times faster than those he attacked was not lost on me given the context.
-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]
You have to be impressed by his ammo conservation though. He would have made it home with nearly a full counter, that's not easy after watching people fight for 15 minutes like that. The temptation to get in and shoot something can become overpowering.
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Originally posted by:Leviathn
Your other problem is assuming that Lazs, Dipstick, and I represent some unified "furballer" front when in fact I tend to disagree with them as much as I agree with them about Aces High.
Thats it your Furballer charter has been revoked, turn in your pin and step away from the spitV:D
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Originally posted by beet1e
You missed "strateegeerist", which originates on the 13thTAS side of the Mutual Backslappers' Society fence. :aok
Wondering how long it would take for yu to bring that up beatle , but since yu did----probebly some of the best parts of AH used to be Squad rivalries.
Ask any player that has belonged to an older Squad from AH and they most likely will tell yu that knowing another enemy name brand squad was in the area brought up the immersion factor about 10 notches--thus the reason for "The Back Slapping Society"---appreciation for making the nite a lot more fun.
Used to be able to know what an icon--icons was bringing and it generated anticipation.
51's--412 or TAS
Spitty's--Levi--Slappy ect
FM2's--F6F's--Yak--BK's
109-190's--Assasins
Little of everything in formation--AK's
Lots of everything--MAW:)
Now a days it's all about #'s not names and thats to bad cause even tho it's still the best flite game to be had--it deffinately doesn't have the same character.
And that folks is why players like lazs--Hooligan--Drex--WldThing--Apache--my own squaddies--Rude-Beemer-and more are taking extended breaks---they wanna fite talent not talents.
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Originally posted by mars01
It had nothing to do with you or anything else, other than the laugh I get out of BGBs typing skills and off color humor and obvious taunting.
Sorry Mars but using the words "BGBs" and "typing skills" in the same sentence is STRICTLY PROHIBITED! :lol
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Originally posted by Midnight
To me, you are just plain annoying.
Guess our job is done here, move along....
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Originally posted by DipStick
Do ya think?
Flying Timid 101 (http://members.cox.net/ah_dipstick/film39.ahf)
I enjoyed the film. The jest can be surmised in the first few minutes tho I watched it in it's entirety. What I enjoyed about it is it's the first film I've seen with a peek into a quasi military squad's typical sortie after seven years of flying online.
It's obvious that the goal of the squad is to work together as a team and to minimize the risk by doing so. Constant communication and updates by the pilot on "cap" in the situation. Targets were chosen to promote this and communication is used to minimize risks. They appear very good at it.
The film was a good demonstration of what the squad is all about. Many squads are no doubt formed on a similar basis. It's business. Clues are on the recruitment page of the website. And the COMPLETE lack of idle chatter in the film.
Gravitating towards a military style squad would depend on ones competitiveness, personallity type and to a certain point a persons real life envirement.
In my case, I'm a type "b". I'm in a high stress job, so the last thing I want to do is come home, "worry" about my score, if I'm doing "well", or "How I'm precieved" in this game. I play for the fights, the laughs and the release. I want to have fun, without the stress. I've got more than enough stress as it is.
So..
You go !! But when I log on I wanna talk to squadies about kids, grandkids, cooking, shooting etc.
Don't take it wrong, I have NOTHING to prove here.
Having a place to fight with like minded individuals ala' furball Island or the Island in the center of OZ is what I would enjoy.
And after watching the film there's not a reason on earth you couldn't come over and do your squadie thing there. We're easy, will stay low and fight anybody.
How else do you get nose prints on the moniter ??
BTW I would suggest a tour in the weeds. You don't have to look at your score. The tempo is a bit quicker and the nose prints come off with windex.
Who knows, you might like it.
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Sax - interesting post -
Believe it or not, I was able to relate to a lot of what you said, although my glory days were with Brand-W, c2000. In my experience, the camaraderie in that game was greater, possibly because of greater intimacy owing to the smaller number of people. At $2/hour, the membership was somewhat selective, and not the rush of bums on seats who can afford $14.95/month. People went out of their way to help the noobs, ie. none of this Try Alt+F4 crap we get here, which might have been funny once, had it not gone on to become part of the unofficial initiation rites. Trainers in WB got their game time free of charge, therefore many people wanted to become trainers (both for the kudos and to avoid those three digit $$$ monthly bills) and worked hard to elevate their skills in order to qualify. With so many people working the self improver route, the gameplay standard in WB was considerably higher than it is here. But such a program would not work here, where the savings would only amount to $14.95/month. Unfortunately, the pricing structure means that we will never get what you or I would consider to be the "ideal" gameplay; we will always get the gameplay model that generates the most AH accounts.
In AH, I realised I was in a flying zoo the moment I cleared a guy's 6, only to find a N1K on my own 6, with none of the ten "friendlies" around me offering a 6 call or giving me any assistance of any kind! To top it off, when I said on vicinity channel that things might be better if we worked as a team more, the very guy whose life I'd just saved accused me of having an attitude problem. :eek: And that was the defining moment when I knew that I was playing "Every-man-for-himself High"
The lack of an RPS is supposed to mean "more choices", but what it means in effect is always coming up against the same 3-4 plane types over and over and over again, often being used as crutchplanes to obviate the need to learn to fly a lesser plane well.
People laughed when I said we were going to need more structure in the game in order to hold our interest...... Now a days it's all about #'s not names and thats to bad cause even tho it's still the best flite game to be had--it deffinately doesn't have the same character.
And that folks is why players like lazs--Hooligan--Drex--WldThing--Apache--my own squaddies--Rude-Beemer-and more are taking extended breaks---they wanna fite talent not talents.
......they're not laughing now.
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I don't know... it got a chuckle out of me... Are yu seriously saying that anyone in this thread is advocating an RPS or axis vs allied in any way? That game that you are getting all teary eyed about was ruined by that kind of thinking...
we all played there and we all left because of the rps and allied vs axis...
Look at the ct... it is what you are wanting and it is deserted most of the time.... 90% of the time it is (or was) a lopsided plane set with most players gallantly gravitating to the side with the best planes. I don't want an MA like that.
nopoop is right as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a fighter pilot nor do I pretend to be... I like to fly simulated WWII planes against each other for the challenge of it and to see how different styles of planes and ord do against each other. I want to talk about the kidws or the house or cars or guns or something with guys I like when there is a break in the action... even considering doing what those mustang guys do would embarass me.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I don't know... it got a chuckle out of me... Are yu seriously saying that anyone in this thread is advocating an RPS or axis vs allied in any way? That game that you are getting all teary eyed about was ruined by that kind of thinking...
we all played there and we all left because of the rps and allied vs axis...
I partly agree with what you're trying to say, but you needed to go a little further. By the way, Apache and Rude's names we mentioned in Sax's post, and they'd both like to see an RPS.
As to why RPS/Axis v Allied went wrong in WB, it need not have happened. The RPS was fine in the days before axis v. allied. That's because all four sides had the exact same range of planes to choose from at all times, so no side had an advantage over any other in terms of plane choice.
However, in the axis v. allied WW2A, the RPS was flawed because not all aircraft that flew in WW2 were modelled in WB. So the RPS had to fudge and compromise in order to try to balance the sides. And *THAT* is what did not work. The RPS concept would have worked better if iEN could have been persuaded to act upon my suggestion of locking the sides to prevent sideswitching to the side that had the best planes on any given day. In the event, they increased the minimum interval between side switches from 15 mins. to 60 mins. Too little, too late.
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I think the main reason people have a problem with the "late war uber rides" is because since they are fast, nobody bothers to learn how to fight in them.
It is a pain in the bellybutton if you are in a P-40 (for instance) and some La-7 just bore n zooms timidly when he could take advantage of the fact that his plane also turns better and actually mix it up. Furthermore, even if he is unable to "mix it up" successfully, he can take advantage of the tremendous acceleration and top speed difference to leave the fight if it goes bad at any time.
But most people fly the La-7 because it is fast, so they never bother to actually learn how to fight in the plane.. just make a couple timid passes and orbit while calling for friendlies, or run for some ack.
Same goes for the P-fiftyrun.. the Dorun.. the run09.. etc. You can basically get quite aggressive in those planes and STILL leave at any time because they have an acceleration and top speed advantage over the rest of the planeset. But since people don't feel like taking the time to actually learn how to fight, they'd rather cherry-pick a 1v4 (like the 4 needed help) or make timid passes if they happen to get caught in some disadvantageous situation (only 2-3 on 1.. co-alt, etc).
I just get frustrated knowing that plane X out-everythings whatever plane I'm in, wishing the timid bore n zoomer would grow some damn balls and mix it up.
Being aggressive doesn't mean "Spit V style yank and bank" fighting, in my opinion. It simply means using your planes capabilities to the fullest extent in an effort to kill your opponent. Obviously a 190A-8 isn't going to out-turn a Spit V, but that doesn't mean you can't take whatever energy advantage you started with and try to convert it to a lethal firing position. If you don't get one, THEN leave. Don't just make one timid pass and go "Oh, the lamer won't stop turning, what a puss" and head for the nearest ack.
That kind of flying is simply boring.
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Well, I've only been here for a month and this horse has been beaten repeatedly. Fact is no one is going to change anyones mind. One thing is that there is a lot of "it's my money and I'll do what I want and don't you suggest anything that may prevent that" attitude in here. Not saying that's wrong just saying it prevents a lot of creative things that would make the MA more fun IMO.
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what a frikn waste of typing..why do you gusy type so much..lolol
Mars..poor old urb got cut off when AH2 came around..his comp couldnt keep up..Hes got his own business ..making commercials for TV...
He had bougth a G4..then just a G5 recently..and with all the video editing equipment..hes been spending alot of money latley..and he just got married...lolol..he will be back soon though..He also says he misses flying with all of you...
I love to furball.
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Originally posted by lazs2
we all played there and we all left because of the rps and allied vs axis...
Look at the ct... it is what you are wanting and it is deserted most of the time.... 90% of the time it is (or was) a lopsided plane set with most players gallantly gravitating to the side with the best planes. I don't want an MA like that.
I don't disagree that the CT is deserted at times, but I don't think that is because of limited plane set and/or axis v. allied. Think back to WB. The WW2A came along - axis v. allied, but the four country MA was still there. Indeed, there were several player initiatives by guys like thrax= to get people to migrate back to the MA. But it never happened. Once an arena has become established as "the place where most people go", it's very difficult to change that pattern, without physically locking one of the arenas to force people to use another.
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what a frikn waste of typing..why do you gusy type so much..lolol
Cause ... unlike you ... we CAN type ... :D
Tell Mr. "Silky Smooth" Urbacus to get his arse back in here ... I miss wingin' with him.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I don't disagree that the CT is deserted at times, but I don't think that is because of limited plane set and/or axis v. allied. Think back to WB. The WW2A came along - axis v. allied, but the four country MA was still there. Indeed, there were several player initiatives by guys like thrax= to get people to migrate back to the MA. But it never happened. Once an arena has become established as "the place where most people go", it's very difficult to change that pattern, without physically locking one of the arenas to force people to use another.
The people that are left in WB are the orginal 10 % of the player base that wanted that type of permanent set-up.
The other 90% left. (Many of them came here)
So effectively, in making a vocal 10% of the player base happy, they alienated 90% of their customer base. A fairly valuable lesson I would think.
This post, from a long teerm WB player (not me) is from WB in regard to axis/allies permanent split, and the divisiveness it can cause . There are elements of this you notice in the CT.
-----------------------------------------------
The "rest of us" don't know what's good (or in this case bad) for you. The majority of players may prefer an Axis/Allied split, but that does NOT mean it is healthy for the community or the game as a whole.
People are taking sides (axis/allied) and there is real hate being created over politics and events from a war that ended almost 60 years ago. THAT IS THE CANCER ON THE COMMUNITY!!
Adding new planes only makes it worse.
Adjusting FMs only makes it worse.
Lowering the price and enticing old players back only makes it worse.
Not one thing done in the past 3+ years has mitigated or slowed the increasing levels of hate and animosity between the Axis/Allied camps in WBs. It's tearing the community apart!
I can't state it any clearer than I already have, but I will try.
The community is simply not mature enough collectively to handle the Axis/Allied split. Today it's the Ki-44. Go back to day 1 of the WWIIA and 90% or more of all of the *****ing on AGW and ch100 since then is Axis/Allied related. I challenge you to prove me wrong.
With color-wars we had the arena filled with Spits/F6Fs/etc, but what you and many others fail to realize is that "we" (the community) were the ones flying the damn things!.....
Get it?...Is is sinking in yet?.......
When given the oppurtunity to do the right thing, "we" (the community) never do!! "We" gravitate to the uber-plane of the day. "We" allow 60 year old politics and predjudices to seep into our gameplay. "We" refuse to balance numbers. "We" vultch, gang-bang, conga-line bombers, exploit ToT, exploit GVs, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
We the players are our own worst enemies, because "we" (the community) are selfish. IEN has to step forward and make the hard decisions. The players have never and will never police themselves. The only way that the community will heal the rift is if IEN forces the two factions (Axis/Allied) to intermingle. It's the only possible way to wash away all of the filth and bagage that has collected over the past few years.
I simply don't understand how you can ignore the problems CRUTCH. You only have to read AGW to see the festering disease created by the Axis/Allied split that is killing the community. Sure a lot of people still play WBs (or at least keep an account open), but can you really say that the community is still alive and intact?
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I'm done worrying about these generalized timid flyer definitions being pasted on me and my squad (the 412th FS) by you turn-ball players with poor skills.
Quick comparisons of the stats reveal that although your K/T numbers are average, your hit percentages are mostly below 7.5% exception Leviathn with 18.905% and as low as 3.7% for one of you I looked up.
Basically, that tells me you guys spend a lot of time firing into open air wishing you knew some better BFMs to gain position on your intended targets.
OTOH, I spend at least 10 minutes every flight grabbing altitude and flying well over 20 virtual miles to get to the fight. Then I spend (when lucky enough to RTB) at least another 5 minutes flying home. Even through all of that, I manage to get an average (all tours this year) K/T of 7.91 and H% of 11.4%
Basically, that tells me that when I get to the fight, I am fighting just as much as you and hitting my targets more effectively than you. Timid I am not. Fast, Agressive and Hard-hitting - you better believe it.
comparisons obtained by AH score pages. Some players used in making this comparision - BGBMAW, DipStick, Lazs, Mars01, Leviathn, Redd, Nopoop.
I rest my case. you turn-ballers will just have to keep a look out for high Mustangs.
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Now this makes all the sense in the world midnight. If your worried about what anyone thinks you are in trouble. Fly for yourself and your buds.
First problem you are having - score doesn't mean a thing, judging anyone bassed on score only, just allows you to make ignorant assumptions.
Second problem - Fighter hit percentage is also a stupid number to base anything on. Point in case - If you are in fighter mode, which I am most of the time, and you shoot at the ack, gvs or anything other than a fighter, which I do most of the time, your hit percentage goes way down.
Third, if you are wondering how good any of us are all you have to do is ask us to the DA.
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Midnight and all the folks I know from his squad don't really meet my definition of timid. Granted I don't watch films that people post here... but then again most people will take one particular film and go "THERE! THERE! TIMID!! SEE, SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!!!"... you can't really make any general assumptions based on one incident.
I don't recall every single fight I've had with them, but typically I'll run into 1 or 2 that are either co-alt or slightly higher than me and get into a fairly decent fight. Just because they don't hit autolevel and let you kill them doesn't make them timid... they are actually trying to kill you. Timid people just kind of fly around ineffectually waving their purses.
It is possible to be a Boom n Zoomer and still be aggressive. Bore n Zoom is my phrase for the clueless tools that fly around in the runstangs, el gays, and run90/09's and lack any kind of balls whatsoever.
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Originally posted by Midnight
Quick comparisons of the stats reveal that although your K/T numbers are average, your hit percentages are mostly below 7.5% exception Leviathn with 18.905% and as low as 3.7% for one of you I looked up.
Basically, that tells me you guys spend a lot of time firing into open air wishing you knew some better BFMs to gain position on your intended targets.
Actually, the reality is quite the reverse, except for Levi, who we know is just a freak :D
When you are furballing in a slower more early war ride, most of the guys you are shooting at are pulling separation as you fire, making it much more difficult to get a high hit % unless you get a deflection shot just off your nose. If you are BnZing in a 51, you most of the time will be bearing down on your prey at high speed with a quick rate of closure, firing at inside of 250 yards and have a much easier solution for a kill shot. That explains the difference in the hit %. It's not that these guys shoot worse necessarily, it's the shots that they take are usually much harder to land hits with, and coincidentally their hit %'s might be a little lower than a BnZ pilot.
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Midnight and all the folks I know from his squad don't really meet my definition of timid.
I agree Urchin. I have met SkatSr and SkatJr in the DA they are both really good sticks.
I have met the 412 in the MA a couple of times and like I said above; they fly high, keep their advantage well, they work well together and get the job done. Is it as fast paced as dodgeing 5 cons on the deck with little advantage over them and trying to get a shot on one. Personally I don't think so, but that is merely my opinion. If they are having fun that is all that counts. Why Midnight is in here pissing on everyone are his own reasons. It's not garneshing any deeper respect for him and his squad tho, that is for sure.
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Mars..poor old urb got cut off when AH2 came around..his comp couldnt keep up..Hes got his own business ..making commercials for TV...
Nice!!!! He's gotta be siked about that!
Tell him all that money he's making, making commercials, to buy a smaller bag next week :D and use the rest to buy a computer.
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Originally posted by Redd
The people that are left in WB are the orginal 10 % of the player base that wanted that type of permanent set-up.
The other 90% left. (Many of them came here)
So effectively, in making a vocal 10% of the player base happy, they alienated 90% of their customer base. A fairly valuable lesson I would think.
Redd, there was more to it than that. There were other issues. I will list some of them here. - The iEN server connections were bloody awful, ever since the game relocated from TX to NC. And all iEN would ever say was "it's not our responsibility".
- AH appeared on the scene, and was flat rate from Day1. That caused an exodus from WB, where folks were still paying $2/hour.
- The timing of AH release could not have been worse for iEN, who were struggling to raise cash to finish development of WB3. But they were forced to go flat rate to compete with AH, and all those three digit $$$ accounts suddenly realised no more than $24.95/month.
- WB3 sucked, and many players spent months trying to get it to work.
- iEN finances were in S*** Creek, and many thought the company would fold...
- The download for WB3 was 95MB, compared with (at that time) 24MB for AH. Many (including myself) were still on dialup modem with ISP accounts limited to 2 hrs connect time. No way to download 95MB in 2 hrs. And no help from iEN about how to do it. (download agents)
So one evening, I put myself in the place of a nascent flightsim noob, and downloaded AH. I could do that within the 2 hours. Far from it taking me months to get it running, I was up and away in less than half an hour. The settings, everything - was so much easier in AH. And the connects were golden! :cool:
And I reflected on this, and how iEN had told me that it was MY problem that my connect to them sucked. Once it sank in that I'd been duped for a couple of years, I pulled the plug on WB without looking back.
Much more to the issue than axis/allied/RPS.
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Originally posted by mars01
Why Midnight is in here pissing on everyone are his own reasons
I agree. I thought my comments were well thought out and lended some credence to the discussion of the film.
I don't remember capping on anyone.
But you didn't hurt my feelings.
So there..
Good synopsis of the WB fiasco Redd. Dead on.
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lolol slapshot..mars ;)
i forgot..how urb had his check 6 wav changed to.."You are so Sillkky Smooth"
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Originally posted by Stang
Actually, the reality is quite the reverse, except for Levi, who we know is just a freak :D
When you are furballing in a slower more early war ride, most of the guys you are shooting at are pulling separation as you fire, making it much more difficult to get a high hit % unless you get a deflection shot just off your nose. If you are BnZing in a 51, you most of the time will be bearing down on your prey at high speed with a quick rate of closure, firing at inside of 250 yards and have a much easier solution for a kill shot. That explains the difference in the hit %. It's not that these guys shoot worse necessarily, it's the shots that they take are usually much harder to land hits with, and coincidentally their hit %'s might be a little lower than a BnZ pilot.
The best way to get a high gunnery % is cherry-picking and buff-killing .
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Originally posted by Redd
Well we've just given the kiwi's a bit of a spanking (finished today), and we're limbering up for pakistan ( think they arrive this week). One-dayers start soon.
Well fly down here beet - it's only 24 hours or so on a plane. Come to the Boxing Day Test at the MCG. :)
And nicely done too. (from a Kiwi)
Always enjoy top class teams dismantling half assed unmotivated ones.
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btw...all u whorz who think u gto skills..bring it to the http://www.flightladder.com
only true way to prove what u got
cause purse swingers are just that...............PURSE SWINGERS!!!!!!!!
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:lol
I followed this thread all the way to the end, only to find a full blown cross section of the AH Community. Ya know, most of us pay for this, and IMHO its good clean cheap fun unless you count the expensive machine it takes to really enjoy it. I fly in just about every arena, when it suits me, mostly in the MA cause there's lots of action, prefer the CT, but there is rarely enough action, duel when a duel sounds fun, train every damn day.
But in keeping with the original post, it would be nice to have a fighter town set up someplace, where a campaign score could be checked and land grabbing wasn't the main objective. I remember when Krusher used to host a weekly (loosely organized) fighter town event and those were a HOOT :aok
editted for spelling
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stang... as redd says.. the best way to get a high hit percentage is to catch people on the runway or assleep or to shoot at fluffs.
I am by no means a good shot but if I want to be bored to death I can make my hit percentage up in the 20's... I prefer to take high deflection shots and snap shots in furballs while my SA is strained to the limit...
It is sorta like... do you find being a race car driver or a librarian a more satisfying job? is the librarian an inherantly safer person because he has a better safety record at work?
lazs
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YES!!! I get post 100!! Now if I only had something to contribute. Ah well, congrats Lazs, your thread made 100 posts! :D
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I'm just glad were on a new page . I was getting tired of seeing Beetle's ERROR graphic.
Congrats on page 3 Lazs!
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STILL can't play Dipstick's film :(
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/aherror.jpg)
Honch - I'll delete this, if you give me a shrubbery. Just a simple one, not too expensive. ;)
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bettle,
that film is the same film tango posted in the furballers vs timid flyers thread
incase you want to dl and watch it
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A shrubbery, what about a herring, herrings are nice. LOLH
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Dam You Beetle!!! Now we're gunna have to run this thread another page!
NI!
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another page? no problem.... brits have bad teeth and pee 51 guys are skilless.
lazs
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What you all don't realize about lazs is that he flys at the same speed he drives his cars.... neither one gets over 120... much.
Sure its a rut, but he deals with it.
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Well Sax turned me into a Newt!
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Originally posted by Honch
Well Sax turned me into a Newt!
And Slappy turned yu into a kill stealing dweeb.
I was never so happy as when the CV got KO'd last nite and I seen yu looking everywhere to land your ill gotten gains:)
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You should try to kill them faster!
Bah!
Any kill in a F4F is a good one. . Even if it's stolen!
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curses.... pegged by MT.
lazs
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A CV based map would be a great idea imo. If formatted with 3 carriers and numerous support ships per CV group, it would be very cool. Make carriers supplyable, or at least self healing like land bases. As for the kill joy carrier kamakazies....thats what high alt cover is for. Fly dumb, or greedy, with no high cover...you will loose your Carrier.( or at least 1 or 2 of em). Make the ports airfields also like Ozkansas map so that they could be defended, and the buff flyers could have a place to take off from. Sea battles were one of the biggest factors for victory in the war ( pacific at least) and I agree it's time to give them there due.
As allways, feel free to call me stupid, correct spelling, whine, or reply with any irrelivent remark that suits you.
AX
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Nazgul - not a bad idea. My fondest memories of AH were the F4U flights from the carrier, intercepting buffs or pushing the battle back to the field from which they came.
Spelling Mistakes
You didn't do too badly, just one or two I should point out. - supplyable - not a real word. "able to receive supplies" would be more correct, but longer of course.
- You used the word "loose" but you meant "lose". A common and infuriating mistake on the internet. Almost as bad as "I could care less" when it should be "I could not care less".
- irrelivent - I think you meant irrelevant.
- "give them there due" - "there" should have been "their".
We'll discuss the folly of using a preposition at the end of a sentence in the next lesson. :aok
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LOL....had to throw a few in there:-)
I like to think of it as Web-bonics
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furballers are not interested in resupplying anything or bombing anything or intercepting toolshed killers.
lazs
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Well, I'm bored. I think I'll get out my chess set. I'll leave the Kings in the box, and just move the other pieces around on the board for a couple of hours. Tum-te-tum...
(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_5_119.gif)
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Well, I'm bored. I think I'll get out my chess set. I'll leave the Kings in the box, and just move the other pieces around on the board for a couple of hours. Tum-te-tum...
LOL Beet, this statement is just showing your ignorance about furballing, but we have been there, done that so no need to turn this into a 6 page post.:D :aok
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Originally posted by mars01
LOL Beet, this statement is just showing your ignorance about furballing
Erm... it wasn't designed to demonstrate my knowledge (or lack of) furballing, but to illustrate my view of the futility of furballing.
:D:aok
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Originally posted by beet1e
Erm... it wasn't designed to demonstrate my knowledge (or lack of) furballing, but to illustrate my view of the futility of furballing.
:D:aok
Are you saying that some folks having fun is futile? Aren't we supposed to be having fun?
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"All your bases are belong to us!"
:D
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Originally posted by Furious
Are you saying that some folks having fun is futile? Aren't we supposed to be having fun?
Furious,
As I said, this was my personal point of view of furballing. Anyone is free to agree or disagree. I'm saying that I would find it to be an exercise in futility. It did not hold my interest and I would get bored very quickly. YMMV.
However, combat to capture/defend a base, or to defend a CV against attack is more interesting, in my view, because there is a purpose, an objective.
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Erm... it wasn't designed to demonstrate my knowledge (or lack of) furballing, but to illustrate my view of the futility of furballing.
Well that fact that you don't think there is more to it than moving chess pieces around and that you can't find any purpose in it, tells me that you are missing something designed to or not.
However, combat to capture/defend a base, or to defend a CV against attack is more interesting, in my view, because there is a purpose, an objective.
So honing your fighter skills is not a purpose that holds your interests? Trying to perfect and learn better wingman tactics against unsurmountable odds is not interesting? Honing your SA so you can combat unsurmountable odds is not interesting?
Maybe the difference after all this time between us beet is that I want to become better at fighter tactics and plane handling and you want to play chess.:D
Furballing has alot to it and is by no means easy to get good at. There are alot of things you have to do well before you can even survive in a real furball. Unlike dropping bombs or base capture, which you only have to get good at a small set of things.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
what a frikn waste of typing..why do you gusy type so much..lolol
Cause ... unlike you ... we CAN type ... :D
Tell Mr. "Silky Smooth" Urbacus to get his arse back in here ... I miss wingin' with him.
Ditto
I miss the UrbMeister also. :(
Hiyas Slappy!
:aok
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Mars01,
All the material being debated here is highly subjective. For example: Well that fact that you don't think there is more to it than moving chess pieces around and that you can't find any purpose in it, tells me that you are missing something designed to or not.
I accept that furballing interests you. And it's OK in (very) limited doses. But like I said, it did not hold my interest. I personally enjoy some sort of WW2 re-enactment. The RPS in WB was a good thing for me because it gave me the chance to fly a wider range of planes in a fair contest, instead of always having to deal with the same 3 planes the whole time. You tell me that I'm missing something, but in my view the furballers are missing about 70% of the whole game. In AH I flew fighters, bombers, jabo, PT boats, PNZR, FLAK, M8, delivered troops or supplies in both M3 and Goon, manned the FGs, SBs, drove the CV - all that stuff was put there by HTC. They intended for it to be used!. It was sad to see so many guys focus only on the air to air combat, and to turn their backs on the other 70% of the game. But, moving along... So honing your fighter skills is not a purpose that holds your interests? Trying to perfect and learn better wingman tactics against unsurmountable odds is not interesting? Honing your SA so you can combat unsurmountable odds is not interesting?
Did all that in WB, Mars. In 1999/2000, I had the enthusiasm that you have right now. I remember the time I found a plane I really liked - and got good in it - the F6F. I even whacked the #1 guy in it one time, even though he started in my 6 with an alt advantage. Another time, I had a P51 and Spit in my 6 at the same time, and managed to kill both! Yep, the enthusiasm was strong back then... Furballing has alot to it and is by no means easy to get good at. There are alot of things you have to do well before you can even survive in a real furball. Unlike dropping bombs or base capture, which you only have to get good at a small set of things.
Well, you have said how little I know about furballing; this quote tells me how little you know about base capture planning. I should qualify that by saying that the whole base capture strategem is porked in AH because there are so many warning signs that give the game away if attempting a surreptitious attack on a base. There's the siren, the flashing map, "base under attack" etc... so the enemy knows you're coming, and the capture (especially on the small maps where conveyor belting is viable) comes down to a numbers contest. To aim a bomb in AH using the P38, I liked to start at about 4K AGL. Not much chance of succeeding if, by the time you get there, the LA7s are waiting - at 10K.
But I think you're starting to sound like Lazs & Toad in taking the black or white view that one is either a toolshed killer or an air to air fite guy, because there are shades of grey in between. I was in a succession of jabo squads in WB, and I was good at it. Did this mean that I sucked at air to air combat? I don't think so. At the end of one tour about 5 years ago, I finished in 8th place in the fighter rankings - even though my squad was a dedicated jabo squad - we never bothered with furballing. The biggest hazards in jabo were being acked, cherrypicked, or being blown up by your own bomb - lol.
As for wingman tactics, I learned a lot from my moonlight squad, the Scanian Griffins. They had an excellent CO (-rudu-) and his wingman (-sach- - a guy from Susanville,CA) was the best wingman in the game. Yep, those were good times. We used to fly 190s.
Anyway, WB went off the boil for reasons that have already been discussed, so I came here. I do believe that AH is a more furballcentric sim than WB was, although WB did have some - ask Lazs. BTW I used to hook up with Lazs and a bunch of others - all the way back in 1998!
Now I know that you enjoy your small maps and your furballs. And I'm not trying to change your point of view. But for me, I just need something more out of a game besides chasing down Spits and LA7s every day. And I'm not interested in becoming a SpitV wonderpilot - not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it's just not for me.
Unfortunately, although AH2 has delivered better FMs, gunnery, and a few more planes, the gameplay remains lamentable. And I can't see that changing until we get TOD, so...
Toodle-Pip
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Well beet your skills peaked and you got bored flying fighters in a fighter sim, sounds like you did the right thing in quiting.
Just because you lost the spirit and the drive doesn't mean the rest of us are wrong or should stop too. Although comments like the one below lead me to think you believe we are.
"Well, I'm bored. I think I'll get out my chess set. I'll leave the Kings in the box, and just move the other pieces around on the board for a couple of hours. Tum-te-tum... "
As long as there are other people at the other end of the controls willing to fight I will always enjoy fighting them. It's when I can't fight them due to the map, thier timidness, strat model, or whatever that I get frustrated. Nothing worse getting a few spare moments to fly and not being able to find decent fights only to log in disgust and want for a better game.
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yep mars... I guess you could look at it like this... if there were no killshoote then the "strat" for the furballers would be that the furballers at a good fight would shoot down their own fluffs and suicide jabos.
Each side could kill their own people who came to ruin the fite.
There would be no difference in skill level or complexity of "strat" in doing this or in suicide bombing a cv or FH's out in the middle of no where. in fact... it would make more sense... you would at least be attempting to accomplish something besides ruining some one elses fun.
Granted... the whole idea of the game is winners and losers but then what is the point of killshooter? if the idea of the game is to make everyone as misserable as possible then why have killshooter?
sure... some would abuse it and ruin legitimate strat but... so what? it is a big map and the strat guys could just go and find another field to capture. See what I mean?
lazs
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I like the idea, but here is why I think it'll never happen.
It would lead to the absolute stagnation of what passes for "gameplay", and possibly fracture the "community" Think about it.. there are really only two "camps" of people that play this game.
There is the camp that plays this game to fight other people, be it "turn fighting" or "boom and zoom" or whatever. Doesn't really matter what they fly, they are playing the game to shoot down other people.
The other camp plays this game to reset the map. There are subdivisions in this camp, you have the diehard ones that really enjoy battling buildings, and then you have the ones that tag along because they aren't much good at fighting and want to feel like they had some sort of impact. The folks you see flying around in gigantic herds going to undefended bases belong in this camp.
There really aren't to many people that play this game solely with the object of taking bases. The vast majority of the herd is made up of people that dont really know how to fight, don't really want to learn, but still want to "win" occasionally. Taking undefended field after undefended field won't do much for these people, they want to enjoy the "thrill of the kill" every so often, even if they have to compete with 15 other guys to kill the one vulchee that keeps upping.
So who needs who more? The people that want to kill other people or the people that play to reset the map? In my opinion, the two groups don't really need each other at all. However, that gigantic herd of newbs (for lack of a better word) that make up the vast majority of the "base takers" (as opposed to the folks who will try to take a base with 5-6 guys, those are my "dedicated" guys), need the 1st group a lot more than the 1st group needs them.
Most people who want to kill other people log in, look for a fight (preferably somewhat even, maybe a red bar that is slightly larger than a green bar), and then settle for practically anything. If this means flying into a horde of lemmings intent on "taking a base" (read: landing 2 kills) then that is what they'll do.
So, what would happen if there was a place in the MA that was built just for the 1st group?
Well, in my opinion, the people who like to fight would probably fly pretty much exclusively there. The reason is simple, they would simply have more fun there. So where would that leave the rest of the arena?
Numbers-wise there probably wouldn't be much of an effect. You might have 30 people out of 500 or so that would choose to fly in the "fighter-town".
The real effect, in my opinion, would be on the horde. There wouldn't BE a bored person upping over and over to die at the hands of 10 or 15 people desperate to get one kill this sortie. And once those people aren't getting any kills (thus recognition from their peers), they'd get bored and stop playing. That group makes up ~90% of the MA. If they start getting bored and stop playing, HTC stands to lose a lot of money. So, there will never be a fighter town, at least not until this game really starts in on the end of its life cycle.
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The real effect, in my opinion, would be on the horde. There wouldn't BE a bored person upping over and over to die at the hands of 10 or 15 people desperate to get one kill this sortie. And once those people aren't getting any kills (thus recognition from their peers), they'd get bored and stop playing. That group makes up ~90% of the MA. If they start getting bored and stop playing, HTC stands to lose a lot of money. So, there will never be a fighter town, at least not until this game really starts in on the end of its life cycle.
Urchin ... I followed you all the way to here.
Are you saying that the "bored person" is the furballer and for a lack of anything better to do, they try to up at a vulched or semi-vulched field ?
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Yes.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Are you saying that the "bored person" is the furballer and for a lack of anything better to do, they try to up at a vulched or semi-vulched field ?
I'll spin that Slap. For myself, if "I REALLY feel like flying" and there isn't squat on the map as far as real fight. Instead of logging which I usually do, I'll out of a base being attacked or fly towards a lopsided dar bar knowing it's futile just to get some action.
Sometimes I surprise myself.
On a whole, I agree with Urchin's take.
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Originally posted by nopoop
I'll spin that Slap. For myself, if "I REALLY feel like flying" and there isn't squat on the map as far as real fight. Instead of logging which I usually do, I'll out of a base being attacked or fly towards a lopsided dar bar knowing it's futile just to get some action.
Sometimes I surprise myself.
On a whole, I agree with Urchin's take.
Don't get me wrong bud ... I just wanted to make sure I understood Urchin.
I make a living out of doing what he described ... when there are no squaddies on.
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I'm not going to agree on getting a fighter town area on MA maps, but I do understand the frustrations.
There was a good fight going on equinox A17-A18. I think there was about 5 or 6 rook and bish having a fight just off the coast of the bish field. A few more rooks showed up and the fight moved closer to the field. A few rooks started vultching, even with AA still up. More rooks showed and then someone thought it a good idea to kill all the FHs while the town was still up.
OK. I figure I'll go East to A19 and fight the Bish as they come to defend A18. I go all the way to 19, kill a few more bish. All the while, there is a HORDE of rooks at A18, so I figure it's got to be captured soon, I can hang at A19 a while longer and won't need the gas to go all the way back to A17. Well, 10 minutes later, A18 is still not captured but a HORDE is still there vultching bombers trying to takeoff (dweeb defense)
Anyway, I end up having to fly all the way back to A17 on cruise power and A18 still wasn't captured.
Frustrating.... that's all. Would have been better if the fight stayed the way it was before the horde showed up.
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It's easier than adding unsinkable carriers or uncapturable fields.
Just make one spawn from each field closest to HQ spawn near eachother right in the air in an area somewhere out in the nowhere.
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LOOK AT SOME OFTHE NAMES IN THIS POST
This (the new DA) has been a good idea for a long time, lets make it the best we can.
The lake is a great place to fly while you wait for a 1v1 or group duel.
The biggest problem with the lake is the imbalance in numbers(squads).
FIXES:
- More people fly the low number country (especially the vets)
- have even more lakes - MAN LAKE (everyone for themself)
- REAL MAN LAKE (no perk rides)
- LONNER LAKE (1v1 any can join)
- BETTY LAKE (Typh only)
- Cap the lake so the sides stay close
The DA gets a constant flow of people that leave the TA too soon, so if we can teach them better game play we should in turn get better game play.
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ummmmm............ :noid
IN !
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Oh boy, necro bump!
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LOOK AT SOME OFTHE NAMES IN THIS POST
Look at the date of this post. Oh, that's right. Rules be damned, again.
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I was trying to link to it not post to it.
My point is a lot of good-great sticks thought the idea for furball lake was a good one. Since we now have one lets make the best of it.
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LOOK AT SOME OFTHE NAMES IN THIS POST
This (the new DA) has been a good idea for a long time, lets make it the best we can.
The lake is a great place to fly while you wait for a 1v1 or group duel.
The biggest problem with the lake is the imbalance in numbers(squads).
FIXES:
- More people fly the low number country (especially the vets)
- have even more lakes - MAN LAKE (everyone for themself)
- REAL MAN LAKE (no perk rides)
- LONNER LAKE (1v1 any can join)
- BETTY LAKE (Typh only)
- Cap the lake so the sides stay close
The DA gets a constant flow of people that leave the TA too soon, so if we can teach them better game play we should in turn get better game play.
The folks who fly in the lake squads want nothing to do with balanced numbers, most want nothing to do with one-on-ones. When common roster summaries are 8 bish, 5 rooks and 17 Nits, it's quite obvious that the LAST thing these guys wants are actual fights, and the concept of changing sides to even out the sides produces nothing but :confused:
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I was trying to link to it not post to it.
My point is a lot of good-great sticks thought the idea for furball lake was a good one. Since we now have one lets make the best of it.
Sure you were......... :noid
Hopefully skuzzy breaks out the ban stick on this type of bs
IN
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I was trying to link to it not post to it.
My point is a lot of good-great sticks thought the idea for furball lake was a good one. Since we now have one lets make the best of it.
Unfortunately for it to be a true DA fuball lake KS should be off and AVA or as they were called in H2H FFA.